(upbeat music) - Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about one of our favorite things ever, audible. - Oh, audible.com or that app. - The app is great in a mommy app, constantly listening to audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre really that you like, you can listen to and you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, even new ways of thinking. This can unlock a lot for you. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your daily routine. You don't need to even set extra time aside. That's what's great. There's more to imagine when you listen. And I'll tell you something that has set both Jimmy and I's imagination soaring and that is the Lewis and Clark journals. We're both really into these right now. - Unbelievable. - And as an audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog including the latest bestsellers, the newest releases. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com/smalltownmurder or text smalltownmurder to 500, 500. That's audible.com/smalltownmurder or text smalltownmurder to 500, 500. Now back to the show. Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you about a really great way to watch all of your favorite shows and everything like that. And that is Philo. Philo has done the impossible and changed all that. One service, all the stuff you need right there. Philo's got current seasons of the shows. I can't miss and we can't miss on networks like A&E, MTV, Discovery, TLC, classics like The Office, Martin and Friends that people just, you don't get sick of it. And all of the incredible originals on AMC+ from Mad Men to Orphan Black. 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It's a convenient way to run your household, customized to your family's needs, and the easy way to raise financially smart kids. Get started with Green Light today and get your first month free at greenlight.com/wondery. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hello and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. - Yeah, and choo-choo. - Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogallo, I'm here with my co-host. - I'm Jimmy Wissman. - Thank you so much for joining us today on another insane edition of Small Town Murder Express, 10 pounds of murder in a two pound bag, as we always say, and this week we're going somewhere far, far away, we haven't been in a while, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Quickly, before we get to that, shut up and give me murder.com. What's there, you may ask? - Tell me. - Merch tickets to live shows. September 20th, get in there, Minneapolis, at the state community. It's a big beautiful place. It'll be our biggest show ever, if you guys sell it out. So go ahead and beat Chicago as our biggest show ever. Sell that out next night at the Paps. I don't know if there's any tickets left for that. Check it out in Milwaukee. If they're there, get them and come see us. It's gonna be a lot of fun. And then get the rest of the year too. Shut up and give me murder.com. Also, listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports and Your Stupid Opinions. - Hell yeah. - 'Cause they're hilarious. So we'd love for you to listen to them, obviously. And if you can't get enough, if you listen to all of that, and you still need more, we have more for you. That is patreon, patreon.com/crimeinsports is where you get all of that stuff, all the bonus material. All you have to be is $5 a month or above. A mere cup of coffee will get you hundreds of back episodes and then new episodes every other week that are brand new, that you've never heard. New bonus material this week, which you're gonna hear. You get one Crime in Sports, one small-time murder, and you get it all for Crime in Sports. We're gonna talk about, this'll be fun. We love watching footage and going, holy shit. This is gonna be the two most penalized hockey games in NHL history. It's constant fighting. So we're just gonna watch toothless Canadians beat the shit out of each other for an hour. It's gonna be awesome. I can't wait to do super-cuts of all the fights. Then for small-town murder, something we've wanted to do for a while. Internet salad, we're gonna call it. It's our pre-show that you don't get access to. When we're just hanging out as friends, talking and bullshitting, and basically going on the internet as we're setting up the show and everything, go on the internet and do you see this? Holy shit, and then we make fun of everybody. And it's always a lot of fun. And we go, God, I wish people could hear this. And we said, why don't we record this? And then we'll make it a bonus episode and it's hilarious. So check that out. That is patreon.com/crimeinsports is where you get all of that stuff. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show as well. That said, I think it's time everybody. Here we go. I think it's time to take a deep breath here. Let's summon this from deep and deep below the earth here. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Here we go. Oh, we're going. That's won a long trip here, a very long trip. We're going to Australia, baby. Oh, my. Oh, yeah, we've only done two Australian small-town murders. Is that right? Isn't that amazing? In seven years, we've done two. It feels like we've done a lot more because we've done a bunch of crime in sports of Australians. But not a small-town murder. There are always nuts over there, though, the murders. So we'll talk about it. It's what it is. We always say it's like-- and we said it in the last episode, too. It is a perfect mixture for United States people of Florida and Arizona. If you mix them together, you get Australia and it's wild. So let's do it. This is in-- oh, my God. How the hell do you even say this? Uh-oh. OK. That's not a good stuff. G-O-O-M-B-O-O-R-A-N. Gumborian. Yeah, Gumborian, I guess. I don't know if it's Ian. We're going Gumborian. There we go. Gumborian, Australia. It is. Gumborian. I see Goombai in there. It's making me distract me. And then I see Gumbai. So I think of either an Italian guy or I think of like Super Mario Brothers, either one. So that's not good. It's in far eastern Australia, like the central part of the coast, north of Sydney and all of that. That's down in the southeast. This is-- it's basically this town. And then there's some forest behind it. There's like a state forest. And then the ocean is there. Fantastic. So it's, yes, kind of on the edge of everything. It's in the Gimpy region. I looked up here. I could not find on the internet how to say Gumbari or whatever, Gumborian. But Gimpy comes up. It's G-Y-M-P-I-E. Gimpy is what it looks like. I'm having a good, nice Gimpy. And instead, it's Gimpy. OK, sure. Why not? It's two hours to Brisbane from here. That's the nearest big city. And then it is-- Yeah, to our last Australian episode, it's 13 hours away by car. Oh, Lee. That was in Nowra, New South Wales. That's not even on the other side of Australia. That's just down south there. That was episode 392, so more than 100 something episodes ago, The Face of Evil. And it was actually a crazy-ass episode, as they always are. Does that make this in Queensland, or what is this? This is in-- yes, Queensland. Yeah, this is Queensland here. Population, as of 2021, is 566 people here in this town. There's nobody here. It's really rural. It's out there. It's like a penal colony. Yes. That's what it looks like. It looks like a work camp, almost. Like, there's a big forest, and then the ocean. You'll never get out of here, even to get through the forest. The sharks will each in the ocean. That's what it looks like. The forest is booby-trapped. It's all booby-trapped. A median household income here is $60,768 koala skins, or whatever they make. It's Australian dollars, but-- A lot of details. Yeah, we said last time, while it be pelts, I think we said. So our wombat pelts or something. So that's about $40,000 US dollars as the median household income, which is much lower than the US regular income here. The Guimpy region area was originally settled for grazing purposes, because it's in the middle of Boston, nowhere. The discovery of gold in the area, though, in 1867, led to a gold rush and a development of the Mary River Valley for all this stuff, for agriculture, and for that. 1902, the Guimuborian provincial school opened. So that's when they started. That's their first school in this actual little town. That was 1902 and it closed in 1967. They were like, well, we've done enough-- Oh, 65 years, huh? We've done enough damage here. We're not doing well. No one could even pronounce our town. We blew it. Forget it. So things to do in this town, there's like no reviews of this town whatsoever. Wow. I don't know if the internet is here, to be honest with you. Well, maybe those 500 people are just like, don't tell anybody. This place is amazing. Yeah. We've got a forest and a beach right next to each other. Shut up. It's far, yeah. I don't know, man. I feel like more people might have come here if it was that great. I think it's just rural. I mean, it's-- Maybe. Brisbane is the nearest place and that's hours away. So I think it's just out there. Things to do, though, they have the Guimmeri, G-O-O-M-E-R, I, Guimmeri Pumpkin Festival and Great Australian Pumpkin Roll. Here we go. We're rolling pumpkins, baby. Yeah. Get ready for the festival's most anticipated event, the Great Australian Pumpkin Roll. And it has a trademark next to it. Oh, shit. Don't you fucking dare try to co-op that shit. Don't sell any of our merch. I want to hear it. Not a goddamn thing. I will sue you. Join hundreds of pumpkin rollers as you send your pumpkins racing, splattering, and hurling down policeman's hill. OK. Sounds like you're chasing cops with pumpkins on the roll. I guess the plan would be to have the best round pumpkin, right? You don't want it off. Yeah, the more oblong it is, the bigger jumps it's going to take, the harder it'll hit the ground. Yeah, that'll splash. More chance of splatter, I would imagine. Register now to compete for the highly coveted position of pumpkin roll champion. Yeah. Yes, get a belt and everything with a pumpkin on it. And have your name listed on the Goomery Pumpkin Festival honor roll. Well, that's-- Oh, you get a-- Basically, they give you the same honors as if you eat the big burger at that weird burger place in your town, where they put your picture on the wall if you eat it. Yeah, or you don't miss a day of school. Yeah, it's four patties and ham and shit. And you're like, what the hell's going on here? So you get first place is $500. This is the adult division, by the way. There's a junior division 12 and under, and then there's 13 and up as a dome. So if you're 13, you're in deep waters, man. And all you get is a Tim Tim. That's it. You get a trophy and a perpetual plaque. Second place, $100. And that's it. And for the junior division, first place is only $250. You're only five beaten kids. Not bad, though. Now, here we go, though, there's a lucky spot. $1,000 will be rewarded to any whole pumpkin which lands on the lucky spot at the end of the roll. So now it's like ski ball. You're going for that 100 at the top. It's a pochy ball. Yeah. If more than one pumpkin's on the lucky spot at the end of the roll, prize money will be split. Oh, that's great. Pumpkins may be pushed, rolled, or bold using an underarm technique. No throwing or overarm bowling is allowed. Well, this is going to break you up. It doesn't mean that's not going to-- That's bad form, man. Yeah, it's going to be terrible. That's not going to help you. Don't throw a bowling ball like that either, do you? You ever see anyone overhand it? I have it roll curvy. Maybe. Can you put some spin on it, a little English on it? A competitor will be disqualified if their pumpkin leaves the mark track. So it goes off to the side. The competitor crosses the start line or part thereof. Yeah, no fouls. Fowl and bowling. After the start, if the pumpkin is touched by anyone. Can't touch your pumpkin. That's it. You can't guide it. You release it and it's done. And you must enter at the designated pumpkin track. And that's how it goes there. Can you go in front of it with a broom like fucking-- That's not like her like, no, you can't sweep the way. Can't sweep the track. Pumpkins must be at least 12 centimeters in diameter. So you can't have a little tiny pumpkin that won't break because that'll be more solid. And also, you can either purchase the pumpkin there or bring your own pumpkin. That's right. If the pumpkin is deemed too big for the safety of the roll, it will not be registered. So that could just pop out of nowhere, you never know people. 12 minutes in, it's all about pumpkins. Yeah, that's it. I can't-- I want to hear a group of Australians cheer on rolling pumpkins. Oh, I can't roll! Screaming, calling. Oh, yeah, that's so bad. OK, that said, let's talk about some murder, baby. Oh, here we go. This is some wild, every goddamn episode we do in Australia. And it makes sense because we don't do a lot of them. So the ones we do are crazy. By the way, we know about the snow and murders we've been sent. And we'd love to do it because it's an interesting story. The reason why we're not is because, literally, even if a podcast isn't about murder, they've covered it. It's like, there's fucking podcasts that are about basketball that have covered this. Everybody covers this shit. That's the only reason why we have it. And it's like, oh, it's just-- We think you might be sick of hearing about it by now. You may know the ins and outs. A little bit, probably better than us. So that said, let's talk about this instead. Let's talk about-- this is insanity here, by the way, just as crazy stuff. Let's talk about Bruce Saunders, first off. S-A-U-N-D-E-R-S Saunders. He's born about 1963, Bruce's. He's a butcher. And I don't mean just a bad guy who just indiscriminately chops up people. He actually-- You take apart a bow. --a cow or whatever and make dinner out of it. So he does that. Everybody says, very generous man and his actions speak to this. Very generous. Give you the shirt off his back type of guy. Very caring man. Everybody likes him because he's a very nice man. And he's very-- wears his emotions on his sleeve type of guy. Really, really always wants a marriage that he likes. And he wants a partner. And that's all what he's all about. And he has just bad luck with this, as we talk about here. He does get married to a woman that he's very happy with. They have a son named Blake here. And who has maybe the worst hair I've ever seen on a human being as an adult? No, no offense to Blake. Nice guy. But wow, it's his hair a disaster. If you-- he's the guy you look at and go, just shave that. Come on. What is happening here? There's shit flying around. I mean, you're Blake. You just got to follow me, bud. Just do it. After problem is, though, his wife ends up getting sick with breast cancer and dying at a young age. Like when the kid's still young and all that kind of thing. So that's really hard on Bruce, obviously. And Blake, Bruce and Blake, the father-son team. They rebound. Bruce does. He gets married a second time. Great. And that falls apart. She lives, but they don't-- then it doesn't work out. So the relationship doesn't. It doesn't work out. So now he's got-- he's a widow. He's divorced. He's going for it all. He's got a widow, a divorce. Yeah. He's going to go for an annulment next just to get all the different ways to dissolve a marriage, just poor guy. So he's trying to do that. He really, really, and his son grows up now. And he's out of the house and all that. He's lonely. And he's desperate for love. He really wants love, as people get. You know what I mean? He's 50s in his early 50s. And he's like, you know, I'm not an old man yet. No. Still a young man in terms of the world. So does someone offer? Yeah, I have another good amount of time to spend with someone and have a good time. So he wants to. So he starts going on different dating sites, online dating sites in March 2017. He's going on different apps. One in particular is a site called Brisbane Singles, which is, you know, singles in the Brisbane area. Brisbane? Pretty easy to figure out there. And Mary. Mary, people in Des Moines? Yeah, not Mary, people in Des Moines. Mary Des Moines would be a totally different app. I don't think it would be very popular. No. [LAUGHTER] I want to bang some Mary people from Iowa. So he meets a woman on there who he thinks is-- he's found it, basically. He's like, I found it. He meets Sharon Graham. And he goes, boom, that's my girl here. Sharon Graham, she's a few years older than him. And she's totally different than him, though. She's kind of more of a free spirit, let's say. He's not a stiffer, a prude or anything, but she's really a free spirit, even free in terms of doesn't even have a job. Oh, that's as free as a kid. She's free and clear, man, just she's on the dole. And, you know, basically is known to kind of get money from guys she goes out with, which is a shit load, by the way, just-- Really? Yeah, this is not-- he's not the first person she met on the dating site. You know, that he's the first person, she's not the first person. You know what I'm talking about. She's the first he's met, but he's not hers. Yeah, exactly. So she doesn't have a job. And they end up starting to go out, and he showers her with gifts. And I mean, he thinks he's found his new wife. We are such suckers. But then they kind of goes on and off their relationship. She'll break up with them, and then she'll call them the next week and, you know, want to go out? Yeah, sure. So then they're kind of back together, but then they're not like, you know what I mean? Like he never knows where it's shifting sands under his feet. A little unpredictable, yeah. No, he never knows exactly what's happening here, though. Now, as far as she goes, a little background on her that we can glean from her Facebook profile. Sure, that's fine. A lot of pictures, tons of pictures. She posts pictures of herself constantly in different, whatever, hanging out, drinking, talking to her friends, and all that kind of thing. Her profile, it says, "I'm a caring, loving, happy person. Love life." That's what she says, which says nothing about you. What's up? Nope. It says, these are some things I've heard. It says, "I like to breathe and eat food." Is what that says. It's not helping. How many times did she post, "Life is good," as an update? Yeah. "Life is great." She's her sitting there with water behind her, drinking her hand. And then also, the introductions and the profiles that she has under that, it says, "Those who hesitate have lost." Oh, she's introspective. Yeah, she's real deep, this broad. Yeah, she's a deep one. So they meet, like we said, late 2016, and this continues into 2017. And I guess he ends up moving two different times during this period, because he's renting places, and then he buys a house. So he's trying to find a place to buy. So she followed him to motherfucker. She follows him to Tu Wumba, Tu Wumba. T-O-O-W-O-O-M-B-A, Tu Wumba. Tu Wumba, yeah. But I'm sure it's Tu Wumba or something, because it's always, usually the O-O is a uh sound there when these names. Tu Wumba, oh boy, Tu Wumba. Tu Wumba, or Tu Wumba. Then to, "Bligh, Bligh," or "Blee, B-L-I, B-L-I." Your guess is as good as mine, non-Australians. I'm sorry, 'cause I don't fucking know. Neither does Jimmy. We're clueless. Bleably. That's on the Sunshine Coast, which is near-- Oh, yeah. That's south of here, of where we're talking about, of Gympie, so. And finally, Nambour, which is another area in Gympie, and where Gumba, whatever the hell it is, is-- Gumba Ramba. Gumba Rambia is, we're gonna call it. They settled into a home, he buys a home. So she follows him to each place, even though they're on and off, and all this type of shit. She follows him and just-- And lives with him? Yes, just moves with him, but then breaks up with him, and half lives with him, and half does it, and then comes back. And so she moves into the home, he bought with him. So, there we go. She's a little weird, by the way, Sharon. Whitey. A little touch. Well, all this is going on. Okay, she has a daughter named Rebecca. She's got a kid? Yeah, yeah, she's got kids, what do you think? She's not, no one's gonna slip one past the goalie here. Come on. No. No, we never, insane. It's insane people never go, I'm a little fucked up. Maybe I shouldn't have kids. It never happens. It never breeds. They always go, I'll have a kid, that'll fix it. That's the difference. That's what crazy people say. That'll fix me. Yeah, this is gonna set my path right. Inficile study these things. No! This will force me to get my life on track. That's what it is. So, Sharon asks the daughter's boyfriend, takes him aside, okay? And this is when she's with Bruce and things are going well and the relationship is on at that point. The boyfriend said, quote, Sharon asked me if I could get Rebecca, that's the daughter pregnant. So we would have a child together and give it to Sharon. Oh! And they'll have a baby now. (laughs) Which is like, what? Will you knock my daughter up and then just give me the baby, please? Can you give me a grandchild I raise as my own? Yeah, I'd like a grandbaby daughter, please. That's what I'd like right now. So, and then he said that if we did that for her, she could offer us a house. So she offered to, she has no money, by the way. She doesn't have a house herself. She offers to buy them a house if they'll give her a baby. So she's looking for a house for a baby trade, which is a weird trade. That's a weird, that doesn't sound legal, right? I don't think the marketplace is accepting those trade. No, no. How do you put that on the paperwork? One Caucasian baby. That's-- Is that the going rate of a baby, a house? A house, that's an expensive baby. So, like we said, very on and off this relationship. At one point, he's at work, Bruce. He's cutting meat at the butcher shop, okay? This is about September-ish 2017 in the supermarket where he works. And I guess he burst into tears talking to coworkers about how it all-- And this is like a 50-something year old butcher, an Aussie butcher, you know what I mean? Like, that's a tough guy. He cleans up viscera all day. He's seeing really horrible things. Deadly animals approaching him. He doesn't break conversation. He just throws a fucking boomerang at it, hits it in the head, kills it, and then catches it while he's still looking at you and puts it back in his holster. And looks for the tenderloin on that. I was gonna say, then he goes and cuts it out and he's like, "Oh, you want a piece?" This is the best cut. "I've got a leg for you." And he gets some garlic. Yeah, he's giving you a spice rub to put on it. This is best for really, for the roof eye that you're gonna be eating tonight. That's, man, that's what shit. I've seen so many guys do this, too. Like, they're like strong men and then, like, all of a sudden, they're like, "You're just a puddle of shit." A potion at work, too, which is the way, like, "Oh, no, this is..." There's so much to be done, and you're just crying. This is terrible. Yeah, you can't do that. We have to, you have to get the other end of this and pick it up because this is heavy. It's not crying. I recommend that men do that, though, 'cause it... I don't worry. In my... No, no, no, but break down a little bit. Anywhere else? Yeah, go ahead. Fuck, man. I respect the shit out of that guy. No, no, no, be yourself. And absolutely, you know, have a mental breakdown. But don't get your tears in the meat, is what I'm saying. No. I don't know. Take a 15. Take a little salt, might help. Take a 15. That's all of me. You know what I mean? Do it there. He said that by the next week, though, he said that he was telling everyone that it was a bit of a mess at home and everything was bad. Then by the next week, he's saying everything's changed. Fixed it. And we're no longer, yeah, they weren't even sleeping in the same bedroom anymore. And now everything's changed, they're back in the same bedroom, and now they're planning on getting married. Oh, thank you, fucked. Yeah, they're fucking hard. She threw a good one at him. He fucked nicely. He buys her a ring during this time. He's very stable financially. Right. Everybody says he doesn't have a lot of a ton of money, but he's got good assets. He's got... Will eat. He's got a retirement. He's got a home that he owns. He's got cars, he's got things. Yeah, he's doing pretty well. I mean, very stable compared to her, especially compared to Sharon. He also spoke to his friends about putting a life insurance policy on himself. 'Cause he wouldn't want poor Sharon to be left out in the lurch if he accidentally saw it his head off at work or something when he was trying to cut through a wombat fucking wing or something. Down when there was a side of beef in there, all of a sudden I got no shoulder. There it is. Bansaw, that's what happens. Another friend of his, a colleague, called Karen Armstrong as her name, said that his greatest fear, Bruce's greatest fear was that Sharon would leave him. So, he hadn't admitted to her that he's actually kind of been lying to her. Even though he does want to marry her, he is still technically married to his second wife, Bernadette, even though they haven't been together in years. They're not actually divorced yet. You can't be technically married. You are married. You're fucking married. Yeah. In the process of a divorce is the correct way to say that, I believe. Yeah, looking forward to this being finalized. Oh, you're still married? No paperwork, process of a divorce. It's all, it's wheels are in motion. Yeah. Anything other than that is kind of shady. You know what I mean? He hasn't done anything. He's not taking any steps to liquidate. Make this whole thing go away. He wants to, but now he's worried that she'll find out it's going on and he'll she'll find out he's already married. So, her friend at work said he was always just scared. If he did tell her that she would leave him, he was terrified about that. She would often threaten to leave him. That was the biggest, or his biggest push button, I guess you would call him. And she also said he was asset rich, but cash poor. And she said, quite simply, he was worth more dead than alive. Ouch. Which is a tough way to be. And which is how both of us are at this moment. Generally, yeah. So, he recently insurance are up to his life insurance policy to $750,000 policy. Nice. And listed Sharon as the sole beneficiary, even though he has a son as well. He also recently purchased a house and had $80,000 death benefit in his superannuation as well. So, she would get $750, a house and $80,000. Yeah, and that super is the, that's the government 401(k) that they have there. I believe so, yeah. That's what it's called, yeah. That's their deal. Like there, is that like your social security kind of a deal? Yeah, basically, yeah. But it's like the government operated. So, it's like a 401(k) that the government operates. It's bizarre. Isn't that social security kind of? Yeah, but not based on stocks. Right, right. Well, not based on the market, yeah. Well, when the market crashed, yeah. That could go either way. So, anyway, that's scary. It's a whole, so, neither of us know shit about finances. So, we're not the people that talk about this. It's a retirement for Australians. There you go. And so, yeah, that's his greatest fear, though. And it's a well-founded fear because she, like I said, is very flighty and the relationship is very on and off. And part of that is because she is fucking multiple other people at the same time. Yeah, she's got a lot going on here. Number one is Peter Koenig here, Kannig, K-O-E-N-I-G, Peter. He is a truck driver who is also plowing Sharon at this current time. They met before, well before she ever met Bruce back when he was driving a truck and she was the girlfriend of his boss, of Peter's boss. So, that's how she met Peter as she was going out with his boss and then said, I'm going to fuck your employee as well as this truck driver guy. That guy's hot. Now, Peter ended up moving following Sharon when she moved here to the get there. Oh, yeah, he is mobile as fuck. He doesn't care. He's got a truck to go on. And his boss has pissed at him, so he doesn't want to stay there. He just want to be around there. So, she's living with someone else and everything and moving with him to these places. And every one of these places, Peter just, like, follows and moves there also. Everyone who knows him just said that he followed Sharon around. That was the quote everybody said. He moved with her to multiple locations in Queensland and when they weren't living because they would live together for a while too. When she moves out of the house of Bruce's house, she's living with him. That's how it goes on and off. She would stay with him, you know, for a week or maybe two weeks and then go home. And it's described as one person described it that knew them both. Said it was a tortured friendship that he had with her, which was sometimes friendly, sometimes really like incendiary, sometimes fighting all the time. And then a lot of times, sexual. OK, Peter says that she really enjoyed it when he would take naked pictures of her and photograph her performing sexual acts on him as well. She got that. That's nice that we know that. That's good that we know that. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you about an awesome and an absolutely safe sponsor. Simply safe. Simplysafe.com, S-I-M-P-L-I, safe.com. 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It's a great thing, therapy, for anybody, for any kind of problem. It's really the best place to start to try to solve it. It's awesome. And now it's really hard because with social media and everything like that, you're going to get caught up in comparing your life to other people's lives. It's impossible not to when you see that. How much fun other people are having. It's not good seeing, oh, they're doing-- they must be happier than me. Look at this picture. They say they're happy. They must be happy. They have smiles. We start comparing our lives, then we spiral down a drain. And it's horrible. And we've all been there before. And therapy is one of those things that can help you get out of this little cycle, for sure. Therapy can help you focus on what you want, rather than what others have. Right. It's so much better. So start living your best life and not worrying about what other people are doing. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It is entirely online, designed to be convenient. It suits your schedule very flexible. So stop comparing and start focusing with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/smalltownmurder today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com/smalltownmurder. Now back to the show. Now during one of these 2017 break-ups with Bruce, Sharon started a relationship with another guy. OK, this is Gary Roser, R-O-S-E-R. Some other guy, guess what he does? He's a truck driver. He works for the same guy that she used to go out with. So another employee. He's starting his whole fleet. Just anybody in that motor pool just open for business here. CDLs really turn her off. I'm telling you, she's like, mmm, yeah. I want to see you work that extra clutch. Come on, do it. Can you operate a big rig? Because I am soaked. Double-clutching makes me wet. So I guess when she returned after one of the break-ups, that's when she was staying in a separate bedroom. And Gary Roser lived in a caravan park, which is like-- Trailer Park. Trailer Park, or an RV type of joint, out of perfectly well-named Deception Bay. That's where it was. Oh, my god. Which is amazing. That should be the town of every case we do. So she's going out there to fuck him in Deception Bay. Fantastic. Completely. Gary Roser's described as, quote, aggressive, doesn't have a lot of money and wasn't stable. So that's the guy you want to go out with. Desperate. Desperate. A desperate character, what is what I'd call him? Like an old West drifter. He's going to come in here. This is-- Brightening human being. An aggressive, poor, unstable truck driver. With nothing to lose. Excellent. Sounds good. And who's living in a fucking caravan park at this point? Damn it. So they start this relationship in mid-2017 during one of these break-ups. And wow, Bruce told his friends, too. He's not dumb, Bruce. He didn't think that she was going off to stay with her girlfriends and weep over him. One of his friends said that he knew there was another man on the scene. He knew it. He didn't know there was two. And also, there's a third one that she's kind of seeing as well. Doesn't really know that, but she knows there's somebody. Roser here. Gary Roser was introduced to Bruce by Sharon, but introduced him as Roger because Bruce has heard through the grapevine that Sharon was possibly cheating on him with a guy named Greg. And his name is Greg Roser. This is Rose is Roger. Rose is another guy with the same letters. Yeah. Roser, Roger. So she introduces him as Roger. So Bruce isn't hip to the fact that this is the guy who's banging his girlfriend. All right. September of 2017, this is Peter Koenig and Gary Roser. They now, by the way, know each other and hang out together. She has grouped her boyfriends up into like a stable-- She's got Greg and Peter hanging out together. Hanging out together, doing shit for her together. And like, yeah, they're like her lackeys at the same time together. I sure hope one of us gets to fuck her tonight. Like, what kind of goofballs are these, though? Jesus Christ. Their names are Greg and Peter, really. The Greg and Peter, yes. Two of the Brady bunch. Two of the Brady bunch, yeah. There will be a Bobby on the scene, but we have Bruce. So one time, one night, this is about late September, Peter and Gary Roser were asked to meet Sharon-- Is it Gary or Greg? Or Greg, I'm sorry, Greg. That's why I say Gary. I have no idea. I don't know. Peter and Greg Roser were asked, I almost said it again, because in my head, to meet Graham Sharon at a hotel room in Gympie. Meet me in Gympie. It's going to be hot. To you in my hotel room. That's right. To you in some other places I got to. Let's go. But instead, apparently, at this point, she talked to them. She wanted to meet them there. I don't know if it was for sex, but at some point, she told them, I really want Bruce to be dead. Anyway, we could accomplish that. I want to kill him. He's got life insurance, and I get all of it, and a house. So you guys should help me do this, and that way you can just stay at my house and bang me and take pictures of it, and I'll have money to spend, and it'll be a great time. It's really going to be wonderful. That's their plan. And the plan has several incarnations, as we'll tell, as we'll be able to find out later on when we get all the details. But, yeah, it starts out, worst day we're going to shoot him, and then they're like, no, no, that's too loud. Never mind. But they got a gun, and then never mind. And then, yeah, there were several attempts. Then on November 12, 2017, finally, things kind of come together for them. That morning, Bruce, Greg, and Peter all arrive at this property in Gomborian. And this is not his property. This is the property of a friend of Sharon's. This one lady, Sharon Biden, she owns it. - Another Sharon. - Another Sharon. - Sharon's property, or is it a house? - It's land with a house there. But they have a lot of land there. All of the properties here, by the way, have shit loads of land. - It's sprawling. - It's sprawling, 'cause it's all like it used to be farms and ranches and shit, so it's a different deal in agriculture. So, apparently, this lady, Sharon Biden, her husband had just died. - Right. - And so, Graham, Sharon, this the other Sharon, had organized for the three guys she's having sex with to help her with yard work. So, not only do they hang out together and do everything, they also do yard work. She can get them to do yard work together. - Come on out and pull some weeds with me. - Imagine doing yard work with two guys who are plowing your girlfriend. What a weird-- - All of us together. - Wow. - What a weird thing. So, that's how this goes. And they wanted to clear some trees on the property and clear some vegetation, so it would have better curb appeal to increase its value, 'cause they're selling the property. - Okay. - So, they had gone the last two weekends they'd been here doing this. They spent two, this man is butchering all week, and then spending his weekends clearing brush with the dudes who are banging his girlfriend. - Managing the bush with guys that manage his girlfriend's bush. - Everybody manages the one bush very well. So, they'd gotten a truck, chainsaws, tools, they rented all this shit. And an industrial size wood chipper, 'cause they're putting fucking trees in the goddamn thing. And Bruce pays for all this shit, by the way. Even though this is for her friend who's trying to increase her land value. He doesn't say like, well, you gotta rent us equipment if you want us to do that. He pays for it. - Okay. - Free labor and tools. - Wow. So, sometime after seven p.m. they work all day, and it gets to be about seven p.m. It gets to start to get dark. And so, they have all day of working their asses off. They turn off the wood chipper, 'cause that's what they're done with it, and start to walk up the driveway toward the house. And Sharon Biden, the friend who owns the home, she's asleep inside at seven o'clock at night, which is weird. Anyway. Hopefully it's a nap, yeah. Otherwise, she's going to bed super early. So, Peter, I guess, is leading the group. There's the three of them walking, and I guess it seems to be Peter in the front here. Bruce in the middle. - It's in the middle, of course. - And then Greg in the back. - Yep. - Okay. So, I guess Peter, or Bruce falls forward, and Peter feels Bruce brush his arm, like against his arm. And Peter later said, I looked around and he was laying on the ground. - Yeah. - Oh boy. Roser, meaning Greg, was standing over him with the steel bar. - Oh boy, with a pry bar? Oh my God. - With a pry bar. The bar had been used earlier in the day to push debris further into the wood chipper. - Yep. - It's a big fucking long steel bar. He said he was holding the bar over his shoulder, and he clubbed him on the head again and again. He kept beating him on the head on the steel bar. - Oh my God. - He said, I said, what the fuck have you done? He said, I've killed him, he's dead. Okay, so now they've beaten the death of the steel bar. - Yep. - So, then Peter said, quote, I found a stick, and then they drag Bruce back down to where they were working, and turn on the wood chipper. - Oh my word. - Yep, and they place him on the machine's feeder tray. - Oh Jesus. - And Peter said, I found a stick. I placed Bruce on the chipper, and I used the stick to push his arm to the rollers to take him in. - Oh Jesus. - When his arm went in, the machine just started taking him in there. I hit the stop button on the side of the machine. He didn't hit the stop button until all that was left was legs sticking out. - Oh Jesus. - They chipped his whole torso. - Everything. - And left him from the waist down, is sticking out of the fuck. His legs are sticking out of the wood chipper. - Like a cartoon. - Like a fucking cartoon. Like a Halloween joke. You'd put that in your yard. - Like a decoration on your lawn, yeah. - Exactly. Like a ridiculous thing like that. So, that's insane spray- - But it's real. - But it's a human fucking being. It's horrifying. So, right after that, Greg called Sharon. Not Sharon who owns the home, Sharon Graham, the guy who put, yeah, Graham. And he told her quote, Bruce had gone through the chipper. That's what he said. And then walked up the driveway to find Sharon biting the owner of the house. She's asleep, but woken up when Peter and Greg come in to her front, you know, in her front of the house there. And this is a far distance from the wood chipper, by the way, it's down there. And Peter said to her quote, "There's been an accident." This is actually clever, but so dumb. - But yeah, when you hear some of the details, I didn't think it all through here. And then Greg said to Sharon Biden, "I tried to save him, I tried to pull him out." - Oh boy. - And so, yeah, she said, so she called triple zero, which is 911 there. - So weird. - And yeah, she said that they had, which is much easier to remember, zero, zero, zero. - Yeah. - We fucking 911. Why didn't we come up with that? - 911, 222, why are we switching numbers? What the fuck are we doing as a country? - Why are we doing a different corner? - We could have picked any three numbers we wanted to and said, "Those are the ones." - And zero, zero, zero makes all the sense in the world. It's like calling the hotel front desk. You just dialed the zero. - It's to zero, yeah, I need an operator, I need help, I need whatever that's zero is how you get to, you know, to speak to the fucking representative zero. - 911, goddamn it. - So, she said, "I said to the operator," this is Sharon Biden. "My friend's gone through the chipper or something like that." Which is the most casual Australian phrase you could say. - I like that. - "My friend's gone through the chipper or something like that." Like that sounds, you can totally hear it in that clipped Australian accent, like I can 100% hear it. - Yeah. - He said that then Greg started telling Sharon Biden, the homeowner here, that Bruce was, quote, "being dangerous" while he worked all the time. He kept going way too close to the chipper and he called him an absolute idiot. He said he's being an absolute idiot out there. He said he was standing on the chipper, leaning back into it. - Yeah. - That's what he told me, Sharon said. Why would you do that? That's what I mean. He's the guy that like dangles off the balcony and he's like, "Look at me, woo!" Like wearing a dangly sleeve, dang on that over here. - Wearing a necklace. - Long ponytail, just fucking putting his head back in it. It will never touch my hair. So that's at 8 p.m. emergency services, receive a call just before 8 p.m. Reports of a terrible accident, a man fell into a wood chipper on Tenanna Road. When, yeah, a merchant took emergency for his 30 minutes to get there. - Don't fall in a wood chipper, I'm sorry. - Well, you know it's rural when, I would assume that's not a slow ride. Holy shit, a guy fell in a wood chipper. This is a problem, they're gonna probably rush theirs. When they get out of the car, it's a bloodbath, I mean, as you can imagine. Imagine woodshipping half a human being. - Yeah, Bruce is just dripping down trees. This is so much. - Yeah, they said that human remains and blood and chunks and viscera were scattered for 15 meters around the shoe to the wood chipper. - 45 feet. - 45 feet of just scattered-- - 50 foot blasts of Jesus. - 50 foot Bruce zone all around. And the legs, there's a pair of legs protruding from sticking out of the wood chipper in the back there. They also found a pool of blood approximately two and a half meters from the machine, a pool of blood. - Okay. - Which is suspicious and they don't like that at all. They find, when they first get there, they find Peter and Greg and they're very distressed and they said, "Oh no, our good buddy Bruce here," accidentally fell into the wood chipper. He's been so careless and casual around it all day. They said, "All day we've been talking about it," saying, " Bruce, you gotta stop fucking around and he just makes him do it more." - Says in the manual not to do that. - Yep, so they find a pool of blood on the feeder tray of the wood chipper. - Yeah. - Also, which is like, hmm, if he was alive and then fell in, the blood shot that way and there wouldn't be a pool of blood beforehand. Yeah, they find that, they're like, that's interesting. Also, another thing that's even more interesting, drag marks in the dirt. From halfway up the driveway down to the wood chipper. - What the fuck? - Yeah, they're like, oh, that's a tree with no leaves or anything. It's, yeah, you know how it is. - It's one of those blood trees. - It's just those blood trees that I, oh shit, it lost a shoe, uh oh, well, that's a problem. So yeah, that's, this is a fucking mess, obviously. I mean, this is horrifying. Scientists proved that the blood pool was from Bruce, by the way, and it was not consistent, a pool of blood there with someone being suddenly dragged through a fucking wood chipper. They said, they asked the two guys, Peter and Greg, I said, why would there be blood here? - Yeah. - And they tried to come up with something, but after a while, one of them said, a tree branch fell on Bruce while he was working, and he was bleeding all day all over everything. - That's a lot of blood, guys. - Pouring blood. Every time he'd go put some more wood in the chipper, just they would pour out of his head and pull up there. You know how it is. - I don't know, maybe he had hemorrhoids. - We wouldn't ask him that situation. - He had head roids, we have no idea. It's pouring out of his head. - Just dripping. - So here's some text messages that from Sharon to a friend of hers, she's Sharon Graham, not Sharon the homeowner. Sharon Graham sent to a friend shortly after he died, saying he was D-E-V-O, I don't know what that means. It's an Australian word for gone, I guess. - Yeah. - And he's, and so sick. And then he said that, she said that, or she was D-E-V-O and so sick, over the killing. - Oh, Devastate. - Over the being dead. Devast, Devastate, which is not spelled like that. She, that's maybe why we didn't know. Then she said he was texting me when his phone must've dropped into the wood mulcher, and he must've went to grab it, and he went from that. - So important to texting me back. - Text me. - Not the phone, Sharon. - Ah, I dropped my phone in there. Let me reach in the wood chipper and get it back, without turning it off, of course. - Of course. - Which it would be super easy to do with this big button on the side that just is red. It's a rental chipper, so it's probably got a big red stop button on the fucking side. He then went on to, oh, I'm sorry, the friend texted back. Don't know what to think or say. Poor everyone involved, you know. Poor everybody, this is horrible. - Yeah, it's shocking. - And then Sharon said, police have said it's a tragic accident. - Okay, yeah. - You just said that too. - Yeah, I mean, do you need the cops to tell you that? Then she said also that Greg tried to stop the machine, but it was too late. He was already all chipped up. And meanwhile, Peter was the one that stopped it. Now, during the funeral, she sits front row right next to-- - He's just gonna bury the legs, wow. - They cremate him, they cremate his legs. Otherwise, you'd have the coffin, but you'd have the bottom half closed and nothing on top. And they'd be like, he's not in here, they're like, open the bottom. - Oh, never mind, there he is. - That would be amazing though. The top half is closed and all you see is his shoes at the bottom. Well, you know, I get, he's the victim here and I try to bash, but that's just kind of funny. That's like a cartoon funeral, that's terrible. - That's a fucked up funeral. - That's fucked up. That's why they creamed it and probably. So she sat right in the front row next to his son and cried and his son, his son was comforting her. Bruce's son Blake was comforting her. That is fucking amazing. Then, she turned, this is the ballsiest thing of all. - Yeah. - She turns to Blake afterwards and goes, do you think I could have half of his ashes? - Oh, can I have a leg? - Hey, let me get him back. What the, can I have half? You're his girlfriend for less than a year. - No, you can't have anything. - And you're plowing those guys. No, you can't have them. And also-- - But you a wood chipper. - That's it. And that's not even the fucking weirdest part. Then, 'cause Christmas is right after that, I guess after his service was 10 days before Christmas and there was a family gathering and at that family gathering, this is Sharon Graham's family, she was giving out his clothes, Bruce's clothes to people and encouraging them to wear the t-shirts right now. Put his clothes on. - Put it on. - Wear it now. - See how it fits. - Wear a dead man's clothes. - What? - Did she wrap them? - No, just say handing them out to people. Here, throw the shirt on. You're a fan of that team now. There you go. - Put on this rabbit-o's shirt. - Right. So Sharon's, here put on this Ben Cousins jersey. I don't know. Sharon's daughter's boyfriend, the one who she approached and said, "Will you knock my daughter up for me?" He's like, "I'm a kid." This poor bastard. He's also Hans Herlmaier, his name is. - Yeah. - And he said, "I thought that was really odd." Her trying to force people to wear. - Well done. - Yeah, that is so fucking weird. That and also trying to get her pregnant. Then we have more texts from friends here. This is 10 days after the funeral. Sharon's message is the same friend that she discussed, told her about the crime and said she was all Devo and everything. This is just to talk about what are we doing New Year's Eve? What's everybody doing New Year's Eve? She's not in mourning anymore, everything's fine. Sharon said, "We're going to Yadeena Hotel. "The band is the Whiskey Mountain Boys." - Oh my God. - Oh great. Thank fuck for that. Terrific. - They got Whiskey Mountains there? - Whiskey Mountain Boys. I don't have either of those things, probably. And then she said, "What do you think, woo-hoo?" I think this is weird. Are you wearing your dead boyfriend's clothes there? 'Cause this is strange. This is very weird. Now, one of her other friends said that Sharon called her right after that Bruce had been killed and described her as being hysterical and crying and saying she said that one of the guys had fallen into the wood chipper and oh my God, blah, blah, blah. This is terrible. Then about a week or two later, she wanted the same friend to write a letter to her lawyer, quote, "Because of insurance." I need you to write a letter for me. What's the letter? And she said, "Well, you have to say that me and Bruce "were in a committed relationship at the time of his death "so I can get." So it doesn't look, yeah. And this lady said she wouldn't do it because, quote, "It wasn't true." - Oh. - I'm not gonna lie to your insurance company for you. That's a crime and I'm not doing it. - Give it to his kid, Jesus. (upbeat music) - Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about our friends, our very fashionable friends that quince head over there. 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Dates to be done July 14th through the 23rd in Adelaide. - Why are you writing that, Doggy? - That's interesting. Now that, she wrote that by the way. He wrote that down and Sharon had plane tickets to be in Adelaide from July 14th to July 23rd. So she's saying do this while I'm in Adelaide. - While I'm out of town, yeah. - And that's what he's saying. Do that these dates, she's in Adelaide. Then there's a second note detailing Bruce's work schedule, a description of his car, his plate number, where he worked and the times that he usually comes and goes. You know, you would give a mob hitman to take somebody out, all written down. - All the information of where he's going to be. - Well, at all times, in Greg's own handwriting. Now, then we come up with Sharon's ex-boyfriend. This is Barry Collins. That's the guy who owned the trucking company who employed Peter and Greg. - Barry. - Barry, yeah. - Almost Bobby. - Almost Bobby Collins, yeah. - That's close. - That's so close, isn't it? So three months of the demented Brady Bunch we have here. This is fucking insane. - These boys are diabolical. - Yeah, the diabolical demented Brady Bunch. - So they two pops through the wood chipper. - Oh my God. So about three months before Bruce was killed, a Sharon was out on a fishing boat in Tin Can Bay with Barry Collins, her ex-boyfriend. So that's, I mean, she'll go hang out with anybody. This is while she was supposed to be with one of those three other guys who knows. So she at that point said, it'd be super easy to take someone fishing and have that person not come back. - Yeah. - Yeah, it's worked for the sopranos. Yeah. (laughs) She might have just saw that. That's just like, I'm just doing a rewatch of the sopranos and the whole big pussy situation gives me an idea. This guy went on to say Barry Collins said, she saw the bay in the expanse of it and said you could take somebody out fishing and they may not come back. They could just fall off a boat and not be found. And they said, what did you say to her? And he said, I said, don't be fucking stupid. I don't want people coming after me. Don't take my boat and kill anyone on it please. - I like my boat, leave it alone. - Yeah, but this same guy who said that also said this. He also said in an affidavit that he does not believe that she could have done it. - Really? - Yeah, he tells the affidavit and tells the police about a gun that he was given by a friend after a break-in at an Australian property that where they lived. They lived in a secluded property this couple before they moved to Queensland. And he said that they were driving out of the property for the last time when he remembered putting the gun under a big rock and leaving it there. Not taking it with him. - He just got in there. - Who had a responsible gun over there? - Super responsible. - This is right, you're not allowed to have guns in Australia, you saw a bitch. - 'Cause next thing you know, a kangaroo is gonna be shooting everyone in a McDonald's and it's a fucking disaster. - It's a legal loaded weapon of Jesus Christ man. - Well, he said he was gonna throw it in a river. That was his plan at some point to throw it in a river. - Okay. - Not to dismantle it. - Does it not have a fucking serial number on a salvage? Jesus Christ. - Throw it in a river. - Throw it in a river. When Peter Koenig, who's his employee and Sharon's boyfriend asked if he could have it 'cause he heard about it, he goes, "Well, don't throw it away, I'd like to have it." So yeah, Colin said that he found her to be honest, by the way, they were together for almost 10 years before she started fucking all of his employees and anyone she found online. - Very honest. - She called, yeah, and he called her honest, a timid person, two things she's not as honest or timid. That's one thing I'll say, who was afraid of violence. And yeah, also said that if a crime had been committed in relation to Bruce's death, it was definitely not Sharon's doing at all. He said there was no way Sharon could have put this together as she is a sheep. So he also called her a dummy on top of it, a follower. And by the way, Bruce has been arrested twice for drug trafficking once in 2009. And then again, he'll get arrested here coming up pretty soon for trafficking, which he owned the trucking company. Not Bruce, I'm sorry, Barry, Barry, Jesus Christ. - I was like, Jesus, he's stuffing it in the fucking sides of beef. - Everyone's got a B-name, they're all named Sharon. This is confusing, Barry, the ex-boyfriend. So they also, he said, one more thing though, I don't think she did it, she's a sheep, but she is also pretty prescient because about two weeks before the murder, before I heard about the murder on the news, she said, "I have a premonition "that there's going to be a terrible accident "and that someone's going to get hurt." - She's a dummy, that's true. - She said this exact quote, "They're going to be clearing a block, "clearing some land, and there's going to be an accident, "and someone will get hurt." - Wow, she should start a fucking-- - Super weird, it's like-- - It's surprising. - Her daughter, by the way, Rebecca, said that her mom was hysterical on the phone when Bruce died. She was incomprehensible and not making much sense, talking about an accident, but then the next morning at the house that Sharon's back at the house, yeah, she's at the house at Bruce's house, she brought his will out and they had some coffee and talked about his will very calmly. No longer hysterical, very calm. She says that Sharon had moved out of the main bedroom before Bruce was killed, but then that night that he was killed, she slept in the bed with Greg Roser. - Oh boy. - Yeah, pussy's for closers, and if you kill the guy, yeah. - She grieves real fast, you know? - She gets over things. - She should start a psychic place and also a therapy joint, because man, is she good at grieving? She could teach us something or two. - All of us, really, we all have something inside, we'd like to get off our chest. - There is me, Jesus. - And by the way, both guys, Peter and Greg, were saying to the daughter all day that about how reckless he was around that wood chipper all day. So the police then set up surveillance. They tap all everybody's phone and they put listening devices and fucking cameras in various parts of the home. - Wow. - 'Cause she doesn't own the fucking home. - Right, so they can do that, yeah. - They can just do it. They don't even need a warrant for this shit. Maybe they do, I don't know, the Australian laws, but-- - They don't stuff, but I don't know, if they got plenty of reason. - They're very suspicious, all three of these. The recordings vary from loud conversations where Sharon expresses that she had asked Bruce to lower his life insurance policy. I asked him to lower it, I didn't want all this money. Two, then, they would huddle up and whisper in the kitchen. They knew, yeah, it's fucking weird. Here are some of the tapes here. Sharon said, "Oh babe, I hope you haven't gone against him." This is her talking to Greg about Peter. And Greg said, "I have not, I fucking stuck up for him, "the whole fucking week, meaning talking to the cops." So she said, "Now, oh my God, "that's why we didn't want your story and his story, "not telling the same." You guys have to be on the same page here. So Greg told police that Bruce's death was an accident. He tried to save him, and he's been reckless all day. And Greg told Sharon, "I told him that story. "I didn't panic, I didn't panic." He then said, "I felt like I was being incriminated. "It's guilty until proven innocent, that's how I felt. "I haven't done anything wrong." This is, by the way, when they were on the phone, they go, "Do you think the phones are tapped?" And one of them said, "Do I look like a mind reader to you? "How the fuck do I know?" Literally, that's what they said. - She is. - Yeah. We know she is, she's very prescient. So he then said, "This is amazing. "How dare they insinuate that I killed the guy. "That's terrible. "It made me feel really bad." Oh, I'm sorry. He said, "The longer I was kept there, "I knew the truth prevailed. "I was getting stronger because I told the truth, "but it's terrible how they treat you." And then Sharon told him that obviously, "It's terrible that you have got to go through all this, "and you wouldn't wish it on anybody," she said to him. What a shame. And he said, "That's what the police do, "and it's really wrong. "The law is wrong. "It's not fair that they do that because it's an accident. "It's bad enough that we have lost a mate." - What a victim. - Oh, I lost my friend here. So then Sharon tells him that the police don't have any evidence. She says, "You were left holding the bag "because you were working with the person, "but that does not mean to say anything happened "other than that. "It was an accident. "I don't know you well, but in the time I've known you, "you are not a bloke to harm people or shit on people. "They don't have any evidence, they're just assuming." - Okay. - Then, out of nowhere, she says, "I think we are going back to back off on the text messages "as in loving and warm shit. "Just back it off a bit." In other words, it looks bad when, you know, this whole thing. - Don't tell him that you love me because that looks horrible. - And then, but then he tells her, "I love you for who you are. "You have a beautiful heart. "I just want you in my life, that's it." Then there's another recording where she, Sharon, says to Greg, "I'm not accusing you. "I'm reading out loud what's been said to me by Peter." And then she said, "That means they've told Peter, "you've said blah, blah, blah, blah, and Peter's gone, "and Peter's gone, and that ain't fucking true. "So something's going to happen." And they're saying that the cops are trying to turn you and Peter against each other, chill the fuck out. Then she says to him, Sharon, to Greg, "You have actually incriminated yourself "to be put on charges, which is totally not right. "So what's happening now, you need to tell a lawyer, "I fucked up with my statements because the day of it happening, "I have a total block. "Something has blocked my head. "I wonder why, I wonder, "it's a wonder I was even able to give a statement." Just to dummy up is what she told him. - Yeah, forget. - Yeah, so he said there was inconsistencies about where he said he was when he first saw Bruce and the Chipper, that's the thing. Inconsistencies from when the cops first got there to when he was interviewed. So then Sharon reminds him that police could not find footprints where he claimed he stood, and in his bid to save him from the Chipper. And she then says, "That's definitely caught you. "Like, that's a thing." And Greg replies, "I fucked up there. "I fucked up there." Then he said, "I'm about 90 percent. "I'm about 90 percent. "I did not put one foot on the tailgate at all. "I tried to pull him out while I was standing on the ground. "Then Sharon whispers, "If you put your foot up, "you are bracing yourself to pull stronger. "That's why you would have put your foot there." - Yeah. - And then she said, "In shock, "you would say a lot of things that were not right." Yeah, and then he blames the cops. He said, "Well, because you know, "what they do is they interrupt you all the time, "and if it fucks you all up, that's what it is." - Yeah, that's the idea. - He said, "I had in my mind something, "and then the police started talking, "and that's what he kept doing to me." Yes, he's a homicide detective. That's their job. - He investigated, and it's not fair. - It's super weird. I would lie, and then he'd go, "That's not true." And then I'd have to figure another lie out. It was really complicated, too much. Then they started looking up the side effects for his pain medication. Greg tells Sharon that one causes dizziness and lightheadedness, one of his medications. And he said, "You can't judge things. "You can't judge distances. "It throws you out." Then Sharon tells Greg to approach his doctor and say the medication's serious side effects had led to confusing police statements. - Okay. - Then she discovers that they're reading the medications withdrawal symptoms, not there. It's only if you don't take it. - Now their pharmacist. - So she says, "Okay, what's the next drug you want to look up?" And he says, "Okay, here we go, this one. "I've got one that it says disorientation is one of the things." So she asks, and this is how dumb she is, "What's disorientation mean?" - You're disoriented, babe. - You're a fucking dummy. It means exactly what's going on in your brain right now. - Right now you know that feeling you're feeling? That's it. - That's the one? - Yeah, he says it means you can't make decisions. You get really confused about things. You don't know where you are and you can't judge things. And she says the doctor has to put all that in writing for you. Then she tells him another time that I don't want to be in my house anymore. I can't stay here, meaning Bruce's house. You have no idea what happened this week. I can't talk to you on the phone. Scary shit. And then she talks to him about it on the phone. - I got it though. She said, "I've got people putting paperwork in my letterbox "like the Ten Commandments." And Greg says, "The Ten Commandments." And she says, "Yeah, thou shalt not kill. "I'll show it to you." Somebody put a note in her mailbox that said, "Thou shalt not kill." - Well, maybe she's got Jehovah's around that. - Yeah, it's a guilty conscience. - Yeah. - And he says, "What the fuck?" And then there's another one where they talk about the possibility that the police are on to them. Greg asks, "Aren't the phone's going to be tapped?" And she says, "I don't know, I'm not a mind reader." Then they also recorded Graham Roser and Canig having secret meetings inside a parked car inside the Sanders garage. - Oh, there he is. - So they thought the house was bugged too, so they went and sat in a car. Like they're in the mafia. That's what that is. Turn the radio up real loud. Jesus, so the listening device from inside the house picked up Sharon directing the two of them to meet her in the car. She said, "You'll have to come to the car 'cause they'll know something." - Uh-oh. - Oh, and Roser had also talked to his neighbor, Joan Balfour, at the caravan park. And he told her-- - He told Taylor trash about this? - He said that this is before this all the murder happened. He told her that he'd gotten a small handgun from his girlfriend's friend, meaning Peter. And this woman, Joan Balfour, said she'd never met the girlfriend or knew her name, but it's seen a blonde woman, Sharon's blonde visiting Roser. She said that Roser revealed the gun was in the boot of his car, the trunk for you non-Australian or English, when they met for lunch the next day. Roser told her that his girlfriend had provided an address and times to lay in wait and shoot her partner. - Holy. - This woman said, "I just said don't do it, it's stupid." And before we finished the conversation, he agreed with me and he wasn't gonna do it. And okay, all that property owner's granddaughter, Kira Lee-Bayton, also, she says that she was involved in a conversation at the home where I guess this woman said that she recalls Sharon laughing while she was texting with Bruce while he was still alive, saying that he's trying to win her back and calling him pathetic. And also saying, "But then she'd go, he's pathetic, but he's more stable than Greg." - Okay. - Just remember, Greg's a whack job. - Yeah. - But then the woman said that Sharon said that she didn't want to be with him but he had money, meaning Bruce. And she also, Sharon said to this lady, "It's not my fault that Bruce loves me and wants to give me everything." And because he's older, I thought she was a couple of years older, apparently he's the two years older, he would probably die first and she'd get everything. - Oh God. - Okay, so that's very interesting. 2018, the trio is arrested, all three of them, after all the recordings and everything like that. Their lawyers say they should get bail. - Really? - They say this is a largely circumstantial case. They should all get bail. There's very little evidence and submission that makes any case against anybody here, really. So, their conduct prosecutor says their conduct reveals a preparedness to collaborate and concoct evidence to assist them in escaping detection of the authorities. Yeah, they've been doing that. The stories given to authorities are a falsehood and the inference that could be drawn is that they were all complicit. Why would they all lie unless they were all in on it? Prosecution wants separate trials for all of them. - Really? - Yes, they said that they give them to, that would be where it is just so much evidence that you need to put out in front of your minds, especially when some of the evidence is prejudicial that to ask you to give the case a separate consideration would be asking you to perform impossible mental gymnastics if they were all tried to get it. - Keep them all together then. And it's also too easy for each one to blame the other. - That's it, that's all it is. So, four years go by, wow. Finally, Peter flips. - Really? - Peter says fuck it, yep. He says that, yep, he tells him everything that happened. He said that the, originally he had said that the droplets of blood came from a wound. He suffered from a tree branch. The cop said the blood doesn't magically appear there and all that kind of thing. So, he ends up spilling the whole thing. All the quotes of I was walking, I hit the stop button. Those were all, you know, Peter's quotes. He also talks about that gun. She is saying that Sharon knew he had a 22 handgun. And when they met in the hotel, she asked me if I still had it. And I said, yes, she wanted to give it to Greg Roser to shoot rabbits. I gave them the gun in the ammo in the carrier bag. The gun was loaded with six bullets. They gave it back after maybe a fortnight. And one of them said the gun was too noisy and there was two shots missing. So loud gun. Also, she wanted to kill somebody else too. Yeah, there was another person that she wanted to kill possibly that they were talking about. Yes, a possible boyfriend. That was also in the mix. He said that she was Peter said, "I just agreed with it to keep her happy." Yep, that was another boyfriend from before. And Peter said, "I said I would do it, but then I never did." He said, "I didn't never do it. He's still alive today." That's good news. So Greg's trial comes up and he seems the most fucked out of everybody because Peter's testifying. He did this. He said, "I've killed him." You know, all those quotes and all of that shit. Greg testifies on his own behalf. And he basically says they ask him, "Did they say why Bruce Sanders needed to be killed?" And Greg said he was annoying Sharon, plus he had heaps of money. I told them I wasn't going to be in on it. They said, "What does she want you to do? They wanted me to shoot Bruce. What did you say? I'm not going to do it is what I said." So they found all of that. They talk about the notes and they said, "Look, the notes tie you to Sharon and tie you to Bruce." You're fucked. You're fucked, my friend. He said, Greg said that Sharon would ask him to murder Bruce. He'd say, "No." She'd stop talking to him. Then a week later she'd be all nice again. Fuck him and then say, "So you want to kill Bruce?" And then we'd start the cycle over. It's crazy. So the verdict comes in guilty. And sentencing you, sir, may fuck off life in prison for Greg. Yeah, that's not good. Sharon's trial. Okay. So the prosecutor says that Sharon had to make a choice between two men and two lifestyles, between Bruce Sanders, a decent man who owned a home, had a job and would do anything for her, compared to Greg Roser, a man who struggled to make ends meet, who lived in a caravan park, and whose relationship with her was tumultuous. She chose the bad boy, the aggressive one, the one who challenged her. Bruce wasn't good enough for her, but one thing about Bruce was good enough for her, his money. You bet. And the defense is those guys are liars. That's not true. That's it. Guys are super big liars. And but also her friend, the property owner, talks she testifies against her, granddaughter testifies against her. Everybody does. They show horrible pictures of fucking scattered human remains with legs sticking out. They put the notes in there. And in the notes, they say it was all in his handwriting, but how would he know any of that unless Sharon told us? She doesn't know fucking Bruce. So it shows that they had worked together, and her ex testifies against her. Verdict comes in here. Here we go. She is found guilty as well. Yep. And sentencing, Blake, the son, said you, Sharon Graham, or an evil person. Yeah, you sat next to me and let me rub your leg, you bitch. Well, that's what he says. He says, "My dad was a forgiving man. I'm also forgiving, but I'll never forgive you." He said, "At the funeral, I offered my arm to you in an act of support. Little did I know you planned orchestrated and covered up my father's murder." Wow. Then you requested my dad's ashes be split in half, so you could keep half of them. You are a despicable human being. I lost my mum to breast cancer. You took the last most important part of my life from me. There's one thing that brings me comfort. It's that my dad's now with my mum. Atta, boy, Blake. Wow. Yeah, it's a good one. The judge says, quote, here we go. This is a good user here. You ma'am. No words. There are no words for the likes of you. Yeah. That's a bad way to start from a judge. So scummy. Even if there were, I do not wish to detract in any way from the statements, which have eloquently described the real horror of what you did in the profound impact it has had and will continue to have. You decided to murder Bruce Sanders and devise a plan with Rosar to enter into your home where you were living in the wee hours of the morning and shoot him in his bedroom. That plan was to be carried out when you were interstate, meaning in Adelaide. You thought better of that plan and you and Rosar, no doubt, dominated by you, cooked up another plan to shoot him in the car park behind his place of work. When that opportunity arose to carry out the murder in a different way, at a remote place, you pursued that with gusto and you pressured Rosar and to some extent, caning to do so. By my observation, you have displayed all the hallmarks of a deep-seated psychopath. And if at any point the authorities seriously consider your release, I ask that they keep that observation and rely upon it, you ma'am. May fuck off. Life in prison for you. (laughing) That's it, as she's being let out of court, someone from the gallery yelled, "You filthy animal!" Which is great. Fucking homelander right there. Awesome. Keep the change. You can keep the change. So there you go, her property owner friend there, by the way, called said quote, "She is a pure evil woman. It's as simple as that to take someone's life like that and plan it and execute it." Peter, by the way, ends up getting you, sir. May not fuck off. Suspended sentence. You're fine. Go home. What? Nothing. He got nothing. He got let out on bail. Yeah. As soon as he said that he would testify and they gave him ugots. No prison time. Thanks for testifying. Enjoy that crazy pussy you got for a little bit. Wow. Enjoy your life. Wow. There you go. There's Guma Mara Babuna or whatever the fuck it's called. Enjoy everybody. That's fucking hilarious. Wow, got it. It's insane. You can absolutely participate. Oh, it's okay. Help stuff him in there. Holy shit. So there you go. I hope you like that. We did. You might be using computer lights to Peter, goddamn it. Okay. Anytime, if you go to Australia, watch out. If you see a truck whizzing by, make sure to get back from the road. See the Broncos game there, Peter. That's it. See you at the game, buddy. Wow. There you go. If you like that show, please get on whatever app you're on and give us five stars and say something nice. It really helps out a lot. Shut up and give me murder.com's the site. Tickets for live shows there. September 20th. Minneapolis State Theater. Catch your tickets there. Shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com/crimeandsports. All the bonus stuff you could possibly want for $5 a month. Well, it's tons of it there. This week, we have for crime and sports. Two most penalized games of hockey in history. We're going to watch a bunch of fights and go, "Holy shit, that guy's already toothless. Why is he doing this?" Then for small-time murder, internet salad. You can hear us just talk about current events and kind of talk off the cuff like we do when you're not around. So that'll be a lot of fun. patreon.com/crimeandsports. Social media. We are @smalltimemurder on Instagram @murdersmallon Twitter @smalltownpodd on Facebook. Follow us. Keep hanging out with us and keep coming back. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. [Music] If you like small-town murder, you can listen early and ad-free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. 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