Did you want to be an astronaut when you were a kid like every other kid? No, never never ever because no you're joking. There's that thing about g forces. I get sick on boats I get sick in cars. No absolutely not. Did you did you want to be enough? I was determined. I was 70 years old. I was determined. I was going to be an astronaut. Yeah Is there much of a space program in England? No, no at all Welcome to Earth everyone and welcome to the two-year-old cinema club. My name is Andrei Florente And I am James Zieke Every episode every kind of episode on the two real cinema club. We watch two movies We watch a new movie we watch an old movie then we compare a with B and tonight we are going to the moon Which was and now I'm all right. That was the slogan for that roaring kitty movie Wasn't it dumb money that we watched last year to the moon and that's been echoing around my my head We're still fulfilling that promise this episode and I guess we're not going to Mars Yes, pointedly not going to Mars. We are watching people going to two astronomical bodies tonight We have watched fly me to the moon, which is the new Apple feature film With Scarlett Johansson and Channing Tatum, which is on the sides of all the buses here in the UK And we are comparing it to oh boy. I was gonna say Mars one. No Capricorn one 1977 classic. I do you have a st. Capricorn bomb? No, I'm still very confused because I think last I need to know that you and I off the pod perhaps talked about that I had seen a film about Space landings that might not be legit and I thought it was a 90s film and then I started watching Capricorn one and I realized no I've never seen this film I've seen all of its stars that it's one of the things where you put a team of stars together and maybe they're weaker than they are as individuals So less than the sum of their parts that's the expression exactly so now I hadn't seen it But I was happy to put it on and we'll talk about that one But we usually talked about the new film first talk about this new film fly me to the moon 2004 Directed by now. This is new to me Greg Burlanti Who sound like a bunch of rom-coms, isn't that right? Quick correction first 2024. I think you said 2004. Oh did I know that's okay. I'll change it with the magic We are ahead of our times There's no doubt about that But at the same time we want to make sure that we're doing a new film to the other people out there listening to us Greg Burlanti looks like his credits are more of as a writer famously of Green Lantern But Dawson's Creek which was a big sort of Probably there as well. I think I think it did exist on UK TV. I never watched it I think he was a launching pad for I want to say Michelle Williams and other actors of That era, right? Okay. It was a big hit. I've seen a couple episodes Not my cup of tea as a middle-aged man, but if I were a younger guy maybe I'd Appreciate it more Interestingly written by Rose Gilroy Who I'd never heard of until I looked her up. Do you know who Rose Gilroy is? Rose Gilroy. Oh my god She's not we don't call people Nepo babies here. Do we? She is the niece of Tony Gilroy. Yes. He's the daughter of Renee Russell. I Have no idea how she managed to get her start in show business and Dan Gilroy is her father. So yeah, that's right Okay, so these are film people Tony Gilroy. Of course did Michael Michael Clayton Michael Clayton. Yeah, yeah Rotten directed that I think he wrote some born pictures too, but we're already away from the actual writer The writer is as you said Rose Gilroy credit he credited with Bill Kirstein who's actually a cinematographer. So I think I don't know if was the story by Keenan Flynn and Bill Kirstein And then screenplay was Rose Gilroy. It was something like that. I can check the IMDB quickly, but Yep, I don't think she had any major credits that I recognized before that I think she may have been an actor before this. Okay, but Good for her. Yeah Yeah, what nice to get a script made a bunch of different around a hundred million is what the Internet tells me Box also office off around 30 so far. Oh But I don't think Apple is short of a few Bob. No, and apparently would go to the TV. I suppose after the Cinematic yeah, well, do you want to start by telling us the story? I'll tell you. Yes. There's usually a little bit of music that comes first Oh, there it is Okay, so fly me to the moon features Scarlet Johansson as Kelly Jones Channing Tatum as Cole Davis and Woody Harrelson is there as Mo Berkus It also features Ray Romano as Henry Smalls an engineer at NASA with where Channing Tatum is an engineer and astronaut and Jim Rache as Lance Vespertini family flamboyant commercial director We'll hear from him later This opens on the moon pictures of the moon. This is where we want to go We see Sputnik passing us in space. That's the satellite that the Russians had launched before The Americans get into space We see earth and that is where the space is happening. So we start in outer space The stakes are high. It's the 1960s and at the beginning of the 60s JFK had made a goal for the nation of Reaching the moon Landing on the moon having a national lock on the moon and then return the To the moon to the earth safely by the end of the decade. So it's 1969. Actually, it's Christmas 1968 I believe when we start I was right conceived just a few months before this And expect to be that doesn't feature in the film No, they never mention it and I was birthed before they got to the moon. So I beat them But the clock is ticking because there's only little Slightly more than a year to get to the moon. Cole Davis is a serious former astronaut and NASA engineer working on the Apollo 11 program He's using his force of will to make it succeed because he is haunted by Losing his friends in the Apollo 1 tragedy For which he bears responsibility and feelings of guilt Kelly Jones that's um These carlature handsome character. She's a fast-talking marketer recruited by a shady government agent named Mo Birkis What do you know when you're here else in there to provide some safe backup? Like he wants fake film footage of a moon landing in case the Apollo 11 mission also fails like gets into space But doesn't really Have the ability to land on the moon so they're gonna have this backup plan Her task her immediate task is actually to humanize the NASA staff and sell the program to a U.S. Public that is tired of government spending and war in Vietnam But her biggest skeptic is the handsome Cole. That's again cheating at Jenny Tatum Who is serious to a fault and wants his program and his colleagues to be taken seriously and inexplicably keeps his shirt on for the entire film as well Ah and his he has colorful shirts It's funny because it looks like there's a dress code for everyone else in the film except the handsome star Lock colors. Yeah. Yeah, bright bright colors even though he's very serious everyone else is with it basically white button down shirt and a dark tie there were very few ties of color So he's handsome. Yes, but he's serious. He's sort of the straight guy in this film, which is a romantic comedy of sorts Kelly will need to keep her secret mission a secret from Cole from whom she also keeps other secrets of her past But will the secret come out with the hiring of advertisement director Lance Vespartine Who comes to shoot the fake moon landing? Very nearby as in the very next Basically, I think strategically if I were trying to hide something I'd go to the the next hangar after that at least at least put some effort in and Lance Vespartine is very flamboyant. So he is already out. He's does not have a secret to come up They make that very clear in the film and he drinks tab a lot of tab Will Apollo 11 also blow up? It doesn't we know that already We know Kelly and Cole's relationship suck us in and then blow up. Yes, of course It's a rom-com. So we know that already will Lance Vespartine manage to create usable footage of a fake moon landing Of course, we he will we've been looking at it for nearly 60 years, haven't we? And will to a list like actors kiss at the end of a summer blockbuster film I'm not saying another word. Oh spoilers I know that I didn't bear the spoiler didn't it? That's not good. You know what this film really reminded me of was that I Was and I was trying to kind of complete the metaphor in my head when I was a very small boy I had like a child's book with these kind of flipping ringbound pages that you would line up So they had like the head of a fireman and the body of a crow and you know that the feet of a fisherman I think you could flip the pages over and then you could create all sorts of weird and crazy combinations And I remember playing this with a boy and I thought this film It really kind of feels like another version of that book. It's like someone in Apple has got a book with like you know 40 40 different actors in and a number of scenarios and so and so you know this time they flip the pages and we've got Scarlett Johansson and Channing Tatum in a flip-flip rom-com Flip-flip about the moon. Oh, there we go. Okay, that's that's what it is But equally they could have flipped the pages and we could have had Gwyneth Paltrow and flip-flip-flip-flip-chris pine Flip-flip-flip-flip-flip in a drama flip-flip-flip-flip-flip about fertility clinics I mean could be you could be kind of you know anything it really and any of these seem about as plausible as any other So I did go into this film imagining that it was a pretty cynical by the numbers Rom-com that someone had tossed a coin and decided okay, we got you know, we can afford these two actors We need a rom-com. It's going to be about um, um, um, I know the moon landings right go but Having started out so cynically, I must say I got to the end of the credits in this movie and I decided I actually quite enjoyed it. There's a little bit of light charm to this film It's actually frothy and fairly enjoyable and pleasant to watch. I had a nice time for two hours Is it high art? I don't think it is Does it have something particularly profound to say don't think it does but you know, it was actually a perfectly nice Tuesday afternoon at the cinema. I enjoyed it. I love it when we ask questions and we answer them by ourselves immediately It's like I'm practicing for the presidential debates, haven't it? Yeah, I agree I had no serious problems with this film. It's it. It doesn't take itself seriously I agree with you that there are just lots of tone and genre shifts and changes that They're jarring It's a sign that I don't think it was super well thought out or planned But nothing is terribly offensive. It's an inoffensive film. I think for them They should put that on the poster. Yes And in offensive feel in a time where there was an in offensive feel I thought it was quite yeah He was light and fluffy to what he said frothy, right? And you brought the guy enjoyed two hours Yeah, if it had been two and a half hours, then it would have been a disaster If it had been hour and thirty or hour and forty five minutes Might have been a classic. I don't know. Yeah, could it get could have been even better. Um, yeah, and when we When we compared to the other films and I think some some strengths of this film will come out But yeah, yeah, I hired it. It ain't you're right. I'm gonna do my usual trick now of Proving that I've learned my lesson and talk about the opening image. Oh, yeah, because once again I think the opening image of this film Effectively tells you sort of everything you really need to know about the coming two hours in so far as the opening image of this film Is a collage? Is it not? Yeah, I think this film starts with like lots of images and Newspapers and some historical footage and some animations all kind of collaged together to form like the the opening of the movie and That I think explains what this film is because this film I thought was a collage a collage of Apollo 13 And some mad men if you ever watched that. Yeah, and some Capricorn one Which is the other film on tonight's bill Yeah, so I think it kind of takes a few pages and a few images from all of those And just sort of splats them all down together and sculpts a film out of them. This film is a collage and it's it's a collage of some enjoyable and successful Anticidants is it antecedent or antecedent? Oh, we've done this before every yeah, you probably told me the correct answer I don't know. I'm gonna go to pronunciation.com after this podcast. I think it's antecedents But again, there are differences between our countries and that's fine. I accept them and alcohol and ancestors so they're kind of at least a good films to Use as a springboard for your own film, but it doesn't add an enormous amount on top of those I think no I think it underscores the fact that this is Unoriginal it's not new ground Um, it doesn't do anything other than entertain us, which is what a summer film should do Um, and it should make it's money too. So I'm a little bit worried about that. That's uh Should be doing more money, but as you said apple can afford to lose a few bob and then they'll have it on the streaming and that'll attract people I don't know how the whole systems work anymore How does a hundred million dollar film that does 30 million in the theaters actually make money? I can only assume that there is some clever kind of tax write-off Which means that the streaming services make money out of it somewhere. Yeah, or laundering Or better yet. It's a meta. It's like they never actually made the film so they didn't even spend the hundred million dollars in the first place They'd just had some sort of uh a I generate Two hours worth of video for us to watch and it happened to work this time Hey, Siri write me a screenplay. Yes Um, it's it's clear that rose gillroy has has bought and read her screenwriting books because it's you know pretty traditionally structured as yet I did I did know to kind of a couple of things that they have a meat cute in a restaurant Which is kind of a bit of a turning point for the film that happens at exactly 10 minutes in um And uh, you know the kind of the act breaks are all kind of fairly clearly delineated, aren't they? That uh, You know, we have a middle section where there are allies and there are um, kind of enemies to defeat And then there is a kind of an all-is-loss moment and you know, she initially refuses the call We have all of these kind of all of these beats. Yeah, um, you know, they're kind of hitting the mark It's a very traditionally structured script. Yeah, and there are some fairly traditional character journeys as well I got to the end of the movie and I was thinking well, you know, this is effectively a dual protagonist movie Yes, um and each character has to have their own journey. What were the journeys and they're not not difficult to figure out I'm a little bit more convinced by Kelly Jones's journey. She's scarred Johansson's character. She starts out someone who um lies, you know entirely constantly Um, her story is largely stolen from mad men in fact But she's somebody who who is, you know, convincing and charismatic and it's very good lie And she lies about everything and so her character journey is that she has to learn to tell the truth You know, and that is what she does at the start of the third act and she comes clean to coal and then she has to um, you know undo some of the damage that her lies Have caused and save the day so her character journey fairly straightforward Cole's character journey Well, I think it's that he's he's um a bit of a Hardass is he I mean, he's he's kind of he's he cannot relax And he's way too sort of hyper vigilant and too guilty and too worried and too exacting You know, and his and his character journey is he has to kind of go with the flow and let go a little bit But I must say I personally wasn't to talk convinced with the about the idea that You know a good character change for someone who is mission control for nasa is that they need to just let things go Stop concentrating on the details because that's like the most important thing, isn't it? Yeah Um, so you know the end of the movie he demonstrates his character journey because he gets one of his engineers sports Should we ring the spoiler bell? I think I should have done it. I got a minute to go. Yeah. Oh, I've already Oh, no, I've already blown it. I think it's spoiler. But here it is So so at the at the end of the end of the movie he has to get one of his engineers to install a completely untested TV camera that's used parts that have been cannibalized from a stolen sony tv Um, you know, and then the guy has to run up and install it on the capsule just before takeoff Um, and uh, you know, and that's supposed to be like a really positive character moment for him Whereas surely that is the opposite. That's an utter disaster for anybody who's whose responsibility is the safety of Of astronauts in the air and ground crew on the ground. Yeah, it's a bit of a strange strange character moment It's a moment that has to happen for the sake of the story, but not for the real world Yeah, and you're right. I think it's definitely a dual protagonist filmed by by well by the end certainly but um Um, and it's one of these things where they each learn something or borrow something from the other Called basically learns how to lie in some ways from kelly or at least how to sell things, right? She's a seller and they have to buy these senators votes and there's this compelling scene where he sits down with the senator and God, I think he even invokes it's it's snake oil stuff. He invokes God at that point too. I believe in order to get his vote uh to fund nasa Um, and then kelly started to learn from coal how to take space seriously and how to pull off a moon landing but she also sort of learns how to Own up to the truth tell the truth it's this these sort of opposing arcs in some way and they're on the journey together and they learn something from each other Yikes, um I think you know we talk about here's journey a lot and I think if you're a writer and you've studied those books These films become a little painful because they're just so obvious that they're hitting these these steps in this formula about how to write a story and how to write a script Um, I think for for movie audiences they sense it too because they always know what's going to happen Um because we've just seen these things again and again and again. So for me, you know the interesting films are the ones that yeah You might take that structure to begin with but you got to break it and then do something different In order to have any originality. So I think your your earlier comment just about how they're borrowing so much from so many different films I think is spot on and and as a result, you know, it's it's it's a pleasant enough film and it rolls right by You've got, you know, pretty good big name actors in there like to carry it and they do a good job Um, but it's not yeah, it's not earth. Oh, it's not earth shattering. It's not earth leaving. It's a space film that leaves us on earth Ah That's good Um, I'm gonna I'm gonna rise to your science puns by pointing out another Science parallels. The film starts with a chemistry lesson. I suppose as far as Coles first Act on screen is that he's looking for a hydrogen leak You know, and he explains to one of the engineers or one of the engineers explains to him something like oh, yeah hydrogen You can't see it and you can't smell it. How are we going to detect it? It's like a little little bit of high school chemistry tossed in there but Um, the thing I wrote in my notes here By the end of the film I I personally felt that one of the big failings of the film is that it's a chemistry free Romance. I personally did not detect a great deal of chemistry. Oh between chatting tatum and and Scarlett Johansson I love that. Why do you only get to that? That's fantastic. Yeah, and I I do worry about the The science lessons that we do get. I don't know how true that is and I'm never going to be in that position where I have to um Put out a fire with a broom with lots of dangerous things that are about to explode all them around me But there's this um you get there there are moments of excellence to introduce both characters She has this massive pitch to the Ford company on their release of their new Mustang that she's uh You know talking them. She's basically charming them with her language and and her deceit ultimately And he's yeah showing how brave he is and there's a lot of as he said the fire kind of is in there at the beginning to introduce him Um, it's there when he introduces himself to her because he's putting out the fire on her table in the restaurant. Yeah, meet cute Um, there's fire in a tragic sense too because um, he feels this uh Uh guilt because I think the Apollo one Astronauts died in the capsule and there was smoke and fire coming out of there and of course in a in any Rocket launching film you've got fire everywhere. So there's definitely lots of fire um that serves I guess as a metaphor for Romance or sexual interest sometimes, but you're right the chemistry is not really there The fire is not there and for a rom-com or and I don't know if it's supposed to be rom-com but for for this kind of film with dual protagonist structure and these two a-list actors who have to To come together at the end. Um, there's not a whole lot of chemistry I agree with you and they seem like very different characters the opposite attracts thing can sometimes work. It doesn't feel very very electric here And scratch your head since husband is in the film at 1.2. I always wondered like mum looks like that must be Interesting. Oh, yeah, that completely passed me by who is I should know this She's an embarrassing who's got your hands. She's married to Colin Yoast with who was um, he's on Saturday Nightlife. Yeah, okay. He does the week. He needs like a head writer on the program He's one of the he's a very gullible senator that they're pitching to there's this one room where they're With um scarlet and Channing are showing him slides and he's falling for he loves he's gonna They win his vote So is he he's the guy with the killer lunar laser eliminator? Possibly. Yeah Okay Okay, that's actually one of the better gags in the film. So now I am not surprised if the the SNL writer gave himself one of the best gags Yeah, and she's you know, I I do wonder about the script how this you know, like how this film generated Did she have a spec script and it got into Scarlett Johansson's hand. She's one of the producers in the film. Um, you know, how exactly it Emerged it's it's not like a necessary film. I think it was interesting in the sense that it was 55 years Um after the actual moon landing they kind of released it right around that time. There seems to be some Intention about how it was produced or released, but um Did we need this film desperately? It doesn't seem super timely. I agree. It's not maybe not necessarily the most important moment I mean, I think the film is trying to touch on some contemporary Themes and it's certainly it's it's trying to have an opinion about science versus religion Although it can't quite say what it wants whether it wants to say anything about that. I think it just points out that there is you know a Conflict that is difficult to resolve between science and religion Um, I I guess it's saying something about the expectations of women. Isn't it? It's saying something about conspiracy, I guess which we're which we will probably talk about with capricorn one and which is sort of a current idea as well, but not sure that any of the themes are particularly Unusually timely No one thing that is worth Pointing out. I think I and I feel like I often say this about the films. I did really enjoy the production design Um, you know, it's it's a you know fairly cute slightly cartoony 1960s. Yeah, you know, it's sort of realistic, but not realistic I can I feel like I recognize Some of Scarlett Johansson's clothes and her hairstyles from things that my mother would wear when I was very little. Yeah Um, you know, and I'm assuming that you know the UK well We would have been sort of five years behind us fashion So I you know, I sort of have vague memories of my mother and her friends having some clothes and outfits like that that um when the Channing tatum wears his kind of big block color long-sleeve t-shirts they do I think deliberately look like Star Trek uniforms. Yeah, I think in one scene. He's wearing you know a kind of sort of golden yellow Long-sleeve t-shirt, which I'm sure is supposed to make you think of Captain Kirk. Yeah That is their intention and you know, and it works and it's another cute kind of 1960s reference Um, and just you know the whole deal with the the diners and the cars and the music and the way that the office is set up Oh, I did rather enjoy all of that. Yeah, and having been to the real Kennedy space center last year is interesting to note how Clearly a lot of this film was filmed with the cooperation of nasa some of it was filmed, you know at nasa, I think Um, and you know nasa still retains that kind of 1960s sort of semi brutalist functionalist But also, you know kind of retro charming architecture the which informs the film So I liked the look of the film even though the look of the film isn't tremendously important for this story I I kept thinking of the rom-coms of the 60s with rock hoods and dorris day because I think that's what I think that's exactly what they were going for um, and it's it's not quite witty enough in some way or There's not quite enough for a party to match that and I think there's not enough chemistry to match that But I think that's exactly what they were going for again Not anything original something retro and just recycling it so it suffers from originality for sure lack thereof Um, but I think that's exactly what they wanted and I agree with it. It's a pretty good looking film for you know, you're for It's a big rom-com, you know, it seems like it's a hundred million dollars pretty big budget It's a big rom-com and I think it looks good I think I mean I think they're kind of like the scenes that herald the the beginning of the third act You know with uh, I think they just like the closing of the second act I think when when they they have a proper rocket launch and everyone has a party and they celebrate and um those scenes of You know a satin five rocket taking off um Still inspire or in me and I think you know some of them will be real documentary footage some of them will be I don't know whether they are CGI enhanced Original footage or whether it's all new animation or I don't know but it look fairly convincing. Yeah, you aren't and um You know, it still kind of gives me the feels those rocket launches. Have you ever seen a real rocket launch? Uh, no, I mean on television. Yes, of course, but okay. Yeah, there's one one on my bucket list thing See a real rocket launch that these days unfortunately It'll probably have to be an elon musk rocket launch went it which carries its own slightly bitter aftertaste And then before taste to is there is that such a thing pre-taste Pre-taste just the whole taste experiences to grow in you can feel that little bit of vomit in your mouth before you Um, I'll just say a little thing about the the third act which is insofar as Um, it kind of turns the movie into a sort of like a high smoothie doesn't it for 10 or 15 minutes Yeah, even even to the extent that they have little split screen sections and that's right. Yeah, I kind of there's a countdown and everything um and You know, I wrote in my notes gilding the lily for this section because I felt like what just coordinating a moon launch at all is Nail biteingly tense enough. Yeah without you having to then layer a heist on top of it to make it more exciting to the cinema audience Um, it's cute what they're doing and it kind of works, but it also slightly feels like you know paint on top of paint That's nice paint on top of paint. That's that's chemistry right there. The two paints A lot of chemicals. Yeah, I think I mean if we start talking about Thoughts about the movie, but for me, uh, the tone issues of being at times like a serious nasa piece Um, you know, they try to get the science in there. They do a much better this job on the science Um, then our next film, I think um, and but it's it's also just mostly a fluffy light comedy and it's at times there's this uneasy balance of the genres and As a result, I think a lot of the a lot of the humor kind of felt forced to me It wasn't necessarily 60s humor. That's the other thing is that there's you're kind of out of time to a certain extent because you know You're seeing modern-day stars, but they're they look like they're in mad men or they look like they're in the 60s romcom Um, so at hard time the Knowing my place knowing where I was was was I on terra firma even though you're going into space You have to be on terra firma in some way Um, after I was thinking to push against the launch rocket. Yeah, exactly. So the gravity was You know, they have some gravity in the film, but it's not it's definitely, you know, it's a fluffy thing So and as you said too, sort of like a what you like a shaggy dog kind of film too where they're chasing after this thing and there's It's like a heist film. Um, and you know, I think that It's the theme that came to me was it's all fake, but love is real. That's kind of what I was getting towards a and you know, you're the film itself is fake obviously because they're you know, they're taking a real incident, but they're putting their own characters into the into the Historical elements and it does that was I think hard to pull off as well and glorious bastards kind of does it in in a much more Uh, dismissive way of history. I think you know, like you've got the history there, but he's telling his own story This is a they're sort of telling a story that wasn't quite there Um, and it's a fake story. Obviously that um, you know, the I think right that the moon landing didn't really happen Yeah, so it's it's it's all about yeah And you know, she's kind of a fake because she's pretending to be someone else or whatnot So you get all this fake fake fake stuff and then you feel like oh well, they're their love is the real thing But it's not that much of a love story to yeah To have you really believe that but that was the sort of that theme that came to me ultimately There's one little plot hole, which might be obvious to you. I couldn't figure it out Um, they have this recurring theme of this black cat Yeah, it keeps turning up and messing things up and people are a bit superstitious and worried and cold keeps chasing away the black cat And then just one scene where they chase the kind of they chase the black cat out of the office And it goes, you know Leaping off over some scenery and then they find an empty tin of tuner or something like that And he says someone is feeding the cat Yeah, and I really felt like oh, this is going to be revealed towards the end of the film But you know that somebody was feeding the cat and there's going to be either a gag or a reveal or some kind of surprise And then they am I right? Did they never go back to that? Did we never find out who put the tin of tuner who fed the cat? I can't say for sure. I think it was the Ray Romano character Henry Smalls though Okay, there's this one because Henry is with him when he chases it the first time he says don't do that Don't do that. I mean he seems to have sympathy for it and I think I think that's how it was it's true that like the story The story definitely sort of hinges on that cat being around because it's the shenanigans at the end Yeah, that end up proving that their their live feed is working and it's at the actual moon landing that we're watching Um has to do with the cat. Um, so that cat has to be around Um, but you would think You know it's not Scarlett Johansson feeding the cat Because she wouldn't want shenanigans to happen, right? No And does she even know that at that point now she her first job is to sort of humanize nasa Her second job Is to fake the landing as I remember. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so I think it's Ray Romano's character He's had this heart attack. He's the nice guy. He's got a family. He's feeding the cat You always pick up on the subtleties that I didn't spot Yeah, I think that's what it was but If we were to talk about cliches, I'd talk about the cat I did have this moment speaking of Formula X scriptwriting. Um, I had this save the cat or kill the cat moment Oh Because you know, that's exactly what uh Uh, is it Cole's character? Uh, Channing Tatum character. Um, he really wants to he's really scared of the cat, right? He's serious serious and he thinks it's a black. He's I think it's uh, Superstition or something like that or it's it's it's a bad sign a bad omen Um, he kind of wants to kill the cat or at least chase it off of the the Airbase. Yeah And you know, we saw an alligator. I think an alligator would have eaten that cat So that's another reason why I thought hey could I actually kill the cat in this film? It might be good as opposed to saving the cat, but Scarlett Johansson has to to drive off at top speed to get this uh television part Yeah, the camera. Yeah, and uh, and after they smashed the shop window to to steal the tv Um, the police turned up and there was one heart-stopping moment at their uh, that part of the film where I thought oh my god They've actually called the cliche squad, but it turned out they were just ordinary cops. Yes But I think maybe we should we call the cliche or in cliche scored now and get them on the base Because they've got a lot they've got a lot of questions to ask and they got names to take I think that is very funny because yes, it was like there was a big cliche moment. There was a beautiful cliche moment and You're right. So meta like that was the cliche squad coming Maybe we don't need it. Maybe they've already visited this film, so we don't have to do it But I have got things to say and I'm sure you do too. Go ahead I've got I have got like two ones that I wrote down, but I think There's lots of cliches in this film because a lot of it is kind of 1960 shorthand, isn't it? The one I wrote down here is pencil-necked nerds with pens in their pockets Because Because goodness knows you know, you look around that mission control set and there are a hundred guys sitting at consoles and every single one of them is that pencil-necked nerd cliche They're really there is there is nobody who doesn't conform to that cliche The other one I wrote down Is having Woody Harrelson's character being the government operative who is like a wizard I wrote down. He's how he works for the works for the government, but he's always you know got a dossier on everybody He always knows where everybody is and always appears hiding in the hotel room or the secret office or around the corner Always arrives just at the right time. I think if you work for the government The sheer number of forms that you would have to fill in to be able to charge your expenses for the car that would take you to the secret office Where you would suddenly make your appearance would make it almost impossible to operate like that No government operative can do that. It's just not possible, but we see it in so many films. Yes cliche for sure God the squad's gonna be busy this week Yeah, a couple of them are just tired no all three that i'll talk about very very tired cliches Just the flamboyantly gay director or artist or actor. Uh, I love um That's james rash. I think his names are right. Yeah, um jim rash. Um, I I like him a lot. He was on community Which was a great series here in the states and we probably saw it too. Um, but it's a little over the top I hate it when it just goes too far over the top um Kisses at the ends of films. We just saw that in the what was the thing fall guy? Who was the film we saw with um the fall was it fall the fall? They were both called the fall For no, it's just it's the fall guys. Oh, yeah, yeah, um, we saw it there. Um, it's it's For again in this film that feels like throwback to the 1960s, but it's been happening ever since Film began. I think it just gets a little tired Um, and it's interesting because there as you said a couple of times of where there's really very little chemistry um We don't see them really hook up in this film. So there's I think they're almost holding us on this Uneasy thing of our will they will they or will they not get together at the end sure enough? There's the big kiss at the end. Um Now I would say for the better part of my entire life. I've had a black cat Oh Of one form or another. I have a great black cat right now. I'm very partial to black cats Um, but I think there's a little prejudice and there's some stereotyping Here against black cats and it happens in films all the time and I've had enough of it quite frankly Um, and we also put the you know, we always think of things as being bad when they're black black list black ball black magic Um, I think we need to get away from that language a little bit. So for me, that's a cliche that really strikes But personally, yeah, I love black cats black cats get a raw deal. You're right They do get a raw deal, but they do leave a lot of visible hair around Well, you shouldn't have bought quite so much white furniture. They know Anything like color new you just have everything black Like home black painted walls black furniture black Cheers Um, I must for all for all that we've been um dissing this film I will still come back to my initial comment, which was that I quite enjoyed it. Yeah, you know, I I rather enjoyed it. So it's a pleasant two hours at the cinema. Not taxing that actually not new not revolutionary. Um, but but Better than competent entertaining enjoyable if avatar can make a billion dollars or whatever I think this one should be able to make it's money back. So good on you apple I hope it gets a good ride because I I did not dislike this film clearly apple seems to have signed some sort of agreement with With nasa, I think because there's not just this but there's also um For all mankind, isn't it? Which is like a big apple tv series was all kind of filmed at and around nasa? I clearly there's some kind of some kind of deal. I think one final comment I would have is that I think this film sort of succeeds at everything it wants to do And that in itself is something of a failure because it ends up being a little bit too much of this and a little bit too much of that And a little bit not enough about something real, I guess A little bit of our outcome. It's got a little bit of the science correct It's it's it's got all the the heroes journey thing steps in there perfectly done and as a result I think it's a failure of putting too many things together successfully. I know that's unstupid But um, it's exactly what I saw with this film. That's why it's again good film. You'll see it. You'll be entertained It's not gonna stay with you very long. It's not a great film. Yeah Yeah authenticity. That's the other thing. We always come back to it. Yep. Where's the authenticity? Well, uh Should we have a break? Yes, we're both gonna get a tab. You too. I was feeling the same thing for some reason. I wanted to go get a time zero. Can't we? How does that happen? Um, and then uh, we will come back and we will return to the 1970s For a different take on on space fakery with capricorn one. Yeah You've played wordle you've played waffle you've played quadle doodle needle grid flip word time Numberdle word flap framed numb word the lot. You're looking for a new word game Well, your search is over thanks to our new sponsors this week word number grid quad math word Download a app or play online the rules for word number grid quad math word are simple Start with a six by six grid of letters and two four by four number grids with one number word line and two word number lines Split the word number lines between the three grids to form a five letter word in each of the six spaces on the grid Fitting the extra space with a number that adds up to a total of the equal to numerical values of the letters in the odd numbered spaces Of the two word number lines then use the remaining letters to form an anagram of a well-known politician from history whose name when converted into numbers equals the inverse of the sum of the number word line the two diagonals of the word grid and a Mystery mathematical constant share your answers with your friends if you have any word number grid quad math word if you manage to solve it you'll be asking yourself Why does my head hurt so much? How come I don't just put all this effort into something useful like my job My brain is broken That's kind of my nightmare sponsor, I think Welcome back everyone. I'm on my second tab since the break I got quite a kick these tabs. Yeah, and I'm thinking maybe we should have a tab sponsorship That making me some energy to do the word number grid number math Let's say if you want if you want to talk about a soft drink Product placement. This is the right film. We've come to right now, right? Right, and there's a lot of product placement in the previous film. So boy. Yep, space is money That's what I think space is money spaces money and Capricorn won money in the bank with that cast Tell me why Do you have any other questions from the accounts So I so Capricorn won 1977. I saw this film as a boy in 1978 on release with my parents um And kind of you didn't I I remember two things about it And I will point out the two things probably as we go through the film I only remember two things about it. That's really impressed me as an eight-year-old But the rest of it, I really kind of had no idea about um But I kind of wanted to see it again Yeah, because it's it like fits into that mold of like classic 1970s conspiracy thrillers. Definitely And yeah, it was fun to come and visit it again I kind of don't think I realized what a stellar cast This film has yeah, because it you know, it's got Elliot Gould James Brolin I watched this with Alice my daughter and I was saying that that guy. He's the dad of Thanos Uh, because he is isn't he James Brolin. I think he's the dad of Josh Brolin who played Thanos in the in the Marvel movies Yes, oh j Simpson. Yeah, caron black. Tell us about this. I mean, uh, even David Doyle who I remember as a boy from charlie's angels. Yes. What a great 1970s Cast in this film. They're not all working tremendously hard, but they're all up there on screen So good fun to see it again. Now. You said you hadn't seen it. I I don't think so I mean, it probably I don't think this played in the theaters in the United States I'm not even sure really wow I was looking on IMDb. I couldn't see any gross maybe the it's you know It's before the days where they actually measured gross profits or whatnot, but um, I I probably have seen part of it on television at one point But and maybe that's the thing that's sticking in my head from what I thought was the 1990s, but um I don't remember I definitely didn't see it in the theater to my knowledge And I don't think it's in the whole film. May have seen and amazing. I mean, it is a British film, isn't it? It's produced by the new grade exactly so it may have produced and then kind of television in the United States Um, I did a little bit of reading so peter himes the director This is kind of like his first hit really yeah, he previously was a news anchor. He was a reporter in vietnam um apparently Um, he was covering the moon landings for tv when he got the idea of a space landing hoax ripped script in 1972 No one was interested until after watergate When lu grade, um was prepared to spend five million bucks, uh making it Um peter himes went on to make some interesting stuff. He made out land uh 2010 the 2001 sequel Time cop which I watched uh for the first time I think last year or the year before I I put a thing on the blog about it Time cop is a great guilty pleasure completely stupid Jean Claude van der film and he made end of days, which is like the last last short snager film of any note. Yeah Um, so he had you know, a moderately interesting uh career. The only other thing I knew about peter himes was that um, I I read this week So he directed uh another eliot gold film in 1974 called busting Uh, which was the film which apparently inspired the tv series stasky and hutch. Oh, huh I didn't know that he was a drummer and played with bill evans This is the thing that I latched onto and couldn't let go as like what? It's a very talented guy. You wouldn't get that from this film. I don't think oh my god I didn't know that that's amazing. He was a drummer as well and played some jazz With some great people so yeah with some great people uh interesting character very interesting character I wrote the screenplay and directed correct. Yep And uh, the music is by jerry goldsmith who did the star trek the original star trek movie And I think he did quite a new few soundtracks Yeah, that's yeah, that's the name. You'll see in a lot of 70s and 80s pictures. Yeah, then jerry goldsmith And the cast you know we talk about as an all star cast in some ways. Maybe they weren't all as big Then as they are now, but I'm not sure I mean they're all listed kind of in the in the sense that they were familiar to the times I mean, I obviously get to know a lot of these people watching television and seeing their reruns or Um in the 80s. I suppose but um brand of a car is in there. Yeah, how whole brook I mean some people who are just in a lot of pictures and on television a lot um in the 1970s so Definitely certainly Elliot gold will have been like you a top draw above the line name. Yeah, by that point. Yeah Well Shall I shall I tell you the story of capricorn one please verify that I understood it? We're watching it So Capricorn one conspiracy thriller The year is 1977 probably all there about I think they never really specified And the united states is about to launch a manned expedition to mars Elon Musk eat your heart out when Minutes before blast off a man in a suit with a microphone opens the capsule door And he tells the three astronauts inside. There's no time to explain that my one of my favorite bits of data come with me um And so you may just persuade them in about Six or seven seconds to come with him down the steps And as the rocket blasts off into space the astronauts they go in a bus um and then a helicopter and then they are flown by jet to a secret location where they are told that the mission couldn't Possibly succeed because there was faulty equipment on board, but If nasa were to abort the emission abort the the mission Um with the whole world watching then that would mean the end of space exploration forever So their only option they are told is to film a secret fake mars landing Hide the astronauts and then clan destimely insert them back into the landing craft when it splashes down Um, so after a little blackmail the astronauts go along with the plan But when their unmanned ship The ship they're supposed to be on burns up on reentry Suddenly they have a new problem everyone thinks that they are dead Can one lone journalist earlier gold find the astronauts Before they are murdered to keep the story straight Damn right he can damn right he can tell you can he But not without the help of telly savannas so um So, uh I will quickly talk about the opening image. Um, and but then i'm very interested to hear what you what you've thought about This film that I vaguely remember from my child. Do you remember the opening image from capricorn one? Um I think i've blocked it out It's so it's blackness opens on blackness. I'm a surprise surprise and then basically it's um a very slow fade up of door Oh, yeah Uh with the rocket, uh, you know just in front of the sun Yeah, it looks beautiful. And then there's the lot of talking right where they're talking about the opening hours They're sort of introducing the last time. Yeah Yep, so you've got like a like mission controller ever explaining about how they're leading the fueling the rocket and they'll be locked launching scene um I I again I think that opening image basically summarizes what the film that you're about to see is in so far as Um, like all conspiracy thrillers. I think capricorn is one is largely it's a film about dawning realization And it's kind of about the shining of light into dark corners. Yeah, I think that is the theme that they are going with but that opening image And so you know bearing that in mind. I think that was how I watched Uh the rest of the movie And it does kind of it does fit in with that whole kind of 1970s conspiracy thriller Uh kind of form Uh, what do you think I think the closing image by comparison is so bad Isn't it at the cool and Uh, james brolin are jogging into the funeral his own funeral at the end and it's in slow motion And I think it just freezes eventually on the two of them running at the camera I uh, I watched this film with alice, and um, she thought that closing shot with the slow by was absolutely hilarious Yeah, I just kind of stopped that thing Why is elia gold running? I mean I couldn't see the after the hero astronaut running to his wife who thinks she's dead I mean that would be great Elia gold is a tag along with a little better convertible at all sports car that's Been through healing back. Um, I don't know Shouldn't happen he's a journalist But he's an a-lister. He's probably the biggest star in the film in some ways at that time. I try to Review the cast seems a bigger star. Um It's kind of painful to watch this film. It's got Listeners beware, um It has all the hallmarks. It's got what it needs, right? Yeah, yeah huge cast a lot of people to see on on on a big screen Um But it does so many things wrong Like there's there's there's no there's no exploration of what the the months in solitude are like with these astronauts We never see that part of the story really we could get a couple key moments Um, there are really too many characters that we're supposed to follow um And um, I I think it makes some Some big mistakes along the way. It's um, so it doesn't get the science right and it really doesn't get the personal stories, right? So as a result, it's just um, and it's long isn't it? It's two-thirty. Was it two hours? I think I think it's just over two hours. Okay, I think apparently there is a longer cut of about two Two hours nine minutes. Oh, that's right. Only available in Japan. That's something like that. Yeah. Oh, that must be much better Yeah, there's lucky japanese. They see the real version. There's something in there. Um Yeah, it's um, it it doesn't do the way I had just talked about the other films sort of doing what it needed to do, right? This film sort of does a lot of things wrong. I think and um, I think that's that's it's uh, it's a kiddies heel is um Just not exploring some really interesting things They're they're sort of being sequestered in this hanger somewhere Um, but the only scene they're filming, you know, both of these films just kind of focus on this one landing scene. That's all that matters um Whereas, you know, you want to see the thing flying through space You think that you know, both of these films get away without showing the The astronauts in no gravity situations, you know, that would be you know, they're tethered when you do see them from earth It's only for their wives. I think and they're in the capsule and they're totally tethered down So you're it's just not believable because you you haven't put the characters or the actors through any kind of journey whatsoever Um, and we don't we never see them sort of eat crap food in a hanger somewhere or really get their their life stories from one another Um in utter like isolation and boredom and I think you need a little bit of that You don't dwell on that of course because it's not cinematic, but you have to have some of that So I didn't I didn't believe their story and then I think I guess it's kind of the midpoint When they have It's right on the nose. The timing was perfect. I think they steal a plane. They've landed on earth Uh, they've been taken to this um hanger again hangers everywhere Happens to be a plane with some keys Just ready to fire up and ignite and fly into a canyon and sort of crash land and there's this moment where I think they should have stuck together It was very clear that they were going to split up and they you know, they go in three perfectly Different directions And I think it would have been more interesting to see them as a team at that point because it's this team But you really never see them doing much as a team Um, and I think it would have been more interesting to keep them together there Um, and that was another mistake. I just felt like there were a lot of missteps at every possible Moment and the you know, there's you get this pretty exciting opening And I love the fact that you pointed out that part about there's no time to explain Um, basically that means that you're eventually going to get a whole lot of exposition pretty pretty soon because there's a whole lot to explain Um, and how hoebrook does it in this long, um, explanation where he sits the guys down Everyone's very calm. It just doesn't make sense like the the emotions in the film never Really made sense because he's basically just told them We're going to kill your family if you don't go along with this And they're you know, they're a little bit upset. Um And then when they finally get back to earth, I think they've been sequestered again, right? They're locked up in this room. It's one of my favorite film moments in the film was that They decide to take action and escape and then oj jumps up goes to the door and it's locked and then that's enough to shut them down Oh doors locked. Oh can't escape Kick the damn door down. You're a fantastic football player So it's just uh, I think it just it misses it every possible Uh moment that it can succeed and as a result, it's just it's it's 70s fluff. It's a different kind of fluff Uh from the first film, I think and it's just uh, I don't think it's particularly well written the dialogs Really quite canned and the performances are not really good Um, so there's not a whole lot other than just the novelty if that's what it is of like a 70s film At the same time. I mean I loved it. I devouring it in the sense that it was it was So bad and so 70s that I enjoyed it, but I'm not gonna see it again What were the film what were the moments that you saw as a kid that you remembered? There's two things I remember really vividly as a child. One of them was when they are shooting this fake landing Um and the astronauts have to descend the ladder. Yeah, I'm jumped to the surface of Mars Uh, they have to simulate Uh, the gravity by just flicking to slo-mo for a moment That's right and that somehow really impressed it Yeah, itself on my my kind of eight-year-old brain That you could just flick a switch and someone immediately go into slo-mo So I can vividly remember that which is ironic considering that the film ends with some slo-mo Which is absolutely technically incompetent Um, but but for the for the for the fake Mars landing the the slo-mo is brilliant So that's the thing I remember the other thing that I can clearly remember I can I can flashback to this moment in the cinema in the odean in Nottingham Um, it's flanked by my parents watching Capricorn Wong And James Brolin eats a snake And I can I can remember like uh, other people in the audience going Like that, uh, I vividly recall watching him eat a snake Yeah, uh, even though I can even remember asking my mother about it afterwards and her telling me no It was probably made of chocolate. Yeah So, you know, it was a fake snake. He wasn't eating a real snake Which I think must have really worried me when I was eight that they you know, they'd forced us actor to eat a real snake So there's the only two things really that I remember about the film at all um This film has a I got I have a few things to say. Yeah, but one of them is um, like you said the characterization is incredibly thin Yeah, uh, in this film like there are three astronauts Um, and uh, basically their characters are quite tough guy Yeah, uh, he seems quite tough. Yeah, uh, there is a guy who tells jokes Every time he opens his mouth, he tells a joke. That's the whole of his character and oj simpson Yeah, who gets almost no lines in the film? He has virtually no lines Yeah, he has very little in the way of characterization at all. He is just third astronaut. Yeah, um, I think Um, Elliot Gould, you know, has his usual easy charm and Elliot Gould. I think it's always very watchable He really looks like he's just kind of being himself Uh, on screen. Um, and so Elliot Gould always very watchable Um, I think the best characters in this film are the two helicopters which go to chase the astronauts That's just really remarkable helicopter work from this 1977 film But they do this kind of weird thing where you know, you don't really see the helicopter pilots Even when they get out of the helicopters, they still wear their helmets But the helicopters themselves have real personality The helicopters look at each other and they nod and they indicate and they Kind of, you know, go off in directions together and uh, I think it's, you know, great acting by the helicopters in this film They might be the most compelling characters And then, you know, the only other really compelling character is telecephalus Who appears right at the end of the movie and is absolutely hilarious every time he's on screen Yeah, so he plays his crop sprayer and every time he opens his mouth, it's a really good joke But but you know, that's that's You know, they've waited a long time before we get to watch someone that I've enjoyed spending time with on Well, I think that isn't the joke again and he tells Elliot Gould to get his Sit down and get his big fat head out of the way Says it six or seven times It's funny about telecephalus because he comes in very late like It's like 10 minutes from the end of the film, yes And I had written down In my notes This film needs telecephalus all caps exclamation point And then a few minutes later I find into my notes This film doesn't need telecephalus exclamation point all caps Um, he doesn't add a lot. Um, it's not a good rule for him I mean, I guess it's sort of like this tough jokie Pilot and it's very unlikely that they even meet in the middle of the desert at some gas station Where he has his part his plane parked to do some crap trusting It's there's a lot of suspension of disbelief in this film Um, I must if you're going to open up a crop dusting business I wouldn't recommend doing it in the desert frankly There probably won't be that much work. You know, I'm not an expert, but that's my guess And I also agree with you on the oj thing like obviously that we've got History and cinema about taking um athletes or foot stars and Putting them into movies whether they're actors or not Um, and yeah, oj has this big moment where he's fumbling around in this dry river bed He's dehydrated. He starts raking the earth with his fingers to find water And then he's hallucinating a few birds and they're actually the the black killer helicopters that are Hunting him, but I think in this film oj Simpson is what we call outside his zone of excellence I wanted him to pick up the football and run, you know, and you know, he's gonna be the first one to die He's the actor of color his name is john walker He's gonna. He's gonna go first. He's definitely gonna go first and surely he does and then there I had a really hard time with the timeline on this film because There's this grieving period when they think the astronauts have died then there's a memorial a few days later But we don't see much time passing or much space passing when the astronauts are set separated Because you keep seeing as as each one dies one by one You see this flare going into the sky and they've covered I don't know maybe a half mile or something like that Um over the course of is it, you know, we see one night in the desert So it's at least one night, but in the the the lives of James broll and brookie rubakers A wife played by brand of a car. It looks like it's been a week or something like that And then so time and space doesn't even remotely Add up and I think that you know, it's it's just you know He's got his story he wants to tell it but he's got to tell it in the way that it unfolds I think kind of organically and it doesn't Really do that very well and I do want to talk about the snake because I had written as I was watching That this was finally this was the overnight scene I think he's about to sleep in that caper in that cave where he's woken up in the dust at one moment too Um, he's just hiding in there from the helicopters and as soon as I Um saw him in there. I said there has to be a snake in there Sure enough a movie moment before I'd really finished that thought The rattle It's just very very reliable filmmaking. It seems like all the things that Um, they had to be in there were there and then it caught and then I was thinking well What about a scorpion? Why is there no scorpion? And sure enough then there's a scorpion a few minutes later uh But again in terms of like accuracy again, this is this is my medical question for you this week um oh, yes Brubaker that's the James Brolin character the cat sort of the captain he's super sweaty Um in the desert and I don't think that's possible because his hydration options are very poor, right? I think you need water inside To see it was to sweat the outside. Yeah, so I mean they're all sweaty in this very very dry desert They have an adding water. They each have like a small bottle of water as they recall because they split up the rations Um and he's got the gun too, but can he sweat in that situation? I don't think so At one point he buries himself in sand doesn't he as well? Yeah in order to escape the helicopter So any sweat that he would have produced then would have been absorbed by the sands. I'm I I'm assuming it's probably just it's oil from the snake. That's what we're saying It's not really a sweat at all. It's just an oil. No, you mean it's a snake oil Actually, that's the thing, isn't it? I I mean this film has of yeah, I couldn't agree more. This is one of my top notes So this film has a really weird idea of time. Yeah, you see I you commented already that They steal the jet and crash it in the in the desert at exactly the midpoint It's one hour and three minutes. Yeah And then from then on in like the second half of the film is this kind of super slow mo chase through the desert But in the time it takes James Brolin to walk like half a mile Find a cave eat a snake In that same time I made like a little list here his wife has read a dr. Seuss book to his children one of the best scenes in the film by the way I think that's the best thing. Yeah, which is isn't it? Yes, actually I agree and then Elliot Gould has talked to his wife not once but twice. Yeah, Elliot Gould has traveled to flat rock where someone has tried to shoot him Yeah, he's gone back to to visit the wife and watch some home movies Then he's gonna talk to his editor gone back home been framed in a drugs bust Right gone to prison been bailed out gone to find Karen black taken her car And you're gone to eventually discover this base 300 miles away from from Like the launch site. He finds this medallion Um, then he finds the crop duster You know and then he kind of bumps into James Brolin at the gas station It's absolutely incredible the sheer amount of stuff that Elliot Gould is able to do while James Brolin just walks a mile and eats a snake It's just good investigative journalism. I think that's what a guy does when there's a story to be told Um, I mean, it's it seems clear to me that the original script was about a moon landing Because if you have the these guys flying to the moon and back, it's you know, it's a six-day journey at most, isn't it? That's true. Um, and you know, then this this the the the movie kind of makes more sense You lie low for six days and then you get reinserted into the capsule. Yeah, um, but for it to be a You know a 220 day journey You know, you have no idea what they are spending all their time doing Um for the other 219 days. Yeah, you don't watch them. You know, while they are presumably take playing table tennis and yeah, you know, and I don't know Learning how to steal jets in the In the desert Um, one of the things that makes it one of the most 70s movie movies ever is that there are not one but two plot points Which depend on a medallion? Which is that's tremendously 70s. Yeah, so not only does he use his medallion Uh to prize the door off its hinges in order to escape from the base, but also it's uh, a edit called finding the medallion in the in the sand is what tips him off that he's on the right trail doesn't right? I think there should be more medallion based plot points in these 70s movies. Yeah, really lean into it. That's my advice Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who had a hard time with the the timeline. It just didn't match at all. It was uh But in a laughable way. I mean it ends up being funny. Now that you've read all that back to me. Oh, yeah All that happened Elliot Gould's a hustler You can cover the miles. Yeah, I think um the the thing about that the dr. Su scene she's rendered for a car old boobaker's wife is reading and it I think it's we're supposed to think it's the day that he's been Killed or returned her. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so it's a Again a heavy day. It's a very quiet moment But it's just it's shot very well in the sense that it's just a camera getting closer and closer to a Woman reading a story to her child in bed. Um, it's the best piece of acting It's kind of it's not his writing. It's dr. Seuss. It's you know, the storytelling is not the story that we're hearing and the storytelling is That moment of a grieving mother Where their child and that's the best it's really the best thing It's really unlikely, but it is the best scene in the film You'd think that some of the action films or the blast-offs or what something else would be the best scene, but that is the best scene I do have a soft spot for that that moment when they all walk away from the jet Uh because I feel like that feels like a you know, that was clearly a piece of art in the pitch document Yeah, oh never That's you know, they you can see the it's almost like the whole second half of the film is laid out in front of you in a single picture, isn't it? Yeah, there is there is the jet there are the three astronauts. They are walking away exactly at 90 degrees to each other There's the mountains of the background. It's like it's almost Yeah, if you if you squint, you should be able to see two helicopters and telly surveillance and a crop sprayer Yeah, very far far distant background. Yeah, give you the entire film in a single shot. It's it's funny Visually, it's a great piece of filmmaking, but I think it's a mistake in the storytelling. I really do I think they should have stayed together and it would have been a more Yep, interesting journey. Just gives you more action. It's far more enjoyable. Yeah Yeah, and actually it would make more sense for them as well surely I think so More likely to survive and more likely to yeah, because you know the joke you need all three people you need the guy who doesn't say anything or do too much but can do strong stuff like pull up a little staircase to the airplane as it's hanging open as they're making their getaway or Picking up a football and running or kicking down a door, which he doesn't do Um, you got the guy who tells the jokes. Yeah, um and he's not there And then you get the serious guy who has the gun I believe too and then the gun disappears I think yeah gun never fires unless it was a flare gun all along and he didn't fire his I couldn't quite pick up on that But yeah, I think if they stay together Or it's just ironic that we didn't See them alone together if you know what I mean in the for the hundred days or whatever that they're supposed to be sequestered on that base We never see them there together. It's very strange because we know that they're together from A long time in terms of storytelling, but we never really see them together And there's not much camaraderie and they're all so flat as characters that it doesn't feel authentic That authenticity word again is to shame, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, so I'm sorry to disappoint you with my hazy 1970s Nottingham odian memory. Oh god, but I feel like that I have watched it. Yeah, there was there was there was kind of there was um Enjoyment to have that yeah, I loved watching it. I think there were so many ridiculous scenes that made no sense it was Funny like Elliot Gould is getting shot at in the middle of that flat rock visit where he's visiting this ghost town someone's firing Gun at him If they followed him there There was a great pope in the pool moment as a matter of fact when hell hoebrook is going to um He's going to beg brand of a car's character to attend the The wedding and the kids were playing in the pool and then he just again he sits down and does a bunch of exposition But it's it's just a moment where you're looking at something but you were supposed to really pay attention to all this exposition that you You need but you don't really need it. I mean there are a number of scenes that could have been Could have been cut free and then the the on the nose reveal of what really happened at flat rock um was that they saw this film being made and that was supposed to um tell Elliot Gould and By extension render of a car that oh they were making a film of this Mars landing. It was um It wasn't subtle and there are some things that could have been cut And again, I can't complain too much because I did like watching it, but Um, it's almost a parody of itself in some ways And then that oh did a thing is there's a cat joke, right? There's a saving the cat joke sand waterstone the joker astronaut as he's dying this very slow death the climbing this rock only if he met by Helicopters of death. He's telling this joke about a cat To the point where I thought is that where Blake Snyder got the name of the book save the cat uh Yeah, so I think it's great if it listeners if this comes on television sometime sit down with I'm gonna be a cup of coffee or tea or the drink of your choice and enjoy it but You're not gonna really enjoy it, but I would say watch it and then I think Karen black is underused She's just such a 70s icon. Um, I wish she had a bit more screen time. Yeah, she's just in two scenes, isn't she? Yeah So what you should do is sit down and watch this film with a coke because there was a lot of furry Very clear coke product placement in this film. Yeah For you, there's actually a payphone scene too in uh, when brew bakers caught in that gas station that where he'll be picked up and jump onto the plane Flowing by teddy's of Alice. Um, he needed to come up with some coins It doesn't he break into the cash register or something that and gets a dime or maybe two bits as we talked about in our last Two bits. Um It's great. It just doesn't he end up getting them they're getting the money out of the coke machine. I think is that what it is I think I think that's where he gets the money. Oh my god I do like the idea that he all he does is he phones his wife at home. She doesn't pick up. Yeah, so that's a so he immediately gives up yeah, um Rather considering other any other humans. I know that I could telephone. Yeah, it's like that locked door If there's the slightest barrier or obstacle just give up You're gonna go down in history anywhere as an astronaut you can give up It's good to know they're recruiting the right skies for the uh, for the space program Yes, people to give up at the first obstacle Uh, well speaking of people who give up at the first obstacle. Let's play my favorite game. Oh, yeah, who am I? Who am I? Who are you? Do I need to go for? I'll go first. I have to think about who I am You have to give the author. I'll be listening to you while I think about that I At the end of watching these two films. I came away wishing that I was telecevalus actually Who you know, either either telecevalus or Elliot Gould who both have a bit of 70 swagger Yeah, um, and you know a bit of genuine cool Uh in this film. Elliot Gould always watch ball. Tell us about this very funny. Yeah, I wish I was one of those But I've got to be realistic. I don't think I am either of those I am not a tough talking ball Greek guy and I'm not Elliot Gould. So Um, if I am anybody if I've recognized myself as anybody in either of these films I am one of the 100 pencil net nerds Um, safely nestled behind a console where I have to press buttons in sequence. You know, I recognized myself and there I was I could probably just about manage that maybe Uh, did he recognize yourself this week? I'm going to agree with you. I want to be Elliot Gould. He's a fast talking reporter and boy He lives a full life, doesn't he? He's like He packs it in. He's living his best life. He packs a lot in. He we haven't mentioned that he actually drove into a harbor at 1.2 That in Florida. I guess I switch he drives into a harbor like in may and then does nothing about it until the ship burns up in september something like that It's just it's like just it's like shrugs it off. Oh whatever. That's right. It's just this ridiculous chase scene Um, I want to say LA Gould, but actually I think I'm the black cat. Honestly, I think I Well, that makes you star of the show in the first movie. People are suspicious of me I'm not really wanted. Some people occasionally put food out for me and then I can be kind of get a critical moment I think I'm the black cat in fly me to the moon Meaning yeah, you are sleek dark and and uh obsessively clean there. Yes. No. Yes, maybe um, there's one thing that I do want to talk about Um, quickly because I think this was hilarious when you said you were one of the Hundreds of engineers in that film. I love the moment where there's this young engineer in Capricorn one his name's Elliot gets a little confusing because he's buddies with Elliot Gould Conveniently, um, he catches up to this radar coming from a much closer place than mars So he's kind of on to the fact that um, there's something wrong. There's something um in in hygienx. I guess Um, and how whole brook and the other big engineers at the at the space station. They don't do anything They don't you know, um Explore it anyway, um And it I think it was a chance to make the cover up a little bit deeper and I think I can it was kind of a mistake in the screenwriting, but then um Elliot does disappear they disappear and eventually when he kind of complains a few too many times And I just love the fact that they drape a sheet over his computer console As if nothing happened whatsoever and I don't look under that sheet everybody else. It's fine it's just uh, Elliot's gone and there's a sheet over him like a dead body. It's just uh Oh god, it was wonderful. It was wonderful and again It's kind of an example of how fun unintentionally funny this film is in this script along with a lot of uh There's this classic scene where Elliot Gould has to take when when the other Elliot disappears um, Elliot Gould takes a uh, uh, telephone call at the bar on a you know Landline and the conversation goes on forever and it's just very slow measured speech in this moment That should be kind of either drunk in because they're playing pool in this bar or very um He should get suspicious and get and get active right away and it's just no he has this very perfectly calm measured conversation with this Uh evil doer on the other end of the line. It's uh, very funny. This film is on unintentionally funny and just laugh with it I think you've got to go with it the sheet Okay, we should we should let let's lift the sheet. Um, and uh Try and we'll do our synthesis. We'll try and draw these two films together. Do they have anything common? I wonder i'm going to scratch my chin while I play the music I I was I was in the shower really I was reflecting that this is kind of something has has become a kind of theme of the podcast Which is that like every episode we take two films and you know and it turns out generally they are only pretty superficially similar Um, you said so they you know from a distance They seem like they would go together and then when you start to look at them more closely you realize no these films are You know, are really different and you know, do they really belong together? And it's only when we talk about them like very closely you look at them very hard and you start to realize oh no wait a second These films actually are pretty similar. Yeah, and I think they are this this kind of fits into exactly that that mold Yeah, so I read I read in my notes here like both of these films You believe in the importance of space exploration You know, and they kind of they they really believe in the integrity of astronauts So neither of these films question the integrity of astronauts. These are kind of like the modern saints They the the the untouchable virtuous figures um, but I think Both of these films, you know, I think made uh About nasa, but using nasa Um, I think in collaboration with nasa I think both of these films kind of stand out as parts of Uh, the thing that they are about you know, they're talking about space exploration But these films are part of the propaganda power of the military industrial complex I think these films kind of are about because they are made of soft power or semi soft power You know, they had to collaborate with nasa to get the film made in both cases And both of these films are part of the publicity machine Which advertises, you know, the us is your air and space superiority And I think that's kind of a big part of what these films are sort of about You know, it may claim to be a conspiracy thriller, but actually, you know, it's it's broadly a pretty mainstream political view You may claim to be a rom-com, but it's you know largely about look how awesome these rockets are I think both of these films despite being You know different in theme and different in tone are both part of the Both cokes in that big propaganda machine. I think there is nasa Yeah, sort of celebrating it on one hand, but also sort of questioning it if not Nearly undermining it at the same time or just criticizing it at the same time, I guess Yeah I believe that for sure. Um, I think they both depend on um stars as well um Like they need that it's such a ragtag odd gang in capricorn one, but because there's so many recognizable names um The film got made I assume Um I don't know if it opened well or did very well as I said, I'm not playing the theaters here Whereas um like scotch or hanson and chanting tatum is sort of a We have questioned the chemistry there, but they definitely this film I think depends on two fairly big stars in part because of the dual protagonist film as well, but Um, it's a summer You know, this was the bar barbenheimer weekend. I believe last year, right? So it depends on some kind of opening that it probably didn't have but the whole ethos of the film and its release was definitely based on Uh, two, I don't know if they're can we call them a list? I think they're kind of a list actors I don't even know what they probably are. Yeah. Um You know pretending to be um Remantically involved in the in the film. Um So I think they both depend on casts and Yeah, I think scrotch or hanson and and chanting tatum do a pretty good job. It's just everything's so Predictable, I guess like he's definitely the straight man, you know, he did he gets a very few Um humors lines where she gets a lot of fast talking comedy Um, and then as I said, I think that the cast is really underutilized in capricorn one and I just don't think the materials there Um, really an either film, but certainly not in capricorn one. Wow. Um, so I and I think for me I think Fly me to the moon gets a lot of the science at least, you know, believably right even though it's delivered from these stereotypical pocket protector engineers um Um, but it and it gets sort of the faking mostly right too like when when Jim rashes character comes on and then creates this whole Very theatrical um moon landing space. It seems like they they got it right. I don't believe that bit about I didn't even get the tv part that they needed to pull out of a television at the last minute and stick on to something in the Yeah, I don't I don't I didn't believe that but they mostly get They kind of they kind of get the fakery and they get the reality right Um, whereas I think capricorn really fails at both I think that makes it really hard to consider as a serious film. I don't consider it a serious film. I don't think it is so As much as I kind of hate enjoyed it, you know, um, I I don't think it's serious I think it is in hindsight It's one of those things that you could go back and try and watch as a comedy and it would work really well It's one other thing which which um these films, you know clearly obviously have closely in common Um, which is that they both depend on some, you know prior knowledge or understanding of the notion That the moon landings may have been faked. Yeah, I don't know when that idea first became I a current, you know acceptable Opinion when that was first mooted as a possibility. I don't know whether people were suggested that they might be fake even in 1969 Yeah, or if this is an idea which only emerged later on like post-water game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Well, I think watergate has something to do with it, isn't it? And this kind of a new mainstreaming of the distrust of authority. Yeah, both films kind of trying to have They they they both try to have their cake and eat it Why I always get that wrong, isn't it? Try and keep their cake and eat it. They try and they try and preserve some cake and it also eats some of the cake because they This doesn't suggest that it is technically pretty easy to film or technique possible to film footage which is completely convincing as a fake moon landing And yet both of the films also suggest but that didn't really happen. We all agree Don't we that the moon landings really happened. Yeah, I don't know what the current proportion Of of people if you stopped a hundred people in the street. How many of them would tell you? Oh, the moon landings were fake I don't know. I don't know if it's one at a hundred or fifty. Yeah um I did have this thought watching uh fly me to the moon that if um if it were possible to Perfectly and convincingly fake the footage of landing on the moon Um if they had transmitted the fake footage instead of the real footage Is it not a little bit like a tree falling in the forest? You know Would it really matter? I think they're both amazing accomplishments, right? If it's a fakery then it's fantastic filmmaking and storytelling So it's an accomplishment in that way. I think actually Sending humans to the moon as pointless as I think it probably is in a other waste of time as I think it is It's pretty incredible the engineering going into that and you see some of that on the screen I think realistically in fly me to the moon That's a sell that's a that's an accomplishment to be celebrated. I think I hate the idea of planting the american flag there I find that really fun, but I think it's an amazing achievement. So I think it should be celebrated um Mars, please no, please Let's stop the insanity. We've already screwed up one planet. I don't think we need to go up and screw up other planets Um, but if we could send Elon Musk to Mars and then he remained there. Maybe there'll be an upside Please take years to get there be horrible living conditions Um, I loved that actually in Capricorn one was this whole idea that they were going to fly to Mars and you know Land there and then they end up in something on earth that very much resembles Mars and it's completely Uninevitable and there are snakes that you can eat and that's about as good as the cuisine's going to get and that's what we get We get what we deserve. I think so, um, I did like that moment, but I think I yeah, I think people are suspicious, but You bring up a good point. I I do think that A lot of people are still suspicious and don't believe it, but I I think the more important thing is is it happened? There's evidence of it happening and even if it were fake evidence, it'd be pretty cool that they could recreate that. I really liked that in Um, fly me to the moon the whole production of Making a stage and putting a moon lander there Um, and again, you know, if you're not seeing it fall to the surface and really operational it It's not convincing, but it's you know, for the purposes of the film. It's really well done. I thought and that's not really the case in Uh, Capricorn once it was kind of one of my favorite parts I wish it hadn't been at the hangar next door to where the actual operations were going because it just made it immediately Unbelievable. You should have been a bit more clever about it, but um, it does uh, it does ring kind of true in a very fake way So it was it was well done. It's it's the fakery that tells the truth. Yeah, yeah Right, we have just enough time to talk about what else has been playing at this theater Shall I go first? I always force myself to the front of the queue here. No, I'm butting in Oh, go on then go on. Let me out the way. Speaking of destroying planets. I um, have been watching this thing I think I probably mentioned this on the last one. Uh oh, I think I started watching it last time This is the only thing I've seen no movies hope in the water hope in the water is a documentary series on public television here Exploring how we've caused a lot of problems with our oceans, but also really showing interesting Innovations that will allow us to defeat ourselves responsibly and sustainably Using what we already have so I just liked it because it Shows the problem shows solutions and then it's over in 54 minutes. So Uh, there were three episodes one was with Martha Stewart one was with the Sh as it shalene woodley woodley if we could do that. Okay, right? Yeah, so they were hosting it. So they were actually very much involved in the um, the project so they were actually, you know, exploring some of these things. Uh, shalene's a surfer so she knows the Purple urchin set in california. Martha Stewart actually has a house here in main Where they're doing some kelp farming and oyster farming. So it's really very very interesting It's just not the same Martha Stewart that went to prison. Yes, I love Martha Stewart for that fact She did her wrong and then she did her time Then she came back got some plastic surgery and she's been a just a perfectly wonderful member society ever since I like little plastic surgery detail inserted into the bio There's always a little ball in between the compliments her eyes are always smiling. She's got smiling eyes It must be so tiring um, I haven't watched anything nearly so worthy and enlightening Uh, we were surfing around for something to watch as a family Last weekend and we settled on erin brock of it. Oh, yeah, uh, the 2000s Steven soderbergh movie I thought it was a 90s movie, but it's not it's from the year 2000 a little bit more recently than I expected It's millennium one of the first first films of the millennium julia robert's albert finney aran eckhardt who I completely forgotten was in it Yeah, um, and and it made it. I had to look it up. It made, uh, over a quarter of a billion dollars $256 million And you know, I think erin brock of which that film is a modern classic. Yeah, yeah, it's it is about so much It's just so still fully made and written. Yeah, um You know and while it I was trying to explain to my children kind of how why I liked it quite so much Because you know superficially appears to have this you know straightforward a plot about you know, it's a conspiracy thriller again about You know contaminated water and it's a kind of courtroom or legal sort of thriller But you're underneath that Really, it's all about the characters and the characters are tremendously well written Yeah, you know erin brock of it she explains that she knows she's been married in divorce like twice or something like that And um, and you can kind of see why and she's a great character But you know, she's not all sweetness and nice and she's you know, she's a pretty challenging woman Yeah, um, and then you know underneath all the character work It's also it says something about poverty and about women and it's you know has a lot to say and it says it very skillfully Definitely. Yeah, I really think it's a terrific piece of work. It's a real achievement. Great picture Good for you guys. So yeah, so that's nice nice to watch. Yeah, it's something that doesn't have superheroes or space space cadets in it Uh Or we'll quit you to the socials on instagram. We are at two real cinema club read the blog to real cinema club dot com Where I think I wrote something about that shanclor van dam picture type cop Um comment on our youtube channel or email us. We love your emails at two real cinema club at gmail.com next time Uh, we are going to be watching Twisters of ours We are watching twisters the new wind based thriller And uh, we will be comparing it to the other most famous twister in all of cinema the wizard of ours Uh, the twisters of ours these these titles just rewrite themselves, don't they twister twisters must be an advertisement for our product placement for wind energy It's okay. I thought you were going to tell me there's some kind of cheesy snack called twisters if there isn't they should It's only definitely is um, that's definitely must be yeah, and I might watch wizard of ours with the pink floyd Soundtrack i'm thinking about it or i'll watch it. I never tried that. I've got to try that Don't forget it's the dark side of the azer pink pink side of the wizard or pink of the wizard Join us next time for pink side of the wizard With a lot of wind thanks for joining us as always Uh, we will see you next time That's long and prosper (upbeat music)
