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And we are here today on the latest and always greatest edition of six rings and football things brought to you by W E E I Odyssey and 2400 sports to give you a far too early preview. Plus talk about some of the rookies of intrigue that have caught our eye that we can't wait to see put on the pads and get down to business in just a couple of weeks plus some other NFL news notes and nuggets. But today it is not just the usual Fitzy and Hart odd couple of football dynamics. The great John Lions live from the Lions den joins us today as Andy Hart is on a well deserved vacation. John congratulations and welcome to your first six rings in football. Hey Fitzy, I am excited to be here. I've been waiting for like a year to be on six rings. So I'm very excited to finally be here and despite it being July 1st, I feel like we have a lot that we can get into today. Yeah, I we we shown the Pat symbol in the sky and you of course like the sportsman that you are answered the call immediately. And you know, well, some people may say, you know, this is really baseball time, obviously the NBA. Well, some may also say even though the NBA season just ended with your Celtics being the 18 time champions that they are with another title in Boston, you know, that it's the NBA free agency running wild and you know, the Red Sox are kind of, you know, they're wild card adjacent as I would like to say. And so people may be thinking like, I'm not really into football just yet because this is the month where training camps kick in. You've got rookies reporting in two and a half weeks. People are squeezing, you know, this 4th of July week, probably the last drops out of their early summer vacation. And then they got to start getting in football shape and reporting for business. For what I see, not just as obviously a pivotal season to use one of the most overused adjectives in sports broadcasting, but I'll also go with another P word, a polarizing season, because I don't think I can find any five people that I can put in a room on a podcast, et cetera, and have them all share the same opinion as to what kind of season this is going to be. So before we get into any of our specifics today on the pod talking Patriots, from a, from a, from a, a few weeks out, what kind of season do you think we are headed towards this year, John? Yeah. And I would say, Fitzy, that this past off season has probably been the most important off season of maybe the last 25 years, at least the last 10. And the reason I say that is, okay, 25 years ago, they hire Bill Belichick, but nobody knew at the time he was going to be the greatest coach of all time. They draft Tom Brady. Well, nobody knew he was going to be the greatest quarterback of all time. And then once they had those guys, they were able to get things rolling. They start winning Super Bowls. And they, of course, had important off seasons along the way. 2003 was a huge off season. 07 2014, those even 2018 as well. Like those were big. Yeah, all those. Exactly. Right. 2010, right. They bring in McCordy and Gronk in the same off season. So those were huge off seasons. The reason I say this one is on that level, and perhaps more important is because even when Brady left after 2019, you still had Belichick, you still have McDaniels and that coaching infrastructure on offense. You still have plenty of guys that had won Super Bowls here in New England. Now you look at this team, you have a rookie head coach who, yes, won a Super Bowl here, but as a player, rookie head coach, you have a rookie quarterback who may or may not play this year, but he's what you're investing the future of your franchise in. And you look around that locker room, Fitzy, not a lot of guys that have won Super Bowls here. I mean, Dietrich Wise, Jonathan Jones, David Andrews, right? It's a small number of guys that have won Super Bowls. So there, to me, in essence, they're not just rebuilding, hey, the quarterback position or the head coach, they need to really rebuild the championship foundation that they had here for 25 years, right? As long as you had Brady and Belichick, or at least one, that foundation was there. Now, there's elements of it, but that foundation isn't really there anymore. And they got to rebuild that. And I think they started this off season, right? New head coach, new quarterback, some other additions, but this training camp coming up is the next major step in that. And I think this season is as well. So for me, I look at this season as they need to be better than they were last year, but you also need to see progress with the young players on this team and in critical situations, right? How many games Fitzy over the last two years did this team lose in critical situations? They just made the wrong play at the wrong time, which is the opposite, by the way, of what we were used to for the first 22 years, or whatever it was of Belichick's reign. So they need to really target those ears, making the right play at the right time, which I know sounds simple, but it's not progress among so many young players that they have there. I mean, there's a lot of guys on this team, Fitzy, first three years of their NFL careers, or first four years of their NFL careers. That's really what I want to see this season. I think again, if they get it right this year, and I'm not telling you, they're going to be in the division around the playoffs, but if they get it right and we see those things, then they can go into next year feeling really good about where they're at, but if they don't get it right, then we're going to sit here next July and have a conversation about, we don't know if this is really heading in the right direction. So I think it's been a massive off season from a franchise standpoint, and I think it'll be a massive training gap and a massive season, regardless of the results, I think it's going to be massive. Massive would be one of the, an adjective, a descriptive that I would probably go for as well, significant, important, because you are laying a foundational cultural reboot, basically, to this team. They're going to be going about everything differently as much as you may want to try to lean on those few veterans left with a championship Super Bowl pedigree. Like you mentioned Andrews, Wise Jones, Matthew Slater sticking around as the sidekick and the go-to guy, the advisor, if you will, the shields for Gerard Mayo, and of course, Gerard Mayo, he himself, as you mentioned, a Super Bowl champion as well, but they're going about everything differently now. We've heard time and again, new culture, doing things differently, tearing down silos, collaborative effort. That's all, that's all great. This, this may all sound like some terrific 21st century modern day corporate descriptions as to how we go about doing business in an involved cooperative shared environment, but if the product on the field is not tough, if it's not disciplined, if it's not just plain talented and well orchestrated, this could be a mess. I happen to think as well, and I'm so glad you pointed out over those last couple of years, once they lost the Brady's and the Edelman's and the Bronx and the guys who were so good in winning time. Basically, everybody involved in the overtime drive in the 2019 AFC Championship game against Kansas City, still one of the greatest games, I'd say in Patriots, if not NFL history ever played. Once all those guys who knew how to get it done in winning time left, there really wasn't anyone that could punch the ticket or, you know, finish the job for them as well. Just leave and look to last season. Last year, game one, Keishan Booty doesn't get his one foot down, so they can't go on a game winning drive and possibly upset the Eagles. Week one, week two, there's the lateral and Cole Strange gets stopped randomly like half a yard, just little stupid things, little inadequacies that you're now looking to find players who can take that next step, who find ways to get it done in the clutch. And that's going to start with your coaching staff of Mayo and Covington and Van Pelt and everyone. And these are all guys, even though they have varying degrees of experience in the NFL, we don't know what they're all going to be like when the spotlight is showing on them on one of the one of the most significant popular, previously respected and now still curious teams in the NFL. Yeah. And you brought up the one possession thing and this is going to sound crazy to just hear me out. They won four games last year, scoreboard wise, they weren't that far from winning nine. But what the problem is, the problem is, is scoreboard wise, they weren't far away. But when you look at them and the plays they made in key situations, they felt kind of far away. Like you look at, you mentioned Cae Sean Booty in week one. There were two times in the second half. He didn't get his feet down in bounds, including on that last drive, right? The Miami game, you mentioned the Cole Strange lateral. How about the interception, Mac Jones, through in the end zone when Devontay Parker just got shoved out of bounds on a row, probably the worst single play of the entire Patriot season. Why Mac Jones? I would say I would argue that maybe the single worst play of the entire Patriot season was the bad boys in Germany. Yeah, in Germany. Yeah, but well, that one too. But that's another one, right? Like Germany, you lose a game 10, six and you throw an interception in the end zone. How about the Chargers game? You lost that game six nothing. Tyquan Thornton had what could have been a 45 50 yard touchdown pass, go through both of his hands in that game, you lose six nothing. The Washington, the commander's game, Jalen Raker drops a 60 year bomb that hits him in the hands. And then Juju bump set spikes a pass that Mac Jones sidearmed to him. That was a perfect pass on a possible game winning drive. Like exactly what gets into this whole idea, John. Yeah, like, okay, the whole entire world, four and a half wins is the Vegas over under total. The Pats are going to suck. ESPN says they're the clubhouse leader for the first overall pick in 2025. And I know we're not doing a what if Wednesday pod, this is just sort of a catch up and camp prepped on July 1st. But what if a lot of those little things that went the wrong way last year, like Bill Barnwell usually does great columns on like win regressions and teams that are due for some, you know, shitty games to come and also that maybe should have the coin flip for them this season. What if the Patriots don't make those mistakes this year and all of a sudden are competent and competitive and what would, you know, they turn that proverbial football frown upside down and actually give us reason to be inspired this season. And I think that's one of the issues though, right? So, and we can even like look at the Buffalo game, the second one, Buffalo game that they lose what 26 21 and they had four turnovers in the first 20 minutes of the game. Like that's something that you don't, that's not going to happen to me. I was home, I do the six rings post game show at home with a, with a case of COVID, I almost, I completely forgot that game, but because the season was so long since over, but yeah, that was another game. But yeah, and the taking, but here's the issue, right? So like scoreboard wise, we can sit here and look and say they're really close. And I do think they're a better team than four wins, right? Last year, however, like, Keshan booty doesn't get his feet in bounce. Okay, do they have a lot of guys now that you're still confident are going to make the right play in that situation? And I'm not saying they're not going to get their feet in bounce, but, or those four turnovers in the first 20 minutes against Buffalo. Now, I don't think they'll turn the ball over four times in 20 minutes again this year, but do we have enough confidence that they'll limit turnovers enough to win a game like that, right? Or the Devontay Parker pass going through his hands against the Raiders. Well, do they have a receiver right now that we really feel like is going to go and win that battle and catch that ball? Now, I mean, we might say, Hey, Parker's not here. So the ball won't go through his hands. Okay. And maybe we can say they're receiving course better than a year ago, which I think it is, but is it good enough? Right? So you're like, sometimes it's like, we can't always equate being better with being good, right? Because it's not always the same thing. Because I do think they'll be better. Am I going to sit here and tell you they're going to win nine or 10 games? Like, I don't think so. But if they can start making those play, at least some of those plays in situations, do they win seven or eight? And all of a sudden, we feel a lot better about this team than when they won four last year? Because like I said, if they made honest as bad as their quarter, they had the worst quarterback play in the NFL last year, a terrible offense. And yet they were probably what? Four plays away from winning seven or eight games. Like, and so that's the thing. Can they make those key plays this year? Last year, they didn't. In 2022, they didn't enough. Can they do it now? I think that's argue the biggest test for Gerard Mayo and company is how they develop Drake May. But the next biggest test is do they start making those plays again, which for 20 years, the Patriots did such an amazing job of always making those plays. Big reason why they won six Super Bowls, but then they've gotten away from that. So can they get back to making those plays? All right. So if we're trying to state the case for the Patriots, actually, not just beginning a turnaround, but being a competitive football team that doesn't end up a laughing stock and, you know, voted off of Sunday night football, even with Taylor Swift in the house, because people feel badly that nobody wants to watch a team that is constantly, you know, peeing down its own leg like the Patriots were last season, the dysfunction is removed. You have the new coaching, you have the new executive front, you got a whole bunch of new players. I think Elliott Wolf is doing a good job. The jury will be out on the coaching staff for a while. But who are some of the players that they've brought in, be they free agents, rookies, especially, that you're kind of hyper focused on or that you're keying on with camp now beginning exactly three and a half weeks, July 24th, the first training camp day available to the public. Yeah. By the way, side note, we didn't even mention the Giants game that they lost 10-7. Yeah. Real quick. Before we rush into that, Giants game one score game, Raiders game. Watch a game, Washington game called the game Philadelphia. They had like six, seven, like, yeah, they didn't, they only really got blown out against the Cowboys and these saints, saints. Yeah. But still, but still, like, okay. So a few times, and I think the Chiefs were thoroughly better than them in that. But still, we're talking a handful that Bailey's happy interception to start the third quarter. Like if he doesn't make that boneheaded pick, because he's trying to do too much. Again, too many people were trying to do too much. Yeah. It wasn't your job. People were trying to do multiple jobs because of the talent deficit. So we make the case that the Patriots may be better because you'll have a quarterback who's turned over a verse and doesn't actually turn the ball over a lot. Jacobi Versett protects the ball. And also, you may have more talent on the team. So now back to that very question, who are some of those guys you're keying on in advance of camp? So look, the obvious answer is Drake May, right? But I want to give you some different guys, because I think we've been talking about Drake May, like every day since April, okay? I want to give you some different guys. So every day since last November. Yeah, that's true. I think we started draft talk with Mac Jones through that interception in Germany. But one guy I'm watching second-year player though, Christian Gonzalez, because if he comes back healthy and he's healthy all year, I firmly believe last year, this was a playoff level defense. This year, I think it can be a playoff level defense again. And I think he has the potential to be the best player on a great defense. That's how good I think he can be. And you look at their schedule, you're going to be facing T Higgins and DK Metcalf and Debo Samuel. And we'll see if Brandon Iuke still in San Francisco. But you're going to be facing elite receiver almost every week of the year, you're going to be facing elite level. I mean, you'll get how good the receivers are in Miami, right? Like you're going to be facing elite level receivers almost every single week of the year. You're going to need that guy. You're going to need Jonathan Jones as well to play well. So Gonzalez is a guy, especially with his length. That's something that I was really excited about last year was because they didn't have a lot of long corners really at all on the roster. And they hadn't had good ones since Stefan Gilmore left, right? So to have him, that's the first guy I'm watching. Next guy though, I want to see Jalen Polk, right? So they, it felt like they wanted Xavier Laguette. They wanted Keyon Coleman. They get Jalen Polk. And what I find interesting about Jalen Polk, Fitsi, 59% of his snaps he was out wide last year, 41% in the slot. He can move around in formations. And I look at him long term. He's their wide receiver too. That's kind of his ceiling. That's his role. And I know, look, people are going to watch this and say, well, why'd you draft a wide receiver to in the second round, right? You need number one. They do need a number one. And I know that's not sexy, but it's a very valuable thing to have is a legit number two receiver. And it also, because he has the flexibility of he's played outside and he's played in the slot, they can kind of target whoever they want as a wide receiver one in the coming 12 months. Now, maybe it's Brandon Iuke and they trade for him next week. Maybe it's a pure outside guy next off season and we have to wait for it. But they have Higgins in free agency because he's playing our franchise tag this year as well. And it's interesting you bring all this up because I mentioned last week with Andy how high Mina Kimes is on the Patriots defense as well. She also and we need and we definitely need to get her on the podcast to discuss all these elements and then some. But she says top five defense, no doubt if they're healthy as well, because she's expecting significant development. Christian Barmore is a force, a well-compensated force at the middle Keon White, graduated cum laude from the Jabril Pepper School of choosing violence on every play, hopefully a healthy jute on and Gonzalez as well, who I pointed out yesterday in the Sunday seven column at wei.com just turned 22. This kid is still like just just of a football draft age as well. And while we only got three and a quarter games out of him last year, keeping him healthy is going to be extremely important because if he's injury prone for the next couple of seasons as well and can never live up to the potential he showed last year, then we're going to have to go back to 2022 and go. Yeah, but if they had just taken Trent McDuffie and not cold stream, then they would have had a cornerback one who's tough as nails as well and hasn't missed games as well. But I'm a big believer in Gonzo as well. Jonathan Jones said what he's seen out of this kid last year and in practice so far this season leading up to camp that he has top three cornerback material. I mean, just look at that Miami game last year alone. He gave Tyree Kale the business the kind of business that Nigeria said that interception in that game too. Great, great play. And as far as Jalen Polk goes, he was nails when it mattered last year in the postseason for Washington. He was the third option on a team. A guy that's talented as Jalen Polk was the second or third option on a team with McMillan and obviously Roma Dunze who goes in the top 10. Yeah, awesome, awesome wide receiver, great wide receiver trail. One of the better ones probably in recent college football history. He has great hands, high character guy. And like you said, can win on the inside and the outside like the Patriots, people keep saying the Patriots wide receiver core is one of the worst in the league. I might be here to tell you, you know, a few weeks into the season, it's actually one of the strengths of the team and not one of the weaknesses. So I'm with you on that. Yeah, and the receiver core to me, like, here's the issue. I think there's a there's a lot of guys to like like Kendrick Bourne last year before he tore his ACL was on pace for career high and yards, right? He was having a really good season. I love to Mario Douglas. I was a supporter of him when they drafted him two years ago. I think he is the heir to that Troy Brown, Welker Edelman's slot role, and I think he's really good. And I like Polk. Javon Baker, I think is a little shaky. I think he could have some big upside, but he could have some downside. What concerns me, Fitzy, is they don't have anyone in the passing game that I view as an A or A plus level weapon that a defense has to really worry about. And if you go back, when this offense has been good, you can go through 20 years because everybody used to always say, oh, they don't have that elite receiver. Well, for 10 years, they had the best tight end in NFL history and Gronk that everybody had the game plan around. They also did have Randy Moss. I know he didn't win a Super Bowl, but he was an A level weapon. Dion Branch was a Super Bowl MVP. Heck, even in 2001, Troy Brown had 101 catches that year. And David Patton was pretty good. So every single Chris Hogan in 2016, Fitzy led the NFL in yards per reception. Okay, like Chris Hogan underrated Chris, like so, and I'm not telling you Chris Hogan's a star, but that year he played like one and in playoff moments, he played like one. And that's the issue I have right now. Fitzy, you look at this Patriots passing game, like the tight end group Hunter Henry, he's pretty good player. Kendrick Bourne, I think is a good player. I think Jalen Polk can be a good player. I think tomorrow Douglas can be a really good player, but there's nobody right now I look at, whether it's at the tight end position or receiver that a defense really has to 100% game plan to stop, like they did with Rob Gronkowski, or they did with Julian Edelman, or they did with Randy Moss, or they did with Dion Branch or Troy Brown going back to that is my concern. Like, I agree with you. I think the receiver group is going to be better than it was a year ago. I don't think they suck. I think they're solid. They're just missing that one piece and look if the Patriots can go out and get Brandon IU, they'll have that piece, right? Or if Jevon Baker emerges as this star rookie on the outside, then they'll have that piece. I just don't see that piece right now, and that's what concerns me about the group because I agree. Overall, the group's better. There's a lot to like. They're just missing that piece. So a guy like Jevon Baker has, like you said, Boomer bust written all over him because he was either second or third last year in all of college football averaging over 22 yards of reception. He's a legitimate red zone target. Time spent at Alabama and then University of Central Florida. I was so excited when they drafted him because I had read from a bunch of different people whose football acumen I respect that he was the gem of the wide receiving core and the draft, and he has wide receiver one upside. It's a lot to ask a guy who topped out at 53 catches in a season at the University of Central Florida to come in on a football team that has had a deficit in the wide receiver room for years with a journeyman veteran and a rookie quarterback to step in and say, "Okay, guy, give me 75 for 1,150 and nine touchdowns." And maybe he's capable of it. I don't know. To me, you say Jalen Polk is one of the rookies you're most fascinated to see. I cannot wait to see Jevon Baker in action. I think he's going to be the one that either gets frustrated. We're not talking Jack Jones level hothead, but he'll probably play a very emotional brand of football. But I think he'll make a couple of plays in the preseason that lead people to think, "Hey, maybe, just maybe there could be wide receiver one upside. It's going to take time. I understand that." But maybe he's that guy. Who knows? This is a guy that last year at Central Florida averaged 21.9 yards per reception. That's something the Patriots haven't had. And what area, too, that I think him and Polk both bring to this offense that they really haven't had? Good contested catch guys. Last year, Devontay Parker and Hunter Henry each had 10 contested catches, which led the team. Polk and Baker both had more than that. Baker had 16 in a college football season. Polk had more than 10. So I think that's something they're going to be better at. And that's a thing about Baker. He'll make these big contested catches. He'll make wild plays, but he did have six drops last year. However, none of them in the last five games. He got much better about that as the season went on. So if you get the best version of Jevon Baker, he can be a really, really good football player for a long time. But I think with him, and this is why he went 110 overall, there's more uncertainty there than with some of those other guys for a variety of reasons. So if you can get that guy, he's going to be the real deal, I think. But I think with him, you're right. He's going to flash in preseason. He's going to flash in training camp. But do you get that consistent baseline that the truly great players have? I don't know if you're going to get that. That's going to take time to work in. But I agree, I think the potential is 100% there. What's your level of concern? It's certainly an area of intrigue considering that it's been a problem for the last couple of years with no consistent coaching, let alone consistent play. What's your level of intrigue and/or concern with the offensive line? Yeah, it's not light flashing red concern, but I think there are a couple significant areas of concern. And first and foremost is left tackle, right? No matter who's playing quarterback, whether it's per set, whether it's May, whether it's Bailey's happy, you need left tackle to be good if you are going to have an effective offense. And maybe your core four can be a good left tackle. Maybe they'll put Kate and Wallace there. Maybe they'll move Mike on when he was there. I don't know. But I don't look at this roster and see a ready-made solution at left tackle. And I thought Trent Brown was inconsistent last year. But when he was good, he was really good. And at least you had an answer of who was playing the position. Now you don't really have an answer. The other one, what are you going to do with guard? Because I think City So last year was really good down the stretch of the season. He was one of the better rookie guards in the league. I mean, if you're into PFF and all that, he was one of the better rookie guards in the league after struggling early in the year. I thought he was much better. And you have David Andrews at Center, who I think we can agree, really good player, great leader. He's your center. But so was your right guard. Cole Strange, I thought, was really inconsistent last year. He's firmly in bus territory right now. And he's not going to be healthy right away. So is Layden Robinson going to play left guard as a rookie? Is City So going to play left guard? Mike Onwennie, right guard? And they put Kate and Wallace at right tackle. What they figure out at that left guard spot. So it's really the left side of the offensive line, right? Left tackle, left guard. But I think at least with guard, you have some options, right? You can put City So there, you can put Layden Robinson there. Maybe atonia Mafi has improved and you can put him there. But at least where's left tackle. I just, I see options, but I don't see a lot of options that I can really get inspired by. Whereas guard, I see that in another sneaky thing here, Fitzy. Yeah, you got to figure out the future at Center. How much longer is David Andrews going to be here? He's had some injury issues over the past several years. I don't know if they have a guy extension this off season. Right. So but is it Jake Andrews, they're grooming to be center? Is it guy like Layden Robinson? They want to take some snap? But that's just more of a side concern. Really, the right side of the offensive line was so in Onwenno. I like a lot. The left side, I got some questions. Now, hasn't said there are some variables and variations here on the offensive line as well. Like, didn't City So actually take some snaps back during mini camp this spring? Like I think they've, I think they played, the line continues to be tinkered with and in flux. Seems like the line that they want to work out the most or the line that they may be into the most is Chucks decor for at left tackle and City So at left guard, David Andrews at center, Mike Onwenno kicking back into right guard and then kept rookie right tackle from Penn State, Kaden Wallace out at right tackle. And I think Nick leverage another guy to watch in this too, because he had some moments in Tampa where he looked like a awesome guard. And so they bring him in and I don't know if the consistency's always been there with him, but if they can get him rolling and he's good, then I think that helps solve a lot of your problems too. Yeah, but I think the cold, strange era, like we were, we have been provided more updates and insight from Gerard Mayo already than I think we'd get in a whole entire season of Bill Belichick told us you won't see Kendrick born in the spring. They're hoping he's back for the start of the season. His rehab from the torn ACL and the surgery is going very well. Good to hear. But that cold, strange, you won't see till the fall at the earliest, like maybe halfway through the season or longer because that knee got really banged up. In that case, you know, a red shirt year may be good for him, but I just don't know where he's going to fit in along this line. Like, is he a schematic fit? Like does new offensive line coach Scott Peters like his game? Where can they find a fit for him? Does he work in an Alex van Pelt's office? I don't know. But I think by and large, with the mauling potential of a laden Robinson with the size of so and Moffee as well, the new three year deal for Mike on wenu. And we'll see how Caden Wallace plays out right tackle. I don't, I think, I think that the cold, strange experiment is officially over. And that's going to sadly go down as like one of the last bust picks of the Belichick era. Yeah. And I think you made a great point about does cold, strange fit into an Alex van Pelt offense? And it's something that I think it's a good question about a lot of the returning offensive lineman because the look, the Patriots ran outside zone when Belichick was here, but they were primarily a power scheme team. So they draft offensive lineman for power schemes, right, including cold, strange. And you know, instead, like now you're at a zone based scheme. And the one thing I will say is when they drafted cold, strange, that was the Patricia judge offense where they were trying to do his own scheme. So maybe he actually could be a fit there. But I think it's just something to watch. It's even something to watch with David Andrews. So again, great player. I think he's going to be fine. But it's in a big adjustment for the center going from a power base game to his own base scheme, right? It's an adjustment for Mike on when it was so I think that's something that we should really keep our eye on. And I think honestly, I think most of them will be fine. But with some of those guys, especially guys that were drafted specifically for a power scheme, something worth watching in camp. Now, obviously, like we said, we have just a little over three weeks until camp kicks off. There are 13 practices available to the public 11 before the first preseason game. That's August 8th, 7 p.m. at Gillette against the Panthers. They go another week, August 15th, also a Thursday, 7 p.m. against the Eagles. Then they have 10 days off. And then they go on the road for their final preseason game. There'll be no more public practices at that point. And they'll play the Washington commanders. I think what's kind of fun is they're going to get it. They're going to get a sneak peek at a second year quarterback who had a terrible first year. You could see two aspects of Drake May's future as well in this preseason, because you'll see Bryce Young, who had a horrendous rookie season for the Panthers. But now they've given him some weapons. They give him a new coach, an offensive minded coach, Dave Canales, the offensive coordinator last year in Tampa, who had a terrific season with Baker Mayfield. They give him some weapons. They get Xavier Laguette at the end of the first round, someone that Dave Canales even said at the combine. If you're available at the end of the first round, I'm going to take you. And it turns out he wasn't joking. They get him. I think he's going to be a terrific player. They get disgruntled Deontae Johnson out of Pittsburgh. You still have the carcass of Adam Theon as well. Like there may actually be some decent offense for Bryce Young, who supposedly has had a good offseason, has put on some weight. So we'll get a chance to see Drake May could see like, oh, this could be my future where I hit the skids. And then I have to rebuild myself and prove it second year. And then we're going to see Jaden Daniels at the end of the preseason as well, who goes one pick before Drake May. So I think it's going to be fun for Pats fans to get a look at some of the other young developing rookie second year quarterbacks. But how far into the season, where are you with the number of games we likely see Jacobi Brissette play? Because there's a lot of fans that want to see him start week one. There are some fans that don't want to see him play at all this season. They want to see a full red shirt. I'm not in that camp, but I've set the number at six and a half. I'm going to be, I'm going to be a two dates, Fitzy. Okay, two holidays. Halloween Christmas. Those are the two times to look at for Drake May because Halloween will get you about halfway through the season. Now, look, the one caveat I'll add, if Drake May comes out in training camp and he is significantly better than Jacobi Brissette, which I'm pretty sure you wrote about this in the Sunday seven for the site as well. But if he is significantly better than Jacobi Brissette, fine, start him. If they are the same, and obviously if Brissette's a little bit better, but if they are the same, I lean towards starting Brissette for the first half of the season for a couple reasons. One, I still think Drake May will have things to clean up in his own preparation and his own mechanics, but also you're going to have uncertainty on the offensive line. Do you want to start Drake May week one while also starting a quarter four for the first significant time at left tackle in week one? Like, I don't know if that's a good idea. They're in a potentially new left guard as well. Like that's another, and at least one rookie receiver starting for the first time, right? Like, I don't know if you want to put May in that situation against, by the way, Cincinnati week one, Seattle week two, like this, not easy. So Halloween is the first time if they get to Halloween, and look, if they get to Halloween and they're six and two, leave Jacobi Brissette in, but if they get to Halloween and they're 500 below 500 and Brissette's okay and May's caught up fine. Start him then. If May hasn't caught up by then, I go to Christmas. If you're in the playoff hunt in Christmas, Brissette's staying in. But if you're not, then I would start May those last couple weeks of the season. So we can get starting experience preparing as a starter, practicing as a starter, playing as a starter. And by then, look, by Christmas, the Patriots are going to know, hey, this is what we're good at on offense. This is what we're not good at on offense. These are the situations we can put May in. These are the situations we don't want to put May in. And then he can go into the off season, having a couple games under his belt, hopefully a win at least one, but having a couple games under his belt as the starter, you can move on from Brissette and its May's team. So I look at Halloween number one, Christmas number two. And look, if he's not ready at Christmas, fine, sit him. But I look at Halloween. And then if not, Halloween, Christmas. So Halloween would represent, I believe, a week eight. Yeah, it's a week eight. I think their first game after Halloween is their ninth game in like November 6 or 7 or something. The game seven is the London game. Then they come home for I believe a home tilt against the Jets or maybe no bi week after London is ridiculous, by the way. Yeah, I don't, I don't quite separate West Coast trips. Like, yeah, how, how they were not able to get Arizona and San Francisco, that shows you just how little interest the NFL had. Yeah, that's the NFL telling you, we don't care. Yeah, right. It's like in 2001, when bi weeks used to be all year and they had their bi week and week 17, like that's the NFL say we think you stick and we don't care. Yeah, so week one Cincinnati week two home against the Seahawks week three Thursday night affair at the Jets week four Sunday game. Maybe that's the Brady announcing game Patriots at 49ers. Then they're home against the Dolphins, home against the Texans. And you're going to see what a really good second year quarterback looks like in CJ Sprout on the team that I think has high, high hopes and has an AFC championship ticket already punched. Then you're on the road in London against the Jags, home against the Jets October 27 could be it maybe November 3rd. So that would be so you're saying right after Halloween. Yeah, on the road in Tennessee against Will Levis, not a terrible spot. Yeah, Tennessee team is rebuilding, they're not good. I think that would be a decent spot to start him out. And I think Christmas time, it would be a home game either against the charges or the bills depending on which one, which wouldn't be easy either way, but at least it would be a home game in that spot as well. But yeah, I think that Tennessee spot, it's a nice spot for your first start. Yeah, if the team is two and six at that point, they've played a game. I mean, it's not going to be Jacobi Bressette's fault. Maybe that's a good landing spot for Drake May or a great halfway point to put him in and start getting his feet wet. But I'm entirely with you. It doesn't matter how far along like I referenced yesterday and the Sunday seven Chad graphs piece last week in the athletic about Drake May is going to have to play significantly better than Jacobi Bressette in the preseason to win the starting job come week one in Cincinnati. Otherwise, the default starter as Van Pelt and Wolf and Mayo have told us is going to be Bressette until further notice. But to me, it didn't really hinge upon how good the quarterback play is from both of them. It's getting your offensive line settle because if the offensive line is a mess and you're going to throw, you know, at least Jacobi Bressette has kind of been told like you're getting eight million dollars to kind of be the crash test dummy out there while we figure things out. So, you know, best of luck guy and thanks for coming back. For Drake May, you do not want to distress this incredibly valuable asset. You don't want to just hold on to him forever like, you know, like a collectible keepsake or a stock that you you've been married to. But at the same time, you want to get his feet wet, but you also just don't want to destroy the kid because if the line is a mess, all of a sudden he's getting battered, bruised, could get injured. And the next thing you know, he starts doubting and disbelieving himself. That could be the worst case scenario. So settle the line first before you get into the QB debate. Yeah. And I think another piece of this, like if you want to compare it to Mac Jones a few years ago, right in 2021, I think there's a few key differences to remember. A, Mac Jones thoroughly all played Cam Newton and training camp in the preseason. Remember, Newton missed a week with COVID or whatever it was like, Mac Jones was thoroughly better. Mac Jones was a little bit more pro ready than Drake, man. I think Drake May is going to end up being a better player, but Mac was a little more pro ready. And the team around Mac, including that offensive line, was a lot better than the team around Drake May right now. So I think those three variables, that's why I can't compare really what they did with Mac and 21 as a rookie to Drake May. Now, I just think it's a much different situation he's walking into. Yeah, for sure. And lastly, as we look to wrap up a solid edition here of the old six rings pod, John, I made reference yesterday and the Sunday seven to this as well. And it's very, it's a fascinating point. You mentioned Mac Jones. And to me, you know, when the book, the tell-all, the documentary, whatever it is that gives us the full insight as to why the Mac Jones experiment, experience, whatever you want to call it, went south as quickly. And unfortunately, as it did, you know, now he finds himself in Jacksonville. He's the backup. He's back home, at least where he's from. And he's the backup to Trevor Lawrence. And Trevor Lawrence got dinged up last year, because the Jags had line issues as well. But now Trevor Lawrence, who is who has a record of 20 and 30. And Mac Jones has a starting record of 18 and 24. So started eight fewer games, but has only two fewer wins. Each have playoff experience. Trevor Lawrence has a playoff win to his, to his name. He gets a five year, $275 million deal. Two things here. One, what a bitter pill for Mac Jones to have to swallow to be the 15th pick in the 2021 draft. 14 slots behind the first overall pick Trevor Lawrence, who's now the most handsomely paid football player. At least the highest paid starter, he and Joe burrow are eight, averaging $55 million a year. Zero Super Bowl wins between the two of them, which is startling to me. Of the top 10 quarterbacks, by average annual value, only one of them, Patrick Mahomes, who ranks ninth overall. And what a bargain that is, has won a Super Bowl. He's in fact, one three. So that's brutal for Mac Jones, who could have been on the cusp of a multi mega million dollar deal himself, to now be playing out the end of his no fifth year option rookie deal as the backup to the highest paid quarterback in the NFL. And two, when it comes to quarterbacks, do you think the NFL will ever be able to successfully institute what's already being batted around now? This idea of what the NBA does with your max deal, you know, Jalen, Jalen Brown last year could make up to $304 million. He signs it. Jason Tatum's deal will ultimately be similar. You have, you can only make a certain amount of money, whereas right now, if you wanted to pay Patrick Mahomes, $75 million a season, there's nothing stopping you except the overall team cap. Yeah, look, for the Mac Jones points, kind of wild that that 2021 QB draft that everybody thought was going to be great. Those top five QBs, Fitzy Trevor Lawrence is the only one still on his original team. Like it's nuts. And look, Lawrence, I think he's a great, he's a great talent. I think he's going to have a great career. He did win a playoff game. He was saddled with Urban Meyer, that rookie year two, we got to give him some slack for that. Full red shirt. Yeah. But it was still like, I saw the money and I'm like, wow, that feels like too much. But again, if he's good this year, all of a sudden that becomes kind of like market price. So I guess I get it. The max contracting is an interesting idea. I don't think it'll happen for two reasons. Reason one is because there's 53 guys on an NFL roster. So there's like, do you have a max for every position? Do you have a Mac? Like is the max what the franchise tag is? And is the percentage of the I just, I think the cap gymnastics might be a little too much with that amount of guys. But also, I think the only way the players would agree to a salary structure like that is if they got their contracts fully guaranteed. And I just don't know if the owners are ever going to want to do that. So like, I mean, if Drake may sat there and said, okay, you can pay me 30% of the salary cap, but it has to be fully 100% guaranteed. In five years, well, on the surface, 30% of the cap for the owners, maybe that's okay. But to have it fully guaranteed, I don't, I just don't think they want to do that. I mean, and we've seen like they added the 17th regular season game, which I love football and I love the Patriots. I hated the 17th regular season game. I think it slaps player safety in the face. They want to add an 18th regular season game. So what happens with an extra game? Oh, that's common, by the way, Johnny, because you know, now that they just had to pay $5 billion out to direct TV and previous streaming customers, you know, the NFL is going to look to recoup that revenue. And where's it going to come from? Probably probably an another game. And that's the thing is, so if you're going to add a game, you're going to add two games, what's going to happen more often? Injuries. So you're not going to want to guarantee contracts if more guys are going to get hurt. And the whole like, oh, we'll only have two preseason games, we'll have 18 regular season games. Like that's total BS, because is Patrick Mahomes going to play in those third and fourth regular season games? No, but he's going to play in the 17th and 18th regular season game and potentially get hurt, right? So and that's true for everybody. Like you look at everybody, look at the Patriots, as Christian Zalas going to play in the fourth quarter of the third preseason game? No, but he's going to be playing week 18 and he could get hurt then or week 19 if it comes to that. And only one bi-week is crazy. I could go on. It's going to John. It's going to lead to a second bi-week. Yeah. In the NFL, then officially gets to this is this is the owners in Goodell's dream. They'll then get to push all the way to president's day. So the Super Bowl will take place the day before president's day. And then that idea of a national holiday, a day off after the Super Bowl comes to full fruition in the NFL. And I think the people that want to do that, I question, have they ever been in a locker room? Because if you go into these locker rooms and you see what these guys put on the wall and look, I get it, they make a lot of money, but you see what they put on the line for their bodies and their mental health and everything to play football weekend and week out at the NFL level. The coaches too, the amount of hours and stress they're under and you want to add a week, you want to add two weeks to that, I just think it's bad thing for player safety. I think it's a bad thing for the product of the game, but they'll make more money. So they'll do it. So back to my original point though, I think because you add games and injury risk goes up, you're never going to guarantee contracts. So they won't do that NBA salary structure. Yeah, I agree. It's too bad too because it would be. I think a lot of other players would like to see it. I'm sure ownership would like to see it, not the quarterbacks and certainly not their agents as well because it just, I feel like, I don't know if it was Joe Flacco's deal after betting on himself in 2012 or when we sort of like jump the shark per verbally, but I can point to so many quarterbacks in the top 10 or top 20 of salary in the NFL that absolutely have no business making the money like Daniel Jones making $45 million a year. Who did the Giants were bidding against themselves in that one? There was no it was not Jared Goff $170 million guaranteed. Like he's good. I think he's so much more product of the talent that is surrounding him and Ben Johnson as well, which is what made holding on to him so important for the Lions as they try to make a Super Bowl push as well. It's a great point, John. We can keep this discussion going on for a while, but obviously we've got plenty of weeks until training camp begins on the 24th. Got a long season ahead of us and a great job on your first six rings and football things, my friend. You guys can check out John previously of and also contributed to the New England football journal, but of W E E I F M W E E I dot com. And of course, now a member of the six rings in football things family, throw them a follow at the Rio John Lions J O N L Y O N S. Good stuff, my man. Hey, I really appreciate you had me on. I had a lot of fun. And I guess we can officially say camps right around the corner. So good thing. Good time of the year. Exactly. Happy birthday. Well, well, I'll wish America happy birthday any any time I get a chance to, but we'll be back in a couple of days with another what if Wednesday we'll have our friends from the untold Patriots stories podcast on to discuss another great what if from Patriots past everybody have a great 4th of July week happy July training camp is officially around the corner and we'll be here six rings in football things style to get you guys pumped up previewed and analyze the best we can for John for turf and everyone here in the six rings family. You're all pal Nick Fitzy Stevens wishing you a great week. Thanks for listening once again to six rings and football things a presentation of W E E I Odyssey and 2400 sports until we speak next good day. God bless and as always go paths. All start closer. Kelly Janssen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? This boy isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford. 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