Guest Lisa Finn!
WBCA Podcasts
City Talk with Ken Meyer (Lisa Finn)
(upbeat music) - WBCA radio is proud to present CityTalk, where fascinating conversation is alive and well, with your host, Boston radio veteran, Ken Meyer. - Hello again, everybody. Welcome to a unique edition, I think, of CityTalk. All kinds of books have been written, and the author of one of them is here with us in studio. The book is called Carry On, a story of resilience and redemption. And the author, Lisa Finn, is sitting here with us to discuss a rather unique book. And Lisa, why don't you give us a synopsis of the book, and then we'll go right back to the beginning. - Sure, well, speaking broad strokes, the book is about the unlikely intersection of three lives, three different people of, three people of different ages, cultures, experiences, spiritual beliefs, races, ability levels, and it chronicles what happens at the intersection of those three lives. - All right, let's start with you. You are from Ohio, and you were from a sports family to begin with. - Yes, that's true. I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio in the '70s and '80s. My grandfather was a sports editor for what was the Cleveland press and Cleveland plane dealer. Sports was always the hot topic of conversation around our house. We spent summers going to Indians games and spring trainings in Arizona as our family vacation. Sundays were spent watching the Browns and sports was definitely the focal point. - I can remember going to a wedding in Cleveland, as a matter of fact. And that night we, it was still in municipal stadium, and we bought, we just walked up to the window and wound up with terrific seats where the Yankees in Cleveland, but we had gorgeous seats and it was like an hour before the game. - Yes, well, there are great benefits to living in a town with a losing sports team. You can always get a good ticket. My cousins and I would go home with armfuls of foul balls because there was so many gaps between seats. You are always guaranteed to chase one down. No problems getting player autographs. There are benefits to living in a city with a losing team. I can remember when Rocky Colavito played with Cleveland and got traded to Detroit for Harvey Keene in 1960. I'll never forget that. - My father's still grieving. - And the sports writer whose name I remember very well in Cleveland was Gordon Cabeldick. I don't know why I remember that name, but that name sticks in my head. - Sounds like a hard one to forget. - But I've always liked Cleveland and they have good broadcasters. And it's a great city. Now, it was your dad who tipped you off to these two young gentlemen, one who had no legs and another one who had partial eyesight. But before we get to that, you made two choices to try and get a job, either with ESPN or the CIA. I mean, I can't think of more two different areas of work than that. How did you decide on the, I mean, ESPN, I can understand 'cause I'm a sports fan too, but the CIA. - Yeah, I had graduated from Cornell University in '97 and left with a great experience, but no clear direction as to where I wanted to go and what type of work I wanted to do. My father was quite panicked after spending so much on a degree for me. And as I explored what I might like to do in those days, there was no online job applications. You went through the classified ads in the newspaper on Sundays and I had applied for a production assistant job through ESPN. And then I came across a classified ad for CIA recruitment and I said, oh, just maybe, jokingly, maybe I should do that. And my dad said they would never in a million years take someone like you and he's right. I thought because I was not the bravest, most adventurous child, but I was also, we also had a relationship where if he said I couldn't do something, then that was the first thing I wanted to do. And so I applied and much to both of our surprises, got a phone call inviting me to interview and went through many rounds of interviews for the CIA while I was working at ESPN and sort of trying to figure out if I was going to live a life cheering out loud in sports or life undetected in the CIA. - I'm always interested in job interviews and interview techniques and your interview with ESPN was rather strange to say the least. Tell us about that. - It does seem strange, but it turns out it was perfectly routine for ESPN during that time period. My interview to enter the production field was essentially a 10 question sports trivia quiz. And I'm not, I love sports, I love the passion of them. I love live sporting events, I love playing them, but I'm not a sports trivia buff. And so I very quickly failed that test. I'm not even sure I got one correct. And at the end of it, the interviewer said, "Thank you for coming, if we're interested, "we'll give you a call unless there's anything else "you'd like to say," which was my last chance. And so I said, "Well, there is something I'd like to say." I know I've failed your test, so you likely won't be calling, but what your test doesn't tell you is what type of communication skills I have with my creativity, my people skills, those are things missing in that test. And he just sort of listened, and then he said, "Can you start in two weeks?" - I like that part. - Yeah, it was a little more fiery of a retort by me than I'm conveying right now, but he said in the end that people would spunk do well in this business. And he would give me a chance. And so that's how I got in the door. - Sounds like the line that was in the first Lou Grant show with Mary Tyler Moore, and he said, "You got spunk." - Yeah, something like that. - Something like that. And I thought of that when I read that. I said, "That's the first thing that popped into my head." - It was a very intimidating interview, I have to say. He was a seasoned veteran. There wasn't any small talk or room for grace. - But he started at the bottom, but still had a good time. - Yeah, I loved working there. I always say it kind of felt like a fraternity party, but without alcohol, it was just all sports all the time. Working late nights because that's when sports are happening and people who are in the sports field are just naturally very passionate, very entertaining, very engaged, and I loved it. - All right. You devote one chapter to three stories that you covered. One of them is involving a gentleman who was here in Massachusetts named Travis Roy. But tell us about that story and the other two that you worked on before you got involved with the two gentlemen that you wrote the book about. - Sure, I met Travis Roy in the mid-2000s and I was assigned to do a feature story for Sports Center on the 10-year anniversary of his accident. Most in Boston are familiar with what happened to him, but for those who are not, he was a highly touted prospect, a freshman at Boston University and a hockey player and 11 seconds into his first game. He fell awkwardly, he had first into the boards and was rendered a quadriplegic. So I met him 10 years later when I was assigned to do a commemorative feature and it was lovely. We just struck up a really deep friendship that has continued today. We're coming up on the 25th anniversary of that accident and Travis has demonstrated resilience in the best possible sense of that word, how he's dedicated his life now to raising money, to provide adaptive equipment to other spinal cord injury victims and obviously he wouldn't, he would do anything that was mobility back, but he's making the best of what he has today. - And there were some very moving questions when he was interviewed that you talk about in that chapter as well. - Yeah, I remember that, I don't remember the chapter in detail, but I do remember the interview because he had been interviewed so many times over 10 years, particularly after his accident. And one of the challenges in interviewing people of an interview before is coming up with fresh ways to look at an old story and questions to help them examine their journey in new ways. And I remember, I was working with Tom Rinaldi and his first question to Travis was, when you dream in your sleep, what do you see? And Travis- - I asked that question, is it my real fact? - You have, Travis hadn't. And he was, he was stilled by the question. And then the tears began to stream down his face. And he, I believe he said he had never told anyone this, but when he saw himself in his dreams, he was free. There was no wheelchair. There was just an able bodied person on ice with a stick, doing what he loved to do. - All right, now the two youngsters that you got involved with, your dad tipped you off to this story. - Correct, my dad is an avid sports man and had always been on the lookout for my next great sports story. And in 10 years, he had never successfully found it. But one day in 2009, he was in Cleveland reading the newspaper and called me in Connecticut where I was based and he brought my attention to a photograph in the Cleveland newspaper of two high school wrestling teammates. One of them was visually impaired, legally blind. And on his back in the photograph was his teammate who was a double amputee. He had lost both of his legs when he was struck by a freight train at the age of 11. The two of them attended an impoverished school in Cleveland, Ohio. And because of the lack of consistent wheelchair access in their gym, Dartiagnan, the name of the visually impaired athlete would carry his best friend Leroy on his back to and from their competitions on and off the bus and around wherever they needed to go each day. - I always feel bad when I mean, some of these things happen strictly because of an accident that could have been prevented. And this happened to Leroy. Believe it or not, a rather interesting date of December 7th, 2001. They got hit by a train. - Yes, the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. Yes, Leroy was 11 years old at the time. He was living again in an impoverished community in Akron, Ohio at the time. His father not involved in his life. Mother was working out of town. And young Leroy was just trying to take a shortcut to school. As he walked, he was late. He was walking along some train tracks and sort of describes it as what you experience when you're driving on the highway next to a semi-trailer. How occasionally you've probably all felt the sort of that gravitational pull of the car to one side. And that's what Leroy experienced with the train. Even though it wasn't going terribly fast, he experienced a pull, slipped on the gravel, and his backpack got caught on the passing train. His legs were swept under and were severed by 13 rotations of the wheels before the train had passed over him and left him. Now, you heard about this story from your dad. Tell me about Victor at ESPN. He was your guardian angel, I assume. He was my manager in the features department at ESPN and he's still there now as an executive with Disney Plus. And when I saw this photograph in the newspaper, there was a short article explaining that that afternoon was potentially the last wrestling match of their high school careers. It was sectionals and if they didn't advance, that day would be their last wrestling match. And I was just really gripped by this photograph. I just, something in Leroy's eyes in particular in the photograph made me compelled to want, compelled me to want to find them and to just learn more about who they were and how life had brought them together and what could be learned from them. And normally when we pursue a feature story, there's a lot of planning that goes into it. We pre-interview subjects to see if they're comfortable, would be comfortable on television. We do budgets, we plan logistics. But sometimes, like this, there's an instance where it's now or never. And when I ran into work that morning with the picture and said I really want to find them. And Victor hemmed and hawed and said, what's your gut feeling? And I looked at the photo and I said, Victor, this is the one who cannot see being carried by the one who cannot walk being carried by the one who cannot see. We have never done a story like this before. And he just looked at me and he said, have a nice trip to Cleveland. And I had already packed a bag hoping he would say that. I raced to the airport, got on the next flight and five hours later, walked into their gym as they were warming up for their match. And as I started to approach them, their coach intercepted me. And when I extended my hand to introduce myself, he playfully slapped it away. And he was this larger than life, 300 pound old school coach. And he said, we don't need to exchange pleasantries here. All we need to get clear is that you have been sent by God. So no pressure there, right? Absolutely. Let's get down to business. Briefly went on to explain that every day he walked the track praying for his athletes. And he said, this year, I've been praying hard for these two because they're seniors. And once they graduate, this world's gotten nothing for kids like these. Now, if I remember correctly, it took six months to do this whole project. Correct. It took a long time for both of these kids, as far as I can remember, to gain your trust and your confidence. It took more time than a story subject usually would. Typically, we walk into a place and everyone's thrilled to be on ESPN and we'll sing like a canary. I'm ready any time if you want to. Yeah. And D'Artagnan did. He was much quicker to open up. He was very excited to be on ESPN. He was a gifted wrestler. And it's sort of been waiting all his whole life for his moment to shine. And so it wasn't difficult to forge a relationship with him. But Leroy, the boy had been hit by the train was much harder. He had endured abandonment by his mother after his accident. He had, of course, his trauma. And there were many traumas in his life growing up in the difficult neighborhoods he grew up in. So he wanted absolutely nothing to do with me when I first met him and that was not a position I was used to. It took quite a while of sitting beside him in silence, of letting him know that I was more interested in a friendship with him than using him for television. It took many, many weeks before he would even share a pleasant tree. But I understood because he had experienced so much trauma in his young life that went untreated and unhealed. So many people that he trusted who walked out on him that I could be patient with that process. Well, besides not living in the best neighborhood because the coach took you there the first time that you went, both of these kids did not exactly have a Cinderella lifestyle. No, Dartanian's mother died of a brain aneurysm when he was eight years old. He was the sixth of seven kids on her side of the family. But he had a different father from most of them and went to live with that father after his mother passed. His father battled drug and alcohol addiction and for much of Dartanian's formative years, he was living alone in a crack house. They moved frequently but always to other drug infested areas. His dad battled mightily with those issues. He loved him very much but wasn't able to provide any consistent support for him. He really found his refuge in sports. He found his brotherhood, his family, in his teammates. He found consistency, he found success. He often says if it weren't for sports, he never would have finished high school. Leroy similarly after his accident, his mother was ill-equipped to care for the depth of his needs and abandoned him for long stretches of time, leaving him alone with his younger sister. He also had to move every six months because of evictions. He went to 10 schools in 12 years, never once started in the beginning of a school year, so he suffered many traumas on top of losing his legs. I was just amazed that these two boys had their primary coping mechanism for their dire circumstances and their disabilities was not drugs, it was not gangs, it was not a sense of bitterness or entitlement. Their primary coping mechanism was a friendship and that really stood out to me as special in urban teen culture. It was like their carrying of one another was also a symbol for the care that they shared and that was the story that I wanted to tell. How were they accepted by other students? They were accepted quite well. Dartanian, as I said, was a top athlete in the school and Leroy was very jovial with people. He had learned to put on his mask, which was a big bright smile that assured people nothing was wrong, even though everything was wrong inside. But he made his peers comfortable with him and the two of them were always joking around and singing and they had magnetic personalities within the school. Yet, which I find very strange, Leroy did not want to wear an artificial prosthesis. No, he would have if he could, but one of his amputations is at the hip on the left side. In order to use prosthetic legs, he would need also a hip prosthesis, which we've looked into and had him assessed for. They're very cumbersome to use. They require he would need a few surgeries, a year of intense training on it, and even then you're not really walking with any ease. You're kind of ambling. And so he decided he was more comfortable staying in his chair. The prosthetic legs that you sometimes tried after his accident were sort of the base model that Medicare covers, and they're very uncomfortable for him and often cut into his skin. So it wasn't a realistic option for him. He wished he could use them, but his injuries are such that it doesn't lend themselves. They don't -- prosthetics don't lend themselves easily to it. Six months to film this and put it together, and who came up with the title of carry-on? That was all Tom Rinaldi. It was actually the first sport center feature where a title was going to be necessary. Prior to that, we never named them, but right around this time when we were finishing our edit, I think the sport center's graphics sets had changed, and there were now big plasma screens where you could have bigger introductory images and titles, and so we needed a title. Since I had never had to title something before, I kind of was panicked and Tom said, "Well, I think it's obvious. It's carry-on." And that was before carry-on was sort of trendy to be on everything in gift shops and T-shirts and all of that, and I just looked at their image on top of the others back and thought, "That's it." All right, so after this aired, I mean, these two kids eventually both went to college, but tell us how all that got started. Sure, well, my prayer throughout the filming was that someone would see this who had a big heart and some deep pocket books and could help their plight, help both wanted to go to college. I wanted to get them out of poverty. I wanted to get them eating on a daily basis. I wanted to get them proper medical care. I just wished every day that I was with them that I could throw them in the car and say, "Follow me to a better life." And so Tom and I talked about it and as a tagline to the piece coming out of it, he did something we never make pleas for money at ESPN. That would be unethical, but he just very simply wrote a line that said, "Both boys would like to attend college, but neither have the means to do so." It was just a factual statement. And we thought, "Well, let's see if anyone notices." Well, not only did somebody notice, but a couple thousand people noticed. And from the moment that piece went off the air, I averaged an email about every two minutes for the next week from people so moved by their friendship and wanting to give them the things in life that they needed and deserved. And so very quickly, I had a family friend who was an attorney who helped me set up a trust fund for them, and within a week, $50,000 had come in, which is a generous, wonderful amount of money, but it's still not enough to get two boys through college. And so there were three other viewers who wrote and said that they were in the position to fund their college educations individually on their own, and was I interested in that. So suddenly we went from having nothing, no opportunities, no hope, no funds to having every opportunity and resource at our disposal. And it was literally like their lottery ticket had come in. And did not ESPN ask you to cease and desist at one point? Yes, I did get an email from our legal department saying that I could not collect funds for individuals. There are certainly legitimate ramifications that go with that if I were to do so and funds were misused, then ESPN could be sued. Similarly, if future story subjects found out that money was raised for one person, well then they may want something in exchange for telling their story. There's a lot of ethical reasons why that should not be done that I agree with, but in this case this seemed like the only chance. These two boys were going to have to get out of their environments. And so I talked to Victor, my boss, and was prepared to resign so that I could ethically do what these boys needed. To Victor's credit and his soft heart he just said, "Go take whatever time you need." Our little secret, "Go save the world." And interestingly I've told this story at a conference I once spoke at and a woman came up to me afterwards and she said that she was the person who sent me the email at ESPN from the legal department 10 years ago and she was now in another job at another place. And she chuckled and said, "I'm really glad you didn't listen to me." (laughter) Great for somebody to admit that. I know. All right, but these kids went to college, but it was not an easy road, even in college. I mean, they didn't just sail through. Yeah, it was the wrong road in hindsight. (laughter) Yeah, you know, I went through private school and I know you've thought that you graduated from high school and you are ready for college. I didn't understand the full scope of educational disparity in this country. And so even though Dartanian and Leroy had passed all their standardized tests and had 3.0 grade point averages, they could not manage a single thing at a college level. They failed everything. They didn't know how to manage their schedule. They couldn't hold two nickels together. And when I had them further probed and tested, it turned out that they had eighth grade reading levels and fifth grade math levels. And they had just largely been passed through. They were nice kids. So here we are. I've got them in college. I have this team of supporters behind them and learned that they are woefully unprepared for where we've just gone. And it was a shock to them as well. They thought they graduated from college, they were ready. And that was painful for them. And there was a lot of stubbornness and not understanding the scope of the support that they would need. And it was a lot of years of failure and trial and error before we could get them to a place where they could be self-sufficient. But they both made it true. Well, almost. Okay, we're not through yet. No, Leroy graduated from a video game production school in Arizona in 2013 and has been employed in the video game industry ever since and is really liking that work. That was where he wanted to end up. Dartanian took a longer path, but for good reason. One of the opportunities that came his way after the ESPN story aired was he was contacted by the U.S. Olympic Committee to try the sport of blind judo. I don't want to say it's an easy crossover from wrestling, but there's certainly skills that translate. And so he had the chance to move to Colorado Springs and live in the Olympic Training Center there from 2010 to 2016 when he retired and he trained full-time in the sport of Paralympic judo. Just to differentiate Olympics, able-bodied Paralympics, physical disabilities, special Olympics, more intellectual disabilities. So he trained alongside Olympic athletes. He traveled to the same World Championship events to the London 2012 games to the Rio 2016 games. And as his resilience remarkable self, he earned bronze medals in London and in Rio and became a World Champion in 2014. So he had an amazing, amazing experience, a safe, secure, structured environment in which to grow up and gain the life skills that he was missing and went through to college part-time while he trained. He's now retired from judo and he's in the final year of his sociology degree in Denver. I seem to recall something in the book where he was told he had to win all these matches in England because if he didn't, it would be all over. He had to, that was a qualifying match to get to London. Yeah, he had to, he was still a baby in the sport. And even on the Paralympic side, people had been doing this since childhood and he was starting at the age of 18. But I have never seen a challenge that Dartanian backs down from. And so in two years time, a year and a half, really, he was fighting to qualify for London and needed to win five matches, five or six, five matches in one day and did it. All right. Now, what made you decide to write the book? Well, as I, let's see. In getting Leroy, in helping Leroy and Dartanian become self-sufficient in helping them acquire their missing life skills, deal with their traumas, develop coping mechanisms, navigate education, navigate medical care. The three of us grew so much, both individually and together. When I met them at ESPN and the money came in for them, I thought I was just going to sort of get them off into their new fairy tale lives and wave proudly from afar, and that was it. I didn't know the level of daily involvement that they were going to need to become successful. And they didn't have other adults in their lives who could fill that role. It was kind of me or nobody, and I'm glad it was me, because the three of us, as we worked through these daily challenges, our failures, learning how to navigate adult responsibilities, and customer service calls, the education system, the disability system, relationships, trauma. We really grew so close into what we call this unlikely family. You know, today Leroy calls me mom and Dartanian, and I have a mother-son type of relationship, and they are the two of the greatest blessings I have ever known. And we traveled together quite a bit to speak at corporate events, at community events, at schools that adopt our book, and Leroy and Dartanian began to see that their pasts, the things that they always kept shrouded in shame, were also one of their greatest tools for connection, that if they were vulnerable about their experiences, that they were transparent, that other people that we spoke to were having their sort of #MeToo moments. I thought it was just you who went through these things, but you're actually not alone. And they saw how their journeys inspired other people, and when we had the opportunity to write a book, I quickly said no, because I have great respect for authors who spend their lives writing, and I feel confident with television scripts, but book writing is a whole other form. And Leroy and Dartanian were the ones who encouraged me to give it a try, and I realized if I had spent the last eight or so years pushing them to do hard things as well, pushing them to succeed in areas out of their comfort zone, well, how dare I not try. And they were a great support to me throughout the writing process. We learned our conversations as we rehash their childhoods and the research that I poured into it, helped them fill in blank pieces and their memories, and we again grew even closer. So, yeah, they were the encouragement, and their motivation was to encourage as many people as possible through what they survived, what they've overcome, and who they have become today. Now, it seems to be the trend these days that many authors record their own books. Did you ever realize, when you were writing this book, that you would have this opportunity? I did not. I didn't even think about the audiobook piece of it while I was writing, and when it was at the publisher, was when I got, I mean, when it was being printed, was when I got the email from my publisher saying, okay, let's move on to the next thing. Here's the offer, financial offer, to record the book. And I said, yeah, that's a big no. I'm not doing that. I produce, in television I produce people who are professional narrators, and I know well enough to know, I don't have that voice. So I said, no, you can get a professional narrator to read it. And their next email came with three samples, audiobook samples, of memoirs. One memoir was, two memoirs were recorded by the author, and one was recorded by a narrator. And as I listened to all three, I found that I quickly lost interest in the memoir that was narrated by a professional, because it wasn't the authentic voice of the journey. And that was what started to bring me around to the idea of recording it. Now, after an obvious question, after or during your sessions of recording the book, did you find anything where you said, maybe I should have said this, or maybe I should have said that. I guess what I'm moving up to is, did it give you a closer look at the book, and were you 110% satisfied with what you wrote? That was another reason I didn't want to record it, because I was afraid I would start finding things I wished were different, and it would have been too late at that point to change them. But I have to say, I know I was satisfied with it, and I think what helped my confidence grow about what was on the page was there were many passages where I would read it, and the director was in my ear. I was recording in Boston, but the director was in New York. Oh, wow. And there would be many passages, pages I would read, and I didn't hear anything. He didn't say, okay, that's good, or give me any feedback, or tell me what to do over. And after a long pause, he would say, I'm sorry, I'm crying. And so if I felt like, okay, if this was actually a good test, if I'm able to invoke that type of emotion to someone who I'm not even looking at, he's just listening in New York City, then I think we're going to be okay. How long did it take you to do it? Let's see. I recorded for, I think, five days, and they were maybe four days, and they were ten-hour sessions. Wow. Yeah. Well, the book was ten hours, so they could have been, they could have been in a more session. I think we recorded for about 40 hours. Wow. Yeah. So you would go back and redo stuff. Oh, yeah, there would be multiple reads. I would read a page and the director would say, try using inflection in this place, or build your voice a little more to this point, and then come back down. So he was a great coach. There wasn't a ton I had to redo, but yeah, there were definitely points with multiple takes. I'm definitely interested in this because I read talking books all the time. Yeah. And I've had a chance to interview a couple of talking book readers. So I'm interested in somebody who does it, especially when it's their own book. Yeah, I found the process fascinating. I went from being resistant to turning out that I loved doing it, and the kudos to the director because they have to listen painstakingly to every line and edit them together. So you don't read a whole chapter at once. You'll read a section and then another section. And then the director will marry all those together and listen to it several times. And then I went back a month or so later to do some pickups, just places where I may have trailed off on the last syllable of something, or perhaps I started a section with an inflection that didn't match where the one before it ended. And so he listens for those nuances and you go back for one polishing session to correct those small things. And you have two children of your own? I also have a 10-year-old and an 8-year-old. Our 10-year-old, we also adopted from Cleveland in 2009 the same time, area in which I met Leroy and Dartanian. And then two years later, I gave birth to our daughter. Are you still active in ESPN now? No, I'm not. Or are you just being a full-time mother? Yeah, I got four kids in two years' time of different races, ages, cultures, and ability levels. And life needed to change pretty quickly. Well, I must tell you, I admire you as a human being for what you have done and accomplished with these two young people. I admire you for anyone who can write a book, which you have done. And I admire you for your resilience and being able to read your own book and not having seconds. I just admire you for everything that you have done. And I thank you so much for coming in here and sitting down and doing this. And the name of the book again, which I will let you promote, is... It's Carreon, a story of resilience, redemption, and an unlikely family. Lisa, thank you so much for coming in here. And that will do it for this edition of City Talk. Good night, everybody. Thanks for listening to another great conversation with Ken Meyer and Friends. You can contact Ken by email. He addresses KJ Meyer7@gmail.com. That's KJ-M-E-Y-E-R7@gmail.com. Tune in next time for more conversation with Ken Meyer on City Talk. [MUSIC PLAYING]