I also had a professor that's a retired OB/GYN and a lawyer and a professor. But anyways, when I'm about to dive too much, you can do that. But that's a big giant, right? That I have in front of me, it's just, it's mine, it's mine boggling. But the American Bar Association Health Law Section Conference was great. I learned a lot, I learned a lot about the health law professionals that are within my area. They were so nice, so that was like something very big for me because lawyers, I'm not going to say they're not usually nice, but sometimes as a law student, I will say you find kind of struggle to try to introduce yourself to these big giants because networking is a part of the profession. - Yes. - It is the profession. (dramatic music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music) - Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Career Education Learners in the podcast. I'm your host, Mitchell Rivers. I am thrilled and honored to have Summer Dawson on our show today. Summer is a law student at Tennessee University. How are you doing today, Summer? - I'm doing well today, I'm happy to be on the show and happy to talk to you guys today. - Thank you so much for coming on our show, Summer. I really do appreciate it. - Of course, of course. - Summer, tell the audience a little bit about yourself and your journey to law school. - Okay, so I am currently a second year law student at Southern University Law Center. I'm actually in my last semester of my two-year, so I will be a 3L in August, which is your last year of law school, law school's like three years. I've always known I want to be an attorney, so basically since I young age, so that was always my journey. I went to LSU for undergraduate. I majored in political science, full of concentration in law and legal systems. And then after that, I graduated in three and a half years. I took that semester to just work and because most law schools don't do spring at Michigan. So I had to take a semester, all since I graduated a semester early. And then in fall of 2022, I set out to my one-year at Southern University Law Center. - That is fantastic and amazing cause. I'm not going to get three and a half years, it took me five years, he took my education somewhere. (laughing) - And then only then, I went to community college first. Well, let's be honest about it. People who have seen this podcast, I went to Midland Community College in Statesville, then I transferred to Central Piedmont Community College here in Colorado, Oklahoma. And then I went to New York City Pimp Brook. And so my journey was a lot more up and down and all crazy around summer than yours were, so, you know. And you said you knew that in young age, about what age did you know it would be a lawyer? - I would say about the age of maybe nine or 10. I mean, most people say a lot of, when you get in law school, a lot of people say, it seems like everybody's family says, "Oh, you argued well, you're argued men to see you." - Yeah, that was what I was going to say too, yes. - That was part of it. That was part of it, but truly, and I haven't told a big audience of people this before, but I was really brought it home for me. And yeah, the journey is a journey. You spoke about ups and downs, and definitely once you get here, I mean, yes, talking about the timeline is one thing, but actually being in the process is another, right? So we're on this journey and we're almost finished. We're almost finished, but it's been quite the hassle. - Yes, I mean, any journey that you take in life, I mean, as I forgot the famous artist said, "Everybody has their own journey." Oh, Felicia Rashad, Mr. Shah, I said, "I'm Tita." Like, "Everybody has their own journey." So your journey is not gonna be like someone else's journey, so don't compare yourself. No, I'm saying it, let's respect. Don't compare yourself. Everybody has a different journey. It's just that you gotta be successful in your journey, along your journey, okay? Don't compare yourself. Your journey may be slower than the other person's journey or may be faster. You know, your journey is definitely my journey, right? I went to community colleges. I was in the military, reserves, and it took me that long to get through my free degree in business management. Your journey's different, you know? You went to LSU, political science major, and then went to law school after semester off. What did that semester teach you? I talked to other students about a gap year. And since you had a gap semester, they got a chance for you to reflect yourself. Did you learn something more about yourself being in that gap semester there? Yes, and a little bit of, I guess, background. When I was at LSU, I asked my parents to purchase me a lash class, right? To do eyelash extension. And of course, my mom was like, you know, I come from a family and entrepreneurs and just part workers on. And so my mom was like, what? Like a lash class, like, girl. I'm sending you to LSU. Yes. Now a lash class. But I'm like, I worked at the library, and I was like, well, it's just kind of something fun to do. Fast for, it blew up. I mean, I was doing like, everybody's lashes across campus. It was like, if you were into, you know, influencers, a lot of people are on social media and stuff like that. On social media, I was seeing that there were these girls on, and they were, these people were making a killing off of doing last extensions, having their own brand and just really branching out, you know? And that's when I started to dive into the beauty world. In the beauty world, I mean, makes a lot of money. Let's just be honest. There you go. Hey, make up these girls and making a killing. So that semester off, I actually opened my own last studio. And so yes, I was running my own business. So I did learn a lot about myself. I learned how to submerge myself in entrepreneurship and the craft that I was doing at that time, you know? It was actually a very fun time off. I made some good money before starting off. (laughing) And it was just that time that I really got to explore the creative side of myself, 'cause I didn't know what had one. I was always like, you know, I had friends that are arts and crafty. My friend, she makes clothes. And when I'm telling you, she has like, all these files on TikTok, she's like a mogul, right? She's a mogul in the making. And so I was like, you know, that's not for me. I don't have a creative style, you know? School is all I know, reading, that's all I know. Well, I got to dive into my creativity with that. And so that's what I did. And that's what I did in my gap semester. And then we started pre-law. Once you enroll into law school, you're accepted and you get your, you pay your receipt deposit. Then you have a process of pre-law that starts the summer before that August. So I was doing pre-law that summer, but that's really what I was doing. So yes, I did learn a lot about myself. I think it's important for people to find their niche outside of your profession. That's my niche outside of law school. Whenever I graduate, I plan to open summer last studios and I wanna franchise it. So it's okay to have a niche outside of your profession. And of course, like I said, my mom was like, girl, like you're gonna be a boy, what are you talking about? But we live in a day now where you need to have multiple streams income, okay? - You do, you really do. One stream of income is not gonna do it for you. Once you get to law school, yeah, you may hear lawyer, lawyer, lawyer, but once you get here, you're like, you have some lawyers that don't make anyone. So it's okay to find your niche. I know mine started off a little crazy. They were like, they're probably like, where's this girl going with this, right? But that's where I went with it and I've happened to my creativity. So yes, I did learn a lot about myself. I surprised myself at how good I was at it and just marketing and just really tapping to the entrepreneur side of myself, which I was raised by entrepreneurs. So I knew it was in me, but I didn't want it out. So that's why I did it in my gaps. - Well, I tell you what, you have a lot of nuggets and informational and stuff I've been preaching for a while now, Summer, because you are. Most lawyers, 'cause I have cousins to graduate in law school and got their law degree, but most of the people that graduate from law school, don't even go into law, you know, they're going to corporate lawyer or they become their own businessman. As you know, they become sports ages. They do this and that lot of them do become entrepreneurs. So that's what, I was back in the '80s and '90s when that statistic came out. And I'm going to, you know, every I keep thinking you're going to criminal law, civil law, corporate law, something like that. But most of them become business people. And like I said, the entrepreneur spirit is in you. You grew up in the entrepreneur spirit. You didn't even know you had it. See, that's what you saw around is that your environment makes a huge difference going up. And like I said before, you do need that next. You do need other streams and income. And I took the knowledge spirit, which you treat here on the career education learning center is alive and well. You know, and they make the most money then people just go for you degrees and get a trade or a job. You know, if you get a trade as an electrician, ignition heating or plumbing or something like that, that's, you know, that all is going to be there, then I told people before, you saw it as apprentice, then you learn how to do it yourself, then you train someone and then you're going to have your own business. So then you have one truck and you don't have everything and then you have two trucks, three trucks. Next thing you didn't know, you're a mogul and you got all these trucks running around. You just sit back, collect the money, pass the income and owning everything. And then you 35 was very low to debt to where I went to do the business major. I got all this debt, I don't have it, but my sons and my family members are all this debt coming out 40, $50,000. They don't know how they're going to pay for it if they do job to job and don't know where they're going. And so things turn out differently. But I'm glad you explored your entrepreneurship. That is fantastic. And you dove yourself in there, you took a chance. That's whatever I love about this summer is that you went ahead and say, "Hey, this is what I want to do and enough to do." Let me do something that I felt I didn't know how to do 'cause I want creative and you are creative as you found out, right? You are creative. The ultimate new spirit was in you and that is fantastic how you did that. Before you went to law school, you had to take the LSAT before you were going to law school, get accepted, comes a little bit about that process. - Yeah, so we call it the LSAT. I did have to take the LSAT before entering law school. I believe I've been seeing like articles saying that the class, like, I don't know if it's the, I don't think it's the class that's been admitted now, but the next class, I don't think, I think they're taking the LSAT off the requirements for law school, which is, but yes, I did have to take the LSAT to get into law school. I, my mom had hired me a tutor. So I had a personal tutor to study for it. It was a trying process of-- - Yes, it is. Or any state test you take summer is a trying process. Before I didn't mean to know up here, but before you had to go do it, feel like, and you had the only one, what I think is great is you got help, okay? That's what I try to tell students. Like, if you need help in a certain subject, you need help taking the SAT or ACT or whatever you need in the interest test, take the help, okay? I got licensed, I got my health insurance license, security license, Assistant Street, and my life insurance license. And believe me, I pray that every time you watch those tests, they are not easy. And so people take state tests when the nurses, pharmacists, doctors, lawyers, CPAs, they are stressful, okay? And you got to take the GRE, the LSAT, the MCAT, whatever you're gonna take again, that's another stressful test that you may have to do. So if you can get yourself help, ladies and gentlemen, please get some help and some assistance doing that. And so, that's the way you have to do sometimes in order to succeed what you wanna accomplish, right? You wanna go to law school, part of being law school and only having good grades, but then take the LSAT, as you're saying, before. Now, let me, like I said before, 'cause they're trying to get rid of SAT scores and a lot of school colleges and mixtures now, and maybe they probably getting some schools, law schools might say, we don't want the LSAT, we don't need it no more. But if they do have it, or the school you wanna go to does offer that and say, look, you have to have this LSAT before you come in here, we need to see your score, then that's what you have to take. And so, I think you did a wonderful job. So on students that, hey, whatever assistance you need, get that help. Is there any particular law that you wanna go into, like, do you wanna go into corporate law, or do you wanna go to civil or criminal law, or you just haven't made up your mind yet? - So when I first entered law school, I wanted to be a criminal defense attorney. I was set on doing criminal law, right? Then I had a epiphany, I was like, I don't think I'm gonna do that anymore. Which, a lot of people will tell you, when you come into law school that, you know, yes, you may have all these ideas, like, I'm gonna do this, this, this, but just as you go through your manipulation, you just kinda change your mind. And so, now, I'm thinking about doing, I wanted to tax law, I'm interested in health law, and I'm interested in real estate law. The part of health law I wanna go in is really kind of a specialty field. And so, of course, I've made my mind up to that. I don't really wanna work for anybody. I'm thinking that I wanna open up a firm about my specialty being the health law sector, but that we also kinda do a little bit of tax law, I'm gonna stay as well. So, that's my plan, but also in the field of law, you kinda learn that you need to be open, because it's just so much to learn and let's say, let's say you get a job, right, for a firm, and they don't practice what you wanna practice. So then, then you just, let's say that's your only job offer, do you just not accept the job, because they don't wanna, they don't practice that specific type of law that you want to practice? No, you don't do that, especially if you don't have, you know, a 4.0 GPA coming out of law school, and your jobs are just not enough. If you don't have that, then you have to go with what's there in front of you. So, they teach us to be open. You never go into an interview with a firm, or an internship, because throughout the summer's a law school, you usually do internships. And so, you never go into an interview with a firm, or any employer, and say, oh, this is exactly what I want to do. You always want to say that you're open, you know? Right, and that makes sense, that really does make sense. And that's one thing that you have to be open, and you will change your mind. And I would like to tell, remind my audience that you're gonna change your mind throughout your life, okay? Look at me, I mean, I mainly been in corporate, I've been in retail management, I came out summer, then I got into banking and finance, which were my major, basically, business management. And then, I went to be a financial representative. And now, I'm doing my hand entrepreneurship, and I'm 50 plus, okay? I know a lot younger, y'all, and I'm thankful for, God gave me good genes, and my parents gave me good genes, but I'm a little bit old, okay? And so, I've been around, and I have a lot of jobs in between there. And so, you have a right to change your mind, you just don't know, you're young, you don't know what you want to do. And so, always keep an open mind there. And tomorrow, internship and conferences, you attended the American Bar Association Conference, how was that? - That was actually my first American Bar Association Conference. It was with the health law section, 'cause I mentioned that I'm interested in health law. I'm so grateful to my mentor, and one of my professors, Professor Kimberly Lamont, who's a pharmacist and a lawyer. - Wow, that's a combination. That is, I never heard that combination before. Only here in the career case, I learned this in the podcast. Can you hear that type of combination? I have not heard that before. I aren't either, or, but not both. - She's a pharmacist. She, pharmacy was her first profession. Then she turned around, was like, I'm gonna go to law school, so she was at law school, you know, kind of in her later age. But, yes, she's a pharmacist and a lawyer. I also have a professor that's a retired OBGYN and a lawyer and a professor. But anyways, we're not even gonna dive too much deeper to that, but that's a big giant, right? That I have in front of me, it's just, it's mine, it's mind-boggling. But, the American Bar Association Health Law Section Conference was great. I learned a lot, I learned a lot about the health law professionals that are within my area. They were so nice, so that was like something very big for me because lawyers, I'm not gonna say what they're not usually nice, but, sometimes as a law student, I will say, you find kind of struggle to try to, you know, introduce yourself to these big giants, because networking is a part of the profession. It is the profession. So, you know, you have to kind of put yourself out there, but, you know, it's like, a law student walking up to a judge, you're like, "What do I say?" You know, like, "What do I say?" Or, a law student walking up to a attorney that has this reputation of the government and has been practiced in 20 plus years. You might get caught up on your words a little bit, but these people were so nice. They approached us, you know, they offered us, you know, so much, so many hands to help. They were just like, reach out to us, email us, you know, so that was a different, that was different for me. It was a different change in scenery, different experience, so I was really appreciative to them for that. And I was telling my professor, I hope that we are able to go next year as well, 'cause it was just a great opportunity. It was great. I learned a lot about AI and health law, which is a huge thing now, or AI in any profession. - Right. - As lawyers, it seems to be getting us in more trouble. I don't know if there's been some headlining stories about using AI for their positions, for their cases, and that hasn't worked out too well for them, so I think we're gonna go ahead and stay away from it. It has been helpful in other professions, so I learned a lot, it was a great experience, and I can't wait to go again. - That is, and I encourage that too. I encourage young people to go to many conferences, internships, co-ops, anything to immerse yourself in the field which you wanna seek, right? You wanna immerse yourself, learn as much as possible, and yeah, and some of them feel bad. I mean, it's a business major. When I meet somebody, or entrepreneur that's doing millions of dollars, or a bit time, vice president or company, whatever, everybody's intimidated in any field, right? If I'm gonna be a doctor, I'm gonna be a little intern, or I'm a resident, and I had to go to this bit time, sir, do you know, in between plus years, all these awards, we all get down in time. It happened to the best of us. I'm pretty sure it happened to you. Another thing I read in your profile is that you're a member of the Black Law Student Association. Is that correct? - Yes, I'm actually newly elected president of the Black Law Student Association at Southern University Law Center. It's a national organization, so we have individual chapters at our actual school, and I'm chapter, I mean, I'm president of the chapter at our school. Basically, how I like to think about it, how I introduced it to the incoming one else, is, you know, in my induction speech for them last year, I had to do a little opening speech, and it's one part of it that really sticks with me, and I told them, if you are not anything, you're a Black Law Student first, and there's so much power in that, because I have to go to a HBCU for the listeners, so a majority of our students are African Americans. And so, it's basically, I wanna stay a space space for Black Law students, and you know, a lot of our students say, you know, well, we already go to HBCU, why will we join the Black Law students? - Yeah, first question everybody will ask. - Yeah, and my counter to that is, yes, we go to HBCU, but we do have other ethnicities at our school, and so that is like our hug, you know? - Yeah, mm-hmm. - Because HBCU doesn't mean it's always our own, you know, yes, it was built for us, but we still have to share these spaces, and a law school classroom is in Yosemite. And so, when you go, we join organizations like these, like you really hear their perspectives of us, you know, other Black Law students across the country, that's another thing, it's also a network opportunity. These are just not law students, that's just in Louisiana. They're in, and not to mention, some of these are Harvard Law students, some of these are Yale Law students, 'cause they all have Black Law student chapters. So, it's law schools across the nation. And so, it's a great network working opportunity, it's a hub, they also have their own executive board position. So, you can run for parliamentarian of national Black Law students, you know? So, it's a great opportunity, there's a lot of connections in there that once I just wanna reiterate, just for us, and so, it's just a great organization. So, I counter that argument every time I get it, why would you get it? What do you mean? - I think it made a lot of sense. Once you explain it, they explain it to them, it makes a lot of sense. Well, what I wanna say is that, when you talk about Black Law students, you know what I'm saying? And like you said, it's throughout the country. Then you get to learn from other people, their experiences, the going to Harvard, going to Yale, which for to be the top law schools, right? And see you hear that by their experiences, and it is a great networking. I don't care what profession you're in, you're going to have to network. I tell my son that, if you're gonna be in entertainment, it's networking. You're gonna be in business, it's networking. In any profession, in any minute doctor lords, you have to network. And any networking system that you can be a part of is gonna help you down the road, believe me. You know, I even read a book about that, you know, at far it's networking. Especially in my profession, being an entrepreneur, you got a network, right? And so, networking is just part of the capitalist system that we have in America. And if you are not networking, believe me, you're gonna be far behind, because those opportunities that someone able to give you, that you need that break at that one time, is not gonna be there. It's not gonna land in your lap somewhere. I tell my son that all the time. You got to get that network, and not gonna just fall from the sky, or somebody gonna call you, or email, come in. Hey, come on here. You know, we want you to do this. Who wants you to do that? No, you want to go out there and network, introduce yourself. I also know that you participated in a playtime over this. This is a big lead, something like that. What is, do you remember that thing about that? Yeah, so, that was a program that I held for our chapter of the Black Law School Association at Southern University Law Center that basically introduced them to the big law rounds. Big law is basically, and I'm not interested in big law, so, you know, I just have a kind of an overview. But big law is basically your big time law firm. I mean, they may have offices, you know, in other countries, but they are the best or the best attorneys you have to, in order to even be considered for employment there, you have to be the top seven to 10% of your law school class, graduating class. Your GPA has to be, you know, I don't know exact numbers, but you have to be up there. You know, if you're in the 10% top of the class, then your GPA is already up there. So you have to be an exceptional student. It's one of those things, you know, you can hear a lot about how, you know, like you just said, connections, get you to where you want to go. I will say that connections in big law, I'm not gonna say that they don't matter, but I can't say that they'll get you a job. I can't do that. That's just because how tight knit it is. They care about, they care about what's on black and white. They care about the GPA, they care about the transcript. You know, some places you go, they don't, I'm not gonna say they don't care, but it's not the end-all, be-all. - Right, it's not the first priority there, right? - They're not the first priority. And these law firms gonna do each one different how they wanna do it. If you bet time, no, they want the best of the best, of course, you know? - Right. - And so what I think what you're doing there, you getting the opportunity, okay, now if this is what you wanna do, and this is what you wanna see, I'm gonna show you what you need to do. This is what it takes to be in that type of law firm, in that type of environment. And that's great, again, you give them the options to where, you know, and like I said, somehow they wanna be there, and then they realize, hey, I don't wanna work for a big law firm, or somebody who said, I wanna my own law firm, hey, maybe I wanna work for that big law firm first before I got on my own. So I think the thing that you're doing a great summer is getting the options in order to see what they really wanna do. Because like you said, you don't ever change it. You know, even throughout law school, right? Doctors change all the time, you know? Then it's change all the time, you know? Somebody wanna be a pediatrician then the street, or they say, oh, I'm not going that way, or I wanna be a pediatrician, or I wanna be a surgeon. And they're getting a medical school and they say, nope, that's not for me. And so like I can't give you a lot of opportunities to see what's out there. And then you can make the decision yourself. Do you wanna go that route, or do you not wanna go that route? - Right. - But let me ask you this summer, 'cause you're such a serious person. What do you do for fun? 'Cause all these guys are gonna let me say, well, summer is so serious, see it's so boom, boom, boom, boom. But I'm pretty sure that summer I have some fun. What are some of your hobbies or some things that you like to do to get you loose? - Well, I mean, I do, you know, spending time with friends. A lot of my, you know, we all have our in-law school, everybody has their group. They're groups that, you know, they study with, that they really get through these three years because I can't stress how, you know, just challenging they are. - Why? - I mean, that's for a group and it is the only people, only people that are really gonna understand what you're going through is the people that are in school with you. So those friends, you know, we hang out some days, we'll be like, you know, we're not doing anything. We're just gonna, you know, kind of gather and we're just gonna chill. I will say, you know, I talked about lashing earlier in the project and I can't really do that as much. You know, I may do a friend here or there, but I can't because law school is just so, it's time to do that. So I'm not able to do that as much. So I would say the most, what I do the most is probably just hang out with friends, kind of just fellowship. I'll go home every now and again, be with my dog and be with my parents and my sister and just, you know, go chill. And so I do things like that. - That's good though, that's good. I think because when you're in a stressful, going to law school, medical school, or anybody going to any graduate school, there has to be somewhere you have to relieve that stress, you know, and whatever hobbies where there's reading, going to play basketball with friends or video games, or whatever you enjoy doing, you know, you have to do that because you can't, you would just, I won't say go crazy, but you'd be so wound up that you're going to just burn yourself out, you know. And so you have to have these stress relievers, what, you know, in between times because here come a major test, here come a major test and that. And so I just want my orders to know that, hey, even though you may be attending law school or medical school or any type of graduate school, then you have to allow yourself that free time, allow yourself to taste some breeders in between there. - Definitely. - But summer is so great having you on our show today. Do you have any parting words of wisdom for students who may want to go to law school? - Yes, you know, I know I've talked a lot today about, you know, challenges and it being rigorous, but my mom always tells me anything worth having is never easy. So I want you to keep that in your mind, you know, if you want to, whatever your goals are, go and achieve them, do it, you know, I like to say hustle, hustle. Do what you have to do and you'll be fine, keep God first. That's a person of you of mine, you know, I know not everybody relates. However, for me, I feel like, you know, when I can't pull my strength from anywhere else, that's where I pull it from. So I would just say just keep going, don't look back and you miss 100% of the shots that you don't take. - I like that, I like that very much. And you're like, I mean, if you have faith, and I'm like, you know, I put my faith first, I'm not about it, you know, I put God first and I would say God, family, work and everybody else go first because if, I don't know how people who don't have faith make it, but I had to have my faith, you know what I'm saying? I didn't have God in my life, you know, 'cause I'm a Christian person. And so Jesus is number one in my life, even to do this podcast. So I'm all this, no, hey, whatever faith you have and I'm a Christian, so not gonna be a Christian faith, you know, you may have to use that. In fact, I know you will not use that to get to life as I'm a 50 years old. If you have children, you may have children, oh, you're gonna definitely need your faith. So hey, whatever you can do to make it in this lifetime here, there are many job opportunities out there. And what we wanna do here in the Creative Education Learning Center is to present those opportunities to you. Whether we have professionals or students, we want you to know that, hey, you can make it whatever way you can. So my thank you so much for coming out, so I really do appreciate it. - Thank you for having me, it's been my pleasure. - Well, and I also like to thank our supporters this past week when we had our capital campaign fund for the podcast. Those supporters are Steve Trautman and LaKee Selenium. Thank you so much for your financial support. And if you wanna become a financial supporter of our podcast, use going on our website, www.careereducationlearningcenter.com. And lastly, I like to thank our viewers and listeners for joining me, Mitchell Rivers, on another great episode on the Career Education Learning Center podcast, where we're making your career dreams and reality, God bless. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
