Host Rachel Miselman discusses economics and the way local politicians interact with their constituents.
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Bostonian Rap
- Hello and welcome to Bostonian Wrap. My name is Rachel Meiselman. You are listening to me on WBCALP 102.9 FM Boston. This is Boston's Community Radio Station. We're going to go to a quick disclaimer and then we're gonna come back and unpack the topics of today's show. - The following commentary does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff and management of WBCA or the Boston Neighborhood Network. If you would like to express another opinion, you can address your comments to Boston Neighborhood Network 3025 Washington Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 0211.9. To arrange a time for your own commentary, you can call WBCA at 617-708-3215 or email radio at bnnmedia.org. - Hello and welcome back to Bostonian Wrap. My name again is Rachel Meiselman. So I've said this before. I think that if there's going to be any kind of political commentary, I think it's very important to talk about phenomena. It's very important to study trends, study, look at, observe what's going on socially. Because sooner or later it makes its way into politics. It necessarily makes its way into politics. I now too long ago met some kids. They were probably in their, I'm going to say like early to mid 20s. And my goodness gracious, they had all the answers. They were communist. They were self-styled communist. I don't really know if they know what communism means. I come from a family that, or I come from a family who, they're all the members of which fled communist countries. And it's, there's nothing romantic about communism. Let me just say this. I don't think capitalism is perfect. I've never said it was perfect. And I think that we need to look at the type of capitalism that we want. But I do think that capitalism is the best economic system for our republic. But I, I really have to say that, that there's no, we're not going to reach utopia. But what we want to do is try to create a society that's just and good for the maximum amount of people. And we want to make every effort to be inclusive. And when I say inclusive, I don't mean the left side of inclusive. I, because it's just, it's a word that's bandied about. I really do mean being inclusive of all people. And that means for me not just you know, pulling up a chair at the table, so to speak, but really looking at others as equals. I mean, I think that people deserve, deserve that, that respect. I think that that's something that we need to give to people. Now if people choose to engage in behavior that's ugly and offensive and insulting. And I'm not just, I'm not talking about behavior that we disagree with. I'm talking about behavior that's, that's truly offensive and ugly. Well, then I don't think that we have any, you know, other people have any obligation to accord respect to those individuals. But I think that, you know, just going into it, interacting with someone initially, I think that people are owed, I mean, for the most part respect. And for me, that, that is what inclusivity means. And, you know, again, it's looking at people as equals. I, you know, when I think about inclusivity on the left, how some people on the left at any rate see it, it's including a certain group, or certain groups of people that they say have been systematically, historically marginalized. But these same people who are rooting for these historically oppressed groups, marginalized groups, they only champion the rights of members of those groups if those members agree with what they think. So for me, that, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's bogus. All of it is, it's just bogus. So for me inclusivity is really just, really creating access for the maximum amount of people and bringing people into conversations that are critical. And these conversations, all the participants should be looked at with an equal amount of, I'm gonna go back to that word again, respect. And I think we can achieve that with capitalism, but I think we need to look at, again, the type of capitalism that we want. We're not gonna achieve a utopic society. It's, I don't think that that's possible. I know that's not possible, but we can, we can create a society that is good and just. We can do that. And I'm not saying that the United States isn't good and just country, but right now, I think we've lost our way in a number of respects. And I think it's not about getting back on track. It's about, it's about a reset and it's about, I think to a certain extent, collective soul searching. I think, I think that that's really important. You know, what, what do we want to be known as? What do we want the United States to represent? What, what are our values? What are the pillars upon which our society rests? But I say all that. Is there all of that? To underline that I do think that capitalism is the way to go. I would call for a compassionate capitalism. I remember when I lived in England for a bit, and at the time, Theresa May, well, part of the time that I was there, Theresa May was the leader of the Tories and the Tory party. And she, she extolled this, this, this idea, this concept of compassionate conservatism. And that really made sense to me. And I think of myself as a compassionate conservative. I don't think I've ever labeled myself as such, but I, I, I, I think that that's, that's really what I am. I, I mean, I'm certainly, I'm a conservative. I am a Republican. But I'm also a populist. And, and I believe that compassion is critical, it's essential for, for a society to really be productive and thoughtful. And I think it's necessary for any society to actually make progress, to continue to make progress. So yeah, I'd say I'm a compassionate conservative. But I took that word compassionate and I stuck it to capitalism. And I think that, I think that's, that's what we need to embrace. And I think that there's room enough for everybody. I think there's room enough for different currents of thought that may say that, okay, compassionate capitalism is, sounds like a pretty enough idea, but I have more socialist ideas or I have more communist ideas or I have more libertarian ideas. The idea is not to shut down people who have other, economic ideals or who have other political ideas because I, you know, named, you know, some, some isms. So just big that, that, that are both applicable to economics and politics and then of course, libertarianism, libertarianism, that's, that's also, it means applicable to economics and to politics in general. And I think that really that's, that's the way for us to go. And I think actually, I think that's what we had. I think that's what we had for a period of time. And we've just, I don't know, we've just really gone off the rails in another direction. And it hasn't been beneficial to too many people. But again, I say all this to, to really stress that communism isn't the way. But what was interesting in the conversation I had is that this kid is, you know, waving a communist flag and he was wearing a red t-shirt that said socialism. So I made a comment about that and he said, "Well, we can't just go from what we have to communism. "There has to be a transition." And that's what socialism is. And I, I really appreciated his honesty because that's what it's about. It's, the end goal is not socialism, it's, it's communism. I mean, it's alarming to me again, someone who comes from a family, the members of which fled communist countries. My family was horribly persecuted in the countries that we came from. And most of them were, they were red, they were red. I can't stress this enough. I can't emphasize this, this fact enough. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Communism isn't this rosy romantic ideal. It's maybe an ideal for some, but many people have died because of communism. Many people have been persecuted because of communism. Many people have greatly suffered because of communism. Communism is not kind. It's not thoughtful. It's not about progress. It's about using the collective as an excuse to crush the individual. I think that's probably the best way to put it. And socialism, it's just to kind of, it's, it's, right, it's to prepare us for communism. It's to, it is that segue. It's to, well, the idea is for us to become acclimated to certain concepts, certain ideals, certain currents of thought, certain activities, behaviors, stances because the kid was absolutely right. We can't go from capitalism to communism. There has to be a bridge. But I also, you know, take away from the conversation I had with this kid. Well, there, again, there were actually two of them. It was like a guy and a girl. I found he was a little bit more likable, but the girl was, I mean, she just, you couldn't tell her anything. She had all the answers. And I don't understand people who want to make a difference, who stand up as a leader, but they're not willing to listen. I don't understand that. And I don't understand how, I mean, I guess I'm thinking I'm hoping I wasn't as obnoxious as that when I was her age, but, you know, and I don't, I don't want to, I don't even really want to put it down to age because there's some people, you know, who are in their early 20s or maybe even late teens, you know, and they, he, you know, they're not arrogant. They don't think they know it all. They don't think that they can do anything they want at any time they want any how, you know, in any which way they want. So I don't want to, you know, disparage people who are younger than I or maybe even much younger than I. I don't want to say that, but I do think that with a certain age group, you know, I think in the 20s, I think that, you know, I think there is, especially now in the United States at the least, I think that there's this tendency, I think more than ever to, you know, to kind of believe that, well, I have all the answers. And I do think that maybe I have that, that I did to a certain extent. Certainly, that kind of mentality was knocked out of me when I went to live abroad. It was, it was very humbling and it was, it was, I think, one of the best decisions I've ever made. But, you know, back to, to these two, I just kind of came away from this. You know, beyond the fact that they had all the answers and they just didn't want to engage. And they, you know, they were, they were militants. They were radicals, they were militants. But I think that also, we don't have people who are conservative doing that. And I don't want people to think that, you know, these people who walk around in March and do a Nazi salute and have their faces covered, those people are not conservative. They are, you know, they're on, I guess, they're situated on the right. But, I mean, they're no less militant and radical than, you know, these two that I just described. I mean, they're radical people on both sides of the political spectrum. I would like to see more people in the political right, who are responsible, you know, have something to say, offer counterpoints to people who are running around talking about communism and socialism. Because, I mean, honestly, I am going to say something. I like to think of myself as a reasonable person, but I can understand why so many people in this day and age have been seduced by radicals on one side or the other. Because we have a lot of political leaders and they've just utterly failed us. And I think also that a lot of people are not, they don't understand that our politicians are not royalty, they're not rock stars, they're not celebrities, they're servants, they work for us. And I think that that's, and I've said this before, I think that that plays into the blasé attitude, the cavalier attitude that many people have toward engaging actively in what's going on around them. A lot of people think that if they rub shoulders with the right politicians that they're doing their bit and that that's not what it is. It's holding people accountable, it's asking questions. I mean, if you want to rub shoulders, you can, but it's going to people and asking them to help you or the community because they can, because that's their job, it's within their respective purviews. And I think that we, the people, I mean, a lot of people like to talk about we, the people, but we, the people are not doing our part because if we did our part, there would be more political leaders who would do their part. But I am going to say, though, that I'm saying a lot of things and then I'm saying, okay, well, notwithstanding what I just said, and I guess that's kind of like my flag to you listeners, like, okay, this is my takeaway. So here, here's another takeaway. I think that we're less engaged than ever and we need to step up to the plate, we, the people. But I do understand why so many people feel abused, raw, disrespected, ignored, overlooked. These people who jockey for positions of power among these extreme groups, whether it's on the left or the right, they're playing on people's anger, that's what they're doing. I mean, you look at the left. There are a lot of people who are very poor and there are some people who are doing quite well. And you can point to a number of the people who are poor and now we have different degrees, right? It's not just about, oh, well, I can't afford to buy this. There are a lot of people who work in two and three jobs. They have bachelor's degrees, maybe master's degrees. Some of them might even have PhDs and they're poor too, but they're just, they're different degrees, right? We have a lot of people working very hard who have done all the right things and they can't make ends meet. They struggle. They spend a lifetime struggling and then you have people who don't put in any effort whatsoever. And they're living the life of Riley and it's not right. It's not right. And I think that if you have any kind of decency, if you have any kind of concept of right and wrong, that just doesn't sit well with you and you say to yourself, how can that be? How can that be? How can we have a situation where people are not working and they're having positions and money and accolades thrown at them and then you have people who are just working so very hard and they don't have anything to show for it. And so when someone comes along and says, well, we need to take on these fat cats. These fat cats, right? So that's what Shirley Chisholm talked about, but Shirley Chisholm wasn't a communist. Shirley Chisholm wasn't a socialist, but you see people who are actually the real deal. People like Shirley Chisholm, one of my heroes, by the way, and people are adopting her rhetoric without always fully acknowledging her, crediting her, and certainly rarely understanding what she meant because I do, I'm conservative, but I do think it's wrong that there are people who don't do anything but bind, bow and scrape, bend, bow and scrape to the right people, air quotes, and for that, they get rewarded for their loyalty. They get rewarded with jobs and positions and accolades, as I just said, that they don't deserve. And that, quite frankly, they don't even appreciate because they didn't earn them. And so this idea of taking on these people who are handing out things that should be earned, but instead they're handing these things that should be earned out as if they were party favors, I understand the urge, the desire to take these people on. I understand wanting to hit them in the pocketbook. I get all of that. But socialism and certainly not communism, it's just not the way. But it's very seductive. The idea is that it's not all the good, all the resources, the access to all these desirable things. We're gonna distribute that. Doesn't that sound great? It does sound good. And I myself, for so long, I started calling my, I mean, for so long, rather, I've been calling myself a quality of life advocate. I started some time ago before it really became trendy. Now you got all these different people saying, "Oh, yeah, it's a quality of life issue. "Well, I'm a quality of life advocate." And I thought about it recently and I said to myself, "You know what? "I don't think I'm really quality of life advocate." It's about access. That's what it comes down to. Because the more someone has access to the resources and knowledge and the information, the better someone can live or at the least, the better someone can navigate his or her challenges or difficulties. That's really what I wanna work on. Access and expanding it to the match. Some of them amount of people. So I get why communism and socialism sound so attractive to so many people. But what people don't understand is socialism and communism, it's about, you still have people involved with both socialism and communism, it's about power. It's about controlling people in a different way. And it's about people living and thinking in a different way. But individually, certainly, but even collectively, neither socialism nor communism, (sighs) ever really manages to be something that you could call humane. Really, again, I mean, I'm more than happy to sit down and talk to somebody about where my family, some of the countries, my family, members of my family have come from. It's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it has nothing to do with, you know, what's rosy and what's ideal and what's just and what's right, it's very harsh. And it's actually, I consider communism in particular scary, I do, I really, really do. But then let's look at the right. And when you think about the right, you say, "Huh, well, what do they have to offer?" Well, people are tired of not being hard. And I think there was a period for a while people who are now, well, radical. I think that, you know, you could have heard them say, "Yeah, sure, absolutely." You know, equal rights for everybody. But over time, they started feeling left out because all those talk about equal rights, it never seemed to extend to them, the conversations, the efforts, the undertakings, the endeavors. People began to get scared at the same time, or they had been scared for a while because they were afraid of being called racist. They were afraid of being called intolerant. They were afraid of being considered cavemen-like. Because although we're not a class-based society, although we've become more so than we have been in the past, still, there is this idea, this concept that if you're educated, that if you're enlightened, that if you belong to the desirables, the people who that make the difference, the people that are good, you're going to embrace views that at the least lean towards socialism, then along came someone like Donald Trump. And people got to understand, if you were born in a certain era, in a certain point in time, and if you've got a lot of money, you're going to act. You think that Donald Trump is the only one who talks like that? Donald Trump is unique. Don't misunderstand me. But I think that there are a number of people that were born at a time when, I think collectively, we were a lot more forthright. And I certainly think that when you have money, when you have resources, you do act in a certain way. It doesn't make you a bad person, but there is a difference. When you don't have to worry about pleasing the man, if you don't have to worry about working for the man, if you are your own boss and you are successful, it's very different than working for someone and punching a clock, punching in at like eight or nine, and punching out at five or six. It really truly is. But yeah, along came Donald Trump, and I'm never going to get tired of saying this. People were like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Did he just say that? Oh my God, he really did. I've been wanting to say that for the longest time. But yeah, yeah, you can say it. Of course you can say it. Why can't you say it? Heck, I'm going to say it. And it was just this, it was this process, right? Donald Trump reminded people that you can speak up for yourself. If you're a white person, it's okay to be proud of being white. We're not talking about thinking that you're better than other people. Of course not. But we're talking about everybody feeling pride in who and what they are. Whatever uniform that God has given us, we should be able to take pride in it. Whatever our origin is, whether we're male, female, yes, there are only two genders. Male, female, whether we come from this country or that country, we worship this God or that God or those gods. We all have the right to be proud of who we are. And we deserve respect for, we all do for contributions that our respective groups have made to all of humanity. I mean, obviously there are some people who support Trump, but that's not Trump's fault. It really isn't. And we can talk all about that. That's a whole show unto itself or several shows. But I think that you have some extremists that have been attracted to Trump because they can say what they want. They rediscovered freedom of speech. So many people have been cowed by the other side, by the loudest voices in the room that happened to belong to the other side of the aisle. And people are rediscovering their voices. And so people, again, people want to be proud of who they are. I think this is a very human thing. I think it's a very universal thing. I think it transcends politics. It transcends ethnicity. It transcends nationality. It transcends economic class. People want to have pride. People want to have dignity. People don't want to be told that they're lesser than somebody else, that they're not as good as somebody else, that they're innately bad. No one wants to hear that. No one wants to believe that about himself or herself. And so Donald Trump coming along, it was like a revolution. Donald Trump as a political figure, it's been a true revolution. Of course, you have some people on the right, though, who go much further. They're going to be proud, but it's not really pride. It's a bigotry. It's I'm better than you. And for you to even be someone who is worthy of sitting next to me, someone who's worthy of working in the same pool as I am, someone who is deserving of the same opportunities as I am, you have to be like me. But you can't be like me because I'm better than you. I have this color, I have this ethnicity, or I pray to this God, or I say Christ is king. Of course, there's nothing wrong with saying Christ is king. If someone is Christian, you believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior. And I can understand why someone would say that Christ is king. But that phrase has been used by people that at the end of the day are not very Christian at all. But they want to gaslight you, and it's this idea that in the name of the God whom they clearly know nothing about, they're better than you. And they have the right to spew hatred and be mean and persecute and mock and deride and try to make others suffer. And so that's what the right offers. So the left offers free candy for everybody. And the right offers, and I'm talking about the extremes now on either side, and it offers, it gives you, it gives you a spine, a pseudo spine. And it's sad because we just, we need more people who are reasonable, and they might be conservative, they might be liberal, they might be somewhere in between. They might be reasonable people that really understand what's going on and that are able to connect with people on a very human level. What we're going to do now is we're going to go to a quick break, quick break. And when we come back, we're going to continue with this theme a little bit, this whole idea, you know, the kind of society that we want and what we currently have and, you know, what needs to be done to change course. But I am going to slip in another topic as I sometimes, as I often do, but it won't be entirely unrelated. But let's go to that quick, quick break. I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me. Carved my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling, the limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative rocks, rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at TaylorPaperSilling.org Brought to you by opportunity at work and the Ad Council. The impact of a meal goes well beyond feeding our bodies, because when people don't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, they can truly thrive, like Marta. And now we'll hear from our class, valedictorian, who, with our hard work, never ceases to amaze us. Please welcome Marta Moreno. And Alex. Hey, Alex. How did the interview go? I did it. I got the job. I can't believe it. I knew it. Let's meet up later to celebrate. And Diego. Mom, I got first place at the Science Fair with my volcano project. That's amazing, sweetie. Congratulations. Because when people are fed, futures are nourished, and everyone deserves to live a full life. Join the movement to end hunger at feedingamerica.org/actnow. Feedingamerica.org/actnow. A public service announcement brought to you by Feeding America and the Ad Council. Hello, and welcome back to Bostonian Wrap. You have been listening to me, Rachel Meiselman, on WBCA LP, 102.9 FM Boston. This is Boston's community radio station. So before we went on break, I was talking about just really the state of things, and I actually understand why people are attracted to the extremist on both sides of the political aisle. But what we need is we need people who are saying whether they're concerned. They don't -- I mean, just moderate -- that term "moderate." That's -- for me, as far as I'm concerned, that's kind of played out. Moderate. You know, Charlie Baker -- oh, he's a moderate. I actually think that Charlie Baker, if you said something he didn't want to hear, he could be pretty tough toward you. I mean, he wasn't very accepting. He isn't very accepting, as far as I'm concerned, of different ideas. I think that sometimes people like Charlie Baker, political figures like him, there's this tendency to really become defensive immediately if someone brings up an idea that runs counter to what they're trying to say or do. And it doesn't have to be an attack. It could be someone just honestly has a different perspective. So let me give -- let me give some concrete examples. When I ran for Congress in 2020, I -- with that campaign, I was the first person to call upon Charlie Baker to do something about Methanol Mile. Now, I've said this before. I'll say it again. I could ill-affoid that time to antagonize Republicans, fellow Republicans, because I was very, very much the underdog. All the resources -- I mean, party bylaws would just forget about being broken. They were just thrown out. Rayla Campbell was pushed as the sole candidate. It wasn't even about she was endorsed. It was like -- I was treated as if I literally did not exist. And of course, I did. You know, I was -- I was there. But I -- you know, I -- I called on Charlie Baker to get involved in Methanol Mile. I wasn't trying to embarrass him. I wasn't trying to attack him. The reason why I asked him to get involved is because the people on Methanol Mile, many of them are not from Boston. In fact, a great -- a great percentage of them are not from Boston. Right? So they're from different parts of the state. And then you've got some who are not from the state. So we can't have the mayor of Boston doing the work of the governor. If you have people coming from different parts of the state to this -- to this area in Boston, then what needs to be done is there needs to be a decentralization of services. There needs to be more of a collaboration between the different regions. There needs to be a corporate of efforts for short-term goals and long-term goals. But if Boston is dealing with people coming from different parts of the state and even other states, how -- how is it that the mayor of Boston should be taking care of that? Of course, the governor of Massachusetts needs to get involved. I mean, come on now. But it was considered an attack. And then later on, Charlie Baker actually put together a task force to address Methodomile. And not once did I get from anybody on Team Baker. I never got, like, a nod, like, "Oh, you know, you had a point, you know, and thank you for your advocacy around Methodomile." Nothing. Nothing. Not even, like, you know, a wink or, you know, just kind of like, "All right. You know, you did well." And don't get me wrong. That's not why I did it. I did it because I was trying to address -- I was trying to help address the problem. I was trying to say what I thought needed to be done to find a solution for what goes on down there. And it's horrific. But I still think that it just would have been nice. Common courtesy. Common decency. But nah. No. So after me taking a few lumps, you know, because it was seen as me attacking Charlie. Charlie turns around and then puts together a task force to address Methodomile. So, I mean, what do you want me to say? And then I also got into trouble when I suggested that Charlie Baker take the tee. So I love it because the left actually ran with us. But I was the first person that said Charlie Baker take the tee. And what's interesting is now we're seeing Michelle Wu do just that. And it's interesting to listen to Michelle. And this isn't, like, understand me, I'm not -- this isn't like meant to be like a dig or swipe at Michelle. That's not what this is. I'm just noting, I'm just observing that Michelle is now taking the tee because she wants to see what her constituents have to deal with. The challenges that they encounter taking public transportation, and she just wants, you know, she just wants them to know that she's implicated in their challenges. Maybe not to the same extent as they, of course, are, but that she's not detached. And I actually said all of this. This is why I said Charlie Baker needed to take the tee because when you take the tee, like people will say, "Well, gee, Rachel, you seem to be very well informed about the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority." Or we call it the MBTA, for those of you who are not local, or we might even just say the tee. Well, I'm knowledgeable because I take it every day. If I want to get somewhere, I have limited -- well, I shouldn't say I have limited options, but I don't drive. I never learned tee-hee, so I have to know how to get around. So I have to be able to get around. So I take the tee, or I take a taxi, no Uber and Lyft. I take a taxi, or I walk, or I take the commuter rail. So, you know, depending on where it is, how far I'll take maybe a bus, or, you know, a train, but that's how I get around. And I see what goes wrong, and I see what goes well. And so I understand what a lot of people encounter or have to deal with as they're commuting maybe to work, or school, or both. You know, so these, you know, politicians like Charlie, you know, if you say something they don't want to hear, or you ask questions that they don't want to contemplate, it's, you know, it's an attack. Am I saying Charlie Baker's a horrible person? No, I am not. What I'm saying is Charlie Baker needs to listen to people more, and he needs to not look at every question. As a challenge, or yes, an attack, right? And Charlie Baker's not the only person. Again, I'm not saying he's a bad person, or he's a rotten person. What I'm talking about tonight's show is the need for politicians in general. And as an example, Charlie Baker, they just, they need to listen. They need to listen. That's very, very important. And so that's why I say that, you know, I said, you know, being moderate, that's played out because people, they, they look at labels. Or they look at, you know, the smoke and the mirrors and they just, that's, they just take everything in. They don't bother to peek behind the curtain. But I mean, someone, you know, whether it's Charlie Baker, someone else saying, well, I'm a moderate, hey, look, that doesn't mean that that person has the answers. That doesn't mean that that person is going to be able to connect with the people who feel quite honestly disenfranchised and abused. And I will go as far as to say abuse, because there is, there is a lot of resentment and anger toward the political class. There really is. And we saw that grow during and since the pandemic to kind of end the show on a slightly but not unrelated note. I would say that we need to really commit ourselves to civics. I think that it's not something that should just be in every high school. I think it should be in middle school. And quite honestly, I think that some kind of civics program should be adapted for elementary school. You know, something that obviously is age appropriate, something that is accessible to children, you know, at different ages, because I think that we need to have. This is, and this is another project I want to undertake, but, but for me, it's not going to be just children. It's also adults. It's also adults. I think it's very important. And so I have a few ideas. Along, you know, the lines of kind of really helping to raise citizen engagement, the IQ of voters. And I'm not talking about in terms of intelligence, I'm talking about in terms of knowledge and knowing where to look for information, knowing how to get information, knowing how to read that information, paying attention, being able to listen to what someone says, and then match it up, compare it with what someone is actually doing. It's very important. And so I think that increasingly I'm going to become, I mean, I've always been a big fan of civics. It's certainly a class that I loved in high school, but I think at this stage of my life, and given what I see going on around me, the chaos and the ignorance and, quite frankly, the corruption. And that's a whole -- that's something I could talk about for several shows for several months. I think it's really time to push civics for everybody, not just children, but adults. And I think that we can really, I think, make some headway. But I will stress that it's almost in some ways more important for adults than children. And I'll, you know, another show is I'll touch upon that and expand upon that point. But that's all I have time for today's show. But as always, thank you so much for listening, and I look forward to hanging out with you next time. The preceding commentary does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff and management of WBCA or the Boston Neighborhood Network. If you would like to express another opinion, you can address your comments to Boston Neighborhood Network, 302-5 Washington Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02119. To arrange a time for your own commentary, you can call WBCA at 617-708-3215 or email radio@bnnmedia.org. [BLANK_AUDIO]