This was a tough one. [MUSIC] >> The fan morning show sports at 5.9 in the fan band. It's Frank Gunnar, Blue Jays continuing their series against the Orioles tonight in Baltimore. But who cares about the baseball game? Okay, it's a base. Unless we see some of the players that were acquired yesterday, like Jake Boss, no, he's not. Although he was just scratched, like he's on turn to start at any moment. Joey Lauperfito, will he be in the lineup? Will Wagner, probably slated for Triple A, anyways. A nice narrative turn for Ross Atkins for one day. And is it him pulling the strings? Blue Jays have a guy in the organization who knows the Astros system pretty well. >> I've heard. >> Hey, he's the general manager. His name's James Kleyk. >> The architect, if you. >> At the very least, like James Kleyk was very involved in these discussions, you would think. Also, there's no Brad for living of it. It's not like the, apparently Dana Brown has no problems trading with the guy. >> That's nice. >> That used to be the big boss man in the place that he's at. >> That's very nice. >> Yeah, must be nice. Anyways, Ross Atkins' job is certainly in jeopardy. I think we can all agree to that point that there will be an interesting discussion at the end of the season. Maybe it shouldn't be a discussion, but it appears to be because he still has the job at the moment. Does the fact that he still has the job at the moment at a pretty critical juncture in this franchise's history indicate anything to you about his job status at the conclusion of this season? >> No, I think there are two names that can change that. If there's a world where there's a gosmin or a basset trade made today, I think that's a very different threshold of responsibility than ridding yourself of the players that'll be free agents at the end of the year and trying to extract as much value as you can for them. You know, this UK, you say kakuchi trade, we think it's a hall, it has every potential to be, but if they extracted the lesser value than that, this isn't something that sets the franchise back for a decade or five years or something like that. This can move them ahead, and it seems like he's done a very good job here, but I also don't think this was a fork in the road moment. Here's the GM of the team, and if you weren't going to fire him after the kind of disastrous, you know, a disastrous start to the year right off the hop, then he's going to be the GM of the team through at the very least the end of the season. But because every guy he traded with the exception of Pearson unless I'm missing somebody was as good as gone at the end of the year anyways, then I don't, it does not change anything for me. You? Uh, I mean, again, it being the Astros, what's like, it's, I'm scratching my head a little bit at that, like the best move that they've consummated was with the Astros. The team that they've, you know, they once extracted a Teosco Hernandez from is very interesting. I also wonder whether this could potentially save his job. Like, what if, what if Joey Loperfito has an incredible couple of months and Jake Bloss is, you know, American League pitcher of the month for two consecutive months in August and September. And Will Wagner is a major league caliber player and the Blue Jays like finished the season 500 or slightly above 500 against there has the die already been cast with Ross Atkins, I think is an interesting question. Here's my personal belief. Okay. I don't think he's getting fired either way. Now that's not, I didn't say I wouldn't fire him. This is a very important point of distinction. Here are the people I would fire. Okay. Everybody. Uh, no. I could just, just about everybody. Yeah. I wouldn't fire Pete Walker. Pete Walker can stay. He can be like the Will Smith meme. He can stand in the room with nobody else. Well, you were gone because of that. I joked that that was me and Santos like as I was gone. You were always gone. It was just me and Santos were Will Smith weaming at each other. No, that can be Pete Walker. Pete Walker can be standing alone and he can be part of the next coaching staff. But yeah, managers got to go, Don Mattingly's got to go. Everybody like clean house. Ross Atkins gots to go. Yes, just further. I would also like to state my objective opinion on the matter. And it's the same one that you have. I would be firing him in a heartbeat. I would have made the change last off season. Yeah. I think there was a real easy off ramp there. When it came to Ross Atkins and the way he put his foot in his melt multiple times in media availabilities at the conclusion of that twin series. Anyways, they didn't do it then. Which I think actually is informative as to what Mark Shapiro is going to decide to do here. It's a guy that is not impacted by public pressure. And to a large extent, you shouldn't be, right? You're supposed to be above the fray. But I think when you have the track record and you put this organization in the state that it's in, which is like no good with not a huge future. And they're trying to accumulate assets to make them not one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball, which they are. It's bad when you're no good and you have no prospects, which is where the Blue Jays still are, but less are now when they've acquired a couple of the day before the deadline. But I don't think Mark Shapiro is going to fire anybody. I think you're at least starting next season with John Schneider as the manager and Ross Atkins as general manager. That would be my guess. And I think the fact that he's still at the helm here considering the capable people that are already in this organization. And one in particular who's been in the big chair and has a World Series ring to show for it. And James Click, I think tells you that I'm sorry, Blue Jays fans, and maybe this is going to be part of the messaging from Mark Shapiro at the end of the season. He's going to be like, this is an awful season. Start, finish, no question. And our expectations were higher than what we achieved, which is nothing this year. But look at the place that we put ourselves in with these guys that you thought had limited value. We were able to, we got a top 100 prospects. Somebody who today might be better in the major leagues than the guy we traded away. Plus two other guys. And who knows what else they have in store before six o'clock today. I think this is going to be part of the messaging at the end of the season that Mark Shapiro presents to us in his reasoning for not firing Ross Atkins. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's entirely possible. I don't want to hear that. I think that the reason that, I think the reason I dislike that idea so much is that, and maybe we're wrong in this thinking, but it seems to be like, well, if Atkins goes, click, we'll slide in and take over. And my belief on the matter is, well, does he do anything here or not? And I asked that about James Click. Because if he, if his job is of import and he is making decisions or at least shaping the decisions that are being made, then he asked to wear this just as much as Ross Atkins does. And I think we've kind of moved away as much. Ross Atkins has the ultimate say. Okay, but I, I need to hear the like backroom story of two or three moments where Click was vehemently against a move that we all dislike. That is my problem always with elevating a system. But he hasn't been here the whole time either. Ross Atkins has been here for almost a decade. Yet, no, I under, I understand that clicks, it click didn't come as part of the Cleveland package. I'm aware of that. But I also think that either he has been sitting on his hands, biting his time, sharpening his knives, waiting to take this big job and just saying, all right, I'll go with the flow, whatever it takes to kind of stay in the org and, and be ready to take over this job. If that's your belief, then okay, it can be James Click. But I'd imagine he, again, does he have as much say as Atkins and Shapiro? Of course not, or they would give him that job. But I don't think his say is nothing. I don't think you bring in a guy with the bona fides that James Click has to not have him be a very important part of the decision making process again, not final say. But I have just as much of a problem or maybe not just as much, but 85% as much of a problem as it being clicked than I would with Atkins, honestly, I don't at all. James Click was hired in February of 2023. James Click is around for this season, this season only. And James Click is not the general manager, it's Ross Atkins team. Ross, like if this was the one off season, say the Blue Jays had made a bunch of American league championship series and won a bunch of American league East titles over the last eight years. It's a different conversation around Ross Atkins. Yep. Ross Atkins took over at the conclusion of what was previously a rejuvenation of the franchise in 15. They took over at the conclusion of that year, obviously, and they made the playoffs and they did make an American league championship series in 2016 with the remnants of whatever was left over from 2015. And obviously that was a decaying core and it blew up on them. Yes. And then they were given the opportunity to rebuild entirely. Take as long as you want, whatever. We were good again. People are coming to the ballpark. They're excited. We know we saw a proof of concept in 15 and 16 that people will show up for this team. So just do that again. And you have a couple of very exciting prospects in Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Boba Chet and Cavan Bijio turning from an organizational guy into a potential major league caliber player. And they took that and there was some excitement in making the playoffs in the weirdo 2020 season and then circumstances weirdo, they missed the playoffs by just a game of 2021. They didn't win not just like a playoff game. They didn't win a divisional title where they were in the situation the Orioles are in right now. Yep. It is not an unfair comparison to talk about the 2023, 2024 and beyond Baltimore Orioles being what the Blue Jays were in 2021 in 2022 in 2023 with this great young talent and beyond that. I mean, now the Orioles, I guess, have deeper pockets because the new ownership, they had the ability to spend. They had a great ballpark and the renovations were on the way. And what Ross Atkins did with that is win no division titles, win no playoff games and be worse year over year over year, not technically because they actually did eventually make the playoffs after missing by a game in 21. But a couple of short years later, they were in a spot where they're just no good and they have no farm system and you've had a decade to create that. So that's that guy. The other guy won a World Series is a general manager, the Houston Astros, and has been here for a year and a half, not as the ultimate decider to put any of this on James Click is frankly insane. I don't know how you can put anything on James Click. I don't put it on him. But clearly he either does not have enough say or does not like, I guess it's just not either. He doesn't have enough. He's not the general manager. Of course, he doesn't have enough say. I do not want I load the idea of bringing someone within an org that has proven again to the everything you just laid out that is proven. Now he has proven it in Houston. I understand that. I also think the situation in Houston is very different than the one you're dealing with in Toronto of overpaying for free agents and everything that goes into that. I'm not saying the James Click would be some unmitigated disaster. That is not where I'm going with this. But where I am going with this is if you're going to make a change, make a clean break change. Don't move some guy over one chair, which is what it seems like they would be doing the best the case. The whole time though, that's the thing. He's already fresh eyes on this thing. He's fresh eyes. It's like, okay, was he involved in, I guess, the pursuit of showing Tony and that gummy up the works this past off season, maybe, I don't know, again, he's not the general manager. He doesn't have the ultimate deciding power. That's the general manager who is here for the entire he's already done a bit tear down and build up. But the general manager doesn't have the ultimate deciding power because Mark Shapiro exists and he's not the president of business. He's the president of the baseball team. So there is a layer of decision making beyond beyond what Atkins does. Like, I understand the idea that if it is a, you know, if we're going to do this of like, you know, death con sales, it's like a six out of 10, then he doesn't have to take it all the way upstairs. But there are moves that do have to do that. Again, I'm not sitting here and saying, James, click would be some disaster. I'm saying, if you're going to start over and you're going to have a new set of eyes, don't have it be someone that's been here for two years. Have it be truly a new set of eyes? That's my opinion. So you're saying fire Mike, Mark Shapiro, I actually can go ahead with the belief that Shapiro can conduct a GM search. I just would like it to be a search and not be the first guy that was available and not to make everything about the Leafs. But this was always my biggest point of contention with hiring Brad your living when they did. And that seems to be working out. Okay. At the very least, I look at it and I look at it and I say that this is a, I want a clean, fresh set of eyes. And I think Shapiro can search for it. I just don't want him picking the guy that's right there in front of him. I want there to be a true search. And when the Leafs had to make their change, they kind of were forced into making it really, really quickly. And not that the Blue Jays would be, but I'd like them to take their time and be exhausted with this, not just give it to the guy who's here. We'll see. We'll see if Ross Hopkins is fired again. I don't think he will be. I don't disagree just to put a pin on it as well. All right. In about 15 minutes time, Canadian men's basketball team trying to keep their perfect record intact, they got Australia. We just saw Spain out last Greece in group play in the Paris Olympics. Let's talk to Doug Smith of the Toronto Star. How's it going, Doug? I'm bad guys. How are you? I'm good. So we saw the Canadian men build a big lead against Greece and then just barely hold on at the end. How much better do you think they need to be to reach their ultimate goal, which is a medal, if not a gold medal? Oh, a little bit better, but I think they committed far too many fouls and then that game against Greece. I guess three guys followed out. They let the Greece shoot too many free throws. So that's an issue they got to clean up. I think their offense stuck a little bit at times in that game, but I think that's familiarity most more than anything. I think they'll be fine to three games in this tournament. They have to tighten up some things for sure, but they don't need to be drastically much better than they were. Yeah. You mentioned the familiarity and continuity or a little bit lack thereof. I think the guy who maybe fairly, maybe unfairly kind of became the epicenter for that in that game was Jamal Murray. This is a guy who hasn't had the run going back to last year's World Cup. Obviously, there was the injury and kind of ramping up his or the fitness and kind of ramping up his health towards this tournament. How do you feel he has kind of fit with the team through what we saw in that game and how big of an indicator will the fit be based on what we see today against Australia? I think they're handling them pretty well. Actually, they ramping them up very slowly. You play seven minutes with one preseason game or exhibition game. I think you might have played what 13 or 14 the other day. I think probably see them to 19 or 20 minutes in today and you know, as the tournament goes and they play their next three or four games, they'll get more run and get more time with these guys. And I think the one thing about the Canadian players that they're all smart players. They know how to play the game. So those are going to take a long time to figure it out where where each other is going to be, where the right pass should be, where the next pass should be. I think that guys have played a lot of basketball and they know what they do. So I don't think I think you seem stretched out minute wise, but once they start playing they're playing and I think they'll figure it out pretty quickly. So we saw at times the that Canadian team looked locked down, right? Like they obviously have one of the best players in the world and she'll just Alexander. That's their biggest advantage over anybody. But we saw Lou Dort and Dylan Brooks on the court at the same time. Like this appears to be a team that at times can be one of the best defensive teams in this tournament, Doug. Like is that one? Like if you were going down the packing order of this team's strengths, how high up the list would their ability to lock down an opponent be? That's kind of bad. The most important thing can play very physically deep physical defense with Dort with Brooks. RJ Merritt's a tough, tough defender in FEMA basketball. He knows what he can get away with, what he can't get away with. I think a guy like Dwight Owl undersized, but he knows how to get guys and knows how to get for a ball. I think the defense is going to let this team have great, great success if they get into the quarterfinals in the middle round because they got a lot of multiple defenders who can get just into people that they put a lot of ball pressure on, which slow teams up running their offense. I think that the thing that's going to separate them, I think, from the others, from the greases, Serbia's, even the Americans is going to be the way they guard people and they got a guard without fouling, as I mentioned, that's the first game. But I think once they use the calls again, that's going to get fixed. You mentioned RJ Merritt there for, for years, this felt like Kelly Olinnik of what I'm about to ask you about. He's just a little longer than the tooth now is Barrett, the guy who, who kind of takes an extra step in FEMA. And I don't say that to diminish what SGA has done, but just based on the different rules of the game. And again, like Kelly Olinnik felt like a head, I shouldn't say head and shoulder, because I don't want to denigrate what he did in the NBA, but it felt like he kind of really thrived with some of the different spacing in, in FEMA is Barrett, maybe the guy who thrives the most off the, the different rules on this team, or does somebody else come to mind for you? I think RJ, because he's played for so long, like he's been around the program for a lot of years and played a lot of big games. He won a world championship with the under 19 team, and the after 17, 2019, that is one of my favorite, favorite hidden Canadian great sports moments was RJ Barrett was as young as can be leading that group. That was, that is one of my favorite moments, Doug, I'm always happy whenever anybody brings it up. Yeah, so, so he knows, he knows what it takes at this level, and he's done it for a long time. And there's a pride in him for playing can't per Canada, but I think it's huge. I think he's a huge factor for this Canadian team, and I think he will be as a tournament goes on. He's been there before, and he's done it, and he knows what he has to do. And I think he, he tends to, in the free of a game, not to drive, not to try too much, but he certainly knows how much to try, to try when they need him. Like this, this team is just littered with NBA players, obviously. And just about all of them are the, that are eligible to play for Canada are there. Of course, we know Andrew Wiggins was forced to, to take himself out of consideration here. And Jamal Murray was not part of the lead up, but yeah, he's, he's tried to, to be part of this team and, and nobody had a problem with him just parachuting into the Olympic team. And there was no Shae Gil just Alexander though, Doug, like what would this team look like? Like there's so much depth of talent, and this is the golden generation. It's not a golden guy, but like if there was no SGA, what does this team look like? I think they'd be life and death for the quarterfinals because you need that alpha guy. You need that guy, and, and Shae just has this thing about him, then he brings teammates along with him. And I think, yeah, he's our, he is our most lethal player, and I also, he's, he's the guy, I think, who gets everybody organized. And you need that so much. And we saw it 24 years ago with Steve Nash, you need that guy to get the thing together. And Shae was this guy at the World Cup, but he is this guy right now. And I think he probably will be at the World Cup in 27 and probably get in LA in 28. He's the guy that the engine that, that gets it being this thing running the right way. So we've seen some of the other games again. We saw Spain beat Greece earlier today, we saw the Americans win, and yeah, they haven't played Jason Tatum, Tyree's Halliburton didn't get into that game. But looking at some of the, the other action and the way the results have fallen, well, first of all, do you have any idea what today's Spain result means for Canada's ability to get out of the group? And secondarily, like how do they stack up after now having a sample of, of these games with everybody playing 100%? How, how does Canada feel like it stacks up now that we've seen the results? I think, I think there were a lot of us thought they were at the start. There's any, any number of four or five teams that can win the gold medal and Canada is one of them. I think France is going to get really good. The Americans, other Americans obviously, like serving in played particularly well against the States, a guy drilled, but they're still going to be pretty dangerous. And Andy, you can't, you still can't count out, can't out Spain because they've been there, been there before and done it so much. You can't, I think, is absolutely right on the second, but this team is, talent wise, it might be the second best team in the Olympics behind, behind the Americans. It's playing that great game on a great moment to do you got to play it. And once you get in there, who knows, all bets are off when you're getting to a knock off quarter, a knock off quarter final round, it's match up. It's a, it's a hot hand, you, you mentioned RJ going off against the Americans in Egypt in the World Cup was unbelievable. If you get that kind of performance, you're going to win a tournament. Yeah. And on the other side of it, I've seen Thomas Satteransky give it to us for Czechia. So hey, international basketball, it's a fun, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a fun animal. You know, you mentioned SGA and obviously he is the tip of the spear for this, this Canadian team here. It's always interesting having breakout conversations about someone who is as famous, you know, borderline globally as he is just with the reach of the NBA. He won the Northern Star Award last year, but it does feel like with a truly transcendent performance and it just has to be that one game against a team of note and, you know, winning a medal here. Do you think that there's a kind of another level he can rise in the Canadian consciousness? You know, I always go to like the mom test on this, right? And it's like, my mom can name a ton of Olympians. She might be able to, David, some players in the NBA. I don't think Shay Gil just Alexander is on the, the tip of her tongue, but I do wonder if doing something in the Olympics can kind of change his perception here as great as it is elsewhere. Yeah, you know, you're probably right because it's the Olympics, but I think if you talk to casual basketball fans around the world for sure, they saw the, they saw the World Cup. That's the thing. That's the basketball thing. The Olympics are the Olympics in North America. They are it. Don't question about it. It's like it's the, it's the TV show. It's a thing every watch is a great time of year. So yeah, absolutely a big Olympics makes him far more famous and Canada to casual sports fans. But basketball people got, they saw him at that World Cup and went, Oh my God, this guy is top five players on Earth. And that's, that's going to be continued, I think, through now through, through these Olympics. For you let you go. The women's team with a tough debut to their tournament losing by 21 to France yesterday. So they made now four straight Olympic games, but the results have been eighth, seventh, ninth and now getting blown out in their first game by 21. I mean, what's going on with this program that obviously has higher aspirations than they've been able to achieve at the Olympics. They got to figure out the things. I think they, they, I think they had 25 turnovers just after doing the Canback, you cannot survive doing that. Their guard plays question. They don't handle pressure very well. I think they got to tighten the rotation. I think playing 11 guys is not, they're not the best use of that talent on the roster. Yeah, I think they're on top. They got to get Australia and Nigeria, but you get to wins and you get into quarterfinals and you see, then you see who you play and where you are. And you know, in the two times they got to the quarterfinals in London and Rio, the first time in London, they played in the United States. You can't beat them. The United States are, they're a lock to win a gold medal. Everyone picks a gold two. There's no question about it. And everybody knows it. And in Rio, they, they played a bad fourth quarter against France and loss in a quarter final. Once you get there, who knows what happens, but they got a lot of work to get there. A lot of work to do to get there and they got to tighten up the ball handling. And I think they got to go with their top seven, eight or nine players. I think playing 10 guys is not on that roster is probably not the best use of the personnel. Doug, appreciate this. How does this, this tip off time work for, for your normal schedules? Is this like, are you normally up at this time? You know, actually I am, but the five I am going to be talking if they ever get one, but seven, seven three is no problem at all. I didn't do, but I do want to mention one thing before we go. Yes. Today, the women's three by three team starts that's the Olympic medal locking basketball for Canada. Yeah. They are so, they are so good. You watch the slow women, they are, they win every World Cup. They're, they're in every World Cup series that they're in the finals. They're really, really good. And I think over a five day tournament, make people got to pay attention to that team, because they're, they're really, really good. Uh, thanks for giving us the heads up. Uh, appreciate the time, Don. All right. Anytime. Well, not anytime. Anytime. No, you said it. You can't take it back. You said it. I'm walking in every day. There you go. See you, Doug. All right, guys. Take care. You too. Doug Smith of the Toronto Star. Yeah. The three on three thing is, you, you alerted me to Jimmer playing on the, on the men's side for America, which again, like I, I actually want that to be like a position that is handed down. Just like whatever guy is just chucking it for some program where he's like, like not going to make it in the NBA, or as what he wants to be, just make that your legacy. It's, uh, I can't do it because obviously just like physically being possible, but like, and, and the big team medal is more important, I guess, than the three on three, but yeah, wouldn't it be awesome to see all the best NBA players playing three on three? I actually, I'm going to, I'm going to take your idea and slightly tweak it. Okay. I think what you have to do is you have to take, I don't know how many, I don't know how many players actually make up the team of three on three, but whatever the number is, just take that number of the most aggrieved Americans that did not make a team. You know, who could probably play for Jason Brown? Yeah. And Jason Davis just chilling. No, but I like that. See, this isn't something I haven't really talked about because it's like probably making something out of nothing here, but I can't get away from the subplot of the minutes involved with the American team and the inviting that it's going to cause among the Boston Celtics of like, Jason Tatum never saying it, but like, yeah, your finals MVP, but like who made America? And he's like, whatever made America kind of rot on the bench. You think I, I couldn't have done that. He's playing more than you and Derek White's sitting there going, well, what did I do? I just played great defense for you guys and try. I don't bring me into this and Steve Kerr at the heart of it all and some Phil Jackson stuff. I'll be honest, I don't know what three on three looks like. Like do they play full court? No, it's a half. It's like, it's like, you know, I'm like vaguely aware of seeing some clips. It's like, yeah, I love playing pickup basketball when I was a kid. It's like, if you're playing it, it's kind of like, you got to clear it. Yeah. It's my understanding. You got a clear three point line is my understanding. I could be totally off base in that, but that is my understanding. And I kind of don't want to make you mess. I don't know what you want them playing. You want them playing full court? Is that because that less? I don't know. What do you want in that? Do you want there to be a line other than the three point line? They have to clear it past. I guess, yeah, it would be constantly like everybody out and running. You would be exhausted if you played full court three on three or I would just again, if I'm America, I would just pick the longest wing defender you could find and then kind of play two on three the whole game. Well, one guy just cheats for offense. Yeah. That's what I would do. It's about three on three. Thanks to Doug Smith for alerting me. Good job. So the fact that it exists. Yes. This was a flag football, which, yeah, I mean, should involve the NFL players, obviously. Like how sweet would that be? No, again, like I wholeheartedly disagree on this. I think that I think they should do this like they used to do Olympic teams. Like, you know, when Canada said our like hockey team to the 1950 Olympics, it was just like whoever won the championship. There should be a national, like let the NCAA run it, a national intramural flag football championship and whoever is like the best flash football player in for like Colgate or whatever, like, you know, because all the good football guys would be playing somewhere you'd imagine. Right. Like that's what I want. I don't, this is part of the problem. Like I love in the real sports that we watch all the time. Yes. Give me all the guys like I want the NBA players there. I want the NHL players there, I would love a world where baseball was in the Olympics in the middle of the summer with Bryce Harper and Mike Trout losing because he's Mike Trout. And that's all he knows how to do is be on losing teams. I love that world. But in these sports where it is a niche sport of a sport that we follow more, let these people have their shine. So I know I'm kind of talking a little bit of both sides of my mouth. But yeah, I just want like the intramural champions for three on three and for flag football to represent America and Canada, I don't know what they got going on over in Europe regarding flag football. Let them figure that out. I would like to see Jason saying him yam on somebody in three on three basketballs throw it off the backboard to himself. Just disrespectful. It should be like nerf football. You should play with those nerf footballs with the tail. Yeah, that's nice. All right. Will we come back? We'll make up more Olympics sports that we'd like to know. No, you have a topic probably not. There was Olympic basketball, Vladimir Guerrero, junior could play for Team Canada basketball. Did I say basketball? You did. Well, he could also like he is factually, you know, eligible. This is true, but he would probably more of a three on three player prefer to play baseball, I would think. And Canada would be happy to have especially the way he's going right now, which is ridiculous. He's fulfilling all of the promise. And he's headed into the final year of his team control. Is that the number one topic for the Blue Jays this offseason? That and you know, like they rebuilding an entire bullpen, adding a bunch of starters and like three bats at least. And what does that do as far as the conversation around Boba shed if in fact, flat gets paid by the Toronto Blue Jays? That and more next as the fan morning show continues, Ben and his friend gunning sports at 590 the fan. Unrivaled insight, analysis and opinions on all things Blue Jays, Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's everything he's he's honestly, well, this month, he is 2021 version of himself. For the season outside of the month of April, he's basically been that dude. April, he had an OBS of 678. He only hit three home runs. Is fine. Good. Mm hmm. May 9 17, June 962, July, a thousand one hundred and nineteen. This is the Vince McMahon me come to life. Oh, yeah, knock you over in your chair, his OBS plus, which again, for the uninitiated grades, your OBS, a hundred is league average and it takes into account ballpark factors and and it doesn't take into account your position. But like ballpark factors where you play 155. So 55% above league average, his MVP ish season. Yeah. So where he finished second in 2021, 167 were right there is next best season was one thirty three in 2022. We're like, Oh, that's disappointing. That's so good. Vlad is is 2021 version of himself, essentially, for the last three months. I would like to thank you personally for providing that explainer of what that stat is every time like it's for the audience and not for me, like you're not just really reminding me every single time. So I'd like to thank you for providing that context. You're welcome. By the way, Canada basketball, the men's team underway against Australia, SGA with a couple of early fouls. So he was substituted out of the game in the first quarter, but Canada down to hanging in 13 13. There's like there's a guy named McVeigh with a buzz cut on Australia. It's making me uncomfortable. Do not like just throwing that out there. All right. Have we seen Matthew Delavadova yet? No, I haven't, although I need a pretty close camera shot of his face to like definitively say it'd be like, again, like, oh, scrappy wake guy on Australia, like going to do few with those poking around. Yeah. So Vlad is heading into his final year at team controls. Everybody well knows. I've heard. Okay. It's like the doomsday clock. So one of the new features of the ballpark at Roger Center in the like, you know, pitch clocks here. You see how fast the guy throws it here. Here's our Looney Dog countdown. And then the off season, it just flips to like you days of control left for Vladimir Kharagion. Yes, there's not many. He's very good though. And he's very good. Okay. The argument against his performance and how good he is is that he plays this premium position. But as I pointed out yesterday on Twitter, it's 2024 and nobody hits. So if you get, if you get so much, it doesn't matter if they're a DH or your pitch hitter, if they play no defense at all, if they can hit, you hold onto them with two hands and you never let go. Okay. The average major league baseball first baseman has an OPS of 726. Oh my God. That's the average. God. What happened? What happened to baseball? Bad teams. But like, no, it doesn't matter if you play first base. If you can hit, you're good and you have to be compensated thusly. Vlad is very young as well. He's hitting free agency at an age that is unusual in major league baseball, where so many players spend so many years in the minor leagues, applying their craft, 2000 plate appearances in the minor league, not outlandish. The Blue Jays have talked extension with him. Like that is clear. There's been enough reporting around that there have been like preliminary discussions. There's also been pretty explicit comments from him that he wants to be a Toronto Blue Jay. Now, whether that's just playing the PR game or not, I tend to believe him. I do as well. That it's not going to take some massive overpay to land Vladimir Guerrero Jr. in Toronto for the rest of his career. There's another guy that's also coming up to the end of his era of team control, and he actually has a number on his contract. There's no arbitration for Boboshette, which is actually good for him considering the season he's about to have. And hopefully we see him again at some point during this regular season. So he can perhaps add to some of the promise and some of the reason why this team can compete again in 2025. Can you sign Vlad to an extension? Like the bold thing is it seems impossible to imagine those twofold one that his performance would warrant and allow both sides to come to an agreement on a number that makes sense that he's done, that he looks like the guy he looked like for basically his entire career at the end of the season. It's impossible for me to imagine him with an OBS of 800, even if he comes back for a single month. Yeah. That would be the greatest month in the history of baseball. And I'm sure that Jay's would love to jump in with like, hey, this is your value right now. Of course. Of course. But all that's going to do is guarantee he never sons a contract with the team. So no, there's no, there is just no happy medium that exists between those two sides right now and quite honestly, rightfully so. Yeah. So in like pie in the sky scenario, would it be great if the Blue Jays could figure out long term extensions for both Vlad and Bo sure it's not happening for Bo? I can see a world where it happens for Vlad. Does that make it an untenable situation going into 2025? I mean, there's already going to be tons of speculation around Boba Shadd as a potential trade candidate. And maybe that's like plan a either way for this team. Yep. Does signing Vladimir Guerrero Jr to an extension make like, does that have to happen after the bow trade? If that in fact is the course of action for this Blue Jays team this off season. No, I think there is only one thing you have to work on your timeline off of the Vladi extension that I quite frankly just like believe will come this off season. I just can't see a world where it doesn't make sense for the team. I suppose there's always a world where it doesn't make sense for the player. But I think that security and not security of his finances, but just like what does my life look like for the next 10 years? It seems like Vlad is somebody and you know, you always have to be careful judging people from the outside. But it seems like that is something he would very much like to have sorted out. Like where's my home going to be and I don't be in his physical home, but like his baseball home. Where's that going to be? I think the only thing that affects that timeline is a guy who is almost certainly going to sign with the Yankees. I've said it before. I'll say it again. It's Juan Soto, that is the deal you wait to get signed and then you effectively box Vlad in because as good as this season has been and it has been wonderful. I just pulled up the player comp on baseball reference. The only thing that he shares in terms of a tie in the statistical outlay is the amount of all-star appearances in four and Vlad he has one gold glove to Soto's none, okay? Every hitting statistic, like the career war, 18-7 for Vlad, 35-1 for Soto. You just let Soto go get the biggest bag he can get and then you box Vlad in quite frankly, maybe substantially is too strong of a term, but beneath him in that regard. At least a hundred million dollars. Exactly. When I say substantially, I mean, of course in the total value, but I think you do have to be careful with insulting the player because again, that is somebody who he considers his peer. The Cody Bellinger of the world that like waits, waits, waits and gets, you know, a nice deal but nothing close to what he was asking for or expecting. He doesn't, I would imagine, view him as his peer and what he's done this season should allow him to think that way. I just quite frankly can't see a world where the two sides don't come together on a contract. Obviously, you get in the room, things get contentious, sure and the ARB case was last year. It had to go to ARB. I understand that, but I just from all sides involved, from the PR win, the J's are going to want out of it, from the cost certainty standards that the J's are going to want out of it. And for Vlad, I'd imagine if you did the damn thing and somebody's going to give you your free agency money, you don't want to have to put up or shut up one more year, not to say that he's going to take his foot off the gas, but baseball is a game of failure. It's hard to replicate. All of that, I just, I can't see a world where it quite frankly makes sense for either side not to get something done this off season. Plus he's young enough that even if you, if you need to, are forced to tear it down to some degree that you go through a year or two of non contention, Vlad will still be there on the other side right in the meaty part of his prime. The other thing that we mentioned in passing earlier on that, hey, it's must be easy for Vlad right now to be hitting when the results are inconsequential for this Blue J's team. I mentioned it was just the first month of the season where the results were middling. Blue J's still had hopes of making the playoffs in May, I would think. Yup. It won't be us over 900. And secondarily to that, I have in front of me the clutch stats for Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Lovely. You gonna tell us? No. Okay. If you want to just wait it, I feel like there's like two comments on that sentence, not one. Two outs, runners in scoring position, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. hitting 321 with an OPS of 1,023 and four home runs. Layton Close, he's got an OPS of 959. He's been great all season long. He's been better in clutch situations this season. The other part of this was, you know, last season, the first year of renovated Rogers Center. Basically, his season was as bad as it was because it took until late June for him to hit his first home run at Rogers Center. This year, the splits are remarkable, but in the opposite way at home, OPS of 957 on the road. Very good. 854. That's completely reversed itself. It did prove to be a one year weird anomaly. There is really just there. There's no poking holes like he posts. He plays every day. Guys, missed one game this season. All he does is play almost 162 games every single year there. They're running out of reasons why the Blue Jays shouldn't give him the absolute bag. I want to be clear. I'm in lockstep with that. I agree with that. I think the thing people would point out, and I don't wholly disagree with this. I think sometimes it gets overstated specifically in a sport like baseball, but it's just can clutch exist in what became a lost season. Do you understand what I'm saying? It's like, yeah, but the bat still matters for that one game, but is the pressure not off to the start? The pressure is off now, but it wasn't off in my opinion. It wasn't off in May because I think the other thing that this player, Vlad, he suffers from is the lack of moments, right? And part of that is a team issue. There haven't been the times necessarily where you've needed them, but the biggest moment that we think back to was the time I most saw your eyes pop clean out of your head was when he got picked off at second, like that's the biggest moment. It's that or what? Like the Homer, the Homer in Montreal that doesn't count. That is why I think we have this discussion at all about clutch. I mean, the playoffs that's exist, but I'm not, I'm not making guys bones off of what? 25, 30, maybe 40 played appearances or something. I'm not, I'm not going nuts with that, but I think that's the reason why we keep having these conversations about clutch is that he hasn't had the, you know, the massive moment in a game they absolutely needed and, or maybe it's also true that he has had them. But then those moments didn't seem as memorable or impactful later on because the season ended the way they always have for this kind of era team. That's why I think we keep running into this conversation. He hasn't had a playoff moment, he's played in six playoff games, he has 25 playoff played appearances. He's three for, for 22 in those played appearances with a couple of walks. Better than Mike Trao. Uh, Mike Trao has a home run. Yeah, he does. One for 15. With a home run. Oh, yeah. I mean, you can do without what you will. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he doesn't have a moment because this Blue Jays team doesn't have a moment. No, but you could, you could certainly argue that it's like a, he, he had a knock and it's not plenty of regular season moments. I mean, he had a what, like the four hit game, two homers off Garrett Cole at Yankee Stadium where Garrett Cola, the tip has had to him. That's nice. I mean, we have a, like he's, okay, I guess he could have hit a bunch of home runs in the six games and he's, he's doesn't have a big hit in the playoff games that he's played. That's true. It's six games. I mean, we had this conversation about Barry Bonds early on total in his playoff career until he was like, Oh yeah, I'm Barry Bonds and given enough of a track record, I'm going to be Barry Bonds, no matter if it's a regular season or the playoffs. I tend to agree that that is, and I don't tend to agree. That is my opinion on the matter, but I also cannot hold it against people who say, I'd like to see a moment before we give someone, you know, hundreds of millions. It's not going to happen. I agree. I agree. So make your decision and my decision is given the money. Yeah. I agree. Last thing on this for the moment, we'll revisit this probably with our two baseball guests coming up in the next hour. I think you might come up with them. Yeah. What? You don't even know what I'm going to say. I was going to say, I think Vlad might come up with that. Oh yeah. No, I was going to. No, the next three agreeing with you has always been. Yeah. So the Blue Jays got three major league caliber, well, two major leaguers and a third guy that's at the upper levels of the minor leagues and producing for a rental pitcher and you say kukuchi who has an ERA over six since the end of May. Does that make you feel any way about the potential of trading guys with actual team control? That could return even more value. I assume. It's Kevin Gossman for sure because he only he's he has the higher ceiling than then Chris Bassett plus is under contract for one year more, but Chris Bassett as well, like does it should the Blue Jays be looking long and hard at trading those dudes because of the prices that are going for starting pitchering? I don't see. I don't see how you can't. I think you nailed it with the Bassett. I don't think a team is going to get out over their skis for him because he feels much more like a guy to get you there than get you through. That's probably a little unfair to him, but I think that would be the sentiment across baseball as well and Gossman has just had the very odd season where the super high ceiling still exists, but the but the floor has lowered a little bit, but he's also had the two kind of complete games as well. So yeah, I think Gossman is somebody I would certainly be interested on on doing that. You don't give either of these guys away, but if you're going to get what they got for kukuchi plus plus, then you have to you have to at least consider it. I imagine, you know, when teams are calling about kukuchi, I imagine part of the conversation goes, mmm, what if we wanted someone with more term? So yeah, I could easily see that happening or at least those discussions. We shall see the Blue Jays have until six o'clock tonight to consummate more deals before the Major League Baseball trade deadline. Time now for the Wakenrake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown Sportsbook 19 plus bet responsibly Blue Jays Orioles continuing their series tonight in Baltimore Corbin Burns against Chris Bassett, we think, be interesting if he doesn't make that start. But the Blue Jays are underdogs, as you would imagine, against the Orioles Ace. They are plus 170, the Orioles minus 208, the total eight and a half. I'm going to go under on the total there, Burns is, Burns is nasty, Bassett, if he's in that game, certainly has a chance to be effective. I know the O's can certainly rack them up and I know the Jays, I don't know, everyone's in a while wander into a few, but yeah, I'm going to take the under minus 110 there. I like the over. Okay. Chris Bassett has really struggled against lefty hitters. And I know Gunnar Henderson is off to, or he's going through a bit of a slump right now. I think there's a good time for him to break out. I like over eight and a half in this baseball game and that was the Wakenrake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown Sportsbook 19 plus bet responsibly. When we come back, talk to the host of Blair and Barker, Jeff Blair. As the fan morning show continues, Ben and Sprank gunning, Sports said 590, the fan.
