Host Willie P talks with Sandras Barnes about “Literation” a program aimed at helping young kids to read more fluently.
WBCA Podcasts
The Village
[music] Hey, Boston, you're in the village with Willie P. We're going to let you in. Of course, we're going to let you in. We have a fantastic guest today, Sandra Barnes. She's here with us in the studio. I'm excited. I am so excited. [music] Come on in. You're in the village with Willie P. We are WBCALP 102.9 FM, Boston Community Radio. And I have to talk to my guest now, Sandra Barnes. Thank you for coming on my show. Thank you for having me. Oh, wonderful. So she's here, and she's going to talk to us about literation. It's a program, and she's going to share a lot of information about her program. So tell us a little bit about your background so that we'll get to know you, because my audience, they want to know who they're talking to. So, share, please. [laughs] Okay. I actually went to school here in Boston, at Boston Public Schools when it was girls' high years ago. And I graduated from high school, went on to college, and not sure about what I wanted to do, but I just felt like I wanted to do something that's going to make a difference in the world. So teaching was what I found what decided to do, and I ended up going to UMass Boston. Gradually. [laughs] And then went on to Leslie's college at the time, and got my master's in counseling education, and decided that at the teaching for a while, that really, really was more interested in teacher education, you know, who's teaching a teacher educator. Right. And then I decided to enter Leslie University, and went through their PhD program, and got my doctorate, and teach them, tell you doors open in amazing ways, not exactly like I had planned. [laughs] But, you know, I was open to wherever it is I was being led to do the kind of work that made a difference. Oh, nice. Very nice. And so, how do you get from there to doing literation? First of all, tell us what literation is, the program literation. Tell us what it is, and who do the programs serve. Well, literation is a literacy program that empower young readers to be more fluent readers. And I actually joined them in September, the end of September, 2023. While I was just, I'm never going to retire, so I can't say I was like re-tired, but was thinking about what's next. Right. And this just literally, this position literally fell into my lap when one of my friends called me to tell me that this job existed and thought that it would be just great for me to do. And because I'm at that point where the issue now is about intergenerational learning. And here it was an opportunity for me to work with seniors who are considered to be coaches. They're called coaches or mentors. And they work with young children in the Boston Public Schools and Framingham Public Schools. And they work with a student for about 30 minutes a day and helping them to become more fluent in their reading. Nice, nice. And they're volunteers from the community. Wow, that's good. That is the most important thing is that a lot of kids get to interact with people that live in their community as well as people that's not. And I think we have reached a point in our culture now where we need more interactions between seniors and young people. And we work with kids in grades one through four. Is there a particular schools that you work out of? Yeah, well, is it Boston Public Schools? Yeah, it's the Boston Public Schools. And we also have a group in the Framingham Public Schools. So there are different schools. And the schools sort of want us to be there. And the schools that I had, the opportunity of working with this year were the Ellis, right up the street, and MLK in Dorchester, and the Winship in Brighton. Those are the three that I work with. But there are others like the Mildred, the Taylor, or the Trotter. So there are a number of schools in Boston where there are coaches. OK, now talk about this program. How do you get seniors involved? And is it a program that goes? They have a sort of a contract with these schools. And it's kindergarten. What grade are they? They're grades one through the first grade through the fourth grade. OK. Because statistics are showing that a lot of our kids are not reading by the time they get to the third grade at the rate that they should be. Right. And so our goal is to really help them to be fluent readers. They're not teaching, but they are supporting what it is that the students are learning in the classroom. So they get that little extra 30 minutes of attention one on one. Yes. And I think kids do need that. They need to basics because I remember when I was doing, I was working and I did jumpstart after I retired. I did retire and I did jumpstart because I hadn't-- I didn't have anything to do. And I said that program came up into mine. And I think for seniors, they discontinued it with seniors. But they still do-- they still have jumpstart. But I thought about it. And I said, I would like to, you know, teach. And I'm telling you, when I grew up, I was not a phonics. I didn't learn phonics. It's very difficult. And I think teachers need to be aware that they need to teach phonics. No matter-- that's the basic because phonics you can spell. My god, my spelling increased teaching kids. I was so shocked. Is that part of their curriculum? Or what part of it? Do they teach the phonics part of that? In the schools, some do. And our program, we focus more than just on phonics, the whole word, looking at the context and the meaning of the word. Oh, good. Good. So that the children are given our test of dibbles, looking at the words that they know. Right. And does it increase their vocabulary? It does. And that's a key because a lot of kids don't hear certain words. You know, they use one word like trash as opposed to garbage. You know, like, what's the difference? Garbage, trash. It's the same thing. It's like, I always think of the cup and saucer thing on the test. You know, people say, what's a saucer? Because I don't-- my mother just used a cup. So she never used a cup and saucer. So it's those things. It is. The interesting thing, too, is we support what the students are learning in the classroom. So our goal is not to teach in because teaching is something that I did teaching teachers to teach. I'm really clear about, you know, what it is that they are doing that. They are coaching. They are mentoring. They are supporting what it is that the children are learning. And it's amazing to see them score, you know, a low numbers at the beginning. And then at the end of the year, you see the increase in the number of words that they are familiar with, that they are now using. Right. And that is important. And there's a segment where that the coaches actually do a read aloud with them because reading aloud to a child is really important. And we have a lot of children that do not hear books being read to them before they enter school. Wow. And so it's like statistics have, you know, have shown that for some children, they come in with a very low vocabulary. But when they are truly educated, not just school, but when they are truly educated, they have vocabulary and increases. Right. So a lot of times what you was referring to before about words and words mean in different things to different people, it's important to point that out to children because, you know, for instance, if we were going to say, if I was going to say to you, it's your birthday, we're going to do what? Now, most likely our kids, kids of color is going to say, we're going to have a party, a hot day, right? Yes. That's what they would say, whereas children from other cultures and I'll expand that vocabulary. So we're going to celebrate. And so it's important to help those children understand the distinction, you know, between the words that mean the same. But there's different ways of expressing oneself. And use of that same words. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I had a kid and jumpstart. You reminded me of that. And the kid, the word was anonymous. And we would clap it out and learn how to spell it. So the kid went home and he said to his parents, well, that's anonymous. And the parent, he goes, and he comes back to class and goes, you know what? My parent didn't even know what that meant. I had to tell them. And I said, oh my God, that is like a teachable moment for me to be able to share a word with a student who really actually uses the word and know exactly what it meant. Yeah. And I'm talking about four-year-olds because we taught four-year-olds. And this is the important thing for me. And this is why it's sort of like I am enjoying working, you know, doing this work because it is about seeing children who are angry, who are frustrated. And sometimes the system just dismissed. It's been problematic. But it is because the child is frustrated because he or she can't read. Right. And it's important. And working with the adults, you know, the seniors, you know, I work with them. And to remind that, I want you to think back to when you learn how to read. How are you feeling? You know, who taught you to read? What got you excited about reading? And for some people, they've never had to think about it because it's just been a natural thing. Reading has always existed in their home. But it's not always true, you know? No, it's not true. My story is I got excited about reading because when I was about five years old, because of her face in October, I didn't go to school. I had to wait another year. And my mom and her sisters and the other women in the neighborhood, after in the morning's wind, they would get up, get the husbands out, and the older children off to school. They would put the ones that were left behind to bed. And then they would go and sit out on the porch. And my bed was right by the window, so I could actually see them. And they would be pulling out these magazines and books. And they would be talking about these. You know, what was they were reading? And I'm like, why are they so excited? I want to know this. So I asked my mother to teach me to read. Oh, nice. I quickly learned my mother was not called to teach. And our neighbor, Mr. Heywood, you know, said, Pearl, give me that girl. And in no time, he taught me my alphabets and how to read. Oh, nice. And what did I do? I used my observation skills. I watched where my mama was hiding her stuff. And then I found those magazines, you know, those old magazines. Yeah. I read those magazines. And today, today, I still remember that bronze body. You know, I'm reading adult magazines. I got to tell you, I've never been interested in children's literature. Because I was like, just really turned on reading because I saw, you know, these women getting really excited. And anything that excites people that makes me, you know, and I want to be a part of it. Right. So there I was learning to read. But when I was in the seventh grade, my great aunt, you know, said to me, yeah, you can read words and you can read the book and you have some understanding. But you don't have comprehension. And she went down this whole line, this stuff that I didn't know and was in the process of teaching me the skills that I really needed, you know, to be a more effective reader. Nice. And I think that's a real, another key to that. Yes. We are WBCA, LP, 102.9 FM Boston Community Radio. And I'm in the village. And Sandra's is in the village. And we are talking about literation. You know, this is how we go. And management of WBCA or the Boston Neighborhood Network. If you would like to express another opinion, you can address your comments to the Boston Neighborhood Network at 3025 Washington Street, Boston Mass, 02119, Attention WBCA, LP, 102.9 FM. If you would like to arrange a time for your own commentary, call WBCA at 617-708-3241 or email us at radio@bnntv.org. Well, you're in the village and I'm excited because I love talking about educating kids. I really think it's so important because I look back at my time and how difficult it was for me because I have certain learning styles. Like everybody learns differently. And I think teachers, it's important for those teachers to tap into those students and how they learn. And I know the seniors are probably picking up on some of these, you know, the techniques and the things that kids, the way kids learn. Some kids are touchy-feely. Some people are comprehending things differently. So I was one of those students. And I had a teacher who, one of my teachers, she just could not teach to me. She just couldn't. And I had a substitute teacher came in. I don't know what he said. The light went off. It's just the way he says that. And I think, I know you being an educator and you have taught. Have you noticed this in your line of teaching? Yes. And teaching teachers, which basically have been young people in middle age. And middle ages, like 45 to 65 is what that group that I taught as well. The thing that I find in literations is a lot of the seniors come in with wisdom and understand that children learn different. And they get, they get to know the child. They work on that relationship building piece. And it's a natural for them. Then there are others who come in with their biases and their thinking and believing things about children that they're not necessarily true. But they do have the ability and the skills to be able to engage them. And then there are others who just never managed to get to that point. But there are ways in which we work with them. And the site team leaders that are at the school really are able to identify who they are. And they give them the support that they need. Oh, yeah, every once in a while, there may be someone that's just still, you know, doesn't get it. But however, what it is that I try to get them to understand is listen to the child. Let the child tell you who he or she is. And they will. And for some children, it takes a little longer. Yes. You know, I am a listener. I observe a lot. So I'm listening as a student. I was looking and listening to see if your words matched your behavior. Again, and if they didn't match, that was a problem, you know. And I think kids do that. That's the opportunity. Yeah, we do that subconsciously. We want, you know, I want someone who can inspire me. Your goal is to get me excited. So we do have some sight team, some sight team leaders that know how to inspire some of their volunteers. And I've seen volunteers and sight team leaders work together to engage a child who is, I don't want to learn because by the time you get to the fourth grade, you know that you can't read. You also know, and this is what I sort of teach the teachers is what they have to learn because the kids know that they can't read. It's not that, you know, that they have been trouble. It's not that they don't know how, I mean, that they can't do it. They can't learn, right? Right. It's that they know that there's something wrong that they cannot master that skill at that moment. So I work with the sight team leaders and with the coaches to help them understand the difference between a child who can't read and a child who won't read back to be able to make that distinction. Yes. And that's not wanting to read means that I got power, I got the control, and that's what I am going to do, but can't means that there is something physiologically wrong, but there is a way that they can be reached. Right. And there are children that have learning difficulties learning differences, and they want to learn, and I guarantee those kids are going to be invested in their learning. And you have someone that you know as a teacher that do not believe in you, will not believe in you, you're not going to do anything. Yes. And what they don't understand, what the child doesn't understand at that point is, they're not hurting that adult because they choose not to do it. They're hurting themselves. Right. That's part of my experience that I had to learn when I moved from Virginia to Boston where, and Virginia, I had all black teachers. I get to Boston public schools. I have white teachers, and it didn't take me long to figure out that they did not care. They did not care. They did not do it. They did not do it, whether I learned or not, the expectations were not high, whereas in Virginia, the expectations were extremely high. And so it took me a while to learn that I needed to be invested in my own education. And as a middle school student in the seventh grade at that time, I was old enough to figure it out. Right. And it's like you said, that one substitute teacher. Yes. And substitute, that's why I don't, that people should not put down substitute teachers. No. Because they bring those gifts. And I bring that new change. I mean, whatever her standard was, it was not working for me. Yeah. It might have worked for the other people, but I swear, whatever he did, or whatever he said, I got straight A's. I was barely passing the class. So I think that it's so important that the teachers really figure out how kids learn and help them to that next level. I know, oh my God, we're so out of time. But information, can you, if they need to get more information, do you have a number that you can give them? Littleration.org is our website. And there is plenty of information that they can get to. Yes. Definitely. Go to the website for more information, for more information, the website. And I'll thank you for coming on. I mean, I'm enjoying this because, and she may be, we may have to hold her for another show and do some conversation with her. But yeah. So thank you, Sondra, for coming on my show. Thank you for having me. It was a joy. I know I'm loving it. I'm loving it. You are W-E-R-W-B-C-A-L-P-102.9 FM Community Radio. And I know it's time to go. It's that time again, you know. I don't know what to say. Is that time again? That's how we roll in the road and the web and the village. I'm going to take you to my show. I'm sorry. You're in the village. It's good to help somebody just because it's the right thing to do. It's good to honor someone that makes an impact in your life or the life of others. Seek and you shall find the village helps to redefine the things that treat you uncommon. It takes the village to make a difference. So be that difference and pass it on till next time. See ya! [Music]