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However, perhaps if their head coach had not been too busy making over 50 telephone calls to Hempstead, New York and the New York Jets the previous week, as he was preparing for his departure, maybe, just maybe, it would not have taken another five years for the Patriots to go back to New Orleans and finally win their first Super Bowl. Yes, it was Dwayne Charles, Bill Parcells in his fourth and final year as H.C. of the N.E.P., who led the Patriots on a miraculous run in the fourth year with his quarterback, Drew Bledso, to the Super Bowl, unfortunately once again losing in the Bayou down in the Crescent City. That week also was marked by, in addition to the frustration of Patriots Nation and the leaks of the stories and the phone calls and Bill Parcells being one foot out the door, truly one of the most curious press conferences with now one of the most famous lines in Patriots history. Okay, now I'm going to quote, and I'm not trying to be cute here, okay? I'm just going to say it. They want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries. Okay? First of all, if you look at Bill and I, I think we don't lack for adequate groceries, I mean, I think, and you know, I think we've been shopping at Bread and Circus. I mean, I think our groceries are pretty good. I have no, they're fresh, you know, I mean, I like the groceries. I'd like to be flooded with groceries like that next year. That whatever way a man chooses to run his company is fine with me. I abide by that. I abide by that, and I abide by the commissioner's ruling. So I have no problem with any of that, I'm out. Shout out to the Great Bread and Circus Supermarket, someplace that many of our younger viewers and audience may be unfamiliar with. Yes, it was the decision earlier in the year to draft wide receiver Terry Glenn, as opposed to defensive and Tony Brackens that hastened the departure of up to the moment at that time, the best Patriots head coach of all time, Bill Parcells, who had turned down a job in Tampa a year prior to take over with the New England Patriots. Now, we can't say that Bill Parcells leaving the Patriots was a bad thing, ultimately, because we probably never get to Bill Parcells the way that we did, or would we, which of course began the double dynastic run. So on today's episode of What If Wednesday Here on the Six Rings and Football Things podcast brought to you by WEI Odyssey and 2400 Sports, your old pal, Nick Fitzy-Stevens, alongside today's special holiday guests, Dave Usher and Scott Prousek from the Untold Patriots stories podcast. We offer this question to you, Pat's Nation. What if Bill Parcells were able to shop for the groceries and remained as the head coach of the New England Patriots? Gentlemen, good morning. Happy July 3rd to you as well. We appreciate you joining us in place of Andy Hart. Looks like there was a bogo on guys that are Pat's long terms and diehards. So welcome to your first six rings. This is long overdue, guys. We're thrilled to have you today. Let's just put the first thing out there. When I mentioned before we get into the What If aspect of this, Dave will start with you. When I mentioned Bill Parcells, someone who now sadly is almost villainized in Patriots Nation as opposed to lionized as he should have been for helping lead the Patriots or at least beginning the emergence from the coal mine out of the darkness to what ultimately was the double dynasty. When I mentioned Bill Parcells name, what do you think? I think of fun Smashmo football. That's really, I mean, I can't separate the two. I mean, the differences between the press conferences, really, I know people in our industry, it was a big deal. But then also, you know, if you grew up around here lifelong Pat's fans like we were, you watch Bill Parcells at the Giants, right, because the Pats are so bad that they weren't on TV most of the time. So you grew up watching Smashmo football, OJ Anderson, you know, LT. Right. Yeah. Actually, Dave, that's a great point. And thank you very much to everyone who's watching live across the 50 GFI and WEI socials as we also record this the day before America's birthday. Jesse Ebner watching live on YouTube, Parcells, he screwed us out of a Super Bowl. See, that's the first thing whenever anyone, that's what happens now when you mentioned it. But that's a great point, Dave, because, you know, my old sticky line was, yeah, the Patriots, you know, the Pats were just like their fans back in the 1980s, always blacked out, you know, Parcells began the emergence for us. But we were ultimately familiar with him. I don't know if you guys had, this seems like heresy now, but we sort of had alternate teams in my household growing up because like either the Patriots sucked, they were super shitty, more often than not, or they weren't even on TV. So you would see Redskins games, Cowboys games, Raiders games, Niners games, and Giants games. And you were very familiar with Bill Parcells style of football before he became the coach here. So much so that the Giants were my younger brothers, favorite alternate team, like he just loved Otis Anderson, Phil Sims, Lawrence Taylor, Dave mega shall not be named. So he loved those guys. So we had a profound appreciation in New England for Bill Parcells before ultimately we were stunned that he actually wanted to come here for Robert Kraft and coach the team. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So I mean, when I think of Bill Parcells, I really think of him as being the one that started the turnaround and brought respectability to the Patriots. And you also think of him and, you know, you think of the four years he was here and you also have to think of great drafts. I mean, he drafted two Hall of Famers, right? So as far as that, I mean, if you look at his track record with drafts, you know, I think you can't argue with that heat. And that's what started to build the teams that would eventually become successful. And, you know, and I think, like he said in the beginning, I don't think he gets enough credit for what he did accomplishes, starting to turn that around because he put us on the map again. I mean, we weren't relevant and, you know, I think one of the funny when you look at his regular season record and it kind of surprised me, he was actually 500. Right? 32. 5 and 11 in 1993, 10 and 6 in 1994, ultimately the first playoff game that Parcells has with Bloodstone, the Pats losing in Cleveland to, ironically, not Bill Parcells on New Year's Day. And then they go 11 and 5 and 96. So what was the record in 95? What was the 6 and 10? So he ended up regular season, you know, even, right? Right. So like I said, I just think he was responsible for a lot of the benefits and the rules that we eventually saw. And you know, the question that you kind of brought up is, you know, if he was able to draft, because we all know the stuff that happened at draft, if he was able to draft, could he have sustained what happened when Belch, I mean, obviously we had Pete Carroll in the middle. But would he have been able to build the kind of dynasty that Belch had built? That's a great, that's a great question. So if Parcells and he, I mean, also, by the way, one of the commenters, Jesse Ebner says Parcells came with Orthwine, I think. Is that correct? That might be true. I'd have to go. I think he got him and then craft, that's sort of like the devil's in the details, one of those points. And in which way, the craft Parcells relationship was highly, highly productive and then ultimately dysfunctional. And then we saw it play out to a grander degree two and a half decades later with Belichick and craft as well. And we're not really sure if grocery shopping was at the core of some of their late term frustrations as well. But if Bill Parcells never left and was allowed to shop for all the groceries, then it would not have been Terry Glenn in 1996, it would have been Tony Brackens. Now obviously, he crushed most of his drafts. And like you mentioned, drafted a couple Hall of Famers and some of the, some of the tent poles and pillars of what ultimately became Bill Belichick's dynasty or at least the start of it fueled by Tom Brady and a couple of great additions in 2000 and 2001 were your Teddy Bruce keys, your Adam Vinittaries, your Thai laws, et cetera, like there were some, you know, Dave, there were some foundational pieces that Bill Parcells drafted that again, like Scott mentioned, he doesn't get nearly enough credit for. And I think that's kind of one of the, to date, still one of the great argumentative topics of Pat's nation is, you know, should Parcells be in the Hall of Fame because of just, regardless of how it ended, just for how impactful he was during those four years. Well, this is really Scott's flagpole to run up, but I've talked to him enough to know the answer to this is absolutely, and I agree, I mean, there's some bad blood there and it's, you know, we all believe it's because our KK doesn't want him in, but if you looked it on what he did to turn this franchise around and bring them to respectability, I think he absolutely deserves to be in there. And you know, you could also argue that Bill Belichick is from that coaching tree. So without Parcells, is there a Bill Belichick? So, you know, that's, that's a big piece of it as well. And I just think that, yeah, he does not get enough credit. He did exit poorly, may have cost us a Super Bowl. But had he been able to continue, I think we could have had a, had a Super Bowl. Don't know if we would have had six, but we can get into that. But we, I think we, he was bringing us to the promised land. Yeah. So Scott with Pete, so Pete Carroll goes 10 and 6, 9 and 7, 8 and 8, had a winning record as a head coach. So what did he go to? The two playoff appearances wins one game in 97, loses in 98 with Zolak, 99 missed the playoffs. Yeah, it was 27 and 21. Right. And he got fired, and he got fired for that, obviously. But I think it was mostly because of the direction the craft and everyone in charge saw the team heading in as opposed to what actually Pete Carroll's record was. But let's say Parcells. So let's just even, so let's just say he gets to, what happens in the 1996 season? If there's no Terry Glenn who was incredibly impactful and had one of the best rookie wide receiver seasons. I mean, if J Von Baker or Jalen Polk has two thirds of a Terry Glenn season this year, we'll be praising Elliot Wolf and saying, Bill, the 12 foot statue of him next to Tom Brady out in the promenade outside Gillette Stadium. So let's, let's say he gets Tony Brackens or someone else and he gets to fully shop for the groceries. Do the Patriots even make a Super Bowl run in 1996? Forget about if they win a Super Bowl ultimately with Parcells. Do they even make a Super Bowl run in 1996? But Belichick has given full draft autonomy. Parcells rather. Yeah. I think if you take Terry Glenn out of the equation, I think one of the strong points of, of Parcells was building a team. So I don't know necessarily in Terry Glenn's first year. If he wasn't with the team, they wouldn't have got as far as they did. I think Parcells would have found a way to, to get all the parts to work together and still have a successful season. I mean, maybe they don't reach the Super Bowl, but I think they definitely would have made the playoffs. Um, just, just by Terry Glenn alone, I don't think that that's the, the one reason that they made it to the Super Bowl. Yeah. I mean, Terry Glenn wasn't good. Yeah. Go ahead, Dave. I'm just going to say, if I can add to that, I agree Glenn became a, a good pick. However, if they had taken Brackens, the intent was to put him alongside William McGinnister and William McGinnister was coming off his, his best and really at that time, but also his career season, you know, in 88 tackles, 11 sacks, four force fumbles. I mean, you put the, that, that was the point. I, you know, as we look at what if Bill Parcells kept going, one of the first things I thought of was William McGinnister's in the Hall of Fame because I think he builds it up and he makes him that much of a better player, you look at the numbers while he was injured during the Carol years, you know, he probably played 14 less in, in, in three years there, but they weren't really comparable. You know, he just didn't, didn't do it for, for Pete for whatever reasons where I think Bill would have motivated him the whole way and brought in the pieces around him and he was going to be his LT. Yeah, it's funny. If you think, if you think about it, like, Bledso lies as some of the commenters are mentioning now, Bledso lacked a true wide receiver one, and my God, how long have we talked about Pat's needed deep threat, you know, Mack Jones needs wide receiver one, they're going into the season with a bunch of wide receiver twos, you know, Brady, look what Tom Brady did during the seasons where he had a true, we'll just call it weapon one or target one with Moss and a Welker and obviously Gronk, who was, you know, not just a Titan, but truly one of the great offensive threats of all time in the NFL. He flourished and there always was something that had to be respected and it opened the entire game up with, okay, so with Brackens, if he comes in, yeah, William McGinnis maybe it becomes a Hall of Famer. Now you've got these, you know, bookend pass rushing monsters, the edges are constantly set in the Patriots defense in 1996, which ultimately got them to the Super Bowl, by the way. Glenn contributed against Pittsburgh with that bomb on the opener, but then it was ultimately the defense that shut down the jags in the AFC Championship and, you know, everyone remembers where they were when Otis, my man Smith, recovered the fumble and took a 50 some odd yards back to the house. I think that was like the first ever snow fireworks that erupted in Foxborough too, such a great moment. Yeah, he had, he had been coach as well, but that wide receiver one really opened up the offense for the Patriots that season as well. So maybe they make it back to the playoffs. I don't know if they go all the way to the Super Bowl because Glenn had 167 targets that year, 90 catches, I don't know if that's a testament to, you know, how well covered Glenn was at times or blood, so is an accuracy that he still had 90 catches, but was targeted almost twice as many times like he was a massive contributor. But all right. So without him, they don't have the offense isn't the same, but maybe they do have a stellar defense. So they go to the playoffs, we'll say in 1996, maybe they make it to the divisional round, maybe even to the AFC Championship with a, you know, Giants-esque defense that Belichick can just do all these wonderful things with for Parcels. So he sticks around. Now it's 1997, that was the year Carol got one win out of them. And then they, then they ultimately lose later on to Pittsburgh in the playoffs. What happens, what happens going forward? Let's take a peek. So let's imagine they go to the playoffs. They don't go to the Super Bowl. They don't go to Super Bowl 31. Brad Farb gets to celebrate at someone else's expense. What do we think? Scott, I'll start with you. What do you think happens in 1997? I think, you know, and then we're assuming that, that Parcels is, is draft in that team, right? He's got on the draft. So I think he probably has a strong draft. And I think what he built upon with the people already he brought to the team, I think again, I think, I mean, they were 10 and six and 97, 10 and six and 97 with Carol. I mean, I think you're talking another deep playoff run, you know, I, I think, and just, I just want to backtrack for one second to what Dave was saying. I think even without Glenn, I think Parcels was a defensive minded coach. So I think minus Glenn, he would have made up for that somehow defensively. So I think by him drafting and him having another year with the talent, he's already a someone, I think they could have had a more successful season. I mean, you know, maybe give them, is he worth another two or three wins, you know, with another good draft, you know, and building the defense, you know, over Carol. I mean, I'd say at least two, maybe three, right? And then I'd take a deeper playoff run because I think he would have continued to keep building that defense, you know, and it would have become a monster. So they would have maybe had a monstrous defense and a more New York Giants escapants, we'll say, let's take a look. All right. Immediately. This is kind of fun. Let's look at the. I'm going to go. So let's say the Patriots who ultimately picked 29th and took Pete Carroll's first pick with Bobby Greer, I believe, was the infamous Chris Canty, Chris Canty, corner back Chris Canty out of Kansas State, who is the owner of one of my favorite lines of all time when he was released from the Patriots, I don't know if you guys remember, he was like asleep in his car and he was in, he had an adult beverage in his hand, if you will, and whoever wrote this. I'm not sure who it was if it was. Kefardo, Shaughnessy, or somebody, this is one of the great lines of all time. The New England Patriots, this is for memory, the New England Patriots released corner back Chris Canty today, who was found asleep in his car with a beer can comma, much like every receiver he tried to cover in the NFL wide open. Wow. Yeah. That's a stick burnover. That's to be a burn right there. All right. So they don't pick 29th in 1997. Maybe they pick in the mid 20s. I'm going to read you. I haven't, I'm curious who we think may have been selected here. So we'll start with pick 20 by the Minnesota Vikings. That was Dwayne Rudd, linebacker out of Alabama. The Jags at 21 took Ronaldo when D tackle out of Notre Dame. Cowboys went with David LaFloor, tight end out of LSU. The Bills took soon to be two time Super Bowl champion running back Antoine Smith. Curtis Martin, by the way, still with the Patriots in 1997, because he stays with Parcells. Parcells doesn't go to the Jets that year. So the Jets remain in turmoil. 24 Chad Scott corner back out of Maryland, 25 Eagles, John Harris, D.E., Virginia, 49ers took Jim Druckenmiller. Oh my God. What a name. And let's hope the exact unbelievable name and let's hope that the Patriots, maybe if they were picking somewhere between 24 and 28, let's hope at 27th overall, they don't take Carolina Panthers wide receiver Ray Carrouth. Yeah. That would have been. And wasn't you a drunken Miller in his car, right? Well played. All right. So I mean, this Parsa, like now we look to 97, like how many more years do we think? So if he ends up having another defensive minded draft and getting, you know, journeyman wide receivers, maybe Troy, maybe Troy Brown becomes a grander focal point of the offense as well. Maybe there's, you know, the legend of Ben Coates potentially grows further. Maybe, you know, Dave, you posited that maybe we'll, the first thing is William McGinnis. If, if Parsa sticks around another, you know, let's say one to four years, let's say he's there as long as Carol was and then ultimately Belichick were to take over because we know Parsa was mercurial and, you know, fecal and capricious and always did what he wanted to do. You know, we're just like the big smug smile, like, let them run the business they want. I'm out. Okay. God, it's said that just that that's one of the many reasons why he's still not in the Pat's Hall of Fame, whether it's bad blood with him in craft or not. But let's say he sticks around three more years. Maybe he does make it to a Super Bowl. You say that McGinnis becomes a Hall of Famer. Terry Glenn obviously never plays for the Patriots. Who else? Who else benefits intensely from the Bill Para sells here or player wise? Well, you mentioned Coats. I mean, he was a beast, right? And that was Ledso's Binky. So you know, Bledso's playing longer and that's going to be, you know, that's going to be very successful between the two of them. You know, Curtis Martin never leaves, right? So Curtis Martin Hall of Fame, running back, he left as soon as ourselves took the job with the Jets. So he stays here. He wanted to play with Bill. Well, that's a he's definitely at least he's got a red jacket to add to his Hall of Fame resume as well, right? And, you know, you have a back like that, make you don't have to necessarily have top end receivers. You know, they make some of those other guys better, right, because so was did Robert Edwards, was he the lead back in 97? Yeah, I believe so, yeah, because that was, I think Carol picked him for those, I believe. Yeah. I think Robert Edwards, his pro career, yeah, he came in to, yep, University of Georgia and on his career in the same time. Oh, God. I mean, every time Tully Band to Kane run, yeah, chosen by the New England Patriots in the first round of the 1998 draft. So then 1997 they didn't have so he was 98 that he, that he was the, why that he was RB one for the Patriots. So they took they dipped early in on him. Who the hell was the, geez, talk about all these little things. Who was, who was RB one for the Patriots in 1997? That's a great one. I think I actually stump the guys that I think know more about the Patriots than anyone. What's that? Give me that Marion, butts time was that butts time may have been not booty, not booty butts. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking down here, boy, the NFL doesn't have this laid out very well at all. Who the hell is that? Oh, that's a great one. So 97 was still Martin with Keith, 10 and six. Oh, Curtis Martin did play one more year. Okay. And then he left after 97. That's what it was. Okay. I was going to say because I didn't think that that was butts time. No, Curtis Martin was still the running back. He left after the 97 season and a night because in 97 Parcells, remember there was the whole slap and tickle with, oh, I'm not going to. Yep. Thank you very much. Mary Beth Bowlin. Thank you. Appreciate you guys chime in in Curtis Martin. It was indeed. Yeah. Yeah, because the past went 10 and six, you still had Glenn, you had coach, you had Curtis Martin, they win one playoff game the first year with Pete Carroll. It's once Curtis Martin leaves on that six year, $36 million deal with the poison pill in it, preventing the Patriots from matching the offer. That really began the decline. Like the Pete Carroll offense becomes much more one dimensional that year. Blood so gets hurt. We get the famous Zolack against the Jags game and the playoffs as well. Whereas the Jets who tried to do, remember they tried to do that whole thing where they named, they tried to do that whole thing where they named Belichick like interim or temporary placeholder coach and wasn't, wasn't Parcells like a, was he a special advisor at first? Yeah. They bumped him up to the office to kind of create all the stuff and that's when Belichick wrote the, wrote the message on the napkin. Right. And so then Belichick is the defensive coordinator for a while for the Jets. So the Patriots immediately when Parcells leaves have a massive brain drain all over the team and the Jets struggle in 1997, but it's in 1998, Curtis Martin comes over and then, you know, Parcells is second year there in the AFC Championship and the Patriots are already on the downturn. So we saw what a massive swing that was. So Parcells, let's say, like we said, he sticks around for three full seasons. Are there any other players? We said Coats, Curtis Martin, William McGinnis. I mean, tie law is going to continue to just be a monster on the outside. Maybe he, maybe, I mean, he's already a Hall of Famer and he's a Patriots legend. Could he have benefited anymore? Does anyone else, does Teddy Bruski flourish? Anyone on the line? Are there any other players we could have seen come to the Patriots that would have led to some other growing Foxboro legends that you guys could think of? Well, they already had that happen between like Bobby Hamilton and AP Anthony Pleasant and Otis Smith and some of these guys, they were all Parcells disciples that came over anyway. Yep. Yeah. And some of them stuck around, obviously. And those are some of the guys who in 2001, Belichick brought a bunch of those guys back around 2000 or 2001, especially, right? And so those are some of the unsung heroes of Super Bowl 36 and that incredible, you know, everyone always thinks, oh, 2001 is all because of Tom Brady, like. It really wasn't. No. That was a offensive championship. Yeah. Well, not only that, but that was a team that, and I think we talked about this on one of our podcasts, it was a team that was kind of brought together by, I think, what was a very balanced mix of veterans and then some of the younger players that were coming up. I mean, we talked about that, like Otis Smith, all those guys. So I think that's, that was the talent of that team, the one that's suitable, but just what I have a question. I'm going to, I have a question. I want to throw it off as we're talking about this whole, what if, what if we know Kraft had issues with Belichick, but he gave him more of a free reign, right? So for quite a long time, because that no matter how much Belichick spent on those groceries, and he was, he was thrifty more often than not, the results spoke for themselves, for sure. So what if you flipped Belichick with Paselles, if Kraft was the owner, he was with Belichick. If he was that way with Paselles, would that have led to a longer tenure and continue success? So your question is, if Kraft was more like he was with Paselles, rather he, if he was more like how he was with Belichick with Paselles, would that have led to more success? Yeah, because in the beginning, he, he wanted control of everything and he kind of, you know, he kind of realized the mistakes after. So what would have been a totally different scenario if Paselles had the craft that Belichick had? I think so, and I think the only, the only downside I can think to all of that, yes, they would have definitely had more success. I think they would have made it ultimately back to at least one Super Bowl. If Paselles, let's say he stays three, maybe four seasons. Do we think that there's an immediate succession plan right afterwards? So what if Bill Paselles does stay and he stays three, four seasons? Yes, they do have more success. Robert Kraft does learn to stay hands off and he finds his successor, who he didn't go with in 1997, because he thought it was too soon, brings in Pete Carroll, writes that wrong, trades for Paselles and gives up draft equity that he should have given up 21st round draft picks, Belichick was worth all of it. Do we think Belichick takes over in the same year 2000? Is it 2001, perhaps, that he takes over and starts his run? Yeah. Well, it would make sense because his longest tenure with any team was eight years, Paselles, and the average of his four teams is 4.75 years. So he's not a, you know, his entire Hall of Fame coaching career is five years shorter than Belichick's tenure in New England. So it was a good one. Yeah. Yeah. No way. So how long did he coach the Giants for? Eight years? Eight years. And then he went forward the pass. Yeah. And then he was four with the Cowboys. And forward the Jets? I think it was five with the Jets. Yeah. I know it's right now. But '97, '98, and then '19, 2000, wow. So he, his, okay, so like five with the Jets. Yeah. So that leaves him almost a half dozen years short of how long Belichick coached because Belichick was four with the Browns and 23 with the Pat, 24 with the Pat's. God, he was here. Yeah. Damn. Wow. So, Bill Parcells, coach, all that, people think of him as this legacy figure that must have been a head coach for like 30 straight seasons in the NFL. Turns out he actually, he even had a few, he is off in there. So he wasn't straight through, you know, I mean, yeah. So it was eight with the Giants, four with the Pat's, three with the Jets and four with the Cowboys. But there was a break there before he took the Cowboys job too. That's right. And that, that Cowboys team, so when he goes to the Cowboys, you wonder where, so where does Parcells go? That's, all right. Here, here's another, I love all the different wrinkles and like timeline iterations that come about when you just start to shake the foundation with one little what if. Well, let's say Parcells stays, three more seasons, has this goes up 2000, Belichick likely takes over for the Patriots then. Maybe things play out similarly, or maybe not, because maybe they don't draft Tom Brady at that point. And so maybe the Patriots don't end up having the double dynastic run. So the best thing that happened, even though at the time it was highly dysfunctional and traumatizing for a lot of Pat's fans, was Parcells leaving when he did. Where do we think, what happens to Parcells coaching career? Let's say he just gets tired or just like, eh, I'm ready to move on. What is, what becomes a Parcells after he leaves the Patriots should he stick around two or three more seasons at the end of the nineties? I think if he stayed around another two to three years and he had the, he had the success that we think he would, I mean, I, I think he could have probably have coached as long as he wanted to coach. He would have had a, he would have had a track record of good drafting, right? Pulling the team, taking it out from, you know, bringing it to respectability. So I think it might have actually worked more in his favor because one of the criticisms about Parcells is he was year to year and he made decisions for a past cell. So I think if he had a longer tenure in New England and did bring them to respectability and did draft well, I think maybe the perception of him would have been changed around the NFL and maybe by owners, I mean, they all knew he was successful. But I think anybody that hired Parcells knew, and I think Dave made the point, it was going to be a short term fix. He'd be around for two or three years, four years, and then that would be it. So maybe if he stayed here for a long period of time, that would have built his reputation for building a winner and then making decisions that are good for the organization. And that's one of the things that crafts in, you know, he just, he makes decisions for the bill, Parcells, not necessarily for the long term. And Parcells is obviously a Patriots Hall of Famer at that point. Maybe he does only go to one other team and maybe he does end up with a better reputation as well. Dave, on untold Patriots stories, have you guys ever had anyone on the podcast that has ever told you any great Parcells stories or brought up some insight as to what it was like to play for him or be around the Patriots during that time? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Well, the good friends of our show, Maurice Hearst, him and Parcells really got along well, and they had some real fun stories. That's like Obi-Wan. I have not heard the name Maurice Hearst in many movies. Wow. Maurice Hearst. Way to. Yep. So, you know, we've got, you know, and we've had guys like Skanekia and Romeo on and such to talk about that and, you know, sort of comparing contrast to the two coaches. Same thing with Chad Eaton, you know, he played, he played for those guys and I love the Chad Eaton episodes. That guy is. And if you guys, I highly recommend everyone subscribe to untold Patriots stories because they connect. Didn't you guys just talk to John Smith most recently? Yeah. Yeah. All about the snowplow game, everything you wanted to know, all the mysteries revealed, you know, just because things are so good now in hindsight with all the Super Bowls and all the winning, it makes all the just dankest, most miserable, shitty times all the 500 yards of Shawshank sludge that we used to wade through every season is now so much more enjoyable in hindsight because of how good we had it for so long. And again, we probably don't have it the exact same, like, there's just no way the timeline couldn't have been altered even slightly like it just doesn't play out the same way as it does from 2000 to 2020 unless Parcells does what he does. So actually in hindsight, and of course, it's great to hear from all those guys as well. Like you say, Mario Sures chatting, Romeo Dante, who probably all love the way Parcells coached and his, like you said, who's it who day was it you who said the first thing you think of it with Parcells is Smash Mouth, fundamental ball 101 God, I hope that's what Gerard Mayo brings back even in the slightest degree of the season, but I know, but you know, as heart and I like to joke like, well, it's going to be super collaborative and there's no more silos. So everyone just go help yourself to the giant pile of grain that's outside stadium because sometimes silos are a good thing. Wait, are you our heart thunder? Yeah, there's actually you have to take a lap now. We have a rule. You can't say it. You can't say young thunder on the podcast. That's a dollar in the young thunder jar. If you guys noticed that ever since that introductory press conference, that phrase that nickname has not been uttered once since you think somebody might have said don't know more. Yeah, yeah, Stacy. Stacy probably came in. Hi, rod. Yeah, we noticed that our our sensitive our sensitivity readings went off and that actually got the lowest rating of anything anyone ever said. So if we could just not repeat that again, that'd be great. Thanks. Yeah, that was that was brutal. So all right. All right, so that you guys have had a chance to talk to some of them and good story. You've gotten the sense on your podcast that there's like a profound appreciation at least in terms of like a football guy and like as a coach and leader of men for Parcels. Absolutely. Very well respected. You know, and he had his guys and he would take care of his guys. You know, and I think that that built the loyalty with him because he did have a lot of plans that he would take from team to team wherever he went. But yeah, definitely well respected, a lot of good things to say. And you know, I think when you when people talk about Belichick, they're kind of they don't want to give up information because, you know, I guess, I don't know, Dave, if you agree with me on this, but it's a almost a different kind of loyalty or respect with Parcels. I think it's fear might be in there a little bit too. I don't know that they were necessarily afraid of Bill Parcels. And, you know, like Dante Skanakya wouldn't admit that Bill Belichick has a sense of humor. We all know he does. And we know that he's seen it, but he wouldn't he wouldn't even give a hint hint of it. We refer it other folks, you know, tell us that he, you know, to the guys he likes and behind the scenes. And you know, he's actually quite a funny guy. I love when I love when the listeners start throwing in their own what ifs as well, because the timeline is totally shook at this point. Here's a good one. Patrick McNally watching live on Facebook right now. Would Parcels have put Drew back in in 2001? Let's say Parcels were still coach and they had taken the players they had. I'm not even sure if we would have Brady. But do we think Parcels would have put Drew back in? And would we have never learned about Brady? That's actually a really good question. That's a fun one. I think that's the biggest guy. I think with Parcels, that's a legitimate. I think that could have went either way, because I think I think Parcels is more of the the old school. I think I don't think Brady would have got the job as quickly as he did with Belichick with Parcels. Because I think he would have felt the loyalty to Drew, especially drafting him too. You got to throw that in the equation. Yeah, right. That's totally his guy. All right. This is a great one. This this becomes the ultimate like the ultimate variant on what if Kenny Tasney also watching live right now on Facebook? Here's a good one. Does Tony Romo ever become a starter if Parcels doesn't go to Dallas? Parcels goes to Dallas, brings in Bledsoe. Bledsoe gets hurt and boom, Romo comes in. So maybe, who knows, like, you know, you know, Romo owes his career in a lot of ways to Bledsoe and Parcels in that capacity as well. But does he ever, but if Parcels doesn't go to Dallas because he stays longer with the Patriots and ends up somewhere else, do we ever even see Jim? Jim? Jim? I don't know. That's a good one. See, my question on this is, do we ever really see the real Bill Belichick? If he's still under that, that whole time as an assistant coach, does he then become Josh McDaniel's, you know, bopping around, getting a job where he can't hear and then running back to Parcels if Parcels is still coaching. And then more importantly than that, does Bill ever get a 24 year old girlfriend if he's not this successful? Is the Bellach? See, I think I ultimately think that the way Belichick treated his relationships, much like the same way Parcels treated his relationships with teams probably would have played out, but it would have, you know, who knows if he would have been with Linda and, you know, I try to, I try not to get too deep into the weeds on that one because that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable. I don't usually like talking about people. Date somewhat a third of their. It's a whole nother podcast, right? My God. I mean, she's dating someone that's not as old as Nikhil Harry for Christ. All right, I'll, I'll, I'll go cut that off and say what about it all lives? It's all good by me. He's not here anymore. So we're actually allowed to jest about that, although people still get too up in their Foxborough fields about that. All right. So in summation, as we look to wrap up a very fun edition here of six rings on what if Wednesday, what if Bill Parcels never left the Patriots? So we think that the Patriots ultimately still, all right, I'll end, I'll end with this. Let's just go around the room. And if anyone who's watching live right now has an answer to this, please feel free to chip in as well. How many Super Bowls, because a bunch of people that have been listening thus far have commented that the Patriots probably would not have six Super Bowls now because the timeline would have been altered so much. How many Super Bowls do we think the New England Patriots would have today had Bill Parcels stayed for another two, three, possibly four seasons with the pets? In four seasons, I'm going to say one potentially two. No, just from from from from from 1997 to now, because because the Belichick error would have been barrierably been different. We don't know if he would have gotten Tom Brady if he would have punted on blood. So taking a different quarterback. Hell, for all we know, Tony Ratae would have been. All right, here's our first answer. viewer Pat McNally drew would have gotten to his Parcels would have kept him in. Okay, so he's got two. What do you guys say? I would comfortably say, I definitely don't think six would have been attainable because again, you're going to take the whole, the whole Brady factor out. And I would, I would say if you if you look at the Super Bowls, maybe half of them in the beginning, were more structured towards defense and all that kind of stuff, whereas the last three were more on Brady shoulders, right? So I think if you take away the one in Green Bay, because if he didn't feel the way he did and didn't leave, he would have put more attention into that Super Bowl. So I would give him that one. So there's one. Okay. And I would say two more. I would say, I would say he would have been good for at least half of what they achieved with Brady. So I would take three. Scott Duquette watching live right now. What up, Scott? I would say three overall, if the D is what it was from 01 to 04. All right. So we'll give, I kind of like that, Scott, I'll give two to Parcels. So he has, he got two with the Giants. He was on his way. Like you said earlier, Dave, with the Brackens pick to building a giant now, there was obviously no LT, but you did have some like, he had some studs on that defense law, Bruski and McGinnish, whatever, Brackens, maybe somebody else as well. So let's say they win. Parcels wins two wins that second one, maybe in 99. They win 90 in 97. And with you on that one, Scott, they become, he's more focused. It's a better team effort. They upset Farr, they were right for the upsetting in that game too. As you know, even though the final score says 35, 21, like it was a closer game than the final score indicated. So two for Parcels, and then maybe one for Belichick. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense to me. That's, that's what I was alluding to before. I agree with that. They're not going to get six unfortunately. And you know, it's hard to say, drew blood. So I love them now, but back then, we're forgetting the ball padding, the happy feet, the hook shot in the AFC Championship game. You know, it's a session for the first puzzle time. And another one of the great lines, this one from Shaughnessy. Bled so what do you say about Bled so after Parcels left struggling in the ball padding and the happy feet during the Carol era. Bled so who commands the pocket like a giraffe on stilts. That's a good one. Yeah. So but I also think that Bill won with Phil Sims and Jeff Hossettler. So he didn't necessarily need a Peyton Manning or Dan Marino to lead his team. So with a defense, because that's what he was mostly about defense, it's Smash ball football, which he had with handed it off to Curtis Martin. They're still gonna wonder if he brings in like by the time 97-90 does he bring in like, is there is there a Hossettler or someone he brings into challenge Bled so in the late 90s as Parcels ends up finishing up his career with the Pats. I wonder who that would have been. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. If there's anybody that's a poster child to the 50 drunken moment. Yeah. Oh, that's that I should get that custom jersey made yesterday. Yeah, that's why you know what IPA stands for in my world, intense Patriot affection, not India pale ale. There you go. There you go. Right. All right. All right. Well, this is a fun one to throw around. If any of you guys are sitting around Fourth of July cookouts having some drinks by the fire pit or just generally looking for something interesting to discuss Patriots wise because we are three weeks out from the start of Pats camp 2024. Maybe you've talked out the wick roast back selling of the Celtics. It's not time to dial in necessarily on the Red Sox yet because you don't want to pot commit emotionally until you see whether or not Breslow and Henry and company commit to their own freaking team. Or maybe you're just like, yeah, I heard the Bruins sign some guys, but I have no idea who the F they are because it's hockey. Here's a free topic for you guys to throw around. Exactly. What if Parcels left? As you see, it gave us 45 minutes of great chatter here on the latest six rings in football things. Once again, I highly recommend that you guys follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcast to the untold Patriot stories podcast. These guys do a better job at treating Patriots alumni, Patriots legacies, Patriots villains, Patriots heroes and beyond with the respect, the dignity and the forum that they deserve as well. So Dave Usher, Scott Prusac, thank you guys, very much going in today for Andy Hart. Any other plugs or information you guys want to squeeze in before we all wish everyone a happy birthday America? No, have a great 4th of July and give our podcast a listen. Listen, it's a little different, but it's a lot of great information, a lot of great guests, and a lot of great stories. So give it a listen. All right. Stuff you haven't, you wouldn't have heard unless you listen to our podcast. Exactly. How would you know exactly what the hell went on with John Smith and everything? Just the snowplow game alone. Subscribe, tell you what, go for the snowplow game, go back for the chat, eat and wonder how the hell that animal was able to stay on the football field as long as they plop with it. I promise you guys will be hooked. And I like the fact that you say you do it a little bit differently because you guys are, it's a storytellers podcast. So there's not a lot of quick takes and, you know, news flashes and whiz bang and sound effects. It's just a couple of people that are hooking into the people behind the stories here in Patriots Nation over all these decades. And I appreciate the way you guys go about business. So thanks again, guys, and make sure you guys, so follow and subscribe untold Patriots stories. All right, we'll be back at the end of the week. I'm going to be filling in for the Greg Hill show Thursday and Friday with Chris Chime. Chime and I are going to break down one of those mornings that Drake may overunters and props that just came out. What we think is going to happen with the new QB one of the NEP and just exactly when we think he's going to get in there. So we'll have a new six rings at the end of the week. But until then, have a great holiday, everybody. America, you're only 248 years old. You may need a little work, but I think you look pretty damn good as far as I'm concerned. Thank you for listening to the latest edition of six rings and football things. Our thanks to Scott and Dave from Untold Patriots stories. We'll talk to you soon. Have a good day. God bless. And as always, go Pats. All star closer. Kenley Janssen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? This boy isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford. And every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago. And it's now the most prolific national daily baseball pod. There is another fact. So jump aboard the BIB Express. Follow and listen to baseball as I'm boring, presented by Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Nick "Fitzy" Stevens is joined by two Pats savants, Dave Usher and Scott Prusak, the hosts of the Untold Patriots Stories podcast, for another "What If Wednesday" episode. Today, we imagine a world where Bill Parcells was able to shop for groceries and stay around old Foxboro Stadium a while longer.
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