A persecution watchdog is warning about the dire state of persecution in Pakistan, calling it "one of the most difficult countries to be a Christian." David Curry, CEO of Global Christian Relief, told CBN News Pakistan's blasphemy laws — regulations restricting slights against religion — can lead to mob violence and evils perpetuated against Christians.
"They have very strong blasphemy laws, which I describe as vigilante laws that give any extremist the ability to make an accusation against a Christian that they have offended in some way Mohammed," Curry said. "And then rile up a mob to attack them, and [in] many cases kill them." He said some rely on these blasphemy laws to imprison and dole out the death sentence to Christians, often relying on fraudulent claims to make their case.
"In all these years I've been doing this, I don't remember a case that seemed at all legitimate," Curry said. "It's just very common that there are false charges brought." Despite the chaos, Curry hopes Pakistan eventually curbs the misuse of these laws and the targeting of the Christian religious minority within its borders.
"I still have a sliver of hope that it has the possibility, as a democracy, as a country that ... has some systems that still work, of being a real light in that region," Curry said, expressing a semblance of hope. "But, for now, what we have is a group that has been moving towards ... the rule of Islamic extremism."
Curry shared the story surrounding a group of people who were placed on death row for purportedly sending "texts claiming that Muhammad wasn't God." He said one of the most remarkable facets of the case was that these messages were purportedly sent in English while the accused were "illiterate." "They didn't even have a cell phone," Curry said. "So, everything about the accusation was clearly and patently false."
To the newsmakers podcast, I'm Billie Hollowell, and this is a show where we go behind the headlines every day to bring you an interview with a pastor, entertainer, politician, or other notable news figure. And this is a show, again, it's daily, but it's based on our weekly TV show, which is also called Newsmakers. You can watch it on the CBN News channel and also on our YouTube page. And on this show, every day, we dive deep. It's a little more longer form with one of the people who you will often see on our Newsmakers show or across the CBN News platforms. On today's newsmakers, David Curry, the CEO of Global Christian Relief, joins us to talk about Pakistan's blasphemy laws and persecution in that country. Really horrific situation there for believers. He dives into what that looks like and what Christians can do to help ease the pain of their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. We know further ado, here is David Curry. I appreciate you joining me as always to break down the state of Christian persecution. Let's talk a little bit about Pakistan. Pakistan has been in the headlines of late from a 30,000 foot view. What is the state of persecution against Christians there in Pakistan? Well, I would say that Pakistan is one of the most difficult countries to be a Christian, certainly because of the mob violence, because of the blasphemy laws. At the same time, I still have a sliver of hope that it has the possibility as a democracy, as a country that knows, it has some systems that still work, of being a real light in that region. But for now, what we have is a group that has been moving towards closer and closer anyway, towards the rule of Islamic extremism. They have very strong blasphemy laws, which I describe as vigilante laws that give any extremists the ability to make an accusation against a Christian that they have offended in some way, Mohammed, and then rile up a mob to attack them. And many cases kill them. In some cases, they use blasphemy laws to imprison or give a death sentence to a Christian. And as near as I can tell, in all these years I've been doing this, I don't remember a case that seemed at all legitimate. So I mean, it's just very common that there are false charges brought. Yeah, there was recently a case where a man stepped out of a vehicle and was purportedly standing on pages of the Quran, didn't realize it. This is all, of course, this is the claim. And because he was standing on those pages, he was arrested and held on these blasphemy laws. So you hear all the time stories of somebody being accused. I mean, you think about how terrifying it would be to live in a situation, and this is reality for people in Pakistan, I imagine, where you upset your neighbor, you have a minor dispute over something that has nothing to do with religion, and suddenly somebody is accusing you of insulting Mohammed. And as you were saying, the penalty, I mean, the penalties can range from prison to death, correct? That's right. Let me give you just a couple more, because I understand why listeners, viewers would think, hey, it's so easy to say, well, the charges are false. Here's one case. Senator Cruz helped work with us to get these folks released from death row. They were accused of blasphemy by sending texts, claiming that Mohammed wasn't God, whatever. They did so in English, but they were illiterate. So there's no way they didn't even have a cell phone. So everything about the accusation was clearly and patently false. Another case, it's just weeks ago, Nasir Mashih, he owned a shoe factory, had some way that his neighbors, they knew he was a Christian, but in some way they were just tired of him being around, and they accused him of having a burnt Bible outside of his shoe factory. We have the video of this on our website, GlobalChristianRelief.org. The mob attacked him, beat him when the ambulance showed up. They pulled him out and beat him some more, and he died in hospital just a day or two later. I mean, I can go on down the line over and over again, false charges using this vigilante blasphemy law. You talked about having some hope. There were recently some resolutions surrounding mob lynching and protection of minorities. Can you talk a little bit about those resolutions and if they give you additional hope, if there's a reason to still be concerned? Well, I think, you know, first of all, there are church structures, Christian structures, which have been grandfathered in, so you do have the presence of some church schools, some denominations which are allowed to function Pakistan, but they're under great pressure. I've talked to many of these leaders. We've looked at how we can help support Christian schools peacefully existing within these Islamic communities. Only, you know, less somewhere, less than 2% of the people in Pakistan are registered as a Christian. So it's a small population relative to what's going on. So, and they have, you know, they have a court system, they have an election system. So that's what I mean. I think if the people woke up to say, like, we're not going to empower extremism, but the reality is the blasphemy laws are protected by the courts for fear of mob violence, if what will happen on a Friday afternoon, if a Islamic leader gets up and says we're going to attack because they're going to take away these blasphemy laws and they're going to, we want to impose even stricter Sharia laws. Remember, it's right across the border from where the Taliban is ruling, and that's where some, a portion, small portion, perhaps, but a powerful portion of Islamic leaders in Pakistan, that's how they would like to rule Pakistan if they could. You know, when you look at how your organization, Global Christian Relief, is helping and being involved, you spoke a little bit about it there for a moment, but talk about how you're helping and how normal citizens in America and across the world can get involved to help try and stop some of these blasphemy laws and some of the chaos we see targeting Christians there. When we talk about advocacy, I think the power of our collective voice is important, so sharing stories like the ones we have posted about Nasser Mashi, this blasphemy case that I just mentioned, share these stories. That's the power of our collective voice, to put pressure on Pakistan, which, by the way, wants to be part of the business community. They want to be part of the international business world and get that resource, get that money, get American aid. So in order to do so, it's entirely appropriate that we say not that you have American values, but simply go back to international law, which is all we're talking about, the things that everybody has already agreed to. And I think that we can raise our voice to pressure our politicians to hold them accountable for that if they want to be part of our military aid and so forth. The other thing we do is, what I would say, knit together a network of people who, whether they be from academia or art, agriculture, political sphere, business sphere, within countries where it's most difficult for Christians to be supplied with Bibles, get clear teaching, meet together safely as a congregation. Now that comes as a shock to, if you're in Indiana, you can go to any church you want within 20 miles, it just all kind of depends on how far you want to go and who you want to listen to, that doesn't seem normal. But in the most opposed regions of the world, it is dangerous and/or illegal to attend church, to read a Bible, to have a Bible, to be thought to be a Christian means you could lose your head. So what we do is try to knit together. How can we as citizens, as believers help each other to be the salt and light? Yeah, and you look at these situations around the world, I mean, we know that persecution is worsening, it has been, it's dire in so many countries, not just Pakistan, around the globe. What keeps you going in your work? Because I would imagine it is tough as you're working hard and you're helping people and you're trying to push back on these forces. At the same time watching these forces continue to metastasize and grow just as evil does, how do you balance that? Is that ever difficult for you in the work you do? One of our core values is to be happy warriors and what we mean by that, this idea that goes back all the way to Scripture, that you're going to just be at peace, be at joy. Know that what we are to do is to be faithful. We don't control everything, you can't get caught up in that. But the other thing I would say is when you see the joy of the persecuted church, this is to me the valuable lesson that we need in the West. They're under pressure, they're under constraints, but yet they're bold and they're happy and they're present. I was in Nigeria not too long ago, and by the way, I'm headed to Pakistan in just about eight to nine weeks, and they're under enormous pressure. Some of these people have had physical injuries and lost loved ones due to attacks as Islamic extremists. It's joyful and it just gives me joy because the Lord is sufficient, God is sufficient of relationship with Jesus. I don't want to go through those things, but I've seen it take them deeper in their faith and it's encouraging. It's worth noting, sometimes it breaks people either psychologically, mentally. They go through such traumas, see such immense things that they're broken. So it's just not a Pollyanna story for sure, but the see the depth of joy and strength is encouraging and inspiring. Well, it's helpful to understand too, for us, what is going on. In America, we have our debates and our battles over religious liberty and religious freedom, but we don't have to worry that we're going to be killed if we offend somebody, that we're going to be harmed. Our job will be taken, our home will be raised if we say something that people don't like. And yet here we have a country in Pakistan where these things are very real and a lot of places around the world where it's very real. And yet that shows you the true faith and true hope that these people have that they're able to, despite what they face, continue believing. That's the first thing and being unwilling to give up their faith. Just final question for you, what does it do for your faith when you see these people persist when they've lost everything simply because they are believers? Well, I think I've gotten bolder because of it. More certain that there is no material good, there's no political government, there's no kind of thing that you might want in the world that's going to be sufficient to the peace, spiritual peace, knowing the power, the Holy Spirit, to give somebody peace in the midst of trauma and so I think it's made me bolder, more active certainly in my faith. And I hope I'm maturing as I go through this, I think it's important. But the other thing is, as you mentioned, we see shadows of persecution, censorship, intolerance towards faith. There are battleground areas that we're seeing across Western Europe, in the US, around how you educate your kids, do you have the ability to educate your own children in your faith, censorship, the laws around freedom of gathering. These are all coming to us, we're next is so to speak, but we can learn the lessons from the persecuted church or how they've kept strong. Yeah, and to your point, I mean, even in Finland, Pavirazan, and you go down the line, she's the politician who's been fighting a battle over, sharing Bible verses, and it's insane that we're watching some of these things happen and I think what you said is important. And I think it's a reminder too of continuing to fight for the First Amendment that we have here in this country to ensure that we maintain those freedoms that we have because you look at these other countries and you think this is the end result of not having those protections and those freedoms, and that is a terrifying thing. And so I appreciate you taking the time, as always, breaking it all down. We wish you good luck on your upcoming travels. Thank you, Billy. Appreciate it. That's all for today's Newsmakers podcast. Be sure to tune in for the next episode of the show and also head over to the CBN News YouTube channel and the CBN News channel to watch Newsmakers every week. We'll see you soon. [MUSIC] [BLANK_AUDIO]
