What The Ale?
30. Robert Johnson aka The Granddaddy of Rock n' Roll
ghosts, cryptids, murder, conspiracies, beer, what, the ale. Hello friends. Hello. Welcome to What the Ale. I'm Alana Ray. And I'm Mama J. And we are coming to the end of February. So, this is our last episode of the month. Wow. Time flies. I know this year is going by fast already. I know. Speaking of things like that, any of the old moments this week, Mom? You know, I think mine for today is just, I have two out of my three children. I haven't checked your mood yet. Two out of them. My three children are kind of having a day. And so, yeah, just kind of a little bit of down energy, not sure what it's all about. Well, one of the kids I know for sure what it's all about. But, yeah, so it's just kind of the mood in the household is a little low today. I see, I see. We'll definitely make sure to sushi roll those kiddos and hopefully they get, you know, they perk up a little bit. Yeah, I think everybody's a little tired and moody. But, yeah, yeah, what about you? Let's see. What the, oh, what the, oh, what the, oh, I kind of have a good one. My colleagues and I all decided to, like, go out for drinks after work. And it was really fun. And, like, nice to just, like, hang out outside of work and not have to worry about, like, getting back to our calls or, you know, whatever we're doing. So, yeah, it was, it was really nice. And, you know, we were, you know, we were joking, like, every payday. We'll see, we'll see. So, yeah, I guess kind of related to that, Mom, what are you drinking tonight? I'm drinking a black peat porter, which is, you know, one of my faves. So, nice. I, um, so I had, like I said, drinks with my coworkers, but then when I got home, my little, my little sweetie had a tall boy that was, like, a wine cooler and a mango lime wine cooler by Sea Grims. I don't think I'm going to drink all of this if you want some. So, I'm having a mug of that. Okay. It's so funny how, like, wine coolers are sort of coming back because that was, like, I think when I was in high school and then you can hear about wine coolers for years and years and years. And now you're starting to hear about them again, which is kind of funny. Yeah. I feel like things kind of circle back. I was thinking about, like, baby names and how, like, baby names that, like, are from the olden days are kind of circling back and becoming more normal, whereas, like, like, you know, no one names their kid, like, Kimberly anymore, which I feel like was like the 80s and 90s baby's name. But like, go into the Elliot's and the Mables and the, yeah, I think it's like interesting to see how things like that cycle. That's funny. I was talking to some people about that over the weekend, where you're talking about how to choose names and, like, you know, common names or giving family names. And yeah, the name Gladys came up and I was like, yeah, I've never met anybody named Gladys, but all I, you know, I think about Miss Gladys, you know, because I have some Gladys night in your life. But like, I've never met a Gladys before, but apparently that name is coming back around. I met a Gladys in college. Like, she was like my age in college. So they exist. But I guess we can get into our story for the week though. Oh, okay. What you got for us? So I kind of decided to cover a story that, you know, might be a little short, but I think it's kind of cool. I am a big fan of a rock and roll conspiracy theory or a rock and roll kind of mythology sort of moment. Okay. So I decided to cover Robert Johnson. Now, I'm sure you know who that is, right? No. Okay. So Robert Johnson, you know, I'll get more into the history, but he is considered one of like the grandfathers of blues and of rock and roll. And he was kind of, you know, he lived a short life, but he seemed to have a huge impact on the music and music industry for time. So I'm going to cover the history about him and then a little bit about, you know, why we're including him on the podcast. And then I think we can just go from there. Okay. So he was born on a plantation in 1911 in Mississippi. His mother was the child of slaves, but she kind of worked in like that weird in between era where you could still work on a plantation, but you were getting somewhat of a wage. And so he lived all around Mississippi and Tennessee. He mostly lived in a town called Robinsville while he was alive. And as a child, he had learned how to play the Jews harp, which is some sort of stringed instrument. I'm not really sure why it's called that, but that's what he's called. And then he eventually learned the guitar. Okay. When he was about 18 years old, he married 16 year old Virginia Travis, who sadly died in childbirth in 1930. And, you know, in that process also lost his young son. And he was completely devastated and moved to Robinsville, Mississippi, or moved back to where he was originally. And while he was there, he met the Masters of Blues. And he was like, Hey, guys, I want to jam with you guys. And like some of these guys are like, Willie Brown or Charlie Patton. You know, people who you kind of hear about when people throw around blues names, you're like, Oh, yeah, I've heard of that guy. But they were completely unimpressed with this talent layer. Like, who is this annoying guy with a guitar? Like, you know, whatever. And he came back a year later and they were completely blown away by his musical ability. Oh, really? And there's kind of a plausible theory. And then there's the fun theory. So I'm going to do the plausible theory first and then we'll get to the wait. Okay, I think I know who this is now. Okay, go ahead, though. I was going to say a lot of people kind of know the story, you know? Yeah, I think I know now. Okay, but go ahead. So like I said, there's the plausible theory and the fun theory. So I'm going to do the plausible theory first and then get into the fun. So the plausible theory is that Robert went back to Robinsville. And he trained under Ike Zinniman, who was a really well renowned like blues musician in the area. And something I guess that it also happened during this time was he had gotten remarried to an older wealthier woman. And she had the money to like provide, you know, a stipend or something for him to go take musical lessons. Okay. And so he learned lots of different musical styles, like not just traditional, like what is known as blues. And so, you know, a lot of people were like, Oh, like, yeah, he just like learned all the different types of music and whatever. But the theory that most people know is that Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil for eight years of musicals. Yes, ma'am. He made a deal. So, um, you know, and the reason why a lot of people think that too is actually within his later music. After this time he released a song called the Crossroad Blues. Yeah, another song called Hellhound on my trail. Yeah, the funny thing is, is that my research did say this and I listened to the songs to confirm, but they don't mention anything about meeting a crossroads demon. So I do think that's interesting. But I did find a kind of fun article that kind of told the story in a whimsical way. And I thought it'd be funner to do it that way than just like read the details. So I'm going to like do a little story type right now. Okay. Let me get it up. Um, so as it's told by a Mr. Henry Goodman, Robert Johnson had been playing in Yazu City and over at Bula, trying to get back up to Helena, which is an Arkansas. And the ride left him out on a road next to the levy, walking up the highway with his guitar in hand, propped on his shoulder on an October cool night with a full moon filling up the dark sky. He started thinking about Sun House preaching to him, put that guitar down boy, you're driving people nuts. Now Robert Johnson was known as a man always needing a woman and some whiskey. And with those big trees all around and a dark lonesome road, there was a crazed poison dog howling and moaning in a ditch alongside the road sending electrified chills up and down his spine, coming up on a crossroads just south of Rosedale. Robert was feeling bad and lonesome. He knows people up the highway in Gunnison. And so he knew he could get a drink of whiskey and more up there. There was a man sitting off to the side of the road on a log who says, you're late, Robert Johnson, at which point he drops to his knees and says, maybe not. The man stands up tall, barrel-chested and black as the fever or the forever closed eyes of Robert Johnson's stillborn baby. And he walks out in the middle of the crossroads where Johnson is kneeling and he says, stand up Robert Johnson. You want to know that guitar over there in that ditch with that hairless dog? Or whoops, sorry. You want to throw that guitar over there in that ditch with that hairless dog and go on back up to Robinsville and play the harp with Willy Brown and Sun because you just another guitar player like all the rest. Or do you want to play guitar like nobody ever played it before? Make a sound nobody ever heard before? You want to be the king of the Delta blues and have all the whiskey and women you want. And Robert responded, that's a lot of whiskey devil, whiskey and woman devil man. And he said, I know you Robert Johnson. He then felt the moonlight bearing down on his head and the back of his neck. As the moon seems to be growing larger and bigger and brighter, he felt it like the heat of the noonday sun bearing down and the howling and moaning of the dog in the ditch penetrated his soul coming up through his feet and the tips of his fingers through his legs and arms, settling in that big empty place beneath his breastbone, causing him to shake and shudder. And he said, that dog gone mad. The man said, the hand belongs to me. He ain't mad. He got the blues. I got his soul in my hand. At that point, the dog let us all along soulful moan, howling like never before rhythmic, syncopated grunts, yelps and barks, seizing Robert Johnson like a grand mall and causing the streams of his guitar to vibrate hum and sing with a sound dark and blue. Beautiful soulful chords and notes possessing Robert Johnson, taking him over, spinning him around, losing him inside his own self, wasting him lifting him up into the sky. Robert Lee looks over in the ditch and sees that dog reflecting in the moonlight armor likely it seems to Robert Johnson glowing on their own, a deep velvet penetrating glow and Robert knows and feels that he is staring into the eyes of a hellhound as his body shutters from head to toe. The man says, the dog ain't for sale Robert Johnson, but the sound can be yours. And that's the sound of the Delta blues. I got to have that sound double man. That sound is mine. Where do I sign? You ain't got a pencil, Robert Johnson. Your word is good enough. All you got to do is keep walking north, but you better be prepared. There are consequences. Paired for what? Double man. You know where you are, Robert Johnson? You're standing in the middle of the crossroads. At midnight, that full moon is right over your head. You take one more step, you'll be in Rosedale. You take this road east, you'll get closer to Highway 61 in Cleveland, or you turn around and go back to down the bela or just go to the west and sit up on the levee and look at the river. But if you take one more step in the direction you're headed, you go in to be in Rosedale at midnight under this full October moon and you're going to have the blues like never known to this world. My left hand will forever be wrapped around your soul and music will possess all who hear it. That's what's going to happen. That's what you better be prepared for. Your soul will belong to me. This is not just any crossroads. I put this X here for a reason and I've been waiting on you. Robert Johnson rolls his head around eyes upwards in their sockets to stare at the blinding light of the moon, which is now completely filled. High black pitch still tonight piercing his right eye like a bolt of lightning as the midnight hour hits. He looks the man squarely in eyes and says, step back double man, I'm going to Rosedale. I am the blues. The man sits to one side and says go on Robert Johnson. You the king of the delta blues go on home to Rosedale and we need get on up in town, get you a plate of hot tamales because you're going to be needing something in your stomach where you're headed. That is the end of the lovely stories that I wrote down. Who wrote that story? It was someone named Henry Goodman. It was kind of linked to like an NPR podcast I found and I just kind of liked the transcript and I was like, I'm just going to read it. Some of this could be speculation. Some of this could be real. I just thought it was really interesting. What happened after? What were his successes or where did he go with his guitar playing? Like I said, he decided to settle and Helena Arkansas and while he was there, he played with blues greats like Elmore James, Robert Nighthawk and Howlin Wolf and there were others but those were like the kind of big three mentioned and he also became involved with a woman named Esther Coleman and it formally adopted her son who became the blues legend Robert Jr. Lockwood, which you heard of him. That's like his adopted son and in his life, so like I said, he lived another eight years. He played all around the south and he actually made it as far north as Chicago. He played in house parties. He played at juke joints. He would bust on the street. He even played at lumber camps or labor camps. In 1936 and 37, he recorded several songs and something that is kind of unique of his sound is that at the time, blues was a lot more kind of looser, not super rigid or there wasn't a lot of like a format. It was just kind of whatever the artist was feeling. They kind of jammed. It was fun. And he created, you know, a tighter and more intentional sound than what was kind of known at the time, which is kind of why they call him the grandfather of blues. And his songwriting ability has been praised by none other than Bob Dylan, who at least in our family, we consider to be one of the greatest songwriters of all time. Yeah. He's a poet for sure. And he is also known to have influenced big artists like Muddy Waters, Eric, and lots of others. Like I said, he was playing with Robert Lock, Jr. Lockwood was his son. Like all these big names were like really influenced by his music. Yeah. Well, probably anybody that was like a great guitarist, like, or Clapton, people like that, you know, I like it makes sense that they would be heavily influenced by him. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So and as I mentioned, he only lived eight more years before he died. So in 1938, he tragically passed away at the age of 27. Oh, and something I want to say is his death is mysterious as well. There's two reasons. So one involved the hellhouse? No, but his death certificate says that he died on a plantation near Greenwood, Mississippi. And it said there were complications due to syphilis. And so if he was known to be a chaser, a woman, and all of those things, you know, that could be a thing. Yeah. However, his friend David Honeyboy Edwards. So Honeyboy claimed that he actually drank poisoned whiskey and then died on the plantation. And he said he knew this because he had been playing with Robert and a few days before his death and Robert drank whiskey, which he believes had been poisoned by one of his jealous girlfriends. Oh, wow. And I tried to dig into the true crime element of that could not find any evidence of it. But I think it's interesting that his friend kind of thought it was murder and not, you know, syphilis. Who knows? I don't know if penicillin shots were as available as they were back then. You know, and yeah, so those are kind of the two stories. But yeah, nevertheless, even his grave site is mysterious as three churches in the Greenwood area have had zones and claim that he has buried there, but no one knows where he is actually buried. Really? Yeah. So he is, you know, I think there would be a clear record of that or at least the family could vouch for it or something. Yeah. And you know, what I think is hard is like, this is 38, like, this is the Great Depression, the beginning of World War II, you're thinking, you know, unfortunately, this is a black man in the south. So maybe there wasn't money for him to pay for a proper headstone or things like that, you know, it's just really hard to tell. But as I mentioned earlier, his impact is well known. So while he was alive, he only had one song that even was moderately successful, which was the Terraplane Blues, which sold a whopping 5,000 copies. Wow. However, after he died, Columbia Records compiled a, you know, massive album with pretty much all of his songs. And that became so well known that he posthumously won a Grammy for the best historic album. Wow. Was inducted into the Blues Hall of Fame during its inaugural year in 1980. And in 1986, he was officially inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as an early influencer. Wow. So that's very cool. Yeah. So say what you will about him. He definitely, you know, and it's hard. There's not a lot known about his life. There's not a lot known about the theory. There's not a lot about anything. Yeah. But I kind of wanted to cover, you know, yeah, one of the people that really influenced Rock and Roll towards that in Black History Month. And I just thought that would be a really cool kind of story. So anything you think you made a deal with the devil? I like that idea. It's a fun idea. No, it's fun. I don't know what that means for him now. Does that mean he's like being tortured? Yeah, like is he in purgatory or something? Like, you know, you wonder. But I will say, like I do think his music is really cool. I think, you know, he definitely has had an impact on music overall and whether he locked himself in his house and like really focused on music or he sold a soul to the devil either way, like good for you, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting though, if they weren't impressed with him at all and then a year or later with that impress, I mean, that is a big change in a year. Yeah. And you know, that is something that I mean, I'm not a musician, but you would think it would take longer. You know, but maybe, you know, he met someone who was a really incredible musician and they mentored him or something, you know, we just don't really know. Maybe manifested it, meditated on it. All about manifestation, girl, positive energy. Exactly. Exactly. I would be something like that. Just because I don't want him to be suffering somewhere. But, but yeah, the deal with the devil's story is a fun story. I mean, just in terms of like, yeah, for him to make that big of a turnaround so quickly. But yeah, I hope that doesn't mean he's suffering. Yeah. And I do want to be is I hope he thinks it was worth it. And there's one more thing that he has attributed with. He has attributed with being the first member of the 27 Club. Oh, so, you know, we will do a deep dive on the 27 Club on our flight. So keep an eye out for that. But for them, no, the 27 Club is a group of artists of all different types who tragically died at 27. And these are folks that we're going to get into. So I'm not going to name names right now. But they are some really big people in music history, art history, even actors, you know, it's just something like that. And maybe it's the sex drugs life, like rock and roll lifestyle, maybe some sort of conspiracy we don't really know. But I do think it is interesting how many influential people have died at 27. And it started with Robert, as far as we know. So I kind of thought that'd be a fun segue into our flight topic for this week, too. Yeah. So look forward to that, everybody. I know. March 1st. Keep an eye out. But yes, sex drugs and rock and roll, I think definitely has something to do with it for some of these people. There's a lot of drug addiction. Yeah, especially for the folks in the 60s. Yeah. Absolutely. Woodstock. Oh my goodness. Yeah. A lot of back after Woodstock. I definitely think a couple of my and more people from Woodstock, you know, the one there. So yep. So we'll look forward to that later this week. Yeah. Yeah, but I guess, did you want to say anything else about Robert Johnson moment? I know. But you know, I do think it's good for people to know, you know, what influenced a lot of the music back in the day because, you know, I mean, so much music nowadays has just bit from, you know, previous musicians. And, you know, there were so many great musicians that had such influence. So, yeah, really, I like putting out, you know, names that a lot of people might not know or, yeah, when you think about some of my favorite people, you know, a lot of them were influenced by Sam Cook, who is one of my favorites also. Yeah. You know, but like having, you know, I don't know, just giving credit where credit's doing in terms of people who have big influence on different genres and music. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I mean, I think, you know, Mark Ronson did a really amazing TED talk on the art of sampling. So go check that out on YouTube if you want. But like, it was all about how the reason why people sample is because why do we need to reinvent the wheel when something beautiful has been created? And I think, you know, well, sometimes I'm like, okay, they're sampling and then they're stealing, you know, but sometimes it's incredible and it's beautiful and it's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I kind of felt like I didn't want to do like, I mean, this does seem like a bit of a tragic story. Obviously, he died very young. He grew up in a hard time, all of that. But I do think I wanted to take a break from the super, super sad, a black history month moment that was like a bit more positive in terms of after this person passed. So, yeah. Well, it's sad to that he didn't get to see how successful he became or how much he was appreciated. Like, he was not around when he was inducted into the hall of fame or, you know, any of that stuff. So it's always when people don't realize the impact they had. Yeah. And it's interesting too, because he was the first class of the blues hall of fame and the second class of the rock and roll hall of fame. So he obviously has enough of an impact to get in right after the Beatles. You know, I mean, that's huge. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I want to start nothing, but you know, I have issues with the whole of fame in terms of how long they make some people wait, because I'm sorry, Miss Tina should have been in a long time ago. Can we talk about beyond is on the list again, but she has not been inducted formally. She's been on this list for how many years, Misty on Warwick, like. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I know a lot of it is audience vote. I understand that, but like, audience, older folks who have better music tastes, we cannot. We cannot let some of these people. Yeah, like, well, and I went there several years ago. Gosh, I didn't even know what year it was now, because of COVID made everything feel weird. But pretty COVID I went there. And it was the year that Nina Simone got in, and I was sitting there going, like, how has she not been in for, you know, Nina Simone, like the woman who like influenced like so many people and was like friends with MLK. I mean, you just don't. Yeah. It's crazy to me how that works. But yeah, now I definitely, I love rock and roll Hall of Fame. I think it's fascinating. If you all want like a really fun experience with like rock and roll history, that's like very black centric. If you go to the African American History and Culture Museum in DC, the whole upstairs, there's like a whole floor dedicated to like rock and roll music that like black people paved the way for so. Very cool. And out of 10 recommend that you could, um, you could see, uh, oh my god, come on, brain. Oh my gosh, what's mom, you're going to hate me right now. This thing's johnny be good. What's this name? Um, Chuck Berry? No, Berry. Okay. I was like, is that right? I don't know. I kept wanting to say chubby checker. And I knew that was like, I couldn't, I was like, I couldn't get that out of my head. Chuck Berry, you could see Chuck Berry's beautiful Cadillac. You could see Princess guitars. You could see Jimi Hendrix's outfits. I mean, it's, it's a good time. So go do that. Learn your rock and roll history friends. It's really cool. But there are other parts of that museum made you cry a lot. So you got to be prepared for the emotional side of that museum as well. So do what I did and go upstairs first and do culture first and then go downstairs and do history and then get ice cream. Yeah. Because you had a hard time walking through that museum. At the end, it was hard. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's important and, you know, it's very important that we know the history. So I'm really glad that they have some exhibits there that are so moving and so impactful and like giving perspective. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. I think it's important, you know, the history, especially in a country where sometimes that history is being silenced or erased. And we got to talk about it. So that's me. But anyway, friends, I guess I'll let you all get back to your days or your evenings and then housekeeping things. Like we said, our flight will be out on March 1st. So please keep an eye out for that. If you want more about the 27th club, we are also going to be posting our Patreon bonus episode for the month, which I believe is a mom episode. So, yeah, for that. And speaking of Patreon, please go on to patreon.com and subscribe to what the ill podcast we are up there. You could also sub or follow us on Instagram at what the ill pod or you can, you know, do all the lovely things like subscribe, rate five stars, all of that. And then if you did have a topic that you wanted us to share, go story, anything like that, we do monitor our lovely email for ideas and we would love to do another listener's flight. So please let us know. You can send all of that to what the ill pod at gmail.com. But outside of that, I just want to say I appreciate you, mama. I appreciate you too, baby. And we appreciate you all, friends. Bye-bye. - Bye. - Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]