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Tonight, John Adams could not have been more wrong about the job of vice president, which he described as quote, "the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination can see." No disrespect to John Adams. It just never occurred to him that America would have a president like Donald Trump. Trump, that can be argued, sees the job of vice president as very significant. ♪♪ Good evening, I'm Jim Acosta, and for Laura on this Friday night, the last time Donald Trump had a vice president, it ended like this. ♪♪ With a mob of Trump supporters storming the Capitol, demanding to hang Mike Pence, punishment for not going along with Trump's plans to subvert the 2020 election. As we all witnessed, Trump saw the job of vice president as an ace in the hole for maintaining the presidency, no matter what the voters decided. This time around, Trump is likely applying a Pence-proof loyalty test before he picks a running mate, someone who won't let him down no matter what. And it appears Trump has maybe started to narrow down the short list. CNN is reporting that Senator Marco Rubio, Senator J.D. Vance, and North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum are considered the top contenders at least for now. And behind the scenes, it turns out they each have a network of influential voices bending Trump's ear trying to convince him to pick their guy. For Senator Rubio, he has Fox News host Sean Hannity and Kellyanne Conway in his corner, not bad. They argued he'd help Trump with Latino voters in key swing states. Rubio even recently won a straw poll at a high dollar dinner last month that Trump attended. J.D. Vance has some MAGA originals backing him. The president's son, Don Jr., Steve Bannon, and Tucker Carlson, all pulling for the senator from Ohio, seeing him as a fighter for the MAGA cause. Governor Burgum, meanwhile, is getting backing from big business. The Rupert Murdoch News empire has been praising him with flattering editorials from the New York Post and the Wall Street Journal. Not flashy, but mature, they wrote of Burgum. The governor has something else going for him. He appeals to Trump's love of central casting, picking people who looked the part. And according to Fox Business, Burgum really looks the part. Katie Pavlet, you just met her? Yes. She says you look like George Washington. You look just like George Washington. Focusing on him. I don't know if we have a handy picture of George Washington. She claimed Katie's a very smart woman. And my only question is how long have you looked like George Washington? Apparently about ten seconds. This is news to me on that. George Washington? Not John Adams? You have to wonder, especially for Rubio and Vance, if Trump will be able to look past as he would put it, the nasty things they have said about him. I can't stomach Trump. I think that he's noxious and is leading the white working class to a very dark place. You know what they say about men with small hands? You can't trust them. Would you ever do business with Donald Trump? I don't think so. Why? I just think that it's important that you're judged by the company you keep. Alright, joining me now, former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh, former Obama campaign adviser Amisha Cross, and Washington Post columnist Philip Bump. You guys probably didn't think we were going to do a John Adams reference on a Friday night. But here we are. Burgum, Rubio, and Vance are the top contenders. It seems right now, Joe. A lot of people are in Trump's ear. I mean, what do you think? What's going to happen here? I actually think that unlike in '16, Jim, I think Trump thinks he's going to win. So I think he's kind of unchained. I think he's going to do it every once, not listen to his advisers. What we know is this, whoever he picks is going to have to say Trump won in 2020 and it's going to have to say the deep state is after him now. Outside of that, I don't think it matters. Yeah, I mean, Amisha, Joe's got a good point. I mean, in 2016, it seemed Donald Trump needed Mike Pence to some extent. And folks have been kind of applying the Mike Pence model to Doug Burgum this time around and that he kind of fits the same role. But maybe if Joe's right and Donald Trump thinks he's going to win, maybe he does go for a JD Vance, somebody who appeals to like the next generation of MAGA folks. I think that's right. The ground game has changed significantly since Trump first ran. And at this point, because he is the leader of the party, that has been proven multiple times over, he also has such a strong hold on the base that he doesn't necessarily need someone to help him pull along some of these more hard-to-reach states. And I don't think he's worried about that. Would he want to someone who will be a strict loyalist? He wants someone who will not, you know, shake the apple cart too much because he wants to be the star of the show. He also wants someone who will not run in 2028 because they think he's looking to have his son hoisted up in the next election cycle. Right. That's interesting. And Philip, I mean, you know, you and I observed a lot of this during the Trump presidency. There is no other human being on the planet who could have been more loyal to Donald Trump than Mike Pence. I mean, remember when they were going around the cabinet room table and they would all, you know, we would call it sort of the dear leader treatment that they would give Donald Trump? You know, it was just something to praise him. And nobody praised Donald Trump like Mike Pence. It was just something to behold. And I have to think Trump likes that and wants that this time around as well. I don't know. Set me straight. What do you think? No, I mean, that's very true. I mean, I remember that it's time when Donald Trump moved his water bottle off the table and Mike Pence moved his water bottle off the table. And it was that level of synchronism. You know, I think Joe raises an important point here, which is this is Donald Trump. He talks news and is like, Hey, this person should be, you know, in my administration, or, you know, is walking along with his valet and then taps him for a senior post. Like, who knows, right? We go through the machinations of talking about, you know, who's on his shortlist. But he could throw someone on the shortlist 24 hours before he actually announced it. It's just, you know, it's always up in the air with Donald Trump. I think that all the observations are correct, that he doesn't want someone to overshadow him, that he wants someone who's going not along with him wherever he goes. But there are lots of people who fall into that category. And so I think that, you know, until we actually hear a name, I would be pretty much just, no one would spy. You know, it basically is anything short of Hillary Clinton would not end up being surprised. That might be a little bit of a surprise, but I get your point. And Joe, I mean, you know, the thing that I wonder about is those clips we were playing earlier, they've all bashed Trump in the past, especially Rubio and Vance. I mean, Vance has made Hitler comparisons to Donald Trump in the past. Marco Rubio has talked about Donald Trump saying, those are things that he absolutely hates. Doug Burghum, maybe I wouldn't have done business with him. That doesn't, I mean, that's, you know, not exactly on the same level. Jim, that's a great point. Yeah. Those three went after him. And even when Burghum says I would never do business with them, that's a really big deal. But here's what else Trump loves. When you said something bad about him and then you come to him and you're on your knees. That is true. And now you're the greatest thing in the world. The Lindsey Graham example. Boom. These three are all that. That's very true. I mean, who should the Obama, excuse me, Freudian slip there? Biden Harris, a team worry about this time around. What do you think? I don't think they need to worry about any of the VP candidates. They think that they need to keep eyeing Donald J. Trump because he is a widely fellow. He's the one who is completely unpredictable and looking at, you know, even with the felony convictions, it seemingly has only helped him in terms of fundraising capacity. And it hasn't shrunk, it pulls our to believe, be believed. It hasn't shrunk his capacity to maintain gains in the battleground states. Yeah. The Biden campaign has to be most worried about turning out younger voters, black voters, ensuring that they show up in November. Yeah, Phil, what did you make of this, you know, Trump floating this idea of giving green voters to Ford and students after they graduate? I mean, you know, here's what Steve Bannon is saying about it. How about this is an alternative. We cut in half the number of foreign students we take in the country and allow American kids to get into those engineering schools. The exit visa should be clipped to the diploma, the exit visa. Now, I mean, apparently Trump has walked back some of these comments saying there should be an aggressive vetting process, but I mean, it also really clashes, uh, filled with what Trump has set out on the campaign trail about migrants, uh, you know, poisoning the blood of the country and so on. What did you make of that whole 24 hours of news that that generated that comment? I mean, I thought it was really revealing. I mean, it was Donald Trump recognizing that people who immigrate to the United States have value, which is something he generally doesn't say, right? And I think the most telling example I wrote about the state of the post was the fact that he has spent over the course of the past several months. He keeps talking about military age males trying to imply that younger people who are coming to the country are dangerous somehow. He literally said that China was sending people to the country to set up a secret army within the United States. But the people who we're talking about here are obviously military age because they're college age students. And the one of the largest countries that is represented among the foreign student population in the United States is Chinese people, right? So it is the case that there are young Chinese people who are attending universities who he understands have value and add value to the United States in the context of going to school, but he refuses to acknowledge that immigrants otherwise do. And so I thought it was really revealing because it showed the contradiction at the heart of immigration laws. Yeah, Joe, I don't know what you want to say in response to that. But there was a moment that flashed right here that maybe Trump is thinking about Marco Rubio and putting around the ticket because that idea from Trump sort of sounded as though he's trying to moderate his tone on immigration just a touch. And it made me wonder is Rubio maybe making some inroads here? Maybe. I think you're giving Trump too much credit for thinking this through. I think he... Look, the base of the party is not there. The base of the party. And look what Trump did for four years when he was president. He limited as best as he could legal immigration. That's where the party is. Unfortunate. Family separation. I mean, that was among many policies, draconian policies. Absolutely that. And I would say Republican-led xenophobia and nationalism. This does not walk in lockstep with Donald Trump when he was president or anywhere on the campaign trail up until this point. But I think he's being more responsive to the recent policies out of the Biden administration moving towards creating pathways for DACA recipients more so than anything else. I don't think that this has much to do with a potential VP pick as much as it is. Hey, the president just released this a couple of days ago. Let me jump into that news cycle on that front as well. It is receiving pushback from the base that he created that really doesn't want to see any form of immigration reform. Yeah. And Phillip, it could be just as simple as something that flashed at his head one moment right before he said it publicly. I mean, at this point, we just stopped. Phillip, I did want to ask you because I still have this on my mind from my show, my 10 a.m. show yesterday, Van Jones saying if Joe Biden has a bad night during the debate, this could be it. Do you subscribe to that idea? I mean, when you talk to folks, what are you hearing? And I did. We have time quickly just to ask each of you that. Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, it is still early. It obviously depends on what the bad thing is. But, you know, there's lots of time to recover. And I think a lot of the age stuff is frankly baked then. Yeah, Joe, I agree. It would have to be a horrible night. Yeah, and you just don't see Joe Biden. I don't see that happening. What do you think of me? I don't see that happening either. The expectations are obviously higher for the sitting president than they are for Donald Trump going into this. But I do think categorically and historically, we've seen sitting presidents in their first, in their first debate, not necessarily knock it out of the park. But we know that Joe Biden is putting in so much effort here. He is, he has some of the best and the brightest training him walking him through this process. He knows what he's doing. He's not going to fall in. And he wanted this early. He's got a lot of pros. Biden folks did want this early. And I do get the sense that the Trump folks, including Donald Trump, realize that they set the expectations too low for Joe Biden in recent weeks. Just every day talking about, he's wandering. They turned him into Mr. Magoo. And if he doesn't perform like Mr. Magoo next Thursday night, obviously he's going to have a good night. And somebody whispered in Trump's ear and said, "Maybe we should knock this off." All right, guys. Thanks a lot. Really appreciate it. Religions entering the 2024 campaign with the new controversial endorsement from Donald Trump. We'll talk about this in just a few moments. Less than a week away from the first presidential debate on CNN. Could it change the minds of voters who are undecided at this point? We're going to talk to two of them in just a few moments. Stay with us for that. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. And one thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. Because with every fix, update, and renovation, it becomes a little more your own. So you need all your jobs done well. For nearly 30 years, Angie has helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. From plumbing to electrical, roof repair to deck upgrades. So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Hire high quality certified pros at Angie.com. They say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep Number Smartbed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft. Sleep Number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep Number does that too. 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Power 2023 award information, visit jdpower.com/awards only at a Sleep Number store or sleepnumber.com. November of 2024 is binary. And when you look at the difference, I would ask people to really imagine what the world will be like on January 20, 2025. In six days right here on CNN, voters in America will see President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump face off for the first time in four years, but with one similar goal in mind. Aiming to portray their rival as unfit for office, but is that what voters are looking for? Come next Thursday, I want to bring in two undecided and independent voters to weigh in. Caitlin Wanda of Florida and Brandon Nelson of Minnesota. Guys, thanks to both of you for coming on tonight, staying up late on a Friday night for us. We appreciate it. Brandon, let me start with you first. You voted, apparently you voted for President Biden four years ago, but you're undecided this time around. Why? That is correct. I voted for Joe Biden for President in 2020 with my hopes that we would chart a path of courageous, moral leadership in the Oval Office and several issues since that time have led me to regret that vote at this point. Such as? My principal issue right now is the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas. My recently became a new father. No, keep going, please. Sorry for the audio delay. That's okay. I recently became a new father, and that's come with a whole wealth of new responsibilities. And one of the big ones I find myself thinking about is what kind of a world I want world I want my daughter to grow up in. For my entire adult life and most of my childhood America has always been at a war footing. And I was hoping that we could perhaps shift more towards a time of peace. That's the world I hope that she'll grow up in. And I don't see the current administration taking the steps necessary to make that happen. And Caitlin, let me, what's holding you back now? You know, to be honest, I try to keep an open mind. I think that there's a lot of expectations on how to vote. Just from within my family, within my community and my culture, but I wanted to really understand what was happening and look at the issues side by side and not just be fueled by emotion before starting to draw my conclusions. And I really am looking forward to the debate next week as well. Just to hear the candidates speak, I think there's so much misinformation available today. And again, it is so emotionally charged that it makes it difficult for us to discern the facts from the feelings. And Caitlin, what are you going to be looking for in the debate? Well, on a very superficial level, I think that there is a lot of misinformation about Joe Biden and calling him Sleepy Joe and saying that he is incapable of filling the role of the presidency, which is being supported by videos that don't really represent his capacity, right, or his ability to lead. And I think looking and hearing and seeing how he presents himself live on that stage next to Trump is going to be really important for a lot of viewers, myself included, just to really validate and reinforce if he still has the capacity and what his stance is, what is he going to be changing or doing differently in the next eight years, four years. Brandon, what are you looking for at the debate? What are you going to be watching for? I think debates in the past that I've viewed often come down to moments of messaging opportunities to get that sound bite in there. I would really like to hear a substantive conversation about what are the concrete steps that the administration, both current and potential administration plan on pursuing with their four years. And Brandon, I mean, Minnesota has gone Democrat over the years, but now it's a little bit more of a swing state. Do you know why? Can you put your finger on it? Well, it's a little hard for me to speak to the whole demographic of the state. I can say what I hear people close to me say, and that is that a lot of us have grown frustrated with feeling like our political leaders do not represent our values and what we want to see as a people. I guess it would be easy to say that we've maybe become cynical or disconnected from the process, but I think maybe a little bit deeper than that. We want to feel like our leadership has our best interests in mind, and many of the people I talk to in my daily life, both work professionally and also in other avenues. What I hear from them when the conversation of politics comes up is they say, you know, I don't really know what's being done with my tax dollars, or I know what's being done with it and I strongly disagree with it. So we feel like there are a lot of very common sense issues that could happen locally and nationally reforms that could be made to improve the everyday lives of Americans across the spectrum. And we feel like our government is pursuing other things instead, oftentimes issues I just feel like they're there to divide us. Well said, Caitlin Brennan, a great conversation, very thoughtful comments, and you're both going to vote though, right? Yes. All right, good. All right, that's what counts. All right, Caitlin and Brennan, thanks very much. Let's continue this conversation now with Polster Frank Luntz. Frank, you talked to undecided voters all the time. This is your bailiwick. What's your reaction to what we just heard from those two undecided voters? And what are you hearing just generally when you talk to folks about what's going on right now with the election? It's a tiny fraction of the American electorate that actually matters. I don't mean to dismiss people from other states, but there really are only three states right now that are truly in play. Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. And within those states, there's really only three or four percent who are actually undecided. There are a lot of people who say, I don't know if I'm going to vote for Joe Biden, but I'm definitely not going to vote for Donald Trump, or they'll say vice versa. And that's not really an undecided voter. They simply haven't made that commitment yet. But in the end, affordability is the number one issue right now. Immigration is the number two issue for young women. It's abortion rights for older voters in health care. These issues are significant, but I need to correct one thing that was said. The truth is, voters aren't voting on those specific policies. They're not looking for a 50 page fact based report. Some detailed plan of action. They're going to use based on the personality, based on whether they feel that person is decent, civil, kind, considerate a leader, someone who can get results. We vote on attributes, not on issues, and that's what I'm going to be looking for come next week. And do these debates have an impact? I asked the panel this earlier on in the program, maybe you saw, but I talked to Van Jones about this the other day, and he was saying, Joe Biden has a bad debate, that's a game over. And you talk to other folks in Biden while they say that's way over the top. But there are some in the Democratic Party who are concerned that if the President does not have a good debate, that could be a problem. Well, mark my words. If he doesn't have a good debate, if he has issues getting the words out, if he gets tongue tied, which people do, but if it happens to him, the expectations are so, are so defined right now. And the fear among Democrats is that Donald Trump wins. The fear among Republicans is Joe Biden wins. If this is not a vote for someone, it's a vote against someone. And if Joe Biden has a bad debate, if he has trouble with Trump, if he can handle him, mark my words. Within 24 hours, you're going to see all sorts of Democrats saying, we need a different candidate. I'm not predicting it. Joe Biden has a way of rising to the occasion. When he debated Paul Ryan, he was the underdog. Biden won that debate. When he debated Donald Trump in 2020, a lot of it was Trump's over the top criticism, but Biden did well in those debates. So let's not lower expectations on him. But that's where the pressure is. Not Donald Trump, but on Joe Biden. And for Trump, what is the biggest risk, alienating women? I mean, might he step in it by going after Hunter Biden? You know, there's a whole slew of voters out there who may not respond well to going after somebody who's been battling addiction and so on. Well, I'll tell you, we saw this in the sessions we did in 2020. In that first debate, when Donald Trump would not keep the time, kept going over his allotted limit kept on attacking Biden again and again interrupting him, bullying him women respond to that undecided women. They hated it. And Donald Trump slipped a few points and I think that had an impact on the final election. If Trump goes too far, beat him up too much, women who are important in this election won't like it and they'll take it out on him. So that's his greatest challenge. Yeah. And, you know, Frank, the other thing that we're learning, and this goes back to something you were saying earlier, is that Trump's going to be campaigning in Virginia the day after the debate. This latest Fox News poll of Virginia voters shows Biden and Trump at a dead heat. I'm a Virginia native. I just, I'm sorry. I don't believe that poll. I don't. I do not think Joe Biden is neck and neck with Donald Trump in Virginia. You see it that way. I suspect what you said earlier is correct that really there are only three states and it's that, that old Democrat blue wall that has to hold for Joe Biden. And I still see it, but I do know that Minnesota is now up for grabs. And that state Republicans have looked at, but they haven't won it since 1972. They say like Iowa, that Republicans are supposed to win by eight or 10 points. Trump is up by 18. There are three critical groups here, young African American men that tend to vote Democrat overwhelmingly. One third of them are supporting Donald Trump. The Latino vote, the Hispanic vote, which tends to break for the Democrats by 15 or 20 points. Right now, Trump is almost even. And finally, union, rank and file union members. Government unions are pro Biden. Teachers unions are pro Biden. But among all the other unions, it's split 50 50. So Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan have all large segments of those votes. And it's why Donald Trump is dead even or even appointed to a head in those three key states. Fascinating. All right, Frank, once we appreciate it, as always, glad to see you're doing well. Thanks a lot for your time. Thank you. All right, just to have Manhattan prosecutors are pushing to keep a modified gag order on Donald Trump after a wave of threats against the district attorney Alvin Bragg, including one that said, quote, your life is done. How the judge could rule on this next. They say opposites attract. That's why the sleep number smartbed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you, whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft. Sleep number does that. You want to sleep cooler. While they like to feel warm, sleep number does that too. You have to feel it to believe it. Find the bed that's for both of you, only at a sleep number store. Sleep better together. JD Power ranked sleep number number one in customer satisfaction with mattresses purchased in store. And now sleep number smartbed starting at $999. Prices higher in Alaska and Hawaii. For JD Power 2023 award information, visit jdpower.com/awards only at a sleep number store or sleepnumber.com. On a Monday morning in May, 1992, a 20-year-old woman is murdered in her home. Her husband of just nine days comes home from work and finds his high school sweethearts stabbed today. Her name is Jennifer Judd. Who killed Jennifer Judd? In this new series, we'll attempt to solve a 32-year-old cold case. Listen to who killed Jennifer Judd on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tonight, Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg laying bare how much of a threat he believes Donald Trump continues to pose to people involved in the Hush Money trial. Bragg asking Judge Juan Mershan to extend the gag order in that case because of constant threats saying, quote, "The need to protect participants in this criminal proceeding and the integrity of the criminal justice process from defendants attacks remains critically important." Bragg isn't covered by the request, but he knows better than anyone about these threats. His office has received more than 500 threatening emails. In phone calls, according to a new filing just today, 61 threats were against the DA, his family and employees. The NYPD says, four have been referred for further investigation. That's how bad it is. Some of these ominous messages go like this. We will kill you all. You are dead. Your life is done in RIP. But the DA suggested that witnesses in the case no longer need to be covered by the gag order, meaning people like Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels could be potentially vulnerable. Joining me now is in legal analyst Elliot Williams and Tiffany Wright, former law clerk for Justice Sonia Sotomayor. Elliot, this is just outrageous. That this is still going on. And it almost seems as though there's just nothing that can be done. What do you think? Perhaps not. But what's lost here is that this idea that because the trial is over, in some reason, we have to move on. And the judge maintains jurisdiction over the proceedings until the defendant is sentenced. And that includes something like a gag order. If, in fact, the defendant or any party is continuing to make statements about the judge, the prosecutors, their families, witnesses, whatever else, the judge, you know, the prosecutors can still push for that gag order. And the judge ought to enforce it for the integrity of the proceedings and sentencing being an important part of the process and needing to play out in a reasonable way ought to be protected. Yeah, Tiffany, your thoughts? Yeah, I think, I agree with all of that. I would also say that there is a room in the First Amendment for the judge, I think, to go a little bit further. I think even under the most stringent scrutiny, you're not permitted to engage in speech that interferes with the legal proceeding. You're certainly not allowed to engage in speech that poses a threat to others. And we can see from these messages that it's gotten really dangerous. And so I think there is room under the First Amendment to even go a little bit further while the court's jurisdiction continues. And why would the DAC that witnesses like Sturmer Daniels and Michael Cohen can be dropped in the gag order? I mean, one would have to think they're still getting threats, and that's what I think. They are. I mean, I think, you know, to the specifics of what's going on here, none of them are going to testify before the court, again, for the purposes of sentencing. So you could make an argument to take them out. This is really about the court, the personnel, the prosecutors, and the people who will be weighing questions as to the defendants sentencing. That makes sense. I do want to turn to the classified documents case, which is just unbelievable. Judge Aileen Cannon held a hearing today in Trump's classified documents case on the appointment of Special Counsel Jack Smith. Trump's attorney is saying he was illegally appointed and acting like a shadow government. What do you make of all this? You know, I think that legally, there's no such thing as a shadow government here. It's just as fake as the deep state and pizza gate and whatever of the other conspiracy theories and fever dreams that folks come up with. I will say that with respect to Judge Cannon, I think part of what we're seeing is I think that being a district court judge is the hardest job in the federal judiciary by far. And so I think some of this is a little bit of an experience her trying to find her place, but some of it is a willingness to engage with these sort of ideologically questionable origins of these arguments that come from the voting. The willingness to kind of hear anything out and that's not what a judge does. No, no, no. And I don't think most judges would have given this particular argument the time that she gave it today. Yeah, I'm not in the business of pop psychology, which is what you say before you pop psychology. I apologize someone, but you know, agreeing with everything about being a trial judge be exceptionally hard. Let's add one factor and she has the background as an appellate lawyer, where lawyers who work on appeals, you know this well as well spend a lot of time on esoteric rabbit holes. I'm trying to test the bounds of the law and so on. And there might be some of that here, but there's also, I think it's fair to say, whether it's an ideological or philosophical difference. That's guiding some of these decisions that might be some of it. Now, let's be clear. This judge is not being removed from this case. I think folks have in their heads that somehow Jack Smith can wave a wand and remove a judge just because she's issued some rulings that are clunkers. That's just simply not how it works. Sometimes you get judges that are favorable to prosecution. Sometimes you get judges that are favorable to defendants. And that's just sort of the luck of the draw. And it's unfortunate for the prosecutors here, but they really don't have a lot of recourse. Yeah, and Steve Bannon, we should talk about Steve Bannon, he's making this last ditch effort to stay out of jail, asking the Supreme Court to pause his prison sentence while he makes this appeal for his conviction on contempt of Congress. Does he stand a chance here? No, absolutely not. He's going to jail. He's going to jail. He will meet the same faith that Peter Navarro met when he tried the same maneuver a while ago. Without question, go into jail. There's no, and let's just talk about what the law says, an individual who has been convicted while he is pending his appeal can be kept out if there's a substantial likelihood that he's going to win or is raising a novel legal issue or something like that. The court that has looked at this already said that's simply not the case. It's a straightforward matter. He just doesn't want to go to jail. That's not a basis for being kept out. Nobody wants to go to jail, but something you want to do when you're convicted doesn't want to go to jail. And Tiffany, you know, you, we mentioned earlier, you worked for Justice Sonia Sotomayor. Do you have any thoughts on how long this is taking for the immunity case at the Supreme Court? It's a delay that's really, really hard to explain. I mean, we saw when it was a case on the other end with the Colorado Trump being on the ballot. They decided that heard it really quickly. I think the delay here is really inexcusable. And I think, you know, last time I was here, we were talking about ethics and, you know, what happens when a justice gets $4 million over the course of his career. And these are the sorts of seemingly small decisions, right? The ability of a justice to say, I am writing something separate and I'm going to delay the process of writing that. Until it's advantageous for someone politically, right? These are the sorts of things we have to worry about when we have an ethically compromised Supreme Court. That really would be on your mind. Yes. If you were wearing one of those robes, whether your colleague, because of free stuff he's been getting, might be pulling a fast woman. Absolutely, which is why ethics are important. We do not want even the appearance of that. And I would not want to have that person as a colleague. Yeah, and Elliot, I mean, we remember a time when we just didn't even think about this stuff when it came to the Supreme Court. I mean, I guess, in a bygone era, I suppose there were questions and things that came out from time to time. Yes, that's true. I mean, I think the court, what is all exposing? I think we're moving from talking about the timing of the case to the ethics questions around the Supreme Court. The court is left to place itself. And their rules just sort of say, trust us. In 2023, they put out ethical rules that really don't have any teeth. And so, if in fact, the justices misbehaving, it's really up to the nine of them in this private room that nobody gets to be in to decide who gets to sit off cases and so on. So, stop us. Is there a message that no one's going to? Yeah. It's going to be such a big decision when this comes down. And maybe we've been making some predictions. Maybe it'll be next Thursday on the day of the debate. Wouldn't that be a career ball? Tiffany Elliott, thanks a lot. Really appreciate it, guys. Thanks so much. Donald Trump embracing the new Louisiana law requiring the Ten Commandments. If you heard about this that has been said, we're making it mandatory to post the Ten Commandments in public schools. Should it supercharge the religious right? Could it do that? Someone who's been on the inside of the Christian nationalist movement has some thoughts on this. He joins me next. Now shall not kill. Now shall not commit adultery. Now shall not steal. Now shall not bear false witness. And now shall not covet my neighbor's house. At least one for ten. Not bad. Jimmy Kimmel poking a little fun at Donald Trump for his support for a new law in Louisiana that requires the Ten Commandments to be posted in every public classroom in the state. Trump defending the law on truth social posting quote this may be in fact the first major step in the revival of religion, he says, which is desperately needed in our country. Louisiana Republican Governor Jeff Landry agrees pushing back on criticism of the law today. I didn't know that it was still viral, vile until beta Ten Commandments. I think that that speaks volumes about how eroded this country has become. I mean, look, this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and every time we steer away from that, we have problems in our nation. The ACLU is blocking or suing to block the law. The Supreme Court has stopped Kentucky. We should know from implementing a similar law twice, but more states could follow in Louisiana's footsteps tonight. The second most powerful politician in Texas is vowing to push for a bill requiring the Ten Commandments in schools there. The issue has long been a rallying cry for people on the religious right and my next guest should know Bradley Onishi served as an evangelical minister for seven years and consider himself a Christian nationalist. Before leaving the church to study religion and extremism, he's the author of preparing for war the extremist history of white Christian nationalism and what comes next, Bradley, and I'm on his title, but a very important subject. You've been inside the Christian nationalist movement. What do you make of this new Ten Commandments law? Well, this is not something new and it's not happening by accident. The call to restore the country to its covenant with God has been a rallying cry among Christian nationalists going back to the 1960s when they believed the country was stolen from them. This is why so many Christian nationalists have found a home in the MAGA movement because the nostalgia politics at play in Donald Trump's campaigns fits nicely into a vision of the country that says we once were great, but we departed from God's vision, and now we're lost. And for Bradley today in Washington, Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley spoke at the Faith and Freedom Coalition Conference and openly called for more religion and government and schools. Let's listen. We don't need less Christian influence in our society. We don't need less Christian witness in our society. We need more in every part of government in every part of society. You don't have to do. We ought to take the pride flag out of schools and put the Bible back in. Is that just rhetoric? It's not just rhetoric. And we know that. And I think the Ten Commandments bill is a really good example. This didn't happen by accident. This is a part of a coordinated effort by Christian nationalist organizations that want to impose Christianity on all of American society. The Ten Commandments bill came from a group called Project Blitz, which represents about 40 different Christian nationalist organizations, and they work with state legislatures every year. They pre-write bills in the hope that they'll be sponsored and passed into law. Now they only usually have a few victories per year, but when they have a signature one like the Ten Commandments bill here in Louisiana, it's a, it makes them think all that hard work is worth it. It also signals something that I think we have to be aware of when it comes to Senator Ollie's comments and others who are talking about this across the country. They're willing to play the long game. They're willing to keep putting forth bills, having most of them not pass, but warming up our society, continuing to warm the waters of American culture to the point that we will eventually get to a boiling and have a fully fledged Christian National Society where one view of faith is imposed on the rest of us. Well, and you know, this Ten Commandments law has been thinking, I mean, isn't this kind of a slam dunk Supreme Court case, if and when it gets to the Supreme Court, the establishment clause of the Constitution says you cannot have, you have to have a separation between church and state. I mean, that's a sort of like, you know, high school government 101. Do you do not see it that way? Is it possible as the Supreme Court trends in a harder, more conservative, right wing direction that perhaps that that may be overlooked? I can't imagine that happening. But what do you think? A law like this was struck down in 1980 and one would expect it to be this one to be struck down now. I'll say two things here though. We have a court that is full of surprises over the last month. I think we've seen that every time we've heard something new about Justice Alito and the flags flying over his house, not to mention some of the rulings that have come down over the last couple of terms. So it's a gambit at the court right now, and I don't think anyone knows exactly what will happen. But I think there's a larger lesson here too, which is to say, if this is struck down, it just gives Senator Holly and Governor Landry and others around the country more fuel to the fire to play the victim to say, well, look at this. Look at those who would throw God out continually from our society. Those are the ones who hate America. Those are the ones who are against American flourishing. I can't believe that they would stand up here and say that God's no longer allowed in the United States. It's a way to play the victim to mobilize a base and to divide the country in a us versus them kind of way. All right, Bradley Onishi. Thanks very much for your time. A lot of great thoughts there. Love to have you come back and talk about this further really important topic. Appreciate the time tonight. Thanks, sir. Appreciate it. In the meantime, new tonight, NASA announcing another delay for the return of two astronauts aboard the International Space Station. The crew reached the ISS via Boeing Starliner earlier this month, but their return has been delayed due to issues with that spacecraft. NASA had originally said they'd return no later than June 26. But now NASA is putting that off with those scheduled return date plan. Here's CNN's Gary Tucker. >> The launch from Florida was picture perfect. The Starliner spacecraft manufactured by Boeing, a test flight on its way to the International Space Station, successfully docking with the ISS just over two weeks ago. The two astronauts on board the Starliner, which Wilmore and Sonny Williams. >> So here we are in the front of the International Space Station where our spacecraft docked. >> But even before they docked with the space station, and as they gave this tour of the Starliner, they knew the trip wasn't going to be exactly routine. >> Let's go forward into Starliner where there was a little bit of action the other day. >> The action involved spacecraft issues, specifically helium leaks and thruster problems that have delayed the two astronauts returned to Earth. >> The bottom line is that helium leaks are about, you know, pretty small. NASA says they can tolerate about 100 times what's currently leaking. Had five thrusters fail on the way to the station. Four of them have been reactivated. One remains disabled. Shouldn't keep them from coming home safely. >> But it has kept them from returning to scheduled. NASA declaring. >> We're taking a little bit of extra time to work through what we've seen and make sure we have all the plans in place to bring the crew home in an nominal situation for the intermission. So we're just taking a little more extra time to review all the data and also learn as much as we can while we have the service module in orbit. >> Despite the problems, the atmosphere on board with all the space station astronauts has been nothing less than jovial. >> Congratulations to all the NASA and Boeing teams on this incredible milestone, which in sunny, the ISS flight control team is thrilled to see you back on ISS. >> This is Boeing's first docking with the ISS after numerous issues and cost overruns, which have led to corporate embarrassment and uncertainty. And now there is more of that, as engineers on the ground are working to learn more about these problems that have plagued the journey. Despite the issues that surround the Starliner, the two astronauts appear to be taking it all in stride. >> I'm not sure we could have gotten a better welcome. I mean, we had music, we had poja, Matt was dancing. It was great. >> Gary Tuckman, CNN, New York. >> Thanks to Gary and thanks to the team here for taking care of me all week. Laura's back next week. Thanks very much for watching AC 360 is next tonight. >> They say opposites attract. That's why the sleep number smart bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft. Sleep number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep number does that too. You have to feel it to believe it. Find the bed that's for both of you, only at a sleep number store. Sleep better together. J.D. Power ranks sleep number number one in customer satisfaction with mattresses purchased in store. 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