Test Match Special

England v West Indies: Stokes targets series clean sweep

Jonathan Agnew is joined by BBC Sport's chief cricket writer Stephan Shemilt and the Daily Telegraph's Will MacPherson to preview the third and final Test between England and the West Indies at Edgbaston.

We hear from captain Ben Stokes, who's named an unchanged side as England aim to complete a series clean sweep.

And former West Indies batter Carlos Brathwaite joins the pod to give an insight into potential Test debutant Akeem Jordan.

Duration:: 36m
Broadcast on:: 25 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

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Open your free iHeart app and search "Grown Up Stuff." #Grown Up Stuff # You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Jonathan Agnew, sitting at Edgbas and overlooking the playing area where the Westin is warming up ahead of the third and final test match in this series. They've been hammered, of course, in the first two matches. It was blown away in that one session in Trent Bridge. They'll be hoping for better and I think everyone here will be hoping for better as well over the next five days. The forecast is good, can they make that test match last the distance or not? We'll discuss that, and other things that Stefan Shemld is here, the chief cricket writer, BBC Sport, of course, and Will McPherson, the cricket news correspondent of the Daily Telegraph. So news-wise, Westin is, well, they've named 12. They're not quite sure what they're going to come up with tomorrow because Schimard Joseph, who always needs to have something wrong with him, is ill this time, and, of course, Kevin Sinclair got that horrible blow on the arm. It looked bad at the time from Mark Wood. That's been confirmed as broken, so he is out. England, they might have made a change or two. They might have brought in Potts or Pennington to rotate it. There's a beauty contest that's going on, if you can describe it as that, to replace Jimi Anderson, but they're unchanged. So Atkinson has taken what's 16-wickets so far on this series. Mark Wood and Coe will turn out again. So that's where we start things. Let's begin Will with England, shall we? Were you expecting an unchanged team? What do you think they might... I used to start a great phrase of beauty contests when talking about those individuals, but you know what I mean. They're big strapping lads, aren't they? No, I am a bit surprised, actually. I think I've probably left Trent Bridge on Sunday night thinking that Dylan Pennington might get a debut here, but then I think I also left Lords thinking he might get a debut at Trent Bridge. So England do have a habit of doing this, making their players wait. You remember in 2022 when Harry Brooke was in that extraordinary run of form for Yorkshire, and everyone said he's got to play, he's got to get him a test side, and they just resisted, resisted. And eventually his chance came, and the weight kind of paid off in a way. In Pakistan, he was sensational. They did Gus Atkinson, Carriva drinks in India, and then by the time his chance came at Lords, he was ready to go. So I'm not entirely surprised. I think it's... I'm slightly disappointed, just from almost just from our jobs point of view. It's always nice to see new players and it's fun. There's not much else to write about, but I've done it. It's a little bit. You've obviously, you know, the kind of... The confusing thing is that England have retired James Anderson to have a look at new players, and then Mark Wood is 34, Chris Wakes is 35. We do know quite a lot about them. I also can sympathise with it in that I thought Wokesbould beautifully last week. Mark Woodbould as quickly as any footballer I can remember. I think it's quickest on record, isn't it? So I can understand why they've stuck with them. I would have been tempted just to make... You know, I possibly would have rested Atkinson, actually, just to give Pennington probably, but maybe Potts as well ago. Yeah, slightly disappointing, I think. There's the old player in me, though, you see. I would really hate it if I were Gus Atkinson taking 16 wickets. It's a test cap, it's a chance to take wickets. You know, I'd be furious if I were dropped to give someone a go, you know? I think integrity is quite important. Definitely synthesised about you, yeah. As soon as the England team broke earlier on today, I was getting messages from people saying, "Why have they pensioned off Jimmy Anderson "and they're not given bowl as a chance?" So it does seem a bit counterintuitive from England's point of view to have done that with Anderson and then not use this opportunity when they're two-nil up. But if we go right back to the start of this regime, if you will, with Stokes and McCollum, when you spoke to McCollum at Lord's, Agas, the first thing he said was he always wanted to play his best team every single opportunity. So they have moved away from this rotating their fast bowlers unless they absolutely have to. And the second thing is, if you pay attention to England's selection really closely over the past two years, they're very hierarchical in how they do things. They do seem to have an order. And so when they needed a fast bowler at the start of this summer, we knew Gus Atkinson was the next cab off the rank because he'd carry the drinks around India. As soon as Mark Wood was back in the squad last week and fit to play, he goes straight back in because England want to play him at every possible opportunity. I think they see Mark Wood actually right now as their number one first choice fast bowler. And the other thing, a number of years ago, Agas, do you remember the test match here against the West Indies when England rested pretty much their entire fast bowling attack? It was Tina Best's test match, wasn't he, when he got, was he in that '98? - '95. '95 he got, and that, we sort of said at the time, doesn't feel right that they've done that. It didn't actually play out all that well. I was quite angry about it and got called into Andy Flour's office for a telling off. I said, "I'm really sorry, but I said what I believe about selection." The test caps, you know, an injury and form and fitness and tired. This is all part of playing international sport. But not just resting people for the sake of it. And also, England have been accused this summer of kind of not playing their best team, you know, saying don't disrespect the West Indies and all that kind of stuff. And now they are picking what they deem to be their best team. I also don't, people are a bit upset about Woke's getting, he's played all three games of the series after Jimmy's been retired. And it's almost as if they've been bracketed together. And I, as much as for so much emotion around Jimmy's enforced retirement. And it is a bit sad. I am sad, but I'm never going to watch him bowl through England again. But Woke's six years younger than him. They're not in the same age bracket, they are a long way apart in age. Last summer, Woke's was a man of a series in the ashes, having only come in midway through, took his wicket set about '19, I think. Jimmy took his wicket at 85 last summer, Woke's has earned this spot in this team, I think. And by after he's obviously had a tough start for summer. He needed that bowl. He needed a bowl, exactly. But at Trent Bridge, he looked up to back to maybe not quite the level of last summer, but getting there. And I'm glad that Woke's has been given this, I think the space in England's attack as much as they might be looking towards the ashes. I think we're in space for one kind of home specialist over next two summers. Next summer is really important against India. Woke's will be 36 then, so maybe in conventional terms, he's coming towards the end, we would say, as a fast bowler. But Jimmy and Prawny have obviously redefined what we think about that. But I think we're in space for one guy to leave the attack at home. Yeah, a bit of a reliable type in conditions that might just suit a bit. You know he's going to bowl there and thereabouts. Exactly. Yeah. Woke's and Anderson do really different jobs in the team as well. And I can see why people have equated Woke's and Anderson. And particularly when Woke's got left out of the tour of India because of his away record, and England have been so naked about their planning for the ashes in 18 months time. And you say, well, if Woke doesn't go to India and he hasn't got a very good record away, why is he still in the team now? England need a number eight. And there's no obvious other candidate to do that. Now broad has gone. England might, if the England were going to change a spinner, they might have had Tom Hartley, they might have had Ray and Armand who were other candidates. They haven't gone that way. Bashir is a genuine number 10 or 11. And that's a really important role for Chris Woke's to play in this team. I was talking to some other journalists over a curry in Nottingham last week. And I said, I could actually see a way that Woke's does get to Australia. I could see a path for him there. I could see a role in a squad of five or six fast bowlers that Woke's would do that job. Day night game. Day night game. Someone's going to have to bowl some donkey overs if Joffra Archer and Mark Wood are in the same team. So someone's going to have to bowl, someone's going to have to bat at number eight. I could see Woke's doing that job. Not saying that he will, not necessarily saying it's a good idea. But it's not absolutely out of the question that Woke's isn't needed to perform that role. I was talking to Ben Stokes about the team being unchanged. And let's see what he had to say to me earlier today. When you look at how we performed over the first two games, it's pretty hard to to lot past any changes. I think we've been too very, very impressive all-round team performances. So yeah, we're looking to cup off this series as another one. I hesitate to use the word beauty contest with those involved, but there's kind of a feeling that those upcoming fast bowlers might all get a bit of a go. I just had to wait. Yeah, it is. And I think, as well, having Matty Potts and Dylan Pennington around the group, although they've not got an opportunity, I think it's been great for them to be into the squad and just get the vibe around because it has been a long time. For Matthew, who's been out at the squad and obviously Dylan's first time. So yeah, it's great for them, but obviously no doubt there will be an opportunity in the summer because fast bowling's hard. We've got another, we've got a break, but no doubt 100 will be played. And then, none of the three test matches, so yeah, it will be highly unlikely that all of the fast bowlers will be able to sort of back up games, but in a perfect world, that would be great as well if they could. Yeah, it's also, I mean, so like Atkinson, for instance, it would perhaps feel a bit wrong to give him a rest. I mean, he's going, he's flying, he's taking a wicket, and you need to have integrity with selection from that point of view. Yeah, a little gust has been phenomenal, I think, when he, as he's came into the team, obviously his lowest debut was just sensational. And last week again as well, he's always looked threatened with every spell that he's bold. And he's, you know, he showed why we think so highly of them. Obviously, what are you coming back in last week just added that, that X factor into the team. And it's great having, you know, two guys who you can turn to to try and blow the game open when you feel like the time is right to do that. So yeah, having two guys, you can ball as quickly as those two is great. I imagine Mike was dining out on that 97 mile an hour loosener, isn't he? How do they do that? That must be a speed gun job, isn't it? No, it's lit, it is 97 mile an hour. When the speed comes up on the side, it's, you know, it's quick. Even when he comes back, you know, after, you know, even second and third spells in the day, you just got to hold your hands up and just sort of, to know, celebrate what we have there. He's got a heart of a lion, he runs in, spell after spell, ball after ball. And although he didn't get the rewards that he did, that he wanted last week, he knows that he affects the game in more ways than just wickets. And that showed last week. But yeah, as I said, at the end of last game, I think someone will pay the summer, whether that's Western, he's this game I should like to let you on in the summer. Yeah. And does it feel electric when he comes on? I mean, out there in the field? Yeah, it does. The whole game just sort of changes, you know, the crowd, when Mark Wood gets read out of the Tanoy, you see the crowd start going up and then when the speed starts coming with a big screen, everyone starts, gets going. Wood is always looking up at the big screen as well, to see what's clocking. But I think as well, that's, that's part of his place in the team as well, because he knows that he's in the team to not only bowl skillfully, but also fast. And that's why, you know, obviously Dylan and Potzi will, you know, no doubt get an opportunity because if Wood is not feeling 100%, it's sort of, is there any point in playing him because of why he's in the team, if that makes sense? So, and yeah, what he does is very tough on the body as well. You can only beat what you're up against and you've handed out two pretty serious thrashings so far. What do you think you've really taken out of these two test matches? Well, I think you look, although it looks too nil and, you know, pretty comprehensive wins, I think we've actually, at times we've been put under pressure as a batting unit and as a bowling unit. And one thing I've been very happy with is how we've handled those, how we've identified those moments. I think Joe and Brookie on the evening of day three, that partnership was high class and very, very tough batting conditions. The lights were on, it was dark and obviously they got the ball changer start to do a little bit. So you look at the end of the day, we could easily have been six, seven down there if we didn't, you know, sort of adapt to that sort of hour and a half to our session. Again, with the ball 70 for none on day four, to then, you know, bounce back and take our 10 wickets for I think another 70 runs. It's shown that we have been put under pressure, but the response that we've given back to West Indies in those critical moments in the test match I think has been high class. You seem in a good place at the moment. I mean two years in for your captain's. How do you think that's evolved in those two years? Yeah, really good. Obviously, from a personal point of view, it's great to be back contributing and bowling as well. But just, you know, just a general deceiving in the field, everything feels really, really good. Cut and see wise, yeah, look, it's all encouraging everyone to go out there and, you know, as I say, like entertain people. But I think we've had a huge progression that always needs a team, but as individuals, everyone works incredibly hard at their game day in day out. And it's one thing I keep saying, when we do train, make sure we're always trying to get better and never be happy where you're at. So that's Ben Stokes, who is in good form, actually. He's walking around with a huge smile on his face. It's been transformed having had this knee sorted out. I mean, you think how he used to hold our breath when he watched him run to the boundary of the ball last year. He's just completely different. It's a bit stiff in the morning sometimes. So there you go. So that was interesting. I'm sure Bashia then. I mean, what a performance that was. Are we surprised? I don't know. He does seem a very quick learner. I don't feel tough when he was watching him and the line that he was bowling. He struck as being a very inexperienced sort of, almost like a second team bowler to start with, because it was so straight. And it was just very easy to flick away. But actually come out second of the things. We've already been talking to him. That fourth stump line opens up all those possibilities. I mean, he's a rare talent, isn't he? It's tall as well, and really extraordinary. He's so tall. He's so lengthy. Yeah. It's an extraordinary story, really. You know, I think someone said the other day that the last time England had won a test series, Bashia literally just signed his first terms with Somerset as a professionally. He hadn't played a professional game or anything like that. And last summer, Stokes saw that video on Twitter of him bowling. Sir Alice Cook and thought, "I want to have a look at this guy. They took him on the Lions Tour. He boiled very nicely there. They had a lot of young bowlers on that Lions Tour." And he was kind of the pick of them. And then he ends up in India. And I think I remember in India when we'd made it into the country and showed Bashia hadn't, because he had that visa issue. I think I probably at that stage was just not thinking he was a realistic candidate to play much of a part of a series. But if there he was, by the second test, he was straight into the side. A mittily leach had picked up an injury. But he just looked, you know, first over in India, I just felt like this guy was a bowl. Immediately thought, you know, Hartley was bowling quite nicely, but it's sort of darts and it's flatter and a bit more maybe specifically for that tour. And Ray and Armand are a bit a little bit all over the place. Very fun, cricketer, but not terribly refined. Now Bashia isn't refined at all, but he is clearly so much to work with. And you can see him improving all the time. He's been very closely coached by Jeet and Patel. I mean, people have joked over the years about why England have a spin bowling coach when quite often they haven't picked spinners in recent years. But now it's kind of playing off you even see Jeet and Patel down on the boundary at fine leg and chatting to Bashia between overs. And he is getting better. I mean, those two wickets he got in the first innings at Trent Bridge. Well, he was probably bought them by Mark Wood by his fearsome stuff at the other end. But the wickets in the second innings, most of them were proper off spinners wickets in the fourth innings when the pressure's on him. And I thought he boiled beautifully. The go back to the start of that India tour when we were on the boundary edge in Hyderabad before the first test and we got told show Bashia is not in the country and we sort of shrugged our shoulders and well, he wasn't going to play anyway. And I think actually it made more ripples back here as a story as a more of like a wider news story than it did from a cricket pinpoint of you. We were like, we'd even been told the prime minister was involved. Absolutely. But we'd sort of been told when the squad was picked he was kind of going for experience and he played ultimately because Leach did get injured. Then he really impressed. What's fascinating about what England are trying to do with Bashia is they've identified the attributes that he's got and sometimes we say, oh, he's tall and he's got a high release point and that's that's the only thing. It's not. He's obviously very skillful, but they're sort of hot housing a spin bowler in test cricket. They're getting into learn on the job with some of the coaching that Will mentioned with Jeet and Patel. The thing that they've really identified, I think, or think that I like about him looking ahead to the ashes is that temperament because if you think of maybe the way that Jack Leach suffered on the last tour that plenty of England spinners have actually suffered with in Australia, you know that Australia are going to look to eat him for breakfast. They are coming for him. This is a bowler that was hit for 38 in an over by Dan Lawrence earlier in the season. Ben Stokes was saying to us after the match at Trent Bridge, he gets hit for six. He turns around, kind of got a bit of a smile on his face. He's completely unflappable and he is going to need every little bit of that unflappability if if and when he makes it to Australia. Yeah. I mean, even the fact that when he got hit for those sixes, he was out on loan from Somerset. He was prepared to go and do that to get some cricket. I think that unflappability was even seen during the visa problem. In India, he just took it in his drive. He was a 20-year-old lad being sent back to London from Abu Dhabi because he couldn't get into India. I actually think I'd have been pretty flustered by that situation, but he turned up and he played in the next test match. He seemed absolutely fine. So it was clearly a character there that they like. They do select on attributes and they're not too worried about how much someone's playing for their county, and they've picked some of the second. He needs to play. He needs to play first-class cricket. So is there going to be some sort of breaking point? And I use the same thing with Jamie Smith as well. I mean, if he's going to keep Wicked in Pakistan, he's got to do some wicked-keeping, isn't he? Red Bull Cricket, surely. Yes. But if these guys are going to remain today's in the England test team, how many opportunities are they going to have? Well, not many. But when they're available? Absolutely. I think that's probably only a problem that's going to come about maybe at the start of next season. If you look to the rest of this season, after this test match, we're going into the 100. By the time the county championship comes around again, we're into the Sri Lanka series. There's only a few weeks after the Sri Lanka series finishes before guys go to Pakistan. So they'll be rested. You're absolutely right. And you wonder how this is going to play out. And Somerset have already had that situation in the past when Don Bess was playing for England. But Jack Leak was already at Somerset. In fact, it always happens at Somerset. The keepers, always at Joss Butler move from Somerset. It always seems to happen there. They must produce very good cricketers. The... You mentioned Tuffers before. You know, he probably would say I didn't get to my peak as a spinner until he was in his 30s. He took 1,000 first-class wickets or whatever he took. England have got a 20-year-old who is... They're asking him to learn on the job in Test Cricket. It's an extraordinary situation. Maybe it's just the way of the modern world. But it is strange. Let's mention the wind is before we go. What can they do? It is sad. I don't mean in a condescending way. But they did show what they've got at Trembridge. And then they also showed what they haven't got. All those frailties exposed again. They just felt once they're coupled down. They can get blown away tonight. And I wonder if they feel that as well themselves if confidence is so short. Possibly. I mean, the Lords was tough viewing, wasn't it? They were completely undercooked. And then at Trembridge for the three and a half days, they did compete really well for three days really. England were 200-ish ahead going into the fourth day and just turned the screw on the fourth day. You know, they had Cavum Hodge get 100, other guys getting runs. They looked like they were growing into the series. You would hope that they will continue that improvement. You're right. That was the first test for England ever scored 400 in both innings and it was one of the very few, the first three innings of the match were all above 400. And then that pressure just told, didn't it? England were the better team. And then they all fell apart for the windies on the final day. I mean, Craig Brathwaite today and his press conference was talking about the fact that they have five more test matches this year. And for them, that seems quite a lot. England have actually got, what is it? They've got three more, three match series. They've got nine more and we don't even think about that being, we think it's quite a lot, but it's just normal. So they, you know, they just don't have the volume of test matches. So they almost will be thinking in this game about building into those ones and keeping on improving. You know, I think it's clear from that first innings at Trembridge that there is some talent in that batting line. Hodge was brilliant. Afanaz was, butted really nice. He's a really stylish player. Kirk McKenzie's clue kept his place. He's the one who you'd say has really struggled at number three, but there is something there. They just don't, haven't had the opportunity. And so that again, it's a bit like the Sheeran in a very different way, but they are learning the job. The trouble is four of the top five are all learning the job at the same time. What you would say is you'd hope for the same amount of improvement between Nottingham and Birmingham as there was between Lords and Nottingham. And if the West Indies can pull that off, then we should be in for a really, really good week. And after three days at Trembridge, we all left going, this has been a fantastic test match. We were kind of fearful for the spectacle of the series after what happened at Lords. They were pretty specific circumstances, I think, with James Anderson's Test Match Emonial. And then on the, on that pitch at Trembridge, the West Indies did compete much harder for much longer. What I would say about the West Indies though, let's not forget what they've already done this year, which is shocking Australia at the Gabber. They've got four for pulling off shock results in this country. Let's not forget what happened at Heddingley. And so to bring our conversation full circle, it is exactly right that England have there for kept their team as strong as they possibly could to not take the West Indies lightly that they were sort of being accused of at the start of the summer when they said, oh, we're planning for the ashes and for England to want to go and win that game or to win this test match and to win the series three nil. Because for as much as you point it out to Ben Stokes and he gets a bit cross about when we say, oh, you haven't won a series since the end of 2022? Well, they haven't. And now they have. And now they can win a series three nil. And they might not get to the World Test Championship final, but they were bottom of that table before this series began. And they can climb that. And so it is right. I think they win tomorrow. Something like that. And I think they could end up in the top three by the end of the summer, very unlike that they're going to get into the top two ahead of Australia in India. But these are all things that keep the integrity of Test Cricket high. These are things that we want England to do to be at their best to take everything seriously whilst at the same time we want the West Indies to show the same improvement. And for this week to be every bit as good as good as last week was certainly for those first three days. Yeah, last week. We must mention the 100, which is starting up. For me, the old tradition list. Yeah, the ramps in your sixes, but there's nothing more compelling than watching 97 mile our fast bowling for me. I mean, this is a chance again for Test Cricket to remind everybody that for these new tournaments, actually that the object of these new tournaments were told, necessarily believe it, were told is to protect and preserve this. And we had a glimpse really of what that sort of compelling fast bowling viewing is like last week. Absolutely, you know, 100 is designed as I think it's got two purposes for the people who run the game. One is as a gateway drug to get new fans into the game, young kids. And I was at the Oval the other night and well, afternoon as well. And there were lots of young kids having a great time at the Oval and that was very pleasing to see. It's also there to make money and prop up everything else, whether domestically or globally. But yeah, there is nothing like a test match. Even in a game which England won by hundreds of runs the other day, as you say, there were moments where it was, you know, there's nothing else in sport like it. And there's Olympics coming up and I'd still rather be here. So it's actually a brilliant week, brilliant time for cricket overall. So you've got this test match here, Islander Plains in Barbway in a test match, which started today, the 100, if that's your thing. And also the one day cup has just started as well. And there's some great stories in that tournament this year. Keep an eye out for Rocky Flintoff, keep an eye out for Archie Vaughn, those guys making their senior county debuts. My house, you feel real? Yeah. My hope is always it's not just that these things become divisive that it has to be test cricket or the 100 or whatever for cricket fans just to see that these things can rub along together. And we can all enjoy, enjoy the great game and enjoy all the different things that are going on at this part of the year. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B. But with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. I'm Nicole Berry, host of Skin Queries, a podcast brought to you by Ruby Studio from iHeart Media. Can we talk about how incredible our skin is? It's our protector, while also serving as a lit mistest as to how our body is functioning physically and emotionally. Let's unravel the mysteries around our skin and get to the heart of how to make everybody glow from the inside out. Listen to Skin Queries on America's #1 podcast network iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Skin Queries. Thanks to Stefan and Will here at Edgebaston. Let's get the thoughts of some of the test match special commentators who are working with us here at Edgebaston over the next few days. Henny Moran has been speaking to Carlos Brathate and Stephen Finn. Stephen, first of all, I'm not quite sure what to expect. It was such a dominant display from England in the first game and then West Indies fought back before it all fell away again in the second. I thoroughly enjoyed watching those first three and a half days of the second test match and it can happen like that when you lose those three quick wickets after you set a platform. It can fall away quickly in that last inning, so I don't think you can read too much into that, but certainly the West Indies look better for having had the runout at Lords, which seems extraordinary to talk about an actual test match. Like that, I suppose slightly surprisingly for me England have decided to play an unchanged team in this third test when with the retirement of James Anderson and the wanting to blood players to make sure that they're ready for that ashes series in 18 months time. I thought they may have seen this as an opportunity to get a test match into someone like Pennington or another one into Matthew Potts who hasn't played since well over a year in test match cricket now, isn't it? So yeah, there's going to be some interesting caveats to this game, but I hope that the West Indies turn up battle hard and after those first two tests ready to put on a show because we know that they're capable from what we saw in that second test. Coming in Carlos, what's been the word inside the West Indies camp after after that second test match? Because it was much better. I guess I wouldn't say it was the word because I haven't done like a proper post-mortem lead any of the boys, but from my personal standpoint, I tend to just run off the gas. You're so hard they've fought over the first two and a half days and I just think a lack of skill, not necessarily a lack of will was the ongoing of them and I think that is why we love test cricket because it's not only the ability to perform for a short period of time, but it's against the best in the most trying conditions and for a prolonged period of time when you can lose a match in a session and they would think that they lost the first test essentially in the first session for sure the first day and they'll look back to the last test and think they lost it in that final session on the fourth day. So how can they continue to show the skill, the graft, the will that they showed in the first three days, but try to get that to the end of the fourth day, into the fifth day and I'm one of the old school believers that you have to learn to draw test matches before you can win them and if you think back to A.B. de Villiers and Hashem Amla, they were able to put aside all their attacking intent in one of the tests and I think A.B. got 27 off 200 or something more, they speak on the correction, but it's that ability to withstand pressure, absorb more momentum and take a test match five days culminating in a draw and then you be able to do that consistently, you know into shift gears and change that draw into win. I certainly don't think the rest of these are good enough consistently to be able to get draws against the best teams, especially away from home, but they've shown a lot of improvement from lords, they've shown that the performers at the gabbos not afloat and that they have something in them, they take the challenge for them noise to do it more consistently. The prospect of a draw in a test match? Not one that involves England, I don't think. It's fast forward cricket between test matches, we've had the usual hyperbole from England about how they might score 500 or 600 in a day, I think it was from Ollie Pope, the vice captain, wasn't it, but seeing both teams pushing back against each other is something that you want to see in test matches, the pictures at Edge Baston, a few of the tests that I've played there, especially with the weather conditions that we've had in the last few weeks, there tends to be a bit of bounce, a bit of nibble on that first morning especially, so if we do get that expect, the West Indies seem as to cause some problems for that England top order and then I think that sort of start to the game will make it a fascinating test match. West Indies, we will see changes, we know that Goodish Modi is going to be fit again, possibly, Shamar Jo's is missing out with Flu Akim Jordan on standby to take his place, so what do we expect from this West Indies line-up? He's a big boost to have back. Yeah, mortise quality, but ball in the field, I think also as a competitor, and a member of Montpauville T20 skipper, albeit a different format, we talked so much about matchups and he was saying that he doesn't mind balling Morty to the left hand, which is a good match up, even letting the left hand into the win mortise or clever, so I think in tricky conditions, when you need your best line-ups, Morty's definitely the best spinner in the Caribbean, and they'll be happy to have his services again. Shamar Jo's if I think he came into the series a little bit on the cut and in hindsight, obviously hindsight made 2020, I think there'll be a few questions asked if it would have been better served for him to come play a comfy cricket. Akim Jordan is a curious case because he was on that trip to Australia, he lost his play in the Barbados team during first class, would have made some technical amendments, someone that I speak to quite often plays at my local club in Barbados as well, and he felt as though he really phoned himself coming onto the back end of the first-class season, then once Shamar Jo's pulled out, I think most persons in the Caribbean thought, if you had this guy on tour in Australia already, then he'll be the next one in, but from Akim Jordan, what you can expect, not the quickest, but swings the ball both ways, impeccable control, so he would form a different challenge I think, Jason Holder and him will probably be those two workhorse type bowlers, and allowing Alsari to come in and have a bigger impact, Jada Seals has been good with the older ball, they'll need a lot more from him with the new ball, but if they do have Akim Jordan, then that's a straight swap with the new ball, gave Akim the new ball, allowing him to peer with Alsari Joseph and then Jada Seals and Jason Holder follows up with multi-coming behind him, and I think that's a formidable enough attack that can continue to take wickets, which is one thing the coach mentioned, they want to be taking 10 wickets in 90 overs, and they did that in the first innings, can they replicate it with a better catching and fielding performance? Forget 10 wickets in 90 overs, the thing that got 19 wickets against West Indies in a single day, in the day night test of 2017, Finney, what's this surface likely to offer, you've had great success there? Yeah, I think it very much depends on how much grass the groundsman decides to leave on there, I think if it is a grassy pitch, then you can expect it to carry, you can expect it to nibble around and bounce, an ashes test in 2015 was almost the perfect fast bowling wicket, and expect lots of wickets to fall if we get something like that with the amount that it's rained and how lush these grounds are at the moment, then I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, but if somehow it is a dry surface, it can offer the spinners a little bit of something, and I remember it reversed swinging there a little bit as well over the years, a game against Pakistan in 2016, and it reversed swung big in a test match there, so yeah, it's a very versatile wicket, expect the Holley stand to be in full voice, that's a magnificent thing to experience as an England player, and yeah, that I'd imagine that this game will be relatively fast-paced whichever way it goes. Looking forward to it, Carlos, Stephen, thank you very much. So in-play highlights will be available on the BBC Sport website on the app, and the daily highlights show today that the test will be on the BBC iPlayer from 7pm each night, and of course, test match special will bring you ball-by-ball commentary on five sports extra and BBC sounds, starting at 10.25 on Friday morning. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. This is the story of one of the biggest football clubs in the world, Paris Saint-Germain, and how two teammates became bitter enemies. This spent holidays together, Keira and Aminata was friends. That rocked the club to its foundations and left lives, careers and reputations in ruins. Does anyone choose stuff like Keira? The way the police is talking about her, it's absolutely shocking. Join me, Maisie Adam, for Sport's Strangest Crimes, a French football scandal. Betray or plot. We've gone beyond women's football in France. Listen on BBC Sounds. 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