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All-star, closer, Kenley Janssen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? This boy isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Radford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago. It is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod. There is another fact. So, jump aboard the BIB Express. Follow and listen to baseball as I'm boring, presented by Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fresh off of his cognitive assessment at the hands of the Surgeon General to see if he is fit to continue as co-host of the Six Rings in Football Things podcast, we welcome back the esteemed Andrew Jumboheart, who enjoyed himself a nice 10-day respite from the wide world of football and all things W-E-E-I. Andy, I hope everything went well, and of course we have to address the topic at hand and ask you the question that has been burning on the minds of one and many in Patriots Nation, the wide world of Boston sports and beyond. Have you gotten your Apple Pay situation resolved? No, I called my wife and she came with her credit card 20 minutes later while I sat at the desk in front of the store and waited for her. Okay, now aside from glib topical political jokes on the up top and mention of a tweet that Andy put out, let me provide a little context. Hello and welcome back to the latest episode of course everybody. Of Six Rings in Football Things, the band is back together. As always, we are a presentation of W-E-E-I Odyssey in 2400 sports. Great show coming up today. We got a nice jam-filled Pat's Perrie. We'll discuss some of the nugs that I had in the Sunday 7 that I addressed the other day on the pod, as well as a couple new ones and we'll get Andy's spin on that. And then we'll do in the back half another of our off-season player positional previews OPPP. Today, we'll do the safety dance. Now, the tweet in question is one that was on my mind all weekend long. I laughed out loud when I read it because it only could have come from the original old man or rather mid-life man who yells at clouds and just general technology from the south coast. And we had about a 15-minute discussion of it with a giant set of belly laughs last night on The Rich Keep Show on W-E-E-I as well. Andy, apparently, was shopping for some. I'm going to guess 4th of July or 4th of July week weekend party supplies. I'm imagining there was definitely burger patties, hot-og, some buns, maybe the ingredients for or some pre-made potato salads and some other various accoutrements. Maybe there was a summer impulse purchase and they're like, "Hey, I love that Bluetooth speaker. I don't need it." "Oh, it comes with free salsa. I'll buy this." It's got a chip dip cup. So Andy checks out at BJ's and apparently he's using apple pay for the first time and it doesn't work. Okay, that's probably happened to a lot of people before. However, Andy in quintessential Andy Hart fashion, the same way that he argues in line, he waits for pizza with people on Twitter, pulls out his phone and tweets out, "What was it again? Technology sucks. Of course, the first time I tried to use apple pay, I have $300 at the checkout at BJ's and now I'm screwed." Yep, that's pretty much it. And I should have known better because it was just a little tip here. The 4th of July week BJ's is a lot like Christmas week BJ's. And when I say BJ's, everybody smirks, I'm talking about the whole store. Oh, love, yes, just people. Yes, people, get your mind out of the gutter, please. Just like the other day, somebody had to point out that in the Sunday 7 column, when I mentioned it was great to see Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski at Michael Rubin's white party, I had to do a note to Benet saying it's called the white party because Mr. Rubin requests that everybody wears white to it. It's not some sort of rally in Nashville. No, it's not Edelman, Gronk, and Brady are only allowed and some others are not allowed. No, no, no, no, it's a totally different thing. It's not the page they're receiving. There was a what we used to call the Nantucket formation from 2016. Randy Moss is like, "Wait, I used to catch passes here. Why am I not allowed in?" Well, Randy, I hate to tell. Malcolm Mitchell probably looked around and was like, "Am I the only guy?" All right, never mind. Come with the ball, Tom. All right, what is going on around here? So, yeah, no, I had forgotten my wallet, so I knew I had no fallback. I didn't have the ability to just like, because people were like, "Why don't you just get out of credit card?" Yeah, thanks, Jack Wagon. If I had a credit card, I would get out of credit card. I was trying to use technology to save my ass because I forgot high-class problem here. Had forgotten my wallet on the boat and realized it when I was in line. You are by the side note to that. You are never allowed to cape shame me again if you say, "I forgot my wallet on the boat." So, I had to use Apple Pay at the big box store. Literally, and not knowing how it works, it was amazing because I hold the phone next to it and it goes like beep and it's like processing. And I'm like, "Wow, this is really easy." Till it keeps saying processing. Till it keeps saying processing and then it goes failed. And I was like, "Excuse me?" And I'm looking around and there's like 30 deep behind me at the self-serve register. And they're not happy at all. And then the little light starts flashing that says, "Help is on the way." My ass is. No, it's not. "Help is not on the way. I'm just standing here with my thumb up my ass." And yeah, it was. And then the woman comes over and she's like, "Is this Instacart?" And I was like, "Excuse me?" I was like, "I don't know what you're saying." She's like, "Is this Instacart?" And I was like, "No, it's my cart." That's literally what I responded like it was a frickin' skit. 'Cause apparently Instacart is some like thing and apparently they have a pre-order system that you can't figure in the pandemic for people who wanted to do remote shopping. But I guess there's frequent payment issues or something with Instacart orders or something. And I'm like, "No, no, no. I have a cookout tomorrow." And I'm like, "I'm thinking in my head. I'm not leaving this cart. I will chain myself to this cart like I'm a protester on 93 South. You are not getting me away from this cart with all my meat in it and everything." So yeah, then the lady goes, "Well, I can clear this or something." And you can sit out front. And I was like, "Okay." And she's like, "Maybe somebody else can come pay." So I literally had to do the 20-minute seat o' shame at a little bench by the service desk with my cart in front of me. Oh my word. Just everyone look at this man over here who didn't bring an alternative payment. Yeah. And all because Apple Pay. And I have the email that says, "Your Discover Card is now connected to Apple Pay and ready for use." So I still don't know what went wrong. I haven't tried to use it again. I may never try to use it again. F Apple. You got a warehouse full of cash in California. You ain't getting any of more of my cash, bitches. Well, until I need anything. Wow. This has been a very salty border line, explative laden tirade from Andy as we catch up on how his life went. And of course, the great Apple Pay dilemma at BJ's of 2024. I just thought it was very funny. Who knew you came here? Nothing worse. He's with Apple Pay. He's actually no longer with this. But it's a reminder to everyone try not to pay for your BJ's with Apple Pay. It's great. I'm so glad the podcast has gotten off to a very family. J's are best paid for with cash. And it's also a cautionary tale. We've lost 90% of the listenership at this point. Terp, we should probably just restart JK. It's also a reminder that if you're going to test out some sort of new technology, payment method, et cetera, usually maybe do it at the corner gas station or something. Just get like a candy bar or maybe like a soda. And then if it goes through, hooray. Now I've updated. Well, I never planned on using it because I hate technology. And then I had to. And then technology failed me. Well, while you are on the boat, hopefully you are keeping in touch and in tune with everything going on at WEI, the Six Rings podcast, Pass Nation and beyond. Oh, come on. We know you're just like Stacey James and everyone else at one Patriot Place. Your ears are extended. The antennae are always up. And even if you're in relaxation mode, I know you've got your finger on the pulse of the pat's people Andy Hart. I'm like that guy in NFL Network. What's his name? I don't know. There's not many of them. Oh, dude. He's not there anymore. Interest is Cilliano. He's gone too soon. Oh, that's sad. I know. They dismantled everything. By the way, side note, why would you get rid of the Around the NFL podcast? That's one of the best football podcasts. What is going on with the NFL media and the NFL Network? All these people are paying for the fact that they screwed people over with their Sunday ticket package and the punitive settlement that came out that was like $5 billion. Eighteen games probably coming up as well too because the NFL does not want to lose any of its gigantic country dominating rev share. All right. Eight minutes into the podcast. We'll finally get into the stuff that's the nitty gritty of Pass Nation right now. All right, Andy. A couple of things that took place over the last 10 days that I would like to get your spin on or maybe an informed explanation. So when you see Matt Judon tweet out a day after Jelani Tavai gets a contract extension. First, quick take on the Tavai extension. I thought it was a quality move. It's again, another solidification of the core and another guy getting rewarded. But we shouldn't be doing cartwheels, but are you happy about it? Yeah, definitely no cartwheels, no streamers, no fireworks unless they're leftover from the fourth. But no, good solid contract for a good solid player who you know, I think, had as impressive an evolution over the last couple of years from. Why did we bring this guy in from Detroit who Patricia likes to. Huh, this guy is pretty good and kind of plays every down and he's good on special teams too. This is, this is a classic Patriots player here in the mold of whatever you want to call it. Mike Raybull, Roman Pfeiffer, Rob Ninkovich, these guys that, you know, Bill Woodjoker role players and then come to find out their role is to play every down and be really important players for our team. And that's what he is. And exactly, he played 75% of the snaps last year and was second on the team in tackles. Like you didn't give him a boatload of money. It's nothing that's going to, you, A, you have a lot of money because you didn't burn cash through the offseason. And B, these are the types of if they get back to where they want to be in the next year or two. These are the types of players. I always say this, Jelani Tavai on like the dynasty Patriots would have been a borderline star. But the reality is he's just a pretty good player on a pretty bad team right now. And so it kind of gets forgotten. But if you get back to where you want to be, if Christian Gonzalez is who he's supposed to be. And if Christian Barmore is who's he's supposed to be. And Kyle Dugger is who he's supposed to be. And you develop key on white is who he's supposed to be. Then all of a sudden you're going to really appreciate having a guy with the skills of Tavai. He's not a top five defensive player for you. He's in that second tier. But he's really good at that. And he's really valuable if it's blended with those other stars doing what they're supposed to do. And you know, you can pay him for three years what you have Matthew Judon looking for for one year, right? Like it's value. So it's a three for one kind of deal. So I love it. Love it. I appreciate it as well. And I think it's actually going to be like these building blocks, these foundation pieces that you're talking about. Getting in for new Jennings, three for 12, Jelani Tavai, three for 15. These are going to be your core guys that will hold the edge, make the play, continue to never really be out of place. And hear their name called more often than not for making a positive play that will allow your stars, like potentially key on white or Christian Gonzalez or Matthew June on if he's still here. And more to flourish. So agreed. I think it's a solid move. Now, the aforementioned Matthew June on. Yeah. So a day later. So we know he's been talking about he's not going to do a sit in. He's been using a lot of gifts and a lot of memes to share his feelings on the socials. Assistant GM Judy has over the last several weeks. June 21st, he tweets out, you know, the year too old Edelman yelling at Brady on the sideline, Jeff, gift, whatever you call it. And then says, Lord, I know others have been getting theirs. I'm going to get mines. Hopefully someday soon. Then a few days later, he uses the Leo DiCaprio face from Wolf of Wall Street. Like I'm not going anywhere. So that means he's not going to do a sit in or hold in or a hold out or a sit out. He's going to show up to camp. He'll be there on time. That's great. He's not going to cough up any money. Then the day after Tivai signs his extension, June on tweets using a SpongeBob meme. All right. I'm a head out. Now it's July 3rd. Was that for the holiday or was it more likely that he saw Tivai get paid before he did? And he's not happy about the fact that he hasn't gotten his deal after Duggar, after Jennings, after Onwenu, after Tivai. After Tivai now, I'm sure he's getting a little frustrated. Okay. So you're better in this where I hate this. Correct. I know you can. Social media. Yeah. Interpretation and assessments and whatever. So, I mean, because we never know if it has to do with what we think it has to do with, oh, his contract. Oh, Tivai. Oh, or is it like? Maybe he had an Apple Pay issue at BJ's. Right. Right. But maybe he's just like, I'm going to head out of social media. Like, okay, I need to stop. You know, this is going down a road where sooner or later I'm going to do something bad or something I regret. Like there's no original tweets since then, Andy, to provide context. It has only been retweets of other people's content, none of his own. And that's how I wondered if it was just like, I need to stop playing the game because it's not funny anymore. Like reacting to other guys' contracts and situations is kind of funny until you're like, wait a minute. I'm really not going to get any money, am I? I'm really not going to get paid. And this isn't funny anymore. I don't want to play around. I'm going to see myself out kind of thing. But the age thing, he's too old. That's just to ask for a big money extension. He's too old. That's just the fact. And I think that's tough for people to, you know, who he should call? In all seriousness. Ghostbusters. Who? Bill Belichick. The brazen man about town on Nantucket who has been popular on social media photos of late. He's just enjoying a little summer vacation with his new paramour. Yeah. And they're definitely, you know, in contact with each other. Touchy touching. As somebody said, she's reaching second base in that photo. But, like, I think Bill Belichick influenced her in the wild. What a time to be alive. It really is. And I thought panda videos were the best content on social media. It's become Bill Belichick watching from afar. But no, I think Bill learned. Doesn't matter how good you are, whether you're a goat coach or a, you know, four straight year, five straight year, whatever it is, Pro Bowl pass rusher. If you're older and maybe coming off a questionable season, your value is greatly diminished. Bill Belichick learned he's too old, right? Nobody was just going to lay down and hand over the keys. And I think Matthew Judon is probably learning the lesson that when you're 32, coming off kind of a lost season, you're no longer a high end big ticket pass rusher. Even though the job you do is valuable, you're not in the prime of your earning career. And it is what it is. How this plays out. You know, is he a man of his word? Because he's not good. He called it trash, I believe, the way he handled last year. The trash man. Yeah. If he's a man of his word and is not going to be trashy, then he kind of just needs to shut up and play and see what he gets at the end of the year, I think. So right now, currently taking a look at the top paid. Would you consider, I'm using Spotrack and they have a nice little feature where you can see the top average annual value deals for players of every position across the spectrum in the NFL. Now we're talking like hyper specific as well. Would you say we should look at defensive line, defensive end or edge for Matthew, or linebacker for Matthew Judon? Because I don't know exactly which position you want to qualify him as. Edge. I would say. Okay. All right. So I'm looking at edge. And right now, the current average annual value leader is Nick Bosa at 34 million a season. Josh Allen, 28 million a season. Brian Burns, 28 million, Miles Garrett, 25, Von Miller. Stop me when you think we're going to get to Judon territory. Then we have- Wait, you want Judon want territory or Judon worth territory? Actually, I would appreciate both from you because if the social media aspect of things is my forte or my lane, then figuring what he wants versus what he's worth would be yours. Okay. So it's a fun little game. Stop me when we get there. Bosa 34. Josh Allen, 28 million. Brian Burns, 28 million. TJ Watt, 28 million. Miles Garrett, 25 million. Daniel Hunter, 24 and a half million. Sean. Okay. I think you're in the want world. Okay. So somewhere between Max Crosby and Daniel Hunter and the 23 to 24 million. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to keep going. Max Crosby, 23 and a half million. Bradley Chubb, 22 million. Leonard Williams, 21 and a half million. Trey Hendrickson, 21 million. He also wants more money. Also older, I believe. That's the one thing that you need to blend in here is some of the- Yep. You know, you're paying for the future and the health and all that. All right. Von Miller's 32. And he's getting 20 million a season up in Buffalo. And he's been very, he's been unproductive since he- And we all thought it was stupid the day it was signed, right? And you were correct. All of us that said, that's a bad deal. We were actually correct. Khalil Mack is 33 still with the Chargers. 19 million. Jonathan Grenard, who switched places with Daniel Hunter up in Minnesota. 19 million a season. He's also five years younger than June on. Harold Landry coming off of an injury, only 25 years old, 17 and a half million. I think you're getting down into- If you want him and you think he's still good, I think you're getting down into the world where that's probably fair market value. Aging, but still talented, has something to prove. I think you could maybe sell yourself on that. Cam Jordan's only making 14 million a season. That's just a slight uptick over what Judon's getting paid now as well. Alex Hysmith is making 17 million a season. So it would be interesting to hear what Judon's want and wishes versus what maybe the Patriots would consider or be potentially willing to extend themselves for. So now let's get into this. Well, I think you're- Just throw this out here. Go for it. Let's just say there's a 10 million dollar window between 15 and 25 million a year. And I think Judon's probably on the higher end and the Patriots are probably on the lower end of that window. Correct. I think that's safe to assume as well. But do we think the Patriots- This is I think the million dollar question or the multi million dollar question, the crux of it all. I think we believe the Patriots want to extend Matthew Judon and have him join this contractually extended core for the next couple of years. It's a- I think so. I think he can bring value still both as a player. I don't know that there's been a severe decline in his skill. Just an injury. Now obviously that took him out last year. But injuries happen. Now I also believe injuries tend to happen more the older you get and the more wear and tear you have on your body like those think you, as the great Paul Parello says, you generally don't get healthier as you get older. Like it's just the harsh reality for basically everybody not named Tom Brady. That's just, that's just the reality. So, but I do think they kind of want him. I do think you can sell yourself on because you don't have the next guy. Uche hasn't proven himself the next guy. Keon, whoever you think might be the next guy is not right now the next guy. So, the other issue here is the length of term. Not just the, you know, is it, is he looking for four years, $25 million a year, four years and a hundred? Is he looking for, you know, willing to take one with an option? Like that's, that's a key factor here too. But I do think the team on a palatable deal is open to him getting an extension. I would imagine so as well, but it has to be. I don't necessarily say team friendly because that's a term that the, the Belichick era Patriots would more likely throw out. Whereas now they would at least try to pay him fair market value. But he can't be expecting to make Nick Bosa money. If he's several years, several years older coming off an injury as well. Something in that, I think something in that. Alex Highsmith, you know, a little, a market based raise from the contract. He first signed, which lured him away from Baltimore to New England. I think something that would be fair as well. And look, if the Patriots decide that they're not going to extend him, do you think they just let him play out the season or would a trade possibly be in the cards? I think you have to trade him personally. Now, I don't know, you know, how much you'd get for him. I don't know what his trade value is. You know, a team would be renting him heading towards the end of the contract. And he's proven that he, you know, over the last couple of years has proven that he wants more money, wants to be paid higher. I don't know who teams perceive that, like you're bringing in a guy who is looking to cash in. I was going to say, I think an interesting comparison might be different, um, stratosphere of money, so to speak. But remember when we were talking about Hunter Henry and we're like, well, he's one of your best targets. You'd like to have him back, but he was making $12 million a year. Do you really want to pay him, you know, he's probably looking for a raise. Do you really want to pay him 13 or 14? They got him back on a lower contract, right? So, right. And he's a little, he's still very productive and a little younger. And I would say he's almost the Matthew Judon of his position. I agree. And can you get Judon to see it the way you somehow got Hunter Henry to see it? Like I want to be here, whatever. I want to be part of the next phase. I'm able to take a little bit less. Last contract was my big one. This one is still nice, but not, not a raise. Usually in this world, everything goes up, right? Inflation. It's just three out contracts, everything we pay for as human beings. If you could talk, Judon into at least a level-funded deal, if not a slightly lower deal, kind of like you did with Hunter Henry, then I definitely think there would be a ground for an extension and to continue the relationship as you build around the greatest defense that we've seen since the 2000 Ravens. Oh boy. Here we go. Wait, what? All right. All right. And a column that Andy Hart was on his return. Here we go. Snarkatron. Yeah. Oh, hey, it looks like it's Snark Week here on the Discovery Channel. Snark Attack. Andy Hart published a column. I included a little nugget in the old Sunday seven over the weekend talking about what are the realistic defensive expectations for your 2024 New England Patriots. And obviously, depending on whether or not we actually get Matthew Judon back on the defense as well, and if they can stay healthy, it seems like expectations are pretty high, locally, and nationally, for the Patriots defense. Andy sort of, I won't say fully poo pooed that, but definitely wasn't as on board as the majority of everybody else. Would you care to explain, sir, why you may not be as on board as everyone else, especially considering you are the one who had professed it's the off season. So it's time for everyone to party or at least have higher expectations and enjoy themselves. Sure. It's time for hope. The hope has turned into hype surrounding the Patriots defense, and I'm not quite willing to go there. I tried it. Do I think the defense is the best part of the team? Absolutely. I don't know that you'd get an argument from anyone against that. I mean, they kind of proved it when they said, wow, we really need to go out and get some offensive players. We're going to leave the defense the way it is. You got Mars. What's his name? Marcel? Marcelus Dyle. Marcelus Dyle. He's your only defensive draft. Like, there's even been joking about it that, you know, that Elliott Wolf apologized to Gerard Mayo. Oh, sorry. But we had to do what we had to do kind of thing on draft weekend. But there's a different stream being the strength of your team and being, you know, Mina Kimes has them as I think her fourth best defense in the NFL. Top tackling defense, yeah. Which to me, that and $3 gets you. Who gives a rat's ass if you can tackle? This is not an NFL where tackling is the premium. The premium is pressuring the quarterback and forcing incompletions through the air, right? That's the premium defense. Your cornerbacks, your pass rushers, tackling. Oh, great. Hey, that was a nice tackle. He made 12 yards downfield. Woo, wee. First and 10. Oh, when he tackled that guy in the end zone after he caught it. Wow. That was awesome. Touchdown. Well, also, but if tackling had been an issue previously or as an issue on other teams where people are able to evade tackles, gain extra yards, yards after contact, et cetera, if the Patriots are able to utilize their strength of solid tackling, fundamental tackling and prevent those yards after contact, that is potentially, I won't say a big deal, but that's a plus on their side or a feather in their cap. Yeah, feather in a crappy cap, I would say. Oh boy. All right. He's back. The vacation. It's, it's, it's sort of like I don't necessarily believe you win in a lot of sports with light, like baseball. Defense doesn't necessarily win you games and championships. Bad defense can lose you games, absolutely. And I look at tackling that way. If you're a good tackling team, but don't have a great pass rush, can't really cover. Okay. Great. We can tackle it. We're still going to get our asses whooped because the other teams going to get open. They're going to drop back. They're going to throw the football, whatever. Bad tackling is a problem. Bad tackling can cost you, as you said, yards after catch, like I'm covering the guy at eight yards, but now he breaks a tackle and it turns into 15. I think that is on field demoralizing, but also spiritually and energetically demoralizing for a defense and for a team. But I look at this team. The defense has been pretty good in recent years. Correct. More statistically, I think than eyeball test and weighted towards really good performances against bad quarterbacks, bad offenses, injured offenses, backup quarterbacks. When they have faced the cream de la creme, the creme de la creme, they have struggled at times, right? So you're facing a lot of really good offenses. In the first month, you have the Bengals where Joe Barrow is like pulling a Randy Moss. And he's like, when you're injured, people forget about you. I'm going to remind him who Joe Barrow it like he's got some swagger and you're the, you're the effing sacrificial lamb on opening day. If Joe Barrow was able to play half as good or half as well as he looked like a psycho-killer in the photo with Tom Brady at Michael Rubin's white party, I would be worried. And you're, you're the pinata. You're dangling in a tree and he's got a stick. We might very well be the worst appetizer served for the Joe Barrow. And then you got what the 49ers a couple of weeks later, the dolphins, like you have, especially early in the year. I'm not sure how I feel about the dolphins yet. I know we've got a lot of time to discuss the national scene as well as everything pertaining to the Patriots. And I can't wait till we get our predictions on the books here and on the Rich Keep Show as well. But what were the dolphins early last year? Frontrunners good offensively. And then they fell apart. I'd rather play the dolphins twice in December because then I think you could be injured. You could like front runners, you could have faded. Early season dolphins, I think, can be scary season dolphins for a Patriots defense or any other defense. And this doesn't even get into what we were just taught like, is Matthew Jude on healthy? Is Matthew Jude on on the field? Is Christian Gonzalez healthy? Is he on the field? Is he good? Is he as good as everybody is fluffing him up to be when we don't have a huge track record to go by? To me, you marry a, oh, oh, oh, did I also kind of forgot Bill Belichick is now taking photos with his young girlfriend on Nantucket. He's not taking part in game planning on a weekly basis. And I've been told by you people, you people, say it, we've got flatter for the people in the back, Andy. You people tell me he's arguably the greatest defensive mind in the history of the sport, correct? So, so I've been told, yes, there's also, so he's been removed from the coaching process. He's been removed from the game planning process. And you're going to be not missing a beat, not skipping a beat without him. Like, to me, there's just a lot of, um, would be pitfalls that people are just whistling past the graveyard. Like, well, they, they tackle well. Yeah. Christian Gonzalez played well for three games. Yeah. I actually, you know, I actually think you're the point because I think to Marcus Covington, uh, you know, people are high on him as well. Maybe he'll be able to run out. True. He called defensive plays at Eastern Illinois 10 years ago. Maybe he'll be able to maybe he'll be the contemporary style. Listen, don't tear a labrum patting yourself on the back. We already have enough people on the Patriots with torn labrams, or at least that are recovering, but, uh, maybe you, you did too. Okay. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. Still makes funny noises sometimes when I lift. So maybe Covington will be like what Brian Flores was in 2018 coming out with a streamline simplified defense, allowing the playmakers to play, get after the QB and you can use some of Gerard Mayo's previous on field defensive acumen as well, not to mention the years he spent working under Bill Belichick and alongside Steve Belichick on the Patriots defense. I'm really not worried about the defense. I can see wanting to temper expectations that this is the 1985 Chicago Bears or even the 2018 New England Patriots defense. But that's it. Oh, by the way, it's definitely going to be a win games. Uh, I've been told it wins championships. Yeah. Does it? Five years ago, that defense no longer wins championships. And that's when he started loading up on talent. That was like first round running backs, first round wide receivers and decided, yeah, those days are dead. So even if the Patriots defense is as good as people try to tell me it is, which it isn't, it just flat out isn't mean a kind by the way with the Patriots is a little bit like Doris Burke with Jason Tatum. She has her an affinity for your, she's one of you people. She like her. Some of you and one of us people. She want to you people. And, um, I know why some of it is she's fixated on the, um, the stats. She's a, she's a quant. She's one of those quants that just loves to read the numbers and the numbers, more often than not in recent years, as Bill Belichick himself pointed out when he was praising the work of his son. Oh, by the way, who just happened to be helping call plays for the defense, he loved to point out the numbers. Well, the numbers can be misleading. And that's the reality. The numbers are not going to help you on opening day when Joe Barrow has a be in his bonnet and goes, do I want to whoop your ass with Jamar Chase or do I want to whoop your ass with T Higgins? Cause either way, I'm whooping your ass. And who's the new starting running back in, uh, Cincinnati as well since Joe mix in, made his way to the Houston Texans, Devin Singletary went to the New York Giants to replace a Juan Barkley who went to the Philadelphia Eagles. Who is the new starter out in Cincinnati? I forget that's, that's actually, that's actually a reasonable question. Anyway, while you look that up as well, um, I would like to share that the Patriots did have the seventh overall ranked team defense last year as well, better against the, they were fourth against the run, I believe in 11th against the past. Look, you bring up Christian Gonzalez. Obviously, everyone goes Gaga because they see him on one of those, you know, at flight goals or angles. Have Mike Gassicki. Why? I didn't know that. Wait, hold on. The bagels. Wait. Hold tight. They also have Trent Brown. So let me change my whole tune, see getting soft on your vacation. Look at you. Uh, now it's going to be, I think it's going to be, I think it's a great week, one matchup for the Patriots as well. I'm fascinated. So that one goes. So potentially many seasons in the AFC and many divisions could go. Who is their starting running back now, by the way? Zach Moss. According to the, oh, the highly underrated Zach Moss. He actually like, he's, he was actually pretty good at times last year. So it could be a good pickup for the Bengals as well. And probably a little less troublemaker-ish, if you will, than Joe Mixon off the field. So allegedly, whatever, um, so they were the seventh ranked overall defense last year. If Gonzalez is healthy, a lot of ifs, I know if, ifs, ifs, such a big word for only two lives. It's my head. It's balls. No, we don't need that. Yeah. But if Christian Barmore can play up to the level that merited the four year, $92 million contract as well, they could at least keep them in games or be the more respectable side of the ball. I think we all need to be far more concerned with the offense. And that'll bring up our last little point here, Andy, in this extended supersized paths per read to kick off the latest edition of six rings and football things. I'm sure you saw as well. We had a discussion about it on multiple radio shows. We've written about it at.com. It's been bad at about social media. The props for Drake May and all quarterbacks for the 2024 season have hit the sports books. And while it's very difficult to find a Jacobi percent prop, it is rather easy to find a passing yard, passing touchdown and top rated rookie passer prop for the 2024 season, and especially for young Drake May on the NEP. Are you over or under the fan dual passing yard total for Drake May, 2024, Andy? 2350 and a half yards. This is where optimistic Andy jumps in. This is where biased Andy. This is where the maniac that is Andy jumps in. Give me the over. And I'm hoping that this means the we've talked a lot about the over under on when he starts, when he plays, maybe as early as week two, maybe week six, somewhere in there, a home game, whatever. But 11 games, can I get 200 yards per game? Let's just say it's week six, right? So like 11 games ish. Can I get 200 yards a game out of you? Probably not going to average that, but I'm hoping there's a wauzer in there against somebody where you, you know, we're all doing victory laps that he's our quarterback because he threw for 370 or something like that. I'm taking the over, but again, that is with that is where I'm putting on little Andy with his Andrei tippet mid 80s jersey, pom pom waving, rosy red Patriots. That's where I'm up on the wall with you guys who used to be so loyal, you and the Jerry Thortons of the world up there. That's where I'm joining the, I'm joining you people. We, we the people take the over in Drake May. All right. So I got a bunch of responses on the Twix machine the other day to such a question. I got under, under, under, under, under, under, under, it's not playing next year. Under, under, under, under, one over, under, under, over, under, over, so that's three overs under, under, under, under, over, so I got, he's not playing the season five. So I got of 30 responses. So that's, I got all told, that was five unders and over 20 unders. So just saying that's what the people think. The people are stupid. Oh, hey, that's not nice. The truth is never me. Ah, no, that's an opinion and that is subjective and unless you can actually qualify it with some actual facts. Okay. By the way, if you actually, if you made me bet on it, like real money, if you said anything, you have to take it. Yes. It's draft King's 2400 fan dual 2350, I would take the under see, see you want. So optimistic Andy wants the over because that means there's more Drake May on the field, which winner lose, come hell or high water is probably a more entertaining or at least informative bit of Patriots action this year because people would rather see the future develop in front of their faces as opposed to watching Jacobi Bursett out there take the slings and arrows of a very anxious nation. By the way, I just want to share this from 1993 drew blood so started right away for the Patriots as they improved from two wins to five wins from 92 to 93 in his first year of the Patriots as a rookie, he passed four under bill Parcels, 2,494 yards, 15 touchdowns and 15 picks over 13 games played. So something like that, maybe he's going to play relatively early. But the questions I have is, do I get yardage that is actually interception returned the other way? Because that would help me get the over if I needed it. And does the left tackle get him killed? Does he start and then miss three weeks because he's got a bad ribs or something that the left tackle spot is, I would say borderline alarming for this team to see what happens at that spot and how that affects the passing game in the quarterback position in general. Exactly. Fascinating stuff, so many different points of interest and emphasis to keep an eye on as we are now just but to that's right, Utah, give me two, two weeks away from the start of Pat's camp, 2024, and the one place you are going to want to be locked in and keep both good eyes focused and your other two good ears trained on will be the six rings and football things podcast and our coverage at W E E I dot com. We will be there every day, some sort of blend or mix of me collaboration going to be it's going to be silo free, collaborative, there'll be a bunch of us down there on a regular basis. And we will have fresh video and fresh six rings and football things, reaction pods to each and every paths camp practice, as well as live shows after each and every Patriots preseason game. So don't you go anywhere, lock it in and tell your friends to join the fastest growing and most fun Foxborough football community out there. Hey, fantasy football owners, the road to winning your fantasy football championships starts now. I'm Matt Harmon from reception perception. Join me and James Co as we take a deep dive into the position that's going to make her a break. You're a fantasy roster, wide receivers. We analyze route running, target share and all the metrics that matter giving you the insights you need to draft the best wide receivers as you prep for your draft. Let us give you the coverage you need, follow and listen to reception perception on the free honesty app or wherever you get your podcasts. There's a little help in or rather that is going to be defined by, I guess what we see on field in terms of whatever sort of defense the Patriots deploy. I don't even really know what to expect of this position, Andy. That would be the safeties. Now your current safeties on the roster for the New England Patriots are Kyle Dugger, Gabriel Peppers, Brendan Schuler, Marte Mapu, even though he's also listed at linebacker. And then, of course, Joshua Bledso, Del Pettis and Jalen Hawkins, perhaps even maybe Marcellus dial, though he is listed on the depth chart currently at cornerback. We'll see where the Patriots deploy him as well. As we always do, Andy, with our off-season positional previews, I'm going to ask you for the first adjective that comes to mind when you talk about the New England Patriots safety unit heading into the 2024 season, redundant. And I say that because I think the top three players at the position, all kind of replicate skills, you're really good in terms of tackling. You're really good in terms of playing in the box and the run game, physicality, because I would include Marte Mapu just athletically as probably the third best player at this position. If, as you said, you actually include him at this position and not linebacker. You know, Jabril Peppers, we all have grown to really love his style of play. Dude is just a walking muscle, it's continuous muscle from head to foot, who likes to hit people, is fun to watch, brings an energy and effort and an attitude. He might be the biggest Andy Hart youth level player on the team in terms of that. And then Kyle Dugger, you just invested, you know, $50 million in as a Pro Bowl caliber, I guess, safety. You're paying him like he's a Pro Bowl caliber, safety. But again, coverage, not really his forte. And Marte Mapu is a versatile, bigger, tweener guy, coverage, not his forte. And we've been saying for a couple of years now, like, who's the Devin McCordy, who's the deep guy, you know, Miles Bryant kind of played a hybrid part of that he is gone. So I think you're right, whether it's dial, who I don't, I'm not really dialed in on in terms of what he is yet, football, bad humor there. Just wait a second. It'll just the room will clear itself eventually. I don't, I don't have time to roll a window down and let that wafting, or, or one of these other corners, somebody is going to have to play in my mind, like, okay, we're putting our five best defensive backs out there. You're playing a hybrid safety corner role here for us because you don't have a true free safety. I brought up the idea, could a guy like Stefan Gilmore be an option and maybe do that late career, great cornerback becomes good safety transition. But yeah, I think it's in an ideal world, dugger and peppers wouldn't be so similar in sort of their playing style and abilities. And same with like you, like you pointed out, Mapu as well, who's listed in linebacker and safety on the chart. They're all big dudes. They all hit like freight trains. They all had a lot of power. I want to be clear, like them all, but it's like, it's like having three centers in the modern NBA and you're like, oh, this is great. But yeah, 25 years ago, this would have been better and today we're kind of lacking depth on the wing. Right. So my choice, similar to you say redundant, I choose unbalanced because I think it is the safety unit as of right now is weighted in terms of skill, experience and potential too heavily in the strong safety mold or the safety slash linebacker mold of which dugger, peppers and Mapu all can and do play. And I love to know who's going to be our long speedy, rangey, intelligent, recovery-based free safety. I don't really see one on the roster now unless Jonathan Jones, if you figure out corner, could Jonathan Jones play? I don't know. Like I'm spitball would dialed. Okay. So all right. This is a good question because you lose. You lost the green goblin. He sort of played that role last year. Where did he go? It's a good question. Stop asking me these questions. I'm right. It's fine about transitions in the NFL. I haven't paid attention to the transaction wire and like, okay, fine, that's fine. Any which way he's gone. No, we're like eats away at brain cells. No, it doesn't. It makes you stronger. It's like Brando. It's what plants need it that this is what this is what people need. So you just don't really have a free safety at could it be Jonathan Jones could it be actually last week I jumped on a pod with Andrew Callahan and he said maybe Marcus Jones because Marcus Jones is speedy obviously played pretty well at the cornerback spot in his rookie season as well. You don't think he's as good a corner as he is a return guy. However, he did in addition to playing a high level of cornerback in college at the University of Houston. He did also play some safety as well. So maybe even though he's a bit undersized, speedy, quick, ranging, good playmaking instincts. Maybe he'll get an audition there. I don't know. A lot of it does depend I think on what you get out of Marcellus dial and Isaiah Bolden. So in some ways, so go the young cornerbacks in this camp Andy, so may go the opportunity for someone to step in and be the starter at free safety. So there's another something we have to keep. I'm going to need a lot of eyes to keep on the action. We're going to be very busy during this past camp 2024. That's how it's supposed to work. This is when you get a feel for what the team is and can be and it's why it's my favorite part of the year. Again, there's another question on a defense like top five defense and you don't know who a free safety is. That feels like a key position in the modern NFL when you face Joe Barrow and Josh Allen and Toa and all those weapons like that. We saw it last year. Remember when Maku was in and he get toasted because they weren't quite on the same page. Like if your back end is ill fit or ill prepared, you take it up the back end and you lose game. Oh, geez. Lee Jalen Mills is on the Giants Jalen Mills. Thank you very much. Jalen Mills is on the New York football Giants. Probably if I were watching the off season edition of Hard Knocks, football life with the New York Gigantes, I would probably I've only consumed a couple of clips on the social media and how. Including the one where where Daebel says he can run a sub 740 and the scout goes no just no, but it is it is skinny day ball now, which is interesting to see as well. Looks good. Still don't think he'll run a sub 7 neither do I. It's funny watching them discuss like the at length discussion and turmoil and and toiling and restlessness they have over you know what kind of offer should we make to Saquon Barkley. We can't afford to lose him. We want to keep him on this team full well knowing that they absolutely just butchered the negotiations. And ultimately he went to their competitor for the paycheck that I think somebody like himself who went healthy as a true legit offensive weapon deserves as well. Not a great season incoming for the New York football Giants. That's my prediction. OK, so of these safeties on the roster, Dugger and Peppers, no brainers, mop who's making the team as well. They have schooler listed on the unofficial depth chart on ESPN.com, but he's he qualifies in a different position that we'll have to break down later on the specialist. Yes, he has to qualify at some position. I guess if you have to give him something, but he's he's all he's all special team. You're never really going to see Brendan schooler in its safety unless there have been a number of injuries in a particular ballgame. So yeah, I take him out of the equation, if he's playing defense, you're porked. So Andy, so Dugger's a no brainer, Peppers, no brainer, schoolers making the team, mop who's making the team. So between Dell Pettis, Jalen Hawkins and Joshua Bledso, one of those three guys, unless there's a camp edition or a trade made is probably going to make the team. Who's it going to be? Do you believe and why? I would argue probably none of the above and just I think you'll keep an extra corner and it'll be this. The job will fall to a corner unless there's a veteran edition late in this process. I think those three might be your safeties and then the back end is covered by the Isaiah Bolden's dials, guys that are sort of seen as corner backside. I'm not you're got the year of Joshua Bledso we've given up on that, right? He was your guy. Was that last year? I wanted it. So I wanted it every year's Joshua Bledso season for me and it just hasn't worked out yet. I know. That was signed away from, let's see, I believe he was signed away from the Atlanta Falcons for his special team value. He is in, let's see, he is in for a base salary this year of $1.125 million. That's also his cap hits strangely enough is higher. So he's not in his dead cap is $400,000 if the Patriots move on from him on a one year deal. So again, actually decent money. He's probably going to be on the roster. He's probably going to be on maybe is maybe he's a core special team or maybe he actually gets a shot to make safety. Callahan thinks he may actually get a chance to audition for the free safety role. Maybe again, it could be John Jones, maybe more likely Marcus Jones could get a look over there depending on how the slot corner plays out. Maybe it is somebody else that steps in. I just don't love like there's a, there are a lot of unknowns obviously on every football team right now, but I, I, I, I love things like the defensive line where we know you've got your God shows and your equal ways. And now obviously, teacher's wise and especially Christian bar more like this is going to be a strength of this football team. Once again, they're really good on the upfront as well. And if you have Jude on and Uche playing at a high level and healthy, they're going to be able to get up and key on white. That's a strength. That is unknown. That is quantifiable. When you just have no idea who's going to be your free safety at this juncture. Like you mentioned earlier, gives me a more borderline night sweats and, and don't even really have good options, like, or, or even really options, like, I mean, at least looking at it from the outside. Maybe they feel a little differently internally, but like backup running back, I don't think they have one. You have Antonio Gibson, who's a pass catcher who'll have to step up if it hits the fan and Ramanda Stevenson is hurt, but you don't really have one. Even like wide receiver where people say, well, you don't have a number one, but at least I can get mildly excited about what the Mario Douglas can do. I watched some social media video of how quick he looks and it's like, ooh, he, he looks fun to watch. Or, you know, maybe this is the year Taekwon Thornton actually does something or you have two rookies who are yes, unknowns, but what if they hit in a league where wide receivers hit free safety? I am a, I guess it's similar to backup running back left tackle, although even left tackle, at least we have Elliott Wolf telling us we believe that Okora four can play left tackle. We played it in high school, like, I don't agree, but at least they have a little bit of confidence in that idea publicly. Free safety is one of those positions where it just, it seems like they may have to get through 17 games without really having an answer. Yeah. And we know once again that the linebacker and strong safety positions have almost become like, if the same way a linebacker who plays on the outside and is almost the same size as a proper defensive end now gets called an edge player, eventually Andy, I think there's going to be a requalification or some sort of new name that's got like Antonio Gibson, like you just pointed out, he's sort of the backup running back, but he's also a wide receiver and more of as much a pass option as he is a running back. So that makes me think he's more of an OW offensive weapon. If you're going to qualify him as such, what are we going to call these linebacker safety hybrids? Because that's, that's almost what I feel like the Patriots are deploying. Like that's what, that's exactly what mop who is because he's listed at both spots. And you can't call them LBS's because that just looks like an acronym for linebacker, right? I was thinking pounds or pounds. You can't call them SLBs because that means strong side linebacker. That's always been a thing. So you can't just blend the two terms. Right. Can we call them? Yeah, we're going to need a new name. Maybe anyone in the audience, if you guys can figure out whatever the new word should be for the linebacker safety hybrids in the NFL as the modern defensive evolves, holler at us at Fitzy G f Y at Jumbo heart and of course at six rings pod. All right. Andy, as we always wrap up these off season Patriots positional previews, let's give an adjective or a term to describe what we think the Patriots safety unit will be or that will add that will appropriately describe them at the end of the 2024 season. Disappointing. Disappointing because I think at some point, people are going to say, wait, Doug, your makes how much? How come he doesn't make more plays? And I think Doug is a good but not great player who I think at some point people will circle the contract. And then I think as we've just talked about, I'm not sure there's an answer that steps up at free safety. So you're going to say, you know, that kind of that we didn't get a lot of help from the back end or as much help as we may be expected from the back end that there's a couple holes there. I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with aggressive because I think you're going to because I think you're going to be impressed by the aggressive powerful play of guys like Kyle Duggar. And of course, our guy, Gabriel Peppers, who wakes up and has a bowl of violence for breakfast every morning. I like, and maybe even Mapu, a lot of it hinges, it's hinged upon the development and deployment of Marte Mapu, ultimately where the safety unit goes as well. And I sure as hell, like everyone else would love to see who's going to play free safety. But I think those guys are one of the big reasons why this Patriots defense will either flourish or falter, sink or swim in 2024. All right. There we go. How about that? There's some hot, high quality, Pat's podding for you as Andy Hart jumps back into the fray here on six rings of football things. We will be back on the morrow Wednesday with another what if Wednesday edition. And of course, there probably will be some hot topics discussed Thursday as Hart and I jump in with Christian R. canned on the afternoon show at W E E I so stay locked in. Make sure you turn on your notifications, smash that subscribe button and tell your friends to jump in the pool. There's plenty of room for everyone here at six rings and football things. Good to have you back. Thanks very much for putting this together as always. Turp and posting it as soon as it's done. Thank you all for listening and making us a part of your regular Patriots programming in season or off. We'll talk to you soon. This has been six rings and football things brought to you by W E I Odyssey and 2400 sports for Hart for turf for everyone associated with this big old pile of football talk nonsense. Good day. God bless. Go, Pat!
Locally and nationally, there’s a strong belief in the Patriots’ defensive talent, but what are some reasonable expectations? Nick “Fitzy” Stevens and Andy “Jumbo” Hart dive into this in the latest edition of “Patspourri.” Plus, they assess what Matthew Judon wants versus what he’s worth and share predictions for Drake Maye.
The guys also continue the “Pats Positional Preview” series, addressing the Safties corps.
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