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21st Century Wire's Podcast

INTERVIEW: Arnaud Develay – Exposing NATO’s Role in Crimea & Dagestan Attacks

Duration:
42m
Broadcast on:
26 Jun 2024
Audio Format:
aac

TNT Radio host Patrick Henningsen speaks with human rights lawyer, journalist and author of the new book, “Foreign Entanglements: Ukraine, Biden & the Fractured American Political Consensus”Arnaud Develay, about the shocking attacks over the weekend and in Crimea and Dagestan, and how Ukraine-NATO and western intelligence are using these to increase tension in the region and pressure on Moscow.

Get a copy of Arnaud’s book: “Foreign Entanglements: Ukraine, Biden & the Fractured American Political Consensus

More from Arnaud: X/Twitter 21stcenturywire.com

Letting the fuse for freedom TNT radio ladies and gentlemen welcome to the program. That was a quick intro Caught me by surprise. I want to welcome on to the stage for this segment International human rights lawyer and author Arno Devolays joining us on the live link right now to help us make sense of what's happened over the weekend Arno, and I know you released a statement on this on your telegram channel which we've also published at 21st century wire.com and The headline here on your statement is United States attack on civilians. How will Moscow react? Well, Arno You're saying United States attack on civilians. That's not what the Western mainstream media is saying the Western mainstream media is saying Russia claims That Ukraine dropped attack on missiles or cluster munitions on the beach According to the Kremlin quote unquote. I'm paraphrasing a lot of the Western media They do they can't come out and make a definitive headline about what happened Obviously, that's the that is the diametric opposite of what you're saying. You're saying. Yes. This is u.s. Involvement explain why Well, obviously as a you know, it's been related for weeks now in those far as the attack games systems are concerned those very sophisticated systems require global where kind of sauce flight and Data bases to be essentially Communicated to the personnel on the ground for katie breading purposes So there's no way The current put on of what Ukrainian army with on its own Manage such system with such accuracy so obviously, you know, we've heard about those drones patrolling the Black Sea area near the crime here You know the last few days There was another one on this the day of the attacks But you know, basically they are constantly patrolling They've been doing the same thing also Off the coast of Syria for years. So it's the same pattern essentially and it requires reconnaissance flight and transmission of data essentially so Obviously the u.s. The highest level including the White House spokesperson and the Pentagon spokesperson, and I seem to recall the European Union Foreign office so to speak a spokesperson mr. Esteno somehow evade the question and somehow You know Continuate that that Moscow is somewhat You know drawing on conclusions that you know that they are sorry about civilian losses That's always regrettable, you know in cases of conflict but they quickly Somehow invalidate this by saying that well all they have to do I eat the Russians is to Basically pull out of Ukrainian territories and that until that happens Ukraine somehow is justified in doing whatever it takes to reclaim those territories even if Unfortunately again this leads to civilian losses So if you read between the lines, obviously, you know, it's all basically an outback statement which You know gives them enough reeling room to somewhat on the pace of it deny that they've participated in any way shape or form, but again, I mean, you know the facts are stubborn, you know those weapons system require sophisticated expertise and and only the u.s. And its allies are in a position to provide it Okay, so this is this right now. We're looking at the situation whereby we have reports of numerous civilian deaths and injuries as well We have some video of that Crimea attack actually, but when we have that ready, we'll play that but Basically cluster munitions were dispersed. So you have people, you know sunbathing on the beach in Sevastopol and You have these attacks coming in we do have reports of a u.s. Global Hawk Drone that the very type that are required to provide an assistant guidance and targeting information for these very systems But yet we have these wide denials That there's no evidence of u.s. Involvement are no how long can they keep this charade going because if the shoe is on the other foot if the shoe is on the other foot certainly Certainly there be just righteous indignation all day long 24/7 I mean just imagine if any European country or anybody or you know, Israeli Beachgoers have been subject to anything similar to this We wouldn't hear the end of it. They'd be calls for you know nuclear annihilation of the perpetrators. I'm not exaggerating This is what this is what would happen They'd be going crazy. So right now. They're just denying that it happened right across the Western media on this. So, I mean, it's pretty incredible a state of affairs. I don't know that's where we're standing right now now, I want to talk to you about the political calculus on this and of course you've written about this in your statement on Telegram, but it seems that the timing of this are now is extremely suspect In terms it's coming right at a time when you're starting to hear the noises about You know, we need to look at the negotiated settlement in Kiev We got statements from even Colleba Foreign Minister and Kiev even him the hawk of hawks the man the Ukrainian Nationalist extraordinary He's saying wow we this this peace process in Switzerland Isn't really going to work unless we have Russia at the table. We've also got your mak Chief of Staff of Zelensky. He's saying we're we're we're we're we're open to talking to Russia now Then we have Mark Milley joint chiefs of staff former retired saying on a panel just two days ago That there's no military solution for this conflict We need a negotiated settlement and that's going to have Russia involved in it So are you turned from him and there's a leak Arno that the United States have been in secret talks with Moscow over Preparing for a negotiated settlement. So while all those things happen this week, then this happens. How do you explain that? I Well, obviously this shows that there's no one minding the ship in the US In as far as the commander in chief is concerned. The guy is completely, you know absent And so we have factions essentially vying for control of the strategic agenda and You also forgot to mention our storage not that it is relevant anymore, but our establish is being somewhat of a measured voice, you know, since he's falling from grace in Kiev and You know, yes, everybody is coming and the reasonable people in the room seem to be coming to the conclusion that only negotiation can resolve this this protracted situation and Moscow was it ours after the events actually maintain their open starts on having negotiation take place so You know, everybody seems to be somewhat coming to the same conclusion. There's a consensus Obviously, but then we have those hardliners those those war ox We've bet so much on this Ukraine project who are hell bent on pursuing some nefarious agenda Which were echoed again recently by the Polish foreign minister who? Babbard on about breaking Russia down into two hundred parts So we still have those kind of holdouts and they're somewhat easily recognizable Those are the hardcore new cons and their acolytes, you know, whether it's this There's a Sikorsky guy or you know a few of them in Europe we also have a Statesman's emanating from European nation such as Hungary and Serbia and Burel coming out and saying, you know Serbia if you're going to somewhat attempt to engage with Russia This is not going to help you a bit to join the EU so, you know, it this is a kind of a pantomime and and and don't forget we have this debate coming upon Thursday and This is also a way to somehow shift the focus on you know foreign development as you know, this this Debate of all, you know the debate of all danger. That's what I call it. I mean for the Democrats We cannot be expect, you know that they're going to pull every stop to somehow manage to present a manageable Version or portrayal of their their candidate or what's left of it So all those factors, I guess are to be taken into account But again, there are definitely a faction the same, you know the sore suspects Because Newton, you know despite all claim to the contrary, you know, it's still there. You know, she's still pulling the strings She's the go-to lady There's a bunch of liberal intervention is also, you know, fellow travelers was still there and those people know that time is ticking so they're trying to bait essentially the Russians into reacting in some kind of a You know this proportionate manner and somehow hope that Whatever reaction can be obtained will be the gases barely to somewhat flip the coin on Pauline or all the remaining a schedule bearing on the election itself even I don't know if we could so Just poke poke Russia poke Russia and get get Russia to react and then when and then when Russia reacts saying, ah look at Russia Look what they've done. This is put this is what we warned you about so they they absolutely want to get that Result out of this and that's that's what I see here. We've got the footage here. We're gonna play this We'll talk about this on on the other side, but let's go ahead and roll. This is what this is actual footage from the beach Over the weekend in Sevastopol. Let's take a look at this so Aren't of that pop pop pop that's that's cluster munitions coming from the attack them are no Under international law your international human rights lawyer as well as an author and a journalist, but under international law Is this a war crime and if so, who's who's culpable? Well, it is a war crime coz obviously there are no military value to those those targets, you know, and so it's it's really state terrorism and to the extent Kiev is the nominal corporate If we apply the above for analysis none of this grab impossible without the global orcs Providing the data so, you know, you follow the chain of command in a way and causality and Find yourself in Washington DC So it is a war crime bowel accounts and there's nothing more heinous than you know going after Basically beachgoers people were completely unsuspecting full of unsuspecting of you know what the one second to the next might be for them and You know, that's but again. This is what's their state terrorism is about. It's it's to try to flame public opinion and try to create an outcry within russian public opinion, which would then prompt the authorities here to Do something anything but do something and this is where We have to be conscious obviously because that's the exact calculus that those Those those hardcore all over in Washington are trying to elicit And we got a news article here. Let's bring as the kremian news article on the kremian story bring this up on screen here arno and It's it's interesting. You know, you've got the headline and then you've got the sub header as well And it says the headline says Ukraine Russia war latest Moscow vows to retaliate after u.s Against us after missile attack on kremia and the sub headline is the important thing to pay attention to the Russian defense ministry has claimed Arno has claimed Ukraine used u.s. Provided weapons in a strike on Crimea yesterday that killed these four people injured 151 more meanwhile EU accession talks with Ukraine are approaching a political blow Or approaching in a political blow to Putin Arno. This is just pure propaganda that this is what's going out on the newswires Reuters AP AFP all the main wires. This is the sort of language. That's going out. I had a big rant about this in my opening monologue But they they can't even attribute any responsibility, but yet. This is the same media Mainstream media establishment that will immediately attribute blame to let's say Syria anytime There's a an accusation of a chemical weapons attack over 10 years I mean, this is just apps. You can see the total control by the Western powers over the mainstream media and how they frame all of these stories your thoughts Yes, you're right. We've seen this in Syria. We've seen this also in the current You're a stream Gaza. I mean read a headline a couple of days ago that says the war claimed Children's lives the war, so we're not claiming we're not trying to identify anybody specifically But we see the same thing also in the IAEA reports, you know when it comes to the shelling in as a parochi There's some kind of spontaneous out of the blue shelling of the nuclear plant, but We never get to find out who is doing the shelling and so it's a way to massage the perception of what's going on to somehow You know claim that obviously yeah, you know people are seeing the season in their store, but somehow completely exonerate, you know Washington is trying to exonerate its allies or or its own personnel form having any kind of responsibility in this So it's a it's a what I call this kind of bland talk And everything very circumspect and circumstantial Things happen, you know take one for the team, you know Or it's almost like a natural phenomenon But it's not and so yeah, this is this is how the media basically has been playing it For decades, I mean they haven't really changed their their playbook on that they always go about it the same way They take it, you know into account casualties Among civilians among children They highlight you know a state of affair, but they never Go further into the analysis as to explaining who is responsible What's the causality? You know and how did the situation get to come about in the first place? Oh, don't talk about any of that or no You'll destroy the the narrative management there. You're talking about context causing effect How we got to a point in history? I mean, this is off limits You're literally not allowed to discuss any of that We will tell you or as they say we will tell you how to frame the story and history begins when we say it begins at what point So this is important. This is what we try to do on this show. I know this is an important part of your work as well Arno's book as well. I'm just gonna give a little shout out here Foreign entanglements will get that image up on screen. This is an excellent book This just came out in the most recent weeks and so forth Arno devillate Foreign entanglements Ukraine Biden the fractured American political consensus in this book or all the receipts of Biden corruption in Ukraine, but not just that just the systematic total micromanagement by the United States of every aspect of Ukrainian state Agencies governing economics everything Arno So to say that the United States is not involved in the decision-making of the military and Intelligence decisions being made is on its face ridiculous Just on the basis of how much a they get but as you detail in your book Arno The the external management as you call it is completely widespread across pretty much all major functions of the state Is that exaggeration? No, it's not and actually the expression was going by Andre Darcash who was on the on the inside for many many years Who keeps getting a live information as to what's going on? I can explain in very detailed fashion And this is what the book chronicles how as you said the US has completely phygo seeded The Ukrainian state apparatus. They said the agenda in terms of draft bills They decide who's going to be carrying out the bill on the floor They rearrange the coalition when you know for the time being it looks as if you know a chance might be in order they pick the candidate they pick was going to be handling the following it and Whenever somebody appears to deviate from any kind of agreed-upon narrative the US embassy here through the Naboo Artists a national anti-corruption the role Basically goes after them and you know We move them on before they somehow create damages to the narrative so, you know, it's all it's basically Take over complete Cannibalizing of the Ukrainian state what's left of it and All we're left with is essentially a bunch of people planted there by Washington who Unbeknownst to a lot of people in terms of perception I've managed to get some information to the side as a insurance policy and In some respect one might wonder if Washington did not bargain too much I would say got much more than the bargain for it because obviously Zelensky himself knows that this time is counting and One would be a complete fool not to understand that at some point he may likely be You know disposed of Despite, you know people believing that he has a few villas, you know, and casinos and whatever you left right on center This guy knows too much and I always say, you know, the next is Saddam Hussein's version of the 21st century Saddam, you know, was executed over an obscure case that was quickly assembled against him Bearing on a you know a lot of crackdown, but yeah, basically He is executing of his presidential powers at the time in a time of war and this is the case they used to basically promptly Trying convict him and executed before any other cases was opened into including the on file campaign against the Kurds and The massacre of the shea in the south and at the close of the first Going for and so, you know, we don't want we don't want people like this to start, you know spreading the beans and Explaining how they got, you know, everything they needed including Nerve gas and VX gas that, you know was used, you know during there, you know trying to contain you all at the time so It's powerful the course and and Zelensky should definitely study history And I'm sure he has and to the extent he has done his homework he has a lot of goods on This external management scheme so It might be actually worse, you know, what she was going to happen because even they have, you know, the bedmands which Say they are your setup just in case something happens to him Yeah without a doubt Zelensky's days are numbered the we're all waiting for the dramatic season finale of Servant of the people the reality show as as a sequel to the the TV sitcom drama in Ukraine That was the name of the program in fact where he starred as the sort of, you know hapless Incidental president of Ukraine. That's how they conditioned the public to get used to him as a president This was back in 2015 16 17 and then he actually ran for president under servant of the people the same name as the TV program and lo and behold He wins and becomes president. How how come he won? Why how did he win? He said we are gonna have peace with the East peace with Russia That's what he ran on of course elected with an overwhelming majority and he got into power and proceeded to do the opposite So no surprise there. That's what politicians tend to do But in this case it had absolutely egregious egregious results for the country of Ukraine It may never recover certainly will never be what it was before and the longer this conflict goes on driven by NATO Driven by the external management is you as you call it and others are no the worst It's going to get for Ukraine The the less of the country they were going to be able to retain The more damage done and the greater loss of life and that's the real tragedy is the amount of Ukrainian men have died And what can only be described as NATO's vanity project This war this proxy war is really a vanity project for the West and for NATO with huge consequences for the country of Ukraine a real tragedy Historically here didn't need to happen Arno. There are plenty of solutions on the table before February 2022 Russia certainly did its best To give you know offers to come to some kind of treaty arrangement and then you had the mixed accords Which was ratified at the UN Security Council level by unanimous vote I might add But they slow walk that they sabotage that anything to prevent peace because it seemed Arno There are a lot of people in the West that wanted this war to happen They did everything possible to push things into position to actually make it happen and in the end it did And I think now you're the problem. We're witnessing over the weekend There are people in the West that want to escalate they want to escalate and I think there's a split Arno It's all these statements by Trump and Farrosh Nigel Farrosh from the UK Trump in the US both saying that the problem with this conflict It's created by NATO enlargement. Now that's not a coincidence I want to talk to you about your opinion is about those talking points from those two individuals and then this happens on the weekend I don't think this series of events is a coincidence We'll break some of this down with our guest here in the first hour Arno Devolay He is an author of a book called foreign entanglements will bring that on screen again Foreign entanglements, which really opens the whole lid on all of the scandals regarding Biden corruption But also how they created the Russia gate oaks to begin with and how that really started in Ukraine with the Democratic Party operatives framing Paul Manafort all the receipts are in this book folks So go to Amazon put this in the search by this book. It's excellent It is a golden resource and a piece of historical documentation. So nobody can tell you it didn't happen All the receipts all the details are in this book by Arno Devolay now Arno Before the break we're talking about the political dimension of this. I was surprised I'm gonna be honest with you Arno. I was surprised Donald Trump had some really something intelligent to say about Ukraine Sometimes his commentary. Let's just say is lacking in nuance and detail But he said something that I was very happy that he said this past couple of days He said that the problem in Ukraine this whole conflict was driven by NATO enlargement NATO pressuring Russia. This is what triggered the hostilities. No, that's not a hundred percent all of the story But it's a big big component of it and Nigel Farroj in the UK Reformed party leader. He's doing very well in the polls in the snap general election. He said exactly the same thing Now Arno, that's that can't be a coincidence and at the same time We see talk that we need to start talking to Russia about winding this disaster down Do we see a split here Arno in the populist winning of politics and then you have the intelligence services? Working with the deep state actors working with in Britain and the US working with Ukraine Who keep provoking Russia? Now that global hawk that that had to be off the books if that's providing targeting information That's CIA territory. That's JSOC territory. It's not it's not Front of house work here. Do we have a behind-the-scenes split going on about whether to keep this war going or ramp it up? What are your thoughts? Yeah, I think you're right. We have we have a dichotomy. We have a Factional in fighting, you know, whether it's in the US or in the UK And it's somehow it delves into the upcoming elections in both those countries and Obviously a lot is at stake because those were still you know promoting escalation at some point No very well that if the other faction gets in That's going to be an accounting a reckoning for what you know policy decisions were made and So this is also a factor to take into account. It's not just a philosophical Difference here. It's people literally fighting for their political life their professional life if not their own life period. I mean some of them might be You know brought to face some charges, you know of and danger in national security I mean its national security is such an elastic concept that you can you know to the extent you get control over the institutional levers you can turn it around and You know put some eggs on the face of your tormentors, you know your first-world tormentors So and nobody's going to really shed a you know it here on you, you know being on the receiving end this time around Because I guess you know the common sense in in the West Whether it's the US or Europe is that these things has lasted long enough everybody's getting poor by the day and societies are being polarized the establishment parties are completely discredited and More and more we are finding out corruption at unprecedented scale so it's kind of like a perfect storm of You know we hope at least you know a Major cleanup a spring cleanup a Western spring. This is what we need to see Coming back to Trump to be sure NATO has always been in his false hair. Trump is No matter how you look at how you look at the guy is a new nonsense type of guy in terms of approaching business and he considers NATO was outlived its usefulness That is no reason why the US should you know carry out most of the financing of the institution He probably hates all this kind of bloated Institutions in the first place whether it's NATO or anything else on the international level and It just wants to make sure there's a country left to be administered he wants to save the country and when we see you know the damages inflicted on the Territorial integrity of the US in the last four years. It's unbelievable. I mean the country is being disfigured as we speak We might never recognize it again and so you know Trump might be wondering if he will even have enough time to repair all the damages that was done so of course NATO becomes almost like you know a Obvious Targeting point for him. It has you know something this the sole operation should have been wrapped up in 1990 1991 and And you know, it's some kind of an anachronism that this this situation remains as for for Raj Well, I mean for Raj is also a non-nonsense type of guys but his fortune in in the financing business and Espares no punches when it comes down to identifying the problem and giving it the Appalachian because it has it is as he sees it and A lot of people are receptive to this kind of talk a lot of people on the other side of the aisle The overall aisle would say that it's kind of the my logic talk, you know popularly stock but The end of the day, you know, you've got to call Things as you see it and and the problem we've had in the West the last for sure the last 15 years 15 20 years, it's been kind of incrementally getting worse But now we've reached a point where a reality itself is subject to interpretation diverse interpretation We have a problem here. Yeah, we have to come back to empirical approach to problems and call things for what they are and if we don't agree on the Description the very description of the problems that we're facing. How can we begin to devise a solutions? And that's really what's going on right now. Yeah, we need to get the first principles and even a BBC veteran John Simpson veteran Reporter award-winning journalist etc war reporter he tweets out the last couple of days ago This was Putin's war of choice Putin's unprovoked war this war was unprovoked Why do they feel the need to keep repeating that talking point clearly? There's a memo that's gone around to pretty much all the high profile Influencers and politics and media in the UK In leading NATO countries and also in the US like they all repeat that if you need to keep repeating that talking point It means that it's not true that that's my initial reaction Instinctively to that but you can see they're really trying hard to warp and contort Reality because the at the end of the day there were many things that proceeded February 25th 2022 Which caused this conflict to ramp up and happen and everybody knows that who's honest who studied it and covered the Maidan coup Even going back further to the orange revolution. We can go even further than that if we want to but you're right We do have a problem with reality. There's dishonest people In in media in politics and they're they're really part of the problem because without them none of this would be possible Unfortunately now aren't I want to get your take? We've got a couple minutes left this this terror attack another terror attack within the Russian Federation will bring this BBC report up on screen 20 dead in attacks on churches and synagogue in southern Russia. We're talking about the caucus regions here in Dagestan previously, you know famed as a sort of you know Al Qaeda ISIS recruitment hotbed Of course things are much deeper than that you intimate this of course You know as your statement that we published on telegram at 21st century wire First of all your reactions to this and of course I look at this in the same frame as the Crocus City Hall Moscow terror attacks, which we saw in March But you know what what's your what are your thoughts on what's going on? What's actually going on here? well As you say, it's a continuation of the strategy pursued In the wake of the Crocus City Hall, but I would even go as far back as what happened in France in the year 2016 alone when we had those kind of Discovered loaded individuals completely out of context some house offering for mental impairment easy to manipulate going into churches and slicing the sport of a priest in front of the parishioners In Santach and you move right Or those this crazy truck are getting on the prom that there's only a niece and Mowing down over 80 people. So sheer nihilism When we do catch the guy alive none of his own story makes sense. I mean the guy sounds like Somehow sociopaths completely as no social life He understands nothing about Islam. Everything is confusing his mind but somehow, you know, he gets access to logistics equipment and Everything seems to be arranged for him and or them so that a maximum casualty rate is accomplished and Obviously, this this is part of the same strategy There's no doubt in my mind that you know the same kind of forces are behind the recruitment of somehow Lost youth, you know in Lunel or in ritual more in Paris to send them via Turkey into Syria It's the same the same thing. I mean they may, you know Benefit from foreign security services assistance at some point, but this is really like a coordinated Policy, you know by the deep state or all the countries involved in trying to destabilize a certain area of the world and as you mentioned that guest are as always been, you know this kind of soft belly of the Russian Federation to which you know a lot of Western services are attempting to Create a chaos and destabilize the region and again with this component where you know We try to basically frame Islam because we have an orthodox church the priest again is taught a slit We have a maximum carnage against law enforcement personnel And the synagogue of course so you know we have this allied bar statement at some point That somehow resurfaces and so there you go It's it kind of you know wraps up, you know nutshell on what you know they keep doing over and over given by name to Islam try to Get a part of the public opinion within Russia to point out you know to some people within the federation that should be handled certain way But it's it's really you know what it's all about. It's clear. It's clearly and so in my opinion Yeah, it's designed to inflame ethnic tensions within the Russian Federation Obviously, there's there's economic problems all over the world Certainly Russia's no exception with sanctions and everything so you have migrant labor coming from other parts of the central Asia to Moscow for work This is creating ethnic tension the West know this so it acts like this is playing on that talking point Let's bring up this article here from the Moscow Terror attacks will bring this up on screen and what what they introduced was interesting in March Was this talking point about Isis K in the West and they can't stop repeating this Isis K Isis K Now that they've attached so-called Isis care Isis Corazon Corazon They've attached this to the Dagestan attacks over the weekend and If anybody really thinks I mean Isis K was deployed in Afghanistan and they're fighting the Taliban so I mean It looks like a total Western intelligence construct in my opinion because I've been studying this Right back to the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in fact, you can track the Mujahideen in Afghanistan over to Bosnia and then to Syria and then through Turkey and then redeployed in Iraq with Isis and then back to Syria again and Now to the Caucasus. I mean Arno you can actually trace the genealogy of These extremists and these so-called Terrorist groups which have it clearly have the fingerprints of a lot of Western countries including Israel by the way All over them. So paid for directed recruited handled Why a strategy of tension? This is Operation Gladio all over again This is what happened in Europe for for 30 or 40 years Don't tell me that this just got mothballed and they stopped Operating these types of cells when they did it throughout the Cold War a couple minutes left your final thoughts on this or not No, you're right. It's a cotton-based the same way they've used a Tack furious GI list in the Middle East, you know that they nurtured in US bases in the wake of the Iraq invasion They then nurtured a neo-Nazi groups, you know, so it's the same situation you just basically create those stay-behind cells you have weapons caches and When required to the extent there might be Someone about to be elected in any given country that you have an interest in to maintain a control over boom, you unleash those those groups you create strategy of tension and basically you prevent any kind of reasonable approach to Problems in general to from taking place. This is this is very old, you know, ancient But I want to go back to what you were saying with the Khorasan group, you know Khorasan in islamic eschatology the black banners, right? Everybody talked about this. It's it's really at the core of the eschatological aspect of the Quran And the black banners are supposed to be this this army that really did come from Afghanistan and basically Unfurl throughout, you know the land of islams and no one will be able to resist them So there's this element also this cartoonish almost cartoonish elements Aimed to design to strike terror within the heart of you know regular believers, you know as to any kind of connection with a secret scripture so that you could somehow Defeat them before they even get the chance to develop Defense antibodies So it all those things have been worked out thought over and studied in Western intelligence labs before being deployed Yeah, yeah for the course And I point people to the work of F William Angdall on the US and CIA clandestine terror in the Caucasus And so forth any points to you know people operatives like Graham Fuller from the CIA For two of them with two of the ghoulin the ghoulin network all of this is basically cut and paste Operations exactly as you said are no devil a are no devil a author of foreign entanglements Thank you for joining us on TNT this week Thank you Patrick always a pleasure There he goes ladies and gentlemen as are no devil a live and direct from Moscow listen and top of the our news headlines coming up When we come back we'll continue delving into this with great military analyst former CIA operative Larry Johnson We'll discuss the Crimea attacks and much much more on the other side stay with us here at TNT [MUSIC PLAYING]