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Good morning, everybody, this is Travis Shaddox and turfgrass epistemology on a special Tuesday morning There's a coonhound favor I've read some of your chats or some of your comments and either my videos or some of the videos I can't remember and I found them interesting, so I Appreciate your participation good morning lush and my gray and Chuck and Charles everybody good morning I've been going over soil testing for a while if you're here and you're watching this you're here because you're interested in turfgrass science and Turfgrass epistemology and and how to become more efficient at your turf programs. I guess I'm assuming that's why you're here and I've been going over soil testing for a few weeks and we're gonna continue to do that Normally in the past I would go over an article and then go over a video but The articles I'm gonna go over for a while or rather in depth and they're they're what I'm interested in I've been this is what nine ten months old now the channel and I haven't even got into much of the one I'm really interested in that soil testing. So I'm doing that now, but the episodes are rather long They're gonna be an hour or so just on the article and I don't have time to do the videos anymore Kind of commenting videos and so forth good morning Brady And so what I'm gonna do for a little while is just have a Tuesday show the open to the public where I'm just gonna go over a video Okay It I don't know how us to do it for right now I'm still doing the content on Monday morning, but it's members only and it's only five bucks a month if you want to watch that So and it helps support the channel if you want to become a member help support Turfgrass research that I conduct and the channel keep it going and motivates me to show up and do it every day or every Monday so if you want twice as much content then five bucks a month and and You can get twice as much content. I'm keeping a lot of the members only content as members Only I haven't released in many of those videos four or five of those videos are still members only I might release him in a month or two I don't know to the general public but for now it's members only so and they're in their good content the show I did yes It was yesterday. I think it was yesterday. I thought was pretty good To be frank, I mean, I thought you know is a little bit more my style and it's more content than I'm Interested in and sort of my area specialty within Turfgrass science So I liked it, but you if you want to watch it, you have to be a member for now Today we're gonna go over a video I got a lot of requests in the in several months to go over this particular channel and I have zero interest in I'm gonna go and talk about this particular channel. If you don't know me by now, I Could not care less about targeting a person or a channel. I don't don't care They're human beings and I have no interest in going over after a human being. It's that silly But their content and their assertions are another matter I don't see any reason why we shouldn't and I see a lot of good reasons why we should assertively critique content and Today I came across a couple days ago came across a video from the channel that I've been asked to go over for a while and I've seen some of his videos. I don't particularly find them interesting or compelling but a lot of people don't find mine interesting So it is what it is, but the the like this he doesn't really say anything Meaningful or or scientifically I don't know Interesting at all. So it's sort of sort of just sort of vague amorphous Recommendations that I mean could be right. It could be wrong. It is what it is but in this video the the producer the content creator Has several things in here that are just Factually incorrect and so we're gonna go over that and then I'm gonna show a little bit of on the end of scientific publication to reinforce my position But have no delusions I'm sure this guy's a perfectly good guy. I have no problem with any anybody But I don't I just want to see it I see it very dangerous to sit by and not say anything whenever content and misinformation and BS gets communicated to our industry somebody's got to stand up and say something and For now I'm doing it this way. So that's why we're here. So the the let's see I'm doing things a little bit different today So let me see if I can get all this figured out without screwing it up So the the content I'm gonna go over today of the channel is a channel called how to with Doc and the the Video is called lawn and garden soil test online. Good morning Rob Now let me just say this before I start a few weeks ago. I did a turf thought in fact I probably should have had it queued up. I would play it again about Calling yourself dot. Okay. And what I'll say about it is this Imagine I've never been in the military Never have okay, but imagine if I went and introduced myself the last well at any point But safe. I've been doing it for years as I'm Lieutenant you know Travis Shaddix. I'm general Shaddix call me. I want you to call me general Shaddix I'm gonna refer to myself as gunny sergeant set Shaddix and I've never been in the military or Admiral Shaddix on my name's Admiral Shaddix from now on and then suddenly you guys find out that I've never been in the military It's called stolen valor I mean imagine the backlash that would happen if I was doing that for a while and certain people found out I've never even been in the military. Why is he calling himself? major Shaddix. I mean silly. I don't call myself the honorable Travis Shaddix because I'm not a judge okay, so It's just Peculiar to me how people will use the word doc in agriculture and just get away with it now I don't know that if this guy has been a war. I don't know his name If somebody knows his real name, I would I would refer to him as his real name Maybe he does have a doctorate degree from university. I have no clue. I hope he does I hope he's been awarded a degree a doctoral degree. I don't care if it's a juris doctorate It's philosophy doctorate a medical doctorate. I don't care Okay, you know filled Marshall Shaddix Imagine if I did that I don't care what degree he has if he's been awarded a doctoral degree, then he's a doctor. No problem But to call I was talking to my wife the other day And I said have you ever referred to yourself as doc? I've never done that not to say there's anything necessarily wrong with it. I've just never done that and I'm my wife's like well other people will say that but I've never no I've never done that it just seemed very strange to me to call yourself a Doctor when you're not a doctor. No, I'm not saying he's not. I don't know like I said. I don't know the guy's real name. I Don't know anything about them gentlemen. So It just seemed very peculiar that to call yourself doc and so I made that turf thought about it Like why would you do that? I mean even if you're doc. Okay. I mean I have a friend actually who I graduated who graduated a year Two before me actually I went to school with him and he prefers to be called doctor. So and so that's the what he gets A little uncomfortable when you don't call him doctor. Okay, no problem. I'll call you doctor if you're a doctor No, no problem. I don't feel comfortable calling myself doctor or I don't I feel weird with other doctors calling me doctor It doesn't you know, it's okay if other people call me that. That's fine, but It just I'm not I'm not that's not my thing. But it's his thing. He wants to be called doctor But he has been awarded a doctor of philosophy from a university. So I have no problem with that So I just want to know whether or not this gentleman's actually been awarded this and then by all means that's fine But if he hasn't I just Just seems strange that you know, I would call myself the reverend shatix when I'm not a reverend I mean just never just it just the disrespect and the level of the level of sort of just disrespect you have for people who have been Awarded that degree is mind-blowing to me. We can go down whether or not they're they're you know valuable to society There's only the most successful people I know Have have a high school degree. I know of one very specific example of Someone in my family who has a high school degree and I might I won't go down the list of people But there's several doctors in my family PhDs and other doctor degrees all of them combined Don't are not as wealthy as this one family member is and he has a high school degree So there's no you know, you know, you don't have to be you don't have to have a degree to be intelligent and to be successful Doesn't always work that way, but this particular setting where you have been awarded a degree Only then can you call yourself that I would never call myself lieutenant Chatics unless I've been awarded or been, you know Provided that distinction by the military I Don't know why people seem to be think it's okay to do this when you have a when you don't have a PhD in agriculture But you still call yourself dog now having said all that like I said, you may have it. He may have a degree I don't even care if it's an agriculture like I said could be in any degree I don't care and I'm perfectly fine calling that but I'm not gonna call him Doc unless I unless he's a doctor seems strange to me anyway Get off my soapbox for a little while We're gonna watch this video. It's only 19 minutes long and I'm gonna pause it I did watch a little bit of it and I'm gonna skip through it But it's about soil testing this gentleman for those people are listening or in his back using his backyard I guess he has a little putting green in his backyard. He has a flag stick back there And he's gonna be talking about soil testing and I'm gonna be commenting on it through the video and I'll let the end I'll show some PDF stuff, okay And if by the way, if there's any audio or video things bitch, please be polite and let me know in the comments And I'll try to make an adjustment on the fly Today here's what I'm gonna do I'm gonna take you up the farm property because I got to test one of those fields I'll show you how I take the test up there because it's the same as the lawn basically and Then I'll actually show you how I process that dirt and then this soil test now. I went online and I ordered Several different soil tests because I think the main reason people don't get soil tests is inconvenience And I wanted to find one that was super easy. That was fast accurate easy to read and I found a winner for sure So well, I do go do agree with him on that. I mean there there is I Think a misunderstanding or potentially some some naivety in Kind of missions. I'll just speak for myself when I was in the kind of mission. I just assumed people knew Where to go find information and where to go get soil tests and where the extension offices were I? Just thought that was common knowledge, but it's not I Mean that much my position now anyway my position now is most people don't know where to go get a soil sample bag And how to take a soil sample? That's true And if it were and later on he's gonna make a good a good point about having it be more simple and streamlined and More people would take it but my position has been if you've been a regular viewer of the channel is I'm not in favor of everybody going out in soil testing. It's just the way it is My opinion. I'm willing to change it. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but I've just seen so many wasted nutrients and so much damage caused by excessive applications of some elements and I've seen a connection between and there's data support a relationship between Taking soil samples and applying excessive amounts of nutrients to turf grass so until There's more information and more more evidence in my position is I wouldn't soil test Unless you have a problem or pre-existing condition It just that's just my position. I've never soil tested my home lawn unless I have a study on it, which I do now I've never tested never soil tested in Oklahoma never soil tested in Florida never soil tested in Kentucky my lawns always look fine Not to say that's the case with everybody I mean, it's not a good argument to say well Travis has never done it. So I'm not gonna do it either That's not a good argument. I'm just saying unless there's a problem. I don't see I don't see the benefit of going out and taking a soil test and His position is it's just not convenient and he's probably right. It's not convenient He had to go down the extension office and get a bag and then you have to go take a sample Then you probably have to drive it back to the extension office or take it to the soil test lab itself, so there is some convenience involved there that can be streamlined and I agree with him on that for sure it doesn't seem it doesn't seem to be as easy as it could be so Oh Charles Douglas says from the Doc's website. He's a marine. Oh really he's a Marine Corps veteran Father Grant father business entrepreneur So I just wonder what his name is and so if he's a Marine Corps veteran, he better be a doctor to call himself Doc He's got to know my but he's got to appreciate my point of not calling yourself a general when you're not a general So I'm gonna continue. Thanks for the comments Charles. I'm gonna continue See here So this is probably what I'm going to use for now on now a lot of you guys know that I've been using Clemson But uh even that can be kind of a pain in the butt and they've really gotten slow I mean two or three weeks. It took me to get a soil sample back from them You know two or three weeks is not that bad for universities, but I will acknowledge and completely agree with him and that there's other soil tests companies businesses that can turn those samples around much quicker one to two weeks UK University, Kentucky has an outstanding soil test lab and They'll turn around samples. I don't know what their turnaround time is it varies by season, but I'd say at the peak season where they have the most soil samples coming in. It's probably two weeks. They're in the peak season I mean, maybe they have a different time. That's that's just my Experience with them. So during the non-peak seasons they can do it in a week or so, but there's other soil test facilities That you can do it straight from your house and it's a valid a valid test and get the samples back on an email very quick Much the results back much quicker. So there is something to be learned from These companies that are doing it through the mail. You can still do it in a valid way but we need to adjust our operating procedure so Green's not looking too shabby and the lawns looking pretty good Let's go out to the farm and I actually went out real early. I got there at some I'm gonna skip forward here. He talks about dove hunting for a while, which um I'm all I haven't dove hunting in a long time, but uh It is a lot of fun Skip forward a little bit So I'm gonna come up here and um I'm gonna grab some soil samples out of these fields I've already done the upper field and I'm going to show you those results, but I also want to show you how I take samples because sampling up here Well at any agricultural field is the same as Sampling at your house What you want to do is you want to divide You want to divide your property Into certain territories. So if you have distinctive territories So for us, my upper field looks totally different Than my lower fields that soil is a dark brown These fields are a light brown almost a reddish hue to them because of the clay So I would not combine those two samples the same thing at home I would not combine my front yard and my backyard Yeah, so I think we're all familiar with that. You want a partition or you want to it's the normal word, uh Separate or segment the areas you want to identify different areas That that can be advantageous assuming that you have a problem. So if you have I don't know poor looking grass You wouldn't want to Blend that in with other areas that are Acceptable grass because if there is a soul soul issue Which it's unlikely that there would be there's probably a water problem or light problem or temperature problem or pest problem first But if it is a soil problem, you do need to separate those out need to partition the different locations a little bit So he's right about that I think we're all familiar with that something I wouldn't do Yeah, I would neither. I mean that there's clear evidence That that is what you want to do and the same thing happens for pathology samples You want to sample a little bit of the healthy turf and a little bit mostly two-thirds of the unhealthy turf So you have a the location where the pathogen exists and so forth same thing happens with Soul samples you want to know what the soil sample is just from the location that is unacceptable Because I know that they're completely different Not totally different, but there's enough of an area that's different. I need to take different samples Hey guys, so I'm out here in the fields today And basically what we're trying to do is we're trying to get a consensus So I'm trying to take a consensus of this whole area But I would not I think I think what he means is an average a consensus is just an agreement I think what he means is he's he wants to take like he wants to assume that the if he wants the average is Nutritional, you know, soil test value for the field the average or the mean I don't know what he means by consensus, but I think that's what he means because it consensus is just an agreement among people But maybe I digress sorry Brian take a consensus of This area plus that area back there I am going to this area looks the same and is about the same So let's say that this is my front yard and we might consider that my backyard and that's my side yard Yeah, that's a good good way to look at it. I mean he's out in the field. He has a I don't know a little Quarter acre plot here with a looks like a one inch center pivot drag hose out there I don't know what it is, but No, little quarter acre areas or they're about half acre areas, whatever they are and um, you know, he's just using that as an example to show different sections of your lawn that you might want to consider and that's And I'm in agreement So I would actually want to do probably three tests out here And I'm going to do the testing here the same way that you would do your testing at home And how is that? Oh, there goes a duck Sorry Um, all I'm going to do is I'm going to go down two or three inches. I'm not going to go deep Now you want to get below um below that All the grass and thatch layer when you're testing at home for me here I'm pretty much have raw soil. So yeah, he's basically in a For those listening he's it's not necessarily fallow, but it looks like it's tilled or been recently cultivated And he's saying he wants to take a soil sample from two to three inches. All right And he's using a garden spade and which happens quite frequently. You can actually use whatever you want to use Uh, but he's walking through the field and he's going to do this for the next a little bit And he's taking samples. I wanted the audience who's watching in the audience is listening I'm going to make a point here and then later after the after the video i'm going to bring up some pdfs and explain why this is a problem Okay Good morning. Aldo I'm just going to go in maybe about two inches. I'm mainly concerned right now about my root zone What that plant is going to be taking up over the first probably four to six weeks now see that sounds Accurate right it sounds logical. I'm only interested in the nutrients in my root zone And It does sound logical. I don't care what the nutrient values are below my root zone. I don't care what's in my root zone The problem with that and I think he's growing this in. I think he's just establishing it or something um, the problem with that is Is that? Nearly all the calibrations were done to a set depth usually six inches And if you're going to go in And you're going to take soil samples from two inches or one inch or three inch or 12 inch or whatever And then you're going to look at those values It is going to be a completely different Value than anything that we could interpret on a soil test because the soil test was conducted on a six inch soil depth So when for example, let's say the soil test value to six inch soil depth for phosphorus was 40 parts per million may like three And he goes in and takes a soil sample from two inches and he's thinking 40 parts per million make three is okay is is sufficient and he takes a sample from The top two inches and let's say it's 40 parts per million make three he's gonna go. Oh, well, it's okay But it was only taken from the top two inches meanwhile if he had taken that same sample from the top six inches It would it wouldn't have been 40. It might have been 10 or five Or whatever or it could have been a hundred could have been higher or lower. It's going to be different The point is it's not going to be the same in the top six inches as it will in the top two inches And because all of our interpretations and our our ability to interpret the number has been Performed on six inch soil depths It's like speaking a different language. I don't know what's going to happen in the top one inch or the top two inches of soil Okay, that's one problem. The next problem is He's not actually measuring two inches deep or three inches deep and the difference between two and three inches can be substantial But he's not even measuring. He has a garden spani just going through and digging up soil and doing his best to kind of measure that That's not the way we want a soil sample And I know that's the way it's been done for ages. I get that and we all been doing it and it's working. Dada. I hear all those arguments What I'm saying is imagine if a medical doctor went and did a did a a blood test or Let's just say a blood test. But imagine this isn't the case. But imagine if the depth of that needle Altered the number in your blood your cholesterol and your blood for example if you stuck the needle in one millimeter versus three millimeters or six millimeters or 12 millimeters imagine if the depth of the needle Changed the concentration of cholesterol in your blood or changed the the measurement of the cholesterol in your blood imagine if that's the case let's assume that's the case and then and If that were the case when you went in the doctor would be very precise with the depth of that needle because he or she would know that the depth Altered alters the tested value But we but in our world We have everybody else taking the depth of that needle not the doctor The doctor's never going out and taking samples from the soil. They're not doing it in in the exact Right depth. It's the human beings that are going out and doing it In the in soil science the depth of the sample is immensely important and immensely influential on the values that you end up finding on the soil test There's really no other variable that's more influential than the soil test depth that that's my position at least for now It's immensely important You have to get the same depth every time especially if you're going to go And measure those results over time and adjust your nutrient program because all my phosphorus went down since last year Well, what was the soil tips? What was the soil depth you took last year? I don't know two or three inches. Well, what was it this year? I don't know two or three inches So how do you know because if it was four or five inches last year or four or five inches this year? And it was two or three inches last year these are going to be different just because you sampled at a different depth This is not something to look over It is that influential and that important find some way To get your soil probe to stop at the same depth every time i've talked about this before you can weld something on the outside of your soil probe At six inches preferably or you can get a hose clamp and clamp it at six inches or clamp it at four inches or whatever Whatever depth the soil test lab is asking you to take the soil sample from And that way it stops the probe at the same depth every time Or very very close to the same depth. I should say much closer than just going in and walking through a field and digging up So I'm throwing in a bag. 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Yeah, I know he probably is that's that's the problem It is I don't know how More to magnify the importance of soul testing depth I don't really care what you what your soul tester values were from last year the year before the year before if you cannot convince me That you took the sample from the same depth every time Or at least made your best effort. I mean, maybe it was three a little over three and a little under three or a little I mean, but it's it's going to be close to that value every time I mean when you when I do it, it's to the freaking two millimeters off I mean it's the variation is almost zero. I mean it's very very close I get it in practice. You're not going to be that accurate or that precise. I should say But make it make an effort, you know try to get it to the same depth then we can talk numbers Then we can talk management practices, you know until then It's just a big box box. We don't know about Two or three inches now for this test, you don't really don't need that much material, which is nice I'm collecting more because i'm doing a consensus. So i'm coming through here. I'm opening it up And i'm just going to keep going around and what i'm going to do is i'm going to test this field Then we're going to go down. We're going to test that field down here. So now i'm in my back Okay, let me just say something real quick. So There's a comment in the chat I'll just politely say to all though. I don't know if that's true Okay, saying the same guy urges to spray viewers to use a hose in sprayer to mist sulfonarias Although I hope that's true But I don't want any I want to do what we can to minimize the misinformation on this channel If it's true, then it's true. Okay, maybe there's a link you can put in the chat, but I don't want to perpetuate any sort of Information that may not be accurate. It's particularly when it comes to pesticides That's why i'm particularly sensitive about that comment If it's true, then so be it post a link to it. But when it comes to pesticide applications, it's governed by a federal law The federal insecticide rodenticide and Fifth or whatever federal insecticide fungicide rodenticide act And so that's a very serious problem if they're if they're recommending Applying pesticides in an inappropriate manner Okay, so that's so long just with love although Just you know politely and respectfully. I want to make sure that that's a true statement Before I before we go too far down those roads. Anyway, we continue He just he basically what he's saying is he wants to take an average of these fields And he wants to kind of get you know, what is going on in this field versus that field and that is a central tenant of the methodology of a random sampling throughout a field we're assuming That we want to take the average of the field. There's another method where you just take one sample and there's a I forget the the I forget the philosophy or the the the name of the methodology, but there's a methodology In medical practice where you just sample certain locations certain sites of the body in this case the mouth You search you just sample certain locations. You don't sample the entire mouth. I forget what it's called as somebody's name I can't remember now. Anyway, it's very similar system where if you just take one sample Versus every sample in them in the mouth and you're going to base a treatment plan off of that you risk of um, you risk Missing deficiencies or toxicities. So if you take random samples throughout you increase your chances of catching the deficiencies or toxicities But you're assuming that you want the average of that field Or as if you just take one sample And you could happen to hit the spot that is very high Or very low or you could be on them in the middle So i'm i'm in favor if you're interested in knowing the average of this fairway of the average of the football field Of taking multiple samples because that's what that will do. All right Okay, thanks. Although I appreciate your you're following up on that. Thank you Backyard and I would do the same thing. I'll go over here I would go over here back and forth and back and forth. So This is my backyard. I'm going to take a consensus of this one. I have my sample I'm going to take this sample and what i'm going to do is i'm going to go home I'm going to put it on a I like to put mine on like a paper plate put it out in the sunshine I'm going to let it dry And then i'm going to find something to sort of screen out the the actual vegetation out of here That's what I want. I want to get that vegetation out of here And then i'll just take my little scoop. I'll put it in my container and send it off and i'm pretty much done So before okay, so before we go to the next part. I just want to say that Um, I'm in agreement take take multiple samples in a field Um, separate the fields separate your lawn front lawn board, whatever Football field one and football build two or fairway 18 versus fairway sea and do all that so that's all standard stuff But do not take samples like he took samples do not just go through and just randomly pick a depth and just uh two inches three inches Whatever have some good reasons why you're choosing that depth and be consistent on the depth. Okay I head back home and show you the test results. I want to go over something that's really important A lot of people freak out about a soil test and then they look at the recommendations The one thing I don't like about these companies is I do not like the recommendations they make for fertilizer Well, he and I agree on that, but he is going to become a massive massive hypocrite in about 10 minutes I agree the the recommendations from the companies I get it they can they can recommend whatever they want they got to make money somehow I don't have a problem with that. But scientifically speaking a recommendation is is Performed or provided via a calibration process So I'm going to recommend whenever the sulfate sulfur may like three sulfate sulfur level is say five partially million may like three sulfate sulfur. I'm going to recommend 60 pounds of Was now I'm going to mess it up 11 pounds of sulfate sulfur. I think it was 60 pounds of That same sulfate was what I was using. You know easily potassium sulfate or calcium So I can't remember but it's 11 pounds of sulfate sulfur per acre And the reason I can recommend that is because I've gone out and I've done a proper calibration with less amount of sulfur and more amount of sulfur And I figured out exactly what you need to apply in order to alleviate the deficiency So these recommendations on these soil tests I have almost zero confidence that there was any calibration done on it They don't know but they're recommending their products and there's nothing wrong with that As we will see at the end of the video He has a problem with them recommending their products, but he doesn't have any problem with him recommending his own products Let's check out the rest of the video. Sorry I got back a fertilizer test I got back a soil test and it gave me if you're going to use organic use this And if you're going to use synthetic use this and I did not like the numbers that they presented to me It just didn't make sense. So all I want you to focus on are two main things number one your ph Look at your ph and understand how that impacts again in the free long guides. I have that chart up that shows you. Oh, yes Here we go So you know you're dealing with the bs louders right here now first of all, let me say I agree on a hundred percent ph is immensely important There's very little More influential but inside in the soil waterlight temperature disease and insect damage and all that stuff. That's that's that's a given That's more influential, but in the soil there's very little influence more influential than soil ph very little But he puts the chart up for the soil solubility or nutrient solubility I think they even call it nutrient availability in this particular chart and i've i've Completely massacred that that chart if you those of you who are listening It's the chart where there's The show changes from ph4 to ph10 and it shows the phosphorus go up and the phosphorus go down and Then below it'll have potassium in the fat the potassium goes up and down I had two articles on this in two episodes on this specific diagram and which it just It there's basically no evidence to support this at all It's just fantasy and then I had an arm an episode a few weeks ago. Where was it? I did a powerpoint presentation on the influence of ph and in may like three Phosphorus potassium magnesium and zinc and it shows that it doesn't match that at all Not granted. This is solubility availability and I was measuring may like three. That's a different thing But you know for the best of our ability To see if there's any validity behind this this diagram there is no validity behind the diagram So when people I don't necessarily fault him for using it because a lot of people think that this is valid Um, but that is the definition of bs. He doesn't know he doesn't care He's just communicating what he's heard And he hasn't bothered to actually determine whether or not there's any evidence to support it and indicate whether it's true or not And he's going to use this to convince people to go and you know bias products or follow his recommendations or whatever he's trying to convince them of But please have no delusions. This chart is very dangerous It's very wasteful. You're going to apply a lot more nutrients than you ever would ever you ever would need to You're going to try to adjust ph Applying lime and applying sulfur. You're going to be applying all sorts of stuff Trying to move this ph into this 6.2 to 7.3 range and there may be Very very good reasons to do that. But the solubility Of phosphorous and some of these other elements is not one It's not a good reason to move the ph up or down into this range Okay, so please don't have any delusions and I have two or three episodes that go over that in great detail To how the ph impacts your soil and plant nutrient uptake. Yeah, it doesn't I mean it does Effect plant nutrient uptake. There's that's true, but that chart doesn't depict that. Okay The next thing you're going to look for just look for weird spikes Just because you're a little bit higher a little bit low is not all that important. You know, don't look at The copper. I've got excess copper big deal. It's not a big deal. Well, I agree I mean what he's saying is look for look for extreme values Start with ph. I agree look for extreme values. I agree I mean we're not I'm not interested in You know every micronutrient because the likelihood your your micronutrients are deficient to the point where they're inhibiting turf grass quality or growth is pretty low And beyond that I don't even really sure what the value should be on the mainly three soil tests for micronutrients for say Manganese or zinc kind of you know, zoys or grass fairway or something or football field I'm I don't even not even really confident on what that value should be because we haven't done a lot of work on that So I agree with him on that What I want you to look for is I want you to especially comes main thing is it's going to be phosphorus is watch that phosphorus level That's really important. Is it really is it way too high or is it really low? So you just want to watch that phosphorus level and the pH those are the two main things that I actually focus on. Yeah, I don't I don't have any issue with that at all I mean potassium can be an issue but almost never Magnesium can be an issue again, but almost never Solphate sulfur is is very commonly an issue, but I don't fault how old is this video? One year old I don't fault him for not including that because it's I hasn't really been on the forefront of people's minds until the last few years But sulfate sulfur is a huge thing, but I agree pH and phosphorus are important So here's my soil test. This is the one that I've chosen I okay, so for those listening he's talking about the my soil. I think I don't want to get these names wrong I don't want to say something bad about a company and then Is it my soil and a couple of them after I opened them and I read the instructions I threw them away. I'm like dude. I don't want to go through all this I can't remember the name of it's the name. He'll show in a second It's then it has that little ion bead or chamber that has an ion resin ion exchange resins in and we're gonna go over that in a little bit I didn't even bother with them There was another one that was pretty good. That was pretty close to this But this one I believe is probably one of the best now I don't know what he means by best but It is I mean I will I believe I am convinced But with a little bit of literature that exists in there and they are cultural literature and there's a tiny smidgen in turfgrass primarily on nitrates That this sort of technology may be very useful and valuable to turfgrass science the technology being the soil test technology being ion exchange resins um, I Not completely on board yet, but I do think that the next You know major progression in our science could very well come from this type of technology The problem is no one's done in calibration on it No one's done any correlation on it. I don't know I have besides nitrates and I know dr Glaard's done some work on in on nitrates and there's some little bit smidgen in there in there But I have no clue what the potassium should be on that test because there's no published literature on it I don't know what the magnesium should be I don't know what the pH should be even in these sorts of tests Why because no one's bothered actually publishing any research on it and until they do I don't have any good reasons to follow this specific test Now you will find some ion exchange membranes And some good data on an exchange membranes In row crops and toxic smidgen and turf, but I'm not I'm not interested in just that We want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples. I'm interested in that Specific test because ion exchange membranes are normally very specific to the ion So one ion that might be very productive and efficient and effective for nitrate would be not useful for potassium And vice versa or not useful for phosphorus and vice versa. So I don't know whether or not this particular bead Contains the appropriate types of ion exchange membranes to evaluate and assess all the anions and cations in the soil solution. I have no idea So until that bead is tested and that bead is published This particular test then there is zero reason to believe that it's accurate None And that's the value of epistemology. I don't need to know everything about everything. I don't need to know What the, you know Sting nematode range ranges for Bermuda grasslands. I don't need to know. I just got to go look in the literature. I just say I don't know Neither do they they haven't published it. So until they do I'm not convinced That's the position we hold we're always neutral until we find evidence to support one way or the other So I I protect myself against being taken advantage of by simply saying I don't know I haven't seen any evidence just because he's saying it on youtube doesn't make it true. They're from not convinced They continue So it comes in and basically it has a QR code. So you take your phone you scan your QR code And it'll ask you to create an account. Well, once you create an account, that's it You don't have to do anything else then what you're going to do is it'll ask you to enter There's a registration number on here and your registration number you enter it again to verify it and you're pretty much done Now you can go ahead and just put your sample into the into the jar I'll show you and send it off and you'll get a notification You'll get an email notification saying your sample was received in a few days And then a few days later, you'll see your results and you pull up you go on your app or on the computer You pull up your results and there it is and I'll put that up I'll put my results up in a minute on this front field. Yeah, and I agree that the I have actually Through research I have used this particular test and it is much more easy to use than the extension test I fully acknowledge that Your report that as soon as they post them online you get an email you just log in you see the results It's actually a very effective method and of course the Sol test results or I have no reason to believe them. Hey, uh, Charles your comment about another video He did nine months ago. I'm not familiar. I don't watch this guy's channel But if you know of another video he did nine months ago I'm happy to look at to see if it's something I want to go over or not Um, you say he does use a soul probe and in the next video He does or whatever. That's that's fine as long as he's trying to get the same depth and um, but I'm happy to look at any other videos, but I'm not a specialist in This particular channel and what he doesn't doesn't do. I don't want to watch it. I came across this one But again, the instructions are very simple. So what does the kit come with? It comes to that instruction card it comes with a self-addressed envelope So there's postage paid and the envelope's all ready. It is easy. That's one thing I like The other thing I like is I love this little test right here. Now this actually has the number right on the jar Um, there's other tests out there that you got to take the sticker off And then you got to put it on the jar and there's a bunch of it This one's right on the jar simple people keep it simple and then it comes with a It comes with a scoop, which you're going to put exactly this amount of dirt into this So when normal soil samples are done, you're going to get a big sample like a cup of soil And you're going to send it off like when I send mine off the Clemson and what they do is they break that soil They they actually dry it they grind it and then they break it into several different Little patches little tablespoons of soil And then each one of those goes into a different sort of testing solution and they break it down So you have all this soil is actually broken down more and more and more and more Did this is I mean I get I hear that sometimes where oh the soil testing lab grinds it down and breaks it apart and Yeah, we they dry it. I have a there was a video I had on the UK's website or So I had a walkthrough of the soil testing facility at the university of Kentucky and somewhere. I don't know where it exists anymore But yeah, we dry it. We grind it down We sieve it out. We you know scoop it out. This is all normal In terms of breaking it apart. I guess it depends on the lab. There's a separate we take a separate aliquat for pH and salinity and then we do another aliquat for Like all the elements when for the extraction and depending on the the level of precision you want you can break it apart and do you know, old sin and you can do Braid and you can do all sorts of different extractions with the phosphorus But they they say this as if it's some sort of disadvantage I mean it's more time and effort to get the sample you know Analyzed But it doesn't it doesn't matter It what matters is whether or not that process and through that process afterwards We have a calibrate or a correlation between the value we get off of it and the plant response and we do What we don't have is a calibration or correlation conducted on the sample that he has in his hand this cup with the water in it It does in other words, it doesn't matter. It's a it's a bad argument to Say like let's say his this test this soil. I don't forget the name the soil cup test thing To say well, there's no correlation between that in a melee three test There's no correlation between the pH and that and a pH of a normal soil test. There's no correlation there. It doesn't matter That's irrelevant. You're it's a non-sequitur. What you're doing What what matters is is the values they pull off of that bead and the pH they pull off of that process is that correlated with the soil and plant response Is there is a relationship there that we can Measure and if so, is it greater than or less than or equal to the existing gold standard soil test method? That's what matters Okay, so it's the same thing when you say well, you're breaking all these soil tests Soil samples apart and grinding them down. It doesn't matter What matters is whether or not there's a correlation after the process is completed So that's sort of the old school testing. This is the new this is this testing method has a little pod So if you see inside here, there's a little pod in that solution I believe the solution is distilled water, but there's a little pod in here What's the purpose of that pod? Well, when you put your soil in this you leave the water in it and it'll actually turn into sort of this liquefied solution That pod it's an ion exchange resin is what happens. What does that mean? It means that that little pod is going to uptake nutrients the same way it replicates how a plant uptakes nutrients. Well, that's Not that really true. I mean it does The idea is is that the the absorption of these nutrients on a solution is more similar with this pod to a nutrient uptake or absorption from by the root than the acid extractions or the you know the extractant methods In other words, it's absorbing nutrients onto onto the surface rather than extracting it off of the kind of exchange side of the organic matter So there is a little bit there. What he's saying is basically it's just even didn't quite word it right But I mean what he's saying is the concept is valid So just because you have A certain nutrient just because you have x in your soil doesn't mean that the plant is going to uptake that in that form it takes it up in a different form Yeah, and the soil test that we currently just don't say that I mean unless the soil science is doing it is is ignorant or incorrect I mean we wouldn't we would never say the the value that you see on a soil test extracted value is the form and the amount That's going to take up. We would never say that The purpose of a of a no of a traditional soil test is to extract a quantity that is Anticipated to be available or to be you know soluble eyes throughout the growing season And that needs to be correlated with a plant response And if it's not correlated with the plant response, then we go back to the square one and go back to the draw board So whether it doesn't in other words, like say there's 30 parts of a million or though or say phosphorus on a malek three soil test It doesn't mean that that's Exactly what's going to be taken up or the form is going to be taken up in particularly phosphorus because it's so dependent on p8 the species of phosphorus so depending on pH, but Yeah, he's saying that and then he's going to argue that the form that the ion bead Absorbs is the form it's going to be taken up. It's just a bad argument because that's not it's a little bit of straw man Because that's not what soil scientists are saying So This little pod replicates the uptake of an actual plant and that's why this test is so effective Well, I mean you can you can say whatever you want to say all I want to know is is there a correlation I don't care if you mix that up with coffee or coulade Or you know deer urine. I don't care Use whatever you want to use pure water. I mean borons extracted with hot water So use whatever you want any method you want you can go out to a field Open it up and look at it with your eye And if you can consistently tell me how much phosphorus is in that field in a more Accurate in repeatable way than a soil test can then i'll go by your eye. It doesn't matter It doesn't in other words. It doesn't matter the methodology what matters is how strong is the correlation between the methodology and a plant response Okay So So you just basically you just open this up you pour your soil in from the scoop And then you close it up. You pop it into your little magic bag Pop it into little magic bag Seal it put it in your mailbox put your flag up and you're done. Isn't that cool So I don't know why more and more people Testing places don't don't do this why they don't upgrade their their um their technology. Yeah, no, I agree complete with that There's a hundred percent agreement with them on that Maybe maybe place a little more Wrong spot there. Um charles you comment. Um, I think for some reason youtube blocks links So just shoot me an email with the link to that video you're talking about. I appreciate you looking that up for me charles But yeah, just shoot me an email with it. I believe you have a you have my email It's on if not it's in the description of the video Okay, so, you know, there's a lot that he says that I'm I agree with it Just a lot of it is you know the other parts or our misunderstandings or nonsense I'm gonna skip forward a little bit here and we're gonna continue at 12 minutes and 20 seconds dry out Redneck ingenuity here So I've had my soil sample Sitting on this box for about Three hours on the sunshine and it's completely dry Normally I can just crunch this up by hand, but this is so hard. I actually stole one of my landscape bricks So what he's doing is he's just trying to grind down the sample I guess and he's gonna sieve it out to get a representative sample to put in this cup And he goes through a little process here where he does that. I'm not I'm not sure why he would argue that the soil sample lab is gonna do this and therefore it's You know, I guess what he was inferring was that it's Less valid and then he turns around and does the same thing, but whatever maybe I'm misunderstanding him Um, but I'm gonna skip ahead To and he talks about sieving it out and getting the organic matter out I would prefer people just don't do that because the lab's gonna do that anyway and believe me One technician for a week is probably gonna do more soil samples Then you will in your entire lifetime so they know what they're doing in terms of this consistency in the methodology Okay, in other words, I'd rather put it in the hands of someone who's very very consistent with the way they do it Then to leave it up into someone else just you know selecting whatever depth they want to select So i'm gonna select i'm sorry selecting whatever methodology or removing whatever they want after that I'm gonna skip forward if it if it lets me hear To about 15 16 minutes if it kind of things up on me here we go Finish this up real quick So i've done all my soil testing i've gone out. It's pretty simple. Like I said, you just get the soil dry it out crush it up Take the scoop put it into container and send it off and it's fast It is Five or six days is typically what i'm getting it depending on when you mail it Yeah, I've got the same response usually very quick Now when you go online you go back online you'll get an email saying hey your analysis is ready You click on it log back in and there it is you click on it and it's very easy to read It is so i'll actually put i'll put the lower field up on the screen and i've got a copy of my hand It's very easy to read. It's just there's no reason to believe it's true. That's the problem It's very easy to read, you know Science fiction none of it's true you know I mean Is you know Easability of it is actually very true. I mean it's very accurate I mean very what he's saying is very true in the sense that is very easy to read and to know to get but it just I have no confidence in the results Uh, there is a print icon On that or you can print it, but I don't like the way it prints out So I actually did a screen grab and actually put it into a pdf. So it would be easier. I don't like the way That's one improvement they could do is they could make their print out look just like Um, what is on the computer screen? I wish they would do that anyways Here's the mistake that a lot of people are going to make A lot of people are going to go try and go too in-depth in their analysis because all I really care about if you look at Down here if you look at the charts, okay I want you to look at these charts over here the macro nutrients and the first three year really what i'm all The only thing i'm going to be concerned about yeah So what he's showing on the screen here is the manner in which they display the results in the interpretation Actually, this the bar graph is the interpretation The results over here are the values where it says ph is 5.98 And like I said, it doesn't matter whether this if you take the exact same soil sample and send it to a lab And send this another sample from the same soil to this lab. They could have two different soil ph's. It's irrelevant Doesn't matter what matters is whether or not they have a correlation to the ph measured under this methodology because the lab does I'm going to show you that Okay, and it comes to total nitrogen ammonium phosphorus all these values. I don't even I guess these are in parts Yeah parts per million So 22 parts million phosphorus. He all means I can't really mark on this but it says 22 parts million phosphorus And it says optimal ranges 10 to 25 The question is how do you know how do they know the optimum range is 10 to 25 They must have done some work on it unless they just pulled this out of thin air But because I am unable To find any evidence in the literature to support any of this nonsense. I am Labeling it as nonsense. There's no reason to believe it I'm not saying it's not true I'm just saying There's no reason to believe it because I haven't seen any evidence to support the position And That's one like I said, that's one reason why the epistemological approach can be so valuable to people because you don't need to know everything Just show me evidence Let me read it. Let me go through it critically review the evidence that you're going to present you and I'm not going to really accept Anything unless it's in a scientifically reviewed and peer-reviewed referee journal. I don't care what you have on a marketing scene I don't care what research you posted on your website. I Want to see you in a referee publication? Show it to me. Let me read through it. That will be convincing to me one way or the other or it's going to be at least Tend to sway me one way or the other might not be completely convinced But these these results where it says optimal has a range for the interpretation of phosphuses within this range Manganese is above the range and so forth All that may be a hundred percent true and there's a hundred there's zero percent a reason why I should believe it's true Okay, that's the way to approach when you when you're when you're presented information like this I'm not saying it's not true. Just saying I don't believe you That's all So my nitrogen phosphorus and potassium my phosphorus and potassium are actually in The optimal range and my nitrogen is very low So what does that mean and some people might say if you're not familiar with this, which is cool There's not many people as nerdy as I am that gonna go into this Some people I say you can't use nitrogen on soil tests, which is in a traditional soil test That's true. It's very difficult to correlate nitrogen values in the soil with A anticipated turf response, but on ion exchange membranes there is a little bit of information to support that position particularly with nitrate Okay, they don't even have nitro they guys have total. I don't know how they got total, but um There is a little bit there and it's not really enough to convince me it isn't refereeed papers But it's saying I don't know if there's enough for me to really recommend that but there at least is something Okay Means that my fields Probably need to have some nitrogen now. I've already got Leafy greens growing so I don't want to spray liquid nitrogen out there Um and potentially burn them so i'm going to get a granular Nitrogen and put it out on a dry day So that it falls down to the ground and then we'll water it in or let the rain push it in The only other thing I really care about is my pH And it says my pH is a 5.98 and it says it's pretty much optimal So i'm right out of six on that pH on the lower field I start to worry about my pH when I break five to be honest I see I I agree with him and a lot of people's email me and they say what do I think when I think there's a lot of stuff he says in here I don't really have a problem with I don't really get that worried about pH as long as my turf looks fine and acceptable Until if it's between five and eight, I don't really worry about that much You get down to the low fives and the high fours and the turf and the turf grass looks unacceptable then I'll start worrying about it And until then I don't see much value and throwing out a bunch of lime trying to move your pH up And what I mean by value is am I going to see some beneficial response in the turf as a result to me applying lime I am and so be it but I just I'm not convinced that you would really see a much root much of a response Particularly if your turf grasses are already acceptable So when I'm seeing something below a five, that's when I kind of freak out and I'm like dude, I got to get some lime down here So again focus on your three main nutrients your nitrogen your phosphorus your potassium and focus on your pH and don't overreact they All these places and you're that they'll come back with you need to apply three quarters of a pound Of synthetic Zero zero So they want three quarters of a pound per square foot Per 100 square feet of a synthetic 46 Zero zero and I'm like this is where you start to get in trouble. Oh, why? Why? Your phosphorus is fine your potassium is fine magnesium is fine Everything looks good You can't just apply nitrogen you're gonna get in trouble. How? Why? Done it for years In fact, I would venture to say I don't think I've ever applied anything other than nitrogen on my own turf In in research I'll be say it's very different. We have to do all sorts of crazy stuff But I'm not sure I applied anything or the nitrogen in Fort Lauderdale and Gainesville and Shawnee and Lexington I don't think I've applied anything with that. It looks fine If you are low on nitrogen just put out a pgf complete. That's all you're gonna do Put it out pgf complete. That's so he just said at the beginning of the video. I don't like these recommendations. They put on here I just don't I don't don't don't don't agree with that, but then he just turns around does the same thing I mean, well, I I mean I don't does I don't know if he owns the pgf complete or if he's like the The I don't know the driver behind it. I don't I don't know. I think it's an Anderson's product Um, but how can you just say? Well, I don't like the recommendations in 46. So I just follow my recommendations. Don't follow theirs Kind of hypocrite is that Don't worry about it again The only time I would probably kind of be concerned and maybe look at switching Is if I had a really high phosphorus level Not just a little bit high, but I mean really high at that point. I would go to something like a pgf complete Zero phosphorus. So that is available as well too. I mean that's it. I mean that's so I just I want it ended there It's like well, I I don't have a problem with any company promoting their product Whether you're gonna you're gonna critique them for promoting their product and you're just gonna turn around and do the same thing I mean Let's just let them do it and then you do it too. I want a problem with that I have a problem with you critiquing them and then saying do you do the exact same thing that they just did Now basically what I want to do now is just real briefly for maybe five or ten minutes I want to go over two articles and I'm not gonna go over the article I'm gonna go over the articles later And I'm maybe three or four weeks from now But I'm gonna go over a couple little blips on these these articles to enforce my position and my in his position is Um, well Just sample two or three inches and just walk through the field and pick up soil sample depths and doesn't really matter Two or three inches is fine And the depth is in terms of consistency between sampling there was no none of that in here He doesn't make any difference to him and what I wanted to show is a couple articles this article which I'll go over in a few weeks is entitled the effect of timing and depth of sampling upon soil test results by child and jinx and this was in soil science of american journal or agronomy journal I can't remember. I think it was agronomy journal. I don't remember now Anyway, one of our top journals And I'll go over this in a little while but what I want to point out is is here We have months of the year on the x-axis and we have depth of zero to five centimeters and then zero to 15 centimeters And the the depth of the sample was taken And you'll notice a couple things one is my position if you haven't heard it by now My position on sampling timing is to sample when the salt when it's likely that your nutrients are at their lowest So you have the greatest chances of diagnosing a deficiency If you sample when they're at their highest and the highest is right at the limit You're gonna go i'm fine. And then throughout the year, it's gonna be below the limit You don't want to run into that scenario. So you want to try to sample when the nutrients are at their lowest in this particular scenario I believe this was in north carolina. I can't remember now. I'll go over it in a little while We see the nutrients are at their greatest in the fall in the winter October, November and December and they're at their lowest in May, June and July at the beginning at the end of the spring And this is when i've said to soil sample generally if you if you don't already know Then try to sample you probably in the spring before your fertilizer application occurs There's a lot of numbers in the literature that support that statement or the spring generally is the lowest Before you apply the fertilizer. That's when you're going to get the lowest That's what we see in the zero to five centimeter depth And that's what we see in the zero to 15 centimeter depth on this paper for available phosphorus Now notice the zero to five notice the scale it's it's from 20 to 60 parts per million Available phosphorus at zero zero to five centimeters It peaks at about 50 parts per million and it goes down to about 30 parts per million But when we go down in depth it only peaks at 40 parts per million and it goes down to about 20 so that the The amount of thought oops. I'm not this isn't on here. Hang on. I'm I'm showing talking all the stuff. It's not on the screen the The concentration of phosphorus was greatest at the zero to five centimeter depth And it was lower by a factor of about 20 percent lower at the zero to 15 centimeter depth So what that's saying is if then this is zero to 15 centimeters is zero to six inches So if the calibration was conducted on this sample zero to 15 centimeters, which is Probably the case and you go along and take a sample at two inches You're going to say well on average is going to be about 20 percent greater in the top on this particular study About 20 percent greater in that top two inches than it was at the at the top six inches and you're going to go Oh, well my phosphorus is you know, we'll pick a number 20 25 I'm fine In the top two inches, but the reality was if you'd taken it from the top six inches It would have been below the critical limit or vice versa. I mean the the phosphorus value will change I mean it's not always it doesn't always decline in depth, but normally it does. I'm sorry The the concentration will be greatest at the top usually not always and in a little decline with depth so you see the diff the issue is is that there is a difference in nutrient extractability or soil test values based upon the depth it was taken And the season that the the month that it was taken So if you're going to come along and say I'm a sample this year in january and next year I'm a sample in june and then you're going to come to me and say well The samples have been changing over time. Yeah, just the just the season that you take it is going to change The depth that you take it is going to change the value But not change the value just the number that comes off the instrument is going to be different Same thing with potassium Okay, there's the potassium Was up around 160 parts per million at the zero five at the highest it was around 120 or so when it was taken in a deeper depth Okay, so depth matters time of year matters be be be specific when you're doing it Okay, the depth that you're doing it. These need to be You know controlled for the next the next one. I'll go over real quick and then what will be done is soil sampling depth effect on critical soil test values of phosphorus for conservation agriculture This is by teacher and several other authors and this was in This is a public this is an open access article. This was in crop forage and turf grass management just last year I'm just going to show you a couple graphs in here. I'll go over this later And what this shows here with the graphs. I'm showing on the on the screen now or showing soil available phosphorus and pounds per acre From zero to 600 and then soil depth from zero to 10 inches and they're applying different rates of phosphorus here Okay, these are different amounts of phosphorus they're applying And you see the phosphorus is very high in the top two inches and it declines when we get deeper 10 to six inches So we're we're looking at depending on the rate you applied That the the highest rate was 600 pounds per million or I'm sorry pounds per acre Phosphorus at zero to two and when you get down to six inches, it's only about 150 pounds per acre So we're seeing a great deal of decline and the amount of available phosphorus The deeper the soil probe goes It's critical. You have to you have to you have to acknowledge that and control for that Now here is the important part that I want to go over real quick This in this particular example, I think they're looking at corn yield I can't remember now. I'll have to read this paper. Um on here But this is relative corn yield on yield on the y-axis and then may like three pounds phosphorus and pounds per acre on the x-axis From zero to 600 in relative year of course from zero to 100 And we have different rates of phosphorus and what I want to point out is right here the critical phosphorus level From zero to two inches was 130 pounds per acre That's the critical phosphorus level meaning that If you take an a soil sample from the zero to two inches depth, you would need to be greater at that point or greater In order to maximize your yield Anything below 130 pounds per acre you would see a decline in yield And when you go to zero to four inches, it now drops from 130 to 120 or to 110 Okay, zero to eight inches it declines to 86 pounds per acre Zero to 12 inches it declines to 74 pounds per acre So the lower we go The lower is the critical level For phosphorus to maximize yield Then the lower in depth we go Meaning that the critical level for phosphorus Is going to be different based upon the depth that you take the sample And if if the depth we took the sample Which is normally the case between zero and six inches you need to stay at that if you're going to use That value or that interpretation as a means to apply phosphorus or potassium or whatever Oh, well, the the sample says I'm at you know 30 parts per million I need to apply phosphorus or I don't need to apply phosphorus Well, if you took it from zero to six inches, you could have some confidence in that in that decision But if you took it from two inches That's a different value. It's a different scale, I guess as a way to say the critical value is going to be different at a different depth So we need to maintain the same depth Not just walk through a field with a garden spade and just grab some soil and throw it in a plastic bag like what he was doing on the video You don't want to do that Maintain the same depth and to Charles who said you had a video Please send me the video on an email Charles and if he's made an adjustment to his management practice great This video still is on youtube. So i'm assuming he's um You know Still promoting it because he's still showing it on youtube And to kunhong favor, he's a salesperson. I have no problem with that I know a lot of salespeople I was on his phone phone just the other day with a salesperson down in south florida or in west pon beach floor Love the guy talk to him regularly. Okay. Nope. No problem with salespeople I have to buy my product from somewhere. It's just though in order But there there are jobs the salespeople's job and I this comes directly from a colleague I used to work for who also has a pht He said Travis my job is not to educate my customers. My job is to sell product to the customers and he's right His job he's not getting paid to educate his customers some salesman may choose to do that There's no question about it. They may feel that great provides a greater value to their customers and they may choose to do that But that's not what they're getting paid on they're getting paid on margin That's what they're there for and there's nothing wrong with that Okay, thanks bad days 24/7. I haven't seen you in a little bit bad days. I haven't seen you in a while So thanks for the comments as you love this format and I'll see what I can do I'm gonna stay with this probably for a few weeks because there's so many videos backed up that I just never going to get to Unless I just dedicate a day and just knock out the videos as best I can. Okay guys. I really appreciate everybody showing up I'll be back on thursday where we're going to talk about uh dr William obrecht and we're going to go through and explain exactly what he misunderstood And um how the base kind saturation ratio has been around for years and it is um A result of a misunderstanding. Okay, and a miss misinterpretation So thanks gray. Thanks randy appreciate you guys. Thanks everybody for showing up today. Have a good day. Bye Does your summer need a boost? 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