New eps drop on Patreon first! Social rules of handyman shits (2:10), crisis actors (22:09), congestion pricing (35:23), "Eric" and "Hit Man" on Netflix (57:24), NBA Finals: why Boston again Dallas seems to be lacking a spark (1:03:02), Caitlin Clark is the take whisperer (1:22:23), JJ Redick or Danny Hurley for Lakers coaching vacancy (1:43:23).
Cookies: A Basketball Podcast
-500 Aura: Cookies 459
(upbeat music) ♪ I love cookies ♪ ♪ I love cookies ♪ ♪ I love cookies ♪ ♪ I love cookies ♪ - Welcome to Cookies, the world's most influential basketball podcast. It is a brilliant, beautiful, breezy, so much alliteration. Day here in New York City. Andrew, whoa, what did you enjoy? Gorgeous weekend. - Oh man, I enjoyed it. I kind of enjoy every day, man. With enthusiasm from behind the window, sitting in my living room, with five screens shooting NBA Finals stuff into my brain. - You are really excited about this year's Finals, and we're gonna get to that in a little while. As a Boston day one, I understand. - Well, let's get into it now because, you know, in Boston tradition, poop is on my mind this morning. - That does tie into a Boston playoff lure for sure. - All right. The most amazing playoff lure of all the lures. - He was on TV. - He mentioned that one. - He was on ESPN being like, I had to go to the bathroom, and then a year later, he was like, no, I didn't have to go to the bathroom. I'm like, we've all been there, Paul. It's a human thing, it's fine. - Yeah, that was great when Paul Pierce acknowledged that he did, in fact, defecating his own shorts, and then kind of retracted it. No, no, I didn't say that at all. - I admit, I meant something different. - It went back in. - It wasn't a chart, that's not what I said. - Yeah, the turtle poked his head out, saw it was game one of the NBA finals, and put its head back in, like most turtles do. - It'd be kind of great if in all these Celtics montage that they showed him, like on the stretcher, a wheelchair, however they extracted him, you know, from that shitty situation. - Well, I bring it, I bring it, it's on my mind, because I don't know when the last time you've had a handyman or TaskRabbit come over, an electrician, plumber, very, very helpful people. I hired someone to put together kind of a complicated Ikea shelving unit for me this morning. Awesome dude, coordinating with him. He's like, I got you, shows up on time. He's like, very nice, shakes my hand, puts on those little booties, not to get my floors dirty. Immediately he's like, can I use your bathroom? I'm like, absolutely sire, shit away, and that he did. - Well, look, this is the risk you take. When you hire a TaskRabbit for a Monday morning, you gotta assume you're his first job. - Yeah, no one's getting a TaskRabbit at 7 a.m. or it seems unlikely. Or, I'm saying, but it's almost certainly his first job. He's just loaded up on a coffee. He's getting ready for the day. It's circulating through his system. He's Ikea's shelf building nerves are tingling. He arrives and he's like, it's just one thing. There's just one thing I've gotta do, sir. - Prepare, prepare, I gotta get my mind right. I gotta get my body right. And I am no kink shamer. You can poop wherever you want. People got a poop. I don't mind that part of our bodily function, but it was incredible because it is like a trope. And yeah, he did tell him, I was like, hey man, do you need any coffee or tea or-- - Oh, I've had a lot of coffee. - That's what he said. - A lot of coffee in a huge breakfast. - Yeah, he was like, I had my coffee. I was like, can I make you some breakfast? Like, I got food. He was like, I had a big breakfast. I'm like, yes, you did, sir. This was after he took a shit in my bathroom. I didn't smell it, but I kinda did. - Well-- - The seat was down. Yeah, it was in there for 15 minutes. - Okay, hold on. - 15 minutes. - Okay, all right. There's a lot of parts of information here. If you didn't smell it. - I kinda smelled it. It wasn't bad. It smelled like a fart, you know? - Yeah, a light scented shit from a handyman is, I think, getting off easy. - Oh, I am grateful for him. Get out of here, yes. - Now, 15 minutes, that's a bit prolonged, if you will. - I'm hoping it was a number two, not number three. Or four or five. - If it was hell square or six, your bathroom would not be intact. - Yeah, this is true. But if it was a number three, it would be intact. - But that would take 15 minutes, yeah. - It depends. But I assumed it was a number two. There was a little light smell and whatever. It was just like, I'm like, this is what I, this is what I pay my good, hard earned money for, man. - 15 minutes may have been him shitting for like two and a half and then just waiting for like the after effects to subside for 12 and a half minutes. - If he was a dog, like Paul Pierce, he would have unloaded in his pants and just like changed his shorts really quickly in the bathroom. He would have done it while he was waiting for me like outside my door. - Here's a question that maybe you haven't considered. Did he charge you for those 15 minutes? - Oh, it's not hourly. I do, since it's like here, it's by the job. So it's not the normal task rabbit scenario. - Ah, I see that would have been a real, a real snafu. - Are you taking shit on my dime? - Look, if you're gonna shit on my dime, shit fast. Get in there, shit fast. I'm not a monster, you can shit on my dime, but it has to be like, come on, let's go, clockwork, get in, get those bowels moving, pump 'em out, come on. Rock back and forth. - If you pay someone by the hour, it is, you're buying into their number two, number three, number four time, right? You're buying their retainer fee, not necessarily a job fee. - Well, yes, because by state laws, people get bathroom breaks, but not on like a one hour job. - Oh, yeah, or if it goes like one hour 10, it's like, I gotta charge you for the second hour, but I'm like, yeah, you do, but uh-- - But 15 minutes of that was you shitting. - Yeah, but that's part of the deal. - That's what got you over, but that got you over the hour mark. - Yes, exactly. I mean, have you ever hired like, like a cleaning person? Like a-- - Yes, yeah. - Per hour, I've only done that once. I didn't love the experience, but the one time I did, they were like, so did you set up with the person like, rooms as like a flat fee, or did you do it by the hour? Like, oh, we did it by the hour, like, in that case, I'll be taking my time. They were just like, oh, okay, so we're probably only gonna get to like, a couple of these things that you have on this list. I'm like, that's fine. I mean, there's like a shot clock, right? There's a strategy. There's a game'smanship to this. - Yeah, I've never hired anyone in that capacity that wasn't just like a flat rate, so I didn't really care how long she was there. You know, like, if we take her, well this was, well, I've only had a woman. It wasn't a gendered thing. I'm talking about it in my experience. There's only one person. - That's his mom. Butler, I don't remember that sign, folks. - I do. And yeah, she could just be there, and I was like, yeah, you can hang out, take your time, go have lunch, take calls, I don't care. Like, it's gonna cost X amount of money every time. That was back in like the Airbnb era where people would come in every now and then, so it'd hire me before I left. - That was a golden age, right? We thought anything was possible. Like, I don't have to do shit. I just have to have an iPhone. - Yeah, we had a good, that may have, that may have been the last good moment right there. - Right, what? - Four things really fell apart. - When Uber drivers had like snacks and waters, like we're getting paid, this is sick. I'm like, we're in a new age. And that was a new age. - We had mustaches on the front, for some reason. - Pink furry mustaches. - Yeah, and I used TaskRabbit because it was an option for IKEA. And I was like, do I even trust this service anymore? 'Cause like, I had not been on since they first started and I was like scrolling through. Like, this seems like a great service. Eventually, I'm gonna use this. And now this was like half a decade ago at this point. - I used it to get some things installed around here and it always feels a bit like an admission of my lack of handyman craftsmanship. - This is where I was going. - As a dude. - Is it a little emasculating? - Yeah, for sure. But there's certain stuff I just don't have that many tools to do or there's stuff I don't want to fuck up. But yeah, you still have to be in here, but you know, kind of like throwing down with you. Hey, dude, how are you? Good morning, welcome over. Yeah, you're gonna put this mirror up for me. I do it myself, I got a big meeting. - Big meeting with the men's group. - Kickin' the tires of your billy shelf. - Gotta head down real quick to meet up with the fellas. Yeah, we're gonna kill a deer with our bare hands. - I mean, in New York terms, like, even in New York terms, I'm not good at this stuff. And I am not a tough person, shockingly. So I want someone who's good at it to do it, but I can imagine if someone comes over and they're like, I don't know what I'm doing. Can I see the instructions? Like, wait a second, I can do that. But it's also like, I'd rather be making perfect pods or looking up WNBA B-Ball reference pages. I don't know, I'm just like not good at making a handyman task work. - Well, you mean more to society as a podcaster? - Yeah, yeah, this is true. - And as a tweeter, then you are as someone who would build shelves in their own closet. Like, we can't have you squandered on that sort of thing. - I need to go buy those peaches. But this kind of relates to, maybe it was a tweet or maybe an Instagram meme I saw being like, trade school is a trap. Like, do not let, do not believe that when people tell you you need to learn skills because these skills have a clock on them and the future is more limited than it might seem. I don't like, however dark it is, like it's kind of true, right? Like, and there's always gonna be a need for people who are great at everything. But like, I remember I was trying to learn Flash and I was like, I cannot learn this. But all my friends who did learn it were just like, we went to school for this. And then when Flash no longer is a thing, they're just like, what do I do now? - Well, you know, I went to college studying to be, you know, an Iceman guy who had cut large chunks of ice from the lake in the winter, store it with some hay and then bring it on a carriage to people's houses in the summer. Turns out there's not the same demand for this back when I was a youth in the late 1800s. - There's like a need for every man to claim that they're good at like building stuff, right? 'Cause it occurred to me I mentioned Flash and what I mean by Flash is like the beginning of the internet when stuff moved and that was like a skill that was very much in demand that was no longer in demand a few years later. But like, that is also a little like not tough. Like there is a need for every guy to be like, I know my way around this shelf or this car repair or this kind of hands-on thing, right? - I mean, for sure, I mean, when my car had a light went on in front, I had to change the ball, but it requires pulling out like an entire sort of apparatus to do that change. So I went on YouTube and figured out how to do it. And then I went out and made a big show of doing it in the street. I'm out there, little radio going. You know, got grease all over my hands, the hood is up, got these things out and people are walking by, I'm kind of like lightly cursing. And I don't make these like they used to. You know, I probably took about seven minutes, but I elongated it to a solid half an hour of me just like horsing around with my car fixing things. Great experience. I would recommend getting a task grabout for that. - I mean, this is like the basketball discussion or debate, right? 'Cause I think like fixing car is a bonafide skill. But sometimes I get the feeling it's like, well, you just don't wanna, you don't wanna get dirty. And I'm like, no, no, I wanna get dirty. I just don't know how to do that. It's like when people are like, I have a couple of friends who claim they can't cook. It's like, I just can't, I don't know. My wife does it in the kitchen. I just order in, whatever, like I don't cook. And I'm like, cooking is one thing where you just have to follow instructions and it kind of just ends up good. Even if you mess it up, if you just care about cooking, you end up with something edible, right? That doesn't really happen with fixing an engine of a car or building shelves. Like if I just follow these instructions, I could build this thing. And I'm like, no, I can't 'cause at every step, something changes. - I'm with you on the IKEA part. I think there are certain IKEA things that you should hire someone to do because they take a long time and they're involved heavy, big elements. And if you haven't done it before, they're just a major pain in the ass. And sometimes it's like you even need clamps and tools that are not quite part of the IKEA set. I'm talking about big cabinets and stuff, like a kitchen. Yeah, sure. - That's what I'm having done. - You know, a kitchen? - Like kitchen units, like not cabinets because that's a whole thing, but just like a freestanding kitchen unit, like that seems very complicated. It came in a million places. - I'm with you, like that is technically an IKEA project which puts it in the category of like, can you like clip these two things together and then hang it somewhere? But that's not, it's not. - I can make a-- - Yes. - No problem. - That's what I mean, like these like massive cabinets that weigh like 180 pounds. And no, that's not the same. That you need a skilled person or it's gonna be a miserable prolonged experience. And I'm just not down for that if it comes to making a thing. - Also, that's not really being a handyman either. - That, yeah, this is, well, I didn't hire a handyman. This was like a IKEA verified task rabbit, but yeah, totally, point to-- - That's what I mean. Like no disrespect to that king who pooped in your bathroom. Because he can probably do-- - Yeah. - He can probably do those other things. - Oh, definitely, definitely. - Yeah, you mean like, yeah, that's the guy who's building IKEA, like they are skilled, but that's not the same as someone who's like, hey, I'm gonna build an outhouse for myself before I come into your apartment. - And there's a whole world of IKEA hacking and IKEA like nerddom that I bought a unit that was basically a shell of a cabinet and then all these modular parts. So I was on this website for like an hour being like, can I put this shelf in here and then double this up and then put a different facade, you know, like it was one of those modular doodads and he was just like, ah, can you just show me a picture? I have no idea what your brain was thinking when you ordered this and I'm like, neither do I, you know, like, and I just kind of started talking to him. I was like, are you like very, very busy doing this stuff? He's like, you wouldn't believe. You're one out of four today and my week is booked. I'm like, that's amazing. He's like, I enjoy it quite a bit. You know, he's just like, my brain is IKEA. I know these things back and forth but I can't read your mind. I'm like, this is kind of incredible. He's like, I love my job. - That's kind of cool because this is what he likes doing. He works on his own time. I mean, he does have a boss in a sense and that's TaskRabbit which takes a cut of his profit, probably a hefty amount. And his reviews on that are what keep him in business and being on the platform is necessary. So, but other than that, it's probably a better version of being an Uber driver because it's like more, quote unquote, skilled. - Mm-hmm, yep, right. And Uber drivers, that. - And we're in demand that there's less people who can build IKEA cabinets in New York City than there are who can drive a car. - What's your vibe on IKEA in general? - Don't like it, but it's fine for all sorts of things. I hate going into an apartment and my own is one where you see those little brackets on the inside of cabinets and you're like, IKEA. - I know, but it's like, I told myself after like I graduated college, like no more IKEA. Like I'm an adult now, I can live like an adult and not a freshman in college or a sophomore filling out their living room. And I've never gotten quite there. I can't escape it 'cause not only is it affordable, but it's kind of good. And there's certain pieces you can recognize right away, like the Billy shelf like everyone has. So the record grid it out shelves that everyone has, which are the best actually. And then there's some stuff that are like nicer. I imagine all these expensive buildouts for kitchens and stuff. Like most of them are IKEA like structurally and then they put custom stuff on the doors. Amazing company, but like still has a stigma attached to it, doesn't it? - Yeah, I mean, as it should. I'm with you, there are kitchens and those things have gotten a lot better. - Yeah. - Like they look good, but yeah, I'm with you. I don't think it's great quality. At the end of the day, like that little thing pops off the inside of the cabinet and it's still annoying. - Yeah, and like it's not good to be living around so much plywood or particle board, but maybe it's fine, I don't know. It's scary when you go shopping for furniture. It's like complies with California laws, from out of the hide and about glues. And I'm like, "God damn, this is confusing." - So I'm on task rabbit, I'm trying to. - It's Paul Peter, he's like, "I will shit you." - You can get people to do errands. - You can get people to do errands. - Yeah. - You can get people to wait in line for you. - Oh, do we want to talk about this legislation? - About restaurant? - I'm looking up, I'm looking at podcasting. And I don't see anything here. I don't think that falls under TV mounting or event staffing. - Add some search, important words to it, like influential, perfect, right, perfect in the search bar. - Okay. Sex work. - I, executive assistant comes up, if you ask for sex work or event staffing. So I don't know, maybe there's some possibility there. - Yeah, yeah. Casting. - Where do you go for your crisis actors? - Mm, I love Craigslist. You can get some really great stuff on Craigslist. I'm an eBay guy, so maybe you can't really sell services on eBay, so Craigslist. It feels like every election cycle or every now and then, we get these screenshots from ostensible craig lists, craig's list postings, asking for actors on one or the other side. Or, hey, it's me, George Soros. I'm willing to pay $10,000 to anyone willing to wear a pink pussy hat, wear a pink pussy hat, and then protest King Trump, and then it gets, uses evidence that the other side is not actually a moral army, or the most moral army in the world, or one that believes even in what they're saying. Nancy Pelosi said that Palestinian protesters were probably backed by the Russians. That's something that Russia's interested in doing. They're a war with Ukraine, but they have a budget for anti-genocide protesters. People in favor of a ceasefire backed by Putin. But this is a tradition, claiming that the fans of another political platform are in fact not genuine, they're astroturfed. - Hey, I got an email from a one L Rose from the MSG network asking, begging me to go down to Wells Fargo Arena and sit in the good seats. - Well, you were roasting the Sixers for them giving out tickets for that. - That was a crucial game six in Philadelphia, and that was kind of the same thing. - So sweet. - A little bit astroturf, although those people are happy to go. They weren't, but in a way they were paid off. I mean, remember when we had the legend, Dr. D, on this here, Perfect Pod, and we asked him about Nick's stuff, and as Mulder, conspiracy theorist number one, said, he was like, "I can't talk about that." And we're like, "Why not?" "Don't aren't you a fan of the Nick's game, you're always courtside, you're on the jumbotron." He's like, "Well, I like being courtside, and I like being on the jumbotron, like, say less, Dr. D, say less." - Yeah, you don't want to leave early, like certain influencers, get banned, because you didn't show proper reverence for your courtside seats. Which, to be fair, considering the value of them, you shouldn't bow early. You should stick it out to the bitter end if you're going to take those tickets. - I've flip-flopped on this recently in my old age. I used to think, I used to go to sporting events, see blowouts, and watch people leave early. And I'd be like, "But the experience is great still. Why don't you just, like, walk around the arena, or just, like, sit out this 10 minutes, like, this room is incredible. The lights, the action, whatever. Now that I'm washed and old, I'm like, "Oh, I want to get home." Like, if I can beat people, like, shuffling down staircases and waiting for the A train, I'm going to do that. Like, go home, leave early. American Airlines Arena, get in your car, get in your stretch limo, get out of here. Because, yeah, I mean, you've watched the game. I don't feel like shaming people anymore for leaving early. - I only mean, if you are accepting the front seats from Dolan, you kind of have to stick it out. I'm not saying a normal person who wants to leave during the end of a bloodbath is a bad fan. I think you just run the risk of becoming the laughingstock fan, which is that you bail early, your team makes a furious comeback, and then you're watching the game across the street at a bar or something like that. - Yeah, counting on the doors with their ticket stubs. Do these organizations, like MSG or Wells Fargo, track certain people, let's say you're a famous person, that's courtside, do they track their social media, then make sure you're being like a Ben Stiller about it, being like, I love this team. You know who I love, this team. If you're like, ah, Bronson's had better games. We gotta take those tickets away from them. - Well, I know for a fact that certain teams are very sensitive about you rooting for the other one. - Oh, of course. - I mean, actually both New York teams. I've seen evidence. - My own eyes. - You can't just go to courtside and be like, I love the game of basketball. - Yeah, a buddy of ours went to a game wearing wizards gear. - That's strong, that's very strong. - Was seated courtside with a notable and a regular. - Someone who get footed up. - It was a mixed fan. - Right. - Yeah. So photos came out of our friends sitting courtside wearing a wizards tee. And apparently their friend, the one who was more notable, heard about it. That was not deemed a acceptable way of using the plus one that came along with that celebrity row pairing. - One time I, before I did it for a job and for a company, I got tickets to see a concert at Radio City. And I had tweeted like, this ain't going too well. And the publicists saw it. And texted me being like, can you delete that tweet? And I'm like, fair enough. She was like, a, these were hard to get. I'd appreciate it if you just kept that between us. Fair enough, right? I was like, I'll be good. You put me in my place, definitely. But yeah, I mean, obviously we're alluding to today's news that there may be actors at Trump rallies that are getting paid $75 to go and maybe a $50 bonus. I forget how the bonus kicks in. But a lot of his rallies, which are rumored to be sparsely attended or properly fulfilled up. That a lot of these people could hardly support him but have to be paid to go. - So who was paying them? Because Trump is not in the business of paying anybody anything. - Right. That's why-- - Because his entire career, you would say the main theme is that he doesn't like paying for things. That's why he's doing them in weird places now because he owns all the arenas and all like the fancy hotels money from four years ago. So he has outstanding balances there. So he's like, I'm just doing this in front of the four seasons landscaping because I don't need a task rabbit. I can build a shelf myself. - I mean, he doesn't pay workers. He didn't want to pay hush money. - He doesn't pay his lawyers. - Your girl, Stormy Daniels, doesn't pay his lawyers, doesn't pay contractors and people who work with them on his hotels. - No, he doesn't pay-- - Doesn't pay taxes. Like the idea that he's out there kicking every redneck schmoe who wants to roll in and watch him yell about sharks on stage for an hour and a half, paying them $75 does not fit in the method of behavior. - That we now understand how Donald Trump operates. - Right. Yeah, yet we can forgive him, not us, but his supporters can forgive him for anything, right? Like, what hasn't this guy done? Are we sure he's never killed somebody? He's claimed he could kill somebody on Broadway and still win president and be like, did you kill someone, bro? Why did you mention that? - I don't know, it's his exhausting. I don't want to, I mean, I'm into it. He is exhausting. I'm into the discussion, but like, I don't know. - It's just, it's just a bummer that he is not kind of a American king or like the jester for the country. If he was running for like a ceremonial office, he'd be great. - Right. - His, he's so American, his love of fast food, his low information about all topics, but his expertise on just as many. He's a podcaster, naturally. - Yeah. - But I mean, he's funny as fuck. - He is. - That mama log he had. - Yes. - Just that I was alluding to about sharks and MIT and this great question that he presented, which was whether it would be smarter to be killed by the electrical charge of a battery on a sinking ship or fed to the sharks. And he just goes on for two minutes about it. Like this guy is this president grandfather. He isn't, he has fantastic at being this person. Nuclear co is, he's just not old enough. - You gotta be, you gotta be buying an age for that. - He needs some more seasoning. - I was staring out the window being like, what ever happened to surrealism? Like that never came back. It's not like we're wearing UFO rave pants. You know, it's like, those are just, or maybe we are, but I'm like, McGree, why hasn't that vibe made a comeback? And I'm like, oh, it's Donald Trump. He's the surrealist. Like it has bled and evolved into politics, not pictures. So I'm like, yeah, his speeches are not only amazing. They just don't really seem rooted in reality, but they seem rooted in our reality, just not our reality. - I mean, I don't think you're wrong at all, even looking at QAnon or whatever kind of conspiratorial, mumbo, jumbo, whatever kinds of rabbit holes that people want to go down and all types of topics and all sides of the political spectrum. There is this discovery of an alternate reality. And it is all surreal. - Yeah, I mean, people use that word. - People say we're post-truth. People say post-truth. What about we just say we're on the age of surrealism? - Yeah. - It's a little more positive spin. - I mean, there was debate I saw where a lot of newscasters or talking heads claim like Trump supporters are not living in reality. And someone was like, but they are living in reality. This is the reality. We can't just assume that they're on Mars 'cause they're on Earth. Is Kyrie Irving living in reality? Like a certain reality, who knows? Like what he was trying to accomplish with his flat Earth stuff, but like, I don't know. Is the question like, am I on Earth? Because Earth is a lot weirder than I imagined. Maybe I'm on a version of Mars and I should get into my Elon Musk rocket and get back on Earth. See you on Mars. - Well, also considering how propagandized all of us are and Americans particularly, for sure, how are we even to say that our reality is the real reality? - I don't know, man. Like this, I want to talk about like Caitlyn Clark and all this stuff so bad, but it's not basketball time. But the way we talk about some of this stuff just feels simulated, right? I'm just like, oh, when is someone gonna accuse her of being reverse racist or just racist? Oh, here we go. Sort of like your girl, Kathy Hochl. Oh, I haven't a decent question to ask you. Hochl, Hochl, when me and you say words and names incorrectly, should we correct each other? Is that a good teammate move or a bad teammate move? - I say names constantly wrong, but I can't. - I think we just kind of let it ride. - You got to let it ride, right? 'Cause, but like if it's a name that's mentioned more than twice in a segment and it's said, like Jason Tatum is a top 20 player, right? Like, is it your job as a teammate to correct me or do you just let it ride? - I think if it's a well-known person where it's gonna be just weird to have a repetition of that error, then I think a correction is in order. If it's a one-off, who cares? - Yeah, but is it the gyro-euro dilemma? Is it the euro paradox? - Well, if it's a person's name, then it's different. - Yeah. - If it's just a word that's mispronounced, I don't think that-- - Yeah, but you know, the euro thing is like, well, I'm saying Ho-chul knowing that it's Ho-chul, but I don't wanna step on anyone's toes, especially politicians that do congestion-pricing shenanigans. - So is it Ho-chul? - I think it's Ho-chul, why do you say Ho-chul? - I always get it wrong, I think it's Ho-chul. - I think it's Ho-chul. - It's definitely not right. - I think it's Ho-chul. - Let's say it, let's go with Ho-chul. - All right. - Katherine Ho-chul, so she reversed. - Yeah, Ho-chul seems right. - Yeah, I've heard it, it's Ho-chul. - Feels better than Ho-chul, Ho-chul seems right. - Ho-chul, Ho-chul, Ho-chul, Kathy Ho-chul. - I think it's Ho-chul. - It's Ho-chul, I think, I, I don't know, I need... - With the recent emphasis, is it Ho-chul? - Ho-chul. - Mmm. - The first syllables is definitely emphasized, Ho-chul. - Ho-chul, I think it's Ho-chul. - Boom, Ho-chul, it is settled. - All right, so my question has no answer. It's an Ikea shelf. Every step has its own turn, twist and turn, but... - So it sounds like I'm recording from the middle of an intersection. - What's going on there? Is it congested, do we need congestion pricing for your living room? - All right. - Well, what's happening? - Okay, that's, had the window open, getting some of these early breezes, and all of a sudden, I'm in gridlock. - All right, okay. - So your girl, your girl, Ho-chul? - Yeah. - She, at the last moment, decided congestion pricing which had been debated and discussed and celebrated-- - Realized. - The disparaged for two years or however long it's, it's been in the process of coming to fruition. She pulled the plug on it. She ripped the gas tank right out. She crawled underneath the vehicle of congestion pricing and unscrewed the catalytic converter and ran off to it. - She did it herself. - She did herself, she didn't hire a crisis actor. She did it herself, she went and got those precious gems from the gem man who does that to catalytic converters. You're a car hater, so I wanna hear what you have to say first. - I think the worst thing about New York City is the traffic and like, I don't wanna be sitting out in a beautiful restaurant, eating my garbage plate and enjoying a beautiful day like today and see a raft or parked right in front of me. Like, it's a sea of Hondas. It's a sea of Volkswagen and they're all gray, white or black. I think less cars would make, I'm a bus boy, as you know. I enjoy and fear the bus in equal amounts. I like the subways, which I also fear and enjoy equal amounts. But these work well and I thought there was gonna be some congestion pricing that would go into the MTA. It's not really how it works. It's not that transitive, but no pun intended. But I don't know if congestion pricing helps or hurts, right? 'Cause there was arguments I saw from people that said, only the wealthy can drive these cars in and they're just not gonna blink at a price increase. It's like, oh no, only the poor people are being punished here because they're the ones who use cars and wealthy people don't have to deal with this kind of problem of traffic. I don't know who suffers here. I just want less cars. - So this is, in some ways, the issue with talking about congestion pricing. Because the arguments that are made are typically, as you said, those in favor of that, it's gonna be less pollution, it'll be less noise. - It's a more livable city. - Money for the MTA, this is who it's going to affect and these things. But the reality is that you or, I'm saying you, 'cause you have to be fit in this category, well it's more you as well than it includes you, are generally just car abolitionists. - No, you need cars, but there's a lot of cars. - But I'm saying, all right, let me feel like this, like in the same way as if you were an anti-abortion activist or say a temperance advocate, you don't want there to be alcohol. So even incremental movements towards the illegality of alcohol are a positive thing. You want big jumps, you'll take small jumps, you'll take anything as long as you're in that direction. - No, it's not abolishing cars, but tax and cars for congestion peak hours, which, you know, peak exists in many different worlds, especially if you go Metro North on a train, peak hours cost you more money. This has been a practice that's been generationally applied to different ways of transportation and cars don't seem like they should be immune to this automatically. - I mean, I think one point here is that I'm not opposed to congestion rules. If you wanted to say, no one except for cabs or, I mean enough cabs. Let's say no one except for service vehicles and commercial vehicles are allowed to go in and out of lower Manhattan between these hours. - You have two people in the car, no tax. If you're one person, you get taxed. - I'm just saying, I think like, if you want to make rules that were along those lines, that makes more sense to me. If you wanted to say this part of the city, no one can drive in. No one with this letter on the back of their thing during a certain day, you're not allowed in, whatever. I'm like, I'm okay as long as it's across the board. My issue with the monetary side is just that like, rich people want this. This is why Mayor Bloomberg wanted it. He's like, I live in Manhattan. I want there to be less cars. I don't care about paying it when I leave in the city and come back. I put my car in a garage. What I can't control as a billionaire is how long it takes for me to get 15, 20 blocks in a car. That's the only thing I can't control. And I'm stuck there with the same crisis actor who's blowing up Quo's bathroom in his truck. And we're just sitting here in traffic next to each other, even though I'm a master of the universe, media billionaire, presidential candidate, Mayor. And I'm stuck in traffic next to this guy. - But Bloomberg-- - And that's not cool. - Bloomberg being a billionaire doesn't have much to do with the idea that there's too much traffic and we have to fix that, right? Like, there's just a lot of traffic and I don't think things have to stay the same always. You could be like, we're gonna add bike lanes. We're gonna add city bikes. And we're gonna try to curb traffic. But like, it gets into the constitutionality because they were trying to curb ride-sharing cars. Like, limit the amount of cars Uber could have that would populate a certain jurisdiction in Manhattan. I'm like, that doesn't seem constitutional to me. Like, you're allowed to run a business unless you had like a law about, you know, in LA, famous "Curb Your Enthusiasm" episode, right? Like, I want to be in the carpool lane. So I'm gonna get a hooker. I'm gonna hire a crisis actor to be in the carpool lane with me just so I can avoid this ticket. Like, I don't know if that necessarily works, but it's an effort in the direction of not more cars, but less cars. - I guess my thing is that I feel like traffic is kind of, I don't know, it's like sort of self-policing. And this is an effort in a way-- - Wait, how is traffic self-policing? I'm curious, I don't know. - Well, I mean, if you look at the traffic and you say, oh, it's gonna take me an hour and a half to drive in, maybe I'll take public transportation instead. If it's gonna be fast-- - But the traffic is already there. - Yeah, I just mean, I don't think there's any time in my life other than COVID where New York hasn't had bad traffic. - Oh, this has been going back to the 80s and 70s, right? - Right, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think this idea of like a New York without traffic is like, well, no one's experienced that. And I get this idea, like it would be nice to have less traffic, but-- - We can try. - You can put Caitlin Kline on the USA team. You can put rookies on USA teams, right? - But I think to a lot of people who don't like cars, and I think you're right, cars are ugly and they sit around for most of the time, they don't do anything. And I'm, they're not visually beautiful. And I'm all in favor of more pedestrian streets. - Yeah, whatever. - It's cars. I'm just more like, well, if you're gonna fill up a street with like, shacks for sitting in and garbage containers, and I'm like, that's still not that appealing. Maybe there's-- - Well, that's-- - Nor public good, but it's still, we're still not using this in a great way. But I only mean that like, I think the people who would benefit from this are clearly people who live in Manhattan, who make a lot of money, who keep their car in a garage, who don't mind paying 15 bucks or 20 bucks, whatever, when they leave and come back. And they're like, this is great. 'Cause it's only lower Manhattan. It's just one place. It's like, oh, this is where a shit ton of like, wealthy people are. This is where people like go out at night. And if you don't care about the price tag, then you're gonna love it, because you can just zip around town. Or even if you're taking cabs, it's gonna be faster. And that to me seems more of the upside. Like, sitting on the street and they're not being that much traffic, that's never been part of like how New York works. Sitting on the street in New York has never even been kind of part of the deal. - One of our favorite places to have and beer shuts down the street in the summer. And I really like it, right? Like, we could just walk up and down. There's bars and restaurants put out their tables. And just for a few hours of the day, you know, happy hour, I think at 10 o'clock, they open the street up again. It's really nice. Like, people are just like chilling on the street, bullshit and like eating dinner. I quite enjoy that. When the few times I've been to Europe, really enjoy that part of Italy or France or London or whatever, London less so. But like, we're not Bloomberg people, right? Like, we just kind of enjoy having in beer spread out on the street outside and then we pack it up and go in. It's not like a political thing. It's like a human quality of life thing, right? - Yeah, I'm saying I'm all in favor of closing down streets. I'm not in favor of making the ability to drive around economic. That's all I'm saying. If you say, hey, we'll keep it as it is, but just funnel all the cars off into these couple places that are gonna be really annoying so people just won't wanna drive in or ban them from this area from even driving in. So you might as well take a train. If you're gonna be anywhere beneath 14th Street, it just doesn't even make sense. Might as well walk the bridge. I'm here for all those proposals. I just don't like the idea of like, oh, you can flippantly spend this money and someone who else is-- - How much money is it? - I mean, it was gonna be like 15, 20 bucks every time we drive in. - That's not nothing, that's huge. That's like after a week, that's a lot of money. - Yeah, that's what I mean. And then you tack on parking for the most part 'cause most people who are driving in aren't street parking. The thing I just kind of resent about it a bit is that like, I live in Brooklyn. I live a couple BQ's, E-stops from like the bridge. I can't drive into lower Manhattan without paying. You can drive around Brooklyn and you can do whatever you want. - And you're kind of in a transit desert. You have buses. - I like that. - Yeah, but you know, I'm just like, wait, we're not part of New York City, this is just a Manhattan thing, come on. - I mean, it's so interesting 'cause there's some neighborhoods that weren't served by buses or trains. And those neighborhoods sometimes end up being like very desirable because they're near water or the zoning makes it able for companies to make high rises or whatever. And then the city has a problem, right? Because there's so much taxation that they're looking at that they would love to sweep into their general direction. But the services aren't quite there. The infrastructures aren't quite there. And we saw with Hudson Yards, they built a subway station for Hudson Yards, you know? Which is like no small task. And I doubt that happens again in our lifetime. - Have you ridden like the, was it the first Avenue subway line? - Up into the, no, not the new stuff. - Me neither, is it nice? - I've seen pictures, it looks really nice. - Where does it run? It's so strange to have a subway stop that we've never ever taken. - It's weird, right? Like, but not only that, even watching the G trains and L trains kind of evolve because there were so many people who wanted to live in the areas that those places serve. Like the G train used to be the worst train in all of New York. Now it's kind of like the same. It's dependable enough, right? - I, yeah, G trains fine now. Oh, it's second Avenue subway. That's one of the- - They only went up a few 'cause they were drilling and realized they were compromising the foundations of some of these buildings. - Oh, it's 72nd Street to 96th Street. Well, no wonder I haven't been riding out. - Yeah, they couldn't do the whole thing because buildings were like cracking. - And then eventually would go all the way down to like Hanover Square. Yeah, that's not gonna happen. - That was Bloomberg's whole thing, right? He wanted to like push that forward. He was a legacy dude through and through. He wanted to get jet stadium on the West side and then it turned to Hudson Yards. I don't know what the fuck Hudson Yards is doing now. - We've talked a lot about poop, congestion. - Binks. - Do you watch the, well, this is actually, let me take that back. This is about the grimy New York. Do you watch any of that show, Eric? It's a really bad title, really bad title. If you know it, do you know what I'm referring to? - I do, I do. - Did you try watching anything 'cause this like grimy version of New York of lore, the 1980s is depicted in this show. - It was too wacky for me. It was a little too indie rock for me, but I know what you're talking about. I didn't make it far. a lot of acting going on. I'm sure it's great. It just wasn't my cup of tea, but educate me on it. Well, this is the one about a puppeteer. Yeah, I can't. But yeah. And that part wasn't even the wacky element. Let's see actress name, you know. Cumberbatch, right? Cumberbatch. Cumberbatch. Cumberbatch. Cumberbatch. Cumberbatch. He's kind of good in it because he's a good actor, but then he is playing a very predictable role for him as an alcoholic manic wound. Did you watch Dr. Strange? Do you watch those movies? No, I haven't seen that. He's as good as Dr. Strange. Those are also very wacky. You're right. He's a magnet for wackiness. So instead of talking really about this show, necessarily, it was more about their depiction of New York, which I found really grating. I think the show is terrible for what it's worth. Like it's bad. It starts out with like, again, a very 10 minutes in, you're like, "All right, this might be good." But their depiction of New York City is like what Instagram comments are on like a subway fight video. It's every single person is unimaginably rude. Like just violent and rude. The city is trashy. It's like the Fox News New York Post version of New York. And it's like, this is the 80s. It's gritty. And it feels very googled. If that makes sense. I believe the writer is British, and I'm not saying British people can't accurately depict New York, but it just feels googled. And there's one thing I wanted to bring up just because as a basketball podcast, it stuck out to me. There's a scene where they don't really tell you what year this is. It's clearly 85, 86, 87, or 88. And there's a scene where three kids are wearing replica jerseys sitting in a living room watching TV that's just an aside. They look over there and there's these kids and they're all wearing replica jerseys. And one has a you-ing. I love it. Whatever is one. One has a Trent Tucker. The other one has a Chris McNeil jersey. What? That's great. That's great. These are so weird because I kind of don't believe they ever existed. What do you make? A kid's Chris McNeil jersey? Were they making the kids authentic McNeil jersey back in '87? Someone found them. No, no. They don't believe it. Do you? They must have made them. That's like I'm not necessarily difficult. Unless a stylist had an alter-your-motive or motivation to make it because you don't budget a show like Eric can be like, "We need kids in McNeil jersey." The McNeil thing is the weirdest man. It must have been. I felt like someone said, "All right, you-ing Tucker, I don't know." How much would you... How much would you task rabbit charge someone? If someone came to you and be like, "I need a kid's McNeil, how much would you charge that person?" By the hour or while I'm shitting? Hopefully you should. Here's the tape. $400. Chris McNeil, he played a total of 108 games for the Knicks between 1986 and 1988. He averaged 4.3 for his career. It has to exist. 4.6 boards. One assist. I don't know. It feels as if they just went to a print job and were like, "Give me three." There's also weird things in this. Go ahead. Go ahead. I want your theory on why they found McNeil. It might have some sort of emotional attachment to somebody who is putting this together, maybe the stylist, maybe the director, but you can get custom jerseys, I'm sure, for a couple hundred bucks. I would charge someone as... If someone asked me to do this or the interns to do this, the interns would probably ask for. I'm $400 because the cost would probably end up being upwards of $200. Then you have to make it look old and it would take time. You'd have to deliver it. You'd want to walk away with $150. It's not nowadays with fast fashion stuff and websites I can customize stuff. It's not that hard. But what if it's not the right year and has to be authentic and the pinstripes aren't from '86? Nerds will know. It doesn't get in the weeds like that. You just see them from a distance. I'm guessing they just went to fanatics and spent 150 bucks, whatever it would cost, making three kid sizes, jerseys. That would be my theory. But yeah, the show is odd because it just depicts New York as being so relentlessly gross and awful in a way that doesn't even, after a while, it doesn't feel real. That's not what the city is like. And they don't give many specifics. These details just aren't there. It's a weird watch. But I thought you might have seen some of them. What about the hit of the day? The movie everyone's talking about on Netflix? Hitman. Are you up on that? Was there a basketball player named the Hitman? I know there's a wrestler. Who posed with that Tommy gun in those old 80s and 90s posters? You know what I'm talking about? Was that Clyde Frazier? Because I know the exact posters you're talking about. Anyway, it could have been him. Was the boxer Tommy Hitman Hearns? Is that right? It was Tommy the Hitman Hearns. It was Brett the Hitman Hart. That's all I got. It was... I'm trying to think of a NBA player that could take that. It was Clyde Frazier, right? But I watched some of it. It felt like Barry, to me, that show Barry on HBO. It's kind of quirky. It kind of humanized a really strange act of killing other people. I couldn't really get through it. I don't know what my intentions span is. What's happening to me these days? I usually can get through all this stuff. But lately, I've been starting and stopping shows. But again, educate me on this and tell me I should watch it. I thought it was pretty good. I was going to go with the girl. Are you a quirky movie that humanizes the act of murder? Because I want a link later. Was it Richard Linklater? Yeah. I love him. I didn't know that. I guess I love him. I didn't really get down with the Newton boys, even though Dennofrio was in it. But that's interesting, because I found it to be a bit dated. And he's a great filmmaker. I liked it. I thought it was sweet and low stakes. Good chemistry between the two main actors, neither of whom I really know much about. But I'm not that much of a contemporary film buff like you are. Oh, you're just like Cassavetes and Dog Day afternoon. Yeah, I only really liked it. Yeah, I'm really more of a criteria guy. I like the classics. Air Bud, he got game. Eddie. Yeah. What about it is notable. What about it will help me think about something or nothing? I don't know. How will I glean a great two hours out of this? I don't think it was great. I thought it was, I thought it was likable. I thought it was, it was lighthearted. And yeah, at no point do you ever think this isn't going to work out in a nice way that that isn't, you know, your happiness and the movie is not in jeopardy. I did like one of the messages. I don't think this is a spoiler, because it doesn't affect how you would infuse the movie. I like this idea that instead of saying, you know, the real you is what's important, or you should be who you really are. The message that they kind of explicitly say is like, you should be whoever you want. Like, don't worry about being yourself. Go be who you want. Be a better version of yourself. Figure out who you want to be and then go become that, which I think is kind of weirdly subversive when you're talking about the sort of mockish morality of films, which is like, no, the real you. That's the virtuous one. That's a good one. And this is like, no, not true. Because the real you might want to be a hit man. Well, it's like the real version of you might kind of be like a loser. Oh, if you want to come up with like a cooler version of yourself that's got like, that doesn't have, you know, negative 500 aura, or sub zero riz, you should, you know, go and try to do that rather than like say, I've accepted I have negative 500 or and that's just who I am. I mean, not to jump into basketball to get, but like, I think the Celtics fans realize they don't have a superstar and they're better than ever. They're going to win a chip. Oh, let's do it. We're right there. All right. We're right here. The interns are frantically gesturing. We've crossed the one hour threshold and outside talking about basketball. We didn't get to Hunter Biden or and or Ray J. Those were amazing topics. Instead, we're stuck talking about the NBA. So the NBA finals, everyone's saying it, negative 500 or why? Oh, my gosh. I think we touched on this last week. So hit the gong if I'm repeating anything from last week's perfect pod. But I think people, okay, I am just speaking from me personally. I think Celtics fans, the BMM, we've joked about them for years, they should take their victory lap. This is amazing. Like, they're going to do it. Like the stars align whatever, easy path, injuries, whatever, they won games. They added Jeff Van Gundy and Chris up for Zingas from MSG lore. And it's going to happen. And the the Mavs out in the West, like being a second tier seed, they were number five, but it was a bunch of four or five and six. Like they're just not good enough or they're just not a threat and they're not interesting. It doesn't mean we have to like talking about Jason Tatum or Jalen Brown. I think me personally, yeah, Jason Tatum is going to get his championship. It's like, well, is he top three? I'm like, can't talk about this. I'm done with this. Is this the best team in history? Like it is not. It's just a really great team. It's just like, do we have two of the best hand them in history? I'm like, you do not. None of this is interesting, right? Because we've litigated it so much because Boston media dominates our world. And Dallas is like, this is annoying franchise in an annoying city. I love Luca Dante. I love Kyrie Irving. That team is gross. Like it's like, oh, it's not going to be OKC. That's fine. Oh, it's not going to be Anthony Edwards. That's fine. Oh, it's not going to be Yokich, whatever. Luca can't walk into the arena without a limp like this is going to be great. Right. Yeah. I mean, look, of course, as any moral citizen we're rooting against Boston. Sure. Yes. You have to. There's no two ways about it. You're like, oh, I'm fine with them winning versus Dallas. No, you have to say I prefer you're either a good person or bad person in this world. Yeah. And that's why when people looked at the pre-series betting, you're like, wow, people really think Dallas is going to win. No. But no, they just dislike Boston. They're taking the points because they want to vet on it. Yes. They want to lay down some money and they're taking the underdog, which betting wise was Dallas, because they don't want to bet on Boston because no one wants to root for them. No one wants no one aspires to be a leprechaun. Sometimes you dream of being like a horse running through a field. Dallas, we get it. No one wants to be like a murderous leprechaun. Yeah. Look, and this kind of goes back to the ratings thing, which I don't care about. No, it's noisy to be to be clear. I don't I don't care about like. Are they growing their audience? It doesn't matter to me. I like the sport of basketball. I don't care. Although it's an interesting discussion that we had last week, right? Like I was thinking like if the NBA wanted to grow because people love to glob on to winners, if the ratings go up, the interests will follow. The NBC is going to do a great NBC will do a great job with this. Yes. And again, I think that's great for the NBA if they keep expanding and getting bigger and more people are into it and people keep subscribing to perfect podcasts and buying the joy of basketball and we get to keep it. Merch pieces. You knew fans. Exactly. All huge upside. But yeah, in my opinion, the ratings to a particular series, we can analyze them, but I'm not like, damn, this shows something overall. But in this case, one point I made last week and it's not one that needs to be laboring was just that this is the first series in decades where there hasn't been an MVP on either team. I don't know how long it goes back. I didn't even look because there hasn't been one on the winning team only one time in the last 20 years. And that was Kawhi who's about as close to an MVP as you can get. And that was also as finals where injuries marred the outcome against the Warriors. Other than that, you have to go all the way back to 2004 for the pistons who won it without an MVP. But that's not even saying there wasn't an MVP included because then you got to go through Hakeem and Jordan and so forth. So this is a kind of unique finals that lacks that kind of particular star power, that kind of narrative arc, that kind of proving ground for someone because Tatum is still 25. I'm sorry, because Lucas still 25. And Tatum, we know he isn't on that same tier as these all time great. He's a good player. He's good. He's good. So the story to me about the Celtics is like, and part of the reason why I'm more or less unbothered, other than my, as I said, core principle of ring against Boston, is that I look at this team. I'm like, this is a victory of a front office. This isn't the same Boston team with Marcus Smart and all these other guys who we grow them familiar with. It's like it's Brown and Tatum. Some guys, they got via draft picks from the Nets who have developed into excellent and useful players, but not superstars. They've acquired Porzingis, Drew Holliday, Al Horford. Howza. Howza was on the team, I think, last year. Yeah, he was, I think, and Derek White, but for their for their main six guys, all of whom are really good, a bunch of them are all stars in the past through trades. They have just, Brad Stevens just snaked the league repeatedly. I mean, he got Horford back for nothing because he wanted to go there. Derek White was one of late first. Yeah, even the Porzingis trade, and one's like, if he's healthy, that's really annoying. But he probably might not be healthy, you know, and Drew Holliday, everybody. You almost, I mean, you look at those moves now as opposed to how they could have blown up, right? Because Porzingis is the only reason this team is this good. And he was, he was, he was out, if they had played a good team, I think they would have been booted from the playoffs. They had nothing to the team and respect to them. That's why you get the number one seat. So you don't have to play shit. This doesn't mean that a healthy Celtics team isn't better than other teams when they're healthy. I just mean they were able to avoid playing anybody dangerous while they were an inferior version of this team. And now they're here. And Porzingis is back, even though it looked like he got dinged up a little bit. I think he's okay. Yeah. They're, they're an extremely well-built team. And as a Sixers fan, I look at the way they aggressively went out and found complimentary talent to their star players, who aren't even as good as Joelle Embiid. And I'm like, hmm, kind of wish Philly had done that. Well, instead of saying like, here's Tobias Harris for six years. Yeah. And I think they had to risk something, right? Like, these were not automatic moves. Drew Holiday was a great ad, not automatic because of his age and maybe situation. Porzingis had a risk to him, right? Because his of his injury history, but it all worked out for them. And it's kind of awesome. I'm kind of with you in like trust. There's nothing I like more than making fun of leprechauns and clam chowder and whatever. Folger boat in the area of Boston, Boston. But this team is cool, right? Like, it was constructed in a cool way. I don't want to get into debating what Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum represent. Because Tatum is just kind of like a goofy guy, like of the Drake mold. And Jalen Brown is like shares the same opinions as Kyrie Irving as people like negligible. I kind of don't mind them. The framing of them annoying. And that's a whole different thing. But this team is cool. And even Tatum's like, maybe I'm not the best player. And Jalen Brown's like, maybe I'm not the best player. I'm like, this is kind of incredible, right? Maybe Porzingis is the best player. Healthy he is, right? Like if Porzingis is feeling good and he's in his bag, he's probably the best player on 25 teams. So that's no shame. But it's watching Twitter trying to figure out how to talk about this team has been the interesting thing for me. Because there's no superstar. Yeah, it's funny because prior to the series, people were trying to talk about what this meant for the legacies of these players. And I was like, Boston's just not the main character in this. And I know that's really weird for the team who's likely going to win the finals to not be the main character, but the team is the main character. But there aren't really plot lines. There's like, what? Tatum finally got it. No, that doesn't work. Jalen Brown shows he's elite. You're like, he's good. He's already been named all NBA once or twice, even though he's like a good, but not great player. They are just a story of really excellent front office work. I mean, that team is incredibly well built. Everyone defends, everyone shoots, everyone moves the ball. And they have two guys who are good ISO scores that kind of kick the whole thing into motion. And a hilarious coach, hilarious coach. Yeah, he's I like Missoula a lot. Those quotes are great. I don't know how you can be funnier than Jason Kidd who asked the team or his player to knock a couple of water out of his hand to buy some seconds. But like, Missoula is lovable. You know, like, I don't want to root against fans or analysts. Like, that's not fun. And I find myself having a tough time rooting against these players or this organization, especially when my man Jeff Van Gundy is like pulling strings in year one. And he gets a chip like, it's hard for me to find any anger. And I've muted so many Celtics voices that like, my finals experience has been kind of pure. I don't know. I want, I want it to go seven. I want Dallas to find a way to win two at home. And by the time in next week, when we record another perfect pod, it might be a different story. But Celtics look like they can beat this number five seed out West. Yeah, I think that's that's accurate. I mean, to me, it's mostly that I liked drew holiday as a sixer. I liked Al Horford as a sixer, even though I was in the distinct minority in that regard, I thought he was fine in Philly. And he got a bad rap because he was making a lot of money and was a smart player trying to fit in to a starting lineup that made no sense. I like poor Zingas in New York. You know, Derek White, he was a guy that I thought that Philly should have traded for. I always thought he was a solid defender and a good player in San Antonio. But a lot of these guys have only been there a year or two years, you know, two of their main six. I mean, two of their starters are guys who haven't even been there a full calendar year. It's it's hard to get the same ire when Marcus smarts running around flopping and shit. Like, oh, this fucking guy. He's so dirty. I dislike him. These guys, I'm like, I don't have any issue with these dudes. They aren't died in the shamrock shake Celtics. And I want to stick to the brand a little bit like, you know, kind of like fuck all of these Celtics to, you know, like, I hope. Oh, fuck. I mean, fuck them all. I want them to lose every game. I just mean it's it's hard to get as worked up about these. Also, when I didn't think Philly had a chance in hell at winning this year, I'm less invested in the Celtics crumbling as well. And also, like when when your pitch goes down and when the thunder go down and when the the Mavericks somehow beat the wolves, I mean, soundly in game seven, but it goes game seven games. I'm just like, oh, the Celtics are not perfect and they can get beat by many of these teams. But it's not the Mavericks. Like, Luca is probably going to miss one or two games. I remember joking about that. IRL with you, like when that matchup was finalized, I'm like, ah, he's going to be game to game. And he's actually hurt. This is going to be annoying. And Kyrie's going to be like, hey, you know, winning and losing who cares. And I'm like, oh, he's doing that now too. It's like, I'm a better man now. You know what? I don't care about your feelings. I'm like, all right, the Mavs are who they are. And they I'm not obviously it's amazing how they came out of the West. And it was a cool Timber Wolf series at times. But it doesn't give us fans like much to chew on in the finals. I'm like, Boston's going to beat the Mavericks. Yeah, a lot of people would ask me, like, you got Mavs and this. I'm like, well, I have to. I don't have a choice. That's who I've got. Yeah. Yes, I have the Mavs. That's who I'm aligned with. Go Mavs. Yeah. Big Dallas guy, big, big D game day one. Like, what do you want me to do, man? This is this is who we're riding with. But like you think, well, you think they're going to win? Would you bet? I'm like, it's a different story. Amen. I picked the Jones on the yeah. Anyway, yeah, let's we're going to have to talk about them more next week. So let's talk about better shit. Yeah. I want let's all it's something that doesn't have a negative 500 or. Yeah. That doesn't Caitlin Clark discussion. Wow. We it's a culture now because we did the Caitlin Clark break down last week. And now there's even more to talk about. So now we're talking about, well, there's a few things we we didn't even get to the part where like Indiana members of Congress are trying to write resolutions about physical play against Caitlin Clark. We didn't even get to all that stuff. But now we have the latest topic du jour regarding Caitlin Clark, which is that she hasn't been named to the women's Olympic team. And this is, of course, again, scandalizing for the army of Caitlin Clark fans. Why is she able to generate such take artistry on nearly a daily net level? I think because we're all inherently sexist, and we can all think that we're not talking about gender most of the times. But like, it doesn't feel like we respect this player or any of these players. And I'm just like, it sounds like a tone of voice that is like, all right, let me tell you what the deal is. And I'm like, we don't really do that that often. But in the WNBA, it's just like, this is exactly what's happening to this rookie. And I'm like, I don't, I don't think so. I'm not seeing that. It's like, yes, this is like a race discussion. This is about gender equality. This is about capitalism. And this is now, it's about national pride. And I'm like, I'm not sure I see all these things in this wonderful player who's just adjusting to like a bigger and faster game. But these discussions are not boring at all. No, discussions are good. And I mean, you also have sort of traditional femininity versus like a more masculine version of it. And that's part of this too, right? Where it's, it's race, it's class, it's it's right. It's people who are new to a sport versus gatekeepers, right? I mean, just just an an unbelievable mix of vectors. It's everything. It's like gentrification, right? And I always joke on this pod about it. But it's the language people use being like, I don't like the way this town is changing. And I'm fine with the way things were in the beginning of the show, Eric. And that's real New York City. But this new building, it's like, get it out of here. We don't need affordable housing for hundreds of people. Like, I want things to say the same. The most interesting take, I guess it would be on the gentrification side, the pro gentrification side is that like, don't you want your property values to go up? Like, we're building this shrine condo to Caitlyn Clark. Don't you guys all want the benefits that Caitlyn Clark is bringing into your neighborhood? She's kind of like the Barkley center in this. She's gonna bring jobs wealth to your community. And yet, you're protesting? You're throwing rocks at her? How dare you? I mean, do you think it was just something that kind of unraveled things that we had on our minds anyway? A discussion of who's allowed to be here is a discussion like everyone loves to have. Like, who belongs here and who has a right to stay here is the question of every generation. Going back centuries, cavemen. It's polyamorous wizards. But anyway, like, and Caitlyn Clark is just like kind of, in my opinion, an innocent bystander here. And she has like kind of acted like that. She's just like, I am just trying to be a really good basketball player and all this other stuff. Yes, I'm disappointed here. Yes, I'm happy here. Yes, I grant this person their opinion here. But like, well, what do you want me to say? You know, and this is where people who have a language should talk about certain topics can talk about those topics. And I, of course, race plays into everything. To your point, I like quite a bit. It's like, her being a guard is different than Brianna Stewart entering the league, who has four championships at UConn. Ends up being the number one overall pick and probably pretty quickly becomes an MVP and maybe the best WNBA player of all time. But she's a big and it's just like, well, she's dominant because she was gifted with this skill, which is her physical part and her, you know, the things we like to consider skill, which is like touch and spatial awareness and all this. But Caitlyn Clark, like, I can beat her one on one, right? It's like this Steph Curry bait. Yeah, I mean, it's like you can unfurl whatever argument you want, depending on which position you want to, you know, stick a flag into the ground. You know, like, there's always a moral position. And that's why I think there's such feverish debate, you know, pun intended, because like everyone thinks they're morally correct, even the people who are completely wrong. Right. I mean, the oddest people are the ones who are just Caitlyn Clark fans and like, oh, you are the, you're the Ben Stillers. Right. You're the people who just decided that... Or virtue signals, right? But like sitting front row is at Knicks games and being Mr. Knicks on Twitter is like a role that you want to be. Like you're Mr. Caitlyn Clark. I don't see that many of those, but I've seen a few. Like people were just like, can't we just enjoy this greatness, that kind of thing? No, no, I'm saying those people aren't there. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm saying the people whose only interest in women's basketball is just the defense of Caitlyn Clark, which is, of course, as we were saying, cloaked in like, whether it's about race or it's about sexuality. There's something else there, where they are not fans of the WNBA. They're fans of Caitlyn Clark. And that she represents something in some twisted heart of darkness way that like the WNBA is this like league of, I don't know, like athletes who no one cares about that are laboring in obscurity. And here comes this glowing white knight and Caitlyn Clark to like lift them into civilization and like the modern world of wealth and TV. And yet they won't not like follow her when she drives the basket. I got to admit, I'm kind of most of my, mostly there with that. Because, I mean, we were just talking about Brittany Griner, not making enough money where she has to play in Russia and things unravel for her in unfortunate ways, right, where she's detained in Russia. And that's a whole story upon itself. And we got to talk about the economics of the WNBA. It's like, Oh, these people, a lot of these gifted players aren't making $100,000 a year. So they, this is a part time job for them being in the WNBA. But it is the dream because it has the most cultural cache. And then Caitlyn Clark is like moving games to bigger arenas and selling them out. And I'm like, there's something valuable here. Michael Jordan floated in entire league. Messi does that. There's, there's Gretzky, there's Tiger Woods, there's athletes that can do this. So this is not the first time we've seen this, like act like we've been here a little bit. Barry Bonds did it for baseball. They still can't figure out Shohei Atani, though, which is kind of like a parallel of the WNBA plight. Like, there's no storytelling, but Caitlyn Clark being left off of Team USA, I, I agree with people who are like, regardless of how good she is, or regardless of pedigree, you have to put the most interesting player in your sport onto that team. I'm like, yeah, why not? Just do it. Like, it doesn't have to be like, well, she hasn't earned her place. I looked at the stats like Dinah Tarazzi is the goat, one of them. Caitlyn Clark's like, turnovers are bad, but she's got her in most categories. Kelsey Plumb is a champion. There's four ACEs players on the C USA team. Caitlyn Clark's got Chelsea Plumb. Kelsey Plumb has not blocked a shot since 2022. You know, like, if we're talking stats, I mean, I mean, you've blocked a shot. Right, right. I mean, we're talking like, who are you going to take off this team? I'm like, just pick one. You know, like Caitlyn Clark is as good. If you're telling me a rookie is not allowed to be on this team, then that's a whole different discussion. Yeah, I mean, I can see the, the purest version and saying, well, look, this is a team and you got to earn it. And thus far, we don't think she's earned it. She's only played 12 games in the WNBA. She just hasn't earned this opportunity. Right. But, you know, she's just going to have to wait four years and come back. But there is also the fact that she is a huge fucking star. Yeah. And she is good and she's a great shooter. And, and the thing is, it's like, you could always make the argument that, and you know, men's basketball does this constantly. That's like, no, we need it. We need another shooter. Yeah, she's the shooter. Or a passive. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. But you look at some of these teams, like, Javelle McGee has been on, like, Olympic teams. Yeah. Like, we need another big. We need another, we need another shooter. We need Kyle Corver out there. Like, you don't actually have to say these are, it's not an all-star team necessarily. It's you're trying to build a basketball team with components that you find useful. And like, she is a elite shooter. And even though she hasn't hit that well at the WNBA level, we all know that she is. I don't know. I think that argument is even better, at least than saying, well, she's also really famous. Yeah, it's the dog paradox, right? Because if you think the team should be composed of the best cultural representation of American women's basketball, okay, then, like, no rookies, maybe, I don't know, it's going to be an easy gold for them regardless. But if you're saying we want to put the best team together, then I'm like, then she should be on the team. Then Kelsey Plum has to be off the team. You know, but we're not talking about the best team. We're talking about all these concurrent narratives to justify who gets there. And I don't know. Do we want to be the best or do we want to represent an idea of the best is the question. I mean, I think there would also be a lot of ill will towards the WNBA if they did put around the team from people who are longtime fans and from people who are like, you know, within the league itself. And I feel like if you're the WNBA, that's the real dilemma there. Are you trying to grow the prominence and visibility of the league by doing things that may be a little dicey and may alienate your core audience or, you know, your players, your coaches or people on other teams? Tough question. If you put her on there, in some ways, you're not even doing her any favors. Because you're just adding to this dog pile about her attention is unwarranted. She's overhyped. And now she's being, you know, rewarded for her college play by being named to a team that's comprised of WNBA players, of which she hasn't proven herself. And like, she's just gonna get more static for that if she was on the team. And maybe, you know, maybe they did her a favor. I don't know. There was maybe I fell for a fake NBA Central. But I read somewhere that a representative said that she probably wouldn't get playing time with this lineup. And she didn't want such, they didn't want such a popular player to have to deal with answering those questions of like, how come you're not playing? These are easy games and all these veterans are getting minutes over you. They didn't want that drama to distract from the thing. I'm like, ah, so a player's too popular. Like, and this gets into the mild sexism kind of debate that I think it's like, well, this is like a wounded brand. And you need this thing to push your brand. I kind of agree with it. Like, is, is a team representing a country, a diplomatic act, shout out the camera on, or is it a display of power? Or is it something fans want, right? And if fans do want it, then does the MUA need to, WNBA or women's basketball need to cater to those fans in order to exist with some sort of collateral? Don't they have the collateral baked in already? Do we need to please the masses? It feels to me as if the WNBA was just like, hey, we're keeping this like merit-based. And we're just gonna opt out. But I do believe that they thought about those other issues for sure. Right. Like, if we respond to the fans, if she's not, if she's not playing, right, we look weak, we look like we are giving preferential treatment to Caitlyn Clark. I think if Caitlyn Clark had came in and was blowing she'd out of the water, she would have been on it. Yeah, but she wouldn't be as popular, right? Like, this is a perfect storm. She is the ideal version of Caitlyn Clark right now, because she was fallible on the court. So you had people being like, she's, she's a fraud. You know, like these other play on the gatekeeper, these players are bigger, faster, and more skilled than this hot-shot rookie. You just started following. And I'm like, this is what you want. If she had come through bombing and not turning the ball over, there wouldn't be this tension. I agree. Yeah, and that's part of why she's the take machine. Had maybe your best game of their career. Eight turnovers. I mean, that's that's bad, but I'm saying. Yeah, amazing. Made, made, made seven threes, scored 30, 15 shots, got the W eight board, six assists, four steals. Turnovers are bad, but yeah, she's she's a great player. I think it's official. She's awesome. Is she better than Sabrina Unescu? I don't know. Pick your poison, but she's in that discussion. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, but you, you actually nailed it though. It's like she is at the exact right level of like promising, but still very flawed. And yet we both sides have tons of upside for their opinion. She might, she still might be a bust. She still might be a goat. The people can just argue this for a while. Anyway, a challenge to her for keeping, you know, the plus 500 aura going here. It's exciting, man. It's like when the final started to everyone's like, sigh, except for Boston and Dallas fans. Everyone's like, Oh, the Lakers are trying to steal the thunder of the finals. I'm like, no, it's Caitlyn Clark. We care about Caitlyn Clark. Like those, our attention has like shifted to her even more so than your boy, Bobby Hurley. I can't remember if I said this last week, but if I did, fuck it. I was like, you know what? We had that long break that five days, six days, whatever it was between the end of the conference finals and the beginning of the finals. And it felt like they could have just wrapped it up. Hey, you know what? We're not going to do the finals actually. Yeah, I don't know. We're just going to move on to draft and free agency and everyone are like, okay, that's cool. Kind of felt like that. Yeah, I think that break didn't hurt the momentum of it because the weather got good. Spring and summer was here. The first game was on a Thursday night on, you know, which is like a going out night. It was late on the west coast. It was like, I believe it was an 830 tip off on the east coast. Like, I'm Del Bojo. You're saying it was early on the west coast? Oh, my bad, my bad. Yes, it was early on the west too late here, my bad, my bad. Yes. And you know, Boston and Dallas, like, I love the NBA, but this is for heads only. Oh, for sure. There's, as I said, there's, there's no MVP. There's no legacy. There's no young kid. None of these. There's no curry. Yeah. I was watching someone posted a NBA on NBC preview or Bob Bob Coss's talks about Jordan's legacy entering this specific game with like beautiful music and cinematography. And I'm like, what a stark contrast it is to Barkley being like, I hate both these teams. You know, who's a sham? All of these players. They wouldn't have beat me. And I'm like, oh, this is a whole, and it's not his fault. It's the tone in which we talk about everything with everyone. It can be a celebrity if they can stick to their guns and be right enough. And I don't know. I hope I was saying like in order to boost Major League Baseball, the WNBA, or even the NBA, it should just hire a bunch of like wine and Kennedy ass writers, a few comedians and make these like lush overarching panoramic vignettes. And then we would get like some oomph because going into this, like you got Tatum, you got, you got superstars, potentially. All we have to do is talk about them as superstars, but we're not doing that. I fully agree. And I think we mentioned this that the article that kind of talks about the ESPN model versus the ABC model, excuse me, the NBC model. And how it's an ad for ESPN and ESPN personalities versus an ad for the product. And I thought the halftime game, halftime show yesterday was just like here's Stephen A Smith barking for two minutes. That guy doesn't know anything about basketball. He is a carnival barker. He is a self promoter. He's a genius at what he does. But he's not someone you want basketball insight from. He might be good on a talk show with a rant about a basketball player or a team as like a comedic interlude. But here's what we just saw. Let's go to Stephen A Smith. Dude, come on, man. Yeah. I mean, exactly. I just think the broadcast needs writers to be like hammer these ideas home, like make people involved, start, start months ago and build up to these finals. Because I don't know what Stephen A Smith was talking about. And he's just like, right, he just wants the economy of controversy and grievance, which is great. But I think there's space for us to fall in love with a finals as dull as Boston Dallas. I agree. Stephen A Smith is his economy is Stephen A Smith. His economy is not. We need to inspire a sense of worthiness in this product or awe at its athletes. It's still Stephen A Smith. And if that means that I've said, like Kyrie Irving didn't show up today and he's a he's a bitch, that serves the Stephen A Smith agenda. Yeah. Tune in on Monday for first take when I go really in on Kyrie Irving. It didn't want to go to the Knicks. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, fair enough, like it is not his fault. Sort of like it's not the Celtics fault. It is whoever is shaping this thing. Maybe this is exactly what they want. But there the the aura has been probably not perfect for this. What do you say? Minus what George Gervan Iceman aura. I mean, he had a huge aura, but I'm talking negative Celsius. I know. I mean, there's interest. People hate the Celtics enough to watch. But like there's confusion with Kyrie. Is he a good person or a bad person? There's confusion with Tatum. Is he awesome or is he just the guy like this is not good for the league? That's fine. Yeah. No. Yeah. I'm not even trying to harsh the maps or the Celtics or say that this isn't meaningful of course. Sure. It's meaningful enough. It's an NBA championship. Like, you know, it's going in the books, whatever happens. But yeah, it doesn't actually have the same glitter as some of the ones we've seen in the past. Obviously, that's true. But I don't think the Lakers news was time to diminish the finals. And nor was it even something that the Lakers should be concerned about. But be like, ah, the Lakers trying to steal the thunder. It's like, well, they're just trying to find a coach. So it looked like JJ Redick, a fellow podcaster is going to be named a coach of the Los Angeles Lakers, which I support. And I think that, you know, most or all teams should be, you know, coached by podcasters, the guys from throwing fits, I think would be excellent and sort of some positions. Red scare to the Houston Rockets. Let's go. Dasha is coaching your Lando magic. The Turtle Bay Turtles. Yeah. The JJ Redick hire was leaked by shams, shoms. And he was the only one who had it. But we had been kind of prepping for this. It had been no secret that they were talking to him. And it seemed like the logical hire because he had just elevated his brand so quickly at ESPN. He ends up making news as the next hire and immediately the next day, it turns out that the Lakers were looking at Bobby Hurley from Yukon as their primary target, which was confusing. Danny. Oh, my, my, Andrew, because we're, we're correcting each other now. Right. Right. You should have let me fly with it because the, the podcops at me, but God, I thought about it too. Danny Hurley is the guy. Did he go through his truck windshield or was that a third Hurley? You remember that was Bobby, right? Was that Bobby? Right. When he was kind of a decent pro. So Bob, but Bobby was the one who was a star at Duke who then waiteners guy went and was drafted as a lottery pick by the Sacramento Kings, had a signature shoe. You can look him up the Hurleys. They're out there. And then got in a car accident and was never the same. And then he might be coaching at like St. Anthony's or something. He was kind of back in Jersey where they're from. He was kind of good as a pro, right? I mean, he didn't play very much. Oh, I thought he was kind of decent. He might have ended up being good, but I mean, he, he, he only had a four-year career because, because of his injury. Yeah. Danny Hurley has won back-to-back championships, I think, with Yukon. And it's kind of like the lazy hire, right? Because he is having the most success at the level right below the NBA. And he's kind of like a hard nose, exes and nose, tough white guy, coach, conservative, seeming, right? So it seems like there would be little controversy with hiring him, whereas Redic has his sleeve, has a podcast stain on his resume, and is kind of like hated already. He has the Paul Pierce poop smear stain of being a podcaster on the pants of his resume. Right. Right. I mean, I, I kind of was annoyed at that Redic hire because, I don't know if we talked about this on the pod or off the pod, but like, his analysis, he, there's no doubt he's a great basketball mind. But is he greater than like, J crossover, Jamal Crawford, who like has been kind of reduced on air to a hype man, being like, yo, I love it, you know, like pushing the energy of broadcast as opposed to slowing the game down and talking about, um, minutia. And Redic has given this lane, and he's known as, I believe, the cerebral analyst, who can talk about the ins and outs because he's an ex pro and he played at Duke and he's, of course, he's smart. Look, he's white and has a clean cut. I don't see his sleeve anywhere. Right. And I thought he was an odd hire, but these are all political actions. Right. There's no great coach out there that we know about. So he might be the one. Hurley might be the one. J crossover might be the one. But you have to take a chance because SPO is not available. Yeah, I think there's every indication. Redic is a smart dude who understands basketball. I don't know if he's abnormally cerebral. I don't know if he's a good coach. He's not showing us yet. Right. I mean, I don't know. I mean, even with Steve Nash, there was a better sort of, there was more evidence that you could say from his playing career. And he'd even coached in Golden State a bit before he was hired by the Nets. But you could say, okay, he was a point guard. We understand that he was a basketball genius. He played under Mike Dantoni, who re-evented offense. He was an MVP. He's been in Golden State. You know, there's a lot of stuff there. Yeah, like the Redic, I saw when he got hired, people were trying to claim he was one of the greatest NCAA players of all time. And that's why this makes sense. I'm like, he wasn't even the 10 best Duke players of all time. But he fits that role, casting. We always talk about casting, right? And Hurley also fits. I don't know. I think it's our duty to be good people and root against the Lakers. So like, let the chaos begin. I mean, I think they would be crazy to hire Redic instead of Hurley if Hurley was available solely because Redic has never been a coach. Okay, but I just want to push back. The style of coaching Hurley is involved with, which is hard-nosed, disciplined, bringing it all in. He's a bulldog. Do you think that translates to like adults? I mean, isn't that fibs? There's many examples where it has worked. Brad Stevens, for example, like it, but Brad's, like Scott Schiles, he's not like tips. What did he get done, right? Like our Lakers fans happy with a second round exit twice in a row. Like, that's a failure, right? He gets fired for that. If you have LeBron and A.D. I mean, I'm with you on Hurley's coaching style of as being hyper aggro and yelling at people. But I'm not sure he's super intense. Famously intense. But I also think, I also think that intensity is, it's okay. Yeah, sure. And I think a lot of these coaches are super intense, but maybe he would chill out in the pros of it. Yeah, I think so. Also, is he just, is he just using this for a bigger contract from Yukon? I would. But like, he has any job he wants if he gets fired for only making the second round every year. Like, he has every job he wants in college, right? But maybe he likes Yukon. Yeah, maybe he wants to stay there. That's one of the great programs. But maybe he goes to Duke, like every other Hurley in my mind. I mean, that could work too. I just don't see him taking the Lakers job. No. It seems, I mean, unless they're just willing to pay him, like, I didn't say any amount of money. I just feel like his success, his security, whether it's at Yukon or if he goes somewhere else, like pros just don't have that, especially the Lakers job. You know, it's also ambitious and strategic. Perfect project. No, no need for the, the Robin assist here. Good news. I love the kids. I love the kids. I love the kids. I love the kids. I love the kids. [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]