Heartland Journal Podcast

Heartland Journal Podcast EP226 Harry Huary Interview & More 7 9 24

Joining us is Harry Haury Chairman of United Sovereign Americans (USA) is a nonpartisan organization comprised entirely of thousands of grassroots citizen volunteers from across the United States working to ensure legally-valid elections that are fair, accurate, and trustworthy. Our teams have measured the effect of millions of instances of apparent election fraud—as defined by the US Department of Justice—on the 2022 midterm elections. We have put it all together into a comprehensive and easy to understand framework, that shows that our voting system is broken, and the intent of qualified citizen voters has been drowned out by error. Through our education and litigation strategy we aim to fix it for all Americans. This is a fast pace look at voting in America and the underhanded way various powers are distorting the results and ways we can fix this. For more info go to https://unite4freedom.com/If you like what you hear make sure to subscribe to the show and share it with your friends. You can find us at http://heartlandjournal.com

Duration:: 1h 20m
Broadcast on:: 09 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

[Music] Welcome to the Heartland Journal's podcast with your host Steve Abramowitz, editor-in-chief of partlandjournal.com. Howdy, all. I'm Steve Abramowitz, and this is the Heartland Journal podcast. Welcome back. If you're new, welcome for the first time. We are focusing on our nation today with always an interesting person making a positive change in our community. Welcome to our people in our news, where I interview people who are making an impact and are lovers of truth. Today we are talking with special guest Harry Horrie. Harry is the co-founder of the United Sovereign Americans, an organization dedicated to preserving our democratic republic and holding our officials responsible for holding free, fair, honest, and valid elections. Harry has an extensive background in cybersecurity, operational security, and election operations through his work with such organizations as the NSA, CIA, Northcom, DHS, Treasury, OCC, D-O-D, D-I-S-A, F-E-M-A, which is FEMA, N-R-O, Sandia National Laboratories, and many others. He reviewed hundreds of videos, statements, statistical analysis, and other information to attempt to determine what may or may not have happened during the 2020 election. Mr. Horrie, how are you today, sir? I'm good. How are you? I am great. Thank you for coming on. Tell us what activated you to beg USA United Sovereign Americans a thing. So I got called in by some people that I was associated with right after the 2020 election. Many of the attorneys and various statisticians and people that were working to try to understand what happened in 2020 and providing cybersecurity analysis, election, process, and operations, consultation, and these types of things. Through that process, I got to be familiar with Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell and Phil Klein and Garland Faverito and everyone. And I have a background in the intelligence community, so I'm used to kind of a layered or triage approach to deciding whether I know something for a fact or whether I suspect something. And obviously, in an intelligence world and a department of defense world, you're often working in a fog of uncertainty. But in this particular situation, we are also working in a fog of uncertainty. And there were two issues that I had concern with, in particular. One is articulating our suspicions as fact. And so a lot of people got over their skis a little bit with what they claim to know as being completely solid fact. Doesn't mean they didn't have solid suspicions. But there's a difference between evidence-known fact and just suspicions. So this was the first issue. The second issue was that it became obvious that between the mainstream narrative and the political influences associated with the election process, and having knowledge, just as a by comment here, I've been involved on and off with elections since the 1980s. So I have some familiarity with the process. I was directly involved in writing the Help America Vote Act and consulting on the Bush versus Gore fight in the courts in the year 2000, associated with Florida and the certification in Florida. So what I tried to articulate at the time was, you have to look at information that you've got, and you've got to overlay that against the law and figure out whether or not you have sufficient evidence to adjudicate a case or just demand investigations. And the tapestry of our legal system with regard to elections is quite well determined. There's a lot of precedents out there from even the late 1700s, all the way through the 1800s, well into the 20th century. And now here we are in the 21st century trying to deal with things that have already been determined. But somehow the lawyers in the fight, the mainstream media, whatnot, seemed to have forgotten all of the lessons learned in the election masses of 1867 and 1888. So even though I was back there talking about them, unfortunately there weren't a lot of cyber experts and there weren't a lot of election experts around, just people that were concerned, not that there's anything wrong with this, but they were concerned about what obviously looked wrong in 2020 and how do you get to the bottom of it. And frankly, there's a process and we didn't follow that process in 2020. It was an emergency, I'm not faulting anybody, the people that were working on it are good people, but they didn't have familiarity with how judges react to election matters, how they react to the administrative states misconduct. He also didn't have such a rampant amount of lawfare back then. And for Rudy Giuliani, who you mentioned, it cost him everything. He filed for bankruptcy in December and Sidney Powell, a wonderful Sidney Powell had to fight for her license in Texas to practice law over a false ethics charge, all related to them doing what you did, trying to get to the bottom of election integrity. Let me ask you this to kind of big picture. Benjamin Franklin wrote, "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." So four years of Trump and now nearly four years of Biden and the spotlight on all the goings on what we call the deep state, but I'm sad to call just the state. It's so large, Leviathan. Franklin also said, "In a republic, however, each man must somehow be persuaded to submerge his personal wants into a greater good of the whole, and someone said once the population and democracy also called mob rule, learns they can vote themselves all the money in the tragedy we are done for." That was Alexander Fraser, Tyler, an obscure Scotsman said that. "So have we reached the point? Are we no longer a federalist, constitutional republic, but now a mobocracy like Franklin warned against a republic if you can keep it?" That's a freshant comment about, "Now you have a republic, let's see if you can keep it." This is the problem, but actually I don't think the people are the problem, per se, it's the political representation that we have. I've said this to people all along. We think of this as a Biden versus Trump issue, and in fact it's a democratic representation issue versus the people that would not prefer for us to have a democracy or a democratic republic would be a better way to say it obviously. I don't want to get into that semantic game, but the fact of the matter is they implemented a republic instead of a democracy to try to attenuate that natural urge that you're talking about. We didn't have mob rule, but now what they found out is that if you just corrupt a certain number of precincts and a certain number of critical counties, you can sway a populace that is roughly divided 50/50 pretty easily, or you can cheat. I'm not saying that they didn't cheat. I'm just saying that the data that we have and the failure of all investigations because of overt attempts by the state to protect itself from the DOJ refusing to investigate or litigate issues with regard to election misconduct in 2020 or 2022. We have this whole GBI incident that was well documented. They don't do a meaningful investigation of it and they just hope it all goes away. There's the Bethpage New York matter. There's the flagrant problems with the machines yet we certify the election without any proof that they're actually working. They don't do the certifications that are required by law. They don't do the second checking and auditing that's required by law when there's suspicion that there's a problem. Then the people that touch the machines from Tina Peters to the people in Antrim County, Michigan, they're trying to put them in jail for trying to get to the bottom of what's happening with the machines, but actually the problem is much more profound and extensive than just a voter roll problem or just a machine problem. It has to do with the destruction of the validity of our entire system and the attacks are many. There's the mail-in ballots without chain of custody, the machines being bought with contracts that say you can't look at the code even though the federal law that's applicable to national critical infrastructure requires a code review. Technically, the secretaries of state or counties that signed those were violating the Code of Federal Regulations and the National Espionage Act at the same time, but no one pursues any of that because the system itself, this is what I say to people, it's not that we don't have good leadership. Even in the Democratic Party, there are good leaders, but the problem is that every leader that we have at least have some level of allegiance to the current system because that's how they got there. They're all in natural conflict and the judicial system has a long tradition of not liking to interfere with elections because they think it's primarily a state matter. It's only when something significant like the Florida issue in 2000 comes to light or the Republican, by the way, House of Representatives member that is found to have cheated in North Carolina that they interceded. It seems like since 2020, there's been a lot more of that than they used to say they don't like to get involved, but now they've been forced to. I'm curious that quote, a republic if you can keep it. Why do you think a woman on the street, it could be myth, it could be fantasy, but why do you think she bothered to ask that question after the convention and the votes were in? Do you think she knew when she asked Mr. Franklin, are we a democracy and what the difference for the future of the country would be? So the problem, if you have strict majority rule that's not attenuated in any fashion whatsoever, is that you do have mob. Once the mob figures out there and control of the purse strings, they can do whatever they want. We have some of that now. You see the, frankly, you see shielding of certain efforts that are resulting in the movement of large amounts of money by the mainstream media. I mean, what are the first things they do to us? They call us election deniers, or they call us racists, or they call us whatever. That's an attempt to dissuade us from exercising the civil rights that we still have. We have a problem at United Sovereign Americans, of which I'm a co-founder in 2022, 2023 range. The reason we established our organization was to try to litigate basic civil rights matters as they pertain to the conduct of elections. Again, on a nonpartisan basis, I make no bones about the fact that I'm a conservative, but I don't want to see liberals cheated out of their proper representation either. That's throwing our Constitution to the wind, and tyranny on the right is no better than tyranny on the left. It's just who's getting hurt by it. The idea of attenuation though is embedded in our whole manner of governance. One of the most stalwart of the systems structures is the Supreme Court. It's supposed to be independent of all this partisan nonsense. They're doing everything they can to make it partisan, matter why. They want to stack the Supreme Court the first time in the U.S. history that people are openly talking about overthrowing the Supreme Court by changing the number of judges that there are. There have been considerations of that, but the whole reason that federal judges are appointed for life is because of the intertwined nature of our governance structure. The judges were supposed to be independent of worldly requirements and be free to consider philosophical issues that are often greater than the issues of the day. So they were given appointment for life for a very specific constitutional reason so that they did not have to report to the electorate on a daily basis. They would be appointed by our representatives, but after that, they would become something independent of our representatives, which much to our chagrin often happens. We see Warren in the 1950s become one of the most liberal judges we've ever had as a Supreme Court Chief Justice. And everything in the local becomes weaponized as we've seen with the justice program, whatever. In some of what we're seeing now with the censorship, illegal spying, arresting old ladies for praying in front of Planned Parenthood and violation they say of the safe act, jam six trespassing misdemeanors who are getting jail time now going on for years. What else? Suspending freedom to assemble some of them haven't even been tried yet. So it's worse than King George, right? I'd argue. So so what can you tell us about say the original Tea Party in Boston and their grievances versus those infringements that shall not be infringed that's going on today when it comes to elections? And so the whole basis was no taxation without representation, right? And so I mean, we see, you know, the overturning of the Chevron Doctrine and Chacursky versus the SEC. And it's a major case. Most people were focusing on the immunity issue and, you know, these official acts issues with regard to President Trump. But Chevron is actually a very far-reaching decision, which is going our way, right? Which is saying that the administrative and bureaucratic state, even the executive state, cannot overrule law. There's not some premise that gives them authority. And we've done this with our elections right and left. We let the county executives decide who won the election. That's not the way it's supposed to work. The people are supposed to decide. So they're supposed to render an accurate count that's compliant with the law. And if you examine the data, the data is explosive. I mean, there are tens of millions of illegal voter registrants. I'm not talking about illegal immigrants. I'm talking about registrations that are on a facial basis who not comply with the law. And millions of those voters voted, which makes them under the code of law, the United States code, makes them illegal ballots being counted. And we call counting and illegal, knowingly counting. And that's an interesting word as well. But knowingly counting illegal ballots is election fraud. But we see in the mainstream media that they don't even understand what the meaning of the words election fraud are. There's, you know, the governing rule with regard to fraud, as it pertains to elections, was decided in in coy, Ari, coy in 1888 by the Supreme Court of the United States. It says that election officials have no right to plead ignorance. They have no right to hide behind not knowing the law. They have a duty as an election official to know the law and to execute it properly. And it's an election, it's election fraud. If somebody even unknowingly commits a criminal act that has the responsibility to know that it was a criminal act to begin. So the same would go for certifications, but I want to talk about that in a minute. So that's what we actually are pointed at is certifications more than anything else. Yeah, go ahead. That's the tip of the spear there, the very pinnacle. But prior to 1776, there had never been a country founded on freedom and liberty, you know, yes, slavery, but you know, divine right of kings, colonialism, that's all what people knew. So thank you. So we've kind of framed a virtuous people and not so virtuous, deep state. So let's get into election integrity. We know the narrative is 2020 was the most secure election of all time, pure than a high school senior class president election. And they don't want us to ask questions. But we do have questions. What can you tell us about the weaponization of the state department, Hillary's old purview as secretary and SISA, the intelligence community digital office and their quest to nationalize elections that are supposed to be state and local run by law. So that's a broad question. We only have a little bit of time. So try to try to keep it concise. We don't know who the voters are and they're voting anyway. We don't know if the ballots that are being counted are even valid ballots to begin with. We don't know if the tabulators are accurately counting and nobody thinks that it's important to provide an ability to actually audit an election. So this is a recipe for disaster, which is what 2020 was and what 2022 was and what 2024 will be if we don't fix it. So we're going right at the civil rights matter. Our litigation strategy is a civil rights strategy, because the third sentence of the Constitution says we have a right to elect our representatives. And if we don't know that they were elected and they don't know that they were elected, that means somebody's appointing them, not electing them. So when the secretary of state calls an election official at a county and says, I'm going to put you in jail if you don't certify your election. This is a direct abrogation of the law. If that person is the federal authority on certifying the election, they have a responsibility not only to know what the accurate count was, but to know that it was actually compliant with the law. The other thing is we attack all these issues as little standing islands. There are thousands of things that they are doing wrong because of apathy primarily or disinterest on the part of the electorate because the mainstream media is feeding them this constant stream of everything's fine. These election deniers are all conspiracy theorists, but we've measured it. What we did is go out and look at the voter rolls and the record of voter participation and the numbers are staggering. Millions of illegal voter registrations, millions of people voting that have illegal registrations, and a massive vote to voter discrepancy, which means that the official count of the number of voters and the official count of the number of ballots is significantly different. In some states, enough to have swayed even governors and and senatorial races. This is a disaster. It's a little fashion ballot stuffing just with a with a modern twist. Is it true? Now we can do we can do it electronically because we're not going to let anybody touch. We're not going to let anybody touch our ballots because that might show that somebody did something wrong. A forensic audit or digital audit could now be done, whereas back in the old days, when you just got a shot of whiskey and voted three or four times, you can't be done that way. Is it true that the counting centers, the machines, they were on Wi-Fi and one person upstairs in the hotel room could switch votes as easy as adding a column number to an Excel spreadsheet? So let me say this from a forensic certification perspective. First of all, Krebs' statement that this was the most secure election ever was complete nonsense. You know, he's not a cybersecurity expert, per se. He's a lawyer. But that doesn't mean he wasn't being advised by people that were telling him that it was okay. But but clearly the the fact of the matter, and I enter testimony and Phil Flynn's case about this, the the technology that's being used to support these election systems from the tabulators to the election management systems is old technology. It's not secure. It's using system-to-system communication links that are extremely vulnerable to hacking. We have evidence of a CCP sponsored company inside of our election system that the DOJ's refused to even look at. We you know, and that's something that was found by well, it was actually originally found by true the vote. True the vote gets sued for slander and liable defamation as a result of it. And you know, and then in LA County because of what was construed to be contract fraud, they hired my firm to go to the cyber forensic recovery. And we found significant evidence of Chinese participation in our election system. Now, so but that report was sent as an emergency to the DCSA people that managed security clearance is because most my employees are cleared top secret or above. And so when we have a national intelligence hit, we we report it. So we send it to DCSA. DCSA refers it to the FBI. The FBI says we're not interested basically in DCSA drops it. So so we have a we have a suspected national espionage case inside our elections in 2022 with with significant evidence that should be investigated further. It should be tried adjudicated. But the fact of the matter of the evidence is the evidence. Conic was Conic personnel were communicating with a Chinese company and sending PII data of U.S. citizens to China. And they gave the the server credentials on their own cloud system to the Chinese. What do you what do you think of this? Our election infrastructure is often hosted on the same network. What do you call it when you have a network breach by one of your applications? It's a total loss of control. And that's the state we're in. We're in a total loss of control. Am I saying that there was hacking? Do I know that the Chinese altered our election or some other bad actor? I have no idea. But I do know that my government is responsible for investigating real data and real evidence and they did not. So Page New York, the GBI to you know to the problems in Maricopa and Fulton County to to you know. So we've had four years to fix these things but again couldn't even talk about it without the wrath of Facebook and Twitter. They were even able to ban a clip from the Robin Williams movie Man of the Year that literally spells out acts out you know this software fraud with Jeff Goldblum. So has anything major been done to correct this five months before the next election? So I mean I'll be real plain about it. We've made some progress in getting people to get known false registrations off of the voter list. Some. And I'm not saying that those are not admirable efforts but we've made very little progress in attacking the validity of the certifications which you know the the fact of the matter is a lot of the machines being used are certified at least under a partial waiver by the government. These bureaucrats don't have the authority to waive the legal requirements for certification yet they are and nobody's challenging them. So well are they been challenged but not challenged perhaps in the right way or the judges are just refusing to listen to such a complicated issue. So and then the bigger issue with the voter rolls is how the hell did those voter registrations get on the list to begin with. So you know so what have we cleaned 500,000 voters off? I've seen 200 or more 2,000 I think registered voters in one address in two different apartment buildings so I know what they can do if you don't catch them. In 2005 coming up on 20 years ago now the Carter Baker Commission report came out on federal election reform. absentee ballot security was a big reveal most easy way to cheat basically during covid Pennsylvania allowed it against their constitution in my old state where Steve the producer has still held hostage with a huge governor race has been 100% mail-in with drop boxes for a decade just like Carter Baker advised against. What do you make of the use of mail-ins voluntary or mandatory being used actually more and more as opposed to less and less? So I will say there are three things and four actions. The first is you need to know that only eligible qualified voters are voting whatever that means. U.S. citizen is one requirement in the U.S. Constitution eligibility under state law is the second requirement or the U.S. Constitution and if you don't know whether or not the people are actual eligible voters you don't have control of your voting population. We see that the states are not minding this business of verification at all. The second piece is if you're using mail-in ballots you need to have some mechanism by which you can ascertain that those mail-in ballots are actually getting to the tabulator in their original form by the way which is talked about in the Baker Carter you know risk matrix actually. You don't know whether or not everything that got voted by mail is getting to the tabulator. You don't know that the ballots that are inside the envelope are the original ballots. You don't know whether or not you know people are injecting ballots into the stream. You just have no idea at all. So we would argue that you need to know that only all eligible voters should be allowed to vote and we should go to whatever lengths we can to make sure that happens. Then we need to make sure that the vote that they register on a ballot that the the actual ballot is secured from their hands through the count period actually all the way through auditability. So we need to know that there's some sort of mechanism of assuring that is real. Unless somebody comes up with a technological approach that guarantees that guarantees it we need to go back to mail-in ballot. I mean in person paper ballots mail-in has no provenance control at all which is specifically talked about. And by the way the Carter you know that that report particularly deals with absentee ballots which have a whole level of ass you know adjudication if you will or or checking as to whether or not the person applying was a legitimate person. So whatever protections we had and at that time have completely been dropped where we mail them to everybody. People are getting two three five ballots at home you know they know when they went out they're you know they never get them in the mail because people are harvesting them directly from the mailboxes you know in Pennsylvania using that example in 2020 they have what I think 169,000 don't quote me on the exact number but a large number of ballots that are put on all by Alito but but then we're arguing on the wrong issue. The issue is the executive misconduct in Pennsylvania they should have never been counted under Pennsylvania law. Yeah we're trying to argue about who won. You can't make this stuff up Harry. You know this just in Governor Camp of Georgia appoint state election board chair John Ferever. That's fine probably a great guy but he has worked at Waffle House for over 35 years in risk management. Nothing wrong with Waffle House but not exactly an electronics expert or elections expert. Is this a caliber of official we see across the country running our elections you have to deal with? Actually that's higher than the caliber of most election officials that we do. And I'm not saying there aren't there there aren't great election officials there are there are very knowledgeable election officials there are but there are a lot that don't know I mean we have a poor woman I don't remember where she was from testifying in court that she didn't know the law. Oh I didn't know that that was against the law. Well these are the people administering our system and under coy in 1888 it's a crime for her not to know the law. It makes the certification on her part perjury because most people will know this but federal certification has an accepted definition. The first part we all know that it's accurate. The second part is that it's compliant with the law. So we should have been arguing about non-compliance and election misconduct from the beginning instead of arguing which we keep doing we spend tens of millions of dollars and it's not that I don't think there's problems in the election of Kerry Lake or problems with the Biden Trump election. It's not that I'm saying that before I blow all the conservatives heads apart but the fact of the matter is we need to start with what we see that is black letter law election misconduct and then use that as the leverage point to get in to investigate what happened unfortunately. And of course there's always a deadline for an election and they have a big rush to call the race and you know get to the next inauguration. That's a bit of a misnomer actually and the year 2000 most people don't know this but from the period of the election you know challenged to the decision by the Supreme Court's 45 days. All this stuff with regard to a five-day requirement a ten-day requirement a 30-day requirement and you can't go back after you do the electors you know that's complete nonsense. The Supreme Court did it without even blinking an eye in the year 2000. Borders the the vacation of the of the certification for Gore and replacing it with Bush changes the whole result 45 days after the election but but unfortunately not that I I mean I prayed on the phone with Sidney Powell. I love her. She's a great woman but but you know she she was attacked by you know I suspect an intelligence community. Yeah advised at least. And I watched some pretty sketchy stuff in 2016 and 2020 and again in 2022 with the US Post Office. Have you ever looked at if the mailers we get constantly stuffed in our mailbox with Biden or Trump's picture tip off our mail carriers and post office what kind of voter lives at an address and can toss or I've seen some. It's actually it's actually much worse than that. Some states still have coding on the outside of the ballot that tells you which party you're registered for. It's supposedly you know anonymized by the fact that it's some special code but you know the special code leaks out and then tracked in some states until recently they announced whether it was a Republican ballot or a Democrat ballot or an independent ballot. So so the fact is that it it doesn't take much you know to to believe that anywhere in the process from the mailbox to mailbox anywhere in that process you know someone could be interfering. I mean we see this you know we see this in film in 2020 you know people with stacks of mail-in ballots in the back of their vans sorting them out and you don't even have to know what the guy is voting for right. All I have to do is throw away 30% of all the conservative districts are all the liberal precincts right. You know what precinct they're in you know what the vote by precinct is so just you know take 5% away from that precinct and give it to some other precinct right. I also know Facebook and the company owner use Zuckerbucks to use his algorithm to disenfranchise entire zip codes that vote a certain way you know lose the ballots not bother to pick up the drop boxes in time drop a match in there you know prove throw them in the river that happened in Seattle. So so was the U.S. Postal Service compromised and since it's a union likely compromised by the left. So there's a very serious allegation made in 2020 of the hauling of free filled out ballots through Bethpage New York to Philadelphia and Pittsburgh right. So I know for a fact our DOJ never investigates that but it was this in any meaningful way. So so and that's based on Bill Barr quashing the investigation. So so the you know who is it that's compromised you know is it I don't want to say there's no honest USPS employees I don't want to say there's no honest FBI agents so frankly I think most of the FBI agents are good people but you know there are you don't and something as complicated as an election system you don't have to have too many bad actors to destroy the validity of the environment. And so if you've got one guy on his own freelancing that knows he picks up mail in a conservative or even a liberal district all he does is throws out those ballots when he sees him. Yeah pretty partisan okay I don't wonder why it's pretty amazing. Sure election machine company Dominion Voting had to issue this statement last month as the Puerto Rico State Elections Commission has confirmed the reporting issue that occurred was specific to the generation of unique export files used for Puerto Rico's receipt and disclosure of results system. Puerto Rico is the only Dominion customer that uses this third-party system. The software version that generates the REYDI export is unique to Puerto Rico and is not used in any other Dominion customer jurisdiction. Dominion has identified a solution to the issue and we are working in good faith with Puerto Rico's Election Commission to jointly enhance integration testing practices for the REYDI system in order to ensure there are no future issues. That said by the way after hundreds of discrepancies were discovered following the island's heated primaries in June are the machines worth it because we hear a lot about discrepancies and Argentina processed election results with record breaking speed during its general elections 27 million paper ballots in less than six hours yesterday by hand. Do we need these machines? So the answer is always the same unless you can prove that they're safe unless you go through a process that proves they are safe and proves that they can be used safely they they do not belong in the election system and I would argue that the waiver is being issued by CISA and the practice of using in many cases antiquated technology by the election vendors would prove that they're not safe. I mean the inter-process messaging environment embedded in much of their software is notably vulnerable to hacking doesn't mean it was hacked it just means you can't prove it wasn't hacked the fact that it doesn't have multi-layer security built into the environment that means anything the fact that you can touch it with a with a thumb drive that is not you know of controlled provenance at least not controlled provenance by election officials and you could argue that we've ceded election administration to to the companies but I you know is this legal? I don't know how it could possibly stand the test of legality but that's an issue that needs to be determined but you know in 2020 they're using system software and operating system software that's you know decades old they've modernized pieces of it they've actually actually gone backwards on some pieces of it I'm not just talking about dominion it's yes and yes heart civic dominion you know the smartmatic stuff it just it the system software that's implemented by the administration people iconic and and no ink and and sital and they they all have lapses that would never be tolerated in the intelligence community for anything other than our most important government function which is suffrage and sometimes there are attempts to fix this but Biden said he'll veto the Republican SAVE Act which will make it illegal for non-citizens to vote which already is the law the Dems 100 voted against senator from Tennessee Hagerty's bill making the 2030 census citizens only why do democrats want citizens voting or add non-citizens to the census? so there's a couple of reasons for that but their their assumption first of all is that if they vote they'll tend toward the liberal side you know this is the mass psychology or mob psychology you're talking about if if the benefits come from that side they'll vote for that side that's the assumption the other issue is noise so the more noise that you inject into the system it's the easier it is to get away you know people with airplanes know that you know or warfighters know this what do you do when you get a ping from the enemy radar you dispense your chaff it's noise it's so the signal hides in the noise so the more randomness and chaos you can inject into the voter rolls the more noise and chaos you can inject into the mail and ballot you know or ballot submission process the more noise you can you know or opacity that you inject into the tabulation system the easier it is to affect those results and so this is all an orchestration of for no other reason to make the election system as uncontrollable as possible it's just like that dominion statement you know am i saying anything's untrue with it i don't know to tell you the truth i haven't studied the i mean i do know of the Puerto Rican matter but i don't know of it in detail but it's all a bunch of jargon the average american person reading this would just be stultified by reading that statement it wouldn't mean anything to them does it mean that they're secure does it mean that they are a lot that they're free from the security laps that existed what made it possible for this to be a security problem is what made it possible existent in other fashions and the dominion system i don't know i don't have any indication that there's some sort of comprehensive comprehensive view uh or or wrapper around that security leak uh if you call it a leak uh that says there's no possibility it says it typically an interface that we implemented you know has a security problem is the security problem on the on the dominion side of that interface or was it on the Puerto Rican side or the interface and does it make them susceptible to damage from other types of interfaces irrespective of the nature of that specific interface and so these are what a cyber security yeah there's just too many questions unanswered and frankly when they said reporting and and closing a poll and being first to to report um so states have been leaving the eric system pretty quickly since 20 23 documents outlined in american oversights new report the campaign to dismantle eric show that officials in the states that left eric used to keep voter rolls up to date it was sold as a way to keep people from voting more than once in different states so an Idaho voter would be caught in washington or Oregon next door but as we saw in Arizona they abused it and drag and drop voters all over the place in the eric database right is that true and is eric on the way out or making a comeback so the the issue that you've got is a fundamental issue and and it's not it's not the structure of the current problems that you have to just concentrate on you have to ask the question fundamentally even philosophically what is allowing this to occur if they didn't do their due diligence on eric sufficient to prevent its abuse what tells you that they're doing the due diligence on the new system that's sufficient to prevent abuse i haven't seen any noticeable affect if you will that is eric specific that shows me that they're addressing the fundamental problem of the introduction of illegal registrations you know and i'm not talking about the registration of illegals i'm talking about registrations that do not meet the letter of the law in the state so forget this state to state thing how much of that do you think there is compared compared to the front we've got a we've got an individual in new york that voted 25 times all in different counties and precincts so so if if you know i don't know that i want to concentrate on eric is and replacement of eric as being the ultimate solution the ultimate solution is one that actually verifies eligibility and we do this every day everybody uses a credit card gets themselves verified every time they use the credit card every time there's a risk assessment done by visa or master card that decides whether or not the transaction that's being articulated and the bank that's holding that credit decides whether or not it's too risky and then we'll cancel you know the transaction it happens you know i travel overseas fairly often when i do it's not uncommon for me to get my credit cards canceled that's because they can't do their verification algorithms but but we have clear evidence that you know that the state ids don't agree with the registration information how is that either the state ids that's supposed to be being used to validate the voter is wrong or the registration is wrong and sometimes both of them are so eric is a replacement of eric isn't going to solve that yeah it's a bad deal we need paper but the founder of linkedin and a friend of george sorros actually owns smartmatic now he's a partisan donor to obama and clinton so that's okay you can do that but he's funding the lawsuit against media companies for calling out voting machines that cost fox a lot of money and maybe tucker karlson in his job he's he's also taking over open society a huge election interfere and behind sorros' secretary of state project this is all public information uh for that you know that's the ones that were the money behind secretary is a state like michigan's jossel and benson who has committed a lot of infractions of the state law there the pack sent 125 million dollars in 2022 we'd call that good old-fashioned phony capitalism again not virtuous when they say sanctity of the vote they imply virtue sacred so the secretary of state for washington just disregarded the citizenship requirement on their ballots on march 7th 2021 president biden signed executive order 14019 titled promoting access to voting that executive order commands the heads of every federal agency to submit to the domestic policy advisor susan rice the one who lied on five different networks after bengazi a plan outlining the steps their agency will take to promote voter registration and voter participation he came out again save as I just said 10 to 20 million new arrivals in the last four years of his watch no other country on earth now or ever would do this how are we going to handle the results of this year's election if we don't know who actually voted and the secretaries of states they're the ones that certify this and they're the ones who are committing the worst infractions so the the state that we're taking on this is that it's a civil right to have a fair open and honest election protected by the us constitution we're basically suing based on the data that we've discovered in 21 states we're suing and select states and the selection criteria is what we have enough money to do to do a plug for donations including in tennessee but but the fact of the matter is this it's really quite simple we have a we have a significant problem and that significant problem is that people are not obeying the existing law that executive order flies in the face of congressional law but you know is anybody challenging i'm that executive order is it being is someone suing an effective way to stop the enforcement of that i mean the fact of the matter is it isn't just about letting everybody vote it's eligible to vote it's also about stopping anybody that is ineligible to vote from voting and so we have to strike a reasonable balance the reasonable balance right now because we have these electronic systems is that that you know people that are unidentifiable need to be we need to secure the system from unidentifiable voters voting and you know okay so we have some undocumented homeless people or undocumented you know immigrants or whatever we want to call them the big fraud that we're in the big mess that we're in right now is not caused by individuals voting at the precincts it's caused by large-scale malice we have to stop the large-scale malice and okay well i hope you can that's the last thing and i'll let you go back to fight in a good fight um 19 states and dc allow illegals to get driver's licenses at the dmv the national voter registration act requires the dmv serve as a simultaneous voter registration application uh just check the uss and box democrats plan this of course allowing illegals to get licenses but block laws requiring proof of us citizenship uh we may not even know really who wins another election in those 19 states and electoral college and even representation in dc from any state with their illegal voters uh right so the official texas form for federal elections does not require proof of citizenship just but yes click button so honor system in an in honorable election system if texas goes blue that's pretty much came over right uh that little checkbox could be the last straw if we thought cheating in 2020 was bad 2024 sounds like it's going to be much worse can we swamp the vote by enough to overcome cheating with illegals and the agencies and the states really going along with it okay so so these are what i say to that question the first statement is we have to vote all of us have to vote i would recommend voting in person because it's less likely that they can destroy a large number of my sides ballots at the at the voting place but that doesn't mean they won't try i mean we have you know unguarded trash bags leaving several large counting centers in 2020 it isn't that those were fraudulent they just weren't following protocol which is designed to protect the election system the second thing is we have to guard against you know what i say is we have to attack the the variants from law everywhere we find it so every tool that they have to cheat or steal or the fraud or election system that we can identify we need to attack it the third thing is at scale any fraud at all is harder at scale than it is at low scale so if they have to get rid of one million ballots that are inconvenient or inject one million ballots to win it's one thing if they have to inject 10 million to win it's a harder thing to do if they have to inject 25 million it'll be a harder thing still so yes overwhelm them hope that that that it's significant enough and enough people have sensed this time around to attack the issue after the election if they do try to inject 25 million votes that we can that we can catch them at it yeah but the problem is quick and educated action the problem is we need to have people that are that are deeply familiar with election law you know attacking these this misconduct and voter turnout has been historically very low so so we live in hope but harry thank you for fighting for us and election integrity we are at the end here so tell everyone where they can go find out more about you and your group and your social media anything they can do to get involved my website or our website we have thousands of volunteers we need your time and treasure just to be frank i mean none of our volunteers are paid our expenses are paid i mean if we if we print things or if we fly to a conference somewhere to make an address that's picked up by the organization but otherwise it's all going for litigation and related litigation expenses but you know to do what we want to do we have 21 scorecards 21 states where we've measured significant misconduct under the law and we would like to sue in as many of them as we can so make a donation you know five dollars is is great five thousand would be greater but but the fact of the matter is if you're hearing this you know even in tennessee people working for election validity or integrity depending on how you view the question anything that you can give us is great our website is unite the number four and then the word freedom dot com unite for freedom dot com the word for is the number four thank you very much for coming on again thank you stu hey guys it's look at a kernel bus patterson former carry the nuclear football and air force pilot and i'm on with steve and i urge you guys to go to the heartland journal dot com podcast what did you think of our guest he kind of blew my mind oh it was wonderful let me get myself up there i think we're um there we go i had a wonderful time listening to that and having um sat in on production on the mill creek view florida podcast we had several individuals who are doing similar work as this gentleman harry and they have they've got the they've got the electronic paper trail down to a tee of everybody but of the voter fraud in florida as well as ever um the other states and quite frankly steve it's both them and republicans and he said this at the very beginning of the show neither group wants to come forward and do anything about it because they both got in there under these conditions and they don't want to change it for those who are coming up after them and so that's right built-in bias for them to not want to change it and we also had his partner uh on um uh mari horik yes also marley marley yeah so all righty then well we had a refreshing time off so about celebrating fourth of july um the number 248 um i did miss everybody uh so let's get into this we got some time for it so clip number one and since this is the last speech that i will give as president i think it's fitting to leave one final thought an observation about a country which i love it was stated best in a letter i received not long ago a man wrote me and said you can go to live in france but you cannot become a Frenchman you can go to live in germany or turkey or japan but you cannot become a german a turk or japanese but anyone from any corner of the of the earth can come to live in america and become an american yes the torch of lady liberty symbolizes our freedom and represents our heritage the compact with our parents our grandparents and our ancestors it is that lady who gives us our great and special place in the world for it's the great life force of each generation of new americans that guarantees that america's triumph shall continue unsurpassed into the next century and beyond other countries may seek to compete with us but in one vital area as a beacon of freedom and opportunity that draws the people of the world no country on earth comes close this i believe is one of the most important sources of america's greatness we lead the world because unique among nations we draw our people our strength from every country and every corner of the world and by doing so we continuously renew and enrich our nation while other countries cling to the stale past here in america we breathe life into dreams we create the future and the world follows us into tomorrow thanks to each wave of new arrivals to this land of opportunity we're a nation forever young forever bursting with energy and new ideas and always on the cutting edge always leading the world to the next frontier so here's great but the problem is is that today people don't come here to be americans to become part of the melting pot the melting pot is what reagan was talking about now people want to come here and wave their flags of their home countries that isn't what reagan was talking about the p l o killed marines can you imagine if they flew policy and flags at cal in the 1960s we played clips from that no so we got a difference of opinion here on what kind of people are coming to this country and how they are assimilating okay this from the firearms industry trade association n s s f tracking crime statistics and more importantly whether or not crime is rising or falling in the united states is getting harder to do that's because nearly a third of american cities are no longer reporting crime statistics to the fbi yes that is true america has a crime reporting problem the marshal project reported that 31 of the 18 000 law enforcement agencies across the u.s failed to report crime data to the fbi's national database after transitioning to a new data collection system according to the latest statistics from the fbi that's a slight improvement from 21 when 40 of the law enforcement agencies didn't report crime data right 5,400 out of 18,000 only down from 7,200 leading up to an election year just 24 of new york's police departments sent their crime rates to the fbi that's a failing grade in anyone's book that includes new york cities police department along with neighboring suffuck nasa and west chester county police just 141 of the 583 new york police agencies reported data in 2022 pennsylvania was worse with just nine percent of police departments reporting crime data to the fbi only 126 of the 1392 police agencies reported their stats missing where pittsburgh allentown in scranton maryland police agencies reported just 30 percent of the time with 65 of the 170 police departments failing to send the fbi crucial crime data department surrounding washing vc which has been plagued by crime didn't submit any data including an arndell county and howard county near valtimore you know it's bad there other surrounding communities including montgomery county and prince george's county submitted just two months of data california came in with just 49 percent less than half of police agencies sending crime stat statistics to the fbi the marshal project reported that 44 states and the district of columbia had higher reporting rates in all of california only 356 of the 721 police agencies in the golden state submitted crime data to the fbi missing from the list reports from los angeles police department los angeles county sheriff's office san francisco san jose oakland river side sacramental county sheriff's office and both the san bardino county sheriff's offices and police department i guess there's no crime illinois crime maybe they don't trust the fbi steve illinois crime data submitted to the fbi in 2022 was only slightly better with 52 percent of the police agencies reporting their 464 of the 885 law enforcement agencies submitted data chicago's police department fully reported but neighboring lake county sheriff's office and dupeage county sheriff's office didn't report any data cook county sheriff's office reported just one month's worth of data new jersey to idyllinois for percentage of law enforcement agencies reporting data at 52 percent just 301 of the 574 law enforcement agencies sent the fbi crime data in 2022 paterson woodbridge edison cliff's trenton and kamden police departments didn't send the fbi any crime data in 2022 the worst was florida which just eight percent of law enforcement agencies reporting their 2022 crime data to the fbi that represented only 49 of the 633 police agencies in the sunshine state hillsborough county sheriff's office orange county sheriff's office and palm beach county's sheriff's office didn't report any crime data to the fbi that year neither did or landos police department or for lotterdales police department wow happiness place on earth disneyland zero crime i guess on crime though state lawmakers are still going soft even proposing a bill earlier this year that would block felony murder charges for anyone under 25 california governor's new sum proposed the 28th amendment to the us constitution that would gut the right of the people to keep and bear arms he's still blaming guns while residents in san francisco and los angeles are being crushed by criminals billinois governor jb prisker signed a law earlier this year to ban the most commonly owned semi-automatic rifles of america the ar-15 blaming guns for crime there that law is being challenged by nssf he's expected to sign a new law banning first amendment protective free speech by banning firearm ads that might be attracted to minors despite the blatant unconstitutional of that idea governor prisker is quick to blame the firearm industry and attack second amendment rights along with first amendment rights criminals though are a different matter he signed a law which was upheld by the illinois supreme court to end cash bail in the land of lincoln critics warn that this puts dangerous and violent criminals back on the streets new jersey's governor phil murphy attempted to throttle fire on sale during the coven 19 pandemic until he was forced by the courts to relent he signed laws to allow frivolous lawsuits against firearm industries for crimes committed by remote third parties that law was challenged by nssf and enjoined while the case is heard so when nbc news reports this the us crime rate is still dropping fbi data shows march 19th 2024 you know it's garbaj why does the public think it's going up there is definitely more disorder in the cities in there were five years ago said one expert people confused disorder and crime by kendelanian oh peepee hoax or kendelanian more on him another day new fbi data confirms previous indications that crime in the us decline significantly in 2023 continuing a post pandemic trend and bellot the lying widespread perception that crime is rising the fourth quarter numbers showed a 13% decline in murder in 2023 from 2022 a 6% decline in reported violent crimes and a 4% decline in reported property crime that based on data from around 13,000 law enforcement agencies policing about 82% of the us population that provided the fbi with data through december none of that's true i just told you so do you believe that i just went over the true lack of numbers but here just take one example this from cnn's of febiana chaparo chris boyette and alicia abraheem ji it took three reporters to figure this out chicago reels from violent holiday weekend more than a hundred shot night 19 fatal ouch all of the victims were boys and men ranging in age from 16 to 36 years old according to police records as of june 24 chicago had seen 1,105 shooting incidents so far this year so go ahead and add 100 to that the city had seen 271 gun deaths as of june 24 so at 19 that's 290 free liberals listening last year over the long holiday weekend 57 people were shot and eight were killed between friday and thursday uh sorry tuesday july 4th according to chicago police steve pop quiz is 57 less than or more than 100 it's less than and by the way steve do you think any of those shootings were done by people who actually had a license to carry a gun no is eight souls less than or more than 19 souls it's less right so not a decline leave your eyes folks the press isn't there to tell you the true story i wish it weren't so nine shot two killed in memphis april 22nd just in one day memphis please say 17 year old male 22 year old male deceased 19 year old male 21 year old male 23 year old male 29 year old male 16 year old female 20 year old female and 20 year old female please say officers found by victims on the scene two were pronounced dead while three others reportedly went to nearby hospitals in critical condition you can get stories like this one and much more from across america at heartlandjournal.com subscribe and i'll deliver them right here inbox for free most of them are happy stories believe it or not with optimism but sometimes you got to tell it like it is because the mainstream media sure won't um stay tuned for my thoughts of the day time for my quotes for the day before i share i'll remind everyone to subscribe to heartlandjournal.com like i just did just go there and give us your email and zip code and we'll deliver news right to your inbox for free these are the times to try men's souls the summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will in this crisis shrink from the service of their country but he that stands it now deserves the love and thanks of man and woman tyranny like hell is not easily conquered yet we have this consolation with us that the harder the conflict the more glorious the triumph thomas pain's common sense causes sensation in early 1776 has explained the need for freedom but it was a second series of pamphlets published on december 19th of that year that inspired a huge american military victory the american crisis a new pamphlet that appeared in the pennsylvania journal four days later like a modern day football coach seeking to inspire his team general george washington had pains words read out loud to his troops at uh mckonky ferry on the delware river pain had written the words during the army's retreat from new york the army's commanders read the words to a force that included john marshall future spring court justice alexander hamilton james manro and erin burr pain would become a controversial figure because of his writings on religion and his role in the french revolution only a handful of people attended his funeral in 1809 president thomas jefferson had permitted pain to return from france in his final years and wrote about the author in 1821 no writer has exceeded pain in easy and familiarity of style in her spicuity of expression happiness of eluducian and elucidation sorry and in simple and unassuming language jefferson said in this he may be compared with dr franklin and indeed his common sense was for a while believed to have been written by dr franklin and published under the borrowed name of pain who had come over with him from england that is it for this episode thank you harry harry for not being a sun sign patriot but reminding us what pain warned tyrony like hell is not easily conquered yet we have this consolation with us that the harder the conflict the more glorious the triumph it's a lot easier to get rid of it when it's just rendering its head and not dug in vote accordingly this is goodbye for now i am your host steve abramal it's editor-in-chief of heartlandjourno.com see you all tomorrow peace in our time and definitely glory to god how can we give god some glory steve take us home with awesome god from michael w smith's album worship forever uh remember i quoted him here you go so oh so any views or opinions represented on the podcast are personal and belongs solely to the creator and do not represent those of people institutions or organizations that the creator may or may not be associated with in a professional or personal capacity unless explicitly stated welcome back to the alan nathan show i'm your guest host today john hayward deputy national security editor every part news former new york mayor rudy juliani was disbarred by a new york court on tuesday and this is about two years three years after he lost his law license in new york and he was disbarred on the grounds that he made false statements about former president donald trump's loss in the two thousand twenty election it's an ignominious end to the legal career of someone who was at one time the most popular mayor in america and arguably one of the most popular mayors ever so it it has been a tough couple of decades for rudy juliani here with us to talk about it is steve abromowitz music and movie producer host of the heartland journals tenisy podcast and an editor at the heartland journal welcome to the show hello hello hey john happy two hundred and forty eight fourth of july yeah yes indeed happy fourth of july to you too it is sad to see what has happened with rudy juliani because 22 23 years ago he was the man of the hour and everyone was just in awe of his performance both as a mayor in general and especially after 9/11 he was america's mayor as people said he had almost transcended party boundaries in people liking him's gruff tough talking street shooting guy who gets things done and now here we are and he's getting disbarred for making false statements about the 2020 election campaign yeah and he earned that title uh when he ripped up the check uh into it back in the saudi radian prince's face after 9/11 because he knew uh that the enemies of this country are uh not our friends and he was also the pioneer of the rico statute which he now finds himself the defendant in a rico case um but let me ask you something john the rico predicate offenses are violation of state statutes against gambling murder kidnapping extortion arson robbery bribery dealing an obscene matter or dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemicals as defined by the controlled substance acts don't think he did any of those did he no this is not the first time that rico has been criticized for being used in a very expansive way against activities it was not intended to be used against and if you you beat rico into shape enough by twisting it you can make it into a weapon against virtually any organized group that you don't like so there there should be some discretion here used against abusing it i was reading the document itself page seven a vote was not cast in the name of the speech heavyweight boxer joe franger during the 2020 election in philadelphia so serious stuff right i mean drugs and obscene matter and whatnot juliani long claim that he dreamed up the idea of using the federal racketeering influence and corruption organization act to target mafia families in the u.s well they turned around on him um you know i was hearing andrew weisman on juliani calling rico charges ridiculous significant legal peril for him juliani that is uh makes me think as a as a master of the russia russia russia and this you know puts me in mind of longstanding criticisms i've had about uh vote fraud now i i am a diligent critic of vote fraud i think there's a lot of it i think the 2020 election was hinky as hell and i think it's ridiculous that we've allowed our voting system to degenerate into this third world chaos on purpose so that things can be done in the dead of night to twist elections around but at the same time i have always been very firm that one should not make allegations one cannot back up especially when it comes to voter fraud because the slightest misstep you do what juliani has used to doing here and you're going to discredit a lot of good people that have done solid work because the system is just chopping at the bit to take any given credit a critic of vote fraud and say i see you're just making it up there is no vote fraud i mean they can't wait to discredit the entire movement but with intemperate statements by anyone and a whole lot of that happened after 2020 a lot of people went off half-cocked you're right he filed for bankruptcy in december because it's very ordered him to pay if something like a hundred forty million dollars to those two x election workers in georgia who he said committed fraud on videotape oops uh you know but that's overcharging just like steve bannon and allocate whatever it is peter novaro all these president men including trump attacked and bankrupted by liberal lawyers and judges like wiseman who's doing i believe revenge on said power juliani at us because of what they did in 2020 and going all the back to her book where she basically outs him when he goes with the department of justice conservative sometimes it's it's a huge that's a big operatic drama conservatives are sometimes accused of being too timid sometimes but there is something to be said for trading very carefully when you know that you are a critic of a system that is huge and powerful and aggressive and will fight back and if they get an opportunity if you hand them a club they're going to hammer a bunch of nails in that club and swing it right back at you which is what happened to a lot of these guys they were overcharged and the charges were were excessive and the penalties were excessive but they did give them the clubs they were beaten with and the good news is that his spokesman Ted Goodman said he's going to appeal the decision so it's very possible that it's not the final chapter yeah and he will get his license back and even dill clinton got his license back after time so yeah and then time does time heals a lot of political wounds of course juliani also is now an older gentleman so he doesn't necessarily have as many decades as a younger man would in order to repair his reputation or affect a political comeback or something of the sort but but he was on top of the world at one point and watching this happen now i can't help but think of the scene in the dark night when it was said that if you live long enough if you hear it for too long you'll live long enough to become the villain and i think that's the kind of thing that happened here you know he he's hung around on the political scene for a long time and he opened himself up to numerous criticisms and eventually somebody hit him in a way that drew blood that's right and he went after the most powerful mafia family in the country so if they're smiling today would totally make sense you know there are 19 defendants in this particular thing we're just talking about rudeie being the one but it it is another chapter in the law fair politicized justice department type of thing where you've got a federal racketeering charge against the state court with election interference and you know all of these things we together which basically takes all the players that were there to defend Donald Trump off the playing board or off the field for an election that's coming up here in November that's why Bannon's in jail i think yeah i think there there's a lot to be criticized about these moves but looking forward another thing i've always thought as a critic of vote fraud is that you really can't retroactively fix a bent election you can only ever really move forward you're never going to overturn a major national election because you show the cracking you know you prove the cracking came out like they said that's just not going to happen what you have to do is act aggressively to make sure the next election is not corrupted and perverted and i don't see enough of that from republic it's honestly i see some but i don't see the massive reform efforts i would like to see to get us back having fair and reasonable elections no you're right i mean the Texas judge had overturned Sidney Powell's disciplinary charges right so there is the hope that the process being the punishment the result is still fair and justified after the end but of course with an election there's a deadline times up sorry you lost whether it was fair or not we'll never know until after the the post mortem is done we're learning now in almost four years later some of the things that went on in Arizona and Georgia that were true but here's Rudy Giuliani who spent that time in court and bankrupted defending exactly that so you know you can indict a ham sandwich they've always said and law fair is a terrible thing i do shows on it all the time but we would hope that the bar association and and the judges that oversee these ethical standards would actually stop weaponizing it and actually act like fair referees but unfortunately no they are biased humans who are flawed and they make bad decisions sometimes i think it's also an example of how if you fight back against intensive law fair even if you win you may very well be bankrupted in the process as they say the process is the punishment and if you're targeted by some of these aggressive lawsuits they'll draw a lot of blood from you even if you're never actually found guilty so something to keep in mind you got to be ready to play defense if you're going up against the system Steve Abramowitz music and movie producer host of the heartland journals Tennessee podcast and heartland journal editor thanks for joining us i'm john hayward sitting in for allen today we'll be right back with more of the allen nathan show