breaking tonight, an extraordinary meeting wrapping up at the White House just moments ago as Democratic governors raised to Washington, D.C., for a critical face-to-face talk with President Biden. Now, he is insisting publicly today that he is not leaving this race. New details, however, on what sources say Biden's privately telling his allies. And there is brand new sound of the president admitting that he, quote, "strewed up" on debate night. Plus, pressure continuing to build as a second House Democrat now publicly calling for the embattled incumbent to abandon his re-election bid. And in the succession plan taking shape as we are speaking here tonight, while senior campaign aides as the president is keeping his Vice President Kamala Harris intentionally closed today to send a clear message. Here's what it is. He's with her tonight on Laura Coats Live. So, a crisis meeting in our nation's capital on this Independence Day Eve. Instead of firing up their barbecues, preparing for some hometown parades, a group of Democratic governors has paraded themselves to the White House this evening. Many others joined the huddle on Zoom, and there were 25 in total online and in person. Yeah, that's governors from half the entire country. Why? For some straight talk with the president of the United States on whether he can really lead the party to victory in November, up and down the ballot, and govern another four years. Now, several governors took to the microphones after that meeting. It's heading by the president. Yet, Governor Tim Waltz from my home state of Minnesota insisting that Biden is fit for office. Mr. Westmore of Maryland Biden's surrogate also maintaining his support. I had a great conversation with the president. He has had our backs through COVID, through all of the recovery, all the things that have happened. The governors have his back. We always believed that when you love someone, you tell them the truth. And I think we came in and we were honest about the feedback that we were getting. We said that we would stand with him. Also notably there, Vice President Kamala Harris. Now why is this notable? I mean, she's the vice president after all, right? But it places her in the same room as some of the very men and women who could become her challenger should Biden end his bid. A senior campaign advisor tells CNN that the president is keeping Harris intentionally close by, inviting her to join the meeting with governors about his future, showing lunch in his private dining room today, and taking part in a call with campaign staff. Now, the overarching message, according to that advisor, he is with her. Should he step aside? And several party officials and advisors say that plans are already underway somehow for Biden to immediately throw his support behind the vice president, release his democratic delegates. That's the key here and maybe the war chest money and ask them to do the same in the hopes of avoiding a contentious fight to lead that democratic ticket. But in the meantime, Biden was defiant and that all staff call today with his entire campaign team. To write the two troops saying, "No one is pushing me out. I'm not leaving. I'm in this race to the end." Despite acknowledging privately that dropping out of the race is not out of the question, a source says that he's clear-eyed, not oblivious to a scenario in the next stretch of days, where if polls are plummeting and fundraising is drying up and interviews are going badly, it might prompt him to accept, "It's just not working." Now, this saw coming after the debate that upended everything and tonight there is a brand new sound of Biden talking about his performance on that stage in a brand new radio interview. At a bad night, and the fact of the matter is that, you know, I screwed up, I made a mistake. That's 90 minutes on stage. Look at what I've done in 3.5 years. Let's get right to a pair of reporters and sources inside the Biden team. Katie Rogers is a White House correspondent for The New York Times, and Evan Osnos is a Biden biographer and writer for The New Yorker. Glad to have you both here tonight. The news is not changing. Katie, let me begin with you here because this group of governors, I mean, it's a tough crowd. Even though they're Democrats, some of them and their names have been floated as potential replacements. He's surely aware of that, and they're unlikely to be fooled as politicians themselves by a outward facing brave face. So what do you think he told them to get that statement out in cameras today? I think, you know, based on the reporting that's coming out of that meeting, at least one of those governors was very straight with him about the fact that they personally thought that Biden seemed fine for his age, but was very clear about the fact that voters in their state do not feel the same way. So it was a pretty clear-eyed conversation it sounds like. There were three governors who came out afterwards, and Wals of Minnesota said, you know, we have his back. He had ours. The president wants to win in November. We all agree that winning and finding a path to victory is the most important thing. So that sounds to me like the tenor of that meeting was them supporting him now and wanting to know more from him about what specifically he will do to stay on the ticket and win. Any reporting, Katie, about why, well, somewhere on Zoom, but 17 others were not in front of the camera at the very least, you know, actually 22. Do you know why these three were chosen? To come out, I had asked a staffer to one of the governors about, you know, why the ones who were in person, why not come out and show a big show of support? And this person had said, you know, they agreed on this particular group, this small group to come out, so there was not any discussion about showing a united front, which, you know, shows you a lot about the different opinions of the people in that meeting. And also, you know, a person in Biden World points out to me that this was not exactly the sampling of governors that the president might want to look to for really full-throated support right now. A great point. When Evan, I want to turn to you, and I think about, you know, Newsom or Whitmer or Pritzker, those whose names have been floated, and they're not in front of that camera. I mean, certainly Wes Moore has been floated for years now as a possible contender for the presidency, but he was in support as a surrogate of Biden, but then there's this reporting, Evan, that there is this succession plan taking shape, that he is keeping Vice President Kamala Harris closer to him in the event that he should transition to her for the campaign and leave the ticket. Call me a skeptic, but I do wonder, is it a factor of keep your Vice President close or your potential challenger closer? Well, he is aware of the dynamics between presidents and vice presidents. After all, he was a vice president. I remember him once telling me during the vice presidency that he always was conscious of the fact that as he put it, Al Gore seemed to be sometimes running for president even while he was in the vice presidency. So Joe Biden's sensitive to any appearance that somebody might be putting some distance between him and the president, and he hasn't felt that way about Kamala Harris. I have to tell you, you know, I think that one of the things she's done over the last three and a half years that has been important to this White House has been staying close to him. She hasn't been. You haven't seen stories of her getting out, getting some distance, maybe landing a point here and there against him when he's weak. So I think... Some would say that's to her detriment in the public eye. It has definitely been one of the reasons why she's not more visible, but I think right now when you might have a president, and I think we certainly do, have a president who is facing the prospect of what will his legacy be. One of the things is, did he establish the prospect of making history again with another president, putting somebody in a position to make history again? And I think, after all, the first decision he made as a major decision he made as a nominee was who his vice president would be. And this is something that he's still proud of. And we're still not hearing who Trump's VP contender is. He's kind of gotten radio sound on this very point, but Katie, you know, to the frustration of many voters over the years with this disconnect between what a politician says in public versus what they're saying privately, and private, the messages according to reporting seems to be different, even if the White House is saying otherwise. And we should point out that CNN has similar reporting, but in your article, you quote a quote key ally of the president as saying this. He knows if he has two more events like that, we're in a different place by the end of the weekend. So the idea of two more instances, will voters and donors be that generous to give him three strikes in your out rule? I mean, clearly, Biden's wrong. Yes, I tell you a lot just now. Oh, I'm just exhausted. No, I think clearly, you know, his, his most vocal allies are out there right now in an effort to advocate, to buy him time and give him time, make his case. He wants to run. He's in control of the party and it's his decision. And that is all true. But donors are angry that, you know, they feel some of them feel like they were misled about the president's condition. Elected officials have been groucing privately that the president did not reach out to them personally until today. He, you know, he sort of went down a list of, of leaders. You know, there's publicly, yes, you know, the president is staying in. He told his campaign staff today that, but of course he's staying in. Of course he wants this to work out and for the page to turn, whether or not he can, he can address the private concerns that are becoming more public is another issue. Evan, it is his decision to make. He has earned the delegates, but he has many voices in his ear. And one of them is the course, his partner in life and the first lady, Dr. Jill Biden. Do you know if there is the support among her own team for her continued support in this manner? It's a speculation. I don't know. But what I can tell you is that she has been, and I think the little bits we've seen publicly is that she has been adamantly, almost fiercely supportive of him. The more he gets pushed and knocked back, the more she digs in, the more she leans into this. This has been at the core of their relationship for decades. And you have to remember, you know, she was, after all, around, after the 1987 presidential race when he and the family in many ways felt that he'd been pushed out. And she didn't like that. They took a lesson from that, which is we will never let somebody do that to us again. That was sort of part of the family lore. And so, you know, the armor is thick on that one, I think. That's an interesting comparison point. I think people forget about the breadth and scope of just how long they have been in this political machine. Evan, Katie, thank you both so much. And earlier, you heard President Biden speaking to a radio host in Wisconsin. It was one of two that were taped interviews that he did with Black radio stations. And the second interview was in the key battleground state of Pennsylvania. He spoke to my next guest, Andrea Lawful Sanders of W.R.D.'s, the source in Philadelphia. Andrea, nice to see you. We hear you often. So good to see you here today. How you doing? Oh, thank you so much. It's good to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Well, you know, everyone's been talking about the debate. You scored a huge interview and being able to converse with the president of the United States. And of course, you asked him about the debate performance. It was a source of a lot of questions about his future. What was his response? He said he did not do one in the debate, but it was the 90 minutes out of three years that he had been president, that he had a staff of people around him. He has created a lot of changes across this country, and he began listing them off, you know, when the COVID happened, then he was giving $1,400, and, you know, when he lowered the cost of insulin, he went and named some of those things that he had done in the three years that he had been president, I was listening to see if he was lucid, and he absolutely was. Now, you know, I do radio in the morning, and I tell you difference to radio and television. It's like a camera goes in front of some people's faces, and the same person who gave a dynamic interview on radio had some kind of lobotomy by the time the camera comes in front of their face. And so I always think about the way radio, you have to have a special set of skills when you are the interviewer, let alone the interviewee. He was not on camera. It was a scenario where he could have very well had someone with him. And did you judge that at all, or was he quick on his feet? Was he responsive immediately? I did judge that, and he was responsive immediately. I checked and listened, you know, because as a radio show host, you can tell if someone is reading something, or if they're talking, you know, speaking on their feet, he was speaking on his feet. He really got involved in saying things like, you know, Philadelphia, the amount of money that he has given to Pennsylvania alone, the student loan debt relief he has done, what he has given to HBCUs, you know, what he has done in terms of the Affordable Care Act. He talked about the Supreme Court and how they're taking away our freedoms and our liberties. He discussed Donald Trump and the fact that he wants to be a dictator. I mean, incredibly lucid. And I have to say this to you. When the debate happened last week, myself and a few other WID hosts were doing live commentating. And we were all concerned. Let me just tell you, let's be clear, we were all very concerned and folks were trying to figure out what do we do next. What I began noticing on our WID listening audience, from our listening audience was that they were saying, we don't care if you hold him in a hearse, we are not voting for anybody other than Joe Biden. They do not want Donald Trump, right? And so I thought this would have been the turning point for many of them. Now I have to be fair in saying to you that we have some young voters and some black men who are having issues about voting for Joe Biden. They don't really like either one of them. And so there have been conversations about third party voting. But when they saw what the Supreme Court had done in recent days, they all said, oh, no, we don't have a choice except to vote for Joe Biden in this election. And so I hope tomorrow morning with the interview airs on WID radio that we will hear some of what he said to me. I asked him about the debate. I asked him about what he has done for black folks in Pennsylvania specifically. I asked him, you know, every year we talk about, this is the election that means something for our lives. I asked him about why is this so different? And he went on to discuss that. And then I asked him, what would you say to people who are deciding to sit this election out? And so he can't lose it answers for all of that. So I hope people listen tomorrow and let us know what their thoughts are. Well, listen, talk radio listeners. They will not be shy about telling you exactly what they think about everything that you discussed. Real quick, Andrea, I have to ask you, did you ask him specifically about the call for him to step down? And would he support Kamala Harris if she were to elevate the top of that ticket? I did not. I did not. I had four questions that I was allowed to ask him and I asked him those four questions. But on Friday, when we go back on air, I want to ask the people to give me their opinions and what they thought of the scottabot about his stepping down. They didn't provide the questions. You obviously had your own questions for him, but you had a total of four and you could ask. That's you mean? Yes. Andrea, lawful centers. I can't wait to hear this interview. Thank you so much. Good to hear you in my ear. And now I see you in front of me as well. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure talking to you. Have a good evening. You too. Well, ahead, the world is closely watching what's happening here at home. Some of our allies are saying about the prospect of Biden leaving the race and NATO is coming to Washington next week, setting up another major test for President Biden. The top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee is here. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life Podcast. What does it really take to be the best? What does it mean to score a perfect 10? Especially when the world is watching in your country's pride is on the line. Cognitive scientist and the current president of Dartmouth College, Seon Bylok, breaks down what it takes for anyone to perform under pressure. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts. The uncertainty around President Biden's future fueling fear among America's international allies. The Polish Foreign Minister posted immediately after debate. It's important to manage one's ride into the sunset. A top ally of former German Chancellor Angela Merkel posted, Democrats have to rethink their choices now. And Germany must prepare at full speed for an uncertain future. And the former Swedish Prime Minister called the debate fairly disastrous. Even the Ukrainian president in the middle of fighting a war found himself answering questions about President Biden's age. You're 46 years old. Yeah. Would you do your job at 81? Oh, wow. I don't know. It depends on many things, of course. It depends on your health and who is around you, your team and et cetera. And the United States now, not in war. I think, I think being war, it's a lot of things. I don't know, I don't know. I only can to wish good, good health. Those questions don't be far from anyone's mind when the NATO summit kicks off in Washington next week. My next guest is the ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Democratic Congressmen at Gregory, makes Congressmen hello, and good evening to you. I have to say, hello, hearing that response from the Ukrainian president. Obviously, he's talking about wartime, and his job is not just leading a country, but in the war times that he finds himself and in the nation, and the whole globe is watching for these very reasons. But Stephen's reporting is that foreign diplomats watch the debate with, quote, "horror." And I'm wondering how worried you may be about some of our allies sounding their concern at a moment like this. I'm watching the debate in horror also. But, you know, I also know the work that President Biden had done to strengthen NATO to make sure that we're dealing with our allies in the Indo-Pacific to get Japan and South Korea talking for the first time to work with the Quad, bringing nations together. I've been in the room with him when we've had these conversations, and we were talking about dealing with Venezuela and what was taking place in Central and South America, talking about Haiti. So I've been there with him having this conversation. I have no question of what his ability is and what he has done to help unite and make the international world, at least those that are democracies, stronger. And so, but that night, that debate, it was horrible. There's no question about that. And I think that he has the opportunity now, as he said, and he continues to say, "Watch him," and he will be doing interviews and other things. I think he needs to do a press conference or two. So that people can see who he is and that he is on the job and doing the job. A press conference, including live question and answer sessions, would obviously perform that particular role. And you strike an important point here, Congressman, about the idea of what a debate can show and what governance can show and how voters are evaluating both in their own right, one would certainly want governance over one night at performance. However, there's a lot of attention on the NATO summit happening here just next week. And there are those who say he won't have many more chances to demonstrate governance and the experience that you say you've had with him. Could America standing in the alliance be jeopardized or hurt in any way? If Biden is not on his A-game in those rooms next week. He's been there, he's going to be on his A-game. He's been there. I just saw him and was with him in Normandy just a few weeks ago. And everybody was raving about him and his conversation and the way he was talking to President Macron. So there was no question or no issue then. When he was talking to the State of the Union, there was no question or no issue then. So to me, this is a one-out and I think that because it was so horrible, now he does have the obligation to have this interview with Steppenopoulos on Sunday to do a couple of some town hall meetings and to do a press conference that talked to the media in every God's. And I know there's a lot saying that he will do it without a situation where he's reading something or anything of that nature without a teleprompter. Although I'd say I've never seen a news media generally work. They work with teleprompters also. Anytime I go on, they have a teleprompter in front of them to read. So I don't see why he's getting criticized for that also. Well, yeah, the interview coming up on Friday with Steppenopoulos will be very telling to see what that entails and how he thinks on his feet in that moment. But then again, there is that divide between how voters, whether it's the economy, whether it's in administration, beyond how they feel about something and how a governor, a president, a congressperson wants them to feel about an issue. So we'll have to see. Also, we're told that during tonight's Democratic House leadership meeting, several people told Hakeem Jeffries that he should tell the president to leave. Did that happen? And where do you stand? I haven't talked to Leader Jeffries since that meeting. I'll have another conversation with him. But I'll tell you this. I'm not going to bet against Joe Biden, because I did once in 2020 primaries. I bet against him because he had my estimation. Two bad debates at that particular time, and people forgetting about that. And they wrote him off. I wrote him off after the second bad debate, but he became the president of the United States. And I began to work with him, and I could see and talk to him and know that he had his experience paid off. But thank God we had his experience with all that's going on around the world, was taking place in Ukraine and in the Middle East and dealing with Venezuela. So I think that Joe Biden will show he is, and he has been a president at the right time. And history will reflect that. All those things that he brought together, history will reflect the accomplishments of the president. You haven't spoken, you said, to Leader Jeffrey, since that call. But on that call, where are there people, members of Congress, who believe that President Biden should no longer be running? I wasn't on that call. I have not heard that. I've talked to several members. And I think that the members that I've talked to, most of them, want him to run as president. They think that he would be the best candidate to beat Donald Trump. And I think that also when you talk to others, what they want to know, they want to watch. They want another opportunity. The bait was horrible. And so they want to see him interact with the media or with it in a town hall meeting. They want to see him interact to see whether or not that was a one-on or whether there is more there to it. And I think that he's beginning and putting on his schedule. He's going to do just that. Well, we shall see how it all unfolds and these opportunities to hear more from the president of the United States. Congressman Gregory Meek, thank you so much for joining me this evening. Thank you for having me. Well, new numbers show that Donald Trump is widening his lead after that debate. That's next. President Biden now privately acknowledging to those closest to him that the next few days are so critical in his fight to save his reelection bid. And today we're getting a better sense of the real political fallout from last week's debate performance, a new CNN poll of polls, a combination of the four most recent national polls that meet CNN standards, finds President Biden beating president, President Trump beating President Biden by five points. It is the first poll of polls this year, showing the candidates separated by more than three points. Joining me tonight, former senior adviser Senator Mitch McConnell, Scott Jennings, and Democratic strategist, Julie Roginski. Thank you both for being here today. Julie, I'm going to begin with you here to put a bit of a finer point on this. The New York Times has a new poll out today that shows Biden losing to Trump 49 to 43. Now, that's a three-point swing towards Trump since the last poll that came out last week. And that's not good news for a Biden White House that are trying to downplay the debate's impact on this race, right? It's not good news. And for the life of me, I don't understand why it's taking so long for the president to get out there and to dispel what happened last Thursday. Look, it should not be taking over a week for him to sit down with George Stephanopoulos or another reporter. It should not be taking this much time to put together town hall meetings or even to have a collection of governors come to the White House to hear his case. It should not have taken him this long to call Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries. It seems that, for some reason, and I don't know what that reason is, that the West Wing seems to be paralyzed and the campaign seems to be paralyzed. This is a messaging problem for the president. If he's serious about staying in this race, and he's serious about proving to not just his own base, but to the rest of the country that this was a one-off fluke last Thursday, then by all means he has got to do a better job of getting out there and dispelling what happened last Thursday, otherwise these polls are going to continue to trend in the wrong direction. Scott, one of your thoughts on this, but particularly to Julie's point about getting out there, what would that look like? Are we talking about this epinopolis and there's others? But what does that look like to get out there? What's the most effective way? Well, let me answer Julie's question about why it has taken so long for the president to get out there. He can't. The last time he did an unscripted event was the debate. It'd be like if you called Kentucky Fried Chicken and said, "I'd like to interview Colonel Sanders." Now, his face is on the bucket. He doesn't make the chicken anymore. In fact, he's not even alive anymore. This is what the Democrats are asking people to do. Hold on. Vote for the face on the bucket. He doesn't make the chicken. He's got it at the kitchen. He's got it at the kitchen. He's got it at the kitchen. He's got it at the kitchen. He's got it at the kitchen. Well, yeah, I mean, Kentucky, do you not have, I mean, I'm in Kentucky, of course. No, I don't have one in my studio. No, I do not. Go ahead. Go your point. Go ahead. My point is this, where the presidency is not just a face, it's not just a brand on the bucket. The presidency is a guy or a girl and that person has to stand up every day, get up every morning, go to work, answer questions, sit with world leaders, take foreign trips and not need more than 12 days to recover from it. We don't vote for faces on the bucket. We vote for people, strong leaders who can execute in the office and that's the Democrats' problem right now. They don't have a strong candidate who can actually do what Julie just said, which I agree with, get out there and prove they're vigorous enough to hold the office. So it works for a restaurant, but it does not work for the presidency and that's why these polls are going the wrong way and they're going to keep going the wrong way. And by the way, he ain't getting any younger. It ain't going to get any better tomorrow or the next day or five months from today, I can assure you. >> Julie, interestingly enough, this is more than once we've seen a fried chicken bucket come into Congress. I was a Tennessee Congressman at one point, you brought it in, remember that moment? But I'm going to belabor the analogy, Julie, and ask you this, like, hey, I'm going to do it. Isn't the point for voters who has the most meat on the bone? I mean, it's one thing to have, the actual form of it. But in reality, Julie, it's about the substantive responses and to that point, Donald Trump has been criticized because he did not provide substantive answers. What do you think? >> First of all, I grew up in New Jersey, so if you want to have some White Castle analogies, I can talk to you. KFC's not my bag, they're Scott. >> I'll give you one. Joe Biden's campaign stinks worse than a White Castle right now. I could assure you that. >> All right, well, let me just say this, the Supreme Court gave Joe Biden and Democrats the golden opportunity the other day to talk about what is a stake in the selection. And what is a stake in the selection is an unhinged Donald Trump. I don't care how well he plays golf. I don't care how well he can do an unhinged rally for three hours like Fidel Castro. But what it did is give an opportunity for the White House and Democrats to talk about the fact that if Donald Trump is allowed back in the White House, the Supreme Court has effectively taken off the guardrails from him to be able to do everything that he's already said he's going to do, whether it was threatening to open fire protesters as the Secretary of Defense said he wanted to do the last time he was in office, whether it's to lock up Liz Cheney, whether it's to bill quote unquote camps to detain people, all of these things are things that he has said he's going to do and the Supreme Court has allowed him to do it. For the life of me, I don't understand why the White House is not out there pounding the drum on a daily basis to try to change the subject and to say that what does it stake here is the difference between a decent man who may not be the guy that you want to have there. He may not be your first choice. And Armageddon, which is what's going to happen with Donald Trump if he gets back in again and that's what's going to happen to this country. You want to talk about NATO? Gone. You want to talk about Zelensky who you just had a clip of? Ukraine gone. You want to talk about him praising China's Xi Jinping? He just did it. So there's a messaging problem that I plead with the White House and I plead with Democrats at the national level. So please understand you have to explain what the stakes are, the president needs to get out there and explain what the stakes are because it's not just about whether Joe Biden has lost a step. It is about the fact that the alternative is so much worse. Scott, Trump has stayed basically silent amid this entirety of all the fallout from the debate. Are you surprised by that and is he sitting pretty hoping that Biden does not do what Julie recommends? No, they're doing exactly what they need to do, which is nothing. He's running of his three campaigns. This is the best managed, best run campaign and it's obvious to me, he wants to win. The way he conducted himself at the debate, the way he's handled the last few weeks. I mean, remember coming out of that conviction in New York to right now has been the strongest period for Donald Trump's campaign. He's got a cash infusion, he's way up in the polls. The polls you showed tonight, I mean, if he wins the national popular vote by five or six points, you're talking about the House going bye-bye for Democrats. You're talking about Joe Biden dragging down maybe seven Senate seats. We're in landslide territory if these polls hold. So Donald Trump is doing exactly what he needs to do and, you know, I don't have much to say beyond listening to Julie plead for the White House to do something except one thing. They don't have a messaging problem. They have a candidate problem and most Democrats seem to know that. The only people that don't know it are the Biden family. You got Jill Biden on the cover of Vogue. You got Hunter Biden now running White House senior staff meetings apparently. I mean, it seems to me you're going to have to drag these people out of the White House by the fingernails. Julie, I'm sorry to tell you. You got 25 governors though, 25 governors and three came out in front of cameras today to show their support for the president. They're not members of the Biden family. Once again, behind closed doors, Joe Biden rides unicycles and juggles knives. I mean, he's as big. He looks real good behind closed doors. Let me tell you, that's what we've been hearing for three and a half years. These governors are now participants in the biggest cover up in American political history. The condition of Joe Biden has been hidden from us for three and a half years. Now these governors are complicit in it. We all saw with our own eyes Thursday night, we don't need governors to tell us behind closed doors. He's fine. I saw what I saw and so did every other American. It's quite the accusation, the level that 24 governors and the DC mayor all complicit in a cover up, especially when, I mean, there have been a number of members of different administrations and Congress included who have not answered questions about the state of their physical or mental being. And we know what I'm talking about. Scott, Julie, thank you both so much. Don't bring back chicken to my show. The Biden team now ramping up its media strategy to try to turn things around. The new ad blitz, the new interviews, and the coming presidential press conference all next. We've got breaking news on President Biden's first sit down interview set for this Friday. ABC News is now moving up the release of that taped interview with Biden. Instead of waiting until Sunday, it will now air as a primetime special Friday night along with a transcript of the unedited interview. Joining me now to discuss is Sarah Fisher, CNN media analysts, and your media reporter at Axios. Sarah, this is significant. I mean, moving up to Friday evening, to primetime, and then the unedited part is very significant. What's behind the decision, do you think? Well, you were just saying that Biden has been telling aides that these next few days are critical. And so what I think you're seeing is the urgency, wanting to get his message out faster, wanting the American people to see him, to feel his competence faster than perhaps even Sunday. And by the way, Laura, normally, you know, the press news cycle moves fast. Two days, though, is not something that the White House would have been its strategy for. But in this situation, it shows you how pressing this moment really is. You think it's his decision to move it up, not ABCs? I mean, ABC has a lot of value in bringing it sooner, but they also have value in bringing it to their Sunday show, right? So I can see both sides having an input here, but there's no question that this helps the White House. If this is a decision that needs to be made in the next few days, getting that message out sooner helps President Biden. The other thing, Laura, is that he needs to prove that he can do these unscripted moments multiple times, right? So you want to get the interview out and get reception out before you determine whether or not you're going to book more. Remember, he's doing a lot of things on his own terms, right? He's doing press conferences. He did that trip to Raleigh, but those are scripted moments. He needs to show the public. He needs to show donors. He needs to show Democrats that he can do non-scripted interviews. But until the ABC one comes out, they can't book others. And of course, you know, normally these debates are much later in the campaign seasons. They're usually back to back and you have that time to course crack next one's in September. And that's after both conventions, after both nominations. So it's a whole different ballgame right now. But is this interview with Stephanopoulos the whole ballgame? It's the biggest ballgame because like I said, it's going to determine whether or not his team is comfortable putting him out in other unscripted moments. It's also worth noting ABC has that debate in September. And so this is a moment for Biden to develop a repertoire with the network. This moment also is critical, Laura, because if Biden does want to make this decision in the next few days, he also has to rely on all the people around him, making sure he's informing their decision. He knows that his inner circle, right, his family, his close advisors are going to be watching this interview like a hawk. He doesn't want to put it off anymore. You know, who else is watching, mega donors? I mean, people who are wondering whether or not they want to keep giving money. And in fact, the New York Times is reporting that Reed Hastings, who is the Netflix founder and a Democratic mega donor, is publicly calling for Biden to step aside. Is he just the first perhaps domino of Hollywood leaders to make these statements? I've been on the phone with people from Hollywood all day. I cover media. That's part of my beat. You saw other folks like Aria Emanuel express concerns. He's definitely losing the room in Hollywood. And that's a huge deal, Laura, because he's had the support of Hollywood this whole campaign. Remember, Colin Joss coming to the White House correspondent's dinner and giving a tearful, almost, support and support of Joe Biden. You had mega donors all lining up behind these fundraisers with Steve Colbert with Jimmy Kimmel. So Biden losing Hollywood is a very big deal, Laura. And this does not seem like a one-off incident. It does seem like when I'm talking to sources, he's losing the room in Hollywood. Losing the room in Hollywood, though, doesn't mean that a sport goes to Trump, then could mean the pressure to have somebody else in his place. Would the room be, you know, heralded if it was Harris, you think? It's not the same. No. And by the way, on the Trump point, a lot of Hollywood is Jewish, and there's a lot of folks who have been frustrated with this White House response to what's happening in the war with Israel and Hamas. And so this was really important contingency for him to be able to prove that he's the leader they should put their support behind, not Donald Trump. And yet the frustration for campaigns can be that Hollywood is not the average person. Average voter in America, there's a huge disconnect. I wonder we'll translate to the voters. That's a big question of why this is being moved up as well, Sarah. Yes, and the big question, too, it's not just anymore the big donors, right? It also is small dollars. And that's where Donald Trump has done so well, even with his indictments, even with everything happening in his trials, Donald Trump has been getting a huge uptick in small dollar support. Democrats have, historically, always won that game. And so for Biden, this is critical, especially as the money gap closes leading up to the next few weeks. Sarah Fisher, thank you so much. Thank you. Well, here's a pressing question, this 4th of July eve, who do voters trust more to unite the country? Is it Biden or is it Trump? And can the boss Bruce Bing springsteen and his anthem born in the USA even bring America together anymore? We'll explain ahead. From politics to pop culture and everything in between, CNN's five things brings you the five essential stories to get you up to speed and on with your day, five times a day. Hey there from CNN, I'm Krista Bo with the five things you need to know for Wednesday. Follow CNN five things on Spotify, enable push notifications so you don't miss an update. Chris Springsteen's born in the USA in American anthem. You're shorty here as we come together to celebrate Independence Day tomorrow. But four months out from election day, a united America seems baby as unlikely as ever. More than a third of Americans, 39% believe that neither Biden nor Trump can handle uniting the country. It's a problem that maybe even Bruce can't fix, some 40 years after the release of that album, which inspired the glory days of bipartisanship. My next guest tonight, veteran rock music critic Steven Haydn, author of the new book, There Was Nothing You Could Do. Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA and the death of the American Heartland, a really fascinating book and you wrote that Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA was "a new spin on an old American political dream about meeting in the middle. In the mid eighties, the middle was Bruce Springsteen." So what was it about him and his meeting that allowed people to sort of see him as a bridge in that middle ground? Well, I mean, I think it starts with that title track. It's a song that on one hand is a pretty scathing critique of America. It's about this disaffected Vietnam veteran and how he was abandoned by his country. And yet the music is so uplifting. And I mean the thing about that song is that there's still people today that hear it and they hear those big drums and they hear the chorus and they think it's just like this patriotic song, but it's actually much more nuanced than that. And I think Bruce Springsteen was an artist who really tried to capture the totality of American's music, you know, the great parts and also the not so great parts. You know so many people obviously know the hook and I wonder if people know the full story as you described it, a really important thing to go through and think about what the music in the story is telling. As in Born in the USA, it might be one of the most widely used songs in American politics over the last what four decades, but it is quite misunderstood as you talk about it. It may sound patriotic, but the way that it's being used, I mean it really is a commentary about what it's like on issues that are of such consequence to politicians, to voters to this very day. And actually shortly after the song was released, President Ronald Reagan said this, America's future rests in a, well here, listen to him. America's future rests in a thousand dreams inside your hearts. It rests in the message of hope in songs of a man so many young Americans admire, New Jersey's own Bruce Springsteen. Talk to me about this moment because you write about that significance of this effort to wrap their arm around Bruce who'd become this great unifier, but there was some things that soured in the years to come. Yeah, I mean I think Bruce Springsteen is someone who has always been, especially in the last 20 years, has been pretty upfront where he stands politically and endorsing candidates from the Democrat party and speaking on certain issues. But there's always been an element too where people on the right look at Bruce Springsteen and they take what they feel like he represents about America, this hardworking guy playing three hour shows every night, sort of someone who is, again, critical of America but still believes in the American dream and the American sort of ideal. So it really goes back to the beginning with Reagan making that speech, I think in probably like a pretty cynical way, trying to exploit this very popular star. But we still see that today, again, like a lot of famous rock stars, pop stars, people take what they want. It's like a Rorschach test, really. It really is. It always reminds me of the James Baldwin statement, right? "I love America more than any other country in the world and that for that reason I reserve the exclusive right to criticize it." It's even hiding. Exactly. Thank you so much. Nice to see you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Now, before Biden can try to convince the American people that he can do the job, but the debate was just, quote, "bad night," he's got to convince his own party that he may have missed the kick that night, but he can still make the field goals that count. Earlier tonight, he faced Democratic governors and top congressional leaders at the White House and the governors. They asked for this meeting to see and hear from the president directly. Three of them said the conversation was candid and that they left hopeful. Governor Tim Walts said the president was fit for office. What we saw in there today was a guy who was the guy that all of us believed in the first time who could beat Donald Trump and did beat Donald Trump. But all the public got to see from the president today, well, was this. President Biden had a medal of honor ceremony reading from a teleprompter. He also collected two radio interviews. One of the hosts told me last hour, which is fine. He was very lucid, and he was answering quickly. Now, the president often says, "Watch me," when he's asked about his age. The problem tonight seems to be that he's not offering the public that immediate chance to really watch him and that has everyone from party members to the all-important donors to the extraordinarily important voters, perhaps worried. New tonight, we're told several Democratic lawmakers told Hakeem Jeffries that he needs to go tell Biden to drop out. So far, two members of Congress have now openly called for Biden to quit the race and reporting suggests the number who feel that way but haven't actually voiced it yet is much, much higher, which, of course, is nothing too frustrating for voters who just want to straight answer an opinion from their representatives. How do you feel in public and in front of the camera? And the polls are trending in the wrong direction. In a minute, Harry and Tim will walk us through new data on that in just a sec. And then there's the money. Donors appear fed up. The co-founder of Netflix, Reed Hastings, says Biden has got to go, and perhaps he's not alone. The New York Times reporter who broke that story will be my guest as well. So to recap tonight, Biden's facing signs that he's losing support from voters and donors and some of the elected leaders in his country and his own party, arguably three groups at any candidate needs desperately in order to win an election 124 days out. And it really begs the question, how does Joe Biden fix this? And can he, of course, correct in time? For insight tonight, we turn now to Chris Whipple, an award-winning author who covered Joe Biden in the book, The Fight of His Life, Inside Joe Biden's White House. Chris, good to see you again. A lot has taken place over the last week. I mean, the Times reported that Biden, quote, "understands" and he may not be able to salvage his candidacy, unquote, if he can't convince voters. So what does that tell you about where his mindset is? Well, color me skeptical about that report. I think it's quite possible that Biden might have said the first part of what was reported namely that he has to do well this week. But I can tell you that contrary to the drumbeat of reporting suggesting that Joe Biden is about to drop out, he's not going anywhere, at least as of now. You know, on Thursday night, there was consternation within the family. There was finger-pointing at the debate prep team, but they are really all in with Joe Biden on going forward. And I'm not even aware that there's been a discussion of dropping out of the race, much less Joe Biden somehow coming to grips with that fact. It's his call. He's got the delegates. We've had primaries. He is the presumptive nominee, all but the confetti has fallen on his shoulders and his head. Well, we are learning tonight that several lawmakers on a leadership call were telling minority leader Hakim Jeffries that he should tell Biden to leave the race. And we also know that Hollywood and some mega donors are also speaking out. Do any of these figures move the needle? No, not yet in any case. Look, this is not 1974 where Barry Goldwater is going to lead a delegation of senior senators and tap Joe Biden on the shoulder to step aside, at least not yet. I think that we would really need to see a critical mass for that to happen. And frankly, all of this just gets Joe Biden's back up. I mean, the Biden and his family have always felt that he's been underestimated time after time after time. This kind of thing just makes them want to prove once more that Joe Biden is a winner and that he'll prove them wrong. I mean, look, I am a subscriber to the notion of underestimate me. It'll be fun. But look, I'm not trying to be the president of the United States. And so you've got people who are looking at this idea. And I do wonder whether it will be motivating or demoralizing in the end and the voters will make that call. But we're also hearing from the East Wing tonight, the first lady is communication director telling CNN that the president has plenty of political and policy advisors. That's never been Jill's role. Do you really think that she would be sitting on the sideline at a time like this? I would imagine as his life partner and how much he has respected her and has respect for her that it would be her who could be as influential as his own voice. Yeah, look, hats off to Jill Biden wanting to be modest about this. But the reality is that she is his most important and influential advisor, period. That's just simply a fact. And frankly, if Joe Biden were to drop out, it would really be the result of some kind of family intervention led by Jill and perhaps Hunter Biden and Val and some influential friends like his old friend Ted Kaufman and Mike Donilon perhaps. But there's just no sign that they are anywhere near that kind of decision. As I say, both the family and the inner circle, I believe, are all on board. And there is no, at this point, no plan big. I mean, Joe Biden intends to be the nominee. Well, then what do you make, I know we have to go, but what do you make of that reporting that we've heard earlier this evening that he is keeping Vice President Kamala Harris close to him and she's attending various meetings, including the governor's meeting today to show and demonstrate that he's with her. There seems to be an intimation that it's because if he were to pass the baton, it would elevate her almost immediately, is that just because she's the vice president is running mate? Well, I don't know about that. I don't know that he's trying to send a signal that he's supporting Kamala in the event that he should step aside. But look, I don't think there's a plan B, but if there were, I think that it would have to be Kamala Harris. I mean, does anybody want to seriously suggest taking the nomination away from the first black vice president in the history of the United States? How would that play with the democratic base? I think it would be a suicide mission. Chris Whipple, thank you so much for joining. Good to be with you. Polls, polls, polls, one of the barometers that may tip the scale on whether president Biden steps aside. So let's go to CNN's Harry Anton at the magic wall for the very latest numbers. Harry, good to see you. What are you seeing in the latest polls? Yeah, nothing good for the incumbent president Joe Biden. As I note here, Biden's awful polling week and there's a reason why I use that descriptor. I don't use it loosely. Take a look here. Biden versus Trump margin. We got a bunch of polls that have come out post debate. Most of them are not good news for Joe Biden. They are very good news for Donald Trump, the former president of the United States. Look at this. A six-point lead in the New York Times, the end of college poll for Donald Trump. A six-point lead in the Wall Street Journal poll for Donald Trump. Our CNN SSRS poll, another six-point lead for Donald Trump. The only good poll for Joe Biden and I use good in quotations is a tie in the Ipsos Reuters poll. But when you average it all up, you have all of these polls. What do you see right now? Post debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. It's Donald Trump up by three points. That is a jump from where we were pre-debate, where Trump was up by just a point. But I honestly think that comparison pre and post debate loses a big part of the picture. The idea that Donald Trump is ahead by any percentage points is amazing, is astounding if you go back through history because four years ago at this point, Joe Biden had a lead of nine points. We've literally had a 12-point switcharoo in a matter of four years. At this particular point, Donald Trump is polling better than he has at any point in either the 2016, 2020, or 2024 campaign, these numbers, if you had shown them to me four years ago, I simply would not have believed them. I'm so glad you put that up there, that plus nine points because you have to wonder what happened to the six and over the course, before the debate even happened and what the voters are thinking about. I mean, is the age question an inescapable problem for the Biden campaign? I mean, in my opinion, it's a big problem, age is a huge problem for Joe Biden. Look at this, Biden is too old to be an effective president. Look at this number, 74% of the electorate post debate. I don't know how you escape a number like that. I should note that that is up from where we were pre-debate when it was 69%, but 69% is still pretty large, compare that to four years ago when it was just 36% at this point. This number has more than doubled over four years spent. This is a big reason why Joe Biden is behind at this point. And I should note, only 42% of voters say that Donald Trump is 12, and one little last thing for you, Laura. You have these numbers here. We showed you how different from where we were four years ago at this point. I want to put this in a little bit of historic context for you. Who led an early July presidential polls? Right now it is Donald Trump. You go back 2020, 2016, 2012, 2008. You have to go all the way back to 2012, all the way to this side of the screen to find a time in which a Democratic nominee was not ahead in the polls at this particular point. Donald Trump is not just in a good position for Republican. For himself, he's in a good position for a Republican. The best position since 2004, there are people who are going to vote in this election weren't alive to see a Republican as in a strong opposition. At this point in the cycle is Donald Trump is that's fascinating. Harry, thank you so much for bringing that perspective. Yoda versus job of the hut. Well, that's the analogy that some donors are latching onto as they try to keep money flowing to the Biden campaign. According to the Wall Street Journal, some donors see Biden as the Yoda frail yet wise and influential. And Trump is jabber to hut. And gluttonous and powerful gangster. But sources suggest the force is not on Biden's side right now. The New York Times, Teddy Schliffer reports, "Big donors are turning on Biden quietly." You know what? He joins me now. I don't worry. I won't ask you any analogies for Star Wars if you want. I mean, you know what I mean. Ask him any questions I could. But I won't. Teddy, Netflix co-founder was calling for Biden to step aside and a top Hollywood producer is proposing, quote, "a Dembargo, Dembargo, no checks written, no act blue links clicked for anyone until there's a change at the top of the ticket." This is just two weeks, by the way, after that star-studded fundraiser. How bad is this that this is happening now? So immediately after the debate, let's say Friday, Saturday and Sunday, it was hard to find a Democratic donor who was not overcome with anxiety. What's happening now over the last 48 hours, based on my colleagues' calls to major donors, is people are beginning to act on that anxiety. We're seeing things like boycotts. We're seeing things like promises to hold money aside for a replacement candidate. Donors are acting on this anxiety, and donors are also speaking on the record. You know, Reed Hastings, who just a year ago, gave $100,000 to support Joe Biden in 2024. And his wife had given over $20 million Democrats over the last five years. He's coming out and saying that Joe Biden should not be the nominee. He didn't have to say that. People a couple of days ago were scared when we wrote that donors were quietly feeling this way. That's so 24 hours ago. Now people feel empowered. And this is just the first of, we're just getting started here. I think it's very possible by the end of the week, or when, you know, after the interview that Joe Biden does, that we might see most major donors speaking up one way or the other. So... What about grassroots donors? I mean, is that obviously the amount of money you just articulated can far surpass with any individual person, the average person could ever give? Is it... Could it balance out? Are these donors enough to put their thumb on the scale to influence not only Biden, but the pressure campaign against him? That's a good point. I mean, I think lots of major donors right now are unsure of their own powers. Be partly because there are tons of small donors who see Joe Biden getting attacked in this age of partisanship. They rally to the flag, and you know, the Biden campaign has posted some of its best fundraising days of the entire race on some of the worst days of the entire campaign for Joe Biden. That's not a coincidence. And then the fact that all these small donors are coming to, you know, beat up Trump and boost up their guy makes all these major donors, billionaires and people who are so used to being kings of the universe question, like, can we even do anything? And that's a pretty unusual position for these, you know, pretty arrogant people I'll say to be in where they're looking for Joe Biden's cell phone number just like anyone else's. And look, this is not a vote of Joe Biden's donors. This is a dictatorship where Joe Biden and Joe Biden get to decide to do whatever they want. And whether or not there's pressure from these major donors, it's interesting and I think it sets the context that Joe Biden is making this decision within. But they don't really have that much control and that leaves wealthy donors to threaten boycotts. We're going to set aside money from Kamala Harris. The Biden brass says, who cares? This is up to him. I'm going to follow the money. That's the, sometimes I'm going to say the oversized role of money in politics, but it does do a lot of talking and you're right to describe it tonight. Thank you so much, Teddy. Sorry for your time. Well, if President Biden stays on the ticket, could it keep Democrats from winning the house? One Democratic candidate running in Colorado says yes. Adam Frisch joins me next, plus CNN learning a potential succession plan may very well be in the works if that's a big if Biden steps aside. And of course, involves we are seeing on the screen, device president Kamala Harris. President Biden getting a much needed boost from Democratic governors during a meeting at the White House tonight. President Joe Biden is in it to win it. And all of us said we pledged our support to him because the states could not be higher. And fears are mounting that a ticket led by Biden could cost the party the White House and perhaps a chance at controlling Congress. One Democratic lawmaker told CNN candidates running in competitive districts are bracing and fearing for the worst. Quote, they are saying they are going to lose if they have to run with Joe Biden. Well, joining me now, Adam Frisch, Democratic congressional candidate from Colorado's third district, and he is publicly called for President Biden to withdraw from the race. Adam, thank you so much for joining me this evening. You just heard some of the governors coming out after meeting with President Biden tonight and they were enthusiastic in their support. They said they understand that this is all about winning. What is your response? Well, if it's about winning, we need to find a new candidate. You know, listen, I'm not a political pundit, but I have driven 40 57,000 miles over the past couple of years. And the boots on the ground, Democrats and the penance Republicans know full well that what these 27 polls are saying, and unfortunately, the president is not fit to serve and he's not going to be able to win. I'm not sure when I spoke out publicly about this, whether it's good for my campaign, but it's certainly good for the nation. And that's what I'm focused on. It is really bad that not only Republicans, but now Democrats are saying one thing publicly in a different thing privately, and that is why so many people are frustrated with both parties. And I'm trying to run based on the country, not a party, and it's really, really disappointing to see what's happened over the past couple of weeks. You're right. Voters who were frustrated for years about the idea of what people said in private versus in public. And that can sour voters about participating overall in a democracy and God knows having the couch as a third party candidate, essential to our entire democracy. But I wonder about the down belt races like yourselves. Are you really concerned about other democratic races of people aligned with Biden or do you think that voters are going to distinguish the nuance between those who might be in Congress and those who would be in the Oval Office? No, thanks for asking that question, Laura. Listen, first, starting off running against Lauren Bobert over two years ago, it's been a story about focusing on Team Colorado's third district, not Team Red or Team Blue or Team Democrat, Team Republican. I am out there trying to talk about securing the border, trying to get inflation under control, and trying to figure out how to get more mental health care in rural parts of America. And so I'm not really that focused on who's on the ticket, on the presidential, whether it's a Republican or Democrat, I'm just focusing on convincing people that I'm the best person to be in the House of Representatives, representing them and their families in the businesses. You know, I do wonder about the clock. I mean, obviously, time is not on anyone's side when you think about the overall arc of one's life. However, there is a real clock, a political one right now. If Biden decides to step aside, it could create some chaos of a contested convention. Now, that could, on the one hand, be a catalyst, people leading in all the more and hearing the speeches, hearing galvanizing messaging as well. On the other hand, it could show some uncertainty, which is not what either party really wants going into a convention or an election. Do you have concerns that this fallout and continued conversation about that debate performance is creating chaos among voters, even for races like yourself? Yeah, and this is what I'm hearing, again, from Democrats and independents, Republicans as I drive around Southern and Western Colorado. And it's why I said two years ago that I was with the 75% of the people in the country that do not want to rematch. The Republicans went through an open competitive primary. The Democratic Party should have done it in itself, and now it's coming back to Biden. And there's still time to figure out how to have a different candidate. I'm not going to get into horse racing in different levels of that conversation. I'll leave that to the pundits. I can just tell people that the current president with all the respect needs to step down from the race and try to figure out how this next generation of candidates can rise. And that's what we want to focus on. There's a lot of exciting things out there. And I would love both candidates that are running for president of the major parties to go to the convention and step aside. I know that's not going to happen with one. We need to figure out what to do on the Democratic side before the convention, for sure. And that's why I've asked President Biden yesterday with a heavy heart that he needs to step down. You know, Democrats are sometimes accused by their own voters of eating their own. You know, there is a circular firing squad mentioned by former president Obama during the 20, I think, 2020 debate process and beyond. And there's a concern that Democrats often look for the so-called political moral high ground over what might be in their own party's best interest compared to Republicans. I do wonder if there is an unfair focus on 90 minutes versus 33 and a half years of governance or do you think that's the absolute appropriate thing to consider given the timing of another four years, prospectively? Laura, this issue is this. Only in politics is stating the obvious so hard to do. I just don't get it. I mean, this was not a one-off night. It was obviously a horrible night. But there's a reason, I guess, the president did not want to go up for what is considered a softball interview on the Super Bowl and has ducked most a lot of press conferences compared to the last presidents. Again, this is the punditry conversation. I'm just relaying back that this is not a one-off thing. It's obvious that the president, with all the respect, is not ready to be able to serve another four years. And as well, he can't win. And we need to figure out from our deep bench of a wide variety of personalities and perspectives to get out there. I'm not going to get involved in who that is. I'm not really focused on that. I'm very excited after this last conversation I've been having over the past day and a half with a lot of viewers out there to get back in the pickup truck and start talking again to the Pueblo steel workers and the people that are producing energy in the western slope of Colorado. And it's party. It's truly time to put party away in both sides. And I wish more people did that running for Congress. The polls that matter, the voters themselves. Thank you, Adam Frisch. Happy Fourth of July, Laura. Thank you. Well, President Biden is publicly saying that he is going to stay in this race. But CNN is learning a succession plan may be taken some shape if he steps aside. We've got the details for you next. Well, the ground is rumbling beneath the Biden White House. But while the president is adamant that he is not leaving this race, CNN is learning tonight that Biden is keeping Vice President Kamala Harris pretty close. Several party officials and advisors say a succession plan is starting to take shape. And if Biden steps aside, he will immediately throw his support behind Harris and release his Democratic delegates. A top campaign advisor saying of Biden, quote, "he's with her." Let's break this all down now with Meghan Hayes, former special assistant president Biden. And so if the announced and ACN and opinion contributor and former House GOP investigative committee counsel, we begin with you tonight, Meghan, on this. Are you concerned that these conversations are even taking place? Do you think they really are? Or is he keeping her close because she's the vice president? I think she's keeping her close because she's the vice president. And of course, he's with her. He chose her to run as he's running me and they successfully beat Donald Trump in 2020. So of course, there's a succession plan. He will get reelected and then she can run and he will support her in four more years. Like, this is not, I don't understand why this is a surprise to anyone. I do think that, but people don't see behind the scenes as the vice president's always been around. She's always been part of our, part of their administration, excuse me, my former boss. And so I just think, you know, I think that people are just reading into the tea leaves a little too much here. And I think that people just need to give him space, let him do his interview on Friday and like, let the chips fall where they may and just let him decide what he's going to do. But he's been making it very clear and she's also been making it very clear that she is supportive of him. Is this a bunch of do about nothing? It doesn't feel like that performance. Is that Shakespearean? Nothing. Listen, tomorrow is our 248th birthday. I see by your outfit. This is a very serious moment. I'm going to take the president at his word that he's running again. They put out a statement. That's what they've said. I believe him. But I think to answer your question, this is not much to do about nothing. We in the fourth estate have a duty to question the fitness of the president after a performance like that. However, we also have a duty to question the fitness of the other candidate running. And I'm concerned and I've been frankly upset over the last number of days because I feel like it's a pile onto President Biden. It's good to question him, but we're not questioning Donald Trump and his fitness. These Epstein files are something we in the media have got to cover. I know we're busy with other things, talking about naps and things like that. But the reality is Donald Trump has a moral character problem. He's a convicted felon. The Supreme Court has gone rogue. Our article three branch out of control, the Congress has been out of control. And now the executive is in question. We're in a crisis as we head into our 248th birthday tomorrow. And I think this is a very serious moment. Well, many would look at this not as a pile on, but as a mountain of concern that if there is a chance for the reasons you speak about, if the opponent is Donald Trump, as he is going to be, he's the Republican nominee, then one must climb and overcome that mountain to make sure he does not become a president again. Is it piling on? I mean, I think that people are piling on. I think that to your point, the criticism is fair. But I think also the president since Thursday night has gone out every day and been in front of the press and done an incredible job fighting for the American people and showing the people that he is capable of doing this job. So I think, you know, I understand the criticism. It's totally fair to do that, but also he needs to show the voters that he is capable of having that job. He doesn't need to show the chattering class that he is capable. Laura, why agree with that? The other guy has to show that he's deserving of the office and sitting there and hurling names and tweeting ungodly things and just, again, I'm going back to the Epstein files. I'm not going to talk about them on TV because they're distressing, but we have got to take seriously these type of allegations against someone that wants to hold this office. January 6 has happened, indictments have happened, convictions have happened, Donald Trump is not morally fit to be president. So we ought to be on that every day and we ought to be having questions of his campaign staff every day about what is going on with your candidate and we're not doing that. That's what I feel it's piling on. Well, walking into a gum is possible. You're certainly right. And there is also a number of top Democrats, Sophia, who are calling for a kind of, I guess you'd call it a "speed it up" mini primary and an open convention, perhaps. I want you both to listen to what they're saying. I do think we need to have an open democratic process if Joe Biden is not the nominee, and I do think Vice President Harris would be a very, very top contender in that process. We need to have the kind of competition and open process rather than some backroom deal to get us the best possible candidate. The process is already in place to make it a mini primary, and I would support that, absolutely. Megan, are there risks of having a kind of mini primary because some would question that sort of the backroom deal of, "Okay, I voted for one person, you've got delegates, not having somebody else?" Well, the problem there is that the vice president's name is on those ballots. And so they also voted for her. She also is entitled to the financial fruits of the labor that they raise all this money together. So I just, I mean, I don't actually know what the rules are with the convention, et cetera, but I just think that we have to take, she has a higher name ID. She's beating him in some of the polls, the early polls that have come out. She has a financial advantage here, and so I'm not sure that doing a split primary or having that kind of conversation is really what the party needs. The party needs to focus on beating Donald Trump, and they need to let the president decide because right now he is not stepping aside, so this is like all premature conversations and kind of just eating up airtime that we should be focused on how they're going to be Donald Trump. Well, I think the politics of a hypothetical become relevant when the voters are mistrustful of the fact that it is really a hypothetical, and that's the investigation of every prudent journalist to figure out what is really being told and what it means. I want to play for both of you an ad that's made by a super PAC for Kamala Harris back in 2019, and by the way, according to Politico's Jonathan Martin, it seems to be floating around some Democratic circles now, listen. I'm asking you a very direct question, yes or no. I don't think I'm not remembering. I do want you to be honest. I'm not able to be rushed this fast, it makes me nervous. Kamala Harris exposes Republicans. She makes them nervous and leaves them unable to defend their lives and corruption. She'll do the same to Donald Trump. Of course, Megan's point she was on the ballot when they were voting as well for the Biden Harris ticket, and you have written about this as well and the idea of her being a force to be reckoned with if she should elevate to that particular role. But as a vice presidential candidate, she already, these discussions are already happening. I remember Nikki Haley saying a vote for Biden is a vote for Nick for Kamala Harris as well. What do you make of this sort of thing floating around even now? I think the vice president's been clear. She is the vice president. She's backing her running mate Joe Biden. She's been firm and loyal. Look, obviously, I believe what Jim Clyburn said, you cannot go around the first African-American woman vice president and just skip over her if he steps side. I think she's the person and she's the one. We will see. Thank you to you both. And definitely will continue next. The other big case for Fulton County DA, Fannie Willis, and it's running into just as many problems as the one against Donald Trump and his co-defendants, Young Thug's gang trial on pause after a series of delays and the rapper's dad is now speaking out in a CNN interview. I say the indictment is bogus because period. The criminal racketeering case against Grammy winning artist Young Thug has now been postponed indefinitely. And it's in part because the defense is accusing the judge of misconduct, wanting him to be recused from this case. That's not the only irregular occurrence in this now 18-month trial. Young Thug's lawyer Brian Steele sentenced to 20 days in jail after he was found in criminal contempt just last month and still, there's more. CNN's like Valencia has the story as well as an exclusive interview with Young Thug's dad. It doesn't take much to get any loving dad talking about his son, especially one who feels partly to blame for getting them into trouble. Jeffrey Lamar Williams has taken that idea of loyalty and turned it into a worldwide image as the artist Young Thug, a Grammy award-winning rapper who promotes his YSL brand, Young Slime Life. Young Thug's alleged the term is euphemism for a life filled with street crime. Young Thug's dad claims it's a gangster rap gimmick, and the reason Fulton County DA Fannie Willis wants to make an example out of him. Prosecutors have used testimony from co-defendants already tried for their crimes, as well as rap lyrics from Young Thug's own songs as purported evidence. The violent crimes were committed at the rapper's behest. He denies the charges. Willis and her team are juggling a lot, including prosecuting Donald Trump in a separate racketeering case in the same courthouse, just five floors above. Why do you think the DA is trying to use Jeffrey Williams as an example? If he didn't have a name, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Speaking to us from his podcast studio, Williams Sr. said his son is no gangster or crime-boss shot-caller involved in a street war. As alleged by investigators, he insists his son's only wrongdoing was hanging with the wrong crowd. Is there any merit to this indictment? Was there ever a war going on between Young Thug and YFN Luci? Were you ever targeted? Was your safety ever at risk? Young Thug's trial is already the longest in Georgia history. The jury selection process alone took nearly 10 months. The Rico case has been unwieldy, featuring no shortage of bizarre moments. A co-defendant accused of a hand-to-hand drug exchange in the courtroom, another co-defendant stabbed multiple times inside the county jail and earlier this month, a secret meeting with the prosecutors, the judge, and a key witness without any of the defense attorneys, which led to the case being paused indefinitely. While motions are heard on the judge's possible recusal, the president of the Georgia Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers says the meeting itself is grounds for a mistrial. Ashley Merchant represents Young Thug's attorney Brian Steele in the matter. It has gone off the tracks. There's too many charges, there's too many defendants being charged, there's too many witnesses being called, and obviously the state has a right to prove their case, but they also have to ensure that there's due process. The case has dragged on for months. That's a major concern to some defense attorneys who spoke to CNN who wonder if DA Willis is misapplying the Rico statue. Fulton County District Attorney's Office told CNN they can't comment on the case at this time, but former Fulton County prosecutor Tanya Miller says casting a wide net with the Rico charge was the right move. It allows you to get at crimes that perhaps were committed in the past, right, even if someone has already been convicted of it. Murder, extortion. Yeah. They're alleging that they all happened at the behest of your son. But my son did not convict me further. And as any loving father would, he hopes for his son's case, it stays that way. Millions across the country have followed this case closely, hundreds of thousands of whom have tuned in to watch this case live to see all the twists and turns. Currently, a Superior Court judge here in Fulton County has been assigned to review whether or not Judge Glanville will be allowed to stay on this case. If he is recused, that would be a nightmare scenario for Fannie Willis. The bottom line here is that the Fulton County DA has had her criminal case against Donald Trump paused, and now this one is too. Laura. Nick Valencia, thank you so much for that reporting. And ahead, the WNBA taking center stage in the fight for reproductive. On and off the court, WNBA players are keeping their unrelenting activism front and center ahead of November. And the issue driving the conversation, reproductive rights. The joining forces with my next guest voting rights advocate and former top Democrat in the Georgia House, Stacey Abrams. I also want to welcome WNBA PA, vice president, pro women basketball player Brianna Turner. So great to have you both here at this evening. How are you? I'm doing well. Happy to be here. Excited to be here. I'm glad you're both here, and there is so much to talk about, including what you've decided is the mantra is recently Brianna and the get out the vote. So important. Stacey, let me begin with you here for a moment because, you know, the get out the vote initiative is going to be very important, but there is a bit of a panic that is happening right now in the Democratic Party. This following the debate that happened just last Thursday and they're deriding the performance of the president of the United States, should Biden step aside? Should he remain on the ballot? Biden is our president, he will be our nominee, and he will be our president in 2025. Well, I love that you have very, a lot of confidence about this issue. I do wonder, Brianna, from your perspective, when you hear this and think about not just this particular race, but if there is a lack of enthusiasm at all on a number of issues, you have a concern about voters wanting to turn out and actually vote. And I know one of the reasons you all have been so instructive about getting people motivated is about turning to social justice movements and why they've been so important. And I have to commend the WMBPA for doing that these past at least few years. This time it's about reproductive rights. Why did you choose this message at this moment? We're athletes in a woman's league. We play in 12 different states across the country, so we know it's such an important issue. We know our rights change depending which state we're playing and which city we're in. We already know that for the states we currently play in have either totally banned or restricted, heavily restricted abortion access. So we want to make the voters know the fans know that our bodies are on the ballot this fall. This is the first presidential election, Stacy, where Roe v. Wade has been overturned. Do you think that it's still going to motivate voters to get out knowing that Supreme Court justices aren't really on the ballot in terms of the consideration of who they'll be appointed? Will people really still be motivated in spite of Roe v. Wade no longer being the law of the land? In the last presidential election, we had a candidate, Joe Biden, who stood up for women's rights, believed that women should be protected at all costs. We had a president who was sitting at the time who had put in place three Supreme Court justices and those three justices helped overturn Roe v. Wade. So it is not hypothetical that reproductive freedom that a woman's right to control her bodies on the ballot. We have seen it happen. We saw the last time that Donald Trump was in the White House. He stripped women of their bodily autonomy. And because of his decisions, women in 21 states cannot make decisions about their reproductive choice. We know that if he is reinstalled in the White House, he intends to strip us of access to IVF, access to contraception. And this is not hyperbole. It's what he said. And so it is absolutely on the ballot because the president of the United States signs those bills that will take away our rights, appoints those judges that will deny us our rights. But we can also have an opportunity to put in place a president who has protected those rights, expanded access to contraception, expanded access to reproductive choice, and believes that a woman's right to choose is inviolable. So it's not only on the ballot, it's going to be on the hearts and minds of every woman casting a ballot. And if we do our work led by the women of the WNBA, we will get the job done and we will make certain that we can protect our right to choose. Let me turn to you on this issue, Briana, because you know, many people would shy away as either a league or as an entity, individual players as well, would want to extend a 10-foot poll away from politics. They don't want to be rolling in the mud or being perceived as such. And yet the WNBA and the WNBA has been very resolved to lean into matters of such consequence. Why have you all chosen to do that? We believe that reproductive rights are human rights. This doesn't seem like a political issue to us, this is just a human issue to us. We want to advocate for people to have rights over their body, lead autonomy. I mean, we're athletes in a women's league, these impacts impact us so much. And we just see it as a human's issue. It's not even political for us, it's just speaking out for human rights. Briana, the whole point of democracy really is to get people to participate in their own destiny, to have a say. And this is a time when you've used your platform in a variety of ways to shine spotlights on various issues. And there's also a huge spotlight right now on your league, at least since the entrance and the arrival of players like Caitlyn Clark. And your own teammate, Angel Reese, do you have any strong things with how people have been perceiving this rivalry and the impact of it on your sport and league? I think for me just watching them, I see two competitive players just want to go out there and win and do it all for their team. I think a lot of people try to put them against each other and say and compare them, but I really think comparison is the thief of joy. I mean, these kids just came out of college, they both crossed the stage a couple of months ago and now they're excelling. I think they're really taking advantage of the moment, the momentum and the movement. And I think they're just excelling and really bringing a lot of eyes and fans to our league. And I'm really excited to see how their career progresses. I'm going to write this down. Comparison is the thief of joy and I'm going to staple it and tape it everywhere I find it. That's going to be the thing I'm going to say to everyone from now on. I'm so glad that you're both here and you're using the platform in a way to inspire people to engage and participate and be the change they want to see. And again, that t-shirt now, I want to come and comparison is the thief of joy. Stacey Abrams, Brown and Turner, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for watching. Our coverage continues. We have so much technology. We have the ability to control so much in our lives. We still can't control Mother Nature. It really is a terrifying experience. Violent Earth with the Leop Shriver now streaming on Max. [MUSIC PLAYING]
