Host Sharon Hinton invites Kimberly Campbell to the show to discuss her education & pageant background, winning Miss MA Petite 2024, suicide and bullying prevention, her award winning community service and mental health initiatives, her job as a therapist, mental health tips, & more!
WBCA Podcasts
Black Teachers Matter
Host Sharon Hinton invites Kimberly Campbell to the show to discuss her education & pageant background, winning Miss MA Petite 2024, suicide and bullying prevention, her award winning community service and mental health initiatives, her job as a therapist, mental health tips, & more!
- Duration:
- 55m
- Broadcast on:
- 16 Jul 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
(upbeat music) - Good evening. I'm your host, Sharon Eaton Hinton, and we're here for another episode of Black Teachers Matter. Here on WBCA LP 102.9 FM in Boston, we're Boston's community radio station, and we're here to talk to an amazing young lady. You and I will both get to know her this evening for almost an hour on Black Teachers Matter. Her name is Kimberly Campbell. Good evening, Kimberly. - Good evening. Thank you for having me. - There you are. Let me talk a little bit more about you. Kimberly Campbell earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in psychology from Grambling State University, and is an active member of, you know, I'm gonna need you a little signature noise. I can't do it 'cause I'm not part of this sorority. So we're gonna, she is an active member of the Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated, and then you go, "Ski!" There you go, okay, for 14 years. See, if I did it, and I'm not a member of this sorority, it'd be disrespectful I can't do it, the Pink and Green. Like, they tried to recruit me at Northeast, but, nah. Anyway, one of the Divine Nine, aka Pink and Green, Kimberly also earned her Masters from Leslie University and Clinical Mental Health Counseling, and a certificate in Introduction to Family Engagement from Harvard University or in Boston, we say, "Havid." 'Cause we don't have any eyes. She's a QPR-certified gatekeeper in suicide prevention awareness, and an advocate for bullying prevention. She's no stranger to pageant world. We're gonna talk about that this evening. She is Miss Massachusetts Pateek 2024, and her modeling history spans more than 10 years. She's the reigning Miss Pateek, Massachusetts 2024, and the former Miss New England Pateek 2023, so we got royalty up in the house. She received the Bronze Presidential Service Certificate for our Community Service Initiatives and graduated from New York Performing Arts Academy. In 2017, she's an actor, singer, and a dancer, and she later went on to compete at the yearly international models and talent where she received the Commercial Print Award and Scholarship. She served as a guest speaker, red carpet host, Pageant Judge, and she's walked in New York Fashion Week, Rhode Island Fashion Week, Boston Caribbean Fashion Week, and Boston Fashion Week, go ahead. But she's also a mental health counselor, and she combines the benefits of therapeutic, I'm gonna see it so you can see her right now. Therapeutic interventions, such as cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT, with self-care principles such as mindfulness, goal-setting, and positive self-talk, and through her initiative, dare to be different. Kimberly believes in the importance of giving back and making a difference in the world around her. She's passionate about mental health awareness and strongly believes that everyone can achieve self-actualization. Miss Quincy Pateek, 2023, and her quote that she sent me, "Men cannot discover oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of this shore." And that's Andre, it's a Gede Andre guide. - Guide. - See, I have to ask, I don't always know, if she's got a Facebook page and an Instagram page, and if you'd like to learn more about her, but Miss Kimberly Kim, or Coco Kim, on one of her social media handles, is here this evening. And thank you so much for being here with us at Black Teachers Matter. You are a teacher and a student, and so you're teaching how to be elegant and how to be rural and how to present and show up in the world. Amen? - Amen. - I feel like I'm in church now. ♪ Can I get an amen ♪ From the quiet, can I get an amen? And Black Teachers Matter. So we are here basically talking about education and teaching and leading, and black people, for black people, but for all people. And so people have asked me, you know, especially when I was in protest lines, "All teachers matter, it's not just black teachers matter, it's all teachers matter." And I say, "Well, all teachers will matter when black teachers matter." So we swatch that right now at the top of the show. That's why we actually are here. I have two shows. This is the radio podcast. Black Teachers Matter here, WBCA, LP102.9. FM in Boston, although you may be listening to us somewhere else. And so that's okay too, but we're live tonight. We're not taking any phone calls because I think we have a lot to talk about. And we're gonna start with Ms. Kimberly Campbell herself. You've got all these degrees and Grambling. Isn't Grambling and HBCU? Is Grambling and HBCU? - Yes, it is an HBCU in Grambling, Louisiana. - Woo hoo, and Louisiana. So you were down south, now you're up south. In Massachusetts, or Massissippi as I call it. And so AKA is one of the divine nine. I went to school and I'm still at school at Northeastern University. And so I was also a faculty advisor to Phi Beta Sigma's. And Blue Phi, which was really deep because it's a fraternity. And I'm not Greek. I mean, I'm Greek in spirit, but I was there for all of the fraternities and sororities, but I was specifically for about eight or nine years, the faculty advisor at Northeastern University for the Phi Beta Sigma's. And I love the Greek life. I love what the Greek life stands for. But I want to talk to you about you. And this journey that you have had, and you're still on, about psychology at Grambling. AKA, which has a story in history, in black history, steeped in black women doing for self. And then many, many people, I mean, I don't think a lot of people actually realize the prominent women of color and black people specifically who are AKA's. We're not gonna rattle it off now. I know you can 'cause you have to. You have to know about the founders and everything. But also Lesley University, your master's in clinical mental health counseling, the family engagement from Harvard. And certified gatekeeper, I'm not sure exactly what it is, but gatekeeper and suicide prevention is a really good friend of mine who is, she started Dee Dee's Crying, Tori Burton, and which is suicide prevention. And so I've had to run my show on another level on the cable TV show on channel six on B&N Media. And you're no stranger to pageants. Now, pageantry, I've had Carrie Mays, who's Ms. Whitman, who also competed for Ms. Massachusetts. And you guys are like a different breed. You're another breed. I think that you have to be extremely strong mentally and really in shape physically and mentally. Your journey started where I met your beautiful daughter, Leilani. And does she know that she's in the presence of a queen? I mean, you've been crowned. So, and can you show your crown? 'Cause I'm about to show you. I mean, I know the headphones kind of got in the way, but you know, you can't really, no, no, no, put it on your head now. Let's see, there you go. That's what I'm talking about. That is beautiful, absolutely gorgeous. And we're gonna go through some of the other things that you brought in my apologies because the headphones don't really accommodate the crown, but you know, crowns are heavy to wear. So tell me, you know, Louisiana, HBCU, you know, Massachusetts, and you've done the educational route. But where did the young princess start on this journey? What made you think you was bad enough to do all of this? Where did that start? - So, it started all in gambling. And the funny thing is when I migrated from Jamaica here to Grambling, 'cause I came here on a partial scholarship. And I was in Grambling, I came here, I said, just wanted to get my education, go home, meet my family proud. And two of my friends, Tricia Cadet and Tisha Lincoln, they both saw me and they said, "Hey, Kim, I think you should do the pageant." 'Cause on the campus of Grambling State University, they were really big on like pageants. There was the Miss Black and Gold, Miss GSU, and then they had the calendar and cover girl pageant. - Oh, wow. - So, when they approached me and they said, I think you should be a part of the system or do one of these pageants, 'cause we would love to have a representative from the Caribbean participate. And I looked at them and I'm like, are you talking to me? Like, I've never walked in heels, I've never done an interview, on stage question, and then to think about performing a talent in front of so many people, it was so scary to me. And I kept booing them off. I said, no, I'm not interested in competing in a pageant. There's so lot of work. Then they came back to me again a few weeks ago and said, Kim, I really do think you should compete. And I said, okay, give me a few months to think about it. So, I took the summer to really think, I looked about what the pageant industry is about, and I said, talent, what would be my talent? And I said, if I was supposed to compete, I would be dancing, and then I thought about what I've never walked in heels before. And I said-- - Wait, wait, wait, roll back. You're in college, you never walked in heels before? - I've never walked in heels, never. - Like never? - Never. - Okay, go ahead. - So, I took the summer off in July, like looked up what pageant she's about, went online, watched videos, and I said, okay, I'm gonna have to be walking in heels, do a talent, and interviewing in an on stage question, I said, okay, I should have that part, don't pop. And then I called her, and I said, hey, I think I want to do it. So, full forge ahead, we got back on campus in August, then I said, hey, I'm gonna do that pageant that you guys want me to do, and they went ahead, they signed me up for the Ms. Black and Gold pageant, that was my first, first pageant. And when I went, I saw all these amazing women on campus, and I was like, I'm just a sophomore. I'm there like junior, seniors, they're like, in the cheerleading team, they're on the Orcheese's company, and they have so much about themselves. And when I went there and I saw the practice and how it was, and I said, Kim, I think you're really doubting yourself right now, you should really be here and just see where you can grow. And when I went into it and started practicing, they worked with me with my on stage questions, interview, practice, and the funny thing about the practice part. I was a resident assistant, so I was in classes, then I came right back in to be an RA, and then from being an RIA, I would get off at work at 11 PM, and then I'd go straight into practicing my talent. I'd be like, one, just three AM in the morning. And what I really found out about myself was I had to really dig deep into myself and say, what is the true purpose of competing? What are you looking forward to what makes you fulfilled? And I find myself really asking myself at that time, like they saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. - Wait, wait, wait, back up. So you got all the way to college. You're Jamaican. I don't know too many insecure Jamaicans, and I'm making a broad stroke about it, but when it comes to the women, and maybe just because of the ones that I've met, that are just so dynamic between my friends and women in my church and my students, they're very proudly very Jamaican, and not necessarily boisterous or prideful, but I can't really remember, maybe it's because of the people that are attracted around me that walk around with their heads down, and even if they're not so secure, you would never know if I'm talking to them. So there was, I gotta bring you back before Grambling, 'cause I think there was something else that kicked in at Grambling, and before people actually saw something in you, or maybe I'm not right, maybe I'm wrong, but maybe from your family or from your neighborhood, your community, your mom, your grandmother, I mean, there was this something else there that any one of them compete in any competitive things or anything like that? - So I might go a little bit forward, but I can talk about it. So when I did a course in Lesley University about my family history, so my dad disclosed to me that before my mom passed away, she wanted to do modeling and pageantries. - See, there you go, there you go. I know it was there, in the beginning, I know it, go ahead. - And the funny thing is, when I looked back, I remembered when I won that pageant, like the first one I won, and I remembered when he called my name, I was like, wait, what, me? And I looked up and I said, "Wow, mom, this one is for you." And that was before I found out that she wanted to be the participant in like, pageantry and modeling before I found out that. So I, for my one that I just kept on going. - See, I knew there was in there. And then went back to an HBCU versus, 'cause you ended up going to Lesley and to Harvard, which is a totally different cultural vibe. It's a totally different support system. So how did you get to Grambling? - So we found out about Grambling because yearly you have colleges and universities who would come down to the Caribbean and Grambling State University visited Jamaica, and they had an advertisement in the paper, and our principal said, "Hey, there's a college "that's coming down. "You guys should print your transcripts and your grades "out and have certain documents to go to the function." So I hurried up, printed out my grades, had certain documents with me. We went, we sat down, we learned about what the college and campus was. And funny thing, my friends always said, growing up and being in high school, I was always foreign-minded. And for me, I really wanted like what my quotes said, like to go beyond the shore. And I always desired like, what is out there? What is beyond just Jamaica and the Caribbean? And I really wanted to explore, especially going into mental health counseling. And I really wanted to expand my genre and like learn more about different cultures and what else I can add to the community of mental health. So I went to the program, I sat down with one of the representatives from Grammings State University. They took my documents, I filled everything out. They said, if I'm qualified and I've checked off all the marks, then I would hear from them in two to three months. And so I filled it out in low and behold, I checked my email and say, "Congratulations, "you've been accepted." I was like, "Whoa." And I was really excited because I have heard about HVC use, but I've never really heard or been there to really experience what it is about in the different cultures. And it was so exciting for me that I really got into an HVC and then I get to experience different cultures from around the world. - So, foreign-minded, that's funny. Tell me about the, so when you came to Louisiana, to the States, did you have any family here? - Nope. - I came, that was my first time on a plane out of Jamaica on my own traveling by myself. And I left at like seven a.m. in the morning and I think I got to Gramminger on five p.m. And when I came off the plane, I said, "What did I sign up for?" (laughing) What did I do? And I started crying and then I called my dad. I'm like, "I wanna go home, I wanna come home right now." And I have so many family and I here in Boston in different states and I chose to feel like a state that I know no one in. So, it was just to me, in a country and it was really country too, but. And I never knew I signed up for that 'cause normally when we do colleges, you do that college tour, get to get an experience of what you're signing up for. So, I just went on in full force and I got here. I was like, "Okay then, let me see if I can book a ticket "and get back home to Jamaica." Wow, so what was, so I'm hearing a theme. First time you're in heels, first time on the plane, first time in the states, you're out in the sticks in the states, you're in the southern state. And then you're taking all these challenges, you challenge yourself to join the pageant. And there's also, you know, I gotta talk about my sister's, my AKA sister's there. So there's, well, actually the whole Greek vibe is that there's a process to become accepted. This like the introductory process and there's a pledging and the whole thing. What made you think that you wanted to be in a sorority and this particular sorority? So it's not until I went to Philadelphia where I have my family there. And I remembered going upstairs and I love books, so I'm always having a book in my hand and I'm always thirsty for like knowledge. Let me see what is new here and I know my aunt, she loves to read. So I went upstairs, I was sitting down and I was like, hmm, pink and green. And I saw this book with leaves and the ivy and I'm like, - Oh, in the pearls? - Yes. (laughs) And I'm a huge flower friend. So when I started, I started skipping through the pages and I read about it and then I said, Auntie, Auntie, Auntie, what is this about? And then she sat down and she gave me the whole history and how she's involved and all my other cousins are involved. - Oh, so you came from a legacy of AKA? - Yes, yes. - So you got recruited. Oh, okay, okay, okay, tell the story. - So she sat down and she told me about the history of our HBCUs and how Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated was founded and how it aligned with my goals and my values 'cause I'm always daring myself to find a new things and-- - That was weird, okay, go ahead, sorry. - Yeah, so I was always daring myself to try new things, go out there and not only just expand my field of vision and knowledge with different people. And then once she told me about the culture and how they're heavy into volunteerism, which I am as well, and I said, wow, I think this is something I'd love to be a part of. So came back on campus and one thing I do before I get involved in anything is to observe the members. I observe to see how the organization operates on a whole as an organization and how the girls operate on their own to see how friendly they are and how active they are in your community. And once I saw that, I fell in love and then I started saying, hey, Kim, you gotta ensure your grades are good 'cause we are big on our GPA and the scholastic achievement. And by the time I did everything in the process, I said, okay, great, I got my, I got a 4.0 here, I got a 4.0 here and I ensured that I was just really prepared 'cause not only was I wanted to be a part of the organization, I was also very active on campus, being a resident assistant, being a student ambassador 'cause I really do believe in my giving back in one time here, not only giving back, but also adding to the qualities of myself as well. - So now, you know, I have to give you a shout out on the founding members 'cause you open it up right about the history of AKA's and for those of you who just tuned in, you're listening to WBCA LP 102.9 FM in Boston, Boston's Community Radio Station. This is another edition of Black Teachers Matter, here on WBCA LP 102.9 FM, your host Sharon Hinton. And my guess is Kimberly Campbell, or I should say queen, Kimberly Campbell because she has her crown and she is the reigning queen, Ms. Massachusetts Batite 2024. I'm gonna ask her about that. Well, Ms. Massachusetts Batite 2024, is that because of your size? 'Cause you're not a kid. I mean, you're not, I don't get it. Is it, you know how they have weight class, like in boxing and stuff like that? They've got lightweight, heavyweight, is that what it is? - So you have to be under the height of five, six. So once you're under the height of five, six, you are all free to compete. There's no each group. It's all the way from pre-teens for the New England system, all the way up. - Well, that clears that up 'cause I definitely, you know, that was interesting. - You're big on the height. And once you're under five, six, you're good. - And how tall are you? - Five, six, to ride at the mark. - Okay, so I guess you could play basketball if you wanted to. - A little bit. - A little bit. And then also it talks about your bio, by the way, which was very thorough. Thank you for sending that to me. You received training, acting, singing, and dancing. Is that before or after you started to compete? - So it was actually during competing. - I did, I was Miss Universal Diamond. And that pageant, when we won it, we all got a partial scholarship to go to New York Performing Arts Academy. And at that time, I lived here in Boston, so I could not pass that opportunity out 'cause I really, everyone normally said, "Oh, is she going to acting?" And I really wanted to refine my modeling skills. So when we won, we got that partial scholarship. So I would always travel from Boston to New York every weekend, we did our acting classes, vocals. And the different genres learned about ballet, hip-hop, and it really refined my skills. And at the end of the year before a program finished, they gave us the opportunity to participate in INT, which is the International Modeling and Talent Agency, where they have different agencies from around, not only in the United States, but from around the world, who compete together to be discovered by talent agencies. - Here and to just further your acting or modeling or singing career. - So I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. I mean, traditionally, people say the models need to be 5.9 and up. You're clearly not 5.9. How does that play out? I mean, 'cause we talked about your insecurities that you overcame in the heels and in the plane and in the HBCU and then being out in the country in Louisiana, no offense, Grambling. But then you also pushing yourself and pushing your boundaries into unknown territory, which is definitely fashion. I mean, fashion is, you can't be fain-hearted and do that. And so you did New York Fashion Week, Rhode Island Fashion Week, Boston Caribbean Fashion Week. I mean, are you collecting for punishment? Are you just love, what is it that you love about walking the runway? - Well, the good thing is being in mental health, 'cause I use like, these are my extracurricular activities, where it's like my way for me to have mindfulness. And for me, when I am out there and just being on the runway, I'm like in a different world, I get to be myself and becoming a mom, I really had to step back away from like the modeling and the acting a little bit. So being on the runway, you get your makeup done, you get your hair done, and it's just a little pampering before you got on the stage. And I just love it, just the energy, the vibe, and just meeting so many different people and trying on these amazing outfits and from everyone. And I notice that for each time I go on the runway or I'm walking, I leave that runway feeling fulfilled and it's not only for my own enjoyment, I get to work and refine my skills as well. - Now, you have your daughter here with you. Did you, what part of your journey did your daughter come along? I know she's in the studio with you today, which is awesome. My daughter grew up in TV in radio studios and she's just so blasey about it. I mean, I've introduced her to elected officials and actors and superstars and stuff and then other people would notice where my daughter was. And it's like, you know your mommy does this, your mommy does that. And she'd look at them like they were nuts and go, she's just mommy. So how does your daughter look at what you're doing? - Wow, she's like, mommy, what are we doing today? Mommy, when is the next parade? Like, mommy, what about that? Are mommy, are we getting dressed? - Wow. - And she came along when I just got into the petite system around 2023 and she's been in like the carnival for, she's been in so many paris, got to make so many different people. And now when I'm at home and I'm practicing, she's like, mommy, you're supposed to be pointing your legs that way, you need to do it over. I was like, oh, she's your critic, she's your coach. - Yep, and she's like my biggest motivator as well, 'cause when she sees me, she's like, oh, mommy, you're the queen and I'm the princess. - Oh, yes, definitely, definitely. - And to see, one thing I've really noticed about her is that she's not shy, like she just wants to go out there, she's like, say, hi, my mommy's the queen and I'm the princess and she has her own little crown and her own little sash as well. And she keeps asking me, mommy, I'm not gonna see the princess says, yes you are, yes you are. And she's so excited to see everyone and she speaks up so much, 'cause when I was at her age, I was really shy and I looked back at myself about what would I have corrected in myself if I became a mom and just to bring her out there, get her to meet new people, 'cause one thing I've noticed and learned while working with Katie's site, really important to build on their self-confidence and their self-esteem really early on. And now she's like, mommy, I wanna stand on the stage and I'm like, mommy, when am I gonna get to be in a pageant? And I said, only when you are ready, 'cause I wanna ensure that you're excited and you wanna be there 'cause you get more fun out of it when you're actually in it. And I always tell people, once you love what you do, it never feels like you're working. - That's right, it's never really, it's not a job, it's just what you love to do and you're getting paid for it. And then you see the, now, your daughter's a hoot man, I love her. She, so she's watching you and it's becoming very normalized for her to be, and she automatically said, well, if you're the queen, I must be the princess, right? And so how does that make you, how do you feel when you see the fruits of your labor being carried on in the next generation and as your daughter? - So, so fulfilled, 'cause I think about before my mom passed, she wanted to do it and now I'm here fulfilling her dreams and to see my daughter look up to me that same way how I am looking up to my mom and how she wanted to fulfill something and just to see her, one, my daughter wanted to be on stage. I, hey, mommy, I wanna be up there just like you. I wanna speak to everyone just like you and to see that passion and that drive come through her. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this for my daughter, she's in the audience. And one thing I really love is if I'm on the stage walking and I listen and she's like, that's my mommy. (laughing) - And you know you have to have your face in a certain way and not react too much and then my head on my, oh, I hear a voice, make me straighten out 'cause I can hear a little voice saying, mommy, you gotta ensure you're pointing your feet and you're holding your head up. (laughing) - That's hilarious. So we're gonna take a short break. If you've just tuned in, you're listening to WBCA 102.9 FM. (upbeat music) Boston's Community Radio Station. I'm Sharon Hinton, the producer and host of Black Teachers Matter. We're gonna be here for another half an hour or so live with Queen Kimberly Campbell, who's got all these degrees and all this experience and all this information. And one of the things I wanna get into is, you know, she's not just a pretty face, but she's got a brain. Good Lord. And we wanna talk about her community service and her giving back to people that are in need. She's got a big heart and a beautiful smile and a big smile and a beautiful daughter. She has experience as a mental health counselor and she combines the benefits of therapeutic interventions, which are important these days when people are losing it. Stay with us. We'll be right back. - Ecologist, social worker, drug expert, sex counselor, substitute parent and friend. Now, those are some of the things teachers have to be before they even get down to teaching. Now, the more you know what it takes to be a teacher these days, the more you realize that it's one of the toughest, most important jobs in the world. So what can you do to thank your teacher? It's simple and learned. - This newspaper's got good news and bad news. The good news is that it's loaded with jobs for accountants and lawyers and nurses and carpenters and every other kind of skilled worker. The bad news is that there isn't a single ad for a school dropout, at least nothing you'd want. The more you know how tough things are for school dropouts, the more you'll see you have no choice. You have to stay in school. Think about it. (gentle music) - I can't believe that some of you guys don't think it's cool to drink and drive. Well, read my lips. Anybody that's going to drive me home has got to be in condition to get me there in one piece. The more you know how I feel about drinking and driving, the more you know that if you drink and drive, I'm not going anywhere with you. But if you happen to be the designated driver, well, you can take me home anytime. (gentle music) No, no, no, no, help me out here. It's a punching bag, right? I mean, it doesn't talk, it doesn't laugh. It sure doesn't give you a hug when you need one. Yet, some of you insist on mistaking your children for it. How's that possible? I mean, when you hit a punching bag, it doesn't cry. (gentle music) - Back in the fifth grade, I had a favorite school past time. Teacher torture for Mrs. Schuldenfry. A left fake vomit on her desk, set off stick bombs at lunch, handed the class hamster light blue, and the thing was, I liked Mrs. Schuldenfry and she liked me, and I learned a lot that year. So, I told the teachers who helped kids learn in spite of themselves, thanks. And Mrs. Schuldenfry, did you find those dead frog parts? (gentle music) - Some guys will try to tell you that hanging out on the street and messing with guns gets you respect. Well, they're wrong, they're dead wrong. Because sooner or later, you're gonna kill someone and you're gonna do time for it. For someone's gonna blow you away because they know you're on it. Don't kid yourself, man. You know what happens to guys who carry guns? Why is that? It's your life we're talking about. Don't let a gun kill your future. (gentle music) So, we've had, unfortunately, we've had some killings in the black community. Welcome back to Black Teachers Matter. Here on WBCA LP 102.9 FM in Boston. I'm your host, Sharon Eaton Hinton, and I don't even know what to say. That people have become so blasey when it gets warm outside, you sort of assume that someone's gonna lose their life and it shouldn't be that way. And so at my church this weekend, this Sunday, we were praying for peace in the world. And so I'm encouraging you, whatever you do, to take care of yourselves, and each other, and keep the peace going. I've got a wonderful guest here. Her name is Kimberly Campbell, but I call it Queen Kimberly Campbell because she actually is a queen. Hello, welcome back, queen. Thank you. Can I sit that crown one more time? 'Cause the crown is like awesome. On the head, yes, yes. You know, it's yours, right? You don't have to give it back, do you? No, I get to keep it. So you don't have to give it to somebody else like passing it on to the next queen? No, they actually get a new crown in class each time. We crown a new queen. And you brought some other stuff that you wanted to show me. I don't know some other paraphernalia. Is this AKA paraphernalia? Is this pageant paraphernalia? What is this? So these are the pageant, all my things that I've worked with, the kids that I've interacted with, in teaching them their mental health awareness. So you just show it up to the camera now, 'cause I can't see it on the table. What are we, ooh, is that a mirror? Mm-hmm. And it says, what is it? Dare to be different. What does that mean? So Dare to be different is a platform that I started, and it's for children and teens where I go in, and I teach them how to build their self-esteem and their self-confidence. And through Dare to be different, it's not just a lecture, and I know how hard it is for parents and even kids or anyone, just to have access to a mental health counselor. So I invest my time like going to the Boys and Girls Club, in different organizations where I go in, and I teach kids and teens like hands-on skills, like therapeutic techniques, and ways to manage your self-esteem and both self-confidence. Now you and I had talked briefly the first time, and the only time I met you before this time, 'cause this is really a meeting, about what that looks like, and whether or not we could actually teach people, I don't know if the word is de-escalate or to be more mindful about what is really happening, because one of the things that I noticed, and you actually had an encounter, I don't know if it was an encounter with you, but you witnessed on your way here to the studio some road rage, right? And Boston is one of those places where people get a little bit of a tizzy. And I think structurally there's some stuff that contributes to that. The streets are smaller, my brothers live in California. And so what we call our expressway, is the size of, both sides expressway is the size of a regular street in California. But we think it's a big deal and it's expressway here, but their freeway has about eight to 10 lanes on each side. And so, although they would drive me kind of crazy when we were out there too, like cutting across four lanes with no blinkers, and 60, 70 miles an hour. So, you know, but I think structurally, when you have a street that is too small, and you've got too many people in it, and it may be hot outside and it's crowded. And in people, you don't know in their little cubicles with the wheels, their little automobiles, what's happening if they're under the influence of something, or some spirit, or something they've smoked drunk or whatever, or maybe something's happened, and they just came from an incident. Mental health-wise, I think that we've been challenged because we're so stressed, and people are so stressed and stretched out in so many different ways. Is that your experience that, I mean, it's always, as long as you have brains and you have a mental capacity, there's mental health, right? So, what does mental health look like? And when do you know that you need help with your mental health? - So, mental health, he has no boundaries. It affects everyone. And what I really learned the most about being in this field is that culturally, like it affects everyone, differently, doesn't matter where your geographical background is or whatever background, and it doesn't only apply to a specific gender, or age, it really does affect everyone. And one thing I really brought me into this field is when I was growing up myself, and how important it is that I needed to speak to someone after my mom passed away and not having that access to a mentor or even a counselor to speak to. And it's not until I came here to the United States that I was able to find someone to help me through my own trauma with handling that healing and moving forward. And to see that mental health, it doesn't mean that you're going to be placed on medication or you're gonna be placed into a facility 'cause there's so much stigma around what mental health is and just having access to someone to speak to site really important. - Now you say that there's no difference in terms of mental health, but there is a stigma in the Black community. I think it's starting to dissipate. And so people are more open to even listen about the possibility of going to a therapist or a psychologist or a psychiatrist or some other trust. And but I remember back in the day where the assumption was you had to be crazy. You had to be crazy in order for you to have to go talk to somebody. So I think there are cultural differences. And some of that is also steeped in the history of what the medical profession has done to people of color in the United States, like the Tuskegee experiments and then eugenics. People think they talk about Hitler and how he was trying to ethnically cleanse all the Jews and everything. But Hitler actually says he learned that from the United States. A lot of people don't really know that and he brought that back to Germany. And he applied it to gypsies and everybody who's non, the perfect the Aryan race, which unfortunately we see in this country now with Nazi symbols and some of the hate groups that are going on. Is there a, and I have heard, I'm not saying I agree with this philosophy of this theory or anything, but I've heard people say that racism and hatred, but racism is like a mental illness. And so, but how do you define what a mental illness really is? How do you know when you need help? - What I describe it as it's any time that you feel like you're feeling really overwhelmed. And when I go out there and I'm speaking to anyone, even with the children and teens, I always lead off with. I'm also a therapist and I also have my own therapist and they're like, why would a therapist need a therapist? You have all the tools and the techniques. You should be healthy. You should be on the cloud nine. And I said, no, 'cause I also get stressed out. I also get overwhelmed your times when I need someone to speak to as well. And being in the field, we also have to have someone to speak to the process, what we heard and if we're feeling burnt out. And when they heard that they're like, wow, oh, so you're not on medication. You're not gonna put you in a room and put you in a straight jacket. And I'm like, no, they wouldn't do that. And that's the part that everyone truly shies away from, why they don't wanna go into it. And there's a huge stigma once you're seeing a therapist or you're automatically insane or something is wrong with you. And then we have that persona that we have to build that strong strength up about. I know I'm hurting inside, but I need to put on a show for everyone. So they do not see that I'm feeling or they know that everything is okay. And that's where I tell everyone, the minute you start seeing, okay, you know you're overwhelmed and now you have to put this facade on and this face on to everyone. See that you're feeling perfect and nothing is wrong. That's when you really and truly need to take a step back into your own world and say, "Hey, maybe I do need help. Maybe I do need to speak to someone." Because over time, I use this example like, if there's a faucet that's broken, you wouldn't put a tape over it. Yes, you can put a tape over it in, whatever is inside is gonna keep dripping, dripping, dripping. Until over time that tape, that's right, it's gonna come right off in that pipe that wasn't fixed in the first place. It's all that water's gonna keep gushing out. That's exactly how mental L is. We keep sweeping everything under the rug. I'm okay, I can handle it. I don't need to tell everyone my business 'cause the minute I tell everyone something, then my business gets healthier. But when you're speaking to a therapist, we are invited by confidentiality, unless there's mention of myself harm to yourself or others, that's when we have to call everyone else in. And I say to everyone, speak to someone. You don't have to go consistently, but once you sign up, just let them know what's going on. And as a counselor, we're really trained to spot certain signs and certain symptoms. There's anxiety, stress, depression, manifests itself in so many ways. Like there's high functioning depression, where the person seems happy, they have the best job, they're making so much money, and they're functioning in a high level, and they'd be here and closed off. They're truly satin inside. And that's one thing that a lot of people really struggle with, is depression, anxiety. And so much we hide that from everyone else, and we keep that from everyone else, 'cause we wanna be the strong person and the stronghold of our family and friends. - So, that I agree with that. And open disclosure, I have dealt with therapists for different things, for different reasons, for different situations that I had to encounter. And I'm wondering, if this isn't too personal, what, how old were you when your mom passed? And how were you, how did you come to terms with it? And at what age was that? And did you need the help of a therapist? Like I asked you, three questions in a short period of time, at the same thing. And if you don't wanna share, don't share, but I'm just really, like my father was murdered when I was 13. And that was at a time when people, we don't need a therapist, we need to keep people out of our family business. But I've come to know that even as a grown adult, there's still things that I had to go to someone else who really didn't have a stake in what I said. But they helped me process it and work through the anger or whatever it was to get to a point where I could handle it. And there have been times and encounters where I did have to go on antidepressants because I felt like I couldn't get out of it. No matter, you know, talking to the therapist or working in breathing and mindfulness and exercise and all this other stuff, they were still like, you got stuck. I mean, I experienced three strokes and I was totally paralyzed. I was totally paralyzed, I couldn't walk, I couldn't talk. And so trying to process that and trying to get back to what normal could possibly look like, I needed more help than the people that loved me that around me could give me 'cause they didn't know and I didn't know. And then I struggled with, well, maybe I need a black therapist. Maybe, you know, maybe it couldn't be, you know, I'm not saying that that's the case. I've had different kinds of therapists. But I'm trying to get to where you got, you've got about 10 minutes. But, you know, when your mother passed, how old were you? And for me, I'm still dealing with my dad who got murdered at 13 and my mother. I'm the oldest child of the oldest child. So I'm the oldest, I'm not that old. And so there's different fees than your life where sometimes you just need help. Is that therapy? Yes. And to answer the question, like my mom passed away when I was nine and I remembered crying and everyone was saying, why are you crying? You don't need to cry. And I was like, okay, this is a natural emotion that I'm experiencing and expressing. And then at nine years old, everyone is telling me to stop crying and keep that in. So that's something I really carried with myself, like keeping everything in, keeping my emotions in and not really letting that out. And I said, and as I grew old, I said something is missing, like I know through death, like through different experiences, you're supposed to express yourself. And this is something when I start, when I sit down with the children and teens and even with any of my clients, like I tell them like grief, there's no ending to that. There's no timeline to that. There's no timeline to healing. And when you go into therapy, there's no such thing as I need to be healed in like five days. I need to get some of my issues as soon as possible. And it is not until I found my therapist and they really had me dig deep into what I was going through and experiencing. And I remembered my first session with my first therapist and I instantly started crying. And I was like, well, I really needed to let all those tears out for me to, in order for me to be a really good therapist or those that are showing up and for my clients, for me to be present. 'Cause in order for me to form that therapeutic bond, I also had to do my own internal healing and journey. - So now when you were doing your own internal healing, but you were nine and as you've had a chance to look back on it, what's the difference in perspective? 'Cause now you're a therapist and you're a professional and you're actually helping other people, other children, what's the approach you would have with a child versus an adult that's dealing with grief and with loss? - So with children, they're really more vulnerable and they just want to have a space where they can truly be themselves. 'Cause they're young, they're going through their different emotions and they're also experiencing the world at large. And I always say to anyone, 'cause you never know who wakes up to a good morning or an I love you or who is coming from a home where there's genuine love and care. And I always see with children and teens and kids just to provide a space where they can be vulnerable and just be themselves. With adults, we are working on that inner child that was wounded when we were growing up. And for adults, it's just to let them know it's okay. Like, deer is healing. You don't have to suffer anymore and just really with adults acknowledging parts of their inner child that was in healed so that they too can heal that space or they can continue on their journey into heart or old, experiencing joy and fulfillment in life. - And then what about adults who, I'm thinking about, say, have been married for a long period of time and then they lose their spouse and then they're alone. Like, they were very close and very married, very close and then they lose that other person. I mean, some people say other half, but it was another whole person. And they won't go to therapy. What can you say to a person that you know you think, you know you pretty much know they need therapy. Is there anything you could say to someone that says, they really prompts them in that way? Other than say, have you thought about talking to someone about that to help you process that? I mean, if they don't want to go, but you know they need it, can you just have to sit back there and just sort of listen to it or how does that work? - So for me, whenever I sit with anyone like a family or a friend who has gone through that experience, I just sit there as a listening ear. 'Cause a lot of us like fear going into therapy because of judgment. And what I really do provide for everyone is just a space. I don't force them like, hey, you need to go to therapy. There isn't something deeper than this that you need to dig into. So you can move on just providing that space, that listening ear and just building that relationship so they can be heard. 'Cause a lot of us want to be heard. We just want someone to sit with us, just listen, no judgment, no fear. And I found that when I've done that a lot more, they say, hey, you're really good at this. Maybe I should go through a therapist 'cause you weren't asking me a lot of questions. You weren't telling me, well, you need to move on. They've passed on. It's time for you to get up and move on and find someone else. And I say to everyone else, it's the same thing with therapy and anything in life with that, or losing a loved one, or even losing a job, like just being there for someone, just giving them that space so they can feel comfortable. And you never know, it truly does open up that window and that door for them to say, hey, maybe I can go to therapy and have someone hear my words, hear my thoughts, what am I going through? And maybe they can give me different therapeutic skills and techniques. And one thing I say, you don't have to be in therapy that long, there's some people that come into it and then they leave it because they're not that ready. And for therapy to actually work, you have to be ready for it. Like you have to be ready to go in, be open-minded to the suggestions that they're giving and whatever that you want to heal in yourself. So you have to be ready in the first place to go into it to receive the information that it's giving to you. - And the other thing, and we've only got five minutes left, so I'm gonna have to call you back. So the friend of mine, I told you about toy burden with TD's crying, there's also a nice a deed where it's sparked and so she has a referral system and this is about suicide prevention. How do you know when someone's serious about attempting, committing, thinking about suicide or should it always seem like it's serious? - So it's always serious. And I always say, you will see the science side, giving away like your favorite items, like locking themselves home, like seeing things that they truly don't want to live anymore or they're not finding fulfillment in life. And I always say there's a number called 988, which is a suicide prevention awareness hotline. Like if you have any concerns, if you have any questions, then if you do see any signs, like you can hand that number to them or really pay close attention, 'cause one thing I've noticed is when we take our eyes off that love one or we've not heard from them, 'cause we tend to say, "Oh, let me walk away from them, "remove or we can give them some space." But space is good, but give them that space while you're present and just listening to them. No more questions or not judging them, just really sitting there with them. And if they wanna sit in silence and there's more in silence than words and just sitting with someone while they're sitting in silence, there's a lot. And they just want you to be there in their presence instead of just having them being judged. - And then how do you process that? Because now you basically have been a dumping ground, 'cause that's what it is, just in your listening to all this heavy, heavy stuff. They couldn't deal with it, so they come and talk to you. And there's no assumption that you know how to deal with it either, so. After you've listened to a person who said all this stuff, then what do you need to do for self-care for yourself? - Well, I always lean on my supervisor, 'cause that's one thing I always go into supervision and with anything. If it's too complicated for me that I hate, I say, "Hey, maybe I do need to check in with my supervisor." And after checking in with my supervisor, I will go for a walk, like as soon as I finish work, I always turn my radio on. And that channel in my brain instantly switches to something fun and fulfilled. And everyone calls me the queen of self-care, because at 8.45 p.m. every day, every night my phone goes on silence. And I'd either read a book, write a candle, or watch some movie, 'cause it is a lot that's coming in. And I always try to not take work with me throughout the entire day until the next day when I wake up and then I turn that channel on and say, "Okay, this is what my client said to me yesterday. Let me do my homework to find if there's any other resources out there that I can bring them to and bring them into as well." - But okay, so you have a supervisor and you're a therapist, but if you're just a regular person and say a relative or a friend comes to you and says, "I'm thinking about harming myself, "I don't see any point in life, "I don't wanna be here anymore." And you sit there and you listen to them, then what do you do? - So besides sitting there and listening to them, I give them a space like I normally just sit with them for a while and then prompt them with a few questions. I say, "Hey, what is going on? "What's happening? "If they don't feel like talking, "I always have like a piece of pen or a paper, "some people like to." - What if they keep saying, "I don't know, I don't know?" - Well, I normally just sit with them 'cause over time they eventually do talk and if they don't wanna talk, I give them a pen and they will like draw a picture or write something and then I start putting the pieces together as a puzzle and that's how I start forming the connections with them and that's what mostly have been happening when they don't feel like talking 'cause they don't want the tears to flow and through pictures or art, they put everything together and I won't talk as well. I'll take the paper, write on it, pass it back and then that verbal becomes something non-dialogue and that's where I dig deeper into what's going on and I say, "Hey, maybe we do need to speak with someone. "Maybe we do need to call that hotline. "If you don't feel comfortable doing it, I can do it for you." And that's what I normally going to doing it with them. - So we are coming down to the last minute. I mean, seriously and I'm gonna have to have you back because one of the questions that I didn't get to ask is when you are there with someone and they're dying and we don't have enough time to even go in there. So if you have like 20 seconds to say something and then we'll wrap it up, what do you think? - So when someone is dying, I just give them that space and anything is there anything that you would like to see or anything that you have not gotten to get off your chest and know that this is the time and you would like for that to be said or done. And I've found out others would speak on the wish they had forgiven their mom, forgiven their dad, forgiven their friend who have done something. And I say speak that out and now you're forgiven. You are free to go and not to bring that with them. So just, yeah. So thank you so much for being here. Queen, Queen, Kimberly, Camo, my God. Love you and for those of you who have just been listening, thank you for being here with us. For those of you who have just been in tune with us, you're listening to Black Teachers Matter here on WBCA LP 102.9 FM. We are Boston's community radio station. Take care of yourselves and each other and hope to see you soon in another episode of Black Teachers Matter. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]