(upbeat music) - They swept away the defending World Series champion, Texas Ranger. - Too serious, Vlad's team. Too serious that Jimmy Garcia. - Maybe, I don't know. - So he opened the floodgates to a weekend of lots of movement around Major League Baseball, specifically with the Toronto Blue Jays. Trade deadline is tomorrow. Blue Jays start a four game series in Baltimore. This afternoon, they get a double header today and a couple more games before the off day on Thursday. But tomorrow's the trade deadline. So here's the chopping that's already started to happen. - Mm-hmm. - Jimmy Garcia, who was obviously gonna move. He's very good, he was injured, but then he came back and he looked pretty Jimmy Garcia-like, but he's a pending free agent off to the Mariners. - For Jonathan Classay, this is the guy that's the closest to the Major Leagues of any of the prospects, the Blue Jays got. In fact, was on the Mariners Major League roster when the trade was consummated and then optioned back down to Buffalo for the Blue Jays. He had 79 stolen bases last year, crossed a couple of different levels of the minor league system. He's switch it or he plays- - Seems fast. - In the outfield, he strikes out a bunch, but yeah, he's a thing and I got some catcher, Jacob Sharp, who's gonna be in the low minor. He's listed at five foot seven, which is smaller than Alejandro Kirk. - Nice. - It's an entire little guy. - I wanna see this guy. - You can fit him in your pocket. So that, like Jimmy Garcia was always gonna move. Nate Pearson wasn't always going to move, not one of those pending free agents. He goes to the Cubs and they get another outfielder who's like, toolsy, I guess. His name is Johannes Hendrick. Johannes Hendrick Panango. He was the 17th ranked prospect in the Cubs system as a ranked by baseball America and they got an infielder named Josh Rivera. And then, I just also would like to be on board for loving the name Johannes Hendrick. - It's a good name, Danny Jansen, who is a pending free agent and a guy that we anticipated the possibility of moving, but in the last couple of days, and I think Ben Nicholson Smith was the first to alert me to this very realistic possibility that it's hard for contending teams to add a catcher to the mix in the middle of a season. Also, this is an area that Blue Jays are gonna have to backfill this coming off season. And maybe it makes it a little easier to re-sign Danny Jansen if he remains with your backup. They said, "Thanks, but no thanks." And maybe we will revisit that in the off season 'cause he'll still be a free agent. But he goes to your division rival Red Sox. He was deaching for them yesterday against the Yankees. Got a hit in his first bat. They get a couple of minor leaguers that are further down the packing order and further away from the major leagues. Like just in a grand scheme of things, there's one guy who you could maybe anticipate seeing, honestly, as early as this season, that's Class A, and impacting the major league level next season, that's Class A. Everybody else's lottery ticket stuff, even Class A is a lottery ticket guy, because he's been up and down. He played 20-ish games for the Mariners with very limited success, but it started, Brent. And how does it make you feel? - Well, I just, it should go without saying that unless you're trading Vlad or Bo, and even if you're trading Bo right now, they're all gonna be lottery ticket guys. This is how baseball trades work. You do not, unless you're trading away one Soto or somebody of that ilk and generally speaking, it needs to even be with control beyond a rental, you're not getting the sure thing. And baseball prospects are so far from that when you begin with, I think it's less about the types of pieces they took back and that they're all seemingly far away from the majors with the exception of Class A, than it is about the trade of Janssen for what it means next year. And right, it's possible. They could go and they could revisit this in the off season and he goes and, you know, is your mole in Boston and just spends the whole time telling everybody there, you know, this place is fine, but it's no Toronto, this Fenway. Yeah, it's got its charms, but you should see new Roger, I suppose that could happen. I think it's just as likely that Danny Janssen gets playing baseball in an old school ballpark and likes it there and more likely than not, he's just gonna go to free agency and whoever gives him the most money is where he's gonna kind of end up. So it's mostly about the Janssen trade and kind of moving on from the best possibility to re-sign him than it is about what those pieces come back and how far they are away about your timeline next year. Because, you know, catcher is not the most important position in baseball, but having a black hole in one is not a tenable situation and Kirk can be part of the catching solution, but he can't be your catcher in pen and he's gonna catch you, you know, nobody catches 100. Like there's just, you need a tandem in that position and removing Janssen from that just hurt your ability to compete in that way next year. So it's less about what you got back and more about Janssen for me. Yeah, I like Danny Janssen for sure. And he was the longest tenured Bluejay, which is quite something and Johnny Schneider was, I mean, he called him his third son. Said he was playing catch with the football with him when he was a 17-year-old in the Bluejay's organization. And he returned from his injury to start the season and he was like hitting in the middle of this Bluejay's lot. Bluejay's were gonna score, I mean, they were already scoring one and two runs a game, but they were scoring no runs without Danny Janssen. Danny Janssen was the savior. Clutch hitter. Like by the time he departed the Bluejay's, the numbers are pretty ugly, right? Like they're back to below his career norms. He had an OPS of 671. And he's only once in his career played 100 games. He's a catcher, he gets hurt. And it's an incredible career arc for him, honestly, because he first arrived at the major league level as a bat first dude and then had to remake his defense and then forgot about the offense and then had to remake the offense again. And it's turned himself into a guy that is going to have more than a few suitors when he hits free agency, but he's not JT Real Muto out there, right? And he shouldn't really, although he was yesterday, be taking up DH at bats for you. He's because of the position he plays, because of the defense that he plays, he's good. Not like just slightly above average catching option, but it hurts mostly because of his tenure with this organization and because of, you know, him just being a household name and we had that Danny Jansen goggle giveaway thing. I don't know if the divisional thing makes a difference. In fact, I can tell you it doesn't for me because of the fact that the divisional games have been so reduced. It's only 13 games now you play within your division. Honestly, it's also the Red Sox and it's not the Yankees. Yankees would have hurt a little more. - Sure. - And it's weird. I mean, the Red Sox have had way more success than the Yankees over the last decade, decade and a half or so. But I watched that series between those two teams and maybe it's just part of where they are in the standings, but I felt myself with more of a rooting interest in the Red Sox winning that series than the Yankees who took the rubber game yesterday. - No, it's because the Yankees are evil. - I guess so. - Yeah. - But yeah, I don't care. And if the Blue Jays want to put their best foot forward in free agency, I do think, as is his right, he's going to take whatever the best offer is for his services in free agency. - I do, I don't think you're alone in that. I think a lot of people agree with you and that, yeah, hey, whoever could give you the best price and even if that was Satan himself, hey, sorry. Sorry, Danny, you gotta go play for the devil and the devils, I guess. But I do think there is a segment of people that just loathe the idea of giving anything to the Red Sox, to the Yankees. I think for some people, I don't know that there's a complete overlap on that. You throw the Dodgers in that mix as well 'cause they get everything and you throw in the Otani of it all. I don't think you're alone, obviously, like my disposition is a little different on that and I don't get bothered one way or another by it. But I do think there are people who go, ah, you had to make it a little easier for the Red Sox. And I'm with you that I think that this is not gonna be some slam dunk signing for whoever signs them. I think there's gonna be a couple of good years in there and probably some bad money at the end. But, hey, welcome to Free Agency in baseball. But especially if it's a bit of a position to need and there are a couple of multiple suitors, that's kind of the way I look at it. But I don't feel any differently if I would feel worse if it's the Yankees. But that's 'cause I think the Yankees outside of the Montreal Canadiens is single most evil entity in sport. So, you know, that's my home bias of play. - So it is clear, like just factually, the idea that the Blue Jays are only trading the way they're guys that are panting for agents, not true. - 'Cause they traded away Nate Pearson, who to me-- - That surprised me. - Yeah. I mean, it does until you realize, oh, you got something back for Nate Pearson, who's just like, frankly, not good. Like he's a middle reliever at one-- - I should clarify, that's why it surprised me. I didn't think teams would be clamoring for it. I just figured with, and, you know, I guess we're right here, the deadlines tomorrow at this point now. But I just would've thought Nate Pearson would've been a like, I forget if it's four o'clock, three o'clock, but like a 259, 359 edition for some team after they kind of struck out on the other things ago. Yeah, all right, he throws hard, bring him over. - The idea that somebody's identified Nate Pearson as somebody with like untapped potential, I mean, because he throws hard, but again, like, said this time and time again, when Nate Pearson arrived, the idea of somebody that threw 99, 100 was mind-bending. Now you might as well be throwing underhand, and just, like the sample is big, and God, the amount of hype that's surrounded Nate Pearson when he first arrived, and it started with that relief appearance in the playoff game against the Tampa Bay Rays. But the idea that, okay, he failed as a starter, but that's fine, like at worst, you're getting a potential future great closer. Like this guy is gonna be a dominant, dominant reliever. The fact that his opponents for his career, which is not like not a small sample anymore, and including this season where he has an ERA over five and a half, which, I mean, we shouldn't judge relievers by their ERA's, but how about this? How about this, that, okay, nobody hits a major league baseball, right? - This is true. - Anymore, like hitting, that's a thing that used to happen in baseball doesn't really happen. - My favorite thing in the world was watching you tell Jose Cruz Jr. and more importantly, Frank Calvinaro what baseball's batting average was and watching them just recoil, basically. - Yeah, it's like 242, anyways. If you're a 200 hit, like the Mendoza line doesn't mean anything anymore. Like you can be a 199 hitter and get on base and have a little bit of power. You're like, okay, you're serviceable. Like Dalton Vartio is going through it a prolonged slump and I know he hit it home run yesterday, but his OPS is just slightly below 700. That's pretty good for a guy that gives you great defense. Anyways, what happened? Used to be a real sport. Opponents are hitting, have an OPS of a 780 against Nate Pearson as a reliever in his entire career. - Move. - Nate Pearson is a middle reliever who at times I guess can show the flashes of the guy that was one of the best prospects, not just in the Blue Jays organization, but in all of baseball, but just over the length of a season, you know what you're gonna get? It's a guy, he's a jag. He's the definition of a jag. - Yup. - And that the Blue Jays got anything for him. - Sure, I'm sure they were stunned when the phone rang and somebody was like, "Hey, "give us one of your Nate Pearson's." And they're like, "We got one of those." - They were like, "We'd like to inquire about Nate Pearson." They're like, "Done." They hang up the phone, the Cubs had to call back. They're like, "You know, we're gonna give you stuff for 'em." "What?" All right, sure, we'll take it. It doesn't even matter who it's gonna be. I think there is an element to that. The thing I'm also gonna hammer home on this and I feel differently about this with, or I feel even more strongly about this with pitchers than I do with hitters, but trade 'em, trade 'em, trade 'em. If you have a team that's worth anything at the moment and you got a prospect that can net you something of impact at that time, go do it, go make the trade. 'Cause we don't need to sit here and rehash all of the things. The Blue Jays, you know, theoretically, or rumored to have, could have had for Nate Pearson all those years, but this is the thing. We've done it with Travis Snyder. We've done it with a million kind of prospects that never were in this market and in this sport specifically. If you have a team that is, that has a chance at all, you have to push your prospects in and this is just a classic reminder of it. Now, part of it is, yes, the game changed a little, but the game's not gonna stay the same forever. There's always gonna be changes. Some guys will be on the right side of it. Nate Pearson on the wrong side of it. And I just, it is just such a reminder for me that push your chips in when you have a reason to do so. Don't push your chips in for no reason. Don't be this Blue Jays team and say, all right, we can fight, no, but when the time is right, push the chips in. - Yeah, I will, Nate Pearson not being anything, I guess wouldn't have surprised me when he was a prospect, but I would have thought it would have come in the way it seems to be happening for Ricky Tiedemann and that injuries kept him from having a professional career. Nate Pearson's gotten over the injury since moving to the bullpen, just the results have not been there. I mean, to your point about, yeah, trade your prospects, call up your pitching prospects at the earliest possible convenience. Yeah, Ricky Tiedemann's gone now too. This is truly a curse season. Like we just lived through one of the most cursed seasons in Raptors franchise history. I might stack this Blue Jays season right up against it. - That's interesting 'cause I've been, I've been toying around with the like, run it back terror rankings of which of the three run it backs we've seen have been the worst, but maybe that's the better way to look at it is who has had the worst season from hell? The Leafs like every year is a season from hell, but these other orgs would kill for that season from hell, which is remarkable. But yeah, the Raptors won, feels this is the other thing about, you know, the death years is that they can come in such different ways, right? Like the Blue Jays and Raptors years feel like they went very differently of like trading away superstars in the season two. All right, we're gonna, you know, we're holding on to all of ours and they both ended up on in the exact same spot at the end of the year. Yeah, truly it's been a time for season from hell. Yeah, I mean, your best hitter has been one of the worst hitters in all the baseball and then injured in Boboshette. Alec Manoa just had internal brace procedure. Yeah, not good. He didn't look like he was back to being his old self. Your top prospect, pop for steroids. And then your second best prospect, your top pitching prospect just had Tommy John surgery. Or at least he's gonna have it tomorrow after asking everyone in the world, like, please look at this arm and they're like, it's fine. I think more guys should look at it. They gotta be honest. Yeah, so he's gonna have Tommy John surgery tomorrow, which takes him out of the conversation for next year, at least, and maybe beyond that. I mean, we're out of place with the surgery where I guess you can anticipate him returning to something close to what he was after the fact. But men, what is 2026 for this Blue Jays team anyways? That's the thing. It's just another log on the fire of why it's gonna be hard for them to kind of turn this thing around in any quick succession. Tietemim was not gonna be the reason this Blue Jays team was good next year outperformed expectations, but it had to be a part of it. It was Ricky Tietemim coming in and being part of the rotation and competing for his body, all of that. And the idea of that being taken off the table here, it's just another thing. And it'd be one thing if you had the year from hell and then, all right, we can exhale, we can move on, but man, there's so many big picture discussion for this team, like the bow of it all, the flat of it all. What do you do? And yeah, just not having that certainty heading into next season with Tietemim and his heartbreak, and honestly. - Yeah, it sucks. There is literally now, unless you consider a role of a smart team as the same dude he was when he returns next season, there's no bubbling hope at the minor league level for this team right now. - Just Classe. - So, and Classe? - No, again, like, but that is like, at the end of the deadline, that question is gonna get asked. And I think, yeah, well, they're always hesitant to put pressure on one guy, but I think they will highlight that. Not that the blue jizz from us are a great just piece. - And maybe he's a thing, but I mean, in 43 played appearances, 41 of bats with the Mariners and in 19 games of the season, hitting 195 with a 233 on base, 220 slug. Stole three bases though, and this is a guy, like I said, a year removed from 79 combined stolen bases in Seattle's minor league system. He's got tons of speed. He's got some on base potential. And, you know, yeah, I also had 20 home runs in the minor leagues last year. - So, quick question about that. How do you feel, and they didn't, I mean, it was obviously a part of the equation, but they didn't just say when they called the Mariners or whatever way this trade intimated itself. They didn't say, well, it was the fastest guy you got over there, but that has been a thing that's lacked from this team, like the idea of speed. And it's not necessarily stealing bases, but it's just the idea of a younger, more athletic team. It's something they talked about in spades and then kind of went away from completely. What do you make of them if that is something they're kind of highlighting and trying to kind of target and improve on? Like, it's just, they seem to keep yo-yoing themselves. And I don't think, again, I don't think they trade it for Class A because of, strictly because of the speed factor, but obviously it's one of the bulletin points about what he brings to you as a player. Like, it does seem like they kind of keep over correcting one way or another. And I'm happy they're going back to not just five DHS on the team, if that's the plan for next year. - No, I think they've doubled down on what they've attempted to do in getting faster and speedier in the outfield and better defensively. So they're gonna lose Kevin Kiermeyer, obviously, at the conclusion of this season. But having Class A and Varshow as two thirds of your outfield, then George Springer in a corner outfield spot is still a plus defender. Like, I don't think you lose anything defensively from everything I've read about his defense. And obviously when you got the speed, it's like, that's a huge component to it. Yeah, it feels like they're just doubling down on speed and in defense in the outfield. So the question remains, okay, so there's a couple of pending free agents. Still, the Blue Jays can deal before tomorrow. One of them's Justin Turner, who's having an, okay, sees him, like, yeah, he can help somebody. - Sure. - And then there's Jusek Akuchi, who has an ERA over six since the start of June, but we know that there's real strikeout ability there. And maybe somebody sees him, honestly, as a relief option also, if you need to strike out from the left side. - Yeah, that's the Juse. - There's also the possibility of doing what the Cubs are doing, which is, like the Cubs are in a similar spot when it comes to making the playoffs this season as the Blue Jays, in that they're not going to. But they're still acquiring pieces. Now, Isak Paredes still has three years of team control. - Mm-hmm. - But the Cubs are buying. I guess they're a possibility that the Blue Jays are accumulating assets. And we know they're trying to compete in 2025. I guess it possible that before tomorrow's deadline, we see the Blue Jays package a couple of those prospects in a trade for somebody who is like a major leader today, or at least a major leader in 2025 that helps them win next season. - I would love that quite frankly. If that is the plan here, is to grab a bunch of assets that are maybes and who's it's and what's that could be traded for something that you're more certain about. I think that's the right we should be going. Now, I don't think you should overextend yourself in that way. I don't think you're wanting to trade for, like you said, with Paredes, he has the three years of team control. So you're trading for that. I don't think you're trading for somebody's like free agent acquisition that didn't quite go the way they want. You're taking on big money for three years. But I think that's the other type of movies you should try to do. The other thing about this is, and people get their backs up or wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment, but the idea of you don't want to have to do your shopping and free agency every year. That gets expensive if you're the Blue Jays or any team for that matter, but it's also hard to constantly convince people to come here. It's not saying you can't have it happen, but it's so much easier to trade for guys. Let them get in the system. Let them get a taste of it, build around them. And I think that I would love to see that. How likely is it? I don't know. - I think it's pretty likely because if you're, well, first of all, if you're Ross Atkins, I don't know how you feel about your job security the moment, yeah. But if what you've told everybody, either explicitly or implicitly, is that, hey, we're not shopping, Bo. We're not shopping, Vlad, because we're trying to win in 2025. And this is just a little bump in the road despite the fact that there's a lot of areas that need improvement and not a lot of means to do so. But now you at least have more means to do so. You have more bullets in the chamber, right? Because the argument previously to them going out and acquiring players in trade is that- - The finger thing, the money, except it's not money, it's prospects. - Prospects, they didn't have any. They're minorly systems stank and still does stink. It's not like they got a bunch of top 100 prospects here, but at least it's something. Like there could be an eye of the beholder thing on the other side. - For sure. - Where the Blue Jays are able to, yeah. Create a more wind now trade for 2025, despite the fact that they're simultaneous buyers and sellers. I don't discount the possibility. And in fact, the fact that these trades were made, so not close to the deadline, so far removed from tomorrow's deadline, makes me think that maybe that was part of the impetus for doing so, is that you give yourself some time to take those prospects, bring them to potential suitors for a trade that nets you something that's, you can more than just pencil in to your lineup next year, which you can do with one guy that they've acquired here, and that's Class A. This Blue Jays team needs more than just one guy that they're gonna acquire in trade that helps them next season. - I wholeheartedly agree, and I think that if you're trading, I think if you're taking the pieces that you acquired from all these deadline moves, Atkins would have the green light to go ahead and trade for whoever this piece is, or a couple of pieces or whatever. But I think we keep coming, I keep coming, bumping up against the idea that we had heading into this deadline of, how big is the move if you want Atkins making it? And maybe the tide is turning a little bit on if he, the dye is kind of cast in terms of his job security, this off season, I don't know, but that's the thing I keep bumping up against is, if you believe in, again, James Click or GMX, who maybe gets the job after it changed this off season, then I would think, I would think, if you're the guy who's gonna hire that new GM, you'd say, "Mm, why don't you save those bullets for him?" And that's the question here. And I think the off season may be easier to make some of those trades as well. - Yeah, those prospects are still available to be traded in the off season, we'll see. We'll get a better sense when we talk to our next guest, John Marosi of MLB Network. Next, as the fan morning show continues, Ben Adams, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Unrivaled insight, analysis, and opinions on all things Blue Jays. Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) - Ben Mordecher of Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Adams. - Brent Gunning, Blue Jays. Starting a series in Baltimore against the Orioles. Who are battling the New York Yankees to top the American Leagueies. They're a game up on the Yankees. If the Yankees survive taking two or three from the Boston Red Sox, great series. First couple of games of that thing were back and forth. A whole lot of fun. The Yankees, the top wildcard team in the American League. Twins, Royals also in a playoff spot as the Red Sox won back. Mariners, one and a half games back. The Rays only three back, but they're tearing it down. Like there's no like hybrid buy self for the Rays. There's just sell, including guys with years of team control, including Esack Paredes. Let's talk to our insider who was brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online. And in the showroom, visit donvalleynorthlexus.com. Today's insider, John Morosi of MLB Network. How's it going, John? - Good morning, Ben and Brent. Happy trade deadline week. I'm bringing you salutations from Philadelphia. We've got the Yankees and Phillies here tonight and tomorrow. So it should be very interesting. I will, my plan is to watch as much of the game that I'm actually broadcasting tonight as possible while texting people and trying to see what's going on in the industry. So it's going to be a lot of fun tonight. - Yeah, that's a fun match up too. The Yankees, like I mentioned, they win that big series and an anticipated one between a couple of blood rivals. Obviously, Yankees, Red Sox, one of the best we got in all the pro sports. But they add jazz chism as well. Like they've been active here. It was a slow developing deadline, but the weekend really took off. John, like how exciting do you think the next couple of days are going to be as we head towards tomorrow's deadline? - This is the perfect way for a deadline to unfold if you want to have a lot of activity. Because a lot of the mid-range deals that you would expect to happen and even some of the bigger ones have already occurred. And when that happens, it gives teams and executives time to be creative. So this, in terms of recent years that we've covered the deadline, this to me feels like the year in which we've had the most volume of deals before the last 48 hours before the trade deadline itself. And that to me is really good news. If you like action and excitement, which of course, we all do. So I think that really bodes well. The other thing that was interesting to me yesterday on the MLB Network Radio, multiple top-level executives, Jerry DiPoto, Derek Falvey, both of them said this, that because of the nature of the balance of buyers and sellers right now, that a lot, a lot, or at least an abundance of the trade conversations that they've had have been buyer to buyer. Meaning we could see more deals like the one that we saw between Baltimore and Philly, who they might play together in the World Series. This season. So that's where, and even the deal between Tampa and the Cubs yesterday was nominally a seller and seller deal, where the Cubs got the longer-term player and just made a move. And that was controllable pieces all over the place between the Rays and the Cubs. So I just think that the normal construct of what we expect the deadline to look like, no longer really applies, which is exciting and very unpredictable, which is what we love here, with less than 48 hours to go before the deadline. - Yeah, I don't think many people had a Orioles Phillies trade on their bingo card heading into this, and I love it. I mean, John, you're a hockey guy. So we just call that a hockey trade in our sport, but yeah, like buyer to buyer, we love it. We love the idea of two teams looking at a problem and saying, all right, I hope we both fix it and I hope we get to figure out who won this thing in, I guess, November now, 'cause of the way the schedule works. Who do you think is the team that kind of has helped themselves the most? I do want to move into kind of more just Jay-centric stuff, but before we do that, just is there a team that's helped themselves the most for you already? Maybe it's a chis-home? I don't know what the move is for you if there's one that stands out. - Sure, well, I think the Yankees getting jazz chis-em was a very important one because he does address a lot of their offensive issues. He's a base-dealing threat. You can bat 'em at the top of the lineup if you wanted to, or yesterday, the fifth spot, which I found was interesting, that the Yankees in their lineup against Boston yesterday, their best stolen base threats were chis-em batting fifth and Volpe batting eighth, which is not usually how you design a lineup, and maybe that's a suggestion that they've got some more moves to make, but I think that he helped them really with what one of their big issues was. I think that the Phillies, and it's interesting because as we get ready to cover the game tonight on MLB Network, the Phillies by making the moves for Estebas and Austin Hayes, they feel like they're close to wrapping things up with what they need, and that's classic Dave Dombrowski. He's not gonna wait until the last minute. He probably overpaid to get Estebas, but he doesn't really worry about that. And I think that in a lot of ways, when you're going for it, now not every team can do that, but when you're going for it, you just go for it, and that's how Dave Dombrowski always has done his job, and that's one of the reasons why, by the way, he's gonna be in Hall of Fame one day. So I think that was a classic Dombrowski move. I think that there are still, though, a lot of teams with work to do. I think Seattle, the Jimmy Garcia trade, helped them, the Rosa Reiner trade, helped them. I think they still need one more bat. I'm wondering, there might still be a small chance at the name of that bat as Vladimir Guerrero Jr, but I tend to think that there are still some significant obstacles to making that deal, but I think Seattle has both helped themselves, but also has a lot more work to do. Yeah, that would be something. I mean, that would be the King's ransom that you have to give up for Vlad the way he's swinging the bat right now. Looking as close to his 2021 self as he has since that season. Speaking of the Blue Jays, so yeah, they've already consummated three trades and one of a player with term still remaining, that's Nate Pearson. I don't think he's at the top of anybody's priority list, but he just actually would have been a part of this Blue Jays mix next season, and they move them off to the Chicago Cubs. How do you think the Blue Jays have done so far in trade? John, there's one prospect that's at the upper levels of the minor leagues. In fact, was on the Mariners Major League roster when they acquired him in Jonathan Class A. But yeah, as the first foray into the trade mix for the Blue Jays, how do you think they fair with these first three trades? I think pretty well because they've addressed one of the issues that they've got, which is position player depth towards the top of the farm system and really looking at players that could potentially impact this team as everyday guys who would then come through the system. I realize it wouldn't be originally drafted by the Jays, but at least come through the system at some point. Six of the seven players they've acquired are position players. So that, which I think just tells you where they believe they have some needs. And certainly they still have some pitching needs too, but they really are prioritizing on the position player side. Class A, depending on what moves the Jays make in the next couple of days, we could see them in the Major Leagues this week. Potentially just based on where the roster needs are. He is athletic. He can steal a base for you. He's got an OPS of about 850 at Triple A this season, still pretty young at 22. So he's a really nice prospect. I think he's probably the best, the most highly regarded of the seven guys that they acquired. I like, with the Janssen deal, they got two short stops. And Cutter Coffee is one that I'm going to watch carefully. He's 20 years of age, big time tools. I've been told that just it's been a little bit of an issue of consistency, but you like the tools that he brings. And he can really, he can throw, he's got a plus arm, runs well, power, the hit tool hasn't been there in terms of just hitting for averaging and getting on base enough. But he's at high A, and so he's someone that we should watch carefully. So Cutter Coffee, one of the short stops they acquired. And the Pearson deal, as you would expect, based on how we framed Pearson's season and his value fluctuating so much, both of them are a bit longer term and maybe more long shots to make an impact on the Major League roster. But Pinango is someone that you look at his ability. He's got some pretty good exit velocity, pretty decent bat, whereas Rivera is pretty much a glove first, middle infielder. - So the Blue Jays are still adamant that they're going to try and compete in 2025. And none of the moves would indicate that that's untrue again, like only one player with years of control has moved and that's Nate Pearson, who's a middle reliever. I mean, is it possible before tomorrow's trade deadline that we see the Blue Jays actually do some buying as well? As you mentioned, it's not a normal trade deadline. We see seller to seller trades, buyer to buyer trades. Like, could we see the Blue Jays actually start their work for 2025 before tomorrow's deadline? - I think that's exactly the way to look at it. And the Cubs would tell you that that's exactly what they did with Isak Paredes, who nominally was someone that a lot of contending teams that believe they can win the World Series this year were trying to get and ended up being that he was acquired by a team that's been in the last place for a while. And of course, the Cubs gave up Christopher Morel to do it, but that was a very interesting trade. And I think for the Jays, and I mentioned Vlad earlier, where I think things stand there is where I think they've stood for a long time, which is they have not told teams that they are 100% definitely forever keeping them. But they've also said, if you're gonna make us change our team for 2025 and diminish our production at that position, you're gonna have to come to us with a pretty remarkable offer that we just can't refuse. And obviously that hasn't happened yet. And again, there's a pretty high bar for someone to clear. Seattle could potentially clear it if they really put together an outstanding package. They've got Harry Ford, who's a young catcher, and that could help address what is now a need at that position. When you think about the Jay's Dev chart going forward that without Janssen, and maybe they could sign them back this off season, but Ford is someone that is in the high minors now and could potentially catch in the major leagues as early as next season. So that's one possibility to watch. I think you also look at the middle infield strength that the Mariners have as well. And again, this is kind of a theme of what the Jay's have done. You can never have enough short stops because short stops can impact you in a lot of different ways. And the Mariners have three of them at the top ends of their farm system. So if they put one of those, whether it's Emerson, Young, put one of those short stops in there along with Ford, you start getting to the spot where you've gotta think about it if you're the blue Jay's. And then ultimately it's up to Ross and Mark and their team to see what's best for the long term. But I do think they have not closed off that possibility. If they were not gonna ever trade them at all, they would've said that exactly explicitly by now and they haven't. So I think we keep an open mind there. I think that the one player that we can feel pretty confident will move is Kakuchi. And I think that the Jay's are fortunate in that a lot of teams that are typically, that are very active at the deadline are looking for starting pitching. The twins are one, the Padres are another. We know, of course, the Yankees might add one more. I think Baltimore still wants to add an arm. So there are a lot of teams out there that I think could benefit from Kakuchi. And I expect the Jay's to get a fairly decent package back when they move him in the next couple of days. - Yeah, that's what I kinda wanted to touch on there. Floria moves this week. Do you think they, and again, obviously, if they felt like they had the right deal at any point in time, I'm sure they would've struck it. But do you think they benefit from kind of waiting until, you know, it's just factually closer to the deadline. Every second we talk here that he's not moved or do you think there's maybe a chance where at the tail end of the deadline they're holding an asset and maybe they held on to him too long. Not to say they won't move him, but they just get a lesser return. How do you think they've played out the kind of timeline of this so far with Kakuchi specifically? - Well, I think, Brad, that they've done a good job of moving, but by making three trades already, you at least sort of start to sequentially direct your efforts in different ways. Now, you can obviously have different, you know, multiple trade conversations happening at the same time. That's normal and standard. But I do think that when you make some moves and you move some players out and you bring some value back, it just sets a good pace. I think allows teams to realize that you're making deals. There's no way, for example, that another front office could say about the J's that they were putting unrealistic price tags out there because they made three trades in about 24 hours. So clearly they're open for business. They're able to execute and get trades over the finish line. I think all of those signs are very encouraging. And I do think the twins are a team that we should watch here because obviously the Derrick Falvey, who's the twins president of baseball operations, knows Ross very well from Cleveland. And when you look at the pairing here potentially, Minnesota needs more pitching. And they've been able to do deals in the past, but Rio's obviously is one that's very notable. So that to me stands out as, okay, that they work well as front offices. And even the Seattle piece, I'm positive. 99.9% that they probably said, "Hey, could we talk Vlad now?" And the answer is probably, "Well, unless you're gonna do X, Y, and Z, not right now." They said, "Okay, let's make the Jimmy Garcia move." And then we'll come back and maybe we'll check back in later on. And I think now the next day or two is later on. So we'll see what unfolds. And I think in general, I would hope that Jay's fans see the action that's happened. And on some level they say, okay, we understand that we're ready for the future. There are some players that we know that are moving out, which is never easy, but at least they see that the front office understands where the team is and is acting accordingly right now. - Yeah, and I think expectations are kind of tempered as far as the return that you're gonna get for you, say, Kikuchi is a pending free agent and a guy that has an ERA over six since the start of June. I do wonder, I mean, you mentioned the teams that are looking for starting pitching. If the Blue Jays go a little further and start listening on a crisp acid or a Kevin Gossman who just threw his second complete game of the season, John. - Mm-hmm. Well, I think that they would listen on them, but it's sort of in the same vein of Vladi where the price tag would be rather high. And I think it's interesting, even just in the last 24 hours, there was one more injury concern that the Braves have right now. And you do wonder, okay, we know Alex is obviously a very aggressive executive and will make moves, would they pivot and want to add a starting pitcher? And if they do, would they want to add someone who's under control for a little bit longer? And there are teams out there with pitching needs who, for example, just because of where their overall ball club is and the number of guys, like in the case of the Braves with Max Freed being a free agent after the season is over, you would love to add someone now who can be part of your rotation for next year too. The one thing I would say is, if you make that move, if you're the Jays, you have to get some young pitching back. Because one thing we've seen with this team, we know that Kikuchi will be a free agent. Manoa, of course, out for the year, you start to think about who is my 2025 rotation and it's getting pretty thin at this juncture, especially if you trade Kikuchi and one of Bassett and Gossman. So, and I think that's the key thing that you alluded to at the beginning. If your standard is that we're gonna make some moves that still strengthen our team for 2025, if you trade Gossman or Bassett or Vlady for that matter, you need to get back some right now talent and I think especially on the pitching side. I'm encouraged by Yariel Rodriguez and what he can do next year potentially and coming in. I think he looks like someone that is the further acclimates to MLB is gonna be able to be a starter for you, which I think is really good news for the Jays, that's a very successful signing by them. But they're gonna have to be aggressive now to make sure that they bring back some sort of 2025 pitching, plus look at what will likely be a very busy, free agency period for them as well. - Yeah, 'cause they wanna win in 2025, which you understand considering that this front office has been here for a decade and they haven't won anything and we're staring down the barrel of the end of team control for Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bassett. But that being said, like say there was somebody that didn't have the baggage that this front office had and they were just parachuted into the position of running this deadline for the Toronto Blue Jays. Like is any neutral observer gonna do what this front office is going to do? And again, I understand why, because if you don't, you're admitting that your entire tenure has been a failure, but it's like some new person just gonna look at the situation that the Blue Jays are in organizationally and make the same decision on their own. Or is like 99% of executives without that baggage looking at this organization and saying, "Boy, we need a whole lot more than that. "We need a bigger refresh "that probably doesn't allow us to compete in 2025." - Right, and I think that's a very important question. I would say though, that with Vladi in particular, if you just look at his situation, if the team around him, that the team has it exists now, I think if you look at it objectively, even with Vladi, they're not as good as Baltimore or the Yankees, and they're probably not as good as the Red Sox either, if we're being just totally honest. And so that's where you do start to make that calculation and say if we're not as good as three teams in our division, and even one that nominally is selling right now, they're still ahead of you. So at this point, you start to wonder, who are we going to be better than, and how quickly? And my assessment of the situation is that the J's are not going to be better than Baltimore or New York next year, and they probably won't be better than Boston either. And if that's the case, then you probably should. You probably should trade Vladi. If you look at it and say the last year of team control that we have of Vlad, Bassett, and Gossman, is a year in which we can say with fairly high degree of certainty, maybe like 70% at this moment, that the J's are not as presently constructed going to be a better team than those other three teams. Now, unless you're going to spend a ton of money this offseason, which I tend to doubt. And even then, you could say, hey, I'm going to make a big push for Juan Soto. Well, I tend to think he's not going to leave New York because he's either going to be a Yankee or a Met. And so I think that it's a very good question, a very good thought exercise. And I would say that a neutral executive would come into this team and say, we've got to make more changes because we're not in the near term going to be better than the teams that we have to be better than. That's exactly what I'm seeing with the Blue Jays right now. - Yeah, it's not ideal. We'll see though, but rebuilding is not fun. So yeah, maybe this will be more fun. - John, I always appreciate the time. Thanks, buddy. - Enjoy the deadline. We'll look forward to recapping. You know, we'll replay this conversation later in the week or next week. If all of us sound very prescient and wise with what we were predicting, how does that sound? - And if we don't, we'll burn the tapes. - And if they don't, we were, this was all just off the record. It just happened to be on the radio. - That's true. - Couldn't even happen. - See you, John. - All of us guys, have a great week. - You too. John Rossi, MLB network, our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit donvalleynorthlexus.com. - I was just gonna say, like, stop me if you've heard this before, a new GM will come in and surely then the core will be pivoted off of, oh wait, I have heard that before, and oh wait, they're all still here. - Yeah, different sports. - Very different, I know. - Different sports. And I do want to reiterate what I just said at the end there with John is that like, well, one, rebuilds are not automatically going to put you in a window of contention. 'Cause the Blue Jays just did one and they did contend for a bit, didn't win a playoff game though. And also, we talked about the Tigers last week, it's been a decade of rebuild. - Yeah, taking a lot of shots, right play so. - The Phillies tried this thing and they're like, oh, we suck at drafting, it turns out. So let's just spend all the money. - Get the guy who trades for all the good guys and then pays the ones you can't trade for. - They need to build a separate Hall of Fame for Dave Dombrowski, he's like the turbo Hall of Fame. - They should have a statue of him outside of every stadium, say, in the UF scene. - And like Dave Dombrowski, I would have said, Brian Cashman too, with the last couple of years. But yeah, that's cool. Like, and he runs through all your prospects and then like, you run out of pixie dust eventually. And then he's gots to go. But you're probably winning a couple of World Series while he's your general manager. - At the very least, you're Patrick here, plugging your, Patrick Watt plugging your, 'cause you can't hear what you have to say. - So again, like, there's no guarantees with rebuilding and it's not fun, right? Like, it's generally not fun. Ask Tigers fans how fun the last decade has been for them. Brian would say it's not been fun. So I get that and trying to win is more fun. But if you can do that, and the worst place to be is trying to, it's what we went through this year, which is like, you're trying to do that and you can't, and you have no future. - Great. - And then doubling down on the no future thing with more wind now pieces, as the window factually comes to a close at the conclusion of the 2025 season, that's a bad spot to be. - Not where you wanna be at all. - Not at all. Now that being said, anything could happen. Who thought the red socks would be where they are right now? People thought they were gonna have one of the worst rotations in the history of baseball and it's been one of their strengths this season. And now all of a sudden, look like one of the young upstarts in the American League East. Maybe something surprising is happening with this Blue Jays team, but at the current moment, it's hard to anticipate. All right, time now for the Wakenryke, presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown Sportsbook 19 plus bet responsibly. As mentioned, Blue Jays are the double header to start their series in Baltimore against the Orioles at three o'clock on Sportsnet and Sportsnet 590 fans. Zach Efland making his first start as a member of the Orioles, Blue Jays just saw him. - Like you said, wasn't he just like two minutes ago? - He was a Tampa Bay Ray. He gets the start against Yereal Rod Rodriguez as the Blue Jays are the underdogs, as you would imagine, in this game plus 155 and the Orioles minus 189, the total is nine. - Yeah, I'm just not gonna screw around here. I'm just gonna take the Orioles minus one and a half. You get that plus 125 there. They just traded for a good starter and the Blue Jays just saw him. I know that in theory should bode well, but it's also the Blue Jays. I feel confident Orioles minus one and a half get a little value plus 125. - I'm gonna go the opposite here. - Okay. - Blue Jays just saw Zach Efland. - All right. - I mean, he did carve them up pretty well. But Yereal Rod Rodriguez is quite good. And Vladimir Guerrero Jr is one of the best hitters in baseball. Outside of that opening month, we had an OBS under 700. His OBS has been around 900 each and every single month of this season. There is no scarier hitter right now. It's not a like maybe Aaron Judge, then Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Give me the Blue Jays a plus 155 this afternoon. That was the Waken Reich presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sports book 19 plus bet responsibly when we come back. Speaking of those Blue Jays, we will talk to Caitlin McGrath of the Athletic. As the fan morning show continues, Ben Ennis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan.
