Host Ken Meyer interviews former Commissioner for the MA Commision of the Blind Janet LaBreck about her background, her work with the Commission, difficulties of going to college and getting a job whilst being visually impaired, working for the Obama administration, & more!
WBCA Podcasts
City Talk with Ken Meyer (Janet Labreck)
(upbeat music) - WBCA radio is proud to present CityTalk, where fascinating conversation is alive and well. With your host, Boston radio veteran, Ken Meyer. - Hello again, everybody. Welcome to another edition of CityTalk. And we have the former commissioner of the Mass Commission for the Blind here in Boston, who is now somewhere in Georgia. And she is none other than Janet Lebrecht. And Janet, it's great connecting with you after 10 years. - Thank you so much. And thank you for inviting me to your program. I appreciate it very much. - Well, we should tell the audience that we got in contact because my stepson found a copy of a letter that you had written to me, very laudatory about my being inducted into the Mass Broadcasters Hall of Fame. And my counselor at the Mass Commission was a lot smarter than I am and was able to find you. So it's great to hook up with you after all that time. And I still can't thank you enough for all those wonderful things you've said. - Well, no problem at all, they were well deserved. I was so excited to hear the news and I was more than happy to write that letter. Well deserved. - Let's talk about you. I know you were in Massachusetts. Did you grow up in Massachusetts? - I did. I'm a lifelong Massachusetts resident. My family members are all in the western part of Massachusetts, grew up there until the time that I went to Perkins School for the Blind. - I never knew that. Okay, then obvious question. How did you get from Perkins to the Mass Commission? - Well, having been a Perkins student, my goal was always to be able to attend college. So I actually left Perkins. I was at Perkins in the 70s and went back to public school to graduate with my peers in my community and decided that I loved being in that particular area, being in the Boston area and Watertown area and went to college there, went to the University of Massachusetts. And obviously was a client of the Mass Commission for the Blind and received services from them, just as many other citizens of Massachusetts who were blind, received services there and did my college training, got my master's degree and got my first job actually, but what I consider my first really formal professional level job, add the commission for the blind as a client advocate. - How were they about doing your services? I know people that have had problems with the commission. I know I did with the commission in New York State, but I gather with you, there was no problem. - Well, I think that depending on the time period, I think that when I was a client of the commission for the blind attending college, I think that it was a struggle and I can't say it was all attributed to the Mass Commission for the blind because I think that each one of us comes to a place regardless of where we're receiving the services and doors that we're walking through, a lot also has to depend on the individual. And I think at that time, I was not exactly ready, at that time to be as independent as I thought I was and didn't understand all of the, the logistics and the challenges of going to college for the first time, what to expect, what the professors were going to expect from me. So it was a journey, I should say, but it was one that I am so happy that I had the opportunity to go through, both with the commission, but also personally. - I went to college as well in Boston at Graham Junior College, which is no longer in effect or no longer here in effect at that time. I think that would have benefited both of us at the time we were in college. - I agree 100%. My first attempt to attend college was at Fitchburg State. This was prior to my going to the University of Massachusetts, Boston. And at that time, I walked in and I needed some accommodations and they had no clue as to what I was talking about. And I experienced the same thing when I went to UMass Boston when they had their downtown campus in Boston at that time. And I needed, I think I was gonna take an algebra course and I needed a talking calculator and I walked in there and asked about where could I get a talking calculator? Would they have one available that I could borrow for my algebra class? And they didn't know what I was talking about either. And so it was just interesting because again, I think you're right, during that time, it was a very different time period. And we were sort of just taking off with the advances in technology. I was so excited to hear and learn about a talking calculator. And I was able to get one, I wouldn't got one on my own 'cause I couldn't wait for them to learn about what it was and then order it. So I did go and get one on my own. And it paid off, it really was very, very helpful. - Ah, yes, Radio Shack strikes again. - Yes, yes, the sharp, the sharp talking calculator. - Yeah, I mean, I can remember one day in a class getting ready to use a Braille writer. And I'm taking notes and all of a sudden the instructor says, "What are you doing?" And I said, "Well, I'm writing notes." And he said, "With that, meaning my Braille writer." And he said, "Yeah." And I said, "You can't do that." I said, "Why not?" And he said, "Because it disturbs the rest of the class." And it made me think back to when I was in school and we all use Braille writers at the same time and it was no problem. But in college it was a little different story. But I still managed pretty well. I had readers from National Braille Press record books ahead of time. And I gotta tell you, they were some of the worst readers I ever had in my life. But I was also given a grant of $300 to pay for readers to come and read material. Did you do the same thing? - I did have readers and I am so grateful that there were readers available to read because during that time, once again, when you think about that time period, the books weren't always available, depending on the topics that professors chose to use in their classroom. Those books were not always readily available. And then if you needed to make a special request, you would have had to know about that request and have submitted that request many months before the class ever took place in order to get it back in time. And so I'm absolutely grateful for those individuals that were available to read during that time period. - Now, when I went to college, I knew what I wanted to do. I went to a college that specifically specialized in broadcasting. Did you know at that time that what you wanted to do as far as a livelihood was concerned? - I did. You know, I did not know the professional term of vocational rehabilitation counselor. I did not know that term. I did know though that I wanted to work with people. I knew that I had an interest and a passion for it. And I also knew that the things that I was learning, I always wondered about, well, how many other individuals out there who don't have this level of support who don't know about the types of services or now know how to actually access those services. So I always knew what I wanted to do. It didn't get named until I actually became involved with the commission for the bind. - Now, I got a lot of rejections when I got out of college. I went to different radio stations, small ones, big ones and was told, you need experience. And then the obvious question, well, how can I get hired and get experience if nobody's gonna hire me? Did you run into, if any, stumbling blocks when you got up? - Absolutely, I did. And even prior too. And so one of the things that really helped me to look at my own level of both confidence as well as comfort with my own disability and accepting it and learning to reach out and ask for the help when you needed it for being able to access other types of services or printed materials, any of those things that we as individuals who are blind or visually impaired struggle with, I had to learn that lesson. And so my very first job that I ever had was during high school. And so I worked in a kitchen in a hospital in our local community. And I worked in the kitchen. And in that job, I really liked and that was a good start for me. But then another job that I also had after that involved working at a small electronics company in Maldon, Massachusetts. I will never forget the name of it because this was the eye opener for me. This was my moment, you know, when I had to face reality. And the company's name was Starco Electronics. I don't believe they're even in existence anymore. But I went there for a job. And at the job entailed identifying motherboards for televisions during that time. And you had to color code the wires on a motherboard and you had to match them up to the appropriate place with a little chip fit in. And this was a very small company. And so the woman sets me up in this place and she said, let's try you out. And then I realized, oh my God, she didn't tell me that the wires were not the same color. They're all different colors of wires. And you had to match them up to the colors of the slot where the chip fit in. And so I have retinitis pigmentosa. And with retinitis pigmentosa, you have color blindness. And I can still see very well during that time, but I wasn't able to see colors effectively. And so she pulled me aside and she said, honey, can I talk to you? And I said, sure. And she said, do you have a vision problem? And I just felt my stomach sink. And I goes, oh no, oh my God, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna say? And she said, you know, I think you do. I think you didn't get one color right. And she said, and so we can't hire you. She said, we just, you have to be able to see well enough to do this job. And she said, so I'm gonna have to let you go. And I walked home and I cried the entire way. It was really that moment for me that, all right, you can't going around faking until you make it. You need to deal with this and you need to get some support around what it is that you can do for work. And it was also at that moment that I realized I can't take a job where I have to be able to have perfect vision. So I have to figure out another route around this. So that was my moment. That was my reality check. And I reached out to the Commission for the Blind, you know, for services and training, you know, after that. Because it just, it was the perfect opportunity for me. And in spite of being really upset about the fact that I had just been fired, I'm not even sure I was ever hired. But for me, it was as bad as being fired. And because I just wanted to work and I wanted to earn money. That's, that was what my goal was. - I had a similar experience to that in college. When they gave me my schedule, they put me in a television class. And the television guy, his name was Orferi, Orferi Lee. And he was a very, very nice man. And after the second class, he said, you know, can you stay for a minute? I want to talk to you. And I said, yeah. So, so we sat there and, you know, he asked me what I eventually wanted to do when I told him I wanted to get into radio. And he said, well, I think you want to drop this particular course. And I knew what he was going to tell me, but I played along with him and I said, why? And he said, well, lighting might be a problem. And we just laughed and I said, it's no problem. I'll be happy to do it. And, you know, he said, if you ever want to come back and just observe, you can do that. But he wanted so, but he didn't want to tell me that my lack of vision was going to be a problem in a television course. And he was so nice and I never forgot him for it. Now, when I was in college, our circumstances were a little different. I was and still am totally blind. Now, going to a school for the blind in Batavia and then coming to a school where you're the only blind person, I resented the fact that everybody could find their way around into the different classes and et cetera, et cetera, with no problem at all. And I couldn't. I gathered that was not one of your problems. Well, actually, when I went back to public school, so I was at Perkins for seven years and I wanted to go back to public school my senior year to graduate with my peers in my community. I went back to a fairly large high school. It was about 1500 students. And I had never been in that school myself, you know, in that building. And so I had quite a walk, you know, from my home to my school. And once I got to the school, I had never, that building was absolutely huge. So mobility had not even been part of the conversation when I was going back to high school. Nobody, no teachers, when I was, you know, preparing to leave Perkins and enter back into the public school, nobody talked about orientation and mobility for me during that time. And so it was quite challenging because when the classes got out, I mean, you may as well have been letting cattle out, you know, and it was just, you know, it was just really hard to manage that. And we also had very large staircases in the building. So as you can imagine, everyone's at their highest energy level at those ages and kids are flying, they're jumping the stairs, they're running the stairs. And I was like, oh my God, I'll never survive this. And so that was when I first got introduced actually to orientation and mobility skills in my public school system. I had had it at Perkins, but for whatever reason, it wasn't arranged initially. And then I was able to actually get, you know, orientation and mobility skills once I got there and had been there for a few weeks, actually, almost a month. And, you know, that made it much easier. It made it much better. So no matter how I felt as an adolescent about the cane itself, of what the cane represents to some young people at that time, you're around all your sighted peers. You don't want to appear to be different. You're more concerned about that than you are about your safety. But for me, I just knew that something's got to happen here because this is not necessarily set up, you know, for me. So they made some really good accommodations so that I wouldn't be trampled, you know, in between classes and stuff. So I left the class about three or four minutes before everybody else to get to my class alive and, you know, was able to coordinate things that way. So it worked out well. - I had one proud moment when I was in college. We had a course in Introduction to Broadcasting, which for me was a breeze. There was a book, but I didn't have to read it because I had read books down talking books about the history of radio and television and the networks and, you know, Bill Paley, a cigar salesman, purchasing CBS and et cetera, et cetera. We took a test one day and out of all the students, I was the only one who passed it, which didn't make my teacher very happy. Do you have any moments like that when you can look back and say, "Yeah, I did this and I never thought I would." - Well, you know, academically, it was interesting because you don't really appreciate sometimes as youth, when you're in a school system, regardless of whether it's in a school for the white earth, it's in a public school setting. You know, the information and access, you know, to resources and the skills that you're developing along the way. And I always had a love for reading. And so when I went back to public school, I did very well academically at Perkins because of course I had the best environment. I had all the, you know, accommodations necessary and a very supportive environment. But when I went back to high school, I went from being on the Dean's List and President's List at Perkins to, you know, getting close to not failing, not failing, but getting closer than I ever wanted to be. And I think that it was because of the lack of support, you know, that was there. And I had to, you know, eventually really just start saying to people, look, I was on a President's List, a Dean's List. I don't understand why this is so challenging, why this is so hard, why can't I get the support, you know, that I need in order to get back to that place. I've always been an excellent student. And so, you know, going through, after again, communicating what my needs were, but also holding them accountable, you know, for making sure that I did have what I needed, you know, until I took that step, then things went the exact opposite way. But I really had to speak up and take that accountability approach and had far more than I ever would have hoped to have had conversations about accountability and making sure that I left that school with my degree, that I felt, you know, I deserved that degree because I worked hard for it. And so from that, you know, from that perspective, yes, I feel like I proved to them, you know, that I could get back to that place academically given the supports, but it was going to take that partnership between myself and them, you know, to make sure that it did happen. So I felt vindicated, you know, and that I wasn't sort of this person that, you know, just because she's blind, she can't succeed. You know, I think that it takes a village. It really does. And so I was very happy that I was able to advocate for myself in that circumstance, but, you know, I came pretty close. So it can be pretty challenging and discouraging for young people. - I was lucky too with cane travel. I had a very good mobility instructor. And then later on, she married an engineer that worked at WBC Radio where I happened to get a job. And we became best of friends for many, many years. And I never realized that would happen when she was my mobility instructor, but she was very good and she helped me out a great deal. So I know what it means to have good mobility instruction. Now, when you started working for the commission as a, you were a counselor, correct? - Yes. - Did you ever run into roadblocks where somebody, a superior might say to you, we can't provide this for such and such, or we won't provide this for a person 'cause they're not gonna do what we want them to do. - Absolutely, yeah. And including for myself, that's how I actually got my job at the commission was because I was in, just starting college and I have retinitis pigmentosa, which is a progressive degenerative disease that leads to total blindness with no cure at that time. And so I was having a lot of issues with very severe headaches because part of the, one of the symptoms that accompanies retinitis pigmentosa is photophobia, which is an extreme sensitivity to bright light. So sometimes when you're in the sunlight to bright, your eyes are really strained and it can actually be painful. And so new glasses had come on the market from a company called Corning, Corning Glasses and Corning Silverware and Corning Tableware that you hear, well, Corning also produced lenses as well and these new lenses came out that were called Corning CPF lenses. And they were designed to really block out the UV rays from the sun and I went to a low vision evaluation with a low vision provider and he said, do you know about these glasses? And I said, no. And he said, let's try them. I'm gonna give them to you for a week. And I want you to wear them whenever you go outside and you take them off and they were transitioned lenses back then. And I didn't have one headache. I didn't feel any visual strain. So I asked the commission for those lenses and they said, no. And I said, why not? And they said, because we are not in the business of providing trendy glasses. And I said, well, they're not trendy. So they're not traditional sunglasses. They're new on the market and they're helpful. And they said, no. So they denied me. And I said, well, tell me what my next step is. Do I have an appeals process? And they said, yes, you do. And I said, well, I'd like to appeal. And so I went back to my low vision provider and said they denied them. And he said, okay, you're gonna put together. I'm gonna show you how to put together an appeal. And he walked me through it, guided me through it. And they said, now you take all this material, you go home, you read it, you get familiar with it, you build your case. And if you need me to come in, I will come in to the hearing. And I said, I think I'll be okay. I'll study it and I'll do it. So I did, I won my case. And they said, well, you won your case. So what would you like? And I said, well, I'm not looking for money. I'm not looking for anything out of the ordinary. But what I am looking for is a change in policy because you as an agency should not be able to arbitrarily deny any type of service or product unless you have absolute evidence that shows that the agency there can't afford it or the agency doesn't feel that it's something that's beneficial. And since nobody showed this product or called me in for an eye evaluation, a second one, then I think that that should not be happening to any consumer. So I would like a policy change. And that happened and as I was leaving the building, someone ran behind me and said, hey, hey, wait a minute, would you like a job? And I said, doing what? And they said, a job as a client advocate. And I said, what is a client advocate? And they said, it's exactly what you just did in there. It's exactly what you just did. And there are more people that you need to meet. There are people that need to meet you. There are people that need to know that because an agency says, no, doesn't necessarily mean, no, you have to build your case and we would love to have you do that. And so at the time, I initially said, no, I don't think that I wanna work for an agency that tells people, no, I understand you can't always do everything, but this was just so obvious that the right steps were not taken. And then I paused in the middle of talking to her and thought about what am I saying? I need a job. And so it was only a part-time job, but I committed to myself that if I got this job, I had to interview for it with other candidates. And I said, if I get to be that chosen person, I'm going to learn everything there is about this agency. I'm going to learn about policies. I'm gonna learn about how they get applied and how the agencies work. And that's what it took for me. And that's what I tried to instill in other clients also who face those similar circumstances where they were denied a service. And in some cases, the denial is appropriate, but not in every case. And given the information and the resources, it should be explored, I thought more professionally than it was during that time. - And how many years did you work as a client advocate before you became the commissioner? - Oh, let's see, I think only I worked as a client advocate, I think it was for two years. And I decided I've learned everything there is about being a client advocate. I will always be a client advocate because I attribute that role to really helping me to be where I am today. And so I then worked as a VR counselor 'cause I wanted to learn about the role of a VR counselor. I also worked as an independent living case coordinator as well and wanted to learn about that. And then I became a regional director. And then I was appointed by the governor to become the commissioner of the agency. And so I was in the agency for 26 years before I was recruited by the Obama administration to serve as the national rehabilitation services administration commissioner. - I'm not exactly sure how to ask this question, but in those 26 years, how good were your clients? I mean, were some of them really difficult as far as disability and stuff was concerned? Or did it get easier working with them as time went on? - You know, I think that when you talk about disability, there's such a wide spectrum of how individuals are impacted by disability. And yes, absolutely I had difficult clients. There probably isn't a counselor who's working in this particular field or any field for that matter that doesn't encounter difficult individuals to work with. However, I think what really helped me was to really think about where that person was. Because when they come to our agencies, they're coming at the probably the most difficult time in their lives. They're coming when their lives have been disruptive. They're coming with diagnosis. In some cases, they're coming with multiple diagnoses. And, you know, trying to meet that individual where they're at is really, I think, the best strategy. They don't always get there from point A to point Z and they don't always get there successfully. I didn't get to where I am, you know, in one full swoop that there are many, many times in all of our lives that we, whatever it is that we're living with, that there are going to be times when we're doing really well with it. And there may be times when there are exacerbations of the condition or disability or things happen in your family, it doesn't matter. It is real life and real time. And so I think that thinking about that the person, the behavior they exhibit is difficult, but what they're living with and how they choose to communicate, you know, their discontent or their stress, you know, or any mental health issues with it, that's what our jobs are for, that that's, we're there to identify that and help to connect to them with those resources that are there. And they're going to, you know, step back and they may drop out altogether, you know, but they may come back too. And I think our role is to really be their hope and to give them that guidance and encouragement that they really need when they're interfacing with programs like this. And I've seen many difficult clients that I've had to work with over time who I've met later in life and they are absolutely opposite. And they were so grateful, you know, for the opportunity to have those services and see the change through their journey as well. Well, speaking of presidents, I have met Jimmy Carter twice and talked to Ronald Reagan once, but take your time and tell us about that whole, and I've, you know, read books in the White House and the history and the Secret Service and all that kind of information, which I love. I love knowing all kinds of inside material and finding out a bunch of stuff. So take your time and tell us about how that all came about and what it was like to work within the parameters of the White House. - Well, first of all, I can say that it was an amazing opportunity. It was something that I had never envisioned in my life. You know, I remember when I first came home from the eye doctors and I remember sitting on my front porch thinking, how am I going to be able to live my life? What am I going to be able to do? If I'm going blind, what does that mean? What can I do? And that's a hard place, you know, to be for anyone, whether you're younger or older, it doesn't really matter. You've just encountered a life change. So I have never been that person that thought that I'm just going to sit on the sidelines either and accept it and just do nothing. And so I always knew that I would do something. So I think that what was amazing for me was that the work that I've done, the experiences that I've had, the people who've been in my life to help me along the way 'cause I didn't get to this that well by myself. You know, there were a lot of people along the way who were there right beside my side, giving me encouragement. I actually came very close to not taking that role because I was terrified of the level of responsibility, but also I just at that point in time, I didn't have the confidence. I kind of slipped back and thinking, how am I going to be able to do this role? We're talking about a presidential appointment. We're talking about having to go and sit before Congress and having to work with Congress and working with the disability community nationally, which at that part I was 100% comfortable with. But the experience was amazing. It was life learning and life altering. It was incredibly intensive work. And it was amazing to have met so many people across the country. The job is literally just about a 24/7 commitment in terms of when you have a presidential appointment. I came into that position at a time when the vocational rehabilitation program nationally was at risk. And so I also walked in when regulations had to be promulgated. My first three weeks on the job, we had a federal shutdown. So I went from having over 100 staff who I probably hadn't even met all of to a complete shutdown when nobody else was allowed to be in the building except for myself and the secretary of education at that time. And so these are the kinds of, it's the saying expect, the unexpected is the best way to describe it, but it is probably my most powerful, I think learning experience that I've ever had. I think there were incredible people across federal departments. I think that people underestimate what actually happens not in the political atmosphere, but at the agency level, at the community-based organization levels, what happens in these programs and how we get from one place to another in terms of the progress of the disability community nationally was an amazing experience for me to engage in. And I have to say that the White House was absolutely incredibly supportive but also innovative and giving that leeway and flexibility. And I think there's support behind introducing the rules and regulations and promulgating them. Congress was great with that. There's always push and pull on all sides of these things and nobody ever gets everything that you want out of any type of political program where it involves rules and regulations and promulgating them. There's always all of these competing positions and sides, but I always kept in mind and always reminded individuals when I was working through that process as saying, "Look, we can argue about words like may, shall, can and will and won't from a legal term and a legal perspective when you're talking about promulgating rules and regulations for any program, but I always want to know about what is that, how does that affect the workers on the ground that are working with the disability community? And more importantly, how does it affect the individuals with disabilities? Are we making it more difficult for them? Are we making it more challenging for the workers to do what they need to be doing? And that's how I went through that entire process. - I'm curious when you were working at the commission. I mean, did you get a phone call saying, hi, the president of the United States was just to speak to you or hi, it's Barack Obama, how are you doing? - I would not have believed that, but I did, I actually received an email and I was doing some work on my computer and I looked at this email and it was an invitation for me to speak with someone in the administration about that particular position. And I had been invited previously to serve as a subject matter expert along with representatives from about two dozen other states in the country. And so I thought it was related to that, to that panel presentation. And when I read the email, it said that they wanted me to be at a meeting at the White House and this was a Thursday and but they needed my social security number, my address and I looked at that and I said, there is no way, this is a scam because I don't believe the White House would be asking you for your social security number. So I thought it was a scam. So I actually deleted it. And then I woke up in the middle of the night, it was about 2 a.m. And I opened my computer again and I looked at it again and I said, this is definitely a scam. And I said, I'm gonna look to see if there's a phone number on here. And I said, I'm gonna call this phone number, first thing in the morning and I'm gonna tell them that somebody, there's a scam and that people are sending around emails and asking for social security numbers and saying that they would like to invite me to the White House. And I called and I got this gentleman and I told him what I thought and he says, well, what makes you think it's a scam? And I said, well, for one thing, it's asking for all my personal information, it's asking my home address, my date of birth, my social security number. And he said, well, what would you say if I told you it wasn't a scam? And I said, well, really? And he said, no, it's not a scam. And he said, so, and he kind of talked to me through, you know, what was going to happen and why they were contacting me. And he said, but we would like you to be at the White House on Monday. And this was a Friday and I had schedules, you know, I had meetings scheduled and everything. And he said, so I'm gonna send, you're gonna get an envelope. And he said, so you have to be in Washington on Monday. And I said, well, how can I be in Washington on Monday? And I said, today's Friday. I said, I don't have airline tickets or anything like that. Can I, how can I get a flight, you know? And he said, don't worry about it. And he said, but you cannot come without this invitation. And I said, but today's Friday, how am I gonna get the invitation? And he said, don't worry, you'll have the invitation. And so I said, okay, so I'll go to my office and I'm thinking, this is craziness. This is, this is, can't possibly all fit, you know, between Friday and Monday. And so I get to my office and I tell Paul, might be at the time he was my assistant in the scheduling. And I said, Paul, I said, you know, I know I've got at least three meetings today. Let's go over my calendar. And he says, oh yeah, I need to talk to you about that. Now this was about 10 a.m. in the morning. And I said, and he said, I need to talk to you about your schedule. And I said, sure, Nagel, so what's going on? And he said, well, he said, we've got to clear your schedule. And I said, what do you mean clear my schedule? Why? And he said, well, apparently you're going to be at the White House on Monday. And I said, wait a minute, how did you know that? And he says, well, I'm holding in my hand an invitation. And I said, that can't be it. I just talked to the guy. And he says, it is. And he says, it's an official invitation. And he said, so would you like me to open it and read it? And I said, yes. And so we did. And my next set of instructions was to call this number, you know, that was on the invitation. And I did. And I said, this is Janet LeBrak. I said, I just spoke with you. And I said, I have the invitation. How did you do that? And he says, oh, he goes, well, it's the White House after all. So we can do it. And I said, well, I just have another question. And he said, what's that? And I said, how come I can't get my mail that fast? I said, a piece of crack of laughter. And so that was the beginning of the process. That's how it happened. I deleted it, and then I woke up. And then I was mad about getting it because I thought it was a scam. But it was-- it was real. Just tell me about some of your daily routine. Did you have Secret Service protection? No, not at my level. I did not. However, as a presidential appointee, you're not walking around with Secret Service, like, you know, people from the Department of Defense and very presidential cabinet level. I was not in the cabinet. I was a level below the cabinet. So cabinet people get that kind of Secret Service because they're going internationally, and they're dealing with defense, and they're dealing with all these other, you know, international issues that are obviously very critical and can sometimes be challenging in terms of safety. Though every presidential appointee, obviously, you have different level security clearances, which I had. And then you get services like the car service and things like that when you're going to do presentations and all of that. So it was just a whole different world, you know, that then what I certainly came from, you know, for sure. Yeah, it wouldn't take me long to get used to that kind of service as well. Well, I tried to keep as down to Earth as I possibly could during the whole time that I was in the administration. So, Janet, I have rather an interesting question. How did you get your clients when you were in Washington, D.C.? I mean, I know when you worked for the mass commission, we could always call you or call somebody there. But how did you manage to get your clients in Washington, D.C., when you were at the White House? So the Rehabilitation Services Administration really is the agency that is responsible for overseeing how services are delivered to those agencies. And so the rules and regulations for all vocational rehabilitation programs across the country come out of RSA, they come out of Congress, they are a result of key stakeholders, individuals with disabilities, educators, business industry, people weigh in on those rules and regulations. And so it's up to the VR agencies to be in compliance with the rules and regulations that they are governed by. And so it was not uncommon to get calls from clients and call me and say, "I'm having a problem. I'm from XYZ state and my counselor or agency denied me something." And you get the story and you help to resolve the issue. Certainly I was not able to do it at the level that I did when I was a client advocate because you're at a much different administrative level than you are. You cannot possibly work individually with all the clients. But I always was passionate about never losing that connection with the clients that we serve. Because they're the reason why we're here. We're there to ensure that they're getting their needs met and that they have access to those services and supports that they need. So I still was able to interact at a certain extent with those individuals and making sure that they got their needs met and making sure that the agency, whether there was confusion about a service or a decision, we had people embedded in RSA that would follow up on those at a local level. Every state has a liaison. So that if I knew someone in one state contacted me or sent a letter to say they were having difficulty, we have liaisons that can reach out to the agencies themselves to troubleshoot or help get things back on track. So Janet, did you ever get to spend time with the president and have a relaxing dinner in order what you wanted to have to eat? Not on a regular basis, that's for sure, because I was far too busy. I did-- I was very fortunate in that his administration was always incredibly gracious about inviting us to their-- his personal holiday celebrations that he had at the White House. And they have-- at the White House, there are multiple dining rooms at the White House. And so you get to have a dinner or lunch in the presidential dining rooms. And the presidential dining rooms are all structured in a way that they represent different branches of the military. And so it's usually only either cabinet level or at my level where individuals were invited to be and, you know, to have their lunch at those, you know, presidential dining in one of those presidential dining rooms. And he always had events that were going on. We had the first African-American Disability Month at the White House. I was able to participate in that and lead that and introduce Valerie Jarrett, who served right under the president as well as a presidential advisor. So there were lots of recognition-type things, events that were going on. When we signed in WA, I got to be there with him to sign that into law when he signed it into law with President Biden and other officials. So yeah, there were many opportunities. And we were able to be at their holiday celebrations. And they had different themes for their holiday celebrations. And I felt very proud to be a part of that. And I also would use that opportunity to invite my staff because I was able to invite some staff to some of those events also. And I wanted them to have that experience as well, not just for me to have it. It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. And I was really happy to be able to open that up to them as well. So yeah, and it was, they're very down to Earth. It was very relaxing. You know, it was always crowded, but it was very relaxing and a great opportunity just to get to know so many different people in the administration. So how many years were you in the White House, Janet? Just about the full term, because I think I was about four or five months short of the full second term. OK. But what did this do for you? Did you panic? Did you-- were you assured of another job with him and another capacity? Or what happened? Well, everyone, when you're a presidential appointee, it's the only time in your life when you know your start date and your end date. And so when you serve in a presidential role like that as part of a presidential administration, you have lots of opportunities during your whole 10 year where you're networking and you have that time to figure out what your next move is going to be. So obviously, I knew I was not going to be a part of the next administration after his. But I also knew that I wanted to do something that I had never done previously, which was to start my own consulting practice. And so at the end of his administration, I had been planning and thinking about, can I do this? Can I start my own practice? And so I did that at the end of his administration, started it in 2017, and it's still going today. So I knew what I wanted to do and made sure that by the end of his administration that I had acquired the skill sets, the networking, all of the things that you need, all the tools that you need to be able to prepare yourself to do something like that. But it was also incredibly exhausting because I had been promulgating regulations for two years and there were intensive meetings, long meetings, weekend meetings. It was absolutely an incredibly grueling process. So I knew also that I needed to take a little bit of time off and took a couple of months off and relocated to outside of Atlanta, Georgia, and got myself set up and ready to go. And I was re-energized and ready to go. So what are you doing now? What exactly-- I mean, can I use your services? What exactly are you doing? So when I decided that the work that I had done in his administration really was very similar to what I have been doing my entire career. And that really is working on partnerships and helping to build networks, but also working with agencies and VR agencies, as well as other businesses and industries that have a desire to understand better how to connect with federal government, but also how to understand the disability community and leverage the programs or different initiatives they are engaged in and how to connect with the disability community. And so my company is called Synergy Consulting Partners. And I have a co-founder with me. And I had started it myself. And then I realized I need some additional help. And so I reached out to a couple of colleagues who I do are very good at this work also. We teamed up. And so we work with agencies and organizations. We do grant writing. We work with businesses. I've worked with a biotech company. So it's a different-- I work with a global software company and helping them to do different types of initiatives and understanding where are we going? Where's the trend going nationally? With federal government and agencies and rules and regulations and helping them to really understand that we are an industry. When you think about it, VR is an industry. It's an industry of people, helping them to connect and make those partnerships and helping them to understand how they can improve their own bottom-line as companies and organizations by looking at the disability community as an untapped source of talent. So that's the work that we do. All right. Excuse me. What do you envision for those who have disabilities for the future? I mean, I know how great assistive technology has gotten. I love it in a way that I can sit here and listen to a broadcaster out of San Francisco with FM quality and I never have to worry about static. The talking book industry has certainly improved. But what about your perspective? Well, I can tell you that this is probably a period of time in my life when I'm most excited about the future for people with disabilities. And I am excited about it for a couple of reasons. Number one, the advancements in technology. When you think about where we are now, where you and I started, with technology, the days, when technology barely existed and when you think about where we are today with technology, it excites me really, really a lot because I think that the technology revolution really is the equalizer for people with disabilities. And although it's not perfect, this reflects back to what I said earlier, that even with a promulgation of rules and regulations, no matter what program it is, there's never a perfect fit or a perfect solution. But you can always have different iterations of it. And you build on those iterations that are designed to-- if it's not working now, how can we make it better? It's really focusing on those ways to improve it, but also make it more scalable and also more cost-effective for people with disabilities. I think also the other changes that coincide with technology is how we are thinking about the world of work today. And we think about the world of work today very differently than we did pre-COVID. Post-COVID, it has forced businesses to pivot. It has forced organizations to pivot and how they serve individuals. It's forced us as individuals to pivot and what we value in a work day, our family lives, and how we operate day to day. And so I think that I'm very excited because I think those two pieces and our own attitudes about disabilities are the three areas I think that really have the opportunity to keep growing and changing the paradigm as we know it, the paradigm of underemployment, the paradigm of marginalization, and how we think about our attitudes about people with disabilities. We all have something that we're all living with or facing with or will be. And I'm always saying disability is an equal opportunity condition. It can happen to anyone at any time, any place. And so we need to have, I think, a much, much more inclusive thought process, but even more importantly, action-oriented way that we think about inclusion, the way we think about disability. And the way we set expectations for ourselves as individuals and for our society, around disability and what we expect from people. And I think that if we continue to move forward in that way, I'm very excited for the future of people with disabilities. Well, speaking for myself, I am glad that you're a part of that world. Your shining example of the expression that I like to use is to follow your dream. I did it. You did it. And I'm sure you're going to be helping a lot of other people do the same thing. And I can't thank you enough for sitting down and giving me all this time. It was very enjoyable. You are so welcome. And you are someone to be admired as well. And I think that there are a lot of people who have learned from you as well. And sometimes we come across those paths. But my tagline that I always use in national presentations is sometimes in life adversity and barriers can become a pathway to opportunity. And I think that that speaks to how we view ourselves as individuals, but it also speaks to what it is we're all facing, whether it's individually or collectively in terms of barriers or issues or adversity that we may all go through. It's how we look at it and do we open that door of opportunity because that can really make the difference and how we perceive it, but how we also move forward. Well, this has been very rewarding for me. And I'm sure for our audience as well. And please know if there's-- if you ever need a speaker and you're stuck, call me. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much. And thank you for your leadership and your commitment as well, because you have changed, I think, the paradigm yourself as an individual and as well as as a professional. So thank you for all that you do. And I appreciate that. And that will do it for another edition of City Talk. Good night, everybody. Thanks for listening to another great conversation with Ken Meyer and friends. You can contact Ken by email. He addresses kjmyr7@gmail.com. That's kj-m-e-y-e-r7@gmail.com. Tune in next time for more conversation with Ken Meyer on City Talk. [MUSIC PLAYING]