Coaching for Leaders - Talent Management | Leaders
691: Bringing Your Strengths to a Big Job, with General CQ Brown, Jr.
Effective leaders discover how to best use their strengths, and of course, champion the strengths of others. On this episode, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs on how to bring your strengths to a big job. This is Coaching for Leaders, Episode 691. Produced by Innovate Learning, Maximizing Human Potential. Greetings to you from Orange County, California. This is Coaching for Leaders, and I'm your host, Dave Stahoveak. Leaders are born, they're made, and this weekly show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. Sometimes we assume that we need to be someone else in order to lead well. As we'll hear from today's guest, showing up well in a big job means bringing your own strengths to the work and helping others do that too. I'm pleased to welcome General C. Q. Brown Jr. He is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the nation's highest ranking military officer. As Chairman, he is the principal military advisor to the President of the United States, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Council. Prior to this role, he was the first black officer in American history to head one of our military branches as Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force. Time magazine has called him one of the top 100 most influential people. General, welcome to Coaching for Leaders. Thanks, David. It's a real pleasure to be here. I have seen a slide of yours with Marvel superheroes on it, so we got to start our conversation there. When you were a kid, what superhero did you like? Spider-Man, it just so happened. I didn't realize this when I was a kid, but Spider-Man was born the same year I was. When I was in middle school, me and my friends, you know, collected comic books and Spider-Man was the one I collected. I still have comic books from middle school. I have a number of pieces of Spider-Man paraphernalia in my office at home. My sons give me Spider-Man gear for Father's Days and birthdays and those. And so Spider-Man's just been one of those that I've always enjoyed and followed. What is it about Spider-Man that you think you latched on to? In hindsight, now, when you look at Peter Parker, he's just an average guy. And when I think about my own leadership, and I've talked about this, is I'm just an ordinary person with an extraordinary opportunity. And you think about Spider-Man. He's just a regular guy. It gets bitten by a radioactive spider. And it gets put in positions where he can do some extraordinary things as a superhero. Not that I consider myself a superhero, but I do think that I've been afforded a number of opportunities throughout my career. And I've just been in the right place at the right time and been well prepared for those as I've come into them. Today you ask people about their superpowers. What's important about getting people talking about a superpower? Well, it's all about self-assessment. And I have a leadership pitch I give. And I say, if you're on a scale of one and 10, if you're two, you're never going to be a 10. Because in fact, 50% of the world's below average. And you've really got to think about, as you do your self-assessment, there's something you're too at. You can work hard to get yourself up to average, slightly above, slightly below, and work really hard doing that. Or those things you're really good at, or not really good at a six or seven, you can work hard to get to eight, nine or ten. And it's important that you know what you're a six or seven at, work really hard on that. And what I recommend to folks that the things you're too at is just to give up. And what I mean by that is find someone who has that skill set and make them part of your team, make them part of your network, which is why I talk about superpowers because if the Avengers, despite our management of the Avengers, if the Avengers all have the same superpower, would they be the Avengers? It's the same thing with a high-powered organization. If we all had the same skill set and you all looked alike, thought alike, did everything the same, would you be a high-powered organization? You'd have, you know, everybody would have the same vulnerability. And those are kinds of things you get to think about when you build your team of... And asking people about their superpowers because you may not think about it, but you know, every one of us has a skill set that we're really good at. And you need to acknowledge that and not be shy about it. And at the same time, note some areas that you're not as good at. And you figure out how to mitigate and not put yourself in situations where that particular skill set is... You know, you get yourself into the deep end without your floaties. You want to make sure you're able to mitigate that and have someone who can help you work through that particular area that you're not as good at. You posted recently on LinkedIn and I'm quoting you, enhancing the quality of service and quality of life for our service members and their families is not just a moral obligation, but a strategic imperative. We must create an environment where all can reach their full potential. In the spirit of that, people tend to spend a lot of time trying to get better at their weaknesses. We think about those twos and threes that you were mentioning. And we don't tend to spend as much time leveraging and refining our strengths, the things we already have. How do you help people to shift on that just a bit? Well, I think as a leader, and having done this for a while, you know, wearing the uniform for now 39 years, is I feel like I'm able to assess and look at different people I work with and can pick up on some of the things they're good at. And then how do I do that? You know, how do I help leverage their strengths is actually, I give them things that are their strengths. When I asked them when you do this, I ensure that they're given the opportunity to reach their full potential using their strengths. If I know this is an area of weakness, I may not call on them to provide them that one because it's not going to go as well. And they're going to struggle and they're going to spend more time, you know, I wouldn't say in a state of panic, but a state of angst concerned that they've been given something that they're not as strong and now. If that happens, and some of them announce to me, I do what I like for them to do is actually go find someone who has that skill set and work with them. The goal is to get an outcome. It doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be from that individual. It's a team effort when we do these things. And so it's important that you really try to help put people in a place of ease by giving them things that are right in their will house of note. They know how to do. They could do this. I wouldn't say in their sleep, but it's pretty simple for them. And they're natural to it. And that's what you want to be able to do. And that's a sign of a good leader, but also at the same time, if it doesn't work out, you're able to work with that individual and go, "Okay, we forgot why we, and they come back." There may be a time when they come at you, "I'm not very good at this. In some case, I wish I would pick up on that to be able to help them and not put them in a position where they felt a lot of extra stress unnecessarily." Yeah, and I imagine part of doing that well is being really intentional, especially if you're in the person in the top job, to open the conversation to those strengths, like those numbers you were talking earlier. Two, three, is this a six or a seven? Having that conversation in advance means then you have the information to decide, "All right, what is the strength? What isn't the strength? Where do we find people that have it?" Exactly, exactly. So you also talk with people about theme songs, and I'm guessing there's a tie in here to strength too. When you're talking with folks about a theme song, what's behind that? Well, I think we've all been in positions where you have a new boss come in, a new commander, and the chatter within the organization is, "What is the new boss like?" And what they're really asking, "What is your theme song?" And I'm a huge NFL fan, so I use the fact, if you go to an NFL stadium during the timeouts, they're playing music to get the crowd pumped up. And you may have that maybe your theme song. You're a person that gets the crowd pumped up. You get everybody excited for showing air because you get things done. Or it could be like a music that plays out of Starbucks or a jazz club that is so laid back that folks go, "God, this is going to be great because they're not going to move the organization for potentially." And the last thing could be music in a horror movie where you don't want to open the door. I think you want to have all three of those on your playlist. One is you want to fire up your organization and get them working when things are important. Sometimes you need to slow them down because they have a lot of thrust and no vector. Then once you bring them back and get them reset, then you can fire them back up again. And sometimes you have to fire for effect with a horror movie to let them know they're not meeting your expectations. I think the other thing I do highlight with this is that you also want to have a trusted agent, someone that you trust that's in the organization that you've worked with before that can come to you and give you feedback. Because the theme song you think you might be playing may not be the one those who are privileged to lead or hearing. And you may think you're firing the crowd up, but you may be full of horror movie. And you need to understand that which then you would adjust your approach on how do you communicate and engage with your organization to make sure you're able to lead them effectively just based on how you move forward. And so you have a reputation as leaving 40 even show up at whatever location. And the key part is that is your theme song. And hopefully it's a theme song you like, that's your plan for the folks you're privileged to lead. The bigger the job, the harder it is to find that trusted agent, the person who's going to speak truth to you for your benefit for the benefit of the organization. As you've had some big jobs in recent years, how have you found that person, those people who are willing to do that for you? Well, you know, I have a handful of them that will do that. One one my wife in particular, she's not trying to tell me that that didn't go over so well or that's that wasn't you. And she can tell when I'm, you know, particularly speaking, engaging if it's not, I'm not resonating. And then I have a couple other folks that have worked with me and spent time with you. But part of that is being able to invite them and make them feel comfortable that they can come back and talk to you and give you that feedback, even at this level. And so part of it, you got to, you got to fight for feedback, no matter what level you are, and you got to fight a little harder at this level. And you got to make people feel comfortable that they can talk to you and give you feedback. And your response to the feedback will actually determine whether or not you're going to continue to get feedback, or that's the last time they're giving you feedback. And if you really want candid feedback, you got to bite your tongue and realize that you may not resonate with everyone. And you take every piece of feedback, you get with a grain of salt because there may be some you disagree with, but sometimes you need to hear it. And I actually have a couple folks that when I, after speaking, I always kind of look to them because they're going to give it to me straight because I trust them that they can give it to me straight. And they're looking out not just for me, but for the organization and what we represent. And I think that's important that you, you find those folks and it's not easy all the time. But you got to open up to them as well. And that's what fills that trust that goes both ways to be able to get that feedback. That conversation about superpowers that often you kick off when the conversation comes back around the room and you answer that question. What's your superpower? What do you tell folks? I feel that I'm really good at being able to take complex issues and breaking them down into parts that we can go execute my degrees in engineering. And so I'm very processful. I like solving problems. I joke about it. Sometimes that's not doesn't work well at home. You know, sometimes my wife just wants me to listen and not to not solve the problem, but there is the aspect of being able to take these complex issues and then. Figuring out and tie it in. And I like, I like using metaphors and analogies and it's a way to actually make a connection with someone. They go, this isn't as hard as you might think. This is something you're already familiar with that we're familiar with. And how do we then take those problems and go? Yes, we can do this, but we got to break it into parts that we can actually execute. And then I believe success breeds success. If you can start small and have success, that opens the door for greater success and trust going for it. You don't have to take it all in at one time and that's the way I try to approach some of these challenges. And then it's got to be a dialogue and collaboration. I think that's really important because everybody in the team has a piece of the information and we may not all have the same piece of information. And if we work together, we are probably going to be more effective as a team versus not asking for help, which I think human nature is we're less than fine to ask for help. We want to do this ourselves because we have our own pride and ego, but we've got to be able to pass that if it's important of what we need to bring together. And I'm happy to tell folks, and I've felt in certain things and I don't always get it right, but I'm willing to learn and how we dust ourselves off after each one of these challenges helps us set the stage for the next one. I know you've talked before about introversion being one of your strengths. How does that help you to do the job of Chairman? Well, I think the way that it helps me is I listen more than I talk. And by listening, I learn. I could say a lot of things, but I think particularly when you're in a key role of a higher level of position, if you're the first to talk sometimes, you shut down the potential for others to come in because what they don't want to do, particularly if you've got a boss and you're trying to make sure you stay in line with the boss. As soon as you start heading down the path, you basically have cut off maybe some of the other paths that might be options. And so I invite people to speak, and as a matter of fact, I have a saying, I want to have the meeting after the meeting in the meeting. And so we've all been in meetings, and then sometimes not much is said. And then when you get in the hallway or you turn off the video teleconference, then all the opinions start to fly. And they go, God, I wish you had said something bad in the meeting, be able to hear that actually helps us to better appreciate the work we have to do, where there might be some concern, where there may be some risk, and how we open our eyes, and how we might mitigate the risk. It may not change the approach I'm going to take, but it does help me think through what some of the pitfalls might be. And so you've really got to think about how do you bring in and listen. And then what I tend to do is listen, and then after I've heard, I go, OK, I think I've heard most of what I need to hear. Based on what I heard, this is what I think we should do. And then I'll also ask, is anybody have any reservations? You want folks to speak up, and you've got to give them an opportunity to do that. And that's the approach that I take to, as an introvert, to be able to bring folks in. Now, one of the things I'd highlight is the challenge I have is because I don't see anything, it can be very intimidating as well. And I've got to loosen up with some folks and joke a little bit to let them know that, OK, I'm just thinking, I'm in the moment sometimes. And I know that is a thing I have to work on continuously that I have to communicate because otherwise folks will get nervous that I don't say anything. And I'm just thinking, I'm just listening. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because I think one of the challenges a lot of us run into is we sometimes overuse our strengths, not over index on them. And I'm wondering how you guard against that. I mean, not only personally, but obviously in a role where there's so much depending on the communications, the advice that you're giving to so many others, one of them is kind of knowing how other people perceive that. How else do you guard against those overusing those strengths, potentially buying spots? Well, I think one of the areas that I would highlight is having been an introvert pretty much my entire life. I found it sometimes where I probably should have said something and I didn't. And that is an area that I felt I've been able to mitigate, got more comfortable when I go, OK, I'm already thinking, I think I should say something. And that to me has come with time where I get more comfortable where I feel like, OK, I need to go ahead and say something. If it's a topic I'm very familiar with, I have no problem, but it's others where I'm still, I don't know the topic as well, or I don't know the audience as well that I'm working with. It may take a little time, or I mean, respectful to others who are speaking. And I feel like I don't want to interject, and that can be a downfall as well. Because if I don't interject, I mean, it's an opportunity to say something of value or add value to the conversation. So it is one of those things that, you know, not saying anything can also be a factor that it's helpful to listen, but sometimes you do have to speak up and share your opinion and share your thoughts. But to get this, folks, you know, as an advisor, you can't advise if you don't say anything. Yeah. Yeah. You know, everything's so much a process of learning, right? You're a learning leader. But I'm curious, how did you figure that out and figure out that sweet spot? I would probably say was probably once I got to college. I had a friend who I would say never throw a brick and hide your hand. And it actually helped me to think about how to engage in areas and be able to speak up. And I felt like it always lead, but it was also how do you get in and say things that may be uncomfortable for me personally, or, you know, it's going to be challenging those on the receiving end. And I've just gotten more and more comfortable over time to be able to say what I think, but also figure out how best to say it. So it comes across as constructive. But it's something you always got to work on because you can get very frustrated with something and you got to figure out the best way how to communicate that frustration without cutting off the communication. That you have with that particular individual. So much of this role is thinking about, yes, of course, the military context, but also the context of the people you're advising the president, the secretary, right, who are thinking about a lot of other variables too. You mentioned it's easy to jump in when you know something really well, right? But when it's something that's not your discipline for any of us, it's a little bit harder. How do you broaden your skill set today, understand more of what's going on? Just your own personal practice of keeping that learning going. Well, there's a number of things. It's listening to podcasts. It's reading. It's the news feeds that I get. You know, one of the magazines I read is the Economist. Actually, I listened to the Economist because there's a couple of things I like about it. It's not a US publication. It goes once and around the world every week. And because of that, it helps me to pick up on topics that aren't necessarily US only, you know, a huge NFL fan. So it's not the NFL. It's those things that give me a sense of things that are on the president's plate. Because if I can't provide advice, if I don't know the context of what my boss is and my boss's boss is thinking. So I think about the two levels above me. What's on my boss's plate? My boss's boss's plate. So in this case, it's for me, it's the secretary of defense in the president of the United States. And I could give advice, but if it doesn't fit into the context of things you're working through, it's advice that is not well received. It doesn't fit in. And so I've got to kind of be attuned. And that's why the listening part, I think, is important. Because as you, as I hear the conversation, you get a sense of what advice I might give and how it might fit into the bigger picture of what the president or the secretary of defense has on their mind and what they're thinking through. Yeah, and that comes back around to something you mentioned a bit ago, which is having the meeting after the meeting in the meeting, right? Like in order to give the best advice and have the context, you've got to be able to hear what is actually happening from the action officers and enlisted folks and junior officers. And I know you've had that practice for a long time of having all levels involved in conversations. I got to imagine that a lieutenant or captain or NCO who shows up in a meeting with you is feeling pretty nervous. How do you help them to feel comfortable and safe to say whatever they need to say that's going to inform you to be able to give the best advice? Well, there's a couple of things that I've done throughout my career. Take as a senior leader is, unless I have to, I typically don't sit at the head of the table, I try to sit on the side or sit at a round table. So, you know, it's more deference. Because what happens if you're sitting at the head of the table and then there's deference to that position versus I'm part of the conversation and we're going to do this together. There's also, I like to get the read-a-heads of whatever they're going to present. So, I do read it. I take notes and I prepare to ask questions. And sometimes what I'll do is, instead of you having to brief and get really nervous about our brief, why don't we just talk? Because you know a lot about this topic. And you probably feel more comfortable just talking to me about the topic then, briefing me and hoping you're going to hit all the key points. Now, I'll tell you that does make their bosses nervous because they practice the brief and now I take them off script. But I really get more up because there's, and then I'll go back at the end and go, okay, was there anything in your brief that we didn't cover that we should have covered? But it really helps me because I'm able to have a dialogue to go back and forth with the individual and they can talk to me about some key points that may not be available. That may not be in the PowerPoint presentation or the reading material. We have a much deeper conversation that actually helps us probably get a little further down the path. And then when I ask questions, I try to provide context to the question. Here's why I'm asking this question. Okay, I'm going to ask you a question, but here's why I'm asking that question. Because I think about each of the answers, I guess, is a part to a jigsaw puzzle. They could give me a part to the puzzle, but if it's the wrong answer, it doesn't fit the puzzle. And so I can help them give me a better answer or they can ask me questions. So they understand what is it I'm trying to get to, which may, they may give me a different answer. And so it's that dialogue to me is so important where it's not just a brief, but it's more of a dialogue and that dialogue then, you know, I'm a real person, just like they are. And, you know, I'm curious, just like many of the other folks in the room, but that dialogue to me is so important and to make them feel more comfortable, they can just talk to me and not feel like they're briefing me. So many leaders I talked to espouse to do what you're doing. And what often stops them is something else you mentioned, which is making their bosses nervous, the middle managers, right? In your case, the majors, the colonels, maybe the one stars in the room. So many executive leaders I talked to say, I want to have that conversation with the folks at the junior levels, but I'm worried about stepping on toes. What things do you say to folks at that middle management level to help them find more comfort in those conversations to embrace that dialogue at going between different levels? Well, I actually tell them I'm going to want to hear from their action officers. I want to hear from the lower level folks and I want to hear everybody's opinion. I want to hear that, you know, the one star corners up position, as well as the major or the senior mass starting. I had a one of my counterparts, this is when I was the chief of staff, the Air Force said, good ideas have no rank, which is true. That every good idea doesn't mean just because you're three or four started means you have all the good ideas. Some of the best ideas may come from our more junior members. We got to be willing to pull them into the conversation. And there is the hierarchy in the military and that that we have to pay attention to, but we got to have a dialogue. And then once we get ready to go execute, then the rank and the other aspects and the positions of responsibility come into play. And so part of this is just making people feel comfortable. One of the things I do in the meetings is I try to watch body language. Because you can tell when you can pick up on when someone wants to say something and I try to pull them into the conversation. Even if they're sitting, you know, we call them a back banter. They're in the back bench and their boss is sitting there and they look uncomfortable. Obviously, there's something they want to say. It's all asking. But I also, you know, I tell folks and I do that up front when I come into new positions and tell them, "This is what I expect that you bring in some of your folks and I want to hear from everybody." And it's a sign of your own leadership. If you feel uncomfortable because someone who works for you is going to say something that you haven't approved. Because you're providing intent in whatever level of leadership you're at. And if you have any chance to have that dialogue with them, then maybe you haven't been listening to what they have to say if it makes you uncomfortable. And so it's encouraging the leader at all levels to engage with all the members of their team. And if you do that, it just builds trust across the board. Here in two big things there, one is the expectations in advance, right? The why? Here's how I'm going to do this. Here's how our team's going to do this. And in the moment, do you see that discomfort of being curious, right? Being curious to find out what's not been said. Like, what's the conversation we need to have? And again, taking that meeting after the meeting, right into the meeting in order to do that. I talked to a few folks on your staff about your strengths. And one of them said, he listens like nobody else. When you're listening well, what's happening? Actually, what it does, it helps to trigger ideas or triggers something that happened before that I can remember that, okay, I've been down this path before. And there's a way that I would approach this based on past experience, whether it went well or not. But it also, it helps me to connect dots. If I'm listening, I can see there's something they said that connects with something else. And I wouldn't say it's a eureka moment, but it's one of those where things kind of start to come together and you start to get things become clearer because they're saying something that just adds, amplifies another piece that you can tie together. And that's what I'm really trying to do is, as I said, I'm always trying to put together the puzzle in my own mind and synthesize the data when I'm hearing and based on that. And one of the things I do, Dave, is I will go, you know, based on what I heard, this is, this is my impression of the situation. Tell me if that sounds about right. And I asked that of a, you know, our more junior briefers, hey, here's all the pieces I've been hearing over the past several days. So based on what I'm hearing is this, this is what I'm seeing. This is what I think could potentially happen is that, is that kind of aligned with what you're thinking based on your levels? You're much deeper in this than I am. And I might have more senior level, but I've got to try to put all this together in my mind. So I can't provide that advice. That's, that's the way that I try to pull that together as I'm listening. I often ask people what they've changed their minds on. And you've, you're a learning leader, you're listening, reading, considering new perspectives. And I'd assume you're thinking as evolving as you go. Since you've taken the job as chairman, how is your thinking evolved? Well, I think one of the things that I've, I thought about how they ask questions a bit differently. And what I mean by that is, you know, early in my tenure, it was pretty busy. World events occurred right shortly after I came into the position. And so we were moving pretty quickly on some, some things. And as I gave a piece of advice and signed some staffing that went up to the secretary of defense, it came back with, he asked a few extra questions and I go, okay, that was a learning point for me of questions I should have asked. And then it really helped me in the start thinking, you know, stepping back from it and then kind of replaying in my mind, I tend to do that as well. We play my own mind, okay, how could I have done that differently? And what it did for me is now, how do I ask questions differently of the staff and of myself, which will maybe bring out a different response or different answer. Realizing with the, you know, what outcome are we trying to achieve? I'm trying to achieve a certain outcome. You got to ask the question maybe a little bit differently to have those who are responding think a bit differently. And so it's a piece of self analysis that I've done of how do you ask the question, because you'll get a certain answer depending on how you ask the question. It kind of goes back to adding context, but it's not just the context, but it's also the approach. And then I think the other piece I would also tell you is that because I do replay things online, I'll come back the next day and go, okay, I know what I told you yesterday. We're going to change that approach a bit, because overnight, I thought through some things, and I wanted to maybe take a different approach or add this in addition to what I told you yesterday, or a couple of days ago, because that's a little more time to think about it. Or I've talked and engaged someplace else, and another dots been connected, and I go, okay, we can step back missing. I think we've got a better way to do this that'll make it easier for everybody, because I want to work smarter, not harder on a number of different areas and really how do we move things forward. And that's kind of my approach. That first part you said of asking questions a little bit differently today than you did when you started. If I was in one of your briefings back in October, compared to being in a meeting today, what would I hear in how you ask questions? That's perhaps a little different given that evolution. Well, I think it goes into a bit more of the context setting up front. Here are the things around my mind. Here are the three things around my mind. And based on that, the question is now focused, not just in the near term, it's in the near term and a little further out. Because I believe that in some cases, you can solve one problem today and create three more problems for yourself tomorrow. And so how do I think about when I asked the question? I realize what we need to be able to do today. We've got to make a decision on something for today or tomorrow. But if we look further out on the timeline, there's some other factors that we have to think about. So how do the things that we're doing today, the decision we made today, how does it impact those? It goes into something in my mentor is you never want to take short term satisfaction at the expense of your long term goals. So yes, you could say, this is what I go do, but then you may box yourself in. So that's the part I start when I ask questions, I start looking. Okay, we want to be able to do this here three weeks, three months, three years from now. So how will we actually approach this particular problem? If I don't have to worry about the next three weeks, three months to three years, I would actually, you could do something. But then you do need another problem for yourself. So it's really thinking how you ask the question in relation to the bigger picture. You mentioned a bit ago that one of the ways you hear what you need to hear is asking folks, what wasn't part of the briefing, the deck that I need to hear. What's the question I didn't ask you that you'd want folks to know about showing up with strengths? That is a good question. I think what I want people to know is the real aspect of leadership is when you're leading and challenging times. There's a quote from Martin Luther King Jr. that I use and have adapted. The measure of a leader is not where one stands in comfort and convenience. It's where one stands in challenging controversy. It is easy to lead when there's nothing going on, but that's not when people need leadership. They're really looking for your leadership when there's challenging controversy, when the chips are down. And I think the one thing I personally appreciate, I want to make a difference. And I want to be in a position where I can't make a difference. I do not mind the challenge, I do not mind the stress. As a matter of fact, I think sometimes I thrive on it because I want to make a difference and be able to solve problems and make things happen. That's what makes great leaders is when you look at our history around the world and you talk about leaders, they're usually the ones that are leading when there's something going on very challenging and they're able to have some level of success. Now, you also may have some failures as well, and you learn from those failures. I've had some failures throughout my career, but it's those kinds of things to be put yourself and not be afraid to put yourself in positions where it's going to be a challenge. C.C. Brown Jr. is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. General, thank you for your time. Thanks, Dave. If this conversation was helpful for you four related episodes, I'd also recommend from our library. One of them is episode 440, leadership in the midst of chaos. General Jim Mattis was my guest on that episode, U.S. Marine Corps General, also former Secretary of Defense here in the States. We had a conversation about leadership broadly and also about coaching specifically, and one of the things that Jim said in that conversation is that he could command in 15 minutes a day. The rest of the time was coaching, a great compliment today to this conversation with General Brown. Again, that's episode 440. Also recommended episode 505, your leadership motive with Patrick Lencioni. Pat has written so many wonderful books on leadership, has been on the show several times over the years. In that conversation, Pat and I talked about the motive behind why we lead in examining our motives, and all of us have good motives. All of us also sometimes struggle with not the right motives. Pat and I talked about how do we really examine our motives, make sure they're in the right place, and to do the best for our organizations and others, episode 505 for that. Also recommended episode 571, engaging people through change. Cassandra Worthy was my guest on that episode. Leadership, of course, is the answer to change. And in that conversation, Cassandra and I talked about the human aspect of change, how people look at change and how they process it, and how we as leaders can do a better job of helping to provide the resources to go through the change process. Better episode 571 for that. And then finally, you heard General Brown talk about connecting with people well in this conversation. My most recent conversation with Charles Duhigg, best-selling author of Super Communicators, and The Power of Habit, also recommended episode 670, how to connect with people better. Charles and I discussed his research and looking at the people out there who do the best job as communicators, connecting well, great relationships. What is it they do? We talked about that in episode 670. All of those episodes you can find on the coachingforleaders.com website, and every time I recommend one of our past episodes, I'm reminded of how large the catalog is now. Since 2011 of airing episodes weekly, the podcast apps do a great job of helping us all to find episodes that are recently aired, but they're not so great at being able to find what's relevant to you right now and the topic that's important to you, and that is why we have the free membership set up on our website. I'm inviting you today to set up your free membership at coachingforleaders.com. It's going to give you access to a whole suite of resources inside of the free membership, and one of the best benefits is access to the entire library since 2011. So you can find what's most relevant to you right now, whether it's holding people accountable, managing meetings better, handling difficult situations. All of those you can find as topic areas inside of the free membership. Just go over to coachingforleaders.com, set up your free membership, you'll have access in just a few seconds, and all of the benefits inside of the free membership. And if you'd like a bit more, I'm inviting you to discover about coaching for leaders plus. It is an entire other suite of benefits that will support you practically in your leadership each week. One of those benefits each week that I'm sending your way is my weekly journal entry. Just recently, I wrote an entry on a topic I've been hearing a bit about from some of our members and listeners recently. Acquisition. Folks who are in a leadership role who are acquiring another organization or find themselves being acquired by another organization. It's a reality that many of us run into in our careers I certainly have. And I wrote a journal entry on what are the two things to absolutely not say if you're leading a team through an acquisition. It's my most recent journal entry. Every single week they come to you by email, two minute read, very quick. One of the key benefits inside of coaching for leaders plus. To find out more, just go over to coachingforleaders.plus. Coaching for leaders is edited by Andrew Kroger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest. We started a conversation today about strengths and we're going to continue that conversation next Monday with my pal Lisa Cummings. Lisa is the host of the lead through strengths podcast. Also has dedicated her career to helping leaders and organizations do a better job at leveraging strengths. Lisa and I are going to have a conversation this coming Monday on how to transcend struggles through your strengths. Join me for that conversation with Lisa. Have a great week and see you back on Monday. [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]