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Prices vary by State, options selected by customer, availability and eligibility may vary. (upbeat music) Lions fans, it's time for the podcast you've been waiting for. The show where Kool-Aid runs blue. Faces turn red. And rose-colored glasses never go out of style. This is the Detroit Lions podcast. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of this shop and Brown right here on the Detroit Lions podcast. He's got fish off. I'm Russ Brown. We are back. Lions free agency, not necessarily in the books because it's pretty much the first day yesterday and today and essentially. But a lot of things happening, a lot of moving parts. We're gonna talk about all that, but before we do, Scott my man, Hala Alaria. I'm doing pretty well. How are you? We're good, we're good. Recording in the basement again this time in the office. So I'm gonna see how this one shapes up. Haven't done this yet. I already hate this light above my head. So we're gonna have to move this and figure this out, but we're gonna figure it out. So we'll keep it moving and all that good stuff, but lots to get into as just far as the general scheme of things with the Lions and how the roster is starting to shape up with free agency and all that stuff. Losing guys, you know, Kevin Zietler is gone, Carl to Davis is gone, I feed him, Alifan who is gone. They brought back a couple of their own guys, Levi Ozarique, Miles Adams. A lot of stuff on the defensive line, but really no names were bigger than these two right here. Cornerback, DJ Reed and defensive tackle Roy Lopez. Didn't really expect DJ Reed to be completely honest with you. I was not expecting a bigger cornerback name. I just wasn't, I figured if anything, they would try to get Carl to Davis back and now they would pivot to a lesser name, but maybe a smaller contract type of guy, but three years, 48 million, 36 million guaranteed for DJ Reed to me. And we haven't seen the whole structure of the deal, very similar to what they did with Cam Sutton. It was a three year, $33 million deal for Sutton when he signed a couple years back and it was 22 million guaranteed. So kind of the same structure is what I'm gonna guess. And I like that because you can get out of the deal after a year or two. So we'll see obviously what the financials look like in the coming weeks, but starting with DJ Reed, what did you think of the signing and how do you think he fits here with us in Detroit? - I mean, it's a bummer to lose Carl to Davis 'cause he was cornerback one. But I'm not even, I'm not sure that I would call DJ Reed a consolation prize. I think they're similar-ish kind of players. Maybe Davis has a little bit better ball skills than Reed does, but I think Reed's a little tighter in his coverage than Davis was. Reed is smaller, but he's got some dog in him. He's gonna hit ya. He's gonna play, he's a very physical player. I mean, I love the signing. I think that one of the things that going into free agency was the concern around if you did lose Davis and you didn't have a savvy veteran who knew who could hold up as cornerback one then you're sort of pushing a little early. You'd be pushing Terry and Arnold into that slot. And that left me feeling just to touch uncomfortable. There's a little uncertainty there. That's one of the reasons why I think the Reed signing was awesome is 'cause it allows Arnold to continue to grow. And sometimes, it's not that Arnold improved over his rookie season. If you take it in blocks, I think he struggled the first four or six weeks with how physical and how touchy he was in coverage. And he kind of figured that out to where he wasn't getting called for those things as much over the back half of the season. And I think he was a lot better. And I think everybody should be very optimistic about what he is as a player. But having him not have to ascend to the top of their depth chart as a second year player takes a little bit of pressure off. And I think Reed is one of those guys who's gonna welcome some of that pressure. I love it. I think that's a great signing. If you were gonna lose Carlton Davis, that's the kind of guy you'd be very happy about. Again, it's not a consolation prize. I think they're both like quarterback one kind of players. What do you think? What do you think of him? I like the move a lot. I think it's a really solid move for the Lions to get a player that has a similar skill set to Tyrion Arnold. And when I watch Arnold play, he's a physical guy that can run and stride with receivers. And he doesn't always get his head around 'cause he's too busy working down field, working through contact that's being given back to him by receivers. And he's not gonna withstand for that and all that. So he's gonna withstand through that contact and play and all that. But when I watch DJ Reed, it's kind of the same thing. Against Arizona, he got flagged, maybe middle of second quarter or something like that. Didn't get his head around and I'm like, "Man, am I watching Tyrion Arnold all over again?" But he runs step for step with guys and he's always prepared for those in-breaking routes. So I really love what I'm seeing there. So vertical routes, the dig routes, the post, the slant, a crosser, whether it's machine, I'm assuming the Lions are still gonna run a lot of man coverage. So that's important. And that's where they got beat at times. Guys like Carlton Davis just at times would lose those reps, Arnold would lose those reps. Now you get a guy that maybe takes away half of the field because he doesn't really lose those reps. He's always kind of in position to make a play and he can close really fast. And that's what really stood out to me. It was how fast he closes to the football and the communication aspect. Like there are times where if you're playing in zone, you've got to play to your rules. Like if you're, if you're got to cover three and you got the deep safety over the middle of the field and you've got the, you know, an outside third of the field, sometimes you can't get too deep because you have a route underneath and you have to trust the safety's gonna pick that up. And there are times on film where he communicates that and knows exactly where his zone drop off begins and ends and in all of those things. So I love seeing that stuff on tape from him. I love the physicality like I mentioned and I think it's just a great signing. I would have never signed Carlton Davis for 20 plus million dollars a year. Just no offense to him. I just wouldn't. He hasn't played in 13 games or more in five straight seasons. - Yeah. - So I just, I wouldn't pay that amount. I would have paid 14, 15, 16 million dollars for sure, but not 20 plus and that's what he got to go to New England. That's fine. I'll take DJ Reed all day long. He fits exactly what they're looking for. Ball skills are always there. He's not always gonna pick the football off, but he's always gonna be around the football. So yeah, to me, he strikes me as if you're a receiver, I almost, you know, I think, I would love to talk to those guys. Like who's a pain in the ass to play against? My guess is his name would come up because he's such, he's kind of a smothering presence. I don't have the data. I don't, you know, but I wonder my guess is he's a little better than Davis was as far as how much separation he allowed. If that makes sense, he's very sticky in coverage. And I love the idea of him coming up, hitting against the run. You can trust him. You know, he's gonna play the leverage. He's gonna do everything that you want. And again, it allows a player like Arnold to continue to grow. It allows Rake Strahd to continue to grow. I think it pushes a meek where he should be playing at times. You know, they have versatility and flexibility kind of everywhere in that room now. You know, I like it. I think it was really good. - Yeah. - You know, losing Malefan was interesting. And I know we'll get to this more at the end of what we're, when we talk about the draft stuff, but it almost puts, it almost puts safety as a position of need. And I know you've, you've drafted two recently, but you kind of do need, you need, you need more there. Right? - Yep, yeah. - Yeah. You need, you need depth and you need, you need some play making. And it'll be interesting to see what happens at 28. It's one of those, that's one of the positions where I do feel a little bit, a little sense of security around the draft where at some other positions, I feel like at pick 28, it's going to be like, man, this sucks. - Yeah. - You know, all the edges are gone. So maybe safety is something that they'll look at. I don't know. - This is a message from sponsor Intuit TurboTax. 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Just you wait, AutoTrader. - Whether it's a movie night or just midday, Skinny Pop is a salty snack that keeps on giving. Made with just three simple ingredients for an irresistibly delicious taste and a large serving size that lasts. Deliciously popped, perfectly salted. Skinny Pop, popular for a reason. Shop Skinny Pop now. - But you know, they've lost some guys, right? But to me, Melofan wouldn't play much last year 'cause he was hurt a lot. That's kind of been the story of his career. You replace Carlton Davis with DJ Reid. I don't want to say, I mean, I don't think it's a downgrade by any stretch. So I think you're sort of even there, you know? And the whole tone of the Lions Free Agency, and it's something, I think Lions fans really need to embrace and understand, is that, you know, while other teams are bringing in big name dudes, older guys, you know, and paying them, the Lions are returning all of their elite players, especially in defense. The Lions are returning their studs from injury. So there is no free agent available who is Aidan Hutchinson. - Right. - There's no free agent available who's a Leem McNeil, there just isn't. - Yeah. - I know they're returning from pretty catastrophic injuries, right? But, you know, there's no reason to think that they're not going to be back in some way shape or form like they were before. - Yeah. - And that's the priority, right? So, I understand the frustration around, you know, the bears making moves and the Vikings making moves and all this stuff. But, you know, go ahead, go. - I was just going to throw this question out because, and it's for the people. I mean, send it in the chat, whatever you got to do in the comments, reach out to us on Twitter @rusnfldraft @vishoff_scot. But, how many teams spend a bunch of money in free agency go on and win a bunch of games the next year or the year after? Those teams that spend a bunch of money end up getting in cap hell and they have a ton of dead cap space that they've got to worry about in two to three years. Look at the Tennessee Titans. They spent hundreds of millions of towers last year for agency. They won, what, three games? - They had it. - First pick. - Number one overall pick. And I get it and I have a quarterback. It's different. Like, the bears have Caleb Williams and they're doing things, they're building around him. They're, you know, putting around key players and positions and all that. I get that, but like, it is a lot of money spent. So if it doesn't work out for the first year head coach and a second year quarterback that struggled year one, you're in for a world of hurt in years two and three and things like that. And the same can be said for every other team that's spending all this money right now in what was said to not be a great free agency class. I mean, it really wasn't a great free agency. - Yeah, that's. - There were some names at the top, but I mean-- - Yeah. - Well, the client situation is very different than some of those other teams. Like the Lions are paying golf a ton of money, right? You know, the bears, the bears are paying Caleb Williams a lot of money, but it's not, you know, 50 plus, it's not 45 million a year or whatever it is. The Vikings are a team that scares me a touch 'cause with McCarthy on a rookie deal and some of what they've added, you know, I mean, that was a team that was 14 and three last year. - Yeah. - They're a little scary, but what are you gonna do, right? - So, well, and it's clear too that what their goal is this offseason, they want to stop us from running the football, right? Jovan Hargrave, Jonathan Allen, just trying to get bigger bodies. And I know some of those guys aren't necessarily great against the run, but it's clear what some of the teams in our division, what they were trying to do. Just eliminate some of the things that Detroit does really well because they'll shape up pretty well and match up pretty well against the other teams, whether it's the Packers, the Bears, whatever. So, it's gonna be really interesting on that, but. - It really is, and the takeaway, the whole thing is, do you want to make a splash signing? Do you want to do something cute in free agency right now and potentially lose the ability to resign Kirby Joseph or Jameson Williams or Brian Branch when they're up because you don't have necessarily the money to do it? I know you could always find money. Like they could restructure, they could restructure golf today and find, you know, $20 million on the cap, they could. - They could restructure Glasgow, so on and so forth. - But I don't know that the lion should be in the business of doing that and putting themselves in a rough position down the road. I don't think that's what Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell are looking to do, but in the end, this is a 15 and two football team returning elite players on their defense, and that's the approach to free agency, is bolstering some of that. Now, are they done? No, I mean, we're gonna talk about Roy Lopez in a second, but are they done? No, I think they'll add an edge player. I know they've been talking to von Miller. You know, whether or not that makes anybody, you know, Orman Fuzzy, I like the idea of adding capable guys behind or with Davenport opposite Hutchinson because we know that the injuries and even weird stuff. It just, it seems to kind of strike him. So I don't know that, and the way they structured his contract, they're telling him like, you know, the more you play, the more you're gonna make, the less you play, the less you're gonna make. So I like the idea of adding, like if they went into the season with Davenport and von Miller and a top 60 edge player, whoever it is, whatever it is, let's just say it's Nick Scorton, right? That they settle on it, pick 28, whatever it is. I think I would feel pretty good about that. So the player opposite Hutchinson is one of those three guys or all three of those guys at different situations in the game, you know, different down and distance kind of stuff. I think that's good. - Yeah, you know, you brought back on Zarique. I think that helps to buffer the potential of not having McNeil early. And then there's Roy Lopez, and I know you wrote about him before free agency. - Yeah. - Tell everybody what you saw. - This was a guy that like getting into free agency really started paying attention to some of the names that were out there, looking at the bigger names, but realistically I knew that the lions weren't going to be splashy. Like DJ Reid caught me off guard as I mentioned, but I didn't expect them to go all in on Joey Bosa and all in on this guy and all in on all these other guys. I just know realistically that's not what the lions are going to do. I know you can see what Brad Holmes, as we've been talking about how he values salary cap, how he values his picks, how he valuables his time. And I just, I knew that they were going to go a different approach from what everybody else wanted to see because yeah, the big names are fun and sexy, but Roy Lopez was a name that nobody talked about because it's just not a sexy name, it's just not. So I'm looking at him like, I'm going to watch this guy and I start watching him and I just couldn't stop. And it was like, this guy was a gritty interior defender that just fit our profile so well with what the lions have been doing on the interior part of their defensive line. He can play as a two-eye, he can play as a nose and he's primarily a nose, but he shaded a lot. So he's going to be a zero shade on the center. And he really, he might be left-handed, just judging by the way that he really hits that post step and extends out and tries to, he lacks length there. So he's always going to be kind of chest, chest and tight, but he's strong and he holds his own at the point of attack. So he's going to create some separation the best that he can. It's going to be short arm, kind of T-rex-like, but he's going to hit you with a push pull, he's going to hit you with an arm over. And really, he just fights laterally. So when teams are trying to reach block him or they're going to, you know, try to run duo on him and they're going to gallop technique and hit him and then try to get somebody to the linebacker, that stuff's not going to really happen against Roy Lopez as much and if it does, that's fine because Jack Campbell and Alex Anseloni should be free because he does a good enough job with with standing and holding his ground just long enough where that center or that guard or that guard and that tackle, they have to stay there long enough to keep him there and that allows that linebacker or safety or whoever's coming down. It just allows them to play free. And I think guys like Pascal and Hutch are going to really benefit on the outside. It should free them up one on one a little bit, the same with Rita and McNeil. So I think it's a great move because he's powerful, he's strong, he gives them just another body in the middle that we know they desperately need, especially against the run. Yeah, but he generated over 9% interior pass rush, you know, rate according to, I think it was pro football focus and it was one of the highest of all the defensive tackles in the free agent market and he signed for under $5 million. I think it was maybe five and a half at the most and some of these guys are signing for 11 and 12 and $15 million a year. And here the Lions are just kind of fleecing everybody by getting Roy Lopez who's going to play 40, 50% of the snaps and get you a 9% pressure rate. So yeah, I mean, if you look at what Lopez got paid and what owns a Rek got paid, you would think that the Lions are doing, they're doing business using a different calculator than other teams. Right. But those are important guys. Lopez strikes me as a dude who's just going to give you everything he's got, every snap that there is, he is a very difficult player to play against because he's heavy, he plays with really good leverage. I don't want to call him like a penetrating kind of because that's not necessarily what he is, but he's not just a stiff, you know, fire hydrant, one gap only nose tackle. You know what I mean? It's not like he's a nose tackle where you're going to say, hey, pick the pick, pick either the shoulders left shoulder or the center's left shoulder or right shoulder and just kind of own that gap. He's capable of kind of winning either way. So yes, he has super short arms, but I think he can bench press centers. I think he's really good at doing that kind of stuff. Yeah, push pull stuff is impressive. I think that he can give you some lateral stuff where he can show you, you know, going one way and then through effort. And that's the big thing with him is it's just all effort all the time. He can move laterally and he'll chase stuff down or give you everything he's got not to get blocked. Yeah, and that's a really good thing. And the nice thing is that, you know, so reader, DJ Reader was recovering from a torn quad the entire off season last year. And I think it was a bit of a race for him to get healthy enough for the start of the regular season. It's nice this year that he has a he has an off season where he can just he could just, you know, keep himself in shape and just have an off season and not be rehabbing. So I think I would think that he will he'll give them a little bit more juice than he gave them last year. Hey, what's up guys? I'm Fred Warner, linebacker for the San Francisco 49ers. Abercrombie has the new suits you need plus all the collared shirts to go with them. The Abercrombie and Fitch Collins suit is the only suit you'll ever need for any occasion, available in slim classic and athletic. Pair with a collared classic, go with a soft, easy to wear sweater polo or a comfortable long sleeve shirt. With so many different fits and fabrics, you can make a look that's completely your own. 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Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply. - But the nice thing about Lopez is that he's gonna give reader breathers and he's gonna take snaps from reader where you're gonna get more out of reader simply because Lopez is on the field and is capable enough, as he knows, like you're saying as a shaded one, whatever it is, to give reader a breather and when readers on the field, it may make him a better player just because Lopez is capable of spelling him. And I think that's super smart. Any time you can sign a player to help another guy, I think that makes a ton of sense. But from a culture standpoint, for all of it, Lopez is, he's what you want, right? I mean, it's good. It's a good signing, but it's hard to say it's splashy 'cause it's a nose tackle and it's not a lot of money. But it's a really good team developing kind of move. - Yeah, and the other thing, the other thing is too, is he's gonna help early on in the season. We've talked about this in the last couple of shows. We don't know if Aline McNeil's gonna be ready for the regular season and you need a guy that can play from a nose to a three-second in pair with DJ Reader and give you valuable and productive snaps. And Lopez is going to do that if McNeil's not ready to go. Now if McNeil's ready to go, great. Even if it's only 20 snaps a game, perfect. Whatever the case may be. So I thought it was one that was sneaky underrated. It's gonna be one that really pays off. He might not get home to the quarterback all of the time, but he's gonna get close to it and force that quarterback to throw off his back foot or drift a little bit in the pocket. And when you do that to a quarterback, it throws off his mechanics and it throws off the football. So it could put a DJ Reed, a Tyrion Arnold, in a better spot to make a play, intercept the football. And I think that's important. So if it all works together, then we should be relatively okay with this. Yeah, I mean, it's the whole concept around, do you think disruption is production? And for me, it is. Any time you can push a center or whatever it is, a guard, whatever, back into the quarterback to make him uncomfortable or to make him maybe short set his front foot when he's throwing the ball. Sometimes that causes quarterbacks to sail the football. Any time you can do that stuff, I don't care if you didn't get home, it shouldn't matter. Your impact is there. You can see the impact that those guys have just by making quarterbacks either throw the ball too soon or making them, like you're saying, alter their mechanics to where they're not repeatable. Anybody who plays golf, you know, you want, you know, just think about a golf swing that you gotta change up, you know, and then the ball's all over the place. That's kind of how it works with quarterbacks too. A lot of quarterbacks don't have the ability when their feet are not exactly perfect to be super accurate. Like, you know, when I think of a player who can be accurate, no matter where, what is feet are doing, it's a player like Aaron Rodgers, and those guys are rare, you know? Most quarterbacks can't really be super accurate and like, you know, in the NFL, you need to be really accurate. - Yeah. - When they're pressure or when they're feeling pressure, seeing pressure, sensing it, all that stuff, it matters. So Lopez is a guy I think that I look at as a nice depth piece who's gonna give readers some, you know, snaps off and be productive when he's on the field, you know, good smart sighing. - Yeah, 100%. You mentioned Levi, I was a recap, I think that's a great ad. I like seeing Miles Adams back. We'll see what happens with guys like John Kaminsky and stuff like that. Kevin Zeitler is gone, he goes to Tennessee. So it's probably the Christian Mahogany Show at Right Guard or Left Guard. I hope they move him to the left side. - Yeah, I'm with you. - Glasgow is more comfortable, it just seems like he's more comfortable on the right side throughout the course of his career. So we'll see, but the big name that was, I thought a little surprising was that they released the Darius Smith, the defensive end, and we know what they gave up to trade for him at the trade deadline, and they needed to. They had to make a move, this one made sense, but it also makes sense to a sense to a degree to why they let him go, because there was a bunch of roster bonuses in there that were guaranteed, starting tomorrow, recording on Thursday, March 13th, Friday, March 14th, he was guaranteed to get a bunch of bonuses, and got to ensure that that didn't happen and count against him on the cap. They obviously had to make the tough decision and let him go, but I'm gonna assume that, like just out of a gut feeling, I think he's gonna be back, it really do. I just, I don't know what the terms are gonna be, it could be one year at six or seven million with some incentives to do some things, but I just feel, the other part of it is that there were three void years that were on the back end of his contract that were gonna become guaranteed a week before week one. So, multiple months from now, but still, his, the amount of money they would have been paying him for one year of service was gonna be $11.9 million. Like, right, you just can't, it would have been spread out over this year and next year. - Yep. - So you ask, could Zideria Smith be back? That'd be a really nice move to bring him back. It's him, it'd be him, Marcus Davenport, and hopefully a draft pick. I like that. - Yeah. - I think that's good, right? But he, I think there's a little bit of pride that he'd have to swallow to come back to know, like, all right, well, you know, I was gonna be locked in for $11.9 million over two years with you guys. Now you only wanna pay me six and a half for one. - Right. - But he may not have any other options, right? So I think an incentive, you know, a veteran contract that's incentive heavy could be good for him. I'd love to bring him back. - Yeah. - I think he works. I don't know, I don't know how perfect he is for this scheme and for what the Lions do, but I do, I do like the idea of bodies that can make plays and, you know, not trusting Davenport to stay healthy. - You need a guy, you might need a guy like Zideria Smith and I think that would make a lot of sense to bring him back if he'd wanna come back. - Yeah. Well, and I think that's the kind of the next part of what we're gonna be talking about is, you know, what's this look like for the Lions in the 2025 NFL Draft specifically in the first round? Because obviously the deeper you go, you could mention the depth of just getting another defensive end or whatever the case may be. But specifically with pick 28, for weeks we've been talking about getting another defensive lineman, but now we saw them bring back Levi Ozarique. They've got Josh Paskel, they've got Marcus Davenport, they've got Aiden Hutchinson, they bring in Miles Adams. I mean, that's five defensive ends right there. You have Ray Lopez, you have a DJ reader, Ali McNeil, you could probably make a case for, you got look, hi, Wingo, I forgot about him. So you're kind of already running deep on the defensive line and you know, realistically, you're probably only gonna carry seven or eight, maybe nine defensive linemen in total, the same thing on the offensive side of the football because you're only gonna be able to carry 22 to 23 offensive to defensive players and the same on the other side. So I'm sorry, 23 to 25 on one side and 23 to 25 on the other side. So you gotta have three for your specials, your kicker, opponent and long snapper. So you gotta think of it like that way too. So if you're gonna carry four or five different linebackers and five or six defensive backs, well, next thing you know, you kind of got the number at what you're gonna be, probably somewhere between seven to eight, maybe nine defensive linemen. So it's gonna be really interesting how this shapes up if Zadari Smith isn't in the works. And again, I hope he is just because I would like to see more out of him and I would like to see one year of Aiden Hutchinson healthy and Zadari Smith on the other side with those guys behind him as we've been discussing. But if it's not Zadari Smith coming back and that leaves that defensive end spot open, I think at pick 28, getting a defensive lineman makes sense, whether that's Derek Harmon or Nick Scorton, which I think both of those guys, if I had to like rank them one and two, it'd be one A, one B at pick 28 because I think Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell are fine with either one of those players. I think they fit exactly what they're looking for. And if you're talking just scheme and just overall team fits, those two guys are Detroit Lions type of players, 100% every day of the week. But I don't know what this actually means though. I mean, like with how they've assessed this free agency, period, if they sit here at pick 28 today, I just, it kind of feels like best player available that isn't quarterback running back or tight end. - It could be, yes, or it could be a path. - Fortunately, running back and tight end are the two positions, two of the three, I think that are the eaters. - Yeah. - Not even close in this class. The other is D-line. But the nice thing about bringing back on Zariq is you're not forced just the combination of Lopez and owns Zariq. You're not forced to have to take a defensive tackle. If Harmon's there and they really like him, they'll take him and we'll all say cool, really good football player, right? - Yeah. - If there's an edge that falls to them and they feel like he's worthy of pick 28, cool. You know, I think that makes a lot of sense. Scorton, Scorton's interesting. And I know that when we first looked at the off-season stuff, we did a D-line thing and we, at 280 pounds, he looks to me like Josh Pascal-ish. But if you go back two years ago and you watch him at Purdue, there's a lot more. He's got a lot more twitch and a lot more explosiveness in his game than what he looked like at 280 pounds. So I would tell anybody who's looking at him at Texas A&M just to go to the Purdue film from two years ago and dial up the Michigan game. He gave Michigan fits in that game. So he looks like a different player at a little bit lighter weight. And I think that's, you know, he made some comments at the combine that, you know, Texas A&M had them doing very different things. So that's a thing on Scorton. You know, those two guys, I think that the other two things I'd want to talk about is the potential for it to be a guard with losing Zeitler. And it's a bummer you lost Zeitler, but the Lions are positioned well, they're positioned better to lose, to me it's that they were positioned better to lose a guard than they were to lose an interior defensive tackle. To me, that's how it felt. So Zeitler walking away as a bummer, it would have been nice to run that offense back another year 'cause that was an incredible offense, right? But, you know, I think there's gonna be a bunch of players that get drafted early that probably end up playing guard in the NFL after maybe not working out as tackles, maybe. But there's one player in particular, Donovan Jackson from Ohio State, who if he's there at 28 and I don't think he will be, because to me, he is kind of like a premium guard in this class, especially with the scheme the Lions are running, which is a lot of outside zone and power, which is weird, but that's what they've been doing. So like outside zone specifically, I shouldn't say specifically, but Gibbs is an outside zone runner and it's a terror and everybody could see it last year, just how effective he was when you get him, you know, on the edge of a defense, good luck, right? - Yeah. - But then being able to, with the same personnel, run power concepts and that's the same stuff and it's kind of like toying with defenses like, oh, you wanna, you wanna go dime or you wanna go nickel, you know, we'll run power and if you wanna, you know, play a little heavier, we're gonna run outside zone. So any guard that they bring in has to have the ability to do all those things, right? And he does. And to me, he looks like a very high-end football player who will play as a guard for a long time and be productive as a card for a long time. I don't know what you think, but I don't know that he's gonna be there at 28. I'd be surprised. - If you think he's gonna, if you think he's gonna go sooner and then that means you know something. - It's not that I know something, it's just, I think there's a lot of security in his game that there isn't with other players. - Right. - Do we think Tyler Booker's gonna go ahead of him? I mean, he is a power gap scheme guard, period. I don't know that the Lions wouldn't be all that interested in him, I mean, they'd be interested in him, but I don't know that he's gonna be able to be deployed in an outside zone system. - Right. - And he's being a phone booth. - I could see Donovan Jackson, I really could. I mean, there's kind of, I don't wanna, I'll say it, kind of some Jonah Jackson-esque game, like two of them, you know, there's kind of this game is like that, but he might be a little bit more defined than Jonah Jackson, might not be as clunky, I guess. You know, he seems like Moby's a little bit quicker. - Yeah. - So I could totally see that. I mean, I'm perfectly fine with it. I think addressing the trenches is very important because Taylor Decker's 31 and, you know, you're paying him $20 million a year and he's getting banged up. He's playing at a high level and I would love to see him play for another four, five, six years, but I know realistically that's probably not gonna happen. So he's gotta think another two years left on the current deal that he's on. So if he ends up, you know, calling it a career, you gotta have some potential behind him. And I'm not saying that's Donovan Jackson, but, you know, in a pinch, he played really well at Love Tackle, so. - He did it. And I think he's a high-end football player. And, you know, in this class, there's not, there's a bunch of like players that you think, okay, in time, maybe. - Yeah. - I think he gives it to you right now. And then the other, the other position, I know we talked about this earlier, I'm gonna let you, I think you like talk about this, this is the safety position. So all of a sudden, there's a need there. So I think they're, they're, they're good at corner. Obviously they have plenty of linebackers. Bringing back Derek Barnes is a good, is a really, it's one that we haven't talked about. - Oh yeah, I didn't even talk about that. I forgot all about it. - Yeah. So I mean, that's another one where, okay, there's your Sam. There's your, you're giving you some blitz and with the ability to play in coverage and all that stuff. I'm excited about him coming back. I think he's a really good football player. Another guy who you just like, yeah, it's really good to have those guys around, good football player. You know, but safety is suddenly like, all right, on defense, it's D-line and probably safety. And if there's a player that they fall in love with, that they think is a, is a really good player, you have a name and I'm a, I totally agree with you. And we're both gonna talk about this probably from now until the draft, about who we're gonna comp him to, go ahead. - Yeah, I think if you can get Malachi Starks in any way, and I know it's been kind of some chatter in the national media that he's gonna fall to 32 to Philly or be there at 28. I don't see in any way that he's there at 28. I don't know how he gets outside of the top 15 picks to be completely honest. I look at Miami at 13, I look at India at 14. Both these teams could very well take a safety like him. And if he ends up going sooner, does it any way force Jada Barron down the board from Texas because he'd be another perfect fit? - He sure would. - But looking at Malachi Starks, I just think he's one of the 10, 11 best players in this draft and he's a guy that's incredibly fluid. He's versatile, he can play inside and outside. He gets after it. I love the way that he, you know, he can find the football. I think he could play as a single high for you. I love that he can cover the slot. He can man up some tight ends. He can play down in the box. There's just so much that he can do. And it fits because it kind of reminds you of like a Bryan branch in a sense. And I think if you can have another Bryan branch who can play, you know, 'cause that's what they do with I Theta Malefan-Wet times. They put him down in the box and we saw him blitz him and they can cover the tight end and he would cover the slot and he would do all those things. Well, now you get rid of Malefan. And I know we didn't have it a lot this past year, but that forced the Lions to have three linebackers on the field a lot. And I don't know if that's, I think that's what they want to do, but I don't want to say that's what exactly what they want to do all the time. They want to be versatile and they want to be able to go from that base package through a true 425 or, you know, something with a three high safety look. And they want to mix and match different things. And they didn't really get to do that two years ago when Gardner Johnson got hurt. They didn't really get to do it this past year because Malefan-Wet got hurt. And so now it's like, can we get another safety into the mix? And if it's Malekai Starks, I'm 100% on board. And if it's not Malekai Starks, like I said, Jadae Baron would be great. Wilkuba from Texas is another one. I think I'm saying that right. Yeah, he would be great. But my personal favorite, and if it's not Starks, it's this guy at 60. I am sprinting to the podium for Malekai Moore out of Alabama. He fits the Lions to a tee. He can play multiple spots, like I've mentioned. I think he's one of the 50 best players in this draft. So Malekai Moore, Malekai Starks, give me a Malekai, please, for this defense 'cause we need it. So the idea of adding Brian Branch to your defense is like, you know, I think some people would kind of, I don't really like that. You already have Brian Branch. Two Brian branches, it's like ordering pizza from your favorite joint, and what's better than getting one pizza, two pizzas. Exactly. Well, like, come on. I mean, like the versatility, the ability to interchange those guys and do different things. Yeah. Yeah, it'd be really important. So we're, as I, you know, the draft is, this draft is gonna be really interesting. I think that there's a, there's potential for, there to be a serious letdown at pick 28 with all the players that you, that you like, having gone in front of you. And you think, all right, there's some edges that, that you like, but not at 28. And there's, you know, maybe some corners that you like, but not at 28. But this safety's sitting here, man. Like that guy, like that player. So that, it's always nice, it's nice to, to feel like, you know, Holmes is a best player available GM. He's gonna need to do that. If, if Starks, if Starks is that, then I think everybody should be pretty excited about what, what that potential could be. I mean, wide receivers in interesting position too, you know, maybe more at pick 60 than pick 28. But, you know, a player like Jaden Higgins from, from Iowa State, 6-4 and 2-15 with some pretty good route running chops. - Yeah. - Would make some sense, but, you know, again, pick 28, pick 28 might present you some challenges with, you know, Donovan Jackson's gone. And, you know, all the edges that you consider taking it 28 are gone. And it's like, man, this is a bummer. But I think they'll be good. I like the way they're set up going forward. Again, returning all of their, their elite pieces. Well, I just, I didn't think, I mean, you know, we gotta talk about Hendrickson before we get out of here. I know this is a long one. - Yeah. - Your penalty gets, there was a point at the deadline last year where I was, I was wanting them to kind of make that move. But only from the, the frame of getting him for one and a half years on his contract, Hendrickson having to pay Hendrickson after paying the draft capital price to get him is something altogether different, right? I don't know that paying him 30 plus million dollars a year is something that they can do with everything else that's coming up. On top of giving up the capital, you have to give up to get up. So, you know, I don't know if that's where you are on him. If you have different ideas on Hendrickson, I think there was a desire in this offseason for Garrett, Miles Garrett to be a lion and anything else was gonna feel like a letdown. And that's kind of what feels like has happened. - Yeah. - We don't, we're not recognizing that they have elite guys who missed large portions of the season last year that they're getting back. - Yeah. - And that team still went 15 and two. - Yeah. - We're good. - And I think there's this thought of like the nat, but maybe it is the national media. Maybe it's local media here, I don't know, but it's like there's this window and the window is gonna close if they don't capitalize now. And it's like, well, hold on a second. They've got a relatively younger head coach. They've got a relatively younger GM. They are doing really good things early in their career. And if this is sustainable, then they should be around for the long haul, maybe 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. I don't know. Maybe it's another Patriot dynasty waiting to happen. But either way, you have guys that are doing it the right way from the top down. And that's going to carry over for years to come. So like the window should never close. The window should always be open and there should be a draft and you'll catch a breeze and things are gonna be good. And I don't think you have to force your hand to get a Miles Garrett because he's quote, unquote, available. I mean, that could be agent speak, just trying to get him a land, a new deal, which is exactly what he just do what happened. - Yes. - The same thing could be happening for Trey Hendrickson and the same thing could be happening for other players. And that's why like a Joey Bosa got released and Cooper Cup got released. Maybe because they just wanted too much money and the organization was like, that's why we're getting rid of you. We're not dealing with that. And they knew that the price tag was never going to match what they really want for that player. So they just let it be. And I think that could be the case for Trey Hendrickson. He might end up getting a new deal and sticking it out or he might end up getting released because it sounds like they want a first round pick and nobody wants to give a first round pick for a 30-year-old edge to pay him 30 million dollars. - Yeah, that's the problem is you might have got, you might have got a pretty good second round pick or a first round pick from somebody, probably not a first, but you might have got a second round pick at the deadline. And Hendrickson would have been, then you would have had him for a year and a half and then you would have had some flexibility to do some things in and around having him already signed for this season coming up. But it's a totally different thing. If he's demanding 30 plus million. But it should. He's been very productive. You know, get every penny you can get. It's just the Lions have drafted, Brad Holmes and Campbell and those guys have drafted so well that they can't necessarily afford to play the free agent money game because they have too many of their own that they absolutely have to pay because their own guys are significantly better than anything that's on the free agent market. - Right. - Kirby Joseph is, that guy doesn't become available as a free agent because he's really good. - Exactly. - Grand Branch shouldn't either. And Jameson Williams is gonna need a deal. Hutchinson still needs his deal. Like there's a lot going on there. - Yeah. - But they're all elite players. So, you know. - Well, I mean, like the Lions are okay. - Yeah, and I mean, like just think of like the injury aspect of it. I mean, we saw Aidan Hutchinson go down, a young player go down on a freak play. The same thing could happen. Hendrickson, Garrett, anybody at any point in time. And they make that deal and then injury happens. Guess what you're faced with? A bad contract to an injured player that will probably not be the same. And then you're gonna be bad about that. So, you're just gonna take the good with the bad. And up to this point, I think they've had a relatively good free agent signing period. They've added some good players. They've lost a couple of good ones. But I think they're gonna be okay in the long haul. And they've got players waiting in the wings, you know, Chris Mahogany, Geo Manu. I mean, there's plenty of good things coming, it sounds like. So, we'll see what happens in the coming week or so, if there's any more ads. But I think probably next week, we'll shift our focus towards, you know, back to the draft a little bit, focus on another position and those types of things. But I mean, that's pretty much the free to see aspect from our aspect here. So, you guys, of course, can rate, review, subscribe to the Detroit Lions podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and all other podcast platforms. Of course, you can follow us on Twitter, or X at Russ NFL Draft at Bischoff_Scott. You got anything else there before we get on out of you? - No, I've done enough talking. - All right, well, I have as well. So, you guys do all those great things. We'll be back next week talking to Troy Lions with you guys. But until then, he's Scott Bischoff. I'm Russ Brown. This has been Bischoff and Brown. The Detroit Lions podcast. - Let's bring it here together. (cheering) - Lions on three, one, two, three. - Five! (laughing) - You've had enough of that shit.
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