The conversation explores the importance of mindfulness and awareness in today's society. It discusses how life has become easier in terms of practicality, but the mind has more time to worry and create issues. The hosts emphasize the need for awareness to navigate through life and not get caught up in the manipulation tactics of the media. They also touch on the idea that suffering is a choice and that carrying the metaphorical cross of life can be reframed. The conversation concludes by highlighting the importance of collaboration and the role of mindfulness in mental health. In this conversation, the hosts discuss the concept of faith and the power of belief. They explore the idea that faith can be found in both religious and mindfulness practices, and that it is not dependent on a specific story or label. They emphasize the importance of forgiveness, healing, and awareness in both paths. The hosts also touch on the topics of suffering, the nature of time, and the significance of living in the present moment. Overall, the conversation highlights the interconnectedness of different belief systems and the importance of finding a path that resonates with each individual.
The Universal Lens
Episode 76 - Faith Beyond Stories and Labels
(upbeat music) - Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Universal Lens. I am John Emilio as always. - Am I? - I fucked you to fight. (laughs) Until I left the right Anthony and Henry and Anthony, actually, left and right, here as always. Thank you guys for coming back and I hope everybody had a nice week. - We missed a week last week. - Good. - We were patriotic. - We were patriotic. I wasn't here. But we're back. We're back. We've been talking about a lot of different things for a purpose. - I wish we would have hit record. Here's some good stuff like that. - Some of the conversations would not have been Universal Lens appropriate, properly, but. - You know what we need to do is next time, we just need to come in, sit down, hit record and just. - Yeah. - And just let it go. - Yeah, but it depends what you're going to risk. - So you hit it. - Edit. - Put it together and you know what that is. - Yeah, I got it. - And John, just John, what else are you doing? Every time I talk to you every morning, you're like, I got nothing later. - Me and Anthony got a guy. - Yeah. - John, John and Amelia. - John just said it, just said it didn't go. John just said it didn't go. - That's too, too much. - Not too much, too much, too much. The editing isn't a hard, it's not that it's hard. It's just. - It is. - It's hard to see. - Especially if I have to edit out like nonsense conversation. - It may not be nonsense. It may just be, it was a good sample. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a couple in there that had nothing to do with, I don't know what. We're talking about Florida real soon, at one point. - Well, at one point, yeah. - And the gospel of the came into it, Jesus Christ, the chosen series, talking about that and how really the mindfulness really plays into in one's parallel, I think personally with Christianity. And now that John started watching the shows and I think he sees that parallel also, which is pretty cool. - Yeah, no, I've enjoyed the show. I've definitely enjoyed the show from a, I mean, I think it's well done, first of all, but I've enjoyed the show just to watch the story and how, you know, obviously we all know how it plays out. If you were brought up where we catholic, you know the story, I mean to hear what he does. But. - There was a better, an old time bestseller about it. (laughing) - And there he was. - And every whole album has one in the drawer. - No soy copies though. - No, south rescue. - No shot. - In the back of the head, no laser. - No, yeah, no, no science copies. Anyway, we're talking about that. And yeah, it's been fun to see the parallels and we've spoken about it on the show a few other times with the parallels of mindfulness and awareness and the words that they use and the words that they even choose to use. But one of the things, I mean, we like I said, we've spoken about those parallels. So maybe not even to go into that too much. But one of the things that I'm kind of noticing, and I want to say, I heard Eckhart Tolle mention it and I'm not comparing it to it. But I heard Eckhart Tolle say this and actually heard in the chosen, I could have swear I heard the Jesus Christ, the activist playing Jesus, Jesus' character, say the same thing where you almost suffering is almost an inevitable part of awakening. So in order to awaken, you almost, honestly it's required, but it's almost recommended that something in your life brings you there. It's almost hard to get there without it because it's a, almost a test of, if you're religious, a test of fate. - Right. - Or if your employers are saying, blessed are the problems or issues that bring you closer to God. - Yeah. - It is something, yeah, you do have to get down low into the trenches and be, you know, to want to search for something better. - Really? Otherwise, if the life is going dandy, what are you searching for? - Well, I think that was the point. It was if everything is going well all the time. And that's great if it is. I'm, you know, obviously that's awesome for this. Everything is going well all the time. Where does that challenge come from that helps you break free of the shackles of the wine? So your mind will keep you in its own, like you've said before, your mind, it's very subjective. It's what you, what you believe, what your mind is telling you is what your reality is. So until that reality gets shaken by something, you know, when do you get to say, hold on a second, I don't have to believe everything that I'm beat. - Well, just holding my hand. - Just testing it alone is going to rattle some people. Like, what do you mean? Yeah, literally your life and how you see it is subjective. And there's going to be people go, dude, that doesn't make sense. So if all of a sudden I say that I'm going to have a good day, that's it, it's a good day. - It's very simplified, but yes. I think you would increase your odds of having a good day with a positive mindset. If you wake up feeling, knowing that your situation is subjective and knowing that your thoughts come from some sort of consciousness affect your consciousness by programming your subconscious and then better thoughts will come to the surface. But better thoughts don't always come to the surface. Sometimes you have these nasty thoughts and these thoughts that are not, I'd say unprovoked, hence likefulness. And then you realize you have such power. So you have the power to do a lot. - Are you aware enough to know? So the biggest question I think is, are you aware enough to know if something's off? So you, we see people in our lives, I see people walking in life every day who are, so not actually talking to my wife about this yesterday, who are in tune, in tow with the way they think that they would rather be miserable in what they believe they know than to awaken or become aware, to go to have that presence of mind, to pull back and be like, I'm afraid. I don't like, hold on a second, I don't like the way I'm doing things. And I think Dr. Jordan Peterson said the same thing once. And he actually made a religious reference, I don't remember it, but he said something to the same effect where he goes, are you aware enough? Do you have the wherewithal to realize that you're making, that you're affecting not only your life, but the people around you with the way you're acting, do you, is that awareness there? And I think if it's not there, you suffer in silence without even knowing it. So this is, you could you believe this is how I have to be, this is how I have to live, until something either, you know, and not that you want something tragically tragic to happen to somebody or something catastrophic, but you have that moment where you're brought, because they, what do they say? Humanity won't change until it's brought to the precipice of disaster. So we, as a species, we won't make you change until we're at the edge of the cliff. We're like, okay, one more step and we're done. Now let's start the back up. Meanwhile, we've been seeing that cliff coming for years, for weeks, the human nature. So until you get to that point, if you don't have any awareness, you have, you wait to get to that point until you're like, all right, oh, hold on. Unfortunately, some people don't even realize that, and they just go right over them, and they just live their lives and complete, you know, unconsciousness, not, and make it everybody around them is both the same time, depending on what situation is. But if you don't have that, any awareness at all, you believe that that suffering is just what you, is just my life. This is where my life is, right? So when I said before, I think suffering is important. It is very important. I think it's an important thing to experience if you truly want to awaken, but when that suffering comes, whatever that event is, because I think everybody has an event in their life. And some people have multiple work, but there's always one, at least one of that first one, right, that takes you to that point where you're like, all right, hold, do I want to make a change here? I was like, am I aware enough to realize that something is off? Do you think everybody has that? What? - I'm curious, so you think everybody gets that, that hitting so low that you feel it's time to make a change? Because I think there are some people that are lucky enough. I'm not talking about you. - Oh, yes. - Yeah, yeah. - And remember passing away that happens to everyone? - Sure. - You're talking about what doesn't happen to everyone. - And those people. - You drag, you so far down, you're like, something's got to change. - Yeah, so those people, and I've actually had this conversation with therapists, like some people live in a box and that box lasts their whole life. And they're able to live in that box their whole life. And the answer to that is, yes, there are people, and it is what it is, if they live like that, then they live like that. Okay, good for them, great for them. For me, it's a shame because they never got to experience the, as good as things go in your life, we're not meant to live a comfortable life 24/7, 365. I don't think we're meant spiritually to live like that, physically to live like that. I think our bodies, our minds, our spirit is meant to be tested, meant to be always to the point where we're not unconscious because when you're comfortable, what do you do? It's like a bad habit. You're going to a bad habit. Why are you going to a bad habit because you have no awareness of what's going on? Your mind says, "No, no, go, go." And you do it, and you do it, and you do it. There's no awareness there, right? So if you have that awareness, I think you're able to realize when that moment does come, that wow moment, whatever it might be, that financial health, whatever it might be, one of the million things that can happen in life, right? Well, you realize, wait a second, I don't have to suffer like this. I have a, and I say this in my book, that it's a choice, but until you realize it, it's a choice. - You're going to suffer. - You're going to suffer, and you're going to do it almost willingly because you believe this is how I must be. It's like the old women, the Italian women, when somebody dies, they were blocked for the rest of their life. And I look at them and go, "I get it. You want to mourn somebody." Beautiful. You want to respectfully mourn somebody who passes away. But why do you choose to mourn for the rest of your life? You're choosing to suffer the rest of your life, and carry that pain instead of saying, "Yes, that pain was there, but now I'm going to put it down and live my life." And that person who died wouldn't want you to be there. - Yes, but in their mind, because there's no, I want to say, and by the way, very religious women, or to do this, a God-fearing, God-loving women, right? There's no awareness. And I'm not picking on the no-no's out there, so I don't need any grandmas or no-no man in me, but that awareness isn't there for them to realize why do I have to choose to carry this burden for the rest of my life? But if you don't realize you have that choice, you do it willingly. - My question to you is, what do you think now in today's age, time and age, that mindfulness and awareness is so prevalent, so needed now, instead of, look at the greatest generation around World War II. You think you were talking about mindfulness? You think you were talking about having to put down the pain and what-- - I'm curious of the question? - I'm curious what the difference now is that it's become, like, we really got to start working on mental health. - I like that question, but I have a question for you. - You said that was a greatest generation. - I feel-- - Well, what reason? - Hold on, hold on. - And this is the title we're talking about. - You want to know why, because almost all everyone answered the call to defend. - All right, so you're talking about it? - You're talking about it. - A lot of women went to the fact that-- - Yeah, so you're talking about what was needed and this is what we're going to do. - Yeah, I feel against, you know, I mean, think about it, the greatest generation, was there crime like there is now, where there are things going on. - No, World War II. - It gives them a different place. - Yeah, so they had a chance to be the greatest generation. - Yeah, okay, yeah, I was just curious, kind of where, like, where you, like-- - But every day-- - Don't give me all that. Every generation. - And when it gets that generation. - People off to war, those people who go, that generation is greatest generation. - I got a better, I mean, what the greatest generation is going to be? The generation is not to send anybody to war. - Of course, but that's-- - But that's going to happen. - But that's fiction. That's just not the way the world works, because not everybody's on the same page. - No, I get it, but it can be. With-- - Everybody being on the same page. - To tying to your, and this is going to, that's why I was kind of going there, to tying to what you were saying. You want to take it or? - No. - Yes. - Okay. - He's waiting for the answer to this. To tying to what you were saying before, why is it more prevalent nowadays? - Yes. - Because I believe people realize more and more nowadays that they have a choice in how to live their lives. They don't have to live, people don't have to live. So you think why is, your question was why is, why do you think that these days, the days where now are people-- - Are talking more about-- - Mental health care more now, and you know, where now you have act, you have the awareness, the therapy. - Because generation, the generation, we've fallen more unconscious, and more unconscious, and more unconscious. - I also make this generation-- - So they're very complicated. - So, no, but they're so complicated that people-- - Yeah, but that's personal-- - Process. - That's personal choices, boom, boom, boom, boom. - Yeah, I'm sorry. - You understand what I'm saying? - Yeah, no, I was doing yoga. - I was doing yoga, so I'm going to joke more often. - I was trying to, generation after generation after generation, we become, I believe, right, from what I could kind of see, in more. And I'm not going to use the word people with tougher, people with more, because there was just a bigger ego back then, and yes, did it have its place? Was it useful for things? I'm sure it was, but I think generation after generation, we've gotten more unconscious. - It has nothing to do with how strong we are, how weak we are, how strong you are. - You don't think it was a simpler, simpler time, simpler life? - Yes, so technology and life is moving faster, and that's what, so one of the things that makes us more unconscious is things have gotten easier for us as a species. - I was just going to say, you're right, comparing Apple stuff. - You're not going to, so things have gotten, well, I was trying to get, you probably got there in three words, I had to get there. I needed about 100, so in other words, what Henry just said, but that was my point. - My point is that it's more like one, one, two words. - I'm more, you said it's more complicated, and life has gotten easier for people, no. - So no, meaning 50, 60, 70 years ago, most people did not have, 90% of the people in this country did not have the luxuries that they have now a day. - Nobody went to college, oh, all day. - But yes, if you have a college, you didn't get hot water in your house, was a luxury during World War II. - They had ice pops. - Ice pops. - Yeah. - Ice pops, I'm a refrigerator, so there was a, there was a proponent of suffering that was already built into the way you lived your life, because things were tougher, and it wasn't even considered suffering, it was just the way it is. As things have gotten easier, what happens to the mind? So people back then, their mind was, we need to keep my food cold, I have to make sure it is. I have a responsibility to make sure this happens. - When you have this, it was simplistic then now. - Simplistic, simple, I think it's the old information overload of today that has been driving mental health into the ground. - Yes, just an old, old load of that. I think that's the cherry on the ground. - So why not? - You can text John right now, get a hold of you. - Yeah. - Like that. - So I think in the day, they have to call the corner store. - I think that's really important. - I think operator. - I think that, I think that's the cherry on top. Our minds were so occupied in survival back then. It did not, because of all of them. So watch this, as the mind, as the mind as we evolve, so does the mind. And as things get easier for us, the mind doesn't shut down and go, okay, you don't need me anymore, everything's on cruise. The mind goes, how do I protect Anthony? Okay, Anthony doesn't have to worry about the freezer because we have freezes and have to worry about the icebox. And you have to worry about putting coal and wood in the fireplace where we're gonna freeze tonight. He's got a heated house with a thermoset. - No, it takes care of that thing. - No, it didn't break down though. - An icebox. - There was so many, I'm saying it's so much more complex. I personally think you're saying it's easier now. I think it's-- - No, I must keep going. - No, no, no, see, you're missing my point. - Okay. - What I'm trying to say is life has gotten easier for the species of humanity as far as livability. - Okay, comfort, comfort, comfort, I gotcha, okay. I have a scale emission. - They wash you your dish. - Well, I had to call somebody, I had to do this. One, seven. - By the way, that's a long, I was high tech. - Hey, you had a call to buddy. - Put this with-- - Hello, operator, yes. - Yeah, and then-- - The phone number says one, I'm looking for five. - So there was a, the point, there was a process. That process kept your mind focused on what it needed to keep that body, that person's body alive. Nowadays, a lot of those responsibilities for the mind that they've taken away. Well, we don't need to worry about that as mine is freer. - It's freer to-- - Too stupid shit. - Exactly. You're my freer to worry about the things that aren't necessarily danger, like-- - Mine's free to serve Facebook. Instead of working. - And I think dirty, if somebody said something about me, I don't have time 'cause Joey said I have, I, whatever. Like, I got, if I don't do this, like, we're not gonna eat tonight, or we're not gonna have this tonight, or we're not gonna have, like, there was other things that are more important. Nowadays, it's, and then this is gonna tie me to what you said. Here's the cherry on top. - Yes. - Social media, technology, how easy, how, how, how news before it's even filtered is put out into like, you don't know what's real-- - You don't know if it's the truth or not, they just put out news. - So the unaware person has no shot nowadays, which is why it is to tie you what you were saying before, why mindfulness is so important. Nowadays, it's almost a necessity to be able to survive in this world. - I think there's a good point. - Agreed. - I think there's a good point. - Almost a lesson. - I like to end the show on-- - If you're not aware, I mean, you're watching just news and believing every single single news. - It's not news. - It's called news. - Well, because, yeah, they're telling it to you. - 'Cause that's out. - 'Cause that's out. - The letters and EWS are there. - Yeah. - Exactly. - But in reality, it's not news at all. It's propaganda, it's bullshit. It's opinions. I mean, don't get me wrong. There is sudden news mixed in, but a lot of it is opinion these days. That's where we went wrong. - And the unaware person has no shot. That was, for example, Richard Pryor has passed away. - Okay, I can see. - That's news. - Yeah, that's it. That's for real, he passed it out. Even this, all he passed away from a drug overdose. - No, he didn't get a heart attack. - Even that is gonna be-- - To watch it. - Yeah, yeah, okay. But the only thing you know is that his heart isn't beating anymore, so he's dead for sure. The rest is bullshit, because that's the way the world works as far as media goes. But I love what you introduced, because I don't think we've ever, ever, ever said it like that. So let me rewind you. The more in touch we are, with our basic bare necessities, caveman, the healthier our minds are. - I think they were happier. - Absolutely. - I mean, I do. - I don't even know if happy is the word. I think, again, their mind was so-- - I think it would have been wrong. - Or let's just say it is. No, it's not bad saying you're wrong. - Okay, 'cause I didn't have word happy for these. I know, I know. But what happened, you know what I meant. I know. - I know. - No, no, but I won. I wanna address it, because hold on. - Do you wanna undress it? - Yeah, I wanna-- - Easy, big guy. - And look at my hands, too. I wanna undress it, yeah. I'm just saying. - Nervous, good. - What up, PG? Don't worry about it. Put these hands down. - I have to eat an exo, I shall soon expose them. But if, think about it, this is called using the right tool for the right job. - Again, I'm not the almost the end of the word. - When you go back to caveman and what you think about, the caveman situation, I like to frame it as a caveman. 'Cause you get the visual. I don't have to tell you anything. - Yeah, in the end, it's all. - Our brain was the tool for the job. - Craz? - I know what you're gonna say, and I agree with it. - I agree with it. - The tool is the same. - Yes. - Yes. - But all the things around it are different. - And that doesn't mean the tool doesn't change. - But do we change the way we use the tool? - I think it's a change that we use the tool. I think it's you, the tool has started to use you, and not the other way around. So the carpenter is no longer swinging the hammer. The hammer is now swinging the carpenter. - Tell them the carpenter what to do, basically, right? So it's not the other way. - And so it's carpenter findin' himself doing this with a hammer? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Because he doesn't know. The way it is nowadays, if you don't have that awareness to realize what your mind is doing, it's gonna take you down rabbit hole if the rabbit hole. Again, only because that's what it's built to do. So your mind's built to, not to be anxious, it's built to protect you. But when you don't have actual things that are happening in your life that are threats, like, or there's no tigers comin' in, there's no lack of electricity, there's no lack of heat, there's no lack of air conditioning on hot days like today. There's no lack of running water. You don't have to worry about the wells running dry. You know, the Roman times, the times are roaming. - I'm here. - You're not starving. - I'm not, I'm... - What do you mean by that? - My sea cup? Don't worry, don't worry, my sea cups, you know? (laughing) We're not worried about where our next meal's comin' from. And those are all things to be very thankful for. We're talking about gratitude always, right? Very thankful for those things, absolutely. But if you don't have the awareness to realize what they're, do what those things actually are, your mind's gonna start saying, okay, so now how do I protect Henry? And it's gonna, it might do it to you even if you are aware, but at least you have it, then think up, yes, I understand my mind is trying to protect me. So if somebody says something, why am I insulted by it? But why do I feel less than? Why do I... You can see, which is why awareness to this question, why it's become a more prevalent nowadays, is because it's almost a necessity to have some sort of awareness and mindfulness skills to be able to watch your thoughts, or else you are going to be in a shitstorm, are you, like you were saying before? Are you saying the level of bullshit these days is much higher? Yes. Okay, that's for the laymen out there. That's always for the laymen. (laughing) It's not great. It's what is great bullshit out there. It's true. It's true. It'll bring a person who doesn't know that it's-- How do I make out what's what? Yes, yes, yes. Right, and your mind is gonna be like, how are I protected? See, I'll see something in the news and you take off. You see all I have to cross the set. That's fine. Yeah, I mean, it's just to me, it makes sense. And what's funny is that, so like a guy like me, like, I know this already. Yeah. There will be some sort of input that will come in a sly way and take you from the back. Same here. And like the Chinese by-balloon thing. I was gonna say two sides. No, no, no, but it applies because it's something I was afraid of Chinese by-balloon. I could even, I can jump into my mania right now. She came into, he came into, he was in a slight panic 'cause he was, I think you can probably resonate with you more than him because he's more zen. Mm-hmm. Bro, in my mind, if Chinese, you told me, Chinese, yeah, okay, Chinese by-balloon. I agree with it. Why are we not knocking it down? Why are we not, it's a business collecting intel, what? So I already got intel. I already know, you know more than the US government than I know in your mind. That's when I'm the rest is, and I'm, yeah. That's where my mind went. But you know what they'll tell you is that you don't have all the information. Right. That's the other level of bullshit they give you. Right. You wanna know why you don't know anything? We didn't tell you everything. You're so sigh out, it's crazy, it's so crazy. But anyway, funny though, what you were talking about, I argue, not argue, but I have discussions with some of my friends, Mark, who have completely turned off that didn't watch the news because it sets them so much and they're like, how do you still watch it? I've listened to it all the time. But here's the thing is that I already know most of the stuff they're telling me is a good possibility, it's not true. So I take it as if it's a, to me, entertainment. It is, to me, politics is entertainment. There are people who go to college and study that shit. But for me, listening to the tactics of how people try to get at each other and go around each other, pretty entertaining to me. So you've got to look at it in that sense and not as, oh my God, everything they say the world is ending because they keep on telling you a lot of that so you will turn on the news and watch more. - I have another take. You read your own book, and it's just-- - No, so there was, what you were saying before about like suffering and you were saying how why awakening is, why people are more awakened nowadays, why it's more prevalent. I was just reading like a chapter in my book where it's exactly what I said before, that it was a choice, the suffering was a choice. I just, I was reading the chapter before we started the show, so I just wanted to look up real quick at what I was doing, I'm sorry, I don't mean to. I was listening, I just wanted to find it in my book 'cause I need to reference it. - My take is kind of nuanced in the sense that because I know about mindfulness and because I also study persuasion and the Scott Adams situation of how subjective realities and your ability to affect your realities. I watch the news with another filter too. So like I watch it to pick out the manipulation tactics. And so when you see it, it pisses me off because for the sheep that are thinking that they're watching something that is, and I get triggered for the rest of us. You know what I'm saying? - 'Cause they're-- - Why? - And I know exactly what you're talking about. - Because I do that with people. - It's a tactic, it's a technique, you know? And it's a technique that you can clearly point out. Like you could clearly look for-- - Only to the person that was willing to hear. - But, to me an example. - Yeah, something ridiculous, okay? And the collars are only one. - Redec? - Only one. - So like, and please, nobody gets triggered. Just let me change my story, okay? But if you're, it'll say, if someone else hears me, I talk to him. - I can't talk to him. - I won't get triggered. (laughing) - I can't talk to him. I'm not getting triggered, you know? What I said like this, because when you do this, the camera picks it up. - Oh, so it's that? - That, that. - Gotcha. - That was a good cover, girl. - Oh shit, yeah. - He's doing that on one trick. So you brought on watching it. - Yeah, yeah. Okay, so, you know, you're watching the 2020 election, and you're like, okay, Biden is not. - 2024. - 2020. - Oh, I'm sorry. - Biden is not all there. - He's not all there. - But, now you look back and you're okay, it was healthy. - Healthier. - And now, now you saw the debate, you saw what happened. - Right. - And now you see, he's completely bad. - But, up until the day of the debate, if you watch the news, wait, certain news. - Which is probably 90% of the news is out there. - Yeah, I don't know which, this is the example I want to give you. - Right up to the day before, and probably even hours before the debate. Let me tell you something, everybody can slip. - This is what the pundits were saying. - Yeah. - Everybody can slip, and let me tell you, behind closed doors, that guy's the latest. He's focused yet. - He's energetic on a fact, I can't even give you up. - Did you notice that all the channels, the people were saying the same words, focused as a laser, right? Engaging all the same words they were using. It's part of the example. I gave you a hardcore example of when I watch the news, I can see manipulation tactics, and it hurts. But do you see what they're doing, right? No, can I fix all of them? Because I'm, they're telling you gun, it hurts from my people. You know what I mean? The rest of us, I don't believe your eyes. - Right, so what I think what you're trying to say is, and I agree with you, because I'm the same way. When I see somebody who's fallen prey to a tactic of mental warfare, manipulation. Yes, it also is that part of me, that when you say it gets triggered, it becomes very heightened and aware that this is actually happening. And at that point, there is a choice to make. Can I possibly get involved to correct this, or can I not? So if it's like something on the news, I don't engage that even feeling if it was to pop up anymore, because there's nothing that I could physically do in this moment right now to correct that. If it is happening in front of me with somebody I know, and I see somebody, let's just say quote-unquote trying to guess like somebody, or manipulate them, and I see it, I have a choice. Can I quietly interject? Can I say something to bring awareness and light to what's happening? Maybe I can, maybe I can't. I would love to be able to snap my fingers and say everybody pay attention to what's happening around us. It's not a, that's a very hard thing to accomplish. But what we can do is do what we're doing here, and get the word out to people, try to teach people, try to show people, try to enlighten people to how this whole thing works, even getting back to what we were talking about when the show started, and why suffering is almost necessary, but it's a choice that you need to understand that you're making, and the only way you get to make that choice is if you have awareness, if you have any kind of presence, you don't have to say presence of mind, so you have presence of your mind, that you understand what your mind's doing, and back to what Anthony was saying before, to why it's happening more nowadays, it's because I think life is just taking such, it's become so much more easier to navigate physical, practical life, like things, cell phones, emails, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, your mind has more time to worry about, or try to, concern itself with things that it needs to think and believe that it has to have to protect and hit it, right? And it could be things that have some merit, right? Financial has some merit, but at the end of the day, is it worth all of that energy that your mind wants to invest in it, to worry about it, to be concerned about it, to anguish about it, and now, how many more adjectives will I have to use until the person goes, wow, the situation is what it is, but am I choosing to go down that hole with it, or am I gonna choose to be able to watch it, take a step back and allow things to happen as they are, and then navigate through it, right? And I think that's where the sweet spot is, and all of this is, like, you say, how do you get through something, then? Like, how do I get out of a horrible situation? Sometimes you can't. So now, if you're in a horrible situation, and there is no doubt, there is no doubt. Look, take Jesus out of everything it's about. We're talking about Jesus, we're on the cross, right? And this hasn't done a religion, but, okay, he had no doubt. His out was, he had to do it, he had to do what he believed because Father was telling him to do, and the man got crucified, he didn't, and now, yes, did he rise from dead? That's the whole religion, yes, that's great. And all that. But in that moment, he had no doubt. He had to go through one of the worst things imaginable for anybody living in those days, right? Respection. - Or very married. - Or getting married to joke. - Joke. - I didn't say that. Erica, that was a minute. We just needed some little bit, really. So that cross that you're gonna carry, whatever it might be like, sometimes you need to carry it to understand what life is really about. And to know, I could, I might not be able to take this cross off, but I don't have to carry the full weight of it. - Yeah. - Completely, yeah. - You know what I'm trying to say? I could even make it so that, it's quite enjoyable carrying this cross. - You can reframe it. - Yeah. - But that's the beauty of it. So like, people nowadays are really into mental health because the crisis has exploded for the reason that we have, life has gotten so simple to exist in, that we have to create other issues and problems in order to, our mind creates all these other issues because that's what it's gonna do. It needs to figure out how do I protect my people? - Very good, yeah. - Yeah, how do I protect my people? So I have to create a problem. So this part, I don't have to worry about water and heat and fire or this anymore. I need to worry about my social status, my financial status, my gender status, whatever. - Right, right. - My mind has to create issues. And if you have no awareness, those issues become your subjective reality. - Think about this. I could, obviously neither of us were there, but back in the caveman days, it was collaboration. If you don't collaborate, it's at your peril. - And the group has a peril, right? - Yeah, so the tribe. - So we collaborate. - Sure. - You're like, oh, John, I've seen you hunt. You're a good hunter. You know what? You hunt, I mean, and you know I can build. So I build, I'll build houses and you hunt and Anthony's fucking great book. And you don't, it's the same thing in jail, everybody. (laughs) - Everybody say that. - Think about it. You kind of reduce life to a basic, just like kind of where that was, it's basic. The more basic you get, the more in tune you get. But think about it, so back then, you didn't have these trinkets, commodities. So the people would actually work in some unison to, let's say, to advance the tribe, advance the group, the family, whatever it is, your village. Today, in every single work environment, the majority of people can't get along, majority of people talking shit about each other, behind their bags, how could I step on your head to get above you? - What do you think that is? I can tell you why I think. - The conditions change. - Yeah, because back in the cave land days, if you didn't work together, something was gonna fucking eat you. - That's what I'm saying. - These days, if you don't get along, it doesn't matter. If you come back into work tomorrow morning, you get your paycheck same day, same time. That's, you know, there's no life in death situation. It degrades our relationships, it degrades how we think. So our thought processes are completely affected. So we're at work, subconscious is the thing, right? We're at work, we're getting media, you know, even driving to work, we're listening to crap. And it just can't be that we're gonna go through this life experience without some sort of mindfulness, without some sort of awareness, because, I mean, once you taste it, you can't go back. You can't go back and say, "No, no, I want to put the blindfold back on." No, it's the most, like the matrix. - So, oh, it's just a gonna say thing. Like, when once it's in my packet. - That's it, well, you can't go back. - So we have to go chase that sheep that we have to. You know, we were talking about the reference. - Yeah, leave one sheep to leave the land on the hill to go find it, you know. - And we decided to join the club of Shepherds, yeah. - And I think that's what we're doing here. - And go find sheep, go find those loins, and I think it's, unfortunately, I wish it was 99 on one. I think it's more like the other way now. Nowadays, I think there's one that's on the hill, and we got to go find the 99 that is still lost. - He's not weak, but in general, we have to-- - But don't forget, yeah, that was on a much more, he was saying it on a much smaller scale, but in reality, it's talking about people in society and around the world that are lost, you know? - Yeah, and the issue is that, if you talk to the average person, there's gonna be some that tells you, I know, I'm not, like, no, it's, you know, and it's gonna be something that goes, what are you talking about? Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, what's really in reality? What, get out of here? Because the life that they live, and everything that they do, and the things that happen to them, that's life. That's their, that's their air life. That's their interpretation of what they believe. There's nothing else. Life is life. - That's life. - No, it's like, certain situations are what they are. Practical situations, we didn't say that, but that doesn't mean that your interpretation of what life is to change, which is why when we talk about, like, people who identify as being something, that puts you in a box, right? That puts you, like, I am a, and this is what, I mean, this gets very spiritual, but this is why I say things like, I say, like, and Eckhart Tolle says this, philosopher, I am done. I am. - I play the role of, I play the role of spiritual teacher, I play the role of life coach, I play the role of contractor, of mother, of father, brother, or sister, friend, I play those roles in life. Those are roles they take on, because they're necessary for practical life, the necessary to live and exist. But I am, and if you could actually rival, my God, probably everybody, it's I am, right? I am, yeah, I am, it's well known, actually, in the Bible, more than me, but it means I am. - It means it. - Existing, every, you know, that's it. That's it, I am. - I am here, that's it. - That message is lost, because we live in a world, we've lived in a world for centuries now, where I am something, I am this, I am that, and now I think it's come to a precipice, right? Where we're at that point where, like you were saying before, why is it such a big thing now with these mental health crisis? Why is it so, why is mindfulness taking grip all of a sudden needed force? - Needed more. - And when it's, we really gonna say that? - Yeah. - This is a pretty impressive thing. - Yeah. - I'm watching. - Double jinx. - Double jinx. - Oh, you know, I was very impressed that I said the words that you followed up with the same words, oh, holy cow, yeah. - Something's rubbing ass over here. - I was in, every, usually every word I say, they'll be like, no, it's really, and you're like, okay, this one was correct. - We're moving along. - Yes, we'll get it somewhere. - Yes, no, he's true, that's right. He's true, he's right, that's true, he's right. Yes. - Absolutely, yeah. - So, I mean, I don't know. - I don't also don't beat the dead horse, but yeah. I mean, I agree with everything. - No, I mean, I don't want to keep on repeating. - Yeah, I think honestly what we're doing is now, we're repeating the same things, just in different examples of it. - That's at the shallows, yeah. - Okay, well, we'll then go with yours and read it. - I can't, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, what do you mean? - No, I was, yeah, I was just gonna say, no, that was it. I didn't want to beat a dead horse about, you know, about how today's society, how much more it requires mental health, you know, where it just is. - Well, it's not, it's not beating the dead horse, it's, and then I get what you're saying, like we don't want to sound repetitive about it. - That's what I meant. - But, but if you think about all the things that there's been had to do back in the day, we kind of have the same things to do now, and then some cars, registration, and there's just so many, I'm saying is this. - Well, Troy, all these days, if you want to get some way, you're trying to eat choices, you want to go on a flight, you got to have a passport. - So, those little things, they just, instead of caveman food, there's so many levels of things that we're talking about. - Which doesn't worry about each other, which is not to worry about, but they're in our way, sort of. I like that. - I like that, I like it a lot. - Oh, stop, yes, yes, you got to come out correctly. - You're, I think you're 110% right on spot on with that. - That's Florida, but I'm saying, say apples to apples. So you can't compare the 2024 guy to a 1942 guy. - You're right. - Because the 1942 guy didn't have the set of conditions. - You're right. - I don't think that's what made them the greatest generation, though, they quoted the greatest generation with so many people answered the call to service. - I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you another. - But, I'm sorry, I don't mean it's a gentleman. But there is one thing I want to say, and actually probably said this, I should have said this earlier in the show, in Western civilization. - Yes, yeah, I guess. - In Western civilization, mindfulness was maybe not big here. - But it's been big here, yes. - You go to where this, where it was born, right? Spirituality was born. Was that on this continent? Was that on the Atlantic? Was that on this side of the Atlantic? On the other side of the Atlantic, right? Asia, go to even to like places of Jesus's birth, where that, where the prophets, where all that kind of philosophical thinking really started to take forming Greece in place. It wasn't here. So that's always been a foothold there. It just, no, no, but this cut, but this, we've said this before in the show, the Western civilization is just now realizing that what they thought was the way to live life is a burnout, is a major, major, born way. They have all the little things that we have, cause, insurance, but their life is so much. - He brought up a good point, yeah? He brought up a very good point before. - You know what I mean, their lives, the way they approach it is different than the way we do it, where we're anxious and anxiety, everything is a time check over there. They don't do that. - They're one of the happiest countries. - They're one of the happiest countries. - Oh my God. - General, you know, one of the other largest countries that deal with like anxiety? Cause we'll see other English speaking country in the world. - And they're very much like us. - They're very much like us. - Anxiety is a Canada. - Obsessive, compulsive disorder has a huge, I mean, not to say it sounded, it's all over the world. - All over the world, maybe it's not very diagnosed. I don't know. - People, I think it's just the mentalities different on the places here. It's such a go, go, go, go, go. And this virus that we have, oh my God, I'm trying to say that word, but this infection of the way we live our lives here is starting to spread to other parts of the world. So in the Far East, we're mindfulness spirituality, where all these things were born and it's where they have their roots, it's always been there. It's always been there. It's always been there. Now, I mean, I'm sure it's even taking this mama technology life moving as quickly as it does. Yeah, even in other parts of the world, you know, I'm 100% sure that people are suffering everywhere. But here, it's happening, I think, on an exponential level, just because we don't have the background to understand how the mind works that we do, I'm a philosophical, neurological point of view. Yes, we understand that there, but we don't understand it from a, or say from a spiritual point of view, spiritual, but we can act mindfulness, awareness, combination, because although what you could consider as spiritual, there is a neurological component to it. Yes, well, scientists are now, that's where act is, right? How they give words to show how the mind works, to frame it a certain way for people to understand it better. Now, I am used to work 10,000, you know, 5,000, whatever, 6,000, 8,000 years ago. I am able to see what that meant. Like, Far East, they need to be able to see what that meant. I'm here, you say, I am, you know, you are what? We hear it's all about, you are what? I am what? You get to finish your sentence, no. Think about it a little more deeper. I am, meaning I am trusting you. Yeah, 'cause I am, we are, we all are the same thing. We are an extension, we are nothing more than an extension. We are religious. I am nothing more than an extension of God, right? Jesus was an extension of God, let's just say. Again, another perfect parallel of the two. Yeah, and I am not, I am not that consciousness. I'm not, I'm not it, I'm living in this world. But I'm an extension of it. So I'm an extension, I'm the, the echo tolls at the time, because I am the universe expressing itself through me, right? So it's the universe the way you see of experiencing life through me, I'm an extension of it. So we are, we're all extensions on this greater conversation. I say something correct, and see if you agree with me. Would you say Jesus was one of the first mindful teachers probably that he exists? I think most spiritual teachers will say that he was not, 'cause I feel like everything he was, read Jesus says. Yeah, every much. I've always said that though. A different form of the ways, you know. I've always said that. I've always been able to describe mindful. JC, man. To keep it now that I'm JC the man. The story of Jesus, what? The story of Jesus, yes, I mean less. And that's true, he has a point, right? He has stories. You know, I had to come to my cousin say that. I'm gonna address that. Let me put you, it's twice that you said it on Monday. No, but he said the same thing to me once. He goes, everything's a story though. How do you know that's true? How do you know, I'm like, you're exactly right. There is, you know nothing is true unless you've seen it with your own eyes, and probably only half of that. So then comes something called state. And to me, there's state, but also I love the archeology of it, and the artifacts, and you know, where the places they said happened in the Bible. And I love watching the shows when they go there, and they're still, you know, soldering the more that they find millions, where they call those sodium balls that rain down. On the time they're still embedded in the dirt, I've watched them dig it out. It's crazy. There's so many parallels that pull you into showing, there's a good book that I'm reading at home. I'd love to give it to you. Is it a good book? No, it's a book, and somebody gave it to me, and I haven't finished reading yet, but it's very fascinating. It's about this guy who's an atheist, right? Doesn't believe in God. Oh, all right. What are you saying? It winds up his married old girl, and he's an author and a researcher, and he married this girl who happens to be a devout person, right? And he went out to set out to prove to her that Jesus didn't exist, and all this stuff, the Bible was nonsense. And in his research, and in his book, he tells you how it started off in all the research he did for him to sack that. There was no doubt in his mind that he did exist, and from his research, and this guy was a big time researcher, I've got to give you the book, because somebody else just mentioned it on the podcast, believe it or not, the guy was comedian, and he says he's reading this book, he goes, I've got to tell you, he goes, I don't think anything of it, but the way this guy does his research and the interviews of people, and form the timeline of when the books were most likely written and everything, it was amazing. It was amazing. I get the book at home, and I get the title for you. I mean, his comedians are smart people for the most part. No, it just will happen to be another human being that was reading the book that I was interested in, and kind of caught him too, because a person who gave it to me said the same thing, because I was all offense too, and they're like, listen, nobody's telling you what to believe, but read this book, and it's an old book. I think it's got to be a couple, maybe 60 years old, or something, but this guy did this research, and it's unbelievable how he came to the conclusion of the existence of Jesus trying to prove, and he's an atheist, trying to prove his wife was wrong. I just thought it was fascinating. - Yeah, yeah, and by the case for the rice, I think it's called, so don't let my commentary make you-- - No, not at all, but I got into it. I got into it with my cousin Paul, because it's like, well, it's just a story. And I turned around and I said, well, everything is just a story. The things I tell you about my life, just a story. Everything is a story, and then faith comes into play, and to me, the other part of faith is, I like the history, archaeology. When you think about it, it was only 2,000 years ago. Moses was about 3,500 years ago. When Jesus walked the earth, the pyramids were already existed. - The aliens that already created them? - They already did it, yeah. Well, they used all the Jews to build a pyramid. Oh, they were dull at them, but in all honesty, well, honestly, yeah, that's probably what happened. But anyway, and you know, aliens? - We could go out the aliens. - We could go left turn, yeah, the Jews, Jewish aliens. - Okay. - Well, the Jews were slaves in Egypt. What do you think? - Yeah, well, they're saying that they... - Anyway, some people say aliens, because like, how the hell did they lift those things? - Yeah. - They still, they think they know how they did it, but I don't think they have scientific proof about how they think those blocks in place and make chambers in this pyramid. It's, ideologically, it's mind blowing. How they build these things, yeah? No, it's... You might think only an advanced life can do that, 'cause I gotta tell you, they were saying, like, even if we tried to build that now with the cranes we had, it would take a very long time. - Yeah, I mean, think about it. If you're telling me that those structures are there in more than 2,000 years, they're, oh, yeah. How do I tell you? - God, hey, what the hell is impossible? So if it doesn't fit in our modern minds, what I'm saying is 2,000 years ago, meaning 2,000 years ago is not very long ago. For a story, when we know stories so much further back. - A lot of happy, you know, 2,000 years? - Yeah, a lot has happened. - Yeah, dude, do you realize soon the decade of the 1900s or 2000s that we're living now will soon be a blip, like, probably in a history book somewhere, and they're gonna talk about the decade of the 2000s. - We're lucky enough. - Multibus and, you know, a lot of fighting and there was riots, there's gonna probably be, like, a paragraph in somebody's history book. - Yeah, but that's just like the year 100. - Is anybody talking about the year 100, yeah, though? - No, 'cause it's not, you know what I mean? - That's what I mean. Once you get past a certain point of history, I don't think many people remember the details. - You could be living in the '70s and go, "Man, remember the black and white '20s?" Well, now we're in 2020 as in the '80s, '70s, we could look, "Well, that part." - No, that's in '50s. - At least, you know, in 1920, when they were living, it was now, you know, when you're living today, it's still now. - That's right. - No moment ever exists, but this one right now. - That's right. - That's it. - So time is nothing more than perception. - What is, what is, what's our most valuable commodity, then? You just said-- - Time, time. - Yes, time. - Everyone's-- - And time? - Let anyone kid you, bro. - There is, there is a prat. - You only clock one and out? - It's your time. That's it. There's nothing else. - Yeah, yeah, I mean, time won't be, yeah. - Time is your prat, you're prat, you're prat. - Your prat is the time you spend, you'll never get a chance to go back and go-- - No. - I spent another hour doing that as something. - You're a prat, you're a prat, you're a prat, yeah. You're a practical time. - You know what the biggest debt that you've read is from a nurse who worked at, what do they call those, facilities where people go to-- - Oh, I'm asking. - Well, I'm asking. - Hospice. - Hospice. - I watched it. You know, she said that one of the number one regrets are, I wish I didn't work so much. - Oh, really? - I spent more time with my family. - I could see that. - Well, because while you're working, it seems like being necessary thing to do. And then when you're done, you're like, wow, I wasted a lot of time. - What's missing there? - What's missing there? - What's missing there? - That lady's-- - What's missing? - Why do you think she even has that regret? - Why do you think she has that regret? I don't know if she has that regret. She said that that was the-- - One thing, she said that, well, you know, she's out there at bed a lot of these people I thought. And then she says, one of them, no more. - Oh, well, why did she announce all these people? - Yes, they have no people. - Is there a way does she think? - Yeah, I don't know. - Well, I'm sorry. Why do you think that's the regret that most people have? 'Cause that's what most people do. - Because you don't, most people who are unconscious their whole lives don't have that conscious moment of awareness until right before death. Right before death, most people do become conscious of the thinking mind. They don't see the see, you know, they only see you there. So imagine, imagine learning how to see the field now. - That's a good point. - That's a good point. - That's negative people pull together is right at the end. - This is, this is, this is one, and this is why. And I think just, well, but this has been said by so many spiritual teachers, this is why it's so important to have this, this sooner, the better, this skill, this practicing your life. 'Cause you're able to appreciate things when they're happening, not after they happen. So I make it a point when something was going on, to stop in the middle of it, pull myself back, and just watch things happen. And not, and not have my mind, if my mind wants to have a conversation, I let it have a conversation. I just watch. - You know what I feel like? - And you feel like you're absolutely present when you're doing that, like I am here. - You gotta come up with, that's what you feel. You feel real like, you know, you could pull back a little bit, let your mind really just go blank, you know? - That's where Eckhart told us, he goes, I could put anybody in a spa, and they will be zen. He goes, I want you to, he goes, the key isn't being zen when you're surrounded by silence. The key to being, why do you use the word zen? He says, mindful, aware, conscious, is do it in the middle of chaos. When you're in chaos, and you keep the fill, it does. Of course, it does, but no, watch this. It is a practice. It's not, it takes practice, it is a practice. I practice daily, do I get better at it? I don't know if you get better at it, it's just, you're wearing this rose where you just, you watch better. I don't think it's something you get better at. - Don't put an adjective in it. - No, don't put that, I think it's just something that you experience, and as you experience it more and more, it just grows more and more, I guess, or just, you know. - I wouldn't, 'cause we're running out of time, and I did wanna just mention this. - Yeah, yeah. - Something happened to me. - We're hearing about how. - Something happened to me, I think it was Saturday, just a few days ago. - You're running out of time? - We were just talking about time, that's what. - While it was happening, I noticed it was happening, and I let it go, let me explain. - Please. - You ever, you ever just let your mind, it's being let it go, look, yeah, that might go. - Just let your mind, you should let your mind go. In other words, let it run. - Let it run. - Let your car engine, don't direct the movie. - No. - And don't interrupt, and don't be, don't be the movie. Be the camera, watching it happen. - Has that ever happened to you? - Sure. - All right, so I found myself to happen to me on Saturday, and I'm driving, and all of a sudden, I'm having all you were driving it happen? - Yeah, well, but I didn't notice, it had already been in my mind, you know what I mean? And I'm getting an overwhelming sensation of just joy. Like straight up, that's great. - Yeah, so like straight up good vibes. - Yeah. - And good thoughts. And it was like a series of just streams, just good thoughts. And until I notice, like, whoa, then I notice, 'cause I'm aware of what I'm aware of. And also I'm like, do you like it? Thoughts flowing around, don't interrupt, shut up. Literally, that's what I said, and I kept going. That lasted up until I got to where I was getting traffic. And then-- (laughing) Yeah, yeah, then my mind went angry. - That's not, that's not, I had to work. That was the life of it, that I had to do some work. So literally, as I was approaching where I had to go, now I'm paying attention to the street side. So you kinda, yeah, you lose that, you know, there's a-- - Well, because those streams are coming and you're, so what happened is, your body was on autopilot driving the car in Zola. You were able to pay attention to what was happening in your mind, right? So you were unconscious until you became aware of those thoughts. And you became aware of those thoughts. You actually realized what was going on, and then you made a choice to not interrupt it. And you just let it run again. And then when something more prevalent came up, like, I need to get off, now your mind, all of a sudden kinda thrust you back up, Henry on me, because we're turning off, and you break out of it. - So yeah, no, I mean, I've had it where, not when I was driving, I've had it where I'm just sitting somewhere, and I just start watching, watching and watching. - It wasn't weird. - Yeah, for me, I don't know if it was good, good doors or mixed doors, we just thought-- - Super great. - That's good, I can't tell you one of 'em. But I just remember being, wow, it's all good stuff. It's all good stuff, yeah. - Price in the mind does that. - It's nice when it does that. But could it have been, could I have done something to precursor you that? - It's possible. - So like, I find myself at times that, I mean, I could just, I'll find it for you. - Was it music? - Yeah. So I play this-- - A lot of current set, the books. - Zen music, like-- - Praise. - And it's, you know, the music that play your mind, your mind response, yeah, your mind response to it. Well, that-- - And I know you like that, I know that stuff. - Even that's too hardcore. - Oh, really? - Like, you talking like, sure, you're going for a massage. You're going for a massage. - Right, that background massage. - I like that, yeah. I'll play it in the car and I would just let that penetrate. - Penetrate. - And I, so it is, it is, it's a calming, it's a very calming sound. I'm sure it has an effect on what I'm doing, this, you know, logical pay attention. I like to give a helpful pointer. - That's a good one, I like that music. - It's like the Steve Harvey one is super great, you know. I don't dial this, that's why this is the Eckhart Tolle when I work out. - I don't gotta go to work. I get to go to work. - By the way, another devout Christian, do you see the minds, you know, how you see these people who are Christians and all full might. I just see that, yeah, again. - I would not make sure they all are, but they're looking for it, but I don't even know who is it. - I love it, I think it's good. - Which is good, honestly. - You're green, it's at this point, it's not even parallel, it's straight up overlap. - Yeah. - Like, I can see it, dude. Like, I don't think a lot might be a stretch, I think, no? God, it's like, because I think parallel means they're just, they're both running the same direction. They're both running in the same direction, but they still, but the roads are still a little bit different, but they're running, they're all here. So, we're all going towards this one consciousness. I'm on the Christian road, I'm on the spiritual road, I'm on the Joseph and the Meditative road. They're all going towards the same thing, which is what flavor resonates with me, and we've had this conversation, right? The word God resonates with me more than the word universe. - Mm-hmm. - The word God resonates. - That's not a religious thing for me, for me. I just, the word God resonates more for me. And even I said, Eckhart told when he's speaking, oh, flip-flop, God, universe, God, universe, to show they are what, it's one and the same, and when you said before about faith, when anything you said before about having faith. So, for me, and you said, it's a story, this is where I kind of, I'll bring both of those worlds together, my faith is not meeting it or believing it, that it is a story. I don't need this story. The story's great, it's fun, like you said, right? You enjoy that part of it. I don't need the story to have faith. My faith isn't in what the Bible says. My faith is, there is something greater than me. I don't know what it is. I am not meant to know what it is, but I feel it. I respect it. I love it. I feel like I can, without talking to it, I can communicate in one way or another with it through energy, right? I just, I can feel when I'm not alone, right? I can feel when there's, like I've had instances I've told you, like I've said something and then two minutes later something happens. Like I ask a question and it doesn't always happen, but I get a response. I don't know where that response came from. I don't need to know. My faith isn't in a name, a word, a book, a title. My faith isn't something that I can't explain, but yet I know I love. You know faith is, and I know that it loves me on some level. Can I give you a good example? 'Cause I gave it to John on Jim today. What are you breathing right now? Here. How do you know? It's not? How do you know you're breathing in? That's what it's called. How do you know what you're taking into your body? Yeah. Somebody told you it was called air, right? It was a story that somebody says. It's called oxygen. It could be something else, but it's not something you could. Can you see, can you see the air? Can you touch it? Smell it. If I do this fast, but you know what I'm, but you believe it's there, am I right? That's kind of like the same thing. You can't see it, you can't touch it. You don't have a history of it. Somebody told you about air. I mean, that's what you want to explain it. Here's the sticky point. Most people need to have that definitive answer. The definitive, it's there. And you know how I know it's there? The story tells me it's there. That's why I say you want to know what real faith is? Yeah, for me, for real faith is, that's why I say I don't need the story to know it's real. Don't say another word. Do you know what Jesus said to Thomas after he resurrected? You know what they called, you know. You know what we fucking, (laughing) I told you I could do it. Well, that broke the internet. Congratulations, that was fantastic. No, I love that. That's gonna be a real. I may have to use that, and I should, by the way, that's gonna be wrong. I should never pull that out. By the way, that will be, you're gonna get the point, but that will be a real. You know what Jesus said to Thomas? You owe me five bucks, click. That was fantastic. But you know why they called him doubting Thomas, right? Because when Jesus came over to me, he goes, I can't believe it, right? And then Jesus showed him the holes in his chest. And he said, blessed are the ones who don't see and believes. Makes a, that's fake. That's what it is. You know, honestly, that's a prime example, right? That's great. Well, that's why I stopped it, because I was like, whoa, this is like perfect. So, for our religious folk out there, that is a prime example of faith. I don't need to see to believe. I don't need the story to believe. I just believe, it's like, and I know where, I'm on a little bit of a Jesus kick right now because I'm watching the show and I'm finding it. And I'm finding it so enticing. There's, his biggest thing in the show, and this is another major parallel, people he, well, the story as a story is about, people he healed had faith in him without knowing who he was. That was the big thing. I heard a story of this man who did this, and they would cry, "Please save me." They would try to just touch him, and he would, 'cause it was one where a lady was bleeding. All she did was touch him, and he stopped. - I was in tears, that was green. - And he said, "You touched me." It was a woman who had some... - She's been bleeding for... - She's been bleeding for nine years. Here's some sort of obviously female issue. And back then, you were... - I was there to believe that. - You were bleeding, you were bleeding. You were unclean, and she heard of him, and they tried, the apostles tried to get her to him. She ran through a crowd, just touched him like this. Fell down on the floor. He knew right away. He felt the power, he said, "Go through him." - He was punched, touched me, and the apostles go. - You're surrounded by a lot of people here. - No, exactly, we really made the awesome touch, and he kinda gave a face, 'cause he knew what he was doing in the show, which is great. But then he looked, when the girl said, "It was me, "I'm sorry, I just had to touch you, "because I know you could heal me." - I knew I'd be healed. - I knew I'd be healed, he goes, "Your faith, "without knowing me, your faith that I could heal you, "basis what healers." He goes, "What healers, what makes me happy?" So, it's a faith of, and again, I know it's a religious kind of, it's because they're fresh in my mind, these examples, but that's a great example of, 'cause it's-- - It's a faith. - It's a faith. - If you have faith in, like, my faith is actually, it's something greater than me, right? For me, it's mindfulness. It's-- - It's just flickering. Is there anything okay? - Yeah, it's the amount of kick up. There's heat. - No, no, no, no. - What do you think? What a coincidence? - Yeah, keep talking. (laughing) - Keep going, guys. - If you have faith in something greater than yourself, but you don't need proof that it exists, I believe that it even, whatever, like I said, for me, it's a spirituality, it's a conscious, it's a oneness, whatever it is. - It doesn't hurt you. - When they ask you that-- - It's hard, man. - It makes me feel-- - What doesn't hurt? - And you're like, "That's great." - Yeah, for me, it makes me feel great. Like, that mindfulness doesn't make you feel-- - There's no, I see no negativity in believing in a faith based in forgiveness. End of story. - I don't care what faith it is. I don't care what religion it is. - I agree. - But if it's based in forgiveness and healing, then that's a good thing. So there's, you know, you get people, "Oh, I hate Jews, I hate Christians." I, "What?" It makes them feel good. Who gives a shit? - What makes somebody feel-- If you feel good and what you believe in, and it gives you that energy that you need to do well in life, God bless you, man, do it. I don't care what religion it is, I don't care what faith it is, but it's gotta be based in good girls, and it's gotta be unlike some religions that are not. But they're, most of them are based on faith, and forgiveness, healing, and that's what it's all about, and I think that's my personal opinion. So I don't want you to think that, like, we're trying to push something at all, it's just that I personally believe anything based, whether it be mindfulness or anything, based in forgiveness and understanding and awareness. Who can put that? And if you do, you're a jerk. Well, so I don't care. - You're a jerk. - End of story. Move along, man, I got you out. That's it. But if you could just, if somebody happy with somebody that goes, if that's what you like, man, and that's what makes you feel good, then do it. - Then do it, end of story. - Yeah, first of all, you the poo poo, anybody's good. - That's why people who need even proof, well, how does mindfulness, how do you know the exactest this exists? How do you know this universal power exists? I don't need to, if I need to prove that to you, then your father, your father behind, then you really, I would like to say that you are. - Look into it. - Look into mindfulness. - Look into Christianity. Those things are good things. - And it doesn't mean things will go great. So shitty things happen to you. One way or the other in life, that's just said, right? That's the key point. And you know me, I always like to play that that was at preface, that this does not mean shitty things don't happen to you in life. Whether it's God, or Jesus, or Yahweh, or Buddha, or you name it, whatever you want, whatever it is. But is it about that name? Are you, do you have faith in an identity, or do you have faith in something that has an identity? That's why I love the words I am. And when you say that, and if you really feel, if you really kind of act yourself in saying things like I am, everything else becomes noise underneath. And you're like, I'm connected to something. And again, I would love to tell you what it is. I'd love to be here and be able to actually descriptive the right-of-the-art words, what it is, no spiritual teacher can do it, nobody can do it. Everybody who says they try to says, there's no words that I can explain what we're talking about. But if you pay attention, you can feel it. - There was Mel Gibson, who said that to Rob Lowe, by the way. When we was, when Rob Lowe, when we said that. - Yeah, when Rob Lowe hit his lowest, there was Mel Gibson, who actually is a devout Christian, but obviously knows about mindfulness. And he said, if you want to start the deal, he goes get yourself into some kind of faith-based religion. And he said, any religion that is based in forgiveness, he goes, and you'll be able to forgive yourself and forgive others. That's what it's all, 'cause you know, forgiving somebody is what makes you feel better. It's up to them to accept it or not. - And then it's your choice. Do you wanna buy into everything else about it? It's up to you. If you wanna, if you wanna, if you wanna, the traditions and the stories, that's great. For me, it's, I guess it's always been about this one thing, and that it's a feeling, a one, but yeah, we'll tie it all together, you know? - I think it just saw the trial, which really does tie it together. - Oh, it talks about it together. - So that's where today's topic of suffering originally started from, and it was a plight that of the story of the show, and how I think it's an important thing for people to experience if they want to truly awaken, but they need to be aware that they are suffering and realize they're choosing to suffer the situation they're in, instead of looking to rise above it, transcend it, and be like, "This is happening to me, but this is not what I am." - But it doesn't make it better, but it makes, it anchors you with something that can't be, can't be shaken. It can't be, it's a still water that never gets rough. - Right, and when you're in the middle of that, that deal isn't that annoying and that doff. - I think we'll lose it that way. - We don't answer this, but when you're in the middle of that, what John just said sounds like gibberish, like what do you mean, make a choice? Who decides they want to be miserable? And believe me, 'cause it was so close to what happened with me, believe me, that is what comes up with the mic, 'cause you don't know what do you mean? The choice of being miserable or not, I don't want to be miserable, but how do I make the choice cannot be? That's where the practice comes in and the grid. Christianity and John really brought it together to me, and that's why I saw those parallels in it. And for me, me, it was the answer. - For somebody else it's different, you know? - Yeah. - But I found it works to me. - I don't think it does work. And I think it does, too. I think it would work to most people. - Either road works. - Independent. - Independently. - To greet each other. - But 100%. - If you have the ability, that's on a boat. When you got both, man, that is-- - Well, if you see both, you're already well on the path. - Yes. - If you see both. If I could see the similarities in your path, in my path, they were heading the same direction, just you call it one thing, I call it another, but we're still connected to something greater than. Then, okay, then, fine, yeah, you're on the right path, bro, you're on the right path. Now, that path might have side treats, you want to get a little fawn on, that's up to you. I mean, you know, but yeah, no. So you said before that they overlap, that's what I was trying to say, they don't overlap. I just think that they are-- - I guess there's certain places with them. - They can overlap and in certain places, yeah. - Because mindfulness isn't religion, you know? It's not a religion. - To me, they both take you to the same place. - Yeah. - And it's just a matter of, well, which one do you-- As long as you are on one or the other, you're gonna be better off. - Oh, exactly. - Not be on it. - Another route, you know? The other route, which is, you know, the-- - That's the A-life, if you're an atheist, and you believe in nothing, just sheep that straight. - You know, and that's what I'm saying is like, there's a lot of straight sheep that their world is their world. Bro, don't get ready. God, God, yeah, God, yeah. Elizabeth Bro, let me tell you this, Anthony, if there was a God, I wouldn't be in this fucking position. - That's an unconscious person. - How do you know? (laughing) - That's an unconscious person, you know. You could be in a long, worse position. (laughing) - And then the mindfulness. - Not even somebody can stand here right now. - All with your herky, jerky, mumbo. It's like I had anywhere that shit, bro. - Honestly, kick it and talk. - You see what I'm saying? - So like, that's how boxed in these people are. You know what I mean? And that's the sheep that we gotta go get. - Yeah, you're right. - And I think that's what the podcast is about. - Define that lost soul, and maybe we can give them a little bit of guidance. - Well, of course, you know what? The three people sitting here kind of helped each other figure it out, and I think we're doing better. So why not give it a try? Listen, I'm one of those guys, believe me. All those guys that just jumps on any little bandwagon that'll make you feel good. But when something clicks, whether it be, it was both to me, whether it be mindfulness or religion, it's a click, that's it, man. It's got you because you're like, wow, this world. - It got me out of the bottom and you didn't get me out of anything. - You know, it resonates. - It resonates. - But I always, always be wary of the mind creating even more of what you, of your faith. You might want to create more of it than it actually is. You might want to go through and try to create a story of why it's even better than you think it is. - You know, it'll, it'll snakeskin. - It'll snakeskin, yeah. And it'll take form something else. So look, I am your god now. Oh, time out of seconds, right? So it'll always be wary of the mind. And that's where the mind will, we said before, and we really have to cut it. Or we said before, that's where the mind will do what it always does. How do I make Henry survive? How do I make Henry survive? I gotta make this even the better story for Anthony. Anthony, not only was God and Jesus this, but dude, look at how it's like that. Look at how it's like that. And look at how it's like that. Until it takes you to the other side. And then you actually start losing that connectedness. - Get a gift. - And go the other way, yeah, so. - I thought that was an awesome episode. It was everything I liked that I feel like Henry. - Oh, shit, we didn't, we didn't hit record? - For sure. (laughing) - So when I, so when I say the story, it's because everybody's got a story. - Sure. - So like the Hindu have a story. - Sure. - And so it's the story accompanied with, like he broke it down. You know, I have a oneness with something higher than me. Stories aside, I have this. So that's what, with stories aside, nobody can tell you anything. Do you have this though without the stories? - Yes. - Meaning there's gotta be the history. History is what makes us what we are. - Yeah, but what's the story of? - What's my story then? - I don't, my story isn't about a religious God. My story is nothing. It's nothing. It's nothing. - It's just watching the universal power interested in the story of. - It's for me, because of my upbringing, I find it interesting. - I think so. - And entertaining, but it's not that everything is a story, it's all I mean. Everything you're hearing, you know. - But you just said something which was kind of important. You said there's a story. Do you get that without having the story? The answer is yes, 'cause I don't have a story for that. My dad has a long story because our name, it has no title. - You grew up with the story in the background. Meaning it was Jesus Christ. - And you went to Catholic school. - Yeah, okay, but that's not religious. - But that's not real day. - I get it, but that's not my story to where I am now. - What I was saying is, that took me down a day on this end that what I'm saying is there's a background to a reason why there is a fire power or you believe in their fire power. - I believe it's something greater. - I believe, how would you know? - Well, I believe it's something greater than, but the stories I was told about religion aren't what I associate my oneness, 'cause I don't put a label to it. I, and I don't refuse to. I can't put a label to it, 'cause once I put a label to it, I've now attached something that's been man-made to something that is greater than man. - I think-- - How was a man-made? - The story's a man-made. We wrote them down. - The stories were written down at the time-- - I got it, that's happening. - But it is still stories that we're being told by other people. My faith isn't in the story that was told. My faith is something I could feel, and that could only happen, by the way, with something like this, because I can't have faith that, how could it happen? I have faith that didn't happen. No, we have documented history that it did happen. That's factual, and on top of it, that's something that's not, you're not connected on a higher level too. I'm talking about something that's like, you're faith in God, or you're faith in religion, you're faith in whatever. When I say, I believe in something greater than, but I don't put a name to it. I say the I am, and that's it, that's where I leave it, so there's no, for me, there's no story to that. - I think we're gonna go down a rabbit hole here. We're gonna have another 20 minutes of talk. - I'm just gonna-- - I just don't have, I don't have the story for whatever it is. We're not thinking-- - We have, and we had both topics on this podcast that you should never talk about with friends. - I don't think so. - And religion. - No, I could see what's happening. 'Cause I'm a little bit of a third party. You know what's happening here? I'm gonna split the hair, 'cause literally it's a hair that's being split. So your journey with mindfulness is in diapers. There will be a time in the next six months or so where you're gonna be like, "I see what you motherfuckers are talking about," which is nobody's saying anything bad or wrong about the religion area. - Of course. - By the way, I don't think that you are, and yeah, I was raised with the same. - Yeah, we all kind of figured that would be your background. - Yeah. - Yeah, like so. - Chapter four. - One that I'm about to express here is that you, at this moment, right now, are identified with-- - A chapter four identification. (laughing) - So, and it's not better. We're always all right. But that's your identification. - No, there's no right or wrong to it. - I, with my stupid question, - What? - So there's a part of you that got triggered. But I observed that it was a story. I'd never said I don't believe in the story, I'd never said you were wrong, you just gave it a name. It's a story. So, and that's what he's saying is I can observe all stories, but you're like, yeah, but my story, yeah. It's a story that I believe in. - I was just trying to, I was trying to generalize it and say, well, technically everything, everything's story is-- - Yeah, I agree. - So, my point was why not believe in that one, but believe in this one, you know? - Yeah, but what he's saying is I don't believe-- - In any of them. - In their story, the story-- - I'm just connected with something greater than that. - In this example is I took away all the colors, all the names, black and white, simple. I took away everything, and whatever that powerful thing is, thing is what I try to attach it to. - You may call one thing and the Hindus may call another thing and you guys do your thing. As long as we're looking at that powerful thing, you may call it something else. - They call it the sun at one point. - Right? - Well, I don't think that's gonna change on the way I call it or look at it. - I don't mean it, it's not supposed to. - And I know do I wanna go more towards one way or the other, meaning towards, you know, just to get about religion, you go towards mindfulness or vice versa. - For me, it's a journey of both, and I love the power of it, both. - And I'm a good way in trying to peel you away. - No, I know, I know. - I know. - What I'm trying to say is looking at things differently is what you're trying to say. - That's, I know, I get you. - It's right. - Take away this. - Yes. - What's it? - If I- - Oh boy. - Stop with the- - Put all the units right in the lens. - Right here now, while we all have it. - You know how I just- - You're the only three people that bought it? No, I'm trying to- - So you know how I just spoke to you that way? - If I go ahead and pick up my religious lens, I am super in tune with you. I agree with you 100%. But what I've just tried to split, can I ask you why it has to be one lens or the other? I know you are. Let's do it after the next one. Let's do it after the next one, no, no, no. Don't even answer. - You know what? - Write it down. - So you're mugging it's on a real thing. Let's do it the next one. - What was the question? - Why do you have to look at things through either a one universal lens or a religion? Can you, can you, can you? - There is, but watch this. There is no, you're- - Oh, watch this time. - You're believing. - You're not gonna say to do your universal lens. - No, the universal, so the title means universal lens means it's all complicated. - Okay, let's do this the next one. - Right, watch this. - It's an all-incompassing lens. - It's an all-incompassing lens. - That's the answer. - It's an all-incompassing lens. - So your universal lens-incompassing lens. - So everything. - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - It keeps in- - I don't put a label to things. - For something. - Well, once I label it, I'd give it an identification. I've identified with it. I'm saying this is what it is. I don't know what it is, nor do I need to know what it is, which is what you said. - I don't need to know what it is. So I can appreciate the stories of the Bible. I can appreciate what they say Jesus did with all those great miracles. And in my heart of hearts, I hope that they really are true. Like my faith will say that they are true, but I don't need them to be true. For me, can that- - Okay, got you. Got me? - Mm-hmm. - You don't have any? - I think honestly, I wasn't just saying that to end the podcast. I do honestly get it. I need to be true in order for you to believe in. I think that should be for next somebody right at that. I have a lot. - I will. - I like that. That was good. - All right, thanks. - Thank you everybody for showing up. If you're still with us, I know this is a long one, but it was a good one. I'm gonna have fun editing this bed, boy tomorrow. But yeah, good luck with that, though. But, all right. Anyway, thanks for coming out. - Take care. - Now that's all the time. I'll ask five bucks. - Peace out, Thompson. - Peace out. - The insights and discussions that we speak about on our show are our own opinions and based on our life experiences. If you or someone in your family or someone you know is suffering and in need of help, please get them that help through medical attention or seeking proper therapy. Again, what we speak about are based on our experiences and not intended to be taken as a form of therapy. Thank you. [BLANK_AUDIO]