Test Match Special

Brain surgeries, stress fractures and aviation: the Ricky Ellcock story

Simon Mann sits down with former England bowler Ricky Ellcock to take a look back at his extraordinary life.

Ricky discusses the FOUR life-saving brain surgeries he went through, having to prematurely retire from cricket because of SIX stress fractures in his back, and switching is focus to aviation and becoming the first black captain of Virgin Atlantic.

Duration:: 35m
Broadcast on:: 29 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile unlimited! Premium wireless! Heading to get 30-30, heading to get 20-20, 20-20, heading to get 20-20, heading to get 15-15, 15-15, just 15 bucks a month. So... Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up for three months plus taxes and fees, promoting for new customers for limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month, slows. Full turns at mintmobile.com. This season, Instacart has your back to school. As in, they've got your back to school lunch favorites, like snack packs and fresh fruit. And they've got your back to school supplies, like backpacks, binders, and pencils. And they've got your back when your kid casually tells you they have a huge school project to do tomorrow. Let's face it, we were all that kid. So, first, call your parents to say I'm sorry and then download the Instacart app to get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes all school year long. Get a $0 delivery fee with your first three orders while supplies last, minimum $10 in order, additional terms apply. BBC sounds, music, radio, podcasts. You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Simon Mann and welcome to a bonus Test Match special podcast. During England's test against West Indies, I spoke to former England Bola, Ricky Elcock from the TMS box at Esbriston. Ricky's extraordinary story includes four life-saving brain surgeries, prematurely retiring from cricket, and being the first black captain at Virgin Atlantic. You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Our beta-spawned fast bowler who played counter cricket for Worcestershire and Middlesex, and was seen at the time as a future star for England. I can remember you bowling in at the speed of light at Cheltenham one day, Ricky. Ricky Elcock was called up for a tour of the West Indies in 1990 with a reputation as one of the fastest boulders in the country. But cruelly, he was injured almost before the tour had begun with a stress fracture to the back and never really recovered. He had to find a new career. He relocated to the USA. Actually, you could be telling us all this, because it's your life story, but you qualified as a commercial airline pilot. First, black captain with Virgin Atlantic, a life of ups and downs, including receiving four life-saving brain operations in the space of eight weeks. It's all in his autobiography, Balls to Fly. Welcome to Test Match Special, Ricky. Thank you very much. There's a lot to talk about, isn't there? Let's go back to the start. You grew up in Barbados. When did you know you had something special as a cricketer? Probably about ten years ago when I went into Commermere. And initially, that's a school in Barbados. Yes, a school in Barbados. I was a careless graphic. I went to school there. Chris Jordan faced a reality, probably where they all went to school there. But I arrived there as a ten-year-old and decided I wanted to play a cricket with a big boy. I found out that it wasn't as easy as that to actually bat against them. It was preferable to try and ball a cricket ball as quick as I possibly could at them. So that was my initial. And I progressed fairly quickly from there as a ten-year-old into playing first division cricket, probably at 14 years early in Barbados. When I was at school, all I wanted to do was play sport. Were you interested in your studies as well? I suppose if I was born in today, they would say I had ADHD or something like that. I was a kind of kid that wanted to jump as high as I could and run as fast as I could. I had two things going for me. Obviously growing up in a incredibly poor environment. But I had two things going for me. One, that I was relatively clever, Charles. And the second one, that I was relatively athletic, Charles. The first one got me into common mere school, which is a grammar school in Barbados. And the second one was got me a scholarship into Melbourne College here in England. So how did that come about? So you're moving at what age? Fifteen years old. So how did you get a scholarship in Melbourne? How did that sort of talk? Well, I played against Melbourne as a 14-year-old in Barbados and scared them. You know, 14 years I could bowl fairly quickly. What do you reckon you were at 14 in terms of miles per hour? Oh, I'd have been man speed. I'd tell you that, 14 years old. I mean, I was playing first division at that age in Barbados. So, you know, I was playing with the big boys, you know, Clark and Daniel and people like that. But so I scared them. And I think they weren't aware of thought, you know. You'd much rather bring this kid to England and let him have a go at other public schools in England, you know. So you came over at 14. Was that, I mean, how many times you'd been outside of Barbados? I hardly left my village. So, you know, I played against them and scared them. And they said, look, bring you over to England. And that stage was quite advanced. So, as a matter of fact, I went down to the 1991 test in Barbados, which is where Roland Butcher met his debut as the first black player for England. It's also where Michael Holden bolded that famous over to Jeffrey. To Jeffrey. And also, where Kenny Burnton died and that particular test match. And all Alan Smith, who was the manager, funny enough from here at Edgberg said, he invited me to ball in the nets at 15 years old. I was balling at the England team in the nets in 1981. So I had a really good start and a good blessing. So then you go to Malvern, go to Malvern. What was that like, that transition from being in Barbados? You've hardly been out of your village and then you're suddenly involved in college. Absolutely. Century overload. As you could imagine, you know, I was seeing new things. I was hearing new things, smelling new things, tasting new things. You know, the first I had seen a color television. And not only was it a color television, but it actually changed channels by itself. I didn't know that a remote controller existed. You know, a toaster. Can you imagine a toaster? I'd never seen a toaster. I could still remember my shopper or Gary Lee getting up with a handful of bread and going over to this strange implement in the corner and putting it in and coming about with burnt bread. And I'm never thinking, what in God's earth would make you burn good bread? You know, and it's a very good question, actually, isn't it? Absolutely. So, you know, all of these things, apart from the cold, and your first time I wore a blazer, first time I wore a jumper, you know, all kinds of, I just had went into, you know, century overload. And it was fairly interesting period in my life. So what time of the year would you come over? I came over 17 for the April, which, well, I flew under 17 for a year, so I arrived here. And I think they designed it that way so that I went straight into the crooked season, whether then come in at the beginning of September and then going into the winters. My whole master was a guy called Alan Duff, who was incredibly clever, and I think he designed it that type of way. You were the only black boy in the school? Absolutely. So what was that like? Well, they were looking at me like I had 12 heads, and I was looking at them like they had 12 heads. Because I'd never seen so many white people in one place, and they'd never seen a black guy, you know? So we were all looking at one that are like, we were all crazy. But what I would say is they all looked after me as much as they could, and I still got a lot of frames. As a matter of fact, we got together 40 years at Marvin on the 12th of September, so we still meet and say hello to each other. And then you play for the school. I bet there were a few schools. You think, well, Marvin College, I've heard they've got this guy called Ricky Elko. I've just gone in the hamstring, sir, today. I'm not sure I can play. Was it a bit like that? It was strained. I don't think Marvin sort of helped themselves, because they would walk around with a couple of helmets and offer them to the opposing team. And so, you know, before we got there, their box was up. I remember turning up at Harrow to play against Harrow, and I'm saying, one short ball today would be off. You know, I remember playing at Repton. Was that because your reputation was out there? And they heard that Marvin had this fast bowler. And they were actually trying to say, look, come on, just pitch it up. What did you think about that? You think that's right or not? I thought they were having a go. And Marvin thought they were. They said, well, for years they'd had a pilot down here bowling cricket. And the ears, we'd turn up with a young cricket ball, and now you're complaining. You know, so there was a little bit of tension between the teams and schools. Repton, I hit my old school mate, John, John, my old colleague, John Carroll, ahead, they call the match off. You know, so there was lots of tensions and, you know, a lot of times that I thought they were picking on me, but I think it was just public school rovers. Yeah, to John Cole, who went on to play for Middlesex. Yeah, I mean, playing that Middlesex for myself, you know. So how did you then progress from, I'm presumably word got around, did it? My old man's got this young quick bowler, and he's worth having a look at. Absolutely. So I came up at 15, by 16 I was playing for Worcester. So straight into the Worcester side, that same summer. So the first summer that I was here playing Coney Cricket, second 11 for Worcester. And then the next year I actually made my Coney W playing for Worcester as a 17-year-old, against Middlesex, funny enough. And I might barely sign my use. It wasn't our site. I had a few. I think I got him out as a mother. Well, that wouldn't be difficult. Let's face it. Just to walk out there with his pads on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was, I mean, that's a remarkably quick transition, isn't it? Coming over at 14, in the Worcester side at 16. Did you feel ready for professional cricket at that age? Yeah, yeah, I felt quite ready because I'd played, first division cricket in Barbados at that time, was probably as strong as any kind of cricket anywhere anywhere. I mean, I played a first division game in Barbados as a 14-year-old against, and against a side by the name of BCL. And they had Franklin Stevenson, Sylvester Clark, and Ezra Mosley, and they're bowling at that. I mean, you were playing, I was playing them again at 14 years old. So I was ready. I mean, I could play, and I could bowl fast enough that it didn't matter. And how did your career progress from there? My career started well, and then went through a really bad patch because I think everybody wanted a piece of me. Here was a 16-year-old, a 17-year-old that could bowl extremely quick, and everybody wanted a piece. I was playing first-class cricket, I was playing second-class on the 25, on the 17, on the 19, and it just was too much for me at the time, and eventually I ended up with a bad injury. His bowlers weren't really looked after in the same way as they are now. Absolutely not. Nobody cared. Cared everybody just wanted a piece of the action, and I ended up playing too much, doing too much, and just got injured. And was that accepted among the coaches and the club that you were playing for? They just said, "Come on, we just need to get on the field." Yeah, absolutely. So I became a little bit of a leper at Worcester because I couldn't bowl fast as they wanted me to. And I ended up fairly miserable time in the Worcester dressing room for myself until I eventually left and moved on to Middlesex. Did you feel you were being targeted a bit? You weren't pulling your weight in the dressing room? Yeah, absolutely. First time I'd ever seen the word "skiva," or heard the word "skiva," I remember one of the teammates saying, "You're a skiva." I'd never heard that word. I remember walking up to the library in Worcester to go and look it up to make sure to see what it meant. I thought this guy was having a smear word at me to tell the truth. So that was the period that was really desolate and desperate, depressing for myself until I could leave. And what about your family back in Barbados? Well, how often did you see them? The first time I saw them after coming to Malvin was at the Christmas. So they said I would go home usually during the summer or Christmas, but of course I was playing for Worcester during the summer. So the first year I just spent in England, I went back at Christmas time. And what was that like? It was nice to start with. I had everybody wanted to see me on my whole village and obviously I'd come back. I'd gone a little taller. My mum was desperate to look after me and see me. And then it turned, for the worst, because my dad actually died that same Christmas. And so here it was first time back in Barbados. Within a couple of weeks arriving back in Barbados, my dad had died. Must have been so difficult then to go back to England. Oh, desperate. I mean, it's desperate. My mum, you know, God rest herself. She just wanted me back. I think because she now had three children that she was going to have to look after financially. But also because she recognised that I needed to be educated properly to be eventually hopefully try and look after the family. Very brave woman. I will say that. Did she want you to go initially to Melbourne? Oh, I saw the opportunity there. Yeah, she saw the opportunity, but she found it incredibly difficult. And, you know, she said to me in late years, she said, basically I cried every night. I dreamt that you had to pneumonia and died fairly much every night. And, you know, I looked back and I think at the time, I never saw that. I just was interested in going to England, something that I had listened to cricket all my life. But, you know, she worried about it all. Did he want to go? I mean, you say, oh, it's already worth it. Oh, it seems like a good opportunity to go. Did he actually want to go? Absolutely. I mean, I grew up in a little wooden house in Barbados with no running water or, you know, toilet facilities even. But we would listen to cricket. My dad would listen to cricket from all over the world. So I was listening to Test Match, you know, from England and John Ireland and people like that. And I just wanted to see what it was like, you know, just the same as I wanted to see India or Delhi or any of these places where my dad had a little transition radio that he had. We would all listen, crawl around it and change the batteries every two minutes and listen to cricket. So this fast forward a little bit then because we've just gone back to, you know, how your mum dealt with you going away and how difficult it must have been actually after your father died. So you were playing for Worcester, you had the injury. And so kind of what happened there because there were more successes, but injuries along the way as well. I had my, you know, little bits of successes in between the injuries. And until eventually I was put in plaster cast for six months. So they plastered me, basically from, you know, my neck down to my private parts. So you had to walk around with the plaster cast on for six months or just rest. Yeah, for six months I had this plaster cast on and couldn't wait to get out of it. Eventually I got out of it and trained myself back up. Assume that I was going to be in the Worcester side. And I was down conferly at the time saying, "No, you're going off to play for Farsley in the Yorkshire League and keep you as far away from Worcester as possible." My great hit at the time was the overseas player making lots and lots of runs. So that's what I did. But I just, that particular position wasn't tenable for very long. So what happened then? You ended up with the Middlesex? Yeah, I asked the leave which denied me one year and then the next year they said, "Right, you can do." And I went off to Middlesex. Happily or with an all sort of resentment at how Worcester treated me? Happily. Happily. It was a decision that I should have made in 1982. I've been playing my first county game against Middlesex. I think someone had said, "Look, why don't you come to Middlesex?" And I, you know, I felt that I owed Worcester the opportunity to play for them and had given me my first chance. But eventually I should have gone really at that time. Did you feel that was Middlesex a better environment for you? For a fastball, absolutely. Gatt was a fastball in captain. You know, I think he played spin so well that he never really, you know, didn't like spinners. So he suddenly had this guy that could ball a ball over 90 miles away. He had a big fastball at the back and blow away the tail and stuff like that. So that was the environment for me. And he was very clear, which was something that was lacking at Worcester. You know, at Worcester I didn't know whether it was going to ball five overs or 15 overs. But Gatt would say, you know, five overs and then you can go off and have a shower. So it was very clear that I could run in for five overs and ball as quickly as I could. And it went so well for you at Middlesex that you did get selected. Selected for England, yeah. That first year straight into England side and off to the Caribbean. Because I remember it pretty well because I remember there's a lot of excitement, you know, because of course, Westin has had lots of fast bowlers. Yeah. And England, they needed something to sort of go back at Westin this way. Yeah, absolutely. So there was this young fast bowler and well, but it didn't quite work out. No, we turned up in the Caribbean instantly. I had sort of bat pain. And as you say, there was myself, Devon Malcolm at the time, Daffy the Freighter. You know, we all in the outside. I turned up in the Caribbean and suddenly started to have bat pain. And I tried everything. I had acupuncture in St. Lucia from some back street place. I remember Mickey Stewart saying, "It's going absolutely crazy." He said, "Ray, you know, this is the age of AIDS. Why are you letting people stick you, stick needles in your back?" You know, a guy in the hotel, I remember a guy funding me for the same. You want to go and buy a bowler WD-40 and spray it on your back. Get ready about pain. And I walked down the road and bought a bowler. Yeah, I was just desperate clutching out straws. So the back injury, was that the injury that kind of finished your career? Absolutely. And that, I turned back, eventually they sent me back to England to have it looked at. And they did their scans. I found out I had six stress fractures. So no end of acupuncture was ever going to fix that. And they were quite high in my back as well. So they couldn't actually fuse them like most fast bowlers of the time. You know, mine was L3, 4, and 5. And so they decided to take bone off my hip and graft onto the actual individual grafts and then screw them together. And that was quite new sort of surgery at the time. And of course it didn't work within a year or so, sort of broken down again. And was that the end then? No, they had a second operation. They said they would do an exploratory operation because I was bowling fast, but I was in pain. You know, and eventually I was sitting there, you know, I'm eating too many pain killers and anti-inflammatories. I need some help now. So they decided to do an exploratory operation, see what they could find. And I went in to operate at 9 o'clock in the morning and woke up at 10 o'clock at night. And I thought, well, it couldn't be that exploratory. And eventually what they found was that broken a lot of the pins. And so they had to drill them out and refuse them. And so that was that then. Well, I came back again. I started playing again and then it started again. And the final straw was pre-season in 1992 and I started projecting vomiting and stuff like that. Because of the pain. Because of the pain, yeah. And so they eventually said, look, you need to stop now. Yeah. Do you think you would have been better looked after now? Because bowlers are better looked after now. Yeah, I think so. They just all just came out there. It's just, you know... Absolutely. I'm still in the back pain. All through it or whatever. Yeah, I think I've been managed a lot. At 17, 16 years ago, I thought I could bowl perhaps at 90 miles an hour. I had no understanding of managing myself. So it was difficult to manage your body. And that's butch covered in about it. Just giving him a salute. Yeah. Yeah. Do you bowl with butch? I'd miss butch very early. Right. I'd bowl his dad, of course. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what Big Wireless does. They charge you a lot. We charge you a little. So naturally, when they announce they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you. That's right. We're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees, promoting for new customers for limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month slows. Full turns at Mint Mobile.com. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B. But with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. Linkedin, the place to be, to be. So, okay, bowling with tremendous pain, so you have to stop. And then what happened next? Then I went through an incredibly depressive period when I very nearly decided to take the ultimate thing and end it all, because I was just so depressed. Eventually, anyway, I went off my ex-wife now, or my wife at the time. She said, look, we're going to see my mum, and she's a psychiatrist. And she basically said, look, you got depressed. You know, you need to get out of England. So, I went off to America, backpacking, and going around. So, I was away from cricket, not seeing it. And decided I wanted to fly airplane. No, this is something. Not everybody does that. Oh, my cricket career is over. I'm going to fly airplanes now. Was that something that was in your mind for a while back? Absolutely. I'll tell you, as a 12-year-old, I'd ridden my bike down to the harbour in Barbados. And I'd watched the American Navy landing planes on an aircraft carrier. I'd wang on my way for a little tour of this thing, and sat in the cockpit of this thing, and I thought, whoa, I'd love to do this, you know? And I went home and said to my dad, look, I like to fly airplanes. But that said to me, black people don't fly airplanes. You know, think about doctor, lawyer, or something like that. And I remember thinking, as a kind of kid, I was, well, I'm going to be the first to do it. I'll show you, you know? So, obviously, cricket, then sidelined by cricket. And then, of course, when it all came to an abrupt end, this is the only thing that I thought I could do. I thought, I've got no interest in anything else. So, I went off and decided I went to flight school. So, what was that process? How easy was that? It was nightmare, because I didn't have much money. And, you know, they don't tell you that most pilots, apart from being white, most pilots are quite middle class. They all have lots of money to pay. You know, a pilot license, today's money is 120,000 pounds. And I had very little, so I was on a sort of shoe string. And having to do everything at one attempt. I didn't have two attempts to do anything. But I managed to get through the whole course at one attempt. And then put myself on the market only to find that I could not get a job anywhere. Because, well, I don't know. But I will say that all my school colleagues got jobs and I did it. So, the only job that I could eventually get was to fly off the Caribbean and go and work for the local airline over there, which I did. But I continued to write to various airlines around the world. And eventually, I went to Atlanta, sent me a letter one afternoon and said, "Look, we'd like you to come for an interview." What did that feel like? Ah, amazing, amazing. And I turned up to the interview. And I'd been to a few interviews before all of them ended in failure. And so, I was quite apprehensive. I walked into the interview, did the interview. You know, they asked me about my cricketing career and background, and all that kind of stuff. What age were you here then? They're just 29, yes. So, I spent three or so years going to flight school and that kind of stuff. And anyway, at the end of it was a group discussion. I suppose they wanted to see, "Oh, you are reacting with other people." And this guy walked in and he said, "Hey, you know, my name is Captain Ubi." Which part of Barbados are you from? And I always said, "Do you know Barbados?" You know, and he said, "Yeah, of course. My wife is a Barbadian." So that was my little bit of luck. And, you know, within three months or so, I was flying for Virgin Atlantic. Wow. What was that like? Ah, flying a jumbo for the first time. You know, absolutely amazing. Going from bowling fast to flying a jumbo is just... I mean, it's the most iconic aircraft anywhere on Earth. And I've got 20,000 hours in that thing. And then you become a captain? Yeah, within six years at Virgin, I went up for command, managed to pass that. And, you know, I started to fly into 747 as a captain. It's funny, everyone does their jobs. After a while, it probably feels quite mundane. You just turn up the work and just do it because you've been doing it for years. But it strikes me, you're just sitting in that cockpit. It's just about to take off. And you're responsible for the lives of all the people in the back of the plane. What's that like? Well, I once asked the oil captain when I first started flying commercial. I said, you know, "How do you deal with the sort of pressure of 400 people?" And he said to me, "Just look after yourself. Don't worry about that. If you get there, they'll go there." Yeah, and that's how I sort of thought that was quite a good way to rationalise it. So you were flying for, I just didn't work out 20 years or something like that? Yep. And then... And then I fell down the stairs one afternoon, sorry, one morning I arrived back from Barbados. I fell down the stairs, thought nothing of it. Went away for four years, but started to have headaches and all kinds of stuff. Eventually, I was playing back from LA on the 787. Now I'm on the dreamliner. And I just didn't feel right. So I stood myself down, declared an emergency called Enambulance. And they found out that I had a brain bleed, which was something that manifests to itself from four years previous to that. It took them basically four operations to find out exactly what to do and to solve it. And what did that mean for your flying career? Well, it means that my flying career is still on hold now. One of the issues, and I'll tell you quickly, my mum used to have, you know, all the family over. You know, every Christmas she would have this massive party. And she'd bring all the families. And my mum has got a lot of brothers. You know, my granddad had fairly active loins. And anyway, so because this was coming up to Christmas, I asked that nobody would tell her that I was sick. I didn't want to ruin the party. So after the first operation, nobody told her second operation, third operation. And then it made a turn for the right, for the worst. So now I'm at Death Door, and they decided, well, we're going to have to tell her. So she's flying to England on the 22nd of January. This is 2019. And so I got up in the morning, the 22nd of January, walked into the toilet and decided to lock the door, turn the shower on, and suddenly I have this seizure, the mother of all seizures. Now, 40 minutes in this toilet, and I could hear people coming to the door going away because it's engaged. And so I'm lying on the floor, and I've had three things in my mind at this time, even though this seizure is still going on. A, never lock a bathroom door again. And now this is even going to come back and haunt me on the way up here on the British Real Train. And somebody walks in. Well, that's happened to a few people. Absolutely. Right. The second thing, the show is still on, so I'm getting wet lying on the floor while I'm seizing. And I remember thinking, don't ever have a bath, because if you have a bath, you're going to drown. If I was in the bath at that time, I would definitely drown. And then in the third thing, your mum is outside. You're not dying today. You know, maybe tomorrow, but not today. You're not going to die to that. And that was the three things that went through in my mind during that period of time. How did you get out? Well, as you'll see in the book, I heaved my way to the door, and basically lied at the feet of a nurse as the door burst open. And that seizure went on for another 45 minutes after that. So basically, I'll see it for two and a half hours. And the only thing that saved me was that I was relatively fit. And the other thing that saved me was my determination, of course. And the only way they could stop that seizure was to induce a coma. So I was in a coma for four days. How long ago was that? This is 2019. Right, 2019. 2019. So January 2019. So the surgery saved your life. The fourth surgery, so they eventually found out that I had a membrane that was built up over the brain bleed for the four years previously. And it basically had grown big enough that it had shifted my brain to one side. And that's what was causing the issues. So once they cleared the membrane, touch what I've managed to be seizure-free and fairly healthy. And what do you have to do to get back-fly again? I have to, basically, it's time. I have to prove to them that I'm not going to have another seizure. And that only time, because nobody knows when you're going to have another seizure. You know, anybody can have a seizure at any time. So I'm just waiting, basically, for a five-year period. And then for them to have a look and say, "Well, no, you haven't had a seizure. Maybe we'll give it back to you." Do you want to fly again? Yes, I'd love to finish it on my terms. That's what I'd love to do on my terms. Yeah. Right. Here's an email from Ninean Gough. Do you remember this name? Ricky, "I was in the same house as Ricky at Marvin College. Schoolhouse, albeit three years. But you might not remember. I might not have bolded it. It's a 13-year-old I watched in bold in verse 11. And the keeper and slips were pretty much on the boundary. I also believe that some teams refused to play, if he was in the Melbourne side. Quick wasn't the word. At least I can say both Ricky and I play for Melbourne first 11. It was only not the same time. Legend. Yeah. Absolutely. It was a good time, good house. And we met some good people. Hostmaster, Aladaf, top man, you know. And I wish that he was around to see me. I fly a 747 and be selected for England. Were you in U.S. air space when 9/11 happened? Yes, I'd come back from U.S. air space and I'd flown a jumbo back into England. So it didn't work. It wasn't like it had an effect. No, no. Well, it affected in the fact that all the airplanes was grounded and included mine. But it didn't affect me as in. I flew out of Boston, one of the airports that they actually used on the same day. So I was there. It's Chris Swift. I used to work on the sports desk of the Worcester Evening News. And I remember taking part in a six-aside pro-am at New Road as part of Ricky's benefit season. In our first game, I managed to drop in both of them at Deep Square Leg. It was going like an exit missile. And in the second field at a straight drive by Rob Bailey off my own bowling and broke a finger. Oh dear. There we go. Well, it's nice to hear the people sort of listening and reconnecting. Absolutely. Members of you. The clock is being used. Do you still have time to watch cricket? I do. I do. And since this injury, I've managed to spend a lot of time. So I've been to Australia to the T20. I've been to India for the T50. And I was just a T20 in the Caribbean. So I've done, spent a lot of time. Did the flying make up for the cricket, the fact that you had the injury and had to retire? Has it made up? It's been a fantastic second career. Absolutely. I love flying. It's a brilliant thing to do. I mean, to fly an aircraft, you know, a jumbo jet, you know, 450 people we can carry. And you be the one that's controlling it. You come out and get any better than that. Brilliant. I've done two jobs in my life. One is a sportsman, one is a pilot. And I think you asked most little boys that would say we do any one. Well, thanks so much to Ricky for joining us. That's it for this episode of the TMS podcast. Make sure you've subscribed on BBC Sounds so you don't miss any content, including no balls. Be sure to check out TailEnders and Stump2. There's plenty of cricket being played before Test Match Special is back for England's three test series against Sri Lanka on the 21st of August. The 100 coverage continues across BBC television, five sports extra, BBC Sounds and the BBC Sport website, and at with every ball of every match available to listen to across five sports extra and the BBC Sport website and app. Hey, I hear you think podcasts are all about true crime, huh? Well, wise guy, the iHeartRadio app's got all kinds of podcasts. We got stuff you should know and stuff they don't want you to know. We got Bobby Bones, Big Boy and Lou Lader. We got SpongeBob, binge pants and exotic erotic story time. We got doe boys, two dudes in the kitchen, green eggs and dans. Hey, we got Elf Quest. We got podcasts for everything on the iHeartRadio app for free. If you don't download that, well, that's not just a true crime, my friend. That's criminal. That's criminal.