(upbeat music) - Welcome to Star Trek Discovery Pod. I am Lieutenant Commander Clyde Haines, sitting in the big chair, while our illustrious captain is taking a little R&R. And with me as always, I'm Paul Satatchit, your chief morale officer, ready to abandon ship. I'll hand the band and ship. - Oh, well, I'm so glad that we get to do another pod. This week is gonna be great. This week, we are gonna do a little deep dive into who is Paul Satatchit. - Oh, wow, that is gonna be brief. (laughing) - Oh, it's gonna be a great time, Paul. It's gonna be a great time. This is gonna be podcast gold here. - Okay, well, podcast platinum, everyone. Gold press platinum. This is gonna be, you know, this is what's gonna be-- - That's what this is. If you're in the chat, we're glad that you could be with this. Paul, why don't you tell people how to check us out, where they can check us out, and what specials that they can do to hang out with us? - Oh, well, yeah, great. That is gonna be tough, because I don't have that part pulled up. (laughing) - See what happens when we don't have our captain here, guys. - I mean-- - First of all, like, I think it's clear that everyone should follow our podcast, right? - Yes. - That can be done at, what can be done at Clyde? - It can be done at Star Trek DiscoveryPod.co. - Uh-huh. - Yes. - And if you like us and you want us to help support us, definitely not by the strength of this episode, because our captain in the here, but maybe consider joining our Patreon for just $2 an episode at Star TrekPod/ that's where if you wanna hang out with the Star Trek, yeah, come hang out with us. And for just $2 an episode, you have access to our private members-only jackets. Now, our private members-only Slack, where we chop it up and talk about all things Trek, yes, like Takako is in the chat. She's one of our podcasts, like our Patreon like members. She hangs, she holds us down kind of on Slack channels. - And since we're doing a deep dive on Paul, if you have any questions you might have for me, feel free to type in the chat. W, no, no, capital H, capital P for a hot Paul. (laughs) - There you go. - And like we'll answer that. - Yes. - Yeah, so just, yeah, you can subscribe, rate us review on Apple and Spotify, hang out at Star TrekPod.co, is where you can find all of our information, our links and our, everything. - Cool beans. - Yeah, it's gonna be a rough one. Hopefully, Mariah's not listening, otherwise she's like- - But when she is, where are we gonna get dressed? - Cool, man, you have no idea. If you're trying to figure out where we are next week on the pod, Paul and I are gonna be in the brig. Mariah's gonna do the show solo because we have, we are a whole three minutes in and we have fumbled everything. - Yeah, warp core breach, everyone, warp core breach. - Yes, I started out as a tuning commander next week, I'm gonna be in the instant. (laughs) All right, so yeah, let's jump in, but before we do that, let's just, I don't know, I does feel like it's time for a- - Happy Birthday! (upbeat music) (screams) (upbeat music) - I mean, we call it hot for X, but it's definitely hot, Paul, this week. So Paul, it's fantastic. We've been doing the pod since episode one. If you've been with this, you know that we've had some, the crew has changed a little bit here and there. And so this is, I feel like, Paul, you're able to jump in and really, I don't know, like really take a hold of this new season, this new experience with us. But I don't know that we ever really got a chance to- - Yeah. - Jump in and understand your history with treks. I can't wait to ask you some questions. - Oh, that's awesome. I think I jumped in, was it four season of discovery? Is that right? - Yeah, this sounds about right. - Or was it strange new worlds? I don't know, but it seemed like, you know, how long have we been doing this? Maybe I've been doing it for two years already? - Three years, maybe. - Three, I think. - Okay, wow. - Maybe two. - That was. - Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, I was talking to somebody this weekend, they were asking me about Trek and we were having a discussion about, you know, kind of prestige TV and peak TV and there was this whole notion of like, well, maybe, you know, they have a story, they tell the story and it ends. And I was like, yeah, when it comes to Star Trek, I don't really get that feeling. It really feels like we needed at least another season. - Probably two. - Yeah, yeah. - And so to your point, I love Trek. It's been going on for a while. They run together and I love it. So you jumped in and I was like, hey, Paul feels like you've been here since day one. - It's a new season with Paul, you know, I'm the seven of nine edition. - Oh, speaking of which, I have some trivia for you as we kind of get into who you are. Paul, why don't you start with, just tell us a little bit about yourself, right? And I'd love to start with kind of understanding how you got into Trek. Like what was your first introduction into Star Trek? - Okay, so I was born in old ago and my dad used to watch Star Trek. And now he only watched three things. He watched Mash, Star Trek, and Golf. And I was not a very big golf person. And I did watch Mash, you know, but the thing that was very interesting to me was Star Trek, partly because, you know, people flying around the universe getting into adventures. And, you know, and it seemed very fun, you know, and Pew Pew lasers here and there, Pew Pew aliens, you know, it just seemed like a great way to watch some TV and, you know, hang out with my dad a little bit, you know, like we didn't have a lot of overlap as far as what we liked. So this was one of those overlaps. So there you go, that's how I started. Question? - Yeah, I'm just curious. This was the original series, I'm assuming. - This is, yes, this is the original series, yes. - Okay, what kind of impact or how did that, watching that with your dad, how did that influence you? - Yeah, so I think a lot of people, I think find, like they find like a TV show that really speaks to them. And so in the 70s, like what I found was there wasn't a lot of Asian dudes on TV. And like you might think that like, oh, I relate to Sulu. And on some hands, I do, but the person I relate most to was Spock because he was kind of an outsider in this world of humans and as much as he was adored and integrated into the crew, he was always a part. And I felt like that really spoke to my immigrant experience in America, like a kid. So like, I don't know much, I just feel like he was the person I gravitated to. He seemed to be the level-headed person all the time. And I feel in general, aside from my craziness, I'm pretty level-headed. So like, and it's pretty funny because this is a similar experience to my wife. She watched Star Trek with her dad and she imprinted, like the person I wanna be with is gonna be a little bit like Spock. And I am fairly logical and cold-hearted. And so like, 23 years later, we're still married. - That is fantastic, man. Yeah, I mean, I too, it's interesting how often I hear parents exposing their kids to Star Trek and it just clicks, right? I'm still trying to do that with my kids. You know, we're gonna talk about prodigy in a couple of weeks. That didn't work out the way I thought it was going to, but I'm not gonna give up. - It's a very interesting thing. Like I had this conversation yesterday with someone and it was very grim and pessimistic partly 'cause the presidential debates partly because like the upcoming debates or the debates now and probably because he's about 20 years younger than me. And he just seemed to have a much more pessimistic view of the world. And one of the things I came to realize was like, "Oh, I bet he doesn't watch Star Trek." Not because like, you know, you watch Star Trek and you're not pessimistic. I don't know, but I think like Star Trek has a fairly optimistic view of, you know, the world and the future, like it by, you know, by its start, like, you know, in original series. Basically, we solved it. You know, it starts off like we solved it and here we are in adventures. And I think there's an aspect about Star Trek that really spoke to me as a kid that like, oh, the troubles that we've had, like we solved. And so like like the woes that we're in now, like, you know, like even in my mind it goes, they are overcomable. You know, and so I think Star Trek tends to attract optimistic people. I think so, you know, that's just-- - No, I agree. - Like, you know, so I think that's one of the reasons why the show, you know, like I watched Star Trek next generation, I watched the animated series. Like, you know, I've watched all the Star Trek's. And, you know, and for all of it, like it all really is, very, like, possible future forward. You know? Like they're great shows that are darker. Like, you know, I love Balstar Galactica. But Balstar Galactica could be a bummer. - I mean, it does have a certain, I mean, it's, the thing that's different is Balstar Galactica is more it's end of the world, right? So it's definitely much more apocalyptic and, but it's also like, it's much more of a Western in the terms of, we've got to find a new place to live and we've got to settle and there's a lack of resources and we've got to overcome these problems where Star Trek is, to your point, I mean, I love the way you said that is, we solved it, right? Hunger, we solved, greed, we solved, right? Racism, we solved, sexism, we solved it. And now we're going out and explore. - Yeah, I mean, like, I wish more people could relate to that. Like, you know, and I guess my question for you is, do you feel like your kids are optimistic in that way? - Not yet, my one is, my son, I think is. My daughter is much more like, I don't know. That's a good question. He will probably eat up Star Trek. She's, I think I have to catch her on the right move, but I think for her, you know, you talk about representation and why it matters. And for me, much like you, I was introduced Star Trek through my mother, my mother, you know, one of the things that I know how I know Star Trek is great is because what would happen for me is, my mother would be sitting on a Saturday afternoon watching Star Trek and I would be headed like out of the house. And I pass her and I'd stop and look and I never made it out of the house, right? - That's beautiful, that's beautiful. - And I would kind of annoy her 'cause I was like, okay, wait, 'cause, you know, you jump in, there's no DVR, you can't pause, you can't go back. So I gotta get caught up, like, okay, well, who's that? Okay, well, okay, why are they doing that? Okay, what happened? Like, and she's like, boy, if you don't just sit down and watch, like, like, I'm messing it up for her. But I think that that was my introduction, but it was Geordie in the next generation that I was like, oh, this is different. Like, he felt like me, not, he's not the captain, right? He's cool, but he's kind of awkward, right? Like, that felt like, oh, you know, and so I think for my daughter, what she hasn't been exposed to yet, my daughter is incredible. She's a voracious reader, but what she's drawn to are stories with strong female leads, right? So you ask her, is she really into, like, Harry Potter? No, 'cause it's a lot about Harry, right? Like, she wants strong female leads. And so I think when we start getting into things like, Voyager, we get into discovery, I think she might be more interested in kind of, that might be, even though it's much later and it's not starting at the beginning, that might be something that she's more interested in. So we'll see, I'll keep trying. All right, next question for you, Paul. I got a bunch of them. I'll toss you a softball one. - Softball. - What Star Trek series or movie is your favorite and why? - Favorite. - I think the best storytelling of Star Trek is Deep Space Nine. I think, like, it's my favorite, you know, by a large margin because in a way, this is like the fringe of utopia, you know, like where you're on an outpost on the edge of, you're not even in the Federation space. You're this invited occupying force and you're trying to, like, say, hey, we're the Federation, we're good, hang out with us. Whereas people may be like, okay, maybe, maybe not. But what was really, what made me really like Deep Space Nine was that it had a real war. And what it did was it goes like, oh, you have utopia. How much, you know, how much can you stay true to yourself with your survival at stake? You know, especially in the later seasons between five, six, and seven. Like, you know, like, my favorite episode is like pale moonlight and where Cisco basically tricks the Romulans into joining the war. Millions of Romulans die because of Cisco, by the way. Like, he talked about war crimes. (laughing) But like, you know, in that way, like, you could see, he's going like, oh, in order to save paradise, I have to be a little bit of a demon. And it's, but you know, but he doesn't like, what's the word I wanna use? He doesn't feel nefarious. Like, everything is done with like this consideration. You know, like, so I really like that kind of morality play with, you know, still the optimism. You know, I think that's, I think that's really interesting. Like, I've always drawn to Star Trek because of that. Like, you know, like Voyager is a very similar thing where it goes, okay, we're on our own. Can we, can we be ourselves and not die? You know, and then there was an episode of Voyager, a two-parter, like the Equinox, where there was another crew that was brought over and they basically kept on breaking the Prime Directive, doing everything they could to get back. And it was just a real interesting juxtaposition. As far as movies, like, I would say Wrath of Khan, I think that's a very easy-- - It's an easy answer. - Yeah, yeah, but I think what I really like about Khan was that it drew from the original series as far as, you know, here is like, their ramifications for Kirk being Kirk, you know? - Yeah, I think what you're getting at is, when you think about Star Trek The Motion Picture, that was a long TV episode. - Yeah, and it was new, it was a continuation, but it was just a long episode. Whereas Khan, and I guess I would say, you didn't really have to have watched a series to see The Motion Picture, right? - I think like the people who did The Motion Picture for all of it didn't really understand what made Star Trek Star Trek. You know, I think-- - Okay, what makes Star Trek Star Trek? - I think, you know, there is that, like, I feel like a lot of, a lot of sci-fi tends to be cold. You know, I think, you know, you think of a lot of movies that deal with science fiction, not science fantasy, but science fiction. You know, because like, here's people in the future in space, and space tends to be very a hard place to shoot and, you know, blah, blah, blah. But with Star Trek, ultimately, there is this part about it that I think really comes through. Like, and it doesn't need to be like, oh, I love everyone, but like, there's a personfulness about it. Like, you know, for all of it, like, if you watch the original series and next gen, it's just like an hour-long sitcom. It's like a soap, right? You know, like, if you even watch next generation, like the end music of like episodes or it feels very-- - Yeah. - Yeah, and then there's a little quip between bones and Spock and, you know, and like, it's all very somewhat cheesy, tongue and cheek kind of thing, in a way. And I think the universe of Star Trek and how it's presented in most of its forms really have that kind of, like, soul-hugging kind of quality to it. Like, you know, like, I use Balstar Galactica as a counterpoint. Like, you know, Balstar Galactica makes you feel spent. Like, you know, makes you feel like, oh, wow, we did it. Oh, my God, oh, like, you know, like, I can't believe we-- Oh, my God, Domino was killed, you know? The chief or blum, you know, it's just all very-- - There's a lot of movement, right? There's a lot of-- like, I don't want to use the word action, but there's a lot of motion, right? Like, if you think about Balstar Galactica a year, like, you have the countdown clock and you've got the sign lines coming. Like, it's constantly-- everybody's moving. When you think about Star Trek, it's slow, right? Like, it's really-- like, it's really about the-- it's talky, there's a lot of walking, there's a lot of talking, there's a lot of discussion, and it's super character-driven, right? - And another thing that-- like, I remember during the release of "Next Gen," and I think "Next Gen" really changed what "Star Trek" was in a really-- like, any evolved kind of way. Like, the writers were saying, and, you know, and ultimately, every episode is a commentary or a moral about what it is to be human or people and stuff like that. And so, ultimately, like, you know, even with great advances in technology or blah, blah, blah, they're really reaffirming, you know, what goodness is. Does that make sense? So, and that goodness is like that optimism that I talk about. Like, you know, and I think it's just a really positive show, generally. - Great. All right, we're gonna get some more questions with Paul, but before we do that, we're gonna ask Paul a few trivia questions. - Trivia, uh-oh, I'm gonna-- - Yes, all right. So, Paul, this first section is really about-- I'm gonna give you a quote and give you a hint if you need it, but I'll give you a quote, and I want you to see if you can tell me the series-- - Oh, wow. - --if you can give me the episode or-- and who-- the episode is bonus. But I'm looking for the series, the character who said it, and for bonus points, you can get-- if you know the episode, okay? - They're, like, a lot of episodes to start writing. - There's a lot of episodes. - Yeah. - So, here we go. First quote-- - Yeah. - "Survival is insufficient." - "Survival, uh, that-- oh, "survival's insufficient." - "I don't know, man. Is that Voyager?" - "It is Voyager." - "Is that Seven of Nine?" - "It is Seven of Nine." - "Uh, like, uh, yeah, I don't know which episode." - "That's okay. It's Season 6, episode 2, "Survival Instinct." - "Okay, okay." - "All right. We'll do a couple more and then we'll get back." - "I don't know much." - "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." - "All right. Next quote." - "Yep." - "Time is the fire in which we burn." - Like, I believe that is in Generations. I think that is Sauron or whatever his name was. - "Sorry, yes." - "Sorry, sorry, sorry." And, like, I think it was in "Ten Forward," talking to Picard. And, because, like, you know, who the hell says that? - "Yes. When I read it, you can almost hear him saying it, 'cause he's the only person who would say it." - "What the hell is that? Like, you know, that's a weird thing to say when you're having a drink with someone." - "It is." - "All right. I'll give you one more. Here's, uh, like, I got a bunch of these." - "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." - "Here's a quote. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end." - "I believe that is Spock speaking in Star Trek 6 when he's talking to Samantha from Sex and the City." - "Close. This was actually Star Trek the next generation, season 5, episode 7, but it was unification, but it was spoken by Spock." - "Well, actually, if you go, uh, if you go back to Star Trek 6 which predicated unification, that's where he first said it." - "That's where he first said it. Okay. All right. Nice. All right. Let's get back into some questions. I got a whole bunch. I got quotes. - "Okay, okay. We can play a game." - "Stained description. I've got, like, I've got characters." - "That's fine. Yeah, that's fine." - "Okay. All right. Next question." - "I'm no boiler." - "But you're pretty good. You are pretty good. All right. Let's see. So, you know, we talk a little bit about, you know, you said things like optimism. You talk about kind of influences. How has your perspective on Star Trek changed over the years, right? We've got, like, a lot, like, you've grown up with Trek. Trek has evolved. The world has changed. How has your perspective on Trek changed and evolved over the years?" - Like, I really... Like, it's interesting how, like, how should I say it the best way? Like, Trek, when Trek survives, it survives because it kind of either leads or speaks to the decade that it's in. For example, like, you know, when the original series came out, like, it's in the 70s, right? I think I'm thinking, like, ultimately, like, the idea is like, "Hey, we're the good guys and, you know, and we're going to leave everyone alone until we can't, and we're going to help out." Like, you know, there is that sense of, like, I don't want to say, like, benevolent imperialism, but, like, but, you know, but the idea of, like, "Oh, the good guys have to do something." You know, and so I really appreciated that as a foundational perspective, like, you know, in the 90s when NextGen and all the through, through Voyager, no, yeah, I don't know if Enterprise did this as well, but through Voyager, like, you know, there was a sense of, like, what is it to be a person? You know, a good human, a good society, all the, these kind of, like, philosophical questions that, you know, were at the core of all, of all the, not all the episodes, but, like, a lot of the episodes. And so the, like, questions about being, like, existence in some ways, you know, like, I remember one episode where I thought it was really interesting. It wasn't one of my favorite episodes, but it was, it, it's a, it's a Voyager episode where Cass gets, like, nearly killed in a cave and Janeway has to, basically, go through some trials and then, but maybe not. And it's also, basically a metaphor for faith, like, you know, like, hey, you know, just because you don't know or understand, doesn't mean that it isn't, you know, a thing. So, you know, and I think that's very interesting for a sci-fi show to talk about faith in that way, you know, and there are a whole bunch of other stuff, like, in, you know, in the early aughts, is that right? That's when Abraham came out. Like, you know, I think there is a, a sexifying of things, you know, like, like, like, Star Trek, you know, need not be in, in the realm of, like, sound state studios and something that, like, you know, you can have the camera move, you can have, you know, some really cinematic technique. And so it seemed like, like a young James Kirk driving a car off a cliff and yeah, like, like, and I think that was a, though, the time where you tried to make Star Trek hip. And that was also very interesting. Like, you know, like, there was a lot of, like, I remember in that era, you know, the world was like, oh, let's reinvent the stuff that we were like, oh, look, here, start skiing hutch or 21 Jump Street as a movie. The A team and all that stuff. Yeah, all that stuff to try to retell it in our own way. And like, this current era, like, I feel like there's like, ultimately, there is a chair, a sharing of power. Like, I used to be in growing up, like, the perspective was one person was going to say the day, it was going to be Captain Kirk, you follow him and he saves a day. And as the world gets bigger and more complicated, there's more a sense of team, like, you know, like that's why I feel like the fast and furious franchise does so well, because like, it's a bunch of people who are doing things. And yes, you know, Vin Diesel is the leader, but he doesn't, he's not like Kirk, you know, he can't do it without every single part of this, what ultimately is an incredibly diverse band of mitzvitz. Yes. That that actually contribute to the decisions. And so like, in like, if you watch, like, strange new worlds now, like, there are only so many episodes about Pike, you know, and he's effectively the lead. Whereas, like, if you were to look at, you know, TOS, like, there was like one or two episodes about Spock, one or two episodes about McCoy and one or two episodes about Scottie, there are no episodes about Sulu or Ohura or anyone else. Isn't there an episode about Sulu, where he, like, basically is high and walking around with a sword and no shirt on? He is high and he's walking around with no with a sword, but that's, you know, like the person who's saying story. Yeah. And I'm not even criticizing it. I'm saying like, you know, once upon a time, there was the hero person. And now there is the hero us. And so like, it's a very interesting, like, egalitarian place that we're in right now. Like, there have been more episodes about Laan than, like, you know, and for this, I am thankful. Yeah, yeah, I mean, like, she had a whole time travel episode with no Pike and, you know, like, like, it's Anna dry hot dog. Yeah, yeah. And welcome to a hot dog chat. Yes. That's right. We talk about you think we talk about peanut hamper. We talk about hot dogs more than we talk about peanut hamper. Yeah. And so I think what it is, is that like you watch Star Trek survive, you know, it's just like hope and optimism, like, you know, it always survives. It just reinvents itself in a different way. So yeah, you go. Why do you think we had such a big gap with no trick? I think, you know, first and foremost, I think, I'll just say in the best way. I think after the second JJ Abrams movie, I think people go like, Oh, was that a fluke? The first Star Trek, you know, Abrams Star Trek? I think it was fun. But, you know, I don't know if people love the second one. And I don't know if people love the third one. And so I think for all of it, they didn't know what to do with it. They didn't know how to make it. What do you call it? What sort of one you use? Like, they didn't know if the audience wanted that. But like when Paramount went and decided, you know what, we are going to launch Paramount Plus, you know, who do we know that will come to watch this? Who will pay to watch this? And, you know, it comes down to Trekkies, right? Yeah, Trekkers. Like, I'm a Trekkie person, like a Trekker to the sound right. No, I'm a Trekkie. Yeah. And so like, I remember once upon time in Hollywood, it used to be like, Oh, if you want to save money to, you want a movie that was going to make its money, invest in the Star Trek movie, that didn't work when Tom Hardy joined in nine. But like, I'm not blaming Tom Hardy. I'm just thinking that that sounds like you're blaming Tom Hardy. Well, you know, but like, so I think it was fairly a safe choice for Paramount to go like, Oh, let's, let's, let's make a Star Trek that these people will have a base audience that will come and pay to see this. So I just think that they didn't like between between darkness into darkness and and discovery. I just think they didn't really know. And when you say don't really know, like, we're talking about like, Oh, here's two years where we don't know what to do with it. And then like, Oh, we're going to do this. And then it's going to take another X years to develop. So like, there was a gap of a few years where they didn't know how to proceed. Okay. All right. One more question, then we'll get some more trivia. Okay. Paul, do you have a favorite Star Trek character? And if so, what makes them stand out? And I'm talking the entire catalog. Sure, sure, sure, sure. I think the easy things to say are data or Spock. But, but if I really think about who my favorite character is, it's nog. And that's not joke. That's why I got to hear this. I wouldn't know why. Because nog has the biggest arc in, you know, the show, in all the shows. Like, he starts off as like, you know, not to be racist, this conniving little fringy kid. And then like, he, he goes like, in real life, like, you know, this is like, so like Star Trek, you know, so Federation, like, they, he sees, he sees Cisco and through the Federation's presence on D space nine, he goes like, Oh, this is what I want to be because my culture, I'm, I'm never going to be anything. All I have is my tenacity in my hands. I don't have the lobes to make platinum. And so in that way, like, you know, he, I mean, it's effectively the American immigrant story, where he goes, like, Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna come to America. So I, because my culture can't, can't hold my dreams. And he goes from like, he goes from like, like, fringy kid to cadet to war hero. Like, I mean, and eventually he becomes like a captain. So, I mean, like, he, because he's the first fringy in Starfleet. I mean, it's, like, it sounds like I'm joking, but like, you know, he really is the embodiment of like, what the Federation stands for. I mean, that's not weird. Like, you know, I mean, No, I mean, it doesn't. I mean, he is, especially when you think about where he ultimately ends up. And what is it, a lower decks? Does he, do we see, where's he end up with a lower deck? He's, he basically is like running. He's the nagus, right? Like, that that's, that's, that's not knock, that's wrong. Ron has a good arc, too. But like, you know, he married well. He does. He does. But but that's his dad. But like, you know, but, but no, no, no, I guess he's really, like my, my favorite. I think in some ways, he has like one of my favorite acting moments in All Star Trek in an episode called Heart of Stone. So basically, this is where he asks Cisco to sponsor him to go into Starfleet. And like, when eventually Cisco goes, like, here's your money back. I don't need to be tricked by you because it's not a trick. And you know, and, you know, and Cisco, you know, just badgers him and says, like, you know, so why do you want to do? You got to tell me why and he explains why and it is like beautiful and tear jerking. And you know, and it is so true. It's like, they really like, I feel really, I was like, when Michael Jackson died, I was like, okay. And I think a lot of people like really, when Prince died, okay. When, when George Michael died, I was like, oh, that's sad. But when, when, you know, when the actor played nag died, I don't know why. Like, I was like, oh, that's really, I was, I was a little, I wouldn't say devastated. But I was like, oh, that's, that's a real, that's a real sad thing. Because he did, I feel like he did a really good job. Aaron Eisenberg. Aaron, that's right. There we go. Yeah. I mean, I, I hear you. I mean, I think one of the other interesting things about kind of nag as a character is he sees, he's done something that is, I think we, we want to think of it as very American. Yeah. But it's also very heroic is that he pursued a noble profession against the wishes of his family. Yeah. Right. And like, like an incredibly, no, it's like, not only did he pursue his passion, but his passion was noble, joining Starfleet. And it's the exact thing that none of, no one in his family wanted for him. Yeah, no, like he, it cost him a lot. It cost him a lot in order to, to do what he wanted to do. And Kyung is absolutely right. Like he was great in Paper Moon, by the way. Like, I, I love that episode. I watch it. I mean, like, anytime I'm depressed, like I always find myself in season, you know, in either, in the great episode, like five, six or seven of, of, of, you know, of the Space Nine, and it, and like, invariably, I have a, no, I get a certain there. Okay. All right. Let's do a couple more. Let's do some heavier questions. All right. Let's see. Do you want to do quotes? Do you want to do scene descriptions or character descriptions? Well, we already did quotes. Let's, let's, let's do dealer's choice. You, you pick. All right. Let's go with scene descriptions. All right. I'm going to read you as a description of a scene. See if you can tell me what series, what show it came from, and who was in the scene. Okay. Wow. That's, that's, that's okay. I'm not even asking you episode. I'm just asking you. Great, great, great. What series and who was in the scene? A starship captain faces all. Star Trek. I gives his alter ego from an alternate universe and a tense and dramatic confrontation. A star Trek captain faces his alter ego in an ultra, from an alternate dimension. Alternate universe, alternate universe, in a tense and dramatic confrontation. Huh. I mean, I feel like it's Kirk versus Kirk when like, actually, no, that's not right. That's, that's he was split in half. No, that's it. That's it. He leaned into it. But, but he, but he didn't. That was an alternate dimension. I mean, wasn't that, it wasn't that mirror Kirk? No, like that, that one, like Kirk, but the transporter split Kirk into good Kirk and bad Kirk. I'm, I'm talking from mirror mirror. Uh, mirror mirror, uh, like they switch spots, right? So I thought they, I thought there was a confrontation between them kind of at the end. Uh, no, no, no. Okay. All right. Well, how about this one? Okay. Okay. Oh, this is this, this, okay. I'll go. This is, I like this one. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Great. Love it. A Borg drone experiences individuality for the first time, thanks to a malfunctioning neural transceiver. So a Borg drone. Uh, so I believe that's the one that you're referring to is a Star Trek next generation with Hugh, where he, where he's severed from the collective and Jody and Data find him and hilarity ensues. Yes. Well, it's one of my favorites because Hugh becomes a, a character who, I always wonder, when they originally wrote that script, did they think that they were going to get as much run out of Hugh as they ultimately got? I, I do not know. Like, I think Hugh was a great character. Like, yeah, I think, I think Picard did him dirty and, and, to me, there was no reason to kill him. There was absolutely no reason to kill him. That like, that felt, that felt just wasteful. That just felt absolutely wasteful. Like, yeah, uh, it's rough, it's rough. Right. Okay. Uh, let's see. Okay. A young Starfleet officer undergoes a dangerous ritual to prove his worthiness as a warrior in a holographic simulation. Star Trek officer. Mm hmm. A young Starfleet officer. A young Starfleet officer. Uh, uh, does it say that again? A young Starfleet officer undergoes a dangerous ritual to prove his worthiness as a warrior in a holographic simulation. Dangerous ritual. Like, try and think, there's a few things that it could be. Okay. Like, you know, like, uh, my first thought is, a sentient day that way it is, where a wharf like goes and gets hit by pain sticks, you know. That's a good one, but no. Uh, so, because, because, because, worthiness of house, a holodeck, dangerous, I don't think I have this one. I've got it as Star Trek D Space Nine. Uh huh. Season seven, episode one. Image in the sand. Uh huh. With Ensign Nog. Nog goes, so, image of the sand. Uh huh. Uh, he goes, what, what, like, because I'm familiar with it. This is where, this is where Cisco's on Earth. Uh, Kira is dealing with Romulans. And what, what does Nog do? What, what's the simulation? I'm, I had to look this one up. Yeah, I have this one as he was in a simulation, but I'm trying to kind of look it up. Um, hmm. Now I can't remember. So you picked one, the D Space Nine, I, I, one, I need to go back and re-watch. Yeah. Yeah, like, I, I'm, I'm trying to think like, so where is image of the sand? Yes. Uh huh. So is that where, I think they are, they're trying to find, they eventually try to find the, the, the profit that's going to bring back the wormhole. Mm-hmm. Cisco, uh, like Kira is, and Odo are dealing with the Romulans who won't back down. And where is Jake and where is Nog? Valadec. So not, so Jake is on Earth. Oh yeah, Jake, Jake is with, with a dad. Yep. Um, Nog is on the Defiant. So they, so the, the Defiant returns to the station from convoy duty. Uh huh. Uh, when Nog, not basically comments, he'd rather be on convoy duty than in battle where it's safer. Uh huh. Um, but yeah, I thought, I'm trying to, I have to come back to that. Okay. Okay. Let's do one more because like I feel like one more is going to do one more. All right. Let's see. Let's have a good one. Maybe what you did was you just chat cheapy, cheapy-tea and chat, cheapy-tea just made it up. Or someone else did. Yes. Um, okay. This is, this is, this should be an easy one. It's an easy one for me. Okay. A crew member not telling what their rank is experiences an entire lifetime in the span of a few minutes after being struck by an alien probe. Like, like a few minutes is, you know, uh, I think deceptive. It was probably a little more like 10 and it was Picard. Yes. You know, uh, it is where he, uh, he learns to play a flute. Yes. But it's, it's a very beautiful episode. It is a beautiful episode. Yeah. No, no. Uh, I think, I think it's really good. Like, you know, for all, for all, this is a Picard-centered episode. Everyone else is standing around watching Picard lay on the ground. Uh, and, but it's, it's a very, very beautiful episode. I, I very much enjoy it. Okay. All right. Couple more. We're getting close to the hour. So I'm gonna ask you two more tricky questions. Anyone on the, on the, on the chat, please ask me any, like, I know I'm dull, but, you know, but, you know, you can ask me anything. Okay. Here we go. Um, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. How do you think Star Trek has handled social and political issues over the years? If you had to grade Star Trek, what would you give it as a grade? What are your thoughts on how they've kind of handled social and political issues? It's hard to say in the sense that not all series have done the same thing at the same level, right? Okay. Uh, that said, like, you know, and also you have to, uh, balance consumability. So when I think of like, you know, TOS, I mean, like, the, the idea of having like, like, Ahora, you know, and Sulu as main characters and a Russian, you know, you know, it's, it's really forward thinking, you know, first and a racial couple kiss on TV. And, you know, and, and to be fair, like, you know, it was, uh, Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball that greenlit it. And so, and, you know, and they were an interracial couple. So I imagine there was some, uh, impulse for that. I think, so I think that it's a, I think that's a, like, an A minus in that way. Like, you know, if I had the grade, like, you know, like, I don't expect TV shows to change the world immediately. I think it influences the world. Uh, I think next gen, like, like, as a whole, like, it's always pushing. Like next gen dealt with trans. You know, like nine, non-bitten, well, maybe not trans, non-binary, you know, with the episode with Riker. Like, you know, uh, so, and, you know, and I thought that was like, really forward thinking in retrospect is like really forward thinking. Like, uh, uh, although, like, I would say, in that episode, it's very, you know, gender centric. So like, maybe, maybe that's not the best episode. But the fact that it was even discussion is something interesting. Um, and Desi's nine had, like, first lesbian kiss or woman, woman kiss with Dax and, uh, her, her wife. So I think, I mean, I think it's always pushing. Like, I think what it does very well is goes, hey, like, the social norms are not the end all of what we, like, it's not the end. We haven't achieved equality and representation. You know, like at any time, sometimes I feel like society gets to the point where they go, oh, we solved it. We solved racism. You know, Obama got like this. So racism is solved. And, and I, and I get it. I get, I get why people would think that, but like, you know, I feel like Star Trek always pushes a little bit. Like, you know, uh, in a strange new world, like, you know, like Captain Angel. Oh my God. Like, you know, like, uh, such a great character, such a great, uh, you know, just a seamless use of it. Like, you know, it didn't make a big deal of it. And yet it was a big deal. It was just, it was just beautiful or discovery with Adira and Gray, like that entire dynamic. I think, you know, it's talking to a, a friend of mine recently. And one of the things that, that they noted is that there's a lot of movie and TV shows that have aged terribly over the last 40 years or so, right? One of them being revenge of the nerds, right? For whatever it was when we were all adolescents not supposed about watching it and watching it, you look back on it to now and it's like, Oh my goodness, that's terrible. But you know why? Like, you know, like, like, like, no, Mr. Sammy, I'm not, I'm not that guy. But like, I go like, like, in the context of what society accepted, it, it wasn't terrible. And, and as society evolves, like, you know, like, you know, like, we look back and you're like, Oh, the person who I was enjoyed that I'm no longer that person. Yeah, I think when I think about something like revenge of the nerds, I look and go, even at the time, there should have been an adult in the room that said, this is not good, right? Like what, what we're, what we're depicting here is not great. I bring that up to juxtapose, juxtapose that with Star Trek is that as I look back over Star Trek and go, I'm really proud of, of what Star Trek has been, because wherever society has been, Star Trek has pushed that. And so the result is as you look back, even if, if you say, well, there were some very misogynist tendencies in TOS, it still pushed the envelope and you go, all right, like still wasn't as bad as it could have been, right? Well, I mean, like, I think, I think a lot of people nowadays judge the past as to why it's not where we are now, what we value now. But I think like you need to judge the past in a sense of like, here is where we were, and here is the direction that this place was going. Like, you know, like, like, like, for, for all of it, once upon a time, it was very common to have segregated schools. Yes. You know, and, you know, like, there were people who go, like, this is not great, you know, and I think for all of it, they were right. So, so, like, they, they are looked favorably, you know, on, you know, on history that way. I can guarantee you that all their viewpoints were not like, you know, to the level of it now. Sure. Right. Right. But like, you can only judge it for the context that the direction that it was going. Right. You can't really go like the absolute like, oh, well, I can't believe you ate beef, you know, like 10 years from now, it could be like, oh, look, you drove, you drove a gas guzzling car. And you know, how could you do that? You, you, you sacrificed my future, mom, dad. And you go, like, you know, I did the best I could. It goes, and what about the air conditioning? So cold, so cold. It's nice in here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we, we've been going for almost an hour. Lots of more questions I could ask. I'm going to ask you this one, Paul. What are your hopes for the future Star Trek franchise? Well, my hope is that we get, you know, some funding to go on the Star Trek cruise. But like, but working on my abs right now. There we go. But like, once again, like, I, I believe that Star Trek exists and will always exist as long as it remembers that it's about hope and optimism. Like, I don't want to be a broken record. I apologize. But I just feel like in this day and age, we're kind of straying from that. It's so easy to look at the negatives. And it's not that we should avert our eyes from it, but like, it shouldn't be that the negatives color like our future. It shouldn't be like, Oh, because it's negative now, because things are bad now that it can't be better. I think that the, you know, I think Star Trek, as long as it continues to fight like a beacon in the, in, you know, the ocean of hopelessness that some people might have, like, you know, I think that idea of like, Oh, there is a path forward. We just have to believe in the goodness of ourselves, you know, and be better, like, you know, all the time you look at Star Trek, you know, like, you look at Federation values, people want to do some other things. Like, like, I would rather just, you know, fire, I just would rather just, you know, just interfere or blah, blah, blah, blah. They are restrained from doing that because they can postpone their initial desire to do good that or whatever for the greater good of like, this is going to be better for everyone if I do this correctly. Does that make sense? It does. It does. I mean, I, I agree with you. I think for me, I'm really hoping that any future Star Trek does what some of the things that we talked about. And that is, it's this place where we can look to and say, I want my future to look like that. That's beautiful. Glad I did this. It's, you know, at its heart, I think Star Trek should stay aspirational. This is what we should be. We should strive to be this. And I think, you know, a lot of shows don't do that. Like, you know, like, I remember like, I was watching Shonda Rhimes talk about scandal. And she goes like, Hey, you know, you couldn't make scandal with, you know, when things were hopeless. Like, you only can make scandal when things are pretty good because it's a fairly negative show. You know, and I think like, nowadays with, and this is social media and, you know, the negativity that can be, you know, I wish people would watch more things that was aspiring. I wish people would watch more things that would go like, Oh, humans may suck. But they have the capacity to be better. I think Star Trek has always done that in a way that was palatable. Yeah. I look, I think you're spot on. I think we've, we've come to a place in, in TV culture, where there are more shows with an antihero. Sure. More shows where it's, it's dark and we're almost enjoying the turmoil and the frustration and the pushing the rock uphill of the characters. And I think for me, that's why I was so drawn to a show like Ted Lasso. Yeah. Because Ted Lasso wasn't without some conflict and some, and a little bit of strife. But it was so aspirational. You had this character who you were like, man, even though when they're hard in there, when they're going through hard things, that's the type of person I want in my life, right? Like you look at that and you're like, I want to root for them. I do think we want to, we need more shows like that. And Chupie in the chat says, I think it's possible Academy is going to be an even better vehicle for this. It has the potential because it is about young people. I'm hopeful that what we get with Academy is that bright-eyed Bushytale, the best of the Federation, we're smiling and like bright, which I think we get a little bit with strange new world. Thanks to one of the things I really love about strange new world. And I'm hoping it's not a bunch of young people going on action adventures every week. Yeah. No, I mean, I hope so. Like ultimately, I think Star Trek needs to be in the hands of people who understand what Star Trek is. I think Star Trek is vast enough that it can hold a couple of missteps. But you see it with Star Wars sometimes. There are a lot of things that people are not really digging with the new Star Wars. And I don't know if it's because they're being trolls or whatever. But in the end, the ultimate feeling for those people, it does not feel like Star Wars. And so I hope that the people who understand, I think the greatest, I think if you repeated next generation in the '90s, Star Trek would have died. I think knowing how to evolve it from TOS to next gen was the key to keeping it alive. You said next year. So you said if you repeated TOS in the '90s, it would have died. I think there was the need to grow. And they did it beautifully. I agree with you. But I'd also say if you repeated TOS in 2018, 2017, I think if you repeated, if you had started off there, I don't know they would have caught on. I think it would have been great for those of us who love TNG. I think you needed the discovery, which is shot darker, which has more angst to get to a strange new world, which is shot lighter and has happier storylines. Maybe. Yeah. I don't disagree with that. I don't push against that. I mean, in the end, we're talking about a show that inspires. And as long as people remember that they need to do that with this show, I think it'll be fine. I'm excited to see where it can go. What I worry about is ultimately going, "Oh, here is this IP. Let's just milk it." Yeah, don't do that. Like I said, there are times when I watch Star Trek episodes in this iteration, where I go like, "Oh, I don't know if this person is a fan of Star Trek or even understand Star Trek. I think they might understand story, but this episode may not feel like Star Trek." But that's just me. Am I a hater? Yeah. Obviously. I'm a chaos agent, of course. I'm terrible. No one should listen to me. All right. Well, I'm glad we got a chance to list T-Paul. And if you're still listening, thank you so much for joining us on the pod this week. We will be back with our captain, Mariah Gossett. Next week, I believe. Is that right, Paul? We're coming back with you? I'm hoping so. Like if I'm not in the brig, which is a possibility. If she has not pushed me out an airlock, that's right. Not to come back. That's right. Good to go. I will be back. That's right. We are on computer. The computer is flying the ship right now. Yes. But assuming that we'll be back, talking more Star Trek as we get ready to talk prodigy. So if, I mean, it's coming. So please come back with us. Yeah. You can always subscribe, rate, review us on Apple or wherever you listen to your podcast. Check us out at Star Trek pod.co. If you want to hang out and talk all things Trek coming out with us on our Patreon, patreon.com/Star TrekPod. Yeah. And thanks, Karen, for helping us out on X, for still there. If you guys have any thoughts of how we can make our podcast better, yes, feel free to let us know. Say, hey, you know, more Mariah. Great. You know, less cloud. I like the feedback. That's right. So Paul, get a haircut. I'm going to say class, shave your beard, like all those, whatever you got. Be sure to let us know. Yeah, look, we love the community. I think we have one of the best Star Trek communities around. I say this all the time. I have gone through a dark season during the pod and it's our podcast community that kept me tethered and sane. So I will always be grateful and thankful for that. So yeah, I love our community. But if you've got ideas on how to make things better and brighter, new things that we can try, send them on over. We're all ears. All right. So thank you for joining us on Star Trek Discovery Pod. Yes, the long and prosper. That's, that's, that's, that's what Mariah says. Yeah. Bye. Come on, Clyde. You can do it. You can do it. You can do it. You can do it. Okay. Well, yeah, it's all I got. Okay. Bye, everyone. Bye, guys.
