Nick and Dan discuss the latest news from New York Giants training camp. The two go through the last two practices, the first of which Nick was in attendance; they talk about the jumbling of the OL with the Greg Van Roten addition, how the offense struggled sans Malik Nabers, and the defensive risers in camp, plus much more.
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Welcome back. It's the big blue banter New York Giants football podcast. I'm Dan Schneier joined as always my co-snick a lot Oh, we got a lot to talk about today to training camp practice is worth of content a lot of big storylines that I want to get into For starters, I will say this Nick had the opportunity to go to a second training camp practice on Monday recording this on Tuesday I do I believe he was not at Tuesday's practice And I know that because shout out uncle Steve who was there and my cousin Ari who was there with his daughter Ryan My cousin Ryan and she got an amazing experience a ton of autographs But I will say this Nick Ari is a little disappointed He was really looking forward to meeting you and he had like a special media pass for the day I believe I don't want to reveal too much how he got that But so he had an opportunity to meet you so a little disappointing But you know you can't make every practice you have work as well outside of just reporting on the Giants So glad to see you got a second practice in though yesterday starting to really get a feel for yourself over there Nick so I'm excited to see how y'all be there Thursday as well. There we go We got another one Thursday coming so that'll be a good pod But this one's gonna have his opposite Nick's observation from Monday and our observations from what we've read on Tuesday So the big talking points. We're gonna start us off with a just bringing them up here So you guys know what's coming on the show one where we're gonna start the Giants offensive line a lot to talk about there I will get into the specifics in a moment to have the offense is looking notably different under Brian Dable's direct direction I think we're gonna see a differently called offense differently design. We're gonna into that three how the first team offense struggled mightily without neighbors for the nodal improvement We've seen from Jalen Hyatt's route running and five Nick McCloud steady drum beat Six the Giants pass rush starting to get would be sacks And we might have some other stuff to add in but those are the six big talking points of Nick Let's start with the offensive line situation John Michael Schmitz same shoulder that bothered him last year We don't know the extent of it, but he's had some miss it He's missed a few practices now Evan Neal seems nowhere close to practicing Which is crazy man because remember that interview he did with Schmelke like in June He was like yeah I'll be good to go for the first day at perini camp Who would have ever thought that Neil was the one who seems nowhere close for six green again practice days in and Daniel Jones It's like not taking a single snap off like they don't even they've given neighbors rest days Lawrence next at rest days Jones coming off the ACL bang bang bang so finally Greg van Rotten was signed after being brought in earlier So that's interesting in Germano Luminor continues to practice as a starting right tackle So a lot to get into with the O line here Nick. Where would you like to start? I'd like to start with the shuffling of the offensive line on Friday when I was at training camp practice John Runyon was asked a question at the podium Would you be open to switching to left guard and he didn't say no, but he's like I don't really want a flip-flop There was a lot of hesitancy there well in today's practice Runyon was moved over to left guard as Greg van Rotten will play right guard next to germano Luminor at right tackle and Runyon might kick over to left guard. That's not solidified Greg van Rotten Brian dable said he could play three different positions I don't think he's going to be a center But with the position versatility between John Runyon and Greg van Rotten Possibly being able to play center. They have done it in the past in terms of runyon I think it was in like preseason. It's not something he's done a ton and with Then Rotten. It's not something. He's done a ton either I do wonder if it says that they will be the backup center options if the Giants are not confident in Morrissey or Schlopman who have kind of been up and down so far through camp I think the van wrote and look this guy's 34 years old He has a lot of a lot of football under his belt a lot of experience Dan I still am glad though that the New York Giants went out and signed him because he was competent and capable last year with Carmen Brasilov so he can come in here and he might be a starting guard and that's still the state of the New York Giants offensive line right now with Evan Neal out and with germanol lumenor playing right tackle We're all excited about this offensive line And I still maintain what I said a little bit earlier I think last week that there is a level of excitement with this offensive line relative to the that we've been Exposed to over the last five years or so Dan But we're still talking about excitement over a 34 year old getting placed into the offensive line room six days in a training camp And that doesn't usually correlate to success. I'm not saying it won't now, but usually it doesn't Yeah, you're not wrong about that. He is coming off career year Which is nice his best year of his career plays with the same guy Carmen Brasil potentially like you'd mentioned though not guaranteed could begin to line up on the right side So he has basically a seamless transition after playing on the right side with lumenor last year back to back years of them Playing together. Those are all positives potentially But I will say this Nick look if you're a general manager and you use the kind of capital the Giants have used in the Offense of line with Evan Neal and John Michael Schmitz you need to get something but at something real out of these guys By year two or year three if you want to reach a ceiling as a football team You can beat around the bush and you can sign guys like thirty four year old or thirty four year old Greg Van Rowan you can sign a lumenor and maybe he'll be pretty solid But he's not gonna be what you expected and there is a big big big big opportunity cost when you use the seventh Overall pick on Evan Neal that opportunity cost could be simply seen as a Garrett Wilson But you can go beyond that because there are other players who were drafted after him that could really help the steam And as far as John Michael Schmitz goes when you want to use 55 on the center That center has to be League average or better by year two for me And that's a non-negotiable and I still think he's going to be but the fact the matter is It's scary to me like all the excitement We talked about in the offensive line improving when those two players those two your best big assets that you made as a GM On the offensive line are both not playing early in camp It's not great and I want to hopefully see JMS his shoulder improves We can get him out there on the second front of that the Neil front We're starting again to high times with Evan Neal man like things are getting real real real sticky fast Yeah situation because Evan Neal sounds nowhere close to practicing now German dream Your main illuminor is a racking up practices as the first team right now Just racking them up. They signed a guy Greg Van Rodden who may play the position that ultimately they originally pinpointed your slotted For your main illuminor right like if you're just looking at two starting guards It's run you're locked in and it was supposed to be aluminum or is the other well Maybe now that's Greg Van Rodden and if that's the case if alumina or is practicing a right tackle Where the hell does that leave Evan Neal in your mind? We've been talking about this last two weeks then. I'm unsure I would like for him to get a chance inside and that would relegate Greg Van Rodden mostly into Being an interior swing offense of Lyman, which is a typical job of a 34 year old to just signed with the team You can't really give up on the asset that is Evan Neal, but the guys got to get healthy first And that's the priority get healthy get on the football field And then we can figure it out from there But going forward right now if he is not healthy He can't be the first up person only option at right tackle And he's not because the Giants went out and signed your main illuminor and then they moved your main illuminor from left guard to right tackle So they at least tackled that and one more thing on John Michael Schmidt Stan I believe Brian Dabel said this morning that he should be back soon. So it's a different It's the same shoulder But a different injury with the shoulder is what Brian Dabel intimate it towards So I'm hoping that we can get him back out there because we want some sort of continuity heading into one with this offensive line And I show I'm hoping that's the same with JMS I feel more confident that JMS especially the decision he plays will be able to be an asset for the Giants in year two for him Versus at this point Evan Neil year three, I'm just gonna be completely honest and that's a sad fact that where we're at with this situation But I will say this on the Greg Van Rotten front Let's keep in mind as as far as we celebrate it and we look at all these oh PFF said he was the seventh best garden NFL last year Yadda yadda do you think there's a do you think that we should also factor in where the NFL is viewing this because this guy hasn't been signed Nobody rushed to sign him. We've run a second third waves. He's unsigned So let's pump the brakes a little bit on the PFF stats and think more about what is the NFL see about the tape because he's waited But I am overall happy that we're adding depth dude And we're adding players who've started and played good football because this is the thing we didn't do in the past We didn't save the money to do it last we didn't have enough cap space after signing all those guys to do it last off season And what happened we had disastrous offensive line last year the Joe judge error They they started to get injuries they had no depth They signed a couple guys who retired on them because nobody wanted to practice for Joe judge And what happened another bad offensive line season that year where at least taking some proactive steps in my mind They may not work, but they're proactive steps stored towards starting to build depth and starting to have some Contingency plans, but I will say this Evan Nick Evan Neal situation It cannot go in this direction for me at least it cannot go in the well German aluminors practicing at right tackle Where does that leave Evan Neal? I guess his career is over for the Giants They have to find a way to salvage this player somewhat whether that's guard or tackle because you just I mean you can not salvage it Right you can look at it on the other side of up some cost fallacy, right? You should not look at assets But when you start to stack up these first round picks that aren't making impact Neil Tony Deonté Deonté banks Then whatever dad forgets there get Baker you always call him banks because they my head is as the real the good corner It's the other one you can't win. You just can't win that way at that point. You're relying on a hero to save you at the name Of the quarterback position sure if you get CJ Shroud it all starts to look better sure if you get burrowed on slots or look better But you can't rely on a hero at the quarter acquisition because very few teams can get that it usually requires the first or second pick Giants may not have that and it you need a good class because you can get a Kenny pick at quarterback class any year the snap your fingers So you can't stack up these first round picks that don't provide value and you can't look at it some cost fallacy I need Evan Neal to work. I need them least try one more time for Evan Neal to work if it bust and he's helped you this year I'm finally willing to say you know what for the better the team. Let's move on But I still have a long-term opinion on this Nick. I'm not looking at us as a Super Bowl contender right now We really shouldn't realistically at this time things can change but at this time So what I'm looking at more so is the long-term health of this roster and understand people are frustrated and they're done with Evan Neal, but I'm not ready to be done with Evan Neal yet And I hope the Giants aren't either I think there could be an interesting happenstance If germanolubinor continues to play solid even in training camp And we're gonna have some joint practices soon and we're gonna have you know Some he drives where he might get some preseason work as well and if he just continues to hold it down The Giants do do they roll the dice on Evan Neal this guy who has been injured through much of his career Or do they just try to put him at one of those guard spots? It's gonna be one of those decisions that common brussello Mike Kafka Joe Shane Brian Dave, they're all gonna have to get together and bounce the ideas off each other there And I understand the mindset of look if these are your best guys, you got to play your best guys No one should be on scholarship, but I'm just not so I'm not arguing against that Let me make that clear to listeners But I am arguing against the idea that it's for sure locked in that Evan Neal is just a no-good rotten player And he's definitely worse than germanolubinor when healthy because that I just don't see as a guarantee Evan you know too much good tape at Bama, and he is too much the frames too good like it's possible look I understand it's possible, but how many healthy games like how many games do you think Neil's actually played fully healthy in the NFL for this point? How many games? Healthy game a fully healthy like three right yeah, I'm really healthy because the first year He was injured early came back and played through the injury and Howard Cross said he could barely move out there Yeah, and this year he got hurt again and played a few games healthy and then got hurt again So I mean, I don't know if it will then maybe that's part of his profile right that he's just one of these guys That's injured a lot playing injured and in that case fine He's a boss and I'm done with him But I would love to see a stretch of eight help fully healthy games of Evan Neal to get my full good evaluation of him And to be clear like some fans are already that he is definitely not better than aluminor Yeah, the same here, man I mean you don't want to lose that asset, but at the same time you need to get your best guys out there and that's It's unclear right now if Evan Neal is one of those best guys which is very unclear All right, Nick suck a little bit about the offense You've gotten now two full glances of the practice how it looks There's a lot of talk and obviously we can see it from the Twitter clips as well And everybody who's done a great job taking video shout out to all the fans who have taken video Great job so far by all of you that this offense looks different under Brian Dable's design He's taken over as likely play call or the offense this year, but in addition to that the reports are that I think this is from either Stapleton or Leonard Sorry if I missed you on the credit the reports are that he's taken a big role in the offensive meetings that he hasn't taken previously So he's not only calling the plays. He's designing the offense He's designing the installs and Justin Pew tweeted that he felt like Brian Dable was one of the best coaches He's ever seen when it came to these types of installs and the and the in these individual offers meetings He said he just knows so many different positions. Well, it makes sense if you look at tables coaching resume He's coached so many different positions. So he gets the game But we've seen a lot more deep shots a lot more verticality to the offense with the under Dable's design than we've seen in the previous past I'm curious if you think or I'm curious maybe what your notes have been just from being at practice on how different Different the offense is gonna look and do you think it could fit the current players? They have on the offense it could certainly fit the current players they have on offense now in today's press conference today is Tuesday Before practice Brian Dable was asked about the complexities of his offense And he said something to the degree of almost every wide receiver We have on the roster right now could play every position meaning they understand it because a priority is you need to be smart To play in this offense and how many times ladies and gentlemen if we heard smart tough and dependable Well, Brian Dable really means it because if you watch some of the ways he designs these plays to get guys open It's easy to understand how these receivers need to know every single position group because a given play There are five skill position players one of those players. They're assigned a letter Why whatever it is and you could switch that based on pre-snap and post-snap motion. That's been one of the one of the Primary things I've noticed through the two practices I went to is how much pre-snap and post-snap motion there is and I'll say this too. I would say the biggest highlight in the camp or the biggest thing that I've taken away and this is something that shouldn't be news to a Lot of people but seeing it in person is pretty damn dope Malik neighbors is the focal point. There are plays designed to get Malik neighbors Isolated against specific defenders and we've seen it so many times We're talking about different types of formations where Malik neighbors will be the number three an empty 12 personnel and The way the route combinations work out Malik neighbors gets isolated off of a delayed release with somebody who was to his Right on that same side dragging to open up the horizontal part of the plane horizontal part of the field And then somebody outside of him clearing out the vertical to get him isolated against a slot corner Sometimes a safety. I believe I've seen Isaiah Simmons who is a slot corner now to isolated against Darius Layton and isolated against Malik neighbors And the fact that yes, it's great when that's Malik neighbors, but now let's say Malik neighbors hyper focused on all the time Defense adjusts. All right, let's fly Jalen Hyatt into that role Let's slide Wandale Robinson into that role. Darius Layton whoever it is now you can have them Understand that role understand what they have to do on those plays and the defense of attention is going to be on Malik neighbors But those plays can still be run by the New York Giants receivers because they understand every single position within the wide receiver room So the comprehension of the wide receivers is very important But man my key takeaway is you're gonna see a lot of design plays creative design plays short intermediate deep former league neighbors get isolated in one-on-one matchups And that's something that every giant bench would be excited about because we have another receiver like this since like I said before It'll be Jay you're right and it's exciting for a multitude of reasons one because they're doing it So early you talked about the complexities of the offense for a wide receiver Well, I'll tell you what I've seen a lot of wider severs enter complex offense the NFL And it seems to me like he's picking it up fast And if he wasn't we would know we would know by now if Malik neighbors is doing a poor job picking up this offense Because we've certainly seen it before with our own guys get areas Tony and we've seen it with other wide receivers around the NFL struggle So that's a great sign number one number two. I like the fact that You're talking about how this offense is designed a lot of ways for Malik neighbors to be the focal point I've seen a lot of tape so far from that And I don't got a tape just flips from camp so far where he is two three four steps open. Yeah, that is crazy He looks almost unguardable despite the defense understanding and knowing that's offense and knowing that he is the focal point of His offense and they're just you talked about the release where Bellinger ran the vertical and it gave him that kind of inside Release and he had a few steps there But I mean that that throw bet design throwback play where Joan that Jones tried to hit him on he was three four steps there Some of these verticals were talking three four steps and we're not talking NFL open at that time We're talking college open from this type of guy. He's getting open against NFL DB's and you could say all the Giants DB struggle They don't have all the guys there. It doesn't matter dude. These are NFL players and he's getting really open very often And sometimes it's it's skiing too like Malik neighbors And he could burn any cornerback on this on this team right like Deontte banks can go punch for punch with them But on any given play the league neighbors can beat him But that play that you brought up that I put on Twitter Malik neighbors is the line behind Daniel Bellinger Daniel Bellinger clears out and I don't remember what cornerback that was But he was an outside shade so Daniel Bellinger occupies that outside shade and then you have Bryce Ford Wheaton Dragging underneath to remove the apex defender. So now you're just creating space So what do you do as an offense when you create space you attack space and what's the best way to attack space Dan? You use your best player to go into that space get isolated against a corner back And it was Andrew Phillips who was the victim on this play Malik neighbors hit him with a hesi Andrew Phillips stepped outside Zoomed outside shade gave neighbors the window to go right inside and then Andrew Phillips Pointed to push there was no one to push to because Bryce Ford Wheaton just cleared that guy out and Daniel Bellinger Just removed the other defender who was slightly to the outside Occupying the eyes of probably you couldn't see it on the play But there might have been a post safety in that area Daniel Bellinger was also occupying those eyes So you're talking about very unique and creative route Combinations to set up your superstar wide receiver and to your point there Nick one We discussed in the past how strongly we feel about Brian Dable as a play designer and play creator based on the tape We've seen and this backs that up and it's a big reason why we have a longer leash with him as a coach because we know You can't find this very easy. There's a lot of bad coach hires that go down There's not a lot of head coach. It's not like it's it's kind of like quarterback You and when you go to when you need a new coach you can sometimes get a joe judge You can sometimes get a bed macadoo. I brought up a little bit earlier the 12 personnel play So last year the Giants they would align in 12 personnel sometimes and go empty right and they would align the two It was Daniel Bellinger and sometimes Darren Waller out on the outside But they didn't have a weapon to align at the number three When you align two tight ends in 12 personnel defense is gonna match a 12 personnel might come out with a nickel sub package Could run the football maybe even go a little bit heavier depending on the defensive coordinator But now you're going to take those linebackers because you're aligning the two tight ends outside Beyond the numbers those two linebackers are gonna move and vacate the middle of the field and now you have a number three receiver Name Malik neighbors who you can put and what I mean by number three receiver I mean the inner most and empties are gonna have three wide receivers more than likely to the field side meaning the wide side And then two wide receivers to the boundary side and that number three is the inner most to the third receiver side with no Linebackers in the middle of the field We've seen plays like that in camp Dan. So what is that going to do? Oh Shit, I'm a cornerback and I have Malik neighbors And if I press him he can run around me and if I give him space that you have a two-way go And this guy's gonna find a way to get open into an area of the field where you have maybe one safety who's trying to lurk down to protect against that But if that happens and that safety lurks down to protect against that slant or that post from Malik neighbors Now you have Jalen Hyatt And this is the number two on the other side or the number two next to Malik neighbors And you have a safety down the box it could create an explosive play that way So the sheer talent and the skill set of Malik neighbors with the creativity of Brian Dable if the offensive line can hold up and if the quarterback can get Malik neighbors of football or any of those other weapons because the defense Is that right like neighbors so aggressively? You're talking about creating explosive plays and you're talking about scoring points for the offense Exactly because look when we see these charts and this is the second point I was gonna make when we see these charts that we've seen over the past few years 2022 season 2023 where everybody looks in the right Wait a second what the Giants wide receivers are some of the best in the separation weight rate in the NFL I mean Daris Layton's been like insane numbers Jalen Hyatt had good numbers last year not as good as the other two Wanda and Darius had unbelievable separation number part of that is because of the design of the offense the coach and the designers who are Making this up creating this offense and what that leads me to believe is if we can get to a point where we know We're designing good offense. We know we have some guys who are like four four type guys after the catch We can get to the point where the timing is right right where the ball is being thrown with anticipation and the offensive line is held up and the ball is getting out in front and they're recognizing it fast and giving that Maximizing that space with the ball placement with the release with the timing with it with the anticipation It's gonna be a really good offense That's what we have to get to if we can just get to that point where the protection holds up enough and I even believe you know I believe this it's less so protection because if you get to that point with your offense where you're anticipating things And you're getting the ball out fast and only takes two two and a half seconds to get the ball out on time there Sometimes less to be honest You want the ball out as fast as you can if you can anticipate it well enough and understand what space is going to be and at that Point deal line and D line is negated It's a big reason why I used to be a big believer in fast coverage over past rush because I was like if you're talking about the best Quarterbacks the real good ones the ones who are winning Super Bowls They're getting the ball out so fast that the past rushes in a lot of times negated So there is some excitement there Jones can get this timing down. He's drilling it He's working it. He has day after day He's improving hopefully on the timing of this offense and that's exciting because all he has to do man I really think that this quarterback this offense can be so quarterback friendly quarterback proof If you could just feel good about where the space is gonna be and where and where to get the ball out and just get it Out on time and ahead of the receiver Absolutely, and you're also gonna have to worry about guys dropping off the line of scrimmage to undercut neighbors Once that gets out on tape and everything people there's gonna be ways defenses can move the chessboard in their favor But then you adjust and you adapt and you have a mobile quarterback and the Giants haven't been shy about allowing Daniel Jones to move Use his mobility in training camp now. It's not getting popped. He's not getting hit But he looks good back there and Daniel Jones has Maneuvered the pocket well stepped up made a couple off platform throws now. He's inconsistent overall, but In terms of movement, it's something that I've definitely taken away saying he might just be full ready Go like you can use him like you used him back in 2022 I love a great deal as much as the next guy But I'm not going to enter a parallel universe or go through some elaborate Labyrinth just to save a few bucks. It has to be easy. No hoops. No BS So when mint mobile said it was easy to get wireless for $15 a month with the purchase of a three-month plan I called them on it turns out it really is that easy to get wireless for $15 a month It's easy to switch to the website has a good interface I have a couple buddies would recommend to this to me. 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Yeah, I mean, that's the goal. They're gonna have to use them like they use them in 2020 I do we've talked about this a lot Nick But that's that's kind of the baseline for where where we're gonna be at with Daniel Jones and I'll say this This is that courtesy of Jacob Gibbs who works or CBS sports with me Dave used him as a Russia more under Brian table specifically in the red zone then almost any quarterback his red zone scramble rate before Brian Dable was four percent Daniel Jones since then it's fourteen percent his red zone designed rush rate because the scramble is not a design run Was ten percent before table got here and was up to twenty percent seven percent with table So we're talking about massive jumps as far as the usage of Daniel Jones as a runner in addition at the quarterback position So I don't think that can go away. I think it's a big part of who he is and what he offers and why they resigned him And so I just think they have to put it to risk And it's interesting because then it goes into the injury guarantee stuff Which yeah, I can't think about you just have to just let it rip and hope for the best there And a lot of that too was skiing right it's like oh you want to aggressively rush your rusher up the arc Okay, we're gonna attack the be gap. We're gonna take four or five yards Daniel Jones get down or those RPO plays Or Daniel Jones would roll out to his left. There would be somebody sliding into the flat with him and then get some poor apex defender Isolated against like Daniel Bellinger in the flat or Daniel Jones's legs. So a lot of this is also attributed to Just brilliant offense where Daniel Jones ended up taking it with his legs because the defender was in conflict And he was like I guess I'll go with Daniel Bellinger and Jones he can cover ground, dude So you can he's a big long strider and so that has to continue to be a part of the offense and it will I don't think they'll have any hesitation always coming off an ACL It's a little different like I remember when that came off his big injury is the ankle against the Giants I predicted for fantasy and I was right that the Cowboys went because they used to he used to have like six Frushing touchdowns a year that his they wouldn't use him on zone read anymore And I and I was right they don't really call zone read from anymore. That's Dak Prescott I think Daniel Jones is at a different point in his career than Dak Prescott is I think at that point in his career The Cowboys are like we got this guy locked up and we believe in him for a long time and we need to keep him I think for the Giants. It's everyone understands. This is it for Jones. It's put up or shut up time They can get out of his contract next year if he doesn't perform So they got to let him perform to his best and that includes rushing to be completely honest with you He can't just be a dropback guy. He hasn't proven that he can successfully be that this point in his career Even 2022 which is his best season of his career Daniel Jones a big factor in that was his rushing and his scrambling his scramble rate Brought up his EPA by massive degrees in the Giants got a lot of first downs and key games by Jones taking the big app Like you said and running for the first down So it's not like that's it dude now your pocket baster because that's just simply not going to work This translates nicely to the next one, which is you weren't at this practice today but you I'm sure read about it and the first team offense struggled mightily during Tuesday's practice and a big factor I believe in that was like neighbors basically taking a day off I saw that he ended up getting some reps. There was a past intended for neighbors on one of these But the Giants first team offense really struggled they Jones went six of 14 in training camp practice That means you know, there's no real pressure anything. You're missing eight of these 14 throws In addition to that too, they said should have been intercepted They said also that multiple of them would have been sacks most of all multiple those 14 attempts would have been sacks And neighbors didn't really play and I don't think it's a big coincidence that the first team offense struggled With neighbors out. I really do believe that he is going to be not not not a necessary the necessary piece I think if you're right and what you're saying Nick that your observation is that they've already designed this offense Is him to be the focal point. They cannot really afford to not have him on the field He's the first punch. He's the primary punch now that punch is taken away. Then you have Londale You have high you have a lot of other options that you can go to and I think your assessment is correct without Malik neighbors Your offense is going to be significantly dialed back, but it's also the offensive line the juggling of the offensive line John Runyon I don't know how many team periods he played at left guard But he has discussed like I said a little bit earlier like he doesn't like flipping and mirroring his his normal footwork to Something different like that's not something that he really wants to do But I'm sure he'll be open to doing and it might be what ends up happening It's still early in camp so you can make that move now But again that brings in the whole Evanio conversation and we already kind of went through that but yeah, Dan. I I'm not encouraged by that But I'm also a little bit happy that the defense showed up right because I don't want the defense to get torn up either And that's something that I wouldn't say has necessarily happened throughout camp It's not like the Giants offense has been just like electric or anything It's more just Wow Malik neighbors is great in these one-on-ones or in seven on seven We see Malik neighbors make this play and but like this I wasn't there But this period it seems like it was it was rough. What were the stats? It was the Giants and eight plays only gained a yard. Yeah I think kind of Roger reported that an eight-place counter he was on an eight-place stretch for the Giants first team offense They gained one yard on eight plays So that and I think it was a short pass or something underneath that got rallied to yeah So one thing I yeah, it's a Jalen Hyatt in the flat. I think is what I what I read one thing I will say and this is something when you go to training camp And I know you've been to training camp so you know this as well There are periods and there are times That that the Giants are doing something specific to see how it works out right and a lot of its conjecture Because it's like sometimes it could be oh, we're gonna put this guy in the spot And we're gonna play and we could see that big. Oh 64 is there. Oh my god, you know But then there's other times where it's something from a play calling standpoint or it's something different that they're trying to do And we're just unaware of it because it's not available to the media. It's not available to the public Could that be the case right maybe I'm not saying that it's not I'm not saying that it is But it is important to note that in training camp It is a lot of trial and error and a lot of stuff where the coaching staff is trying to see if they can get away with certain things Or if they have certain certain cards in their back pocket So that's not gonna be privy to us unless it's asked to them And then they're going to reveal their cards to you, which how likely is that no? It's not likely, but I do think that's an excellent point by you I also think another point to qualify this as as a plus or you know a silver lining would be that look not everybody has had The let's say rapport that like a Joe burrow in a and a Jamar chase have had in their careers They can step on a training camp and it's perfect. Jam Jones hasn't had that many reps with neighbors He hasn't had that many reps with Wanda Robinson Honestly, given the two-in-drink the arcs of both of their career great point and Galen Hyatt as well very few reps with him I mean a few games here and there and last year's training camp But like not all the reps in the world so they still need to get their timing down Darry's slate and those ones have been a little more alarming to me There's been a few and more than a few comeback routes to slate and that have just been sailed over his head and and two deep balls That went over his head I mean that should the timing was slate and should be down They should understand each other but also part of that is Daniel Jones working his way back from an injury So he has to also get better a few different time because Daniel Jones didn't have team drills during the OTAs the early OTAs So part of that is a factor too So I think we got to give all this offensive benefit the doubt But I do don't I also don't think it's a coincidence that when neighbors is out It just looks completely different and we also had JMS out to yeah, and I believe 97 was back So you're talking about Austin Schlopman so that's something and again I'm not sure if because they're just trying to slowly ramp the extra Lawrence back because he had that illness yesterday So maybe he didn't receive those those reps But if he did that's a big deal. Yeah, it is All right one more thing on the offense and we're going to try to transition to a couple defense points I feel like most of our focus so far throughout training game our coverage has been in offense And that's just how it is I mean look the Cheyenne's offense is the focal point of with the steam will turn around or not if we're gonna be honest They were one of the worst in the NFL last year. So Last thing on the offense I think we've seen I think going into this year Nick We can look back on Jalen Hyatt's rookie season and say at least I can and I'll see if you disagree or agree with this The two biggest areas that he needed to improve were one his play strength and to his route running in his route diversity He did not run a lot of different kind of routes on the first front We saw he added a lot of muscle and a lot of actual, you know He's been putting on weight this offseason. That's can be conjecture I don't know if that's totally translates one to one to his play strength We'll find that out in real games just maturing does though to a huge game coming out of college So but I think more of that we'll find out in real games But the second one the route running we can see already because you get to watch a lot of different routes one-on-ones But they're route running and I think you did a good job breaking down one of them in your clip You put on Twitter But I think from what I've seen on a multitude of different plays that I've seen of Hyatt He's taken a jump from a route running standpoint some of these red zone drills What are your thoughts from what you got to see in person as far as his route running goes? He's a lot crisper and I think the aspect of his route running that I'm most impressed by is what he does at the top of his route Jalen Hyatt was a vertical guy. He was somebody who could just turn the burners on and just leave you in the dust Now you're starting to see him run these really nuanced Come back and curl routes these routes where you release to the outside you bend back into the inside to try and stack while also leaning on the corner back if this is man coverage and then right as you approach the top of the break your destination is to the sideline mind you right as you approach the top of the break you flash the head to the inside you lean with that Inside shoulder and then you just put that foot in the ground and then you present your chest and your hands to your quarterback So we can hit you and you can drag your feet out of bounds and you could pick up the first down And we're seeing those little nuances at the top of his route stem. It's through what he does with his body It's through his head movements and it's through how fluid and smooth he looks sinking his hips and exploding out of the break so there is a level of Mentals to this there is a level of explosiveness and athletic ability and fluidity and it does seem to be a little bit more Developed from what we saw last year and you can attribute a lot of this to the hard work that he has put in throughout this entire offseason and coach Mike Groh who has taken a ton of time out of his out of his life when he didn't have to to help Jalen Hyatt grow and Jan has also out there early Practice almost every practice honing in on these skills and developing a rapport with Daniel Jones So if there's anybody on this and then there are a few players like this But I would not be shocked if we see if the offense is functional and there's a lot of there's an if there right? But if the offense is functional like Jalen Hyatt could benefit So much from the presence of Malik neighbors because if he gets one-on-one match ups And he gets safety to a more rolled down to the box to eliminate shorter throws He's like Jalen Hyatt has the burners and now he has the route running ability to create immediate separation Not just through the fact that he's fast But also through the fact that he knows what he's doing up his route stand great point And I think that we're gonna see a big steady drum beat continue to build throughout the rest of this training camp with Jalen Hyatt Like you said the production that's gonna be dependent on the o-line in the quarterback So I'm not gonna you know We're gonna do what we continue to do watch the tape and see how they're doing because a wider zebra man You can have a grade on him by stats and you could have a totally different grade on him based on the film That's why I really like what Matt Harmon does the reception perception he looks at the actual are they winning their routes because It's not their fault if the o-line breaks down or if the quarterback doesn't get the ball out on time or see them You just got to keep battling through it And I hope you're right though that the extra work he's putting in specifically with Daniel Jones We'll help him find production. I think the sickest one I saw from him I wasn't at the practice, but it was one of the earlier practice where he ran a post I think he was the outside corner back It was in the end zone and he bent the post and he got the corner back to flip And then he just put the foot in the ground and was just heading right back I know that route yep And I was like that is a route that not a lot of wide receivers can run that crisply because you got to be able to maintain your balance Through your cut and then explode to create that extra separation and he's creating that separation again Not just through again the the speed and the and the nuance But also he he has that a little bit more bulk He's not gonna bully cornerbacks But I believe he has a little bit more bulk to at least like lean into contact and maybe create a little bit separation with the flip You know and he's still a 22 year old kid and he's still developing and he seems to have a good disposition about him And I'm excited for his future Giants have done a lot on all they've added so much offensive talent man They used a second round pick on a receiver and early second He's the third round pick use a six overall pick use a seventh pick on an offensive line They use the fourth pick with Andrew Thomas the 55th pick They mean they really added a lot of players to this offense They should at some point theoretically have a good offense Nick. You have that much talent on their team You know, it's just a matter of time I think hopefully for these guys to come together because I do agree with you I think Jalen I it's gonna out produce his draft stock that he can lean at some point I you know, there's other factors that come into the production side of it But definitely I excited about that. I want to talk a little bit about the Giants pass rush starting to get would-be sacks in these practices So I don't really make an impact It's and it's a unit that we think if the Giants do outperform expectations this year We'll be one of the major factors in why they're doing so I thought Brian Burns Dexter Lawrence came on to build her all starting to come into their own Did you see anything yesterday's practice or the other practice you're at or even from today's from afar that I stood out to you there Not really from yesterday's practice yesterday's practice was a lot of runs, right There's a lot of running and and they took you know drew lock Step back and through Daniel Jones didn't throw that much in 11 on 11 They did a lot of skelly and seven on seven throws and things like that which were which were exciting But there's no pass rush there so I look I think the pass rush is gonna be good I think cave on tibido from the one-on-ones that I heard about because we couldn't see the one-on-ones yesterday where the media was Or really where the fans were but I talked to somebody who was over there who had access and he said cave-on tibido Seeing and that somebody was Jon Schmelt by the way He said cave on tibido looked very good in In the one-on-one drills like he was the one who stood out Andrew Thomas and Brian Burns They kind of traded reps something that you would expect Brian Burns won some Andrew Thomas won some and then everything else was just kind of like it wasn't Anything super noteworthy other than other than that cave on looked very good, and I'll say this about cave on look He's he's a big guy, right like six foot five or whatever Mm-hmm. I saw him standing next to me, and I'm like you're much bigger than I thought you would be like from like a muscular Like he's very very big Yeah, like and I'm around all these guys and I'm like yeah, they're all massive They're all gigantic, but something about cave on where I was like yeah You're like a lot bigger than than I thought you would be I knew you would be very large But very well put together human being yeah, man I mean that was you know when he was it was a year before he got drafted But he was viewed as one like at at one point They thought he'd be like kind of like a generational edge prospect not that's probably a little bit over the top They thought he was me. Yeah I don't know if it was over the top because before the Giants drafted right what viewed that way before like the draft cycle kind of You're before his final season at Oregon. Yes. Yeah. Yeah again a lot of those college guys If they show flashes in right what he did The draft Twitter is just gonna jump on him and they're gonna hype him up Maybe even better than he is but cave on was very good in college And I think you can still be very good in the NFL right now I still think he is he's an above average edge who is on the ascent and I think I think you could take a huge I think he could take a big step in year three with decks and burns on this defense yep agreed entirely with that So I'm very excited about Giants pass rush think it has a chance to be a lot better than I would say consensus Other fans realize so I said the Giants fans are attuned to it But I don't think everybody else is and I know we said that last year about the pass rush But there were moments for the pass rush last year one and two they didn't have Brian burns They now have this year by the way, you know, there hasn't been much talk about it yet But I just came to my attention because we're talking about pass rush I've heard and I haven't seen you know, I'm not at practice and I haven't seen all these clips or anything But I've heard disease is having a good early start to cam no injuries yet and has looked pretty good at any Did you get the chance to see anything from his ease? I haven't really seen my focus in on him But I've I've heard somebody say that as well Yeah So just something to keep an eye on to because man if that guy can be a good situational pass rusher for the Giants That's just like a fourth option after the big three It just gives them such a so much more Momentum to be a defense that we hope they can be and we'll see what happens because I do still believe look Everyone's talking about oh, I'm so worried about the Giants secondary outside of the on-day banks And I understand those concerns to an extent, but I've seen so many teams Mitigate the cons the secondary concerns if they have a dominant enough front for and so I'm still believe that that's possibility for the Giants And we're talking about Dexter Lawrence Brian Burns cave on typical on one front Yeah, and yesterday's practice decks wasn't there and Jordan Riley was the one who filled in for him and I just thought that was noteworthy I mean never was a guy had no shit Jordan Riley, but remember we did sign Jordan Phillips Yeah, people made that into like a big deal and oh, yeah veteran guy He might come in and then I'm like I don't think he's gonna start though He's like 340 pounds - like I like that's massive. He's not that big, but he's like close to it. Right. Yeah, very big guy And I being that big you think I you know I would see him I don't see him like at all in camp It's like it's more like Elijah Chapman making plays in third team and Jordan Riley with the first team yesterday because Dexter Lawrence Was out right or Anderson is in there a lot. I spoke with writer Anderson and after practice and you know I asked him about hand technique and I didn't I guess I think Ed might have shared that video since I'm there for Yeah, I'm not sure every shared it, but Ed was interviewing him. So I went over and I spoke and he's a she's Gigantic too, which is yeah in terms of size, right? But seem like a humble kid and you know He's excited for the opportunity ahead of him and somebody like oh, it's just the best opportunity somebody asked like Oh, it's just the best opportunity you've ever received. He's like not the current opportunity is always the best opportunity And I was like yeah, man like that's that's that's the mentality you need so go out there and ball rider Anderson Yeah, those are the types of questions. I could do without the best news What are we learning from that? No offense no offense. I know it I didn't ask it, but still no I know you didn't know you didn't ask and I'm not blaming the person or asking it I'm just more interested in what you said the first time the hand technique type questions and like stuff that could actually translate But look it is an opportunity for him And I think that's obvious and we're gonna see how he does with it These are players rider Anderson Jordan Riley the players you're naming that are gonna play a role you need to have a rotation on the offensive line It's one of those not one of those positions like DB or wide receiver where you see some guys have a hundred percent of the snaps Like McKinney ad last year or whatever it's a rotation position. So very interested to see how those guys do as well Another guy. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah one more name I wanted to to bring up just because you had this clear sack it might have been 13 or might have been second team Yesterday, and it's Deontae Johnson cuz we brought him up a couple weeks before for him Yeah, because Mike Mike McFadden. He's another one who's having that slow ramp up into Into playing time and Here's starting to see Isaiah Simmons. You're starting to see Cara Coughlin earning first team snaps in the you know nickel dime Subpackage along with Bobby O'Kareke sometimes those guys aren't even out there, but I've seen Deontae Johnson out there He's well put together dude. He's big. He's making plays and it's hard to make plays that line back And when you're not actually tackling it's just kind of like execute your run fit Well, but he did have a clear shot in on whoever the quarterback was and would have been an easy sack and it just kind of gets me thinking like Maybe he has like a path to this roster and a path to I don't want to say playing time but should we be concerned about Mike McFadden with a defensive switch and him not being fully ramped up early on here in training camp I Wouldn't I wouldn't say concerned for me, but I would say We can feel like this is more open maybe as a position battle than we originally thought because I also think there's like Meghan Fanon a really really great stretch last year and I was harsh on the beginning and I remember Carl Banks saying like look I'm telling you give this guy some time and it's gonna start to click for him And then it did click for him But it didn't last the entire season yet If I like five six game stretch where I clicked and then fell off a little bit the end the season ended up with a really high Miss tackle rate Mike McFadden something we've just talked about in converting that and I don't really think they're well There were some flashes. I still don't think he improved to becoming a great asset for you in your zone defenses in past coverage I don't I think he'll be limited his old career given his length at the position for getting his hand in passing lays And just being lanes and just being that kind of player who can help you in that regard in zone defense Man defense. I've never felt like he was gonna be a big option in past coverage in man defense So I think they're open to exploring different options a new defense So I would say that the Giants fans and us we should be open to that being a bit of a battle when we didn't maybe necessarily expected to be and the only reason I bring it up is because I had a little bit of it in my notes that Deontae Johnson also received some first team reps at some point in yesterday's practice along with Carter Cawthon Like I mentioned earlier, right and those are two guys who Cawthon Especially somebody who you know has made his way as a special teamer, but new defense You never know could find his way. All right another player I want to discuss a little bit steady drumbeat player probably the steadiest of all drum beats so far not obviously including late neighbors Who doesn't need a drumbeat? He's just they're already loud in your face But it's Nick McLeod the Giants corner who just continues to make play after play I saw a nice past deflection he made on a deep ball today Just this dude just shows up to work and does his job over and over and over again and gives me some confidence that at the very least The Giants can maybe have two corners. I can rely on this year Yeah, Andrew Phillips also mentioned Nick McLeod with well Yeah, he was good and yeah He was good on the field yesterday with his run fits had a couple TFLs that he had two But uh, he mentioned how Nick McLeod was helping him, you know With playing nickel and he's learning a lot from Nick McLeod and my first time at practice I saw Nick McLeod off to the side helping Isaiah Simmons with jam and press I don't know where he's going to end up I think in an ideal world because I really do believe in his skill set for what he is right now A player who like hey, if I went to anybody else on a nut who was a fan of another team Like a diehard fan of another team diehard fan of the NFL and I said, hey, Nick McLeod He's a pretty good player to be like who do you talk about? So that's the type of player we're talking about but giant fans know who Nick McLeod is And I believe he's a very smart and a very tough player very chippy player He got into it with Mondale Robinson a couple practices back Yesterday's practice on Monday. He got into it with Tyrone Tracy I believe he got into it with Tyrone Tracy also in a previous practice So this guy plays with some edge and I appreciate that in the cornerback But I think in an ideal world then he gets that starting spot opposite of Deontay Banks If the Giants don't sign a cornerback Which I kind of want the Giants to sign another outside cornerback Yeah, because if it's not Cordell Flott who has kind of had a rough camp so far I think he had a play today, but before today he had a pretty damn rough camp, right? Who the hell is it gonna be? And we're talking about Nick McLeod in the slot and it's like Okay, we could do that, but we also have Andrew Phillips who I think can be an asset We're entertaining Isaiah Simmons, right? We're talking about Darnay Holmes out on the outside. I'm not too confident about that with the second team So I'm hoping Nick McLeod can become a full-time starting player here But if not he should be out there in certain sub package rules And he can handle a lot of different responsibilities because he's smart tough and dependable Yeah, I'm with you on all that and I think he's nice and nice like Maybe the word is like state insurance policy for the Giants this year I think that's probably a good way to look at it that they may have not previously felt like they had a corner But we have to make sure that the coaching staff feels the same way But I do think it's a good early sign that he's getting all these reps Yes, there are a couple other beef at the back so we've been playing well Yeah, he's been a player who he got beat a couple times in yesterday's practice But beat is a word that you know He's ambiguous the way I'm using it because he was in tight coverage Just just Jones threw it well And then the receiver was Jalen Hyatt is the one to play that I'm referencing Made a nice tough contested catch And it's great to see Dane Belton moving around out there and seizing the opportunity Of first-team snaps because Tyler Newman is off with his calf injury Hopefully he can come back soon because I really want to see Tyler Newman out there Because I think he could be a really good player for this defense And then there's also Gervarious Owens who was earning second-team snaps Because Dane Belton is not there And this is a second practice in a row where Gervarious Owens has recorded an interception He got I think Drew Locke maybe twice maybe was Tommy DeVito the last time So Gervarious Owens is putting himself in the right place at the right time And he was one of the more impressive players in special teams drills And I know special teams drills they're not sexy But it does show a level of competency competitiveness And also a path to the roster for these players who otherwise would probably be cut Because they might not be considered as defensive players primarily They're more special teams assets And in yesterday's practice I marked this down in the Big Blue View practice report From yesterday they were doing gunner drills Where there was a bag about 15 yards down the field The gunner would go and then somebody would try to block them And it seemed like to me that like every time the gunner won It was just how much did they win by Basically it was just slow that guy down Yeah Every time it was Gervarious Owens though As the gunner it was like a clean win And I marked down all the clean wins that I saw Sure A couple more notes from that drill And just practice in general from yesterday if I may Yes let's do it I just wanted to bring this one guy up Because the tight end position is so interesting to me First off Theo Johnson gigantic human being Like that dude is huge right Secondly Jack stole had a rough practice on Monday Jack stole I think drop two passes Might have one might have been in seven on seven The other one was in team period third team He's not earning any first team reps All the other tight ends are earning first team reps Other than Tyree Jackson and Jack Stull Who got to camp a little bit late Because he was also coming back from an injury And he was really bad on the special teams drill That one special team drill that I was referring to before So not positive for him when you look at a very crowded tight end room Where all of them are earning first team reps Except for you and Tyree Jackson Who I would say a lot of people didn't pick to make this team Yeah, definitely something to keep an eye on We talked about it maybe a couple of days ago This tight end depth chart Someone's gonna get cut it's just a matter of who Because it's a numbers game Anything else from practice that we missed? I marked it all down on the big blue view article If anybody wants to go check it out at bigblueview.com There were a lot of zone stretch runs some zone reads I haven't seen as many power gap type runs You know, it's been more zone And just kind of getting the offensive line to step together Move as a unit synchronized And then execute their blocks climb up to the second level But hitting just started here in practice So you got to take all this With a little bit of a grain of salt, right? And I'm sure the Giants will still incorporate Much more physical power gap concepts But Devin Singletariot He's played in both systems But I would say he's probably a little bit more of a zone runner He had a lot of success last year With Bobby Sloak and the Texans running zone So if all of the line can get all on the same page That would be awesome for zone blocking And Turbo Miller popped off again yesterday With like a long, it could have been like a 40 yard touchdown run He made someone miss and went up the far sideline So it was a little bit tough to see from where I was But went up the far sideline And then everyone was kind of like cheering and celebrating And just get you to think man like He might have a shot, especially with Eric Gray Like if Eric Gray cannot differentiate himself From Devin Singletariot enough If he can't pass block And you're just basically like a slower version of Devin Singletari And then you have this lightning rod That you might not want to slip through, you know, waiver system It could come down to that Like preseason is going to be very important for Eric Gray And he's got to prove that he can be a little bit different than Devin Singletari I think he's a physical runner He seems to finish his runs He runs low behind his pads But sort of Devin Singletariot And he's a little bit more physical than Devin Singletariot But giants want explosiveness They want explosive weapons And I think Turbo He's that guy in preseason Who's going to like go off for like a 50 yard touchdown run And everyone's going to be like "Yo" You know, and it's going to put the giants in this awkward position Where they're like "Yo, are we going to cut our fifth round pick from last year?" It could be that I don't know if it is that right now, but it could be Could easily be that And I talked about this today On dynasty podcast at Fanny's football today with Heath About Turbo Miller And about just how open this giant step chart seems to be after running back one With Devin Singletariot Well, one, we already know it's not going to be a snap share percentage Like Devin Singletariot with Devin Singletariot This ain't going to be that Devin Singletariot is not going to morph into a workhorse They're going to use a multi-back system After Singletariot, there are a lot of touches to be had And I've heard, but I'm curious if you've seen any of it That Tyrone Tracey has also looked pretty good so far Any thoughts on Tracey? Did you get a chance to watch him at all? Yeah, I've seen Tracey move around And he's what you expect him to be I haven't seen him like make like a huge dynamic play I feel like Miller's the guy making that But Miller's also the guy going against like third and second team Where Tracey is mixing in with the first team a little bit Singletariot had a sick run yesterday as well Found a cut-back lane, just jumped through it And then a lot of people also Oh, the crowd like went wild So I think Singletari is going to be a good player But I don't think he's going to be that full-time back It's not really built like that He's like, you know, five-seven He's a pretty small guy, but he's like thickly built But yeah, it's interesting, man We always focus on this tight end room, Dan That running-back room could be fun too If Miller comes out in that first preseason game and does some stuff Without a doubt, it'll be very interesting to see All right, that's all we have today on the Big Boo Banter podcast Thank you so much for tuning in We will be doing another Hard Knocks episode Potentially tonight, but it's not tomorrow But so keep an eye out for that And then more training can coverage Nick is going to be back at camp on Thursday So we'll definitely have a good report coming from there Thanks so much for tuning in Please like if you watch this like hit the like button Please not just view it like it Download on iTunes and all of those good things So thank you so much, have a great rest of your week and we'll talk to you soon If your partner's snoring or sleep apnea is causing you to sleep apart The impact on your relationship can be devastating At SaaSaaClinics, we offer the proven, custom, simple solution To stop snoring and treat your loved one's sleep apnea It's covered by medical insurance And many patients are meeting their deductibles this time of year Which means less cash out of pocket for you Learn more at saaclinics.com That's SaaClinics.com Stop snoring Start sleeping Live life SaaSaaClinics.com
