This is the Hopecast Network. Stories and shows you actually want to listen to. Well, what's up, work advisors! Yeah, thanks for listening, guys. We are so appreciative here at the Hopecast Network for you hitting play today, and let me tell you, we have a show in store for you. But today we have Mackenzie Judge, and she is a judge. I'm just kidding. That's her last name. She is actually the founder and CEO of Blonde Public Relations. You can go online, go on the IG, give her a follow, because she is really fun. I love getting PR people on, and it was great to get a chance to chat with her. She is really cool, and I think you're going to enjoy this. Even if you're a guy, I know you're like Blonde Public Relations. No, you will enjoy Mackenzie Judge, because I enjoyed Mackenzie Judge. I enjoyed getting a chance to chat with her. Wow, that's a lot I just said in 58 seconds. Wow, anyway. So we have a question. You know, it's the mailbag time, and I'm going to pull out the old mailbag. This is from Jill in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I've never been to Tulsa. I've been through Oklahoma, though. She says, "Brett, how did you meet your wife?" And what's your favorite thing to eat? That's two questions for the price of one Jill. I'll say this. I met my wife on eHarmony before there were apps. So I love my wife. I talk about her a lot, because she is the greatest ever. And anything she makes is my favorite thing to eat. Minus Mexican meatloaf, which she really butchers, and it's not good. And one time I like a smoke on my trigger, and she bagged up and froze some smoked turkey, and then she made smoked turkey tetrazzini with it, and it was disgusting. So out of almost 15 years of being together, she's my messed up three meals. So that's pretty good. It's pretty good clip. She's at like a 99% rate of cooking, but yeah, that's my favorite. Jill, you asked for two questions. I don't like that. I don't think you really want to know me. Anyway, thank you Hopecast again. If you haven't listened to the other shows on the network, we have a lot of great shows. I would encourage you to, when you're done listening to me talk to Mackenzie Judge, I would encourage that you listen to other shows. We have reality check with Brad and Heidi. If you like reality stars, if you're going to like this one, we have breaking news of Brad and B. That's where you get the funny news. We have the everyday runner with Erin Mayer. If you're a runner and you want to be on that show, you can. She's great, Erin is amazing at what she does, I encourage you to listen to that. What else do we have? We have movie torture. If you like bad movies and you want to listen to movie torture because me and a bunch of my buddies get together and we talk about bad movies and we have some coming on soon. We have a cooking, a chef show, we have an entrepreneur show, we have a stand up comedian show. We are creating new content for you, the listeners, to be able to listen to here on the Hopecast network. It's not just work advice for me anymore, it's a lot of other shows. We appreciate the fact that you listen, make sure you like and share, and leave us a review. Just do all that stuff because it's great for us, it helps us grow. Without further ado, let's get to Mackenzie Judge. Okay, now I have been looking forward to this conversation. I think I say that every time I come on the podcast but I really do enjoy everyone that I get to meet and today is no different. I am with Mackenzie Judge who she's pretty awesome and she's awesome because she wants to come on here and chat with me for a little while so that's the best. Mackenzie, how are you doing today? Yeah, I am good, thank you so much for having me, I'm excited about this and how are you? I am great, I have had a great day today, done some work and then came home and got to chat with you for a minute so there's a lot I want to unpack with you because you and I are two completely different people, mostly because you're a woman and I'm a man. That's the biggest difference, but before I get into that, I want to know what was Mackenzie like as a kid? Yeah, well honestly, I feel like I've always been this very extremely girly pink, just kind of always into that kind of side of aesthetic. I know aesthetic is kind of a newer term that we throw around with, I don't know, like Gen Z and all these things, obviously aesthetic wasn't really thrown around back when I was done, but I feel like I've always been that girl that is just kind of very into glam and beauty and pink and girliness and it is no different now. If anyone ever looks at my Instagram or my business, you'll see it's all very aligning across the board, I've always kind of been that way, but I grew up playing sports, which is so funny because I don't think I really give off the impression that I look like an athlete or that I wasn't an athlete, but I did play softball for 15 years of my life, which is so funny because truthfully, I feel like that was a different lifetime and maybe was a different Mackenzie, and through that, I was still a very girly girl, but I think I learned a lot about just real life situations and business through sports, actually, that has helped me progress into what I do today, so always interesting how it all works out. I like that. What position did you play in softball? I was a second baseman, so I was a middle infielder. Ooh, okay, I suck in softball. I was never good at it. I tried playing it, there's always- - I see there, don't be, you know, don't feel like I was awesome 'cause I played for 15 years. I was just on a really good team, but I wasn't- - Okay, but when I played baseball, Mackenzie, my position was right field. Now we're talking right field coach pitch, so I just sat out there, you know, I wasn't at the point where I'm throwing my hat up in the air and catching it, you know, that move is, that's tried and true for the bored kids, but no. I was never good, so I'm glad that you are good at softball 'cause I was never good at it. - Thank you. - That was an interesting time. - But there's the grown men, Mackenzie, that still eat, sleep, and breathe softball in their 30s and 40s, which is weird to me, is that not weird to you a little bit? - Yeah, I mean, I definitely have friends whose husbands like to play in those leagues, and it's hilarious. Now, if you're an MLB player or, you know, you're in the minors trying to make it totally different, different game, it's your career, but yeah, the guys that are just out there, you know, drinking beer and like, that's all they care about all day, I'm like, "Well, probably not for me," but- - But maybe Mackenzie, they don't have a wife at home or girlfriend or boyfriend at this point. Maybe they don't have any of it, right? You don't know. What generation are you, cause I'm confused so I'm gonna generate, is it Z, and why? What is the generation? Do you know those- - I actually fall into Gen Z. I think I am like the very first year or so of Gen Z. So like, I feel like, truly at heart, I am a little bit older and would probably fall into that like millennial category, but factual-wise, I am a Gen Z, I guess. - So, what are you, like 28? - 28? - I'm 24, yeah. - Oh, gosh, oversold, that is the worst. I'm so sorry. - No, it's okay. No, I get it all the time. - Go for me to log off, Mackenzie, cause you don't look 28 to me, I promise you, cause I'm 28, so we're good. - No, sometimes I get that I look 12, sometimes I get that, people think I'm 30, it's always kind of all over the place, and something I'm super open about as well is that I'm super young for what I'm doing, and I like to be open about that, because I feel like if I'm not, sometimes people think that I am a little, you know, not as prepared as they should be, but, you know, we can get into all that later if we want that. - Yeah, I want to get there, but I also want to say, how offended, so you weren't offended that's at 28, cause I think that's why 28, 24 year old is the same. - No, I honestly take it as a compliment. I feel like I get along with the older demographic better, I feel like, I would say 95% of my friends are in their 30s, if not their 40s, and most of them are married with kids, or have already been divorced or whatever it may be, I actually only have a few friends that are my age or younger, and one of them is my baby sister, so I'm like, does that even count? Probably not. - I guess I could count, I just like how you casually, maybe you missed me saying that, but you casually just glossed over the fact that I said I was 28, you didn't challenge me on that, I was waiting on you to laugh at me for that. - Well, I feel like nowadays anyone can literally be any age, I mean it's like, sometimes really young people look a lot older, and sometimes older people look like they are 20 years younger than what they are, given what we have in terms of resources now, and especially online with filters and social posts, so I'm always like, I don't question anyone anymore, I'm just like, "I have no filters Mackenzie, I want you to tell me what you think my age is right now." - I feel like you're probably in your 30s. - Oh, Mackenzie, I knew we were friends. See, now we are fast friends, I'm married, I have kids, so I fit the checkbox to be your friend at this point. - Perfect, Steve, that's what I'm talking about, we get a lot. - Mackenzie, I turn 45 this year. - Oh wow, yeah, you don't look 45 at all. - Thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, I turn 45 this year, so I'm a Gen X-er. - Got it, okay. - So is that before millennials, I'm so bad at knowing the generations in order? - Gen X, I was born in '79, so yes, but I'm before millennials, I assume. I don't know the years, I just know I've been told I'm a Gen X-er. - Someone told me I was Gen Z because of my birth year, and I was in denial for a long time because I just truly, nothing against the Gen Z-ers, I just feel like, when I think of Gen Z, I think of the tick-tock generation and everyone that's kind of into those sides of pop culture, and I just feel like that's not me, but actually, I'm a part of it. - No, but you are in the sweet spot of generations because here's the thing, here's the difference between you and I, besides the fact that you're a woman and I'm a man, but here's the difference. You have spent your whole life knowing what a cell phone and social media is, pretty much. - Very true. - I don't have that privilege, so for me, it is a challenge, Mackenzie, to try to even promote work advice, because I'm terrible, I get on the Canva, I create it, but man, it's hard. I wish I could find a free helper that would do it for me, but yeah, I can't do that. - Does anyone want to work for free and help me out? - Yeah, that's the move, that's a sad move, but that's the move. - And it's a full-time job in itself, marketing what you're doing on top of what the actual business or service model is, you have to also go in and market it, and if you're going as far as you are and all of these different things, there's so much behind doing a business nowadays with all of these digital outlets, you have to stay so in the mix to be able to keep up with the competition, it's really crazy, it's everything is so saturated nowadays. - It is, but things are so easier now, because even me, almost 45, I can go on and create stuff, I want you to, when we're done or maybe when we're doing this, check out the work advice page, critique it for me, because it's all what I've done in just trying to start from scratch, which is what you've done in what you do, so we both have that in common. We're both scrappers, I assume. I know you are. - Very, very scrappy, we always have to find ways to make things happen and don't have the biggest budget or the most resources in the world, but we find a way. - Yeah, I mean, for me, I work a full time job and I have a wife and two kids, so to balance this is, there's sacrifices that I have to figure out to make and I don't like always doing that, but I'm not 24 anymore, so I can't, but I want to get to, for one, I like your podcast, I've listened to your podcast and I know I'm not the demo for your podcast. But I like it, you know, it's the Blondie Beauty podcast and, you know, I'm just like, you had me at Blondie Beauty, I just got, I'm just listening, but I like it and I like your Instagram page, because you have something on here, will never not be extra. So I want to know what that means to you, because I think I know what extra means. - Right. - But I want to hear what extra is to Mackenzie. - Yeah, and it's funny, because I've been asked this before, and to me, when I initially put that in my bio, I think I just universally assumed everyone knew what I meant, but then I was definitely proven otherwise. To me, extra is just kind of like an abundance of just like accentuating on things you love. Like for me, I love pink, so like everything in my life is pink, like my couch is pink, all the decor in my room is pink, my dog always has pink accessories, my purses are pink, like I love just going all in on something that I'm passionate about. I like to be bougie, I'm like the first person to admit it, I love materialistic things, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and with that, you know, I mean, I like to be able to say like, I'm super extra, I go the extra distance with things to make them elevated and nice, you know, it can relate to my work, it can relate to events that I throw, it can relate to really anything that's kind of in my life, it's more so for me a way to say like, if I'm going to go all in with something, it's like so extra, it's so over the top, it's so overdone, but in a really elevated and chic way, and I think sometimes when people hear the word extra, they almost think it's, it could sound a little entitled, so I can see that, but I also kind of, you know, like to bring that back a little bit and kind of let it circulate with, you know, once people get to know me, I think they understand my personality and my characteristics that, you know, I like nice things, of course, but do I think I'm entitled? I don't think so I think I'm very humble for what I do and who I work with and all of those different things, but I definitely love to throw in extra details or an extra, you know, luxury and life or whatever that might be, that to me is kind of what I mean by extra, it's not more of like the drama side of extra, it's more of like a chic way to lifestyle and how can we make that, you know, into every little piece of what we do. Okay, there's a lot to unpack in what you just said. One, you have to probably love the movie "Legally Blonde" because it's one of your favorites, it's probably right after the devil wears product, it's up there. Really? Okay, I can't get into the devil wears product, but I like L Woods. Yes, yes. I like L Woods, that's a great, I heard they're making a new one, maybe they're not, but so when I heard extra, I immediately went to what you said of, wow, now I don't, you've come to the work advice basement now, so I mean, you're hitting like the bottom of, I don't know how this is going to help your brand is, you know, just saying that because you've entered, no, I'm just saying, you're in this, you're in the work advice basement at this point, so bougie is not what we are, but I appreciate, I appreciate a bougie lady that comes on to talk about that. Now, do you expect your men to be bougie? Honestly, that's not, it's not exactly, I think when people think of kind of like a woman or a girl who likes materialistic things, they automatically think like she has to date some rich guy or some famous guy or some guy that has some sort of status or power, and to me, it truly is the complete opposite. I've always said this growing up, I've always wanted to put myself in a position where I have my own money and can make my own money. I think with having a lot of older friends, I see a lot of my friends that are kind of trapped in situations that they wish they could get out of because they can't financially support themselves, or they're in positions where they can't work certain jobs because they've been stay at home moms for so long, whatever that might be, and through all of this, what I'm talking about is they're so codependent on their husbands, and so it's kind of like, for me, I don't mind if I date a rich guy or a poor guy, if it's someone that I am like so invested in, as long as I can take care of myself, no matter if we're together forever or end up breaking up a year in, whatever it might be, that's what's most important to me, and so to answer your question, I would love a guy that has great style and knows how to dress, and will let me throw in a few accessories to his lifestyle and things like that, but do I expect to be picked up in a Lamborghini and flown private to a birthday dinner? Absolutely not, that is to me not realistic, and usually those situations never end well either, so for me, it's not about that at all. Makenzie, I have a 2002 Honda Odyssey minivan, so... Good for you. No, that's what I'm talking about. Look, I truthfully do not judge based on a specific car or a specific outfit. If I'm attracted to a guy because of his personality or the way he treats me or the way he talks to me, then I'm happy to move forward, given whatever his life circumstances are, you know, as long as I feel like it's a fit for me, so... And let me say this, because this is something I observed about you. I never would assume you would want to marry a guy and not work, because you... You want to be self-sufficient. You do not let off any vibe that you are all about. What do they call that? Sugar mama? Yes, sugar mama. Yes. Speak of that. Okay, so for the listeners right now, I know Makenzie because I met her through getting Jackie on reality check with Heidi from Survivor or not. And Jackie was great. She taught me a couple things that I didn't know. One, she taught me what a situation ship is. I didn't know that. Like a Gen Z term, see? Yeah. Heidi said, "Brad, you're showing your age." But I was like, "What's that?" And she goes, "That's where you know, just hang out and have fun and do stuff." But there's no commitment. And I said, "Well, I've never had a situation ship." Okay, I also learned this. Makenzie, I'm letting you in on this. No, I didn't notice. You probably have heard this from Jackie. She played volleyball as you played softball. She said when she was in high school, the daddies would come watch her. So I was like, "Jackie, you'll be able to hear this when it drops." I said, "Jackie, that's kind of weird, right? Like the the dads are coming to watch you play volleyball." And she said, "No, Brad. Daddy is the high school boys." And you're like, "We're talking about the attractive guys that are my age. Not their dads, that's so funny." I was assuming like people my age in their 40s were coming to watch high school girls. And I'm like, "That's kind of weird." And she's like, "No, no, daddy." I'm like, "Okay, this is it was funny. I'm just letting you in a little what happened. It was great." But I say that to say this. She was on Love Is Blind. Would you go on Love Is Blind first off? Honestly, I don't think I'm built for something like that. I do not think I would deal well. And I'll be the first to say this, right? So I have a PR agency that has a talent division. So I work with a lot of people that are on TV often. And I see what comes with that. And I think if you're built for it, do it. Because there are a lot of benefits, a lot of doors that can open, a lot of money that you can make from going on a springboard like a reality show. I personally do not think I would last very long with the backlash that might come at me on social. It no matter how you act on TV, there's always paters. And I've learned this from working with fashion or sweethearts to villains of housewives shows. No matter what side of the spectrum you're on, there are always people that are going to say something about you and come after you. And they're negative. That's what these Instagram trolls do all day. And I don't know how they have the time to just scrutinize and criticize everyone. But I truthfully do not think I could ever last on any kind of show. Now, I'm all about hustling and working hard and making money. But I don't think I ever want to be a part of any kind of personality fame whatsoever. I think I'm happy in my little bubble. But you age your own because there's so many people that are built for it and like are great at it. But I think I would not last long. Mackenzie, you're about to really take off your own work advice from me. I mean, there's this is the launching pad for careers. You just be prepared. You're going to hear from the bachelor now. They're going to have you on the bachelor. No, but the idea of meeting someone through a wall is fascinating to me. It is really interesting. The concept of the show, how they it's very interesting. Yeah, because I've had Sam roll from married at first sight. You never watched that show. She comes on the podcast network a lot. She'll talk to me. She had to get married sight unseen where Jackie got to meet Marshall through a wall, which I think is a little better. A little bit, yeah, a little bit more time leading up to the actual commitment. Yes, yes. Yeah, but okay. So you get Jackie. I want to know. So you decide to start a PR agency, which is incredible. Like first, how did you how did you birth this? And and I'm going to get back to your beauty tips in a minute, but I want to get to this now. How did you birth the PR firm? Yeah, so in college, I played two years of softball, and I was finally ready to just kind of be done playing after 15 years and getting two years of school paid for. So I transferred to ASU to finish as a student. And in that time frame, I landed an internship with a contributor who wrote for Forbes. And she also had her own podcast over at Dear Media Network, if you're familiar with, you know, like the toast or skinny not fat or the skinny confidential. They're all kind of podcasts that are represented over there. And so I decided to really just go all in on this internship and learn as much as I could. And I was also simultaneously studying business at ASU. Through this time frame, what I thought I was seeing at my internship was business, but it really was a lot of PR. I was helping her primarily on the podcast side, but I was learning so much about social media and marketing and watching her go to all of these big beauty events that also had all of these editors there and personalities and creators and brands that I loved. And I just loved the atmosphere and kind of everything that I was being connected to through her. And I worked for her for free for two years because I saw such value in the connections I was making and the experience I was gaining. And I would out of my own pocket travel from Arizona to California to go, you know, shadow her and watch her and be in the studio and go to events and just truthfully learn. And I was very grateful that I was in a position to be able to do this because I know a lot of people aren't, but I feel like it served me so, so well. And when I realized what I was seeing was a lot of PR-esque related things, I decided to kind of jump rope and go work for a PR agency when I graduated from ASU. And I worked for two firms. I worked for one very startup firm, very much like me, only a few employees, you know, a decent foundational client roster, but nothing super big or, you know, in this crazy, you know, category yet. And then I also worked for more of an established firm and got to see kind of the difference of like what that next level really looked like. And through doing that, I saw a lot of things that I liked and also really did not like within both businesses and was just kind of able to be like a sponge and absorb and continue to grow my database of connections through working at these agencies and growing events and doing celebrity relations and all of those different things. And it's worth noting too, I grew up in a very entrepreneurial household. My parents owned their own businesses for 30 years. So it's all I saw growing up was my dad not only running my softball team and my softball life, but also owning his own businesses with my mom being in on it with him. And so I always knew I wanted my own thing. I just thought maybe I would formulate cosmetics or maybe I would own some kind of beauty brand, which is still, you know, I love that category. But I think through watching all of these different businesses and learning about the different sides of them through traveling and through being at fashion weeks and things like that, I was like, Oh, I just love my passion is the inner workings of businesses that pertain to my passion. So anything within beauty or passion or travel or luxury or lifestyle, I just love the inner workings of all the different things that make it work and all the details that have to go into it for something to come to fruition. It's very like satisfying to me. And so once I worked for these farms for a little bit and decided, you know, okay, I feel pretty capped here. I've been working my butt off for a few years and there's no promotion that's ever going to happen. And the clients just aren't exactly who I want to be working with. I kind of had a little spark light in me that was like, well, I watched my parents do this forever. I know I really want something like this. I'm really passionate. I feel like I've spent the last five years really gaining a lot of knowledge and connections and experience. I literally had the idea to start at last April and I launched it last May within one month and just literally went for it. I didn't have one client on my roster. I didn't have one dollar in my business account. And I said, let's just try it. And it did. And it's been really, really amazing ever since. And I'm so, so grateful for where we're at and what we've been able to do in the last year. But it really was just kind of that entrepreneurial risk that people talk about where I literally just said, okay, here we go. We're trying it. If it fails, it fails. But I'm ready to just go after what I think I've always really wanted. And truthfully, I feel like it's worked out a lot better than I really could have imagined a year ago at this time. What you said, passion. I think that a lot of people don't know what they're truly passionate about. It's true. Yeah. I mean, for me, if you yours is what you just explained and I could have probably guessed a little bit of that if we play out. I would have said you were passionate about this and I would have missed a few. For me, it's connecting with people. That's my passion. Like I like meeting people. I like when someone comes on, if the biggest compliment that I get paid from people is this, I feel like we've been friends forever. And we could just chat. That's a great compliment. But I'm with you. Like, it's this is, it's all entrepreneur. Entreprenewing. Is that how you set? Anyways, all entrepreneur. Yeah, I'm gonna start using that. In what we do, right? I started from scratch. Nothing. No, no followers. Nothing. I don't have a ton now. But the point is you started from scratch and look at where you're at. And, you know, what you mentioned something in your, in what you're just saying. There's things you liked and things you didn't like. Right. What is something you liked and what is something you didn't like that you said, I'm not bringing to this. Right. So I think some things that I really liked and loved that I got to experience was learning how to throw events in a media and creator setting. I think for me, again, I love like a luxury aesthetic and all the little details. And so throwing events like feeds my soul because I get to start throwing in all these details to make it just so Instagrammable and aesthetic. And it's, you know, camera ready and all of these different things. So the event side of things and agencies, I really loved learning about. And I think that all really relates a lot with marketing strategies and making sure people want to post about certain things and making sure the gift bags are all set up accurately and all of these different things. And of course, there were other little things that I loved about the agency world. But I would say event planning is what I really, really loved. What I did not love about the agency side and not every agency is like this, but I feel like I saw a lot of what we like to call black market PR, which is essentially advertising PR without clients knowing that it's advertising PR. So in PR, as some people know, and people who are in the industry may not know, there is earned media and there is paid to play media. And so when you pay to play, it's very cut dry, straight and forward. You pay us X amount of money for us to put you in this magazine or for you to be on the fourth 30 under 30 list or for you to win this award, you can pay your way to all of these things nowadays where it's really and so to me, obviously, that's not genuine, right? That's kind of like, say, does this editor really love my product or do they just want money? You know, it's pretty obvious. However, my firm specifically only goes after earned media. We will never pay for one piece of media. We will never carry any kind of paid advertising spot for a client whatsoever. If they want to pay for media, they can do that on their own. But truthfully, you don't really need a PR agency at that point. You're just going to go pay for a bunch of media. So to me, something that I saw in the agency world that I just could not get behind because I saw my parents own such an ethical, high moral business model. My dad is like the most cut dry, honest guy I would ever ever come across. And he's also like me. We're freaks about people. If I happened to lie, I would literally think about it. That's all I'd be able to think about. Someone's going to know I lied. Someone's going to know that. So I can't lie. I just don't have it in me. And my dad's the same way. So I kind of grew up that way. And so when I would watch things in PR kind of go that route and I would find out about it, it wouldn't be done through my work specifically. But knowing that it was tied to the same company I was working for, I didn't like it. So when clients know that they're paying to play, I think it's okay. For example, if we have a beauty brand who is launching, I don't know, a Christmas line on December 1st, and they're like, I would just absolutely die to have a feature in a lore magazine for Christmas. It's all I care about. I know it's X amount of dollars. I'm going to do it. I would say, okay, great, you do that. That's all you. But what other firms that I worked for would do was not tell clients that their articles were paid to play. They would tell them that the agency earned them. So for example, if I paid for a client to be in Forbes and then presented it to my client as if they earned it in Forbes, to me, I feel like that's a scam. But that's what I would see all the time in PR. I'm confused. Oh, go for it. I'm confused. Hold on. I mean, interrupt you, but I'm confused about that. So as a PR agency, how are you making money if you're paying for your client to get into? You got to explain this to me because that's. So this is what's crazy about the PR industry too. And I would say most people that have ever tried to do PR have probably been quoted anywhere between, it's a wide range, but I would say probably anywhere between three and 10 grand for a retainer. When articles are not being pushed through in an earned basis, these agencies go and buy media using that huge retainer that you paid them because truthfully, there's no reason to be charging someone that much for PR. I don't understand the agencies that are charging these enormous rates and understand everyone wants to make money and this is their livelihood. But to me, it would never make sense for me to ask someone for $8,000 a month in exchange for PR because I'm like, wait a minute, this is insane. So what they're doing, it's obviously taking a portion of that for themselves within a lot of these agencies and not all of them, but ones that I have definitely seen will take some of that money and put it right towards pay to play articles so that clients are happy that they're landing all of this amazing media and press. But at the end of the day, it's just kind of like a, it's a cycle of just, it's not real, you know, it's not actually happening that way. Okay, please do not take offense to this, but this is how I envisioned how your job works. Okay, let's say you're representing me. I thought it worked like you would get me gigs, like, you know, and pop. I hate to interrupt what you're doing now, but something very important I need to let you know about. When you purchase serious coffee beans, we want you to try to enjoy each brew for two reasons. Number one, because you're a part of something bigger, making a positive impact around the world. And number two, because we did not compromise on the quality of coffee, you're drinking some of the best coffee in the world. 100% of profits are donated to non-profits that are fighting injustice facing humans around the world. Well, that's powerful. Generous is best known for especially coffee, but the heartbeat of generous is their hope to use for profit business for good. In 2024, generous is hoping to provide coffee to churches around the U.S. to spread a message within congregations that churches care about people even down to the coffee they are serving and the people they enjoy. I apologize for that extremely long run on sentence. If you have interest in hearing more about generous coffee, please reach out to their founder, Ben Higgins, at beenHiggins@journusmovement.com. Thank you and back to our scheduled podcast. Okay, I know I just interrupted a great conversation, but my name is Brad and you may be listening to me or any of the other talent we have on this network at HopeCast. We want to thank you for listening, but also we want you to like and subscribe to the show you're listening to. So, when you're done listening, go on the iTunes or the Spotify and leave a great review if you like it and follow the show on Instagram and any other platforms that it's on. I think we're on TikTok, so follow us on TikTok, but make sure you leave us a review. We love good reviews here at the HopeCast Network. Now, I guess I'll let you get back to your show. Whatever they pay me, if they pay me $2,000 to be in that you take 20%, whatever your percentage, I don't know. That's when you get paid kind of like a realtor that's selling a house, they get paid when they sell the house. You are working to sell me so you make more money. That's our fault. Am I? No, you're partly right. So, that's kind of a little bit more like a management-styled scope. So, for example, when we're going after PR, I charge clients a retainer because there is a lot of back-end work that it takes to get something to a published finish line, right? Whether it is getting you on a broadcast segment, whether it is getting you published in Vogue, whatever it might be. There's a lot of work in negotiating and back-and-forth with editors and media list building and follow-ups and all of these things, pitch creating and media kit curation and getting updated imagery to push through all of these different things that end up helping us get to the finish line. So, with a retainer on a PR scope, these clients are paying for the work that gets you to the finish line. It doesn't actually pay for this finished product, if that makes sense. That's kind of like a PR scope because truthfully, PR is never guaranteed. I can't promise you that I'm going to be able to get you published in XYZ Magazine that you want to be in. Will we go after it? Of course. Will there be other opportunities along the way? Sure. But can I absolutely guarantee that you are going to be informed by the end of the year? No, there's no way for me to guarantee that unless you go and pay for it. But I'm not going to do that. So, there's no way for us to guarantee that. Now, with a management-styled retainer, which is a commission base, that's more for talent. So, for example, if you went on love is blind and we booked you appearances and you made money off of that or we booked you brand deals that you posted on about social, then yes, then we could take a percentage of that and that is a little bit different than a PR-styled scope. Does that make sense? You have really opened my eyes to the PR world. I did not realize that. Yeah. And listeners, she did promise me that I would be in GQ. So, I've got to figure out how to get there. Yeah. I've got a suit. I told Jackie, I have one suit is I use it for funerals and for weddings. I said, because I told her, I said, I'll marry you and your man. I'm ordained. And she said, you can't marry me in the same suit, you do eulogies. Yeah, that's scary. That was a good line. Yeah. But anyway, it's an H&M suit. Now, that's stylish, right? That's very yes. We love it. What's your good stuff? Huh? Oh, they do and they're cheaper. Yeah. I'm a thrifter, though. See, I love to buy. I love to find like a penguin shirt in the thrift store. It's like a rush for me. I feel like it's a reward. I love it. I've been Sherman in the thrift store. Like, it's a r- I oh my gosh. I went into a thrift store in Texas last month, found some American Eagle jeans. I don't think American Eagle is that popular anymore, but they're nice skinny jeans. They got the the band, the weight. Oh my gosh, I paid like eight bucks for those. And I feel like I'm getting one over on the man. That's what I'm saying. I love it. So what's your favorite brand? Oh my gosh. You want to wear all brand like in the world? No, brand of clothes that you, if I were to buy you a gift and you said I want to buy your shirt, which man, if you're listening, if your girlfriend or wife tells you to buy her shirt, please refrain because it will not in will. But if I was to buy you one, what brand would you like? Well, I'm a sucker for revolve. I feel like I buy all in my clothes on revolve. They're the best. And what's great about revolve is you can filter down to like. I've never heard of revolve. Oh man, you're definitely not going to put me as one of your clients because I don't even know what revolve is. Good. So revolve is essentially like the online version of Nordstrom. Like it is like the biggest, I would say, mid to high end department store to exist for girls, I would say between like 20 and 40. And they have so many different brands, all of the influencer owned brands, all of the celebrity owned brands, they have some designer brands, a lot of up and coming brands, just very, very, very curated selections. But that will really work for anyone. And that's why I love it. You can really filter down to like exactly what you're looking for in terms of color and pricing and sizing and embellishments. And whatever you're looking for, you can literally find on revolve. So I always, it's my first place I always go to whenever I need to get an event outfit or a vacation outfit or whatever it might be revolves the go to for me. Okay, I'm going to tell you my go to website first off. Okay. Again, I'm going to preface this married man to kids. So I have to, I have to stretch the dollar life. This is normal. I've talked about this before on a different podcast. Have you ever heard of the DH gate? I feel like I've, yes. Wait, is that the place where you can get like the designer dupes on TikTok? Yes. Oh my gosh. This. Let me tell you Mackenzie. My shoe game is like no other like I get compliments on my shoes. I'll be in the grocery store and I'll have dudes walk up to me and go. I love your shoes and I'll be like, thanks. Now, I'm like you. I can't lie. Like to me, I love bragging that they're fakes because it's a rush to get them. So, but if I do, I don't know is in the grocery store and he's just walking by and he says, I like your shoes. I'm not going to stop and say, Oh, by the way, but if if somebody I know comes up and says, where'd you get your shoes? And I'll be like, okay, I just got these in the, in the mail like three weeks ago, the Travis Scott's Air Jordans. Okay. They, they go for around 1,300 bucks on, on Amazon. Yes. There's no way I pay this. Travis Scott, maybe search the wall or Travis Scott. Search the Scott's one and you'll see what I'm talking about. I paid 50 bucks and there is not, I have a friend who's a sneaker head. He has looked at my shoes and has been like, I would think they're real. They, they, they pass as total real. I got the mocha, the white mochas. I got the Jordan floors. Some of them are going for 1500. That's pretty. Yeah. It's, there's no way I'd pay that. I got the Jordan floors. I get the Jordan fives. I got the Jordan ones. I bought my wife the dunks. Hmm. You're like my stream game. It's up here. You can't touch it. You, I'm just saying like Mackenzie, if, if I was a shoe model, it would be amazing. You know, I, I don't always say this on, on the podcast, but my actual job, I'm a pastor at a church. So, yeah. So when I'm on stage, my goal is to be on preachers and sneakers. You know, you've seen that on Instagram, right? Follow preachers and sneakers because they spotlight these preachers that wear these 800 dollar shoes. I want to be on there. I do. It's even though they're fakes. I mean, they're fakes, but Mackenzie, it makes me feel like I'm with you because for so many years, I wore cheap shoes because I would give to my kids before I gave to myself. Now, I'm like, honey, for father's day, DH gate, for my birthday, DH gate. That's what I want. It is just my move. Everyone loves the dupes right now. I will say, I'm not going to say names because I don't know if they'd want it out there, but there are pretty high end people that I have talked to in media that are very well known. And they tell me all the time, like, the dupes are the way to go and the dupes are this. And I haven't tapped into that market yet because I'm still afraid of like all the scams. And I don't know. It's just you won't get scammed. I'm going to send you a link, Mackenzie. You won't get scammed. Here's the thing. Let me tell you this. I'm going to, I'm going to name drop on here because it's my podcast and I can do that. I'm putting it out there. I'm putting it out there. My friend, he's a friend now. We become friends. Ben Higgins, bachelor from bachelor 20. He's my buddy. Uh, we've hung out. We text each other. Yeah, he is in the D H gate now. He I've got him converted. I text him photos of my new shoes. He's D H gating it. Now he may deny it on here, but he's a D H gator now. I'm just letting you know that that's interesting. Okay. Yeah, he was my most famous friend, but now I have Mackenzie. Yep. Sorry, Ben. I have surpassed. You've surpassed the bachelor and the bachelor. Yeah. And the bachelor. He was on the bachelorette too. Um, okay, Mackenzie, I want you to pit. What is I want to hear your pitch to me as if if you were warning me, I want to hear what you would say to entice me to want to come to your agency? What's your elevator pitch? It's got to be like a minute, right? Yeah. Okay. Well, I just put you on the spot, by the way. Okay. Totally fine. So I'm assuming what are the goals here? We want to grow your podcast and grow you as a personality. Is that kind of what we're going for here? Well, no, what do you think you've been on? You've been on here chat with me for 40 minutes. What do you think I need? Okay. Well, I think what we could do, you mentioned that you don't really love the whole social side of your podcast. So that was kind of step number one is let's put some marketing strategies into place to help elevate your social game to help you kind of curate to your demographic and your main audience that you want to target so that we can get more listeners in. And therefore we can help you to start monetizing your podcast because now we'll have engagements and stats to help you get to that next level. So let's start bringing in who are brands that you love? Who do you want to work with? What are ones that are realistic that we could bring in and start doing advertising spots with on the podcast? Let's push you as a host in the media. Let's talk about the different kinds of guests that you've been able to land and bring on. Let's talk about your past and talk about how you've been connected with Heidi and start bringing her in because she's a notable name in the media. I would say these are all kind of things that I would initially want to start doing and kind of see where we could flow into with other opportunities. But initially I think helping you market your podcast would be step number one while utilizing social and kind of pitching out who you've had on the podcast by curating a great media kit that has a lot of stats and past guests and notable names and all of the things that the media loves. But I feel like that would be a good certain point for us. Well, you sold me. Here's the thing. I love everything you said there because I definitely need it. Ben Higgins' generous coffee does sponsor the pod. It's only because he's my bud, right? I lost my train of fault there. Mackenzie, I was talking about the monetization. That's a tough thing. When I get this reply, because I probably send out, and you probably do this too at times, you've done this before for your pod. I probably send out 300 because I find people, I only bring people on that I find interesting, right? I'm not going to bring somebody on that I don't care about what they do because it will show in the way we chat. I might get three responses out of 100, right? That's just the life. But when I do get this response, I've immediately turned off, especially if they are not huge. Ben Higgins has a million followers on the Instagram. That's a lot. I've gotten this from 3,000 followers from 2,000. What are your stats? What's your reach? And I'm always like, yeah, it's annoying to me. Does that annoy you, Mackenzie? Because you didn't ask me that. And how'd you ask me that? Probably would have turned me off a little bit. But it didn't. Because you didn't seem to care. You're like, you know what? I like the sky. Let's roll. So my thing with this is I understand the flip side of it for people, right? Because there are brands that I work with that do want to pay creators to post for them. So we ask for their rates and we ask for their engagement to understand what do their story views look like? What do their link links look like? Is this going to convert an ROI for us if we pay you X amount of dollars for you to post about our brand with links to shop? So I understand that side of it. But there's also a flip side of it to when you're doing something like this that's a little bit more media focus to where we can use things like your past guests for leverage. I feel like that speaks a little bit more volumes than always kind of the downloads of the episode or the overall viewership of the show. Because if you have people like Ben Higgins supporting you or whatever TV personalities you've made, you may have had on, you can use them as leverage and say, hey, everyone always reposts our episodes. So whatever our, you know, engagement looks like on our personal Instagram or on our actual show is not what's actually happening in the overall grand scope because we have people like Ben Higgins endorsing us and we have people like him posting about us. So on top of whatever we're doing, we also have Jackie bonds or we also have Ben Higgins also helping us with our engagement stats, which we can't see their numbers, but we know that they're helping us outreach as well. Like to use people who have shows like you and utilize their, you know, leverage of past guests and things that they've done in the past, whether it's events or sponsorships at the Oscars, whatever it may be to help leverage brands to work with you because it's not always about just specifically the podcast, but also everyone that's around the podcast helping it. So if you can get a good group of people around you, which it sounds like you do, to help leverage you with that moving forward, then I see, you know, we don't have to always say, but what are your downloads per episode? And what did, what numbers do you hit in the UK versus the US? And I think, you know, to a point, yes, they're important for the brands to understand, but also if you can use the things that you have for leverage, then I think that's kind of what they, what they're wanting anyways, who will be posting about the episodes that you're endorsing? It would be X, Y, and Z. I like that. See, you've motivated me because it, you and I, we started at the bottom, right? Well, I started the bottom, you were still you're a little more elevated than I am. And, you know, I would put my, I would put my roster of people that's been on with me up against a lot of the bigger ones. Do, do your stuff. When we get done, scroll and see who I've been on. You can see it. Like, I, I work it. Like, I'm constantly grind. I'm a, I'm a scrapper like you. This isn't a podcast about me. I feel like I'm just talking about myself, but, but you've helped me, you've motivated me because there's times McKinsey, do you get in this where you're like, what the crap am I doing, man? Like, I'm just frustrated because I get like that sometimes, and I have my buddies who will then tell me, you need to look at this and this and this. This is why it's winning. Yeah. No, there's definitely times, of course, I feel like for anyone in business, especially myself, where I'm like, Oh my God, like this is so crazy. Like, I don't have to make it this stressful, but I put myself in this stressful situation. So how do we get out of it? How do we not make situations like this in the future? But no, there's definitely times that I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is a lot. And not complaining would rather be doing what I'm doing than sitting at some cubicle corporate job, of course, always. But there are definitely times where I've made decisions that I'm like, okay, probably won't be doing this again in the future because of how I feel currently. So I get it. Hey, my biggest annoyance is this and you might have this annoyance with your pod is when you do bring someone on and they never share it. I'm like, why did you waste your time? You wasted your time. You didn't waste mine because I can still share it on my platform. But you've wasted your time. Yeah, I've definitely had people in the past too that didn't really put in much effort to promote, you know, their side of what we did or anything. And usually when I book a guest and, you know, I always will say something like, if you'd like to share, we can create any kind of social assets that, you know, whether you needed to curate to your feed or curate to your stories, and you needed to meet a certain color palette or a certain font to match your branding. Like, I'm always happy to create whatever you need that you're happy to promote with me. And I will say 99% of the time, people are really nice about it and they at least reshare or, you know, comment or whatever it may be. But yeah, I've definitely had a guest here and there that you're kind of like, crickets. And you're like, yeah, McKinsey's like, I will never share the spread. I'm just letting you know that. Okay, so I want to, I want to, as we wind this down, I want to talk a little bit about, I want us to go through your, you're getting ready. Because I want to, first off, what's the average time it takes for you to get ready? I'm quick. I can do it in under 30 minutes. Oh, see, I was expecting an hour. I was expecting an hour, if I wanted to, but I can also be ready in 30 minutes. Like, if someone told me right now, like, Oh, we're booking your client for this, it's in an hour. I'd be like, I'm out the door in 30. I'll be there. Start to finish. But I don't know. I mean, I always start with hair. And I just curl my hair today. It's not the best, but I always curl my hair with a wand. I always wear it like the same every day. So it's pretty easy. And then for makeup, I'm pretty easy as well. I kind of just put on a CC cream, fill in my brows. And then I have lash extensions. So these are on all the time, which are such a lifesaver and time saver. And that's part of why I do it so that I can get ready so fast. But really, it's like a two product makeup routine. And then if I'm getting like really glam, of course, I'll go in with some shadow and maybe highlight and bronze a little bit, but throw on a lip and I'm I'm out. Okay. See, I was going to see, I was going to compare my getting ready to yours. I don't have lash extensions. I don't know what a brow extension is. I guess I just draw them out like just filling them in with a pencil. Oh, okay. What about what's your take on the draw in the eyebrows move? Yeah, that's what I do. Like with a, with an eyebrow pencil. No, you have no hair up here. You just draw them. What do you mean? Okay, just imagine I shaved your eyebrows off. And then I drew with a marker like with a makeup pen, your eyebrow. Is that cool? I mean, I think like, just like, like, wait, what are we talking about? I don't know. Are you, we mean, like people who don't have any brow hair, like naturally? There's people that shave their brows and then mark them in like tattoo them in, which is weird to me. I will say, yeah, I will say, like, microblading is a huge, like, beauty trend right now that I know a lot of people like to do. Typically though, you can do it with normal brow hair and it's just meant to be like a semi-permanent. It usually lasts about a year. It's kind of like a semi-permanent tattoo, but it's like a very realistic looking brow. And I've had, I've seen people do that with hair. But you know, a lot of people who maybe lose their hair due to, I have a friend who has alopecia, especially like cancer patients, things like that, this microblading is incredible because it truly can look so real. So I'm all for it if you're like a good candidate for it. I'm amazed at all the work women do. Like, I could not, like, for me, I go in, I take a shower. I fix my hair, brush my teeth, put my clothes on, wrinkled, I don't care. I'm good. But you have to put eyelashes in, draw your eyebrows, get your hair curled. If you have extensions, you got to go get extensions. You got a problem. Yeah, you got to shave the armpits. I mean, you got to make it, there's so much work, Mackenzie. I just, I would give up if I was a girl, I would be like, I can't do this anymore. It just becomes a part of your routine. And it's just kind of like a part of your daily life. And you know, once you're in it, you're in it. But I get it. If it wasn't something you did every day, I could see why it would be such like a, like a far-fetched, like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you do all of this. But women will say men spend way too much time on the toilet. But women spend way too much time in front of the mirror. I think it's a give and take. That's true. No, and I have friends too, who literally take like an hour to do makeup. And I'm like, come on, we've got to go. But, you know, as quick as I can make my routine the better, because I'm always kind of like, go, go, go. But I thoroughly enjoy the process as well, though, because I am so like immersed in the beauty world. And I love products and trying things. So it is still kind of like, in my form of like therapy, that's kind of what it is to me. Like, I just love products and the industry. And it's fun for me. But on like a realistic daily basis, we got to be quick. Yeah, I'm with you. I don't have the patience for getting red. My wife's really good. She gets ready in like 15 minutes. When bam, she's good. I try to date, I try to date in a smoker one time in Kinsey. And the smoke breaks were just killing my, we went on two dates. I'm like, I can't do it anymore. I can't stop while you smoke. It's, it's gross. Can't do it. And I don't understand it. Yeah. But I don't understand the smokers. But this was like 20 years ago. So you were just, you know, a toddler at this point. You were just little mckinsey. Yeah, you were four. You were four. And I was older. Um, mckinsey, I have thoroughly enjoyed this today. You have opened my eyes to the beauty world. What do you have going on now that you can promote? And by the way, when I promote this, I want you to send me a photo with no makeup, no eyebrows, anything. And I'm just going to share that as your promotional pictures. That's perfect. That's great. I'm just kidding. I would never do that. I'm like, I can definitely do the no makeup, but the lashes don't come off. So we'll have to at least be a little glam. But I can photoshop those off. What I didn't tell you is I'm like a karate, I'm like a karate expert when it comes to photoshopping. You bought that though. See, that's good. You bought that I'm young and that I'm a photoshop guru. But I'm not unless you give me a reason to not believe you, I'm gonna trust you. And I'm not kind of a person, but you can trust me. What, what do you got going on? What do I have going on? So currently just extremely busy with work. So anything that is like PR and marketing related, I always am searching for new clients. If there's anyone that wants to, you know, try out PR for the first time, I feel like we're a good place to start because we are a newer agency and I am very flexible in the sense of the way that I work with clients, whereas I feel like a lot of agencies are not. They're very cookie cutter in their ways as they get more established. But really anyone that fits the bill of being related to beauty, fashion, wellness, lifestyle, luxury, travel in the brand and talent categories, I'm always searching for new clients and love to just be super immersed in work and all the different things. But really other than that, I don't have a whole lot going on. Work is kind of life right now. But well, you're always welcome here. And anytime you want to send your talent to work advice, we can make this happen. We'll promote your brands. You'll be the official PR unpaid PR representative of work advice for me. It's amazing though, you bring up how you worked for free. You can find people to do it for free. Like, you know, Heidi, I joke with Heidi all the time. I love Heidi because she comes on and doesn't get paid anything. You know, she's here. So yeah, it's funny. You can find those people that love this and they just want to do it. So yeah, now you're agency, I will promote your agency for sure. How many clients do you have? I think currently we have 12 on roster. I could be give or take. I haven't counted in a minute, but I think we're at 12, which is a good number for us right now because we're a small team of three and, you know, we're able to delegate right now, but I'm very also strongly passionate about like building a team with the roster so that we can always be able to give the clients as much attention as they deserve. So I like that. But we're we've got a good foundation going. I love it. You sound well. Yeah, I love it. Well, Mackenzie, thank you so much for coming on work advice for me. I will be following your career. Please listen to her podcast. It's great. She's awesome. You're always welcome to come back. Please come back to work advice for me. I'd like to have another conversation with you. I would love to. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thanks. Bye now. Well, thank you, Mackenzie, for spending some time chatting with me. It was a blast. Please, if you're listening, follow Mackenzie on Instagram. You will see her show notes or her links in the show notes. You will not see her show notes. You will see show notes, but you'll see her links in the show notes to follow Mackenzie. Again, you're always welcome to come home, Mackenzie. Thank you so much. And if you're listening right now, you know the rule. You know the routine. Like and subscribe. I tune Spotify. Follow us on the IG. Follow all the shows. And thank you. Hope cast for making this podcast possible. We appreciate it. And we more importantly appreciate you, the listener. So without further ado, I think I said that earlier. With that being said, this is work advice for me. I'm your host, Brad, and I will catch you on the flip side. [Music] [Music] [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
