TNT Radio host Patrick Henningsen speaks with Dr Piers Robinson founder of the Organisation for Propaganda Studies and editor of Focus on Propaganda, to discuss the recent reemergence of 9/11 in the news following Saudi Arabia’s lapsed petrodollar agreement and why the Saudi angle in 9/11 is likely a red herring, like similar distractions like COVID’s ‘lab leak’ theory, and the Ukrainian sail boat plot with Nordstream. Also, is NATO preparing a large false flag event in Europe, shades of Operation GLADIO – in order to kick start an escalation against Russia?
More from Piers Robinson: Propagandainfocus.com PiersRobinson.com Substack Ic911.org X/Twitter
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I'm gentlemen. Today's news talk news information T and T radio welcome back to this live broadcast. We're still in the first. I really appreciate you joining us and big hello to everybody in the T and T chat community. Great to see our thriving group of listeners and viewers in there and the links the activities. That's where you want to be hanging out during the program. Great group of people in there and we salute them for their ongoing efforts. Now let's move over to a very important conversation and welcome on to the stage. Very special guest. He is among many things. The founder of the organization for propaganda studies. He's also a founder of propaganda and focus a great publication the International Center for 9/11 Justice. He is also with that organization and also Berlin Group 21, exposing the lies of the OPCW and the chemical weapons attack, alleged chemical weapons attacks in Syria, Dr. Piers Robinson joining us right now from Europe. It appears great to have you with us. Hi Pat. Good to be with you. It's great to be with you too. Piers now I want to get straight to one of the main points when it is discussed with you as you're very aware. Piers the issue of 9/11 suddenly surfaced into the mainstream media over the last couple of weeks and kind of an interesting angle and coincides with Saudi Arabia's expired deal with the petro dollar and lo and behold just as that situation develops we start seeing the fingers being pointed at Saudi Arabia for their involvement in 9/11. Now this is a very interesting angle but of course this is the surface narrative that's presented by the mainstream media. I want to get your thoughts on this and what it's distracting from in your opinion because I think there's a little bit of deception and misdirection going on. Go ahead Piers. Yes. I mean this is broadly speaking a potential limited hangout process which is underway in terms of pointing the finger at Saudi Arabia. Of course it's been a very long standing legal battle by families of victims of 9/11 to take legal action against Saudi Arabia on the basis that members of the Saudi government were involved in 9/11 and that's I think it has been a very genuine battle by those families to try to get to the truth of what happened on 9/11 and of course even from the start of 9/11 of course you know people pointed out at the time that most of the hijackers were Saudi. Of course the Saudi elite members were famously flown out of America short notice immediately after 9/11 Prince Bandar or Bandar Bush is his known teacher head of Saudi intelligence very close to Bush administration and so on. There's always been sort of a lot of noise around the issue of Saudi Arabia and so on. Why this is coming out now with it seems to be sort of a kind of a trickle of information coming out. There was of course these the links between the hijackers and to the hijackers in the CIA which came out a year ago you know the great piece by Karen Glogan on that and now this is information coming out as a result of this legal process by families of victims you know pointing the finger pretty much at elements within the Saudi government and it does fit 40 speaking to somebody of working with IC 911 and in terms of focusing research wise on 9/11 and it's been well understood that Saudi Arabia is one of the key players likely to be involved in the instigation of what is a false flag or a manufactured war trigger primary people involved people within the US deep state I think it's the evidence points very strongly in that direction and we're well beyond the point of which that's arguable in a sense that the evidence we have on controlled demolitions in New York and so on is overwhelming and that all implicates essentially the US deep state if you want to call it that and so on and so that the Saudi link is you know it's been there for a long time and it is part of the bigger picture where this is a limited hangout is that yeah the finger is being pointed at Saudi Arabia as you alluded to these shifts in the international system and all the issues surrounding the petro dollar and so on and everything that we're living through at the moment you know get accused by criticized by someone for talking about the multipolar world and so on but let's just talk about it in terms of the shift in the distribution of power and alliances are breaking up and new alliances are forming in the international system and in that context of the US it's very plausible that there might be a motivation from the US as it were deep states in order to punish Saudi Arabia or to try and pull it back into the folds and so on by leaking this information or not leaking but allowing this to now become an issue that Saudi Arabia can be formally implicated in 9/11. For sure I think that's you know probably what's going on. Before sort of conceding that we should all just be entirely cynical about this as I mentioned about the families of the victims you know it's been a genuine struggle on their part to get to the truth and there is this is part of the truth of 9/11 and so although it might be exploited as a limited hangout in order to put pressure on Saudi Arabia or even to try and deflect attention away from growing awareness in the west about what happened on 9/11 and there's been a lot of you know a lot of traffic in the last year Russell Brand had Ted Walters from IC 911 on I think Kim Iceland a lot of the and Jimmy Doar a lot of the quite high profile independent media have been covering 9/11 so there might be a kind of desire can we push the attention over to Saudi Arabia as it becomes more and more awareness of what happened you know within the US that this is a manufactured war trigger so that might be part of the motivation but in all of this if it's this is operating as a limited hangout it's a pretty tenuous one at the end of the day because the path or the road from Saudi Arabia to the Bush family as I pointed out before is a very very short one and so I think if there's any kind of sense in which you know somebody sort of in the PR department keeps ages thinking right we can control the narrative on this by pointing the finger at Saudi Arabia I think it will very rapidly lead to people asking questions who haven't asked us questions already about the Bush administration as I say you know Bandar Bush was his nickname of course but you know that close relationship between the Bush family and the Saudi elite to Saudi royal family is very very close and it doesn't take an awful lot of scratching of the surface to see that there's a lot more going on there so yeah I think they're playing it in the middle I suspect they're playing it as a Mr. Tanger as you as you describe but pressure in Saudi Arabia deflect attention from growing awareness of what happened on 9/11 in terms of being a manufactured war trigger but as with so many other things that we have going on around us you know stuff is unraveling it a pretty I won't say unprecedented rate but you know things are unraveling COVID-19 I know it seems like a long time but it's not a long time if you think of say 9/11 or the JFK assassination think of how long it's taken to JFK assassination to get to a point where you have a member of US elite can it be junior of course saying it's the CIA who did it 50 plus years 9/11 you know 10 20 years it's taken COVID-19 a lot of the wheels are off that wagon now and it's just you know four years since that particular event kicked off so you know there's a lot of unraveling going on so you know I watched with interest what's happening with the Saudi question and 9/11 but recognizing it for what it is so that's a rather long answer to your question but well what do you think I mean peers with all of these what you're in your colleagues they're called deep structural events or SCADs state crimes against democracy some very interesting terms and language to vocabulary it's been developed really with your study groups and your colleagues which I think are very good they they're you're able to conceptualize and categorize and sort of make sense of these conversations I think now in a much more structured way much more academic way but with all of these events appears there there always seems to be a type of a red herring story or just kind of a built-in limited hangout I mean with 9/11 Saudi pilots flying Cessna's with a co-pilot getting a couple of lessons and then if by magic piloting sophisticated 747s and passionate airlines are pulling G maneuvers that Air Force pilots couldn't do navigating without the you know guidance from the tower hitting the world trades I mean the whole thing just reeks of just complete science fiction if you buy into the official narrative but that Saudi red herring is built into there into the story and with COVID we saw Rand Paul blathering on this is just my opinion blathering on for weeks and weeks talking about Fauci and lab leaks and again a brilliant and China which is a great red herring to basically take the focus away from the US government of NATO of Operation Warp Speed and all these incredible things that are unprecedented where the real crimes took place in my opinion with the Nord Stream pipeline we have the Ukrainian super soldier conspiracy theory that they're on a 50-foot sailing yacht and managed to somehow do the Nord Stream one and two pipelines there and not NATO you know not during battle they were peeking over the side of the yacht weren't they and um yeah I mean it's pretty it's pretty crazy that the yarn that they spun on that one yeah so so what what what about you know the that feature seems to be there in almost all of these same type of events pierce your thoughts yeah I mean I I think is very likely that you have red herrings weaved into these events as they are constructed in order to okay how are we going to manage the information space as the event occurs how do we shore up belief in the official narrative and then how do we deal with problems which start to emerge when people start to realize that this doesn't quite make sense as has happened very quickly with with Nord Stream and so on and and so I think they are really woven in that I think we've with 9/11 of course that the Saudi and the hijackers is an important part of the backstory in terms of you know creating this kind of vaguely plausible understanding of what happened you know al-Qaeda terrorists and Saudi Arabia carrying out these attacks and so on so it was a necessary part of building that narrative as opposed to as it were a red herring sort of written into it I think the example you give of COVID-19 with okay the China did it that the focus on Fauci and you know as you know so you know I used to be involved with Panda and Nick Hudson's organization and you know I'm probably left that organization you know that they were pretty clear I think we put out a statement that this pandemic did not occur that the sense of a dangerous novel Papajan spreading was a fiction and of course you know the Fauci China helps maintain this fiction that there was actually something there and so on beyond a pathogen which is was akin to fluid and so on and so forth so I think you know that that could well have been built into the COVID-19 as part of the narrative and so on but that was a you know that's a slightly different kind of structural deep event in a sense of you know there wasn't a pandemic there this thing was you know highly constructed and so on through manipulated science and so on there's a huge a lot of knowledge of understanding of how that was done now with 9/11 you know it really did happen you know sort of you know buildings in New York and there was large lots of life etc those things really did happen and so on but of course the narrative built around it was basically profoundly a deception etc. But going back to your point yeah this is I think you know this is one of the realities or one of the reasons why I started studying propaganda more closely was this this awareness which came through a quite a long process of studying quite traditional sort of media foreign policy dynamics from my sort of job as a political scientist was this realization of how much effort effort goes into propaganda and perception management and I think my my first sort of inroads into that was looking at the the Iraq war deception and looking at do all the all of the reports or so all the documents which are being released were coming out from the efficient inquiries into the WMD intelligence how it'd be manipulated and it was looking at those documents and it was getting a sense of really quite how organized the propaganda was and how sort of long term it was as well they were planning these things you know year plus before the invasion of Iraq and so on how they were going to sell the war and that was just my first introduction to oh gosh they're more organized and I thought they were and so on and then of course the more you study and particularly structural deep events or state crimes against democracy the more you study especially these big events and so on you start to sort of you know peel back the layers and you start to get an understanding of how organized they are and exactly that is you say how much interfacial thought how much intelligence goes into you know narrative construction managing perceptions psychological operations and so on and and it really is and this is why we set up the organizational propaganda studies it is something which has come to dominate our lives our democracies have been fundamentally subverted by the role of propaganda in our societies it reflects concentration of power it both enables concentration of power and so on and it's also you know wants people are in positions dominant positions a bit you know grapple or grasp these techniques in order to maintain their position of power and we do live in that world I always forget a quote Eddie Benet's founding father of public relations talked about the intelligent manipulation of the mind you know this is the hidden ruling power in society and so on and you know that's the reality of the world we live in not a million miles away from Truman show but that's it that's what we've got and that's why we're in the kind we have the kind of problems that we have and you know as as Mark Christopher Miller always points out and he's a co-director of organizational propaganda studies it's also good to have a lot of humility is somebody looking at propaganda or any of us in any of our lines of work that you know that there's a lot of stuff that you probably haven't realized is going on and so on and I think that's always very important to keep in mind but yeah they're very organized and they're pretty good at it now they're not all powerful but it's very extensive and you know we have a degree of manipulation going on I think in terms of our information spaces or public spheres which means that you know we don't have functioning democracies in the West. Well you know in addition to this kind of suspension of democracy that the post 9/11 world brought in this kind of globalized security state the global war in terror it's not just that itself you have this narrative was redeployed to justify the Iraq war so and this is the danger you know it's with 9/11 it's been it's been used over and over again to base as a sort of Allen key to tighten the propaganda machinery on so many other major events as well the Iraq war as you mentioned just there appears being one of those so I mean that there's the real danger is the second and third orders of these narratives not just the initial event go ahead yeah I mean it's kind of we've been sometimes when I speak about this or when I think about this you know I think you look back at the West over the course of the last 50-60 years and you look at the JFK assassination you know you look at the kind of warnings about the military industrial complex which so Eisenhower is in his departing speech and then JFK comes in and he's assassinated clearly by the US Deep State and really you've got this this long process of decay of our institutions certainly with 9/11 as you say you know you had the Patriot Act comes in off the back of 9/11 and you've got bulk surveillance you got restrictions and civil liberties also yeah use of torture as well of course by the West you have all of these essentially extremely negative developments from a kind of ideal democratic point of view and to me it's the kind of a sense of things just having been eroded over time if you know and I know some people say to me you can go back further and have kept you know this it doesn't start with JFK but I think it's a convenient place for a lot of people of our generation and perhaps for the younger generation to start where you can see a very clear point where you have a subversion of the democratic process you have a concentration of power you have the entrenchment the military industrial complex and really since then yeah we've seen this steady erosion of our institutions mainstream media corporate media have become more and more corrupted over time I think academia has as well to the point where we are today and I think sort of COVID-19 was this as I'm sure you'd agree a turning point for many people many people suddenly realized all of these people who weren't listening to us and say when you and I were talking about Syria for example suddenly realizing yeah that the mainstream media is is and academia is co-opted by power in that case you know in relation to COVID-19 and so on and yeah I think it's been a steady decline and I suppose politically geopolitically it does in a way it reflects Empire if we want to use that term the dominance of the West the West has maintained its dominance in the international system through you know a very aggressive belligerent foreign policy and that predates 9/11 of course but you know we've done a lot of killing in order to maintain our position in international system and engaging in a lot of propaganda to maintain that and I think the reality is you know that Empire role imperial role that the US obviously leading the West has had but you know the Brits did hand over the batten to the Americans as my history teacher always used to point out very patriotic chap you know sort of we are in a position where that Empire is clearly as we mentioned before is coming to an end we are moving into a different kind of world so I think you know it's almost the end of the Roman Empire kind of feel of corruption of institutions we've completely lost our values our democratic values have gone out the window you can see that the digital services act all of these constraints on freedom of expression we're seeing with the online bills etc we're fighting wars we're fighting wars that we can't win as well and yeah we're in a pretty shoddy state but I think it reflects yeah the end of Empire days and you know where we go from here whether the Empire ends sort of by just quieting down and moving to a different or whether we just go into greater conflicts escalation that's a possibility realist as you know realist always point out the dangers of conflict in the international system when you have big shifts in from you know unipolar to bipolar to multipolar you know this is a point of which you can have war and I think we're at that point we've increasingly desperate propaganda trying to maintain things and at the same time we also have that other component this kind of globalist elite block of you know slightly unclear origins or locations in a sense it looks pretty Western but you know COVID-19 sort of highlighted the significance of these kind of global elites and so on and what kind of visions they have for the future I described that as a kind of a parallel sort of access as it were that people are struggling against at the moment not just the Western Empire but also that and what we've seen it capable of doing with COVID-19 but at the moment I guess at the forefront is the conflict and this incredibly weak position that the West now looks to be in whatever issue you look at whether you'd look at let's look at the history and look at JFK and 9/11 that's unraveling but if we just look at say the Ukraine if we look at what's happening in Europe and so on all of these suggest that you know we're in a very weakened end of empires phase at a moment and yeah we're going to have to see how things transition from here but I'm tempted to say you know things are breaking down and it's all going to be overseen as it were and we'll be able to sort of start afresh but you know it seems that there are some big battles ahead in some ways I think in terms of a large part of the elite in it a West doesn't seem to have let go yet of this notion that the West can still dominate globally that populations can be controlled through extensive propaganda I think that's incorrect now I think there's enough mobilization there's enough parallel societies emerging as in a meeting earlier today that independent media in Europe and similar meetings with people about independent academia and it's all this kind of people saying that the structures are all broken we have to start developing parallel societies and there seems to be a lot of energy going into that and a huge amount of dissent and dissatisfaction on the street towards elites so I think you know we're kind of like at that point of transition now and so on so you know that's another way of saying maybe all the propaganda is going to pretty much come off the rails now I think it's significant what we saw I don't want to go on about but the JFK and Robert Kennedy's junior and I'm aware of all the criticisms legitimate of his stance particularly in relation to Israel Gaza and the genocide there but it was an important moment that somebody such as him from the US elite was so openly and clearly stating what a latch she happened to JFK his uncle of the and you know good that that was said because it's out there now and you know for anyone who does go through the voluminous independent research it's pretty clear what happened has been for a long time was clear to many people at the time in fact in the 60s what happened and so on but I think you know that's getting consolidated now so these things are coming out and would I say that these kind of things mean the other things can ever be the same again for the West and it is a new opportunity now I think to start to rebuild our institutions you know but that's the optimistic side of me correct me that along with the frozen cold water along with well you know we certainly need to get it's a lack of imagination as to what the future could be or should be is one of the big problems with the current power elite structure in place that they seem to be suffering from a lack of imagination there and seem to be defaulting to all their old ways and means but in addition to the JFK the RFK narratives being revisited also revisited is the Nixon administration which was basically maligned because of Watergate now we're beginning to understand that what Watergate actually was was a massive deep state coup in fact against the Nixon administration that becomes more clear but like you said peers everybody knew that many knew that at the time outside of the Woodward and Bernstein swashbuckling journalistic exhibitions going on with Watergate but that's also really important because it's relevant today because the things that Nixon was was involved in and things that he was talking about are as relevant today as they were back then but after the break peers if you can stay with us I want to bring a very important issue to your attention which is talk right now of asymmetric warfare in Europe NATO the alarm bells are ringing they're saying Russia is going to be you know launching a regular warfare attacks I want to talk to you about that what your thoughts are on this subject and the issue of false flags and I couldn't help but notice and I'm sure you have also seen things that are basically alluding to to what I'm about to show here this is an article here at Stars and Stripes of course this is also echoed through the mainstream media US military bases in Europe on high alert expected terrorist attacks so all US military bases and so I looked at this peers and I'm like what who could they possibly be implicating here and then lo and behold I just turn the clock back a couple of days and I find this article from CNN which seems to answer that question if we bring that one up on stage here the CNN article Russia wants to confront NATO but there's not do it on the battlefield so it's waging a hybrid war instead so is it any coincidence appears that these stories have been lined up right across the mainstream media within days of each other go ahead yeah probably not I mean it's a pretty standard playbook that you'd expect to be played at this point given NATO's position in relation to Ukraine the war that it's losing and in relation to Russia they need to shore up both public support for the war and to really sort of take to the next level the demonization of the Russian Federation I mean as you're fully aware this has been going on for a long time now we've had the Russia phobia propaganda for and you know I was caught up with that with the Syria chemical weapons to an extent and so on but this is given the state situation we're in with Russia in relation to Ukraine and how serious that has now become yeah expect to see not Russian hybrid warfare attacks but as you mentioned Operation Gladio style operations Operation Gladio of course you know the NATO stay at home armies operation which throughout the Cold War was implicated in staging of attacks to blame on left wing communism and so on employed you know I mean Daniela Gantz's book on that his PhD was on Operation Gladio is extremely good resource for people to consult but some of this did finally get out in the courts I think there was a terrible bombing initially in a train station in the early 80s and that finally got into court and it was recognized more or less what had actually happened this was you know Western intelligence operatives carrying out these attacks I mean a lot of people that killed in that attack 80 or so I think including a young British couple are out backpacking at the start of their lives more adult lives you know so we've we've had that before we had 9/11 and as I kind of quickly run over I mean the evidence that 9/11 was a false flag manufactured war trigger is overwhelming whether you look at the sort of the science of the buildings through to the events of the day with the hijacking exercises etc etc and then the broader geopolitical context and so on evidence is very very strong so we know what as it were of a deep state or our political establishment act as a capable of and what they are willing to sacrifice in order to protect their interests and yeah with Russia and Ukraine this is an obvious thing is to get the ball rolling either first ratcheting up public fear of this and then quite possibly at some point actually having real world events propaganda to deed in order to as it were then they'll say look here we are we have the Russians attacking in mainland Europe and so on and I think if that does transpire it's very difficult to see how it's remotely within US Russian Federation strategic interest to engage in such activity this is going to be carried out by Western intelligence services if they move to do that well I'm not sure how much the public will buy it there's sure it's a minority but there's a lot of people it's a big minority who understand the term false flag a lot of people know about Operation Gladio Daniela Gantz you know kicked out of academia for 9/11 related issues it is a huge following here in Germany and in Switzerland as well and across Europe you know and he talks about these issues at length there's a lot of awareness so if they try and pull that kind of stunt which shank is quite plausible they will or likely they will you know they're going to have people pushing back straight away but I suppose overall I mean it just shows you the kind of you know if this is all what they're thinking of and there's no reason to doubt sort of what you're inferring from those two newspaper articles this is where they're going you know they're capable of this kind of thing at this point it can you know can they maintain I'm not sure they really could persuade to put a huge false flag blame not in the Russian Federation and use it to justify a massive escalation I'm just not sure whether it's going to fall on fertile ground is a narrative at this point in time people too many people will be saying pull the other one so well the danger is sorry the danger is you know to pull a feather from Joseph Gerbels they're the bigger the lie the more likely the public is to believe it so in terms of a nuclear dirty bomb or some major spectacle some major spectacle people wouldn't be given a choice to reconsider it the peer pressure the social pressure the political juggernaut that comes into play like with covid like with 9/11 something on a grand scale and I feel like in the Andrew Bridget an independent member of parliament I'm not sure if he's independent but left the Tory kicked out of the Tory party effectively from Lester he basically said he has heard murmuring about a NATO false flag or a dirty bomb or something to that effect in Europe in multiple interviews including on this network TNT previously and I feel peers that were one false flag high profile false flag away from escalating into world war three mode and I don't think that's an exaggeration especially with all the talk of conscription all of a sudden peers every country's talking about conscription that doesn't just happen doesn't yeah I think you're right I mean you're spot on to remind me of Goebbels and you know the bigger the lie you tell more people will just fall in line and and that is a very real risk because that is precisely to kind of rationale calculation which might be being made at the moment and yeah I mean I was thinking of sort of smaller scale attacks which could be blamed on a Russian federation but you know you put a dirty bomb a small nuclear device even you know that would be enough people would be so panicked and shocked that there wouldn't necessarily be time so yeah I think we are living in very dangerous times yeah there's nothing like that and people need to be alert to this people I mean this is one of the points I make in relation to 9/11 and the work that I'm doing with IC 911 you know this is incredibly important for people to understand what happened on 9/11 because if you don't understand what happened on 9/11 you're not operating with a full in full knowledge of what our government's capable of and 9/11 was so false flag this was a complex highly organized take it took a long time to organize it as well deep state operation to carry out a false flag to initiate massive wars the international system and you know the connection between 9/11 and the role that rollout of attacks on countries Afghanistan Iraq Libya Syria ultimately and so on and Iran always is the end target that was very very clear that's what it was about and so on and look what our deep state the people who sit behind our political establishment were willing to do in that case they were willing to you know sacrifice the lies of 3000 US citizens more than just us is about 3000 people in those buildings many firefighters obviously the three or 400 firefighters die but that's the kind of dark Machiavelli and real politic calculation that they were willing to make in order to what would a neo-con saying how do we how do we sort of stoke the fires in the American public to make sure that we can maintain full spectrum dominance in the 21st century this is a kind of language they were using in the 90s and so on and that's what they were willing to do so as you point out very very aptly and remind me that this is you know one of the dangers real dangers we face at the moment how far are they willing to go in all of this again one can only hope that either through public awareness and pressure or enough people within the elite and within the establishment realizing this we have to change course at some point you know and maybe a combination to two one can only hope that that's the kind of sort of karma so more sober minds will prevail at some point you know but yeah we're in we're in dangerous times and you're right the conscription yeah here in Germany as well in the US France UK certainly in the UK as well you know this this chatter in the background um and yeah they could be really thinking that this is our only solution at this point to hold on to power um and so on so yeah and that was the that that was the premise of uh 1984 was or was 1984 that people had to believe there was a eternal war uh with uh Oceania and East Asia and Airship One was always on high alert and it turns out uh none of that was actually happening a good another good science fiction satire film was Starship Troopers which has actually got a genius um satire pastiche on all this um but uh that I think I share your optimism a bit peers because the level of awareness has never been higher they pulled the wrong card with the Nord Stream pipelines that's raised so many questions and I browse that uh the chances of a successful false flag are diminishing by the day but peers Robinson organization for propaganda studies propaganda and focus and of course the 9/11 Center for Justice great work as always will point people in the chat room to your social media feeds what you're doing but to thank you for joining us on TNT this week peers Good to be with you Pat. There you go this ladies and gentlemen uh follow the work of peers Robinson there's a lot of exciting things going on there again we'll drop those into the chat top of the Air News headlines coming up we've got a whole lot more on the other side you don't want to miss the next hour and Patrick Ennickson we'll be right back.
