Welcome to Big Blend Radios Toast to the Art Show, where we celebrate books, music, visual, and the performing arts. Welcome, everyone, to Big Blend Radios Toast to the Art Show. Today, we're excited to welcome drummer Martin Fitzgibbon onto the show. He's joining us to talk about his memoir that is out now. You can get it on Amazon and all those great places. It is called Behind the Curtain, My Life and Rocky Horror. That's right. This is for all you Rocky Horror fans, music fans, you know, because, you know, being a traveling musician too is always fun and interesting. It keeps life interesting. But welcome to the show, Martin. How are you? Hi, Lisa. I'm good. Thank you. And it's a pleasure to be on the show. So thank you for having me. Yeah, it's good to have you here. And I think the Rocky Horror Picture Show is something that is near and dear to many people's hearts. And definitely it became quite the cult classic, didn't it? It sure did and it sure travelled around, which is really quite strange for me because, you know, I go back, I think back to where we started and maybe not everybody knows. But we started in a little 63 seat room above the Royal Court Theatre in Sloan Square in London. And it seems to have travelled to kind of far and wide from those kind of humble beginnings. It's interesting because, you know, in the beginning of your book, you talk about a friend who said, Hey, you want to come do this because you're a silent drummer, which is, I think that's that's so funny. I know it's even in the right up on the book. But and that he thought this was going to be huge. And you know how that is. That is that lingo. It's going to be massive, man. It's going to be this. But it and now you're going, Oh, you know, it's just like a small room. And then all of a sudden it's a giant around the world, right? Yeah. But the weird thing is that because the guy you're talking about is a guy called Richard Hartley, who was he's the musical director. And I knew Richard pretty well and we've worked together over three, four years and we've done a lot of recording together. And I trusted him. So when he said to me, this thing's going to be huge. I was interested anyway, because I hadn't done a musical and I was looking forward to that. But when he said this thing is going to be huge, it kind of compensated for the lack of money as well. Because it was £20 a week. I don't know how that translates into dollars. We got we got £20 a week. And the guys in the cast got £18 a week, which wasn't a lot of money even back in 1973 when we first started. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Well, don't ask about £20 now being $20. I think it's about the same. I think I don't let's not talk about economics. OK. World isn't happy. The other world is not happy about economics right now. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, it's amazing, though, you know, in, you know, Nancy, my mom had a magazine in South Africa that I kind of grew into, you know, as a kid. And when we lived in England before, we went to South Africa. But the Rocky Horror Picture Show was banned in South Africa. And right before we left and it was getting it was tenuous. It was time to go as American citizens and and to keep our passport and everything. It was just one of those things that, you know, and and she had one of the last independent magazines running at that time of what was going on in the country. But right during all of this, the Rocky Horror Picture Show is now legal. And we saw people, we went to the show and we were covering it in her magazine. We went every single night of that. And I really wanted, you know, it's like we knew this the and we that was like the cover story of the last issue of her magazine was the Rocky Horror Picture Show. We had Frank and Fred are on the cover is all it was amazing. The theater production of it was absolutely fantastic. The vocals and it really got me that in here got me into wanting to do musical theater and then wanting to do that. And, you know, we were going to even open a second office over the magazine in Cape Town so we could do this. But these, the folks that came, they came from the Sydney Opera House. They were like the Sydney theater company that came out to do it. So I mean, this was just amazing and I was going to be an understudy and I was working with them on all kinds of things and writing and photographing all of it. Then we had to come back to the States and you know what, someone took me and it was like when my first year back in this country and I was really young and I like, Oh, the Rocky Horror Show. I'm like, really? And I go and it's, it's, it's not the same. It's a movie and and they're throwing things in the movie, but it's not the theater. They go, no, but it's in a theater. I'm like, that's not a theater performance. Yeah, but we're all enacting stuff. I'm like, that's not the, that's, do you know what I'm talking about? This difference? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's no live band. There's no live band. That sucks. You know. Yeah. Yeah. I get out and totally. Do I take it in South Africa that at that time nobody in the audience kind of dressed up as their favorite characters? All right. They did. That's what our minds because there were like our bankers, the bed, the head of the bank was there. Like, I mean, people that we thought were really kind of the hoity-toity's came out dressed up. And I was like, Oh my gosh, are you sure we have to leave now that everyone's cool? You know, but they banned the exorcist too, if that makes you feel good. As soon as we got back to this country, I was finally allowed to see the exorcist movie. Good. Yeah. So that, you know, everybody needs that further all around. But yeah, they did dress up. People dressed up every single night. And people like me, I went because we were doing a story on it, but I went every night because I was kind of addicted to it. And you saw people keep returning to the same show. So does that something you saw as well with in doing this? Well, it was kind of difficult at first because, as you can imagine, selling 63 seats wasn't difficult. And there were, because of the newspaper critics and word of mouth, after first night, we could have sold those seats. I don't know how many times over. So, you know, it was really, really tough trying to get a ticket. So people coming back was a bit unusual. When we got to the next venue, I played in three different venues with Rocky. We moved up to about, I think we went from 63 up to about two, seven, five-seater, something like that. And then up to a 500 and something, I think, was the next one. So by then, yeah, people were able to come back and you'd recognize some of the faces as regulars. And a lot of, just about, it seemed just about everybody who was either visiting actor or celebrity from the States and also from the UK, just about everybody came through at some point or other. That's how it felt, anyway. The music part, really, I mean, the story's funny. And just the whole thing is just, you know, it was one of those like, what? You know, it kind of woke people up from the humdrum of commercial entertainment, right? And then here comes the Rocky Art Picture Show that's just going to blow your mind a little. And the music, though, to me, is just, the music is fantastic. That's why I always thought the music was everything with the story. How did you feel about that? I mean, obviously, being the drummer in that. But the music is, I mean, even if you never saw it, the music will just carry you. Yeah, I loved it. It was strange because the first time the band got together, we had two consecutive days rehearsing just the band. And the cast was somewhere else. They were rehearsing the vocals and stuff. But yeah, day one, we went into this little rehearsal studio in London. It was in the basement of a Victorian house. And I guess you know how this works, but you're given a sheet of music and there are no lyrics attached to it. And there is no melody line attached to it because you don't need to know that at that point. You know, that's for the guys to learn. But what was interesting was you'd be given a piece of music and you have to have the title written across the top. So you'd be given something that said Sweet Transvestine or Time Walk or, you know, over at the Frankenstein place. So those were quite mind-blowing kind of things. And the following day, the second day of rehearsal, we got to the end of that second day. And Richard Hartley, who was the keyboard player and the musical director and just white wave information. There were four guys in the band. It was myself playing drums. Richard Hartley played keyboards. We had a bass player who doubled saxophone and a guy called Dave Channing, who he'd read an advert in a musical newspaper. I think he was a melody maker. And then we had a great character playing guitar, a guy called Ian Blair, who always respected himself as the count. So he was count Ian Blair. I don't think in reality, I think it was self-imposed and self-conferred. But count was great. Fantastic counts, a very rock and roll. Kind of like Keith Richards. If you can imagine Keith Richards, that was kind of where Count was at. So day two, we get together with the cast for the first time. So for the first time then, you get to hear the melody line and you get to hear the lyrics. So I can remember Tim Curry for the first time coming up with Sweet Transvestite. You kind of immediately go, "Yeah, okay." This guy has got it. Great charisma, great stage presence and a fantastic voice. So yeah, the songs were knock out. We had a lot of fun playing the songs. The whole show was a lot of fun. That was a really cool thing. Yeah, as a drummer. And just to have the real band in the theater. Did you kind of like eyebrows go up during rehearsals when now you're starting to hear the lyrics? And Tim Curry is just epic. He's phenomenal, right? And in everything he does, I just think he's brilliant. But I mean, when you first see them strut out and start singing this, and I mean, did you kind of go, "What the hell did I get myself into?" What were you like? Are you excited about it? I mean, yeah. I think it was very cool about it. Because yeah, it was just fantastic. And I don't know why, but it didn't feel strange in any sense. Even though in some respects in 1973, it was kind of different. It was, I won't say odd, but it was just different. The thing about, yeah, absolutely. Tim, during rehearsals, those first rehearsals, he wore lady's shoes when he was playing that role, because that was his way of getting himself into character. You know, he kind of said once he was playing a soldier, and once he got the soldiers boots on, he was able to engage in that part. And that was kind of what he was doing with playing Frank. But he was phenomenal. And you know, you kind of knew straight away, not just Tim. Because everybody in the cast was great. I mean, it was just another sheer piece of good fortune that all the cast were really good in their roles. They could all have ended up being in the film. They didn't all end up. That's for slightly different reasons, but they could quite easily have done that. The other thing I hope is interesting is that at the theatre upstairs, the band were hidden. We were, that's why the book is called Behind the Curtain, because the band were hidden behind the stage, behind a curtain, so that we were facing the audience. And they didn't know we were there until, well, until we started playing, they did. But as they were coming in, we had to sit there quietly and just wait until the show kicked off. But it was great because what it meant was that you got to see everybody's reactions to everything. So the first time Tim comes down the ramp, first night, he throws the cloak off and he's got all the gear and underneath, and he starts belting. It's just a sweet, transvestite. And you get to see everybody's faces. It was a magic moment. Every night like that was a magic moment. It was brilliant. Did you tour with this? I mean, did you go beyond that theatre, you know, and continue playing? And did you get, and did you do any of the recording for the actual film? I went to, well, I played three different venues. So we moved down the road from a little 63 seat venue, which was a fantastic place. I loved it there. It's my favorite venue of the three that I played just because the atmosphere was amazing, you know. And even now, I love playing smaller venues because you can make a connection. You really connect with the audience. And, you know, that's supposedly what music and what theatre is about. It's about connecting with people. So we did the original cast album, which was recorded in London. We did it over a weekend. Day one, the band went in and we did our thing. And it's the quickest album I've ever made. I was in and out of the studio within three hours. That included having a couple of breaks for coffee and stuff. And then the cast went in the following day and they did their vocals and they did those in pretty much in record time as well. So it was a cheap album to make. But as subsequently it's, I think it's made, Jonathan King, the producer, I think it's made him a huge amount of money. But yeah, there you go. So then I went to the old classic cinema, which was a little bit further down the Kings Road. And that's where we moved up a gear, seatwise. That was great. And then the third venue, because that place had to be pulled down. We were only there for three months. We knew it was going to be pulled down. But Michael White, who was our esteemed impresario, he needed a venue quickly. Because it was the hottest ticket in town, Rocky Aura. And we needed somewhere quick to shoehorn us in and get us out there. And everybody was under contract by that point. But keeping people under contract while you search for theater is an expensive business. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah. So there we go. Yeah. Yeah. So now for you, though, let's dig into you as a drummer. So you started playing drums like when you were really young, what do you think influenced you into? Do you have a musical family? Was it albums? What was it? Was the Beatles? What got you going? Well, it was a combination of all those things. But I started playing when I was about eight, which is world pre-veitals. And the reason my dad was an amateur dance band drummer. And it meant that at home, we had in the cupboard under the stairs, we had an old snare drum and a pair of sticks and a pair of brushes. And I'd get the drum out occasionally and bash about when I was a kid and probably annoy the whole neighborhood, I would think. I certainly wouldn't have called me a quiet drummer back then in those days, I don't think. And then when I got a bit more serious, I said to my dad, look, you know, I'd like to take this a bit further. And he said, I can't teach him because I don't really have a technical ability. But he had a brother-in-law who was also a dance band drummer who did teach me. And he taught me really well, he gave me some good grounding, including how to read music, which, you know, you don't know that at the time. But later on, that proved to be important. Yeah, reading doesn't reading music. Like when you're talking about you're getting the sheet music without the lyrics, without knowing and not even the melody, but you're doing the drums, right? I mean, yeah, that's, I don't even think I've seen drum music before now that I think of it. Well, no, and I'm a music, you know, I play songwriting and all that stuff and sing and all of that. But now that I think of it, I don't think I've ever seen drummers music. Because I don't even think after drummers, I've played with even read music. They probably don't, but maybe they don't need to, which is fair enough. I mean, I'll send you a photo. I've got, I've still got some Rocky Horror, the original sheet music parts that I was given. I kept them. So cool. Because I had to read that now. Yeah, because I don't know, I don't know about you, but I rarely keep anything. I don't keep a diary, should have done, should have taken more photographs and didn't. But yeah, I mean, were you kicking yourself in writing this? I mean, that's a thing. I mean, I mean, with as travelers, we've got to this point of like, yes, you will see me in the same t-shirt for the next 10 days. You know what I mean? You do kind of get to this point and then you wish you had kept it. There's just portions of life. You're like, why didn't I keep that photo or something like that? You know, now, digitally, it's a lot easier. But, but yeah, writing this memoir had to be quite a task of remembering everything. Yeah, it was okay. Yeah, I think once I got started, it was okay. And, and things got triggered in the memory. So, so that was cool. I mean, it would have been helpful, for sure, because it would have been if I'd if I'd have had a diary, but I didn't. So, and like you say, photographs, well, everybody takes photographs nowadays. Very rarely did we do it back then, which was just for a memento. And because that's, that's where the majority of interest is in a way from rocky horror fans around the world is because the the first production in the first venue is still quite mysterious because not, you know, not many people saw it. Although my dad got to see it and my girlfriend. So, they're kind of curious about that. And because there are very few photos, one of which is on the cover of the book and hasn't been published before. So, that was one of the reasons for me including it. So, yeah, you've got to look at that photograph really carefully. Because if you look, you can see just about, if you look carefully, you'll, you'll see my drum kit behind the, behind the screen. Oh, sweet. Behind, behind the curtain. That, that's the thing about plays, right? It's like temporary art. Because it's like once the show's over and the next night is always different. Some, because it, you know, that as a musician, are you going to play the same song every night, 100%, the same as the night before? It's, it's virtually impossible, I think. Because, I mean, you can do it right, but there's going to be some kind of variation somewhere, right? I don't know. I, I don't think, I don't know any musician. I mean, you're, you're the drummer, but, you know, it doesn't change somewhat, somewhere, even though you're playing the right notes or whatever, it's going to change you somewhat, you know, and, and it'll play. People will go back just to see if someone screwed up even, you know what I mean? And how are they going to get themselves out of that on a live performance? There's just nothing about live. It's the best. Live performance, live albums are the best, you know? Yeah. And it can, it would have been cool if they filmed it the, the whole thing live. You know what I mean? Yeah. The music and that would have been interesting. Yeah, it would have been fascinating. There are people, I guess, still get emails from guys asking me if there is a recording of that, of anything at the theatre upstairs. And no, there isn't, we've kind of done as much research as we can. But if it, if it had been, it would have been like a bootleg job. And nobody, nobody seemingly, anyway, as far as we know, nobody did that. The difference, I think, the only thing that's slightly different when, when, when we were doing the theatre, we had a, we had a lot of people, we had actors who could sing a bit, rather than singers who could act in the main. Tim, Tim can do both, and Richard and Brian can do both, and a lot of the guys did. But some of them, the guys who are a little less certain about singing, they wanted their song to be pretty much the same every single night. Because if you varied it at all, it kind of threw them off a little bit. So, and I suppose that's the beauty when you are playing to music, is you, you play the dots, you play what's written. For their sake, not for your sake, because you're there to do a job. And if that's what, you know, if that's what somebody asks you to do. Then that's what you do, playing, playing live, where you're not stuck to a piece of music, or you're not accompanying somebody else that's, that's going to throw them in some way. It's a different thing, I think. And that's, yeah, that's where you can go off at a tangent, a little bit. And why not? That's a lot of fun. Why would you not do that? Yeah, yeah. So did you write the memoir during COVID? Yeah. I just got to ask everybody, I mean, COVID was like the best creative like thing, other than people died, that sucks. And you know, a lot of creative people died, and we had a lot of loss. But so that was a sad part of it. And it, you know, COVID really did suck. But I mean, our lives after COVID, I mean, we've had the best, you know, music and books. I mean, things are good on the creative side during that. And some musicians I know were busier than ever, especially those who do session work. They were, they were just recording every day, it seems. So it's just depended, like for you as a drummer, that had to have sucked, like not being able to perform. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I kind of tuck myself up and I play very badly. I play a bit of acoustic guitar and I write some songs and stuff like that. So I did that. And writing the memoir was, it was really interesting. I hadn't written something since I was at school, I think. But, and it's different to writing lyrics, I think, writing lyrics, as you know, because you're a songwriter. Sometimes in two lines, you have to create the whole story. Whereas in a memoir, in a book, you can maybe dedicate a paragraph to fleshing it out, or maybe even a whole page, if you want to, or a whole chapter, if you want to flush the whole thing out. So it was different to writing song lyrics. I really enjoyed it. It was good fun. It was creative, which is obvious, and that's a good thing. It keeps the brain matter ticking over a bit, which in my case is faster pre-ting, even as we speak. That, hey, I'm blonde. It's a real thing for me. But, you know, that's a thing. Being once right, and then do a memoir too, and then piece everything together. Did you have to make a lot of calls and reconnect with people, and kind of go, hey, am I remembering this straight, or kind of do that kind of thing? And during COVID, who doesn't want to reconnect with friends too, you know? Yeah, I know. But to be honest, I didn't, because I didn't want to be contaminated by somebody else's memory. Because everybody, you could just sit and argue all day, actually, because everyone remembers things different. Absolutely. And I didn't want that. So what I wanted to do was tell my truth and not somebody else's truth. And strangely, afterwards, I went back. After I'd finished writing, I went to look at a couple of other books that have been written. There's a mate of mine who was in the original show. He wrote a book, Raina Baughton. He wrote a book about, I don't know, probably 20 years ago. And after I'd finished mine, I went back to see what he said in his, because I couldn't remember. I'd read it at the time, obviously, but I couldn't remember what he put. And it was strange how some of the things that he put down, and I know he didn't keep a diary, because I asked him at the time, were different to mine. But, you know, and I knew mine were right, and I knew his were wrong. So he may think the same thing, but that's, that's, it's my truth. That's a really good thing. You know, because, that's a really, you know, because people actually, families argue over stuff. No, it was just, no, it was that way. And, you know, maybe just get over it. Because if it's, that's what you remember, and that's how you have it in, in your brain, in your art and soul, that's that, that is your truth, whether it's right or wrong. It really doesn't matter at the end of the day. You're not saving someone's life with it, you know what I mean? I think it's, it's, you're, you're giving people an inside vibe in, in the atmosphere, and, you know, just, it's entertaining, right? And the Rockyard picture show, I mean, come on, we need something like that now. Well, you know, I think that everything's gotten so, like, I don't know, it's so, everything has to be perfect and dazzling. And I mean, so now when we say dazzling, there was a lot of dazzles in the Rockyard picture show. But you know what I mean? I feel like we, yeah, I want something like that now that is mind-blowing, and it doesn't need explosions for it. Yeah, it was, it was just over, we don't need over-produced stuff, you know. No, no, no. I mean, it was a parody. It was a parody of a lot of Richard O'Brien's kind of childhood things, like, like, bad bemovies. Oh, and they're great. Come on. Exactly. That's why, what made it so good, you know. Exactly. Yep. That, that kind of thing is just, we need to have more of that. That's kind of what I'm thinking, you know. Yeah. And I think, originally, at the very beginning, people kind of got it even more. And then, because some things pass, you know, I guess there are things that happen to people who go to see the show today, wouldn't know who some of the characters, and as they, they want to go and look up and see who Fay Ray was. And, exactly. And stuff like that. So, if you want to go and research it, you can, but back in the very early days, and remember, we're talking 50, it's now 51 years. Wow. And that we first premiered this thing. You know, a lot of things have happened in between, and a lot of people have sadly passed away, including a couple of members of the cast, and a lot of friends of mine. And so, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm still above ground, and I'm doing okay. Oh, well, we're glad you're here above ground, as you say. So, what are you doing musically now? Well, I've just, I'm halfway through, halfway through mixing an album for a musical project that I've been involved in for about the last 10 years, which is a band called, called The Gigantics, and it's an album of ours that, that I've been doing. And because I very foolishly, for a man of my age, I went running and fell over on some mud and busted my shoulder. So, Oh, kind of put us. That's not cool. No, it's not. It's put, stopped to drumming for a while. I had to cancel a lot of stuff, but in the meantime, I've been mixing down this album, and I've been writing and recording a solo album. So, maybe by the end of this year, that might be done, just depends how much, how much I can get, get actually, how much work I can actually get done. Very cool. Very cool. Well, you've got to come back. Keep us posted on the music. Yeah, thank you. It's a deal. Yeah. Well, congratulations on the memoir. I mean, that's work. I know it was a COVID project, but still, it's still work. Have any of the cast or the musicians that are still with us, have they read it and had any comments? Yeah, they've been really kind and really supportive, which doesn't surprise me because they're a good bunch of guys and gals. Yeah, that's cool. And they were at the time. There was a great company feel amongst everybody. Again, you kind of have to imagine that nobody's heard of Tim Curry or Richard O'Brien or anybody else. These are completely unknown people. And in this tiny space, you're collectively, you are creating something. And then what's really weird is that it goes outside of that room and it goes out onto a worldwide stage. And you know, the reason that you and I are talking here is because of that. What happened in that room with those people? It's phenomenal. I get emails from people around the world, saying, I was in the Sydney shadow cast in 1983 or whatever it was. What's going on with Sydney? What's going on? Is Sydney like Australia like a big deal? Is it for the Rocky Horror? Yeah. It was. And there were some antipodeon connections there. The Jim Sharman, the director was from Australia and now Campbell, who played Columbia, she was from there and so on. So there were some connections there. I don't know. It's a pretty cool thing, really. Pretty cool. I just think it's great that people dressed up because I think we should have that kind of fun again. Well, that's the other thing. People say to me that we all got dressed up as our favourite characters and we went in the case of London. We went on the underground or the subway in the States, which was all dressed up and just having fun and people know where we were going and they were all pointing and laughing and stuff. But the show always was about fun. It was a good fun to do. It was fun to be there. It's fun to be with those guys and there's nothing wrong with having a bit of fun. We can all take some of that. I think even the movie Susan sounded and that was one of her first roles even. I think that it was one of the first, you know, and it propelled careers. Like Tim Curry, like you're saying, I wonder if Tim Curry ever met Tim Rice. I'm just saying. Sorry, this is really bad. Yeah, I know it's really bad. It's just terrible, but they could have, right? It's quite likely. Well, yeah, it's possible. Come on. Well, you did one dead beauty in the beast. He had the rock in your fingers and shell. It's funny. Well, Tim was in, Tim was in, he wasn't in Jesus Christ Superstar, but yeah, he was in hair for a bit. He was in the hair? Oh, wow. Yeah, the children version. But the thing, I mean, the other thing that not many people know is that Richard O'Brien was in Jesus Christ Superstar. And the only reason he wrote the book was because he was promoted from the chorus up into play the role of Herod. And Richard, in typical Richard fashion, he thought he'd play Herod in the guise of Elvis because he loved Elvis. And that, to me, sounds fantastic. But somebody disagreed with that. And he got fired after one performance. So he thought, well, you know, what the hell am I going to do now? So I know I'll go home and write the Rocky Horror Show. And it'll run for the next 50 odd years. It's amazing. And it's still going, you know, and I'm going to go, you know, now we're in Tucson right now, which is where our storage unit is. And that magazine is sitting in that storage unit. And I'm scared to open the door of the storage unit because everything will fly out. But I'm really inspired to go sit in the heat, the Arizona heat in the summer, and get in that storage unit, which is supposedly, you know, climate control, because we have all kinds of art and stuff in there. But if I can get that magazine cover, and then it'll have the article too, that we wrote. Yeah, you do. I will, because you'll probably recognize some of the actors. Yeah, yeah. From Sydney. Yeah. I'll have to do that. I'll send it to you. Yeah, just because the front cover for the last magazine, which is called Splash in South Africa, to have, you know, Frankenfurter on the front cover was just classic, you know, it was like, you know, they banned it. I don't know why it was un-banned, which I'm glad, but South Africa was pretty. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, I mean, yeah, if someone had a picture of Jesus Christ on a cross, they'd put a little box over his private parts. Really? Wow. Yeah, yeah. So anything like what's going on in the world now, any kind of slight nudity, they'd put stars over women's boobs. It's like, that's what it was like. Everything was banned and pure, purity at the height. Victorian Britain, by the sounds of it, they used to cover up piano legs, you know, because they thought it might, yeah, they used to cover up piano legs, because they thought it might excite the male population with the mere sights, the mere glimpse of a piano leg might cause uncontrollable lust. No, I have to watch how I respond to that, but it's like, that's funny. Check it out. You can check it out on Google it. I will. Now that's funny. That's going to be cocktail time conversation for sure. That's hysterical. No way. Now that's funny. It shows you how repressed we were over here. Might as well as back in Victorian times, so it's a bit easier these days. Wow. And then all the Puritans came to America, right? So, for religious freedom in South Africa, they colonized us and said, okay, now anything. And the Dutch were pretty purists too. I mean, if you even think, you know, the Mayflower and everything, everyone went to Holland first before they came to the States. So this purity thing, and it is that's part of the Rocky Horror was like, no, it's done with the purity. You know, that's it. We're done with that. We want to have fun. Yeah, it was liberating, huh? Yeah, liberating is a good word for that, I think. And it just was super fun and silly at the same time, you know. Absolutely. Doesn't it take you back to the old movies too, like The Day of the Truthids and the creature from the Black Lagoon? Yeah, although those were all things that kind of played into Richard's writing and his thought process, all those kind of things, you know, they came from Planet X or whatever it was and all this kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, it didn't really shock anybody at the time. I don't remember it. You know, like sometimes you get people who got up and walked out of theaters because they were in some way offended by what they were seeing on the screen. But I mean, we didn't have anything that I think people were too busy laughing and just having fun. Well, I remember in the stage production, right? And here's another thing that's kind of unique is that it went from stage to film. And nowadays it's film to stage, you know, depending on the shows. But you know, it's just kind of different. But I remember one of the scenes, though, they're behind a curtain. So you can only see the silhouette of the silhouette of a man. We got, you know, and then all of a sudden you see this condom getting flung in the silhouette. And that's what people went back to see too. What was going to happen with the condom being flung on stage? Because if you messed up, that just wouldn't go. Like Frankly, that's not going to work. But that condom scene was everything. Well, that's funny, though, because I told you where the band were. Also behind that screen, right in front of me was where the shadow sex plane scenes took place. So we had, first of all, we had Frank's seducing Janet, and then Frank seducing Brad. And that was about two feet, three feet in front of me from where I was sitting. But again, it was hilarious. You know, people loved it. The audience, especially when they found out it was Brad. It was just fun and funny, you know? That it, yeah, man, I'm going to go to my storage unit. You have inspired me to do that. I'm going to go dig in there and look for that front cover. I haven't inspired anybody for ages, so I'm really pleased to hear that. Oh, well, you know, the arts are good for that. And Rocky Horror, that's a, I think, you know, just even the music, the music was just phenomenal. It really was. And how cool to be part of that, huh? You know, it's kind of me. Yeah, I think so. It is cool. Well, thank you again, Martin, and always good to have someone come on and relive some of the beginning memories of something that is a classic and to just, you know, bring us back to that. I wonder how many people are going to be reading your book, but then also going and watching the movie again and listening to the album again and all that good stuff. And I used to have it on vinyl too. You know, back in the day, old school, yeah, good stuff. That's not in the lock up, is it? Is the vinyl in the lock up, do you think? Or is it promising? No, I don't have any of my vinyl, I had the vinyl collection. But when you move countries and, yeah, it's a little difficult, but yeah, because when we left South Africa, we had to go. We kind of lost a lot of things, but yeah, yeah, well, we got, you know, our photography and stuff like that. So that was kind of crucial. Well, Lisa, can I say thank you? It's been a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you. Finally, you just post it. Yeah, we'll do. Take it easy, yeah. All right, you take care. Thanks Martin. Okay, bye now. Bye bye. And everyone again, the book is Behind the Curtain, my life in Rocky Horror, and you can get it on Amazon again. The author is Martin Fitzgibbon. Thanks for listening to Big Blend Radio's Toast to the Art Show. Please keep up with us at bigblendradio.com and keep up with Big Blend magazines at blendradioantv.com.
