(upbeat music) - Hey there, welcome to Big Blend Radio with your host, Lisa Nancy, editors of Big Blend Magazine.com. - Today's Big Blend Radio Happy Hour guest is best-selling author, Jamie Cat Callan, and she is joining us to talk about her latest book, it's called Parisian Charm School, and maybe I'm even pronouncing that incorrectly. - Parisian. - Parisian, yes, she can tell us. Charm School, French Secret for Cultivating Love, Joy, and that certain, Jenna Seikois. Now, maybe-- - Oh, you got that. - I'm thinking of getting there. It reveals how we can cultivate charm in all aspects of our lives so that we can embrace more love, passion, and joy in our relationships with others and with ourselves. It's been interesting, I've been reading her book, and it's very, to me, very much about understanding values in life and things that are, you know, just appreciating things, mindfulness, and it's just really about treasuring all moments in life. Jamie is also the author of the best-selling books, French Women Don't Sleep Alone, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo. And Bonjour, Happiness, and Oolala, French Women's Secrets to Feeling Beautiful Everyday. So you can go to her website, jammecatcalon.com, and that's J-A-M-I-E-C-A-L-L-A-N. So jammecatcalon.com, and of course, her books are on Amazon, all those great places. She's on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, go follow her on Instagram, she's got chickens 'cause she's on a farm. Jamie, welcome, how are you? - Lisa and Nancy, thank you. I'm so happy to be talking to you tonight. - We're excited to have you on here. So, okay, is it Parisian? - You know, come on, I mean, it's Parisian. Parisian is fine, Parisian's farm school. - I know, I know, just before we went live, I'm like, okay, how did we pronounce this? We have songs to play for you, but we can't pronounce them. We don't know what we're talking about, but I have to say, reading your book, and I was laughing with friends on Facebook, like, I need to go to charm school, this is good for me. But it really to me, reading this is about slowing down and that every moment matters in whether how you're speaking, having dynamics and in your voice, just, it seems like every second and every breath means something. - Yes, and I think that the reason the book is so popular right now in America is because we're rushing around and we're, you know, we're multitasking and we're, you know, texting every minute, checking our cell phones and then doing our social media and just a million things. And I think that the book addresses the idea of old world charm and slowing down and really just taking our time to enjoy every precious moment. And in certain ways, it's a very old-fashioned idea because I talk about the art of conversation and I talk about how, you know, women who are intelligent are sexy, that reading books is sexy. And it's the whole idea of getting back to our truest selves and wearing red lipstick. - Well, yes. But you don't have to wear red lipstick to be charming. I happen to love wearing red lipstick, but I wear red lipstick actually to, it's an homage to my mother who is long gone, but she always wore red lipstick. And so for me, it has meaning and association. So I'm not suggesting that all you women out there should all now go get yourself a tube of red ones, love that red, but I think rather ask yourself, you know, why do I love a certain, why do I love wearing blush when maybe it's not as fashionable as it used to be? Or why do I love pink lipstick? - All the things that you're attracted to in terms of your style, there's actually messages for you in the way that you see the world. And also, I really think that there's something about your ancestors that come into play. - My grandmother was British and from Hall. She taught me that red lipstick was for adult women and that it was crucial because it would mean, when you're talking to a man, that he would stop at your lips and not gaze any further down and that was the polite thing to do. - Wow. - Oh my God. I never heard that. I never heard that. - That's a great one. - Wow. - I know, they just thought that you don't have, just because of the whole thing, because she taught me how to put lipstick on. And in her thing, but you could only, you could start with pink and then you could go to coral, but you couldn't wear red as a teenager, you had to wait till you were a woman. And the reason being, it would stop the man. You want the man's eyes to look into yours, not any further down. Thank you very much. - I like that. - I love that. - I think it's funny now. - Yeah, but I also think that, yeah, red lipstick is for a more mature woman, I think, to a certain extent. And it's for a woman who knows how to carry it off and I think when you're 16, you're not quite ready for it. - No, they're beautiful. - It's really, yeah. - Maybe, yeah. I just think you're just not ready. And it's about developing confidence and developing a sense of who you are. - I find it really interesting, because just going, you know, reading your book and then looking back at my life of, you know, in the different stages we go through from girlhood to, you know, ladyhood and womanhood, it's really interesting how we change. Like, it took years for me to wear a handbag. And then at one point as a young girl that have a purse or a handbag carry it. - Carry it. - Carry it. Yeah, well, I'm still battling with it. - Well, where did you, wait, I'm curious. So if you didn't carry a handbag, where did you put your things? Where did you put that red lipstick? - I didn't. - And your pocket? - Yeah, I was a tomboy. I was a tomboy, but then it was like, I would also make my boyfriend's carry things. So that was good. - Okay, I finished. - Yeah, I would be like, here, if you got pocket, this is what you get to have. And yeah, yeah, I was like, no, you're gonna do this, but it's just interesting, like, there's this knowing who you are and when you're in your teens, you do get to this, like, this is who I am. And then all of a sudden you're like, no, now I'm changing to this. And then you get to my age and go, yeah, I'm back to that. But I'm going to do it with a little bit more refinement and baby likeness. And I find it really just, that's what I was reading through your book. I'm like, okay, yeah. I had more of those softer edges as a teenager in some ways and some ways not. And it just kind of reminds you of just, hey, check in with your womanhood as a woman, touch back into those places that eventually we, you know, if we look at right now what's going on in the world in equality for women, which has been a battle for a long time. And then there was a point in women's history where, okay, now we get to wear pants, you know, we get to, you know, we get to wear whatever we want. And then it was like, almost like, no, we're trying to be like men and the true strength. And I love that about, you bring this out in your book in so many different stories in so many different ways, is that we can wear a skirt, we can wear a red lipstick, we can have a beautiful scarf, we can wear high heel shoes, we can do all of that and still be strong and still be lady-like and feminine, but still be there at the top. You know, there's that-- - Yes. - Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I grew up during the women's movement and I was, you know, very much a part of that. And I, you know, I belonged to a feminist group. I went to Bard College, so I went to meetings and I feel I'm still all about that. That said, I think to some extent in our efforts for equality and equal pay and equal work and all of that, we may have thrown the baby out with the bath water in that we let go of some of the really lovely parts of that being a woman. And they're not about, it's not about being weak, it's about really embracing (speaking in foreign language) our truest selves are, you know, these things are, as you said, your mother told you about these things and this is a very, actually a very French thing that I think we're missing in America is that the mothers and the grandmothers will sit down with their daughter or their granddaughter and kind of tell them about their own unique style and what, you know, what's particularly lovely on them and give them a sense of the wonderful aspects of being a female. - You know, I think that in our effort to be equal, that in America's fast paced and kind of the word I wanna use is brusque. Everybody's in a hurry and if you bump somebody on, when you're walking, you know, down through the subway or something, it's like, okay, that's a given, yeah, sorry, I'm not, whereas when you go outside of America and you go to different countries, it's kind of more touchy-feely, like I know, we've lived out of this country in different places for the majority of our lives, yeah. And we noticed everybody was like, oh, you're gonna have culture shock leaving America going to a foreign place. The culture shock was coming back because we are, this fast paced, oh, we're so busy, you know, and I know in other countries when someone's speaking to you, they may just touch your forearm, you know, just this. - Yes. - Yeah, and they're not being sexual about it, they're just saying, hey, you know, maybe, this is an important point that I'm making here and they, you actually look each other in the eyes, not in a challenge or a confrontational way, but this is like, I just, you know, it's an activity. - It's an activity. - And here we seem to be like, oh man, if you look at that person too long, or if you ask a question, then you're a nosy parker, everything's so like, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop. It's not like that in other countries. - I think it's because, you know, we are very much a capitalist country, and we're all about, you know, the pursuit of happiness through our work. And there's an expression that I think Americans live to work but the French and many Europeans work in order to live. And so we, you know, there's much more of it. And I think that this is just our ancestors and I think it's just an old-fashioned value of really enjoying the moment and taking time for dinner parties and going for walks. And yes, talking to people and getting into conversations, you know, when I was studying or researching Parisian Charm School, I looked for the French equivalent to the pursuit of happiness. You know, I just, I'm very, I don't like this expression because it makes it sound like happiness is this thing, you know, and you have to chase after it. It's far away, you have to pursue it. You have to like, get on your cross trainers and chase. Whereas the French do not have this. They have the closest I could find is recherstable now, which basically means to look for a good time or to look for a good hour. And it sort of says, you know, happiness is right in front of you. It's not this thing you have to chase after and it's not a thing. It's recognizing the beauty and the loveliness of a moment in time. - Maybe it's because we came from a Puritan background. - Yeah. I think that's a lot of it. - I just think it works. - But also you make none of the book. You talk about France and Paris, like how values shifted and they've learned to value such, you know, small things like a flower. You talk about Remembrance Day. And I forgot, yeah, France started that, you know, or you know, every here's Veterans Day. But there's these, and you go back to World War I. I mean, that was just this major shakeup in the world. I mean, it's the world war. And I was so glad you brought it up because it's one of those things that everybody forgets about, you know. They forget about the beginning of all these major wars and of like now, of this current era. And I think what happened over there just shocked the heck out of everybody. I mean, and hurtful and painful because you're talking about lots of lives. And your complete community has been torn up. - Yes. Yeah, and basically the male population of marrying age disappeared. So there were, and the men that were left after World War I, I mean, it was such an awful war. They came home maimed. And you know, there was chemical warfare. And it was a really, really awful, awful war, particularly for France. I mean, France was just invaded constantly. And I think because of that, and yes, yes, there's something a little bit more fragile about the heart there and a little bit more. I don't know, I think the word is fragile. And the whole, I love that they really embrace its remembrance day. So it's to remember specifically the people who died and lost their lives for World War I. And I love that they celebrated, or not celebrated, but can memorize it with a flower, I mean, to me that's just, and they will sell flowers in the street. And everyone wears, they actually wear blue poppies more often than the red poppies. The British will wear the red poppies in their lapel. But you know, also for Mother's Day, the street vendors are selling lilies of the valley. And there's just this, I think it's a more of a closeness to nature, whether it's about food and vegetables, or it's about flowers. It's, you know why I stayed for a time in the Southwest of France. And even the little village of Ajahn, they're famous for their plums. So they have every year they have the Pruno Festival, which is basically a celebration of plums. And you know, they make all sorts of things that plumb ice cream and plumb cakes. And to me, it's very charming, it's very old fashioned. But what I love about it is that it's in the rhythm of the seasons, because I think here, because we can get, you know, our avocados from Mexico, at least for now, you know, anytime we want, we kind of lose this sense that there is a season for things. I really feel this on the farm, 'cause we're starting our seedlings now, and we're planning, and we're really looking forward to the fullness of the season. - I love this, because I think you're absolutely right. And yet at the same time, we do have, you know, a culinary revolution going on, at least with chefs who've been saying this for years. And it did help, you know, French chefs helped us in this country say, go, you know, stop with the boxed Stauffer's thing. You know, let's do things by the season and appreciate what we have. And you know, just reading your book and then, you know, thinking back to all of the interviews we've done over the years with musicians from France, and we have, like Hillary Larson, it goes over to France, she's a food wine traveler, Linda Kasam, that are regulars on our show. And travel writers, they go over there, and there's this, they come back and you can already hear it in their voice. There's this magical, like, everything is just special. And I think that's something so important and understanding seasons. All the musicians, just really, we've done a lot of musician interviews from France. Every time we talk to them, it goes back to exactly what you said, nature. And understanding and valuing these qualities that nature brings us, mother nature. And taking time, it is about going outside and having a glass of wine and listening with your friends to a babbling brook while you're having a sip of wine. I love your dinner parties in the book. I wanna do that. - I think it's more about living with in. - Yeah, you're connected. - Than living with in, appreciating the differences. As opposed to, I will now control everything because I think I can. And I think that we, as a young country, they have steps to go through to arrive at where we belong, and we're just right now, especially in this, I don't know, I think we're like at the, we're in our adolescence, right now compared to other countries. - I agree. Yeah, I agree. - And it's not split at some time. - Yeah, I think things are changing though. I feel actually very hopeful. There's so many more farmers markets than ever before. And there's a whole farm-to-table movement. So I think, especially young people seem to be really aware of, I mean, where does this food come from exactly? How long did it travel to get to me? - Right. - And I loved the whole, you know, by local. I love that. - Yes. And having a designated, who are you in a community? Who are you? We do a lot of tourism. And the one thing that makes people travel from one place to another is I want something, I want to learn and experience something new. And Paris is it. And so when you go somewhere, you want to hear different languages, you want different smells, different tastes, different lighting, different everything. You want it to be different, but we're in like the American economy and everything should be, I hate the saying of the cookie cutter, make it easy, chop off the expenses, everything should be the same. I don't like it. - No, no, it takes away all the individuality. - It takes the fun away. - Yeah, the individuality, that's exactly what I got out of your book is like, just how all the, everybody's a character and they celebrate their individuality. It's almost like, it's part of the culture to be an individual, whereas here, you have to be a rock star to be an individual. And you know what I mean? Exactly what I mean, because it's a cookie cutter. - I hate that when somebody tells you don't, you know, like we want this to be cookie cutter. - Yeah. - No. - No, I mean, what got you started in going to France and Paris and Paris and then just on, Nancy on the tourism, Paris is the number one tourist destination. - The city for over 10 years who has made the most money with its root tourism is Paris. - Yeah. - Oh, I didn't realize that. Well, it's, you know, no wonder. I mean, it's a magical place. - Well, yeah, because of its individuality, everything you write about. So what got you started doing that? - Oh, well, you know, first I should just say, because my grandmother was French. She was French-Canadian, but she was French. So I grew up with this French thing around me and I didn't, I didn't completely appreciate it, but it was there kind of in my subconscious mind. And I remarried in 2005 and I, you know, I've always been a writer, so I've written actually many books before the French books, but my agent, you know, Marie Juliani's book, Frenchman Don't Get Fat, had come out, which I loved, which I just like pre-ordered before, like a year before it was even released. I was so excited. And I was talking to my agent and I said, I would like a career like Marie Juliani's. And, but I write about, I don't, you know, I don't write diet books, so, but I write about love and relationships and romance and women and she said, then why don't you do that? Why don't you do that? And because I actually, I lived in France and Paris in my, right after college in my early 20s and I visited a few times, but I really hadn't been there in many years. So I created a kind of crash course in all things French. My friend Jessica Lee came with me. We decided, okay, this is for French women, don't sleep alone. We're going to research French women and love and their take on marriage and romance. We set up parties and bistros at women's homes, in restaurants, in community centers and all over. And we just talked to people on the street and just interviewed them and asked these questions. And then that was it. I just fell deeply in love. And I can't get enough. I keep coming back and I just, I feel like I keep getting deeper into the question of what makes French women so compelling, so mysterious, so interesting. So it's just to answer your question in a very roundabout way. It's this lifelong interest. You know, my grandmother was so elegant and she would come to our house on Sundays. This is in Connecticut and she always wore a little hat and stockings and heels and pearls and a scarf, always a scarf. And you know, she was just so French that I mean, and everyone in the neighborhood, all the kids in the neighborhood would run up to her. Like the Queen of England had a rust. And I just knew that there's something to this. - And you didn't have to have money to be that way. Like there's a, you talk about that in your book too, where there's a dignity. There's a pride of understanding and using what you have. I mean, we've learned that in French cooking, right? Use everything that you have. - And nothing is wasted. And it goes for clothing too. They have really small closets. They have, you know, like a few, I don't know, five like wonderful dresses and they wear them all the time. But you would never recognize it. - So it's not the same dress she wore last week because they switch things up with scarves and accessories and belts. And so it's not about, you know, more, it's more. It's about less is more. - I love that. I mean, that's, you have a whole chapter on that. And to me that resonates with us 'cause we travel and at one point we're on the road. Well, a few times in our lives, like at two to three years at a stint, we'll be on the road nonstop. And you learn a little bit. - Yeah, it's going to happen again. It's coming, it's working it's way back again. And you can't help it. It's like, yeah, exactly what you're saying, that passion and that itch. And it's like, oh, once you're into something and once you start traveling, it's an addiction and it's one of the healthiest. - I think it just changes everything. I mean, I've traveled to France all over France, but I've also traveled. I spent a month in Malta. I've been to the Azores. I've been, you know, a Germany and Spain and Italy and England and Scotland and I love how it just changes the way I look at my own life and my own home. And you know what? I actually come back really appreciating my own home and seeing it with new eyes. I mean, I think that's the real gift of travel. - Yeah, and you start to, again, value comes back and that's the thing. Reading your book goes back to values and understanding core, your core, understanding every little thing in life has a value and what you value as an individual is it. And if you don't value it, clean it out, move it out now, get someone who does value, clean it out, clean the closet out and start playing with things and take a fresh look. And I think that's something we get into these ruts because it's an easy street. It goes back to Nancy said, don't, you know, don't be the cookie cutter, it doesn't work. - Exactly. - In your travel, you met up with Madam M, your French teacher. Let's talk about her because this was just such a special relationship and I've had women in my life who have been that, that in different countries. Mrs. Far, remember for your piano teacher. - Yeah, there's certain people that only teach you a culture and there's a ladylike thing that they teach you, yet you can still, you can, am I allowed to say bad ass, I'm gonna we talk about the French culture. And all of these things, there's a lot of that, right? - Yeah, I'm quite allowed. - But yeah, I mean, there was this balance and there was a school of women that just had this, like Nancy said, this dignity and yet they kicked butt. - They were powerful. - It's a recognizing of self-worth to the point that you do not have to be brash. - Yeah, yeah, exactly. - And, but the other side of that, because this gets confusing, is being sexy without saying, I'm now going to bed with you, there's that. - And red lipstick does not equate to your immediately sex day, so there's a difference between being charming and being trashy. I'm gonna go to bed with anybody every time. That kind of come on kind of thing. - Oh, absolutely. And the French women really know how to be sexy but really elegant, really dignified. And I think that that's the key. It's not about wearing something that's really tight or showing a lot of cleavage or showing a lot of teeth. - It's a way, yeah, exactly. - It's, you don't really know what's under here but you wanna know, ha ha. - Yeah. (laughing) - And perfume is important, I would just like to say, that's one of their, you know, every French woman has a signature fragrance. - Huh, you know, that's funny. - So, okay, so it's a signature color 'cause like one of the ladies-- - Absolutely. - And it's just on orange, as I recall. Orange. - Oh my God, yeah, that was Valerie. And yes, she has a gourmet shop where she chooses, you know, particular items that are just for the shop. But the thing is, everything is really delicious but it's also really beautiful to look at. For instance, she'll have this spritz of olive oil but it's in this big, heavy glass that looks like a really expensive perfume bottle. And so it's like that. Everything is really, really elegant. And she, everything, her branding is bright orange, so not bright orange, more of a little bit brighter than an Hermes orange. And so she always wears orange and her boutique bags are orange. And her hair is kind of a henna that's almost orange. And I know it sounds a little wacky, but it's adorable. She is so adorable. - She knows who she is. So now I have to say that I took this color coating class a long, long, long time ago and it was like, okay, are you warm or cool toned in your skin? And if you're cool toned, then you should always wear these colors, shades of this, this, this, and if you're warm toned, you should wear this side. So if you, orange was the color they said was the most difficult for anybody to wear. - Yeah, yeah, but it was, it's so interesting because yes, I think most of us are like orange, like we should just stay away from orange. But Valerie said it's a happy color. It makes her feel happy, it looks great on her. And I asked her about red because I love red and she said, oh, you know, red could be aggressive and that this orange is more, it's a little bit more light-hearted. And this idea of really thinking about color in this way is very French because it's, you know, as Americans wear much more, I think scientific about it, like I have cool tones, am I a winter, am I a spring, am I a pool, am I hot? And we're kind of approaching color from this very analytical, intellectual way, whereas we might be better served by just asking ourselves, how does this color make me feel? How does it make me feel on an emotional level? Because this is, I think this might be the missing piece because I know, the reason I love red, I really analyze it, but thought about it on an emotional level, I had a little red jumper when I was in elementary school and I loved that jumper and I wore it every day. So I think it's about, you know, until it disappeared, right? And my mother was like, I don't know what happened to your red jumper. - Can imagine. (laughing) - There's this color on, you know, you asked me about Madam M, I feel like it's about Madam M. - You have to go back, you know, 'cause there's three women on a show, so we're all gonna talk about 10 things at once. - Thank you. - So we call, bring it back to Madam M. - I love that. - I love that. (laughing) But, you know, before we moved to LaBelle farm, my husband was a scientist in Woods Hole, at Woods Hole Oceanographic, and so that was on Cape Cod, and I met Madam M, and I'm not allowed to tell you her name because she's French and mysterious, but she lived in, I won't tell you the town either, but on Cape Cod, and she's a fumb to certainage. She grew up in Grenoble, and her, she ended up marrying an American GI after the war. She taught French to American GI's, and eventually came to, with this American GI, married him and moved to Massachusetts, and taught French literature at Wellesley. But, Madam M, this, she, I have to describe her to you, she, oh, for whenever I visited, she would wear like a camel-colored pencil skirt, and a cream blouse, and always a little scarf that matched, and her hair was always with pure white, but in a top knot, but this woman was a master flirt, and I think that this is a really important thing to talk about because we have this idea that flirting is a tease, and that flirting is bad, and flirting is some sort of sexual come on, and Madam M was flirting, and she taught me that the true meaning of flirting, actually in the French, they don't have the word flirting, it's contente florette, which means contentes to tell a story, and floretes flower, so it's like to tell a pretty story. And she was so flirtatious, even outside of her home, there were heart-shaped rocks that she collected on her walks. She had a dragonfly door knocker. - Sometimes I would come to the door for my lesson on Wednesdays, and it would be slightly open but dark, and I would knock, and I would, "Madam M, are you there?" And I was always a little worried 'cause, you know, she's getting on in there, and she would jump out and say, "Boom!" And I always-- - Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. - I know, and I thought it made me laugh so much, and I think that she really taught me about flirting, about the real meaning of flirting, which is basically to make life just a little bit more pleasant, a little more whimsical for everyone. So it's not just this, oh, you know, it's not a tease or anything like that, it's a really simple way to the art of conversation, and it makes everyone's lives a little bit more pleasant, you know, and I think it gives them-- - I think it gives them back into our childhood, to be honest, I think it goes back into what we lose as kids. All of a sudden, we get into the teenage mode, and we lost that childlike fun part, where it wasn't cool to have dragonflies and fairies in the garden and all of that, and then all of a sudden we become teenagers, emotions and hormones take control, and then all of a sudden we become adults, and the flirting is like, okay, there are hormones with that, but then there is that flirting is about something new and exciting, it's about education, and give and take, it's tit for tat, it's this back and forth, it's fun, it is like what you're saying, whimsical, and it is about going back to not forgetting that innocence that we had when we were a child, even though there can be a little, you know, hmm. (laughing) - You're so funny, but you're absolutely right, you're absolutely right, I do think that it is a little bit about getting in touch with, yes, who we were as children. - I think it's because we're a Puritan, and we're taught that a little, it's bad. - It's bad, it's a little home, it's good. - And less, it's regulated by this fat bat meal. - By the way, and then by the time they've regulated-- - You have to go through an inspection to have your all home. - Exactly, so they took all the fun out of it, so now you feel guilty, but then there's a side of you that's like, I like to do stuff you're not supposed to do, you know, so there's that. But when you, and I'm not trying to put America down, I'm just gonna go back to where a very young country builds on Puritan ideals. - Man, you're not gonna Puritan's big time today. - Well, does it work? - It doesn't work, it's old, it's, stop it, it's old. Get over it, the world moves on, and we need to keep up, and we need, and sometimes keeping up means you need to go backwards, not to the Puritan stuff, but to when people used to be people and care about each other and be nice to each other, not because you know them or you don't know them, just because they're actually human. I think, you know, I just, my mind is going with, madam and madam, when you embrace having fun, that means you have embraced the core of you, and I think that's the big deal about all of this, is that it's about knowing you, and once you do that, then you can be outrageous, and you can be refined, and it doesn't matter, because you've got your two legs. - Yes, and that's where the confidence comes from, and I think confidence, a woman who is confident, who knows who she is in this world, that's just, you know, that woman is irresistible. That's really what it's all about. If you know who you are, and you have a sense of confidence, then you can be mysterious, then you can, you know, feel really good in your own skin, and it's a very compelling thing. - Okay, so now let's talk about dating, because I think I want to go on the French side of this, because, no, no, no, because, you know, even now-- - I'm so glad you're growing up now. - No, but this is, because the whole idea of like, okay, coming back to this country, and the whole way of dating, I didn't understand if we were in a date or not, what is this, you know, and yeah, the whole thing of like, okay, we're gonna sit across from, you know, each other at a table, and then you have to watch him eat, like, that's not, like, not fun for me. - That doesn't sound like fun. - Yeah, no, especially if it's with somebody you don't know, you've just met this person, then it's, you know, it's like an interview, it's like where, you know, where did you grow up, where did you go to college, what kind of work do you do? What's in your 401(k), baby? - Yeah, good dating, and they have good dating. - So, I just think it's that is insane, that's insane. I don't know French women would ever do that. - I refuse, I refuse, and growing up in South Africa is a teenager, you had a lot of friends, and then as a woman, you go, okay, now you're all right, okay, you've passed, like, there's a, and it was flirtatious because you would have, there were parties over there that were, all big families and friends, and so all ages were there, parents, grandparents, and even beyond, and right down to the newest member of the family that was just born, and, you know, there was, everything was, it was shared madness and sure fun. - Exactly, and it gave, it gives a woman, this is also what the French do, what most Europeans do, is have these dinner parties, and they could be casual, they could be potluck, but when you're in a group like this where it's intergenerational, and it's old friends, and then some new friends, it gives a woman lots of time to think about like, oh, that fellow I met last week, he's very charming, but I'm going to see him again at next Friday night's party, and there's no rush, there's no like, oh my God, you know, we have a two hour date, I better make a decision, and maybe I'm allowed two more, two hour dates, and then it's either the end or we go to bed. That's like, that's a lot of pressure, isn't it? - But we have in this country, the three date rule, by the third date, if you don't go to bed, then you're over. - No, some say, if you don't put out by the lobster. - What? - If you don't put out by the lobster? - The lobster, I don't know the lobster dinner, I mean, now, as they say, you're putting out. And I'm like, that is not my, that's not happening with me. - I never heard of the lobster in here. - I never heard the lobster dinner, so then we're out. - And I don't understand, are you saying the third date is the lobster dinner date? - Yeah, they did, yeah, because each meal, they pay a little bit more for it, so by the time you get the lobster. - Oh, oh, oh, I thought it had something to do with wearing a bib and being messy and having butter all over it. - That's a good one. - I was thinking more on the big claw going, "Gotcha." Oh, wow, no, no. And some men will move to the lobster steak dinner at the very beginning, but then you know you're in trouble. - Yeah, and then you know that they're pushing things way forward, and it's about like the film, the amount you're-- - There's no, there's no, so they're basically, yeah, don't they? - It's, I'm gonna go back to my grandmother, who taught me more than my parents ever did, she called it the bum's rush, that's what it is. When the guy takes on the first date, and it's really expensive, she called it the bum's rush, 'cause he's gonna rush you and he is a bum. - Right, right, well this is the whole problem with that one-on-one date. I always, I mean, I remember, you know, way back when I was dating, I would always feel like I was a lamb going to slaughter. - I mean, I just feel so unnatural to me, 'cause I'd have to take my time, I'm just slow with these things. I mean, we're talking about your heart. We're talking about engaging your heart. You can't engage your heart after one steak and lobster dinner. - No, no, and that's the thing, that's what I'm saying. It gets to this, it goes back to the cookie cutter thing Nancy was saying about earlier, is that Nancy's all riled up here today, but I'm getting there when we talk about the dating thing, I'm riled up, because this is why men hate it when you just order a salad, 'cause they know you just said no. - Yeah, it's about that. - Oh, that's interesting. - So therefore, they're putting a financial amount through your value. - It goes back to this whole, it's this capitalism thing, because now we're putting, we've taken, you know, something that's romantic and something that is about the heart, and we've added a monetary value to it. Is this a lobster date? Is this a salad date? - It's coffee, we don't know, it's turnover time. - Right, coffee, we don't know, but even after meeting in groups, the French women don't go on those dates, they'll go for a walk. And that doesn't cost anything, 'cause they take the whole money thing out of it. And then even later, they're not as big into dining out as we are. The guy will, you know, invite you to his home and cook for you. That's a very typical thing. - That's nice. I like that, because then you can talk about it. - I do too. - Have some wine. - Yeah. - And I know that, you know, in France, it's like, oh man, reading a book, I'm just like, okay, I want that, I want this, and then you have to wait, you have like the soup nazi dude in there. You know, like you do certain things, I can't pronounce it, but there were certain like, you know, delicacies and baked goods, and you, I can't remember how to pronounce that at all, and I don't know how to pronounce it, but whatever you were eating or wanting, like you had to get there at a specific time and wait for it, and that's that value system again, of everything having a value, and not valued necessarily by money, and I want to be sure to say that, because it's about value of craft, value of soul, value of heart, and that's why I love this so much, because at the end of the day, it's the same thing we talk about dating, taking a walk. We have a whole Facebook group just for people taking a one-hour walk, because we really, we have a whole new movement that I can't wait to tell everybody about, but we can't say it yet, but it's about that, it's about mindfulness. Our last, our tour, our big one spirit of America tour, we traveled three years, and we're getting back on the road again, we just had it stopped for a couple of years, and regroup, and produce, and put our films together and everything, we're going to National Park units, the historic sites and the trails, and one of the things we realized was that people thought that if you're going to go to a National Park unit, not just, you know, Yosemite, you ought to be a hiker or an athlete, a rock owner, and we're like, no, you know, there's historic downtowns in the Gateway community, it's just like your book. Yes, yeah, there, you can start with little things, it doesn't have to be, everything doesn't have to be a major production. By the way, we live near the National Park for Martin Van Buren, oh wow, yeah, you have to come to that one and then come visit me. Okay, and have cider, apparently you're working on some cider and you have sunflowers, I'm interested in sunflowers, we just did an interview about sunflowers yesterday, and so, so this is like an organic good crop, I didn't know that sunflowers were native here, but apparently they are. Well, you know, we planted seeds and, oh, I don't know, but certainly they can grow, I'm in upstate New York, so certainly they can grow, and, but I should say, you know, my husband does most of the gardening, he's really the farmer, we have chickens, we get eggs every day, we have turkeys, it's really fun, it's a little bit like green acres in that. Cool. Do you remember that television show? Oh, okay, wait, so now you're on a farm, but you're all Parisian, but that's for me, so when you serve dinner, you're going to wear a scarf and earrings and your hair up and high heels and do the whole thing, right? Or no? Yeah, I do, I do, I wouldn't say I'm necessarily, you know, completely dialed up, but I, I, I'm cooking, I made actually lasagna tonight, and I'm wearing, well, I wasn't wearing a scarf, but I was wearing little heeled boots, and my red lipstick, and I, I, you know, what else, a skirt that I bought in Paris, and oh, and an apron, so not old jeans. That's also a thing we, we, for some reason we lost the idea of wearing aprons, and I think they're so charming and adorable, why don't we wear aprons? I like aprons, because, because I know why, because, okay, I'm going to go back to Nana, because Nana had aprons, a whole drawer in the kitchen just for aprons, and there were different patterns, but they tied at the waist, and they were fully, right? So, yes, now we have these big brown things that come from, like, working in McDonald's or something, where it goes hoop over your neck, and it's big bib connected to a straight piece cloth. They're not pretty anymore, that's why we don't wear them. They're not pretty. They're not, they're not, they're not. Any, if any of your listeners want to start a new business, I think, you know, making, you know, vintage style aprons, but updating them for the modern women, I think that would be a great business. And they can have a martini holder. You don't want to, to be honest, you do not want this big canvas cloth over your chest. No, it's not a tractive, right? No, it's not ugly. And the house coat used to be sexy. Back on the first three buttons. No, but they used to be the waistline. No, they used to have a coat. Yeah. Or they used to, and also, you know, it's so funny you should mention this, because I was just, like, googling this the other day, house dresses. I was looking up for some reason, the history of fashion. And, you know, in the 1940s and 50s, women wore, and I think even a little into the 60s, house dresses. So they were these dresses that were, you know, just simple cotton floral things, but you would wear them over your dress so that when you were working in the kitchen or wherever, you, you know, you still looked nice, that it was this charming thing. And you could open the door and you could be working, you know, and we're talking, yeah, it's not the same as what, you know, wait, what do they call them? Dust coats. Dust coats, yeah. And when it got, when it got to all in the family, eat it, that is not a sexy house coat. No. I'm just saying. No. That was where it started to go downhill. And so, but there is a piece. I love that you cooked dinner and, you know, dress up for it because I think, like, I even tell people, I remember years ago being on someone else's show talking about people going on radio shows and teaching them how to be a good guest. And, and also teaching people how to actually host a radio show. And, you know, we're not typical interview style, as you can tell. And, but I was telling someone, you know, actually when you do a radio interview, you may be at home or in, you know, in your office or whatever. But if you're at home, and if you're hosting a show, don't be sitting in your jammies. You know what I mean? It's the same thing as people running their business. You need to dress up as though, hey, I'm meeting you in person. And exactly. You can't just be, you know, I'm in my position. You know, you can change your calls. Yeah, you know, it's, it's funny because this came up. I mean, before I called you, my husband said, are you going to put on your nighty? And I said, no, no, I'm going to be on the radio. And I, you know, this is important. And, but I have to say, yes, so I'm wearing something really nice right now. I'm wearing a blue sweater and a skirt and, and, and the cute ankle boots. But it makes me feel much more professional. And it makes me feel happy. And I think that there's a lesson in this for the world when you, when any of us go out into the world. And I know it's a little difficult because we might go from our Pilates class to the supermarket, you know, to the bank or the post office. But I think we should resist the temptation to spend our entire day, you know, in our leggings and tank tops and, you know, big sweaters because I think that we, we, because we don't feel we look our best, we don't want to get into conversations with people. We kind of, you know, where we're hiding out a little bit, we're, we're, we're hiding our charm a little bit. So, why we don't look any better. A little, exactly. So little things, just by wearing something that's, that's nice and that makes us feel good. We, people feel that we're inviting them into a conversation and, and that makes them feel good. It makes us feel good and we're, we're a part of our community and a part of the world. It's, it's such a simple thing we can start doing. And invest in scarfs. I think that you're right with scarves, scarves, scarves. I'm like, I can see them again. Oh, try it. Just as an experiment. It's true. All, all the ladies out there should just wear a scarf every day this week and see how it shifts the molecules in the room. Okay. If we have, okay, if we, as women are going to wear scarves for a week, I would like to ask men to stop going to the supermarket in tank tops and scratching your big bellies. Or in the hair. Oh, exactly. Stop it. It is so just instantly gross. And what we know, Lisa and I call it, Lisa and I call it what we call emergency adjustments to whatever you're wearing below your tank top. We don't want to stop that. We don't want to see that either. Stop it. No, we don't need to see that. Oh, I can see you. You girls are so funny. Happy hour for sure. My gosh. I feel like you're sitting with you and having martinis. I mean, but, but you did a lot of champagne over there. I mean, you, you like enjoyed like the fruits of Paris and France when you were there. And I think like we do. Although, um, my husband, uh, has made a signature cocktail for me called, um, it's the side car, but he makes it, um, a special way for me with a lot of lemon because I love lemon. And, um, yeah, they actually wrote about it. We were in the New York Times vows column. Um, I think the beginning of February and, um, they wrote an article about how, um, he, you know, every morning he brings me my coffee in bed and in the evening. Wow. My cocktail and we sit by the fire and, you know, I, I have to say part of this is, of course, I'm an older lady and I've, you know, a lot of the things that I embrace and do, it's not necessarily something that everybody can do, but little, little things, just taking the time to appreciate your partner and these moments in the day and certain rituals, it can make an, an amazing difference in one's life. I love it. I love it. Your book, you know, to me, you're giving women some things to just get back on their feet at times too. To be a woman, sometimes, especially moms. I'm not a mom, but I have friends who are moms and I'm like, okay, you need to take some time out, like step outside, come back, be, be a woman again because you do feel good. I am from a Tom Boy kind of background, that's who I am, but I do know it does feel good to dress up and suddenly you put the lipstick on your leg. And if you have the right pair of shoes is a thing. It is true. It is about, it is about the good pair of shoes. It does talk to me about my hiking beat, that's the whole other thing. But, but no, I might have to say the, the Tom Boy thing, that's a look, that's a style and it's, it's important that you, if you love it, you embrace it and lots of French women have that too. It's not, it's, there's not one way to be. There's lots of different ways to be. It's about knowing who you are and finding that out is so cool because it changes too. It changes throughout your life and being present with that, then you are more present with others. As soon as you're more present with yourself, you're more present with others. When you feel like, when you're confident in your looks, right, or you feel good about the way you look, then you are able to converse with somebody without thinking about yourself. You're supposed to be thinking about the other person. If you're awkward, or you're wearing something that you're like, on the sun looked that good, then you're really thinking about yourself. So you're not thinking about them. Okay. Yeah. There's like so much in this conversation. This is crazy. I just love this. You, both of you, both Nancy and Lisa, you're really, really wise. You really just bring a great deal of depth to the interview and I'm loved talking to you. I know. I want to hang out with you some more. I'm like, I want to go to Paris with you and have champagne and I want to go on that foodie tour with that lady that took you to all these hidden spots and like, oh yes. There's some magical things that are cool and Nicole has a website personal Paris and yes, yes, she does this. She will take you to secret places in Paris and custom make a tour for you. She's a lovely, lovely gal. She's actually been up here on the farm. Wow. Well, I know. And what was the sandwich that your husband made? I'm not trying to give the book away. You guys have to go get it, go get it. Okay, remember, Parisian, Parisian, Charles, go get it right at some point. So you're thinking Parisian, which is like a female woman, a woman who lives in Paris, but this is just for everyone. It's Parisian. Oh, oh. I know. It's really a simple pronunciation. Wow. Okay, so I was saying it all right until you came on the show and then it's been like, oh, it should be Parisian. I was all fine until that happened and then I'm like, under pressure. No, but I had no idea that. I did not know that. So thank you for that. No. And I think this is the part about traveling and reading books with people that have been there and, you know, absorbed the culture, which obviously you have. But we will come see when we get to upstate New York. It could happen sooner than you think. So just, you know, we want to complain with your chicken. Give me a call. Yes. We want to play with the chickens and we want to try the cocktail. But at that point, we're talking about cocktails. It's time to play. Happy house. Okay. So, Jane, if you could spend happy, I know it's more crazy at this, right? If you could spend happy with anyone in the world alive or passed on, who would they be? Or who would he be? And where are you going to spend that happy hour? What are you going to drink and what are you going to talk about? Okay. So I would like to spend my happy hour at the Ritz Hotel, but in the bar hammingway. And that's where they invented the side car, which I told you a special drink for me, made of cognac, quancho, and lemon juice. And this is the place where Cole Porter, composed, begin to be kind, began. Anyway, that song. And also, yeah, F. Scott Fitzgerald had his favorite place there and Hemingway and Gary Cooper. But I would say the person I want to spend my cocktail with is Hemingway. And I know that doesn't sound, that might sound surprising to you, but I actually think Hemingway is a very, very sensitive, beautiful writer. And I love a moveable feast. And I love the sun also rises. And I just, I've always loved his writing. So that's, that's what I would like to do. Wow, wow. Have you read Robert Wheeler's book on him? Robert Wheeler is, he's been following Hemingway's journey. And he did one on Paris. He did one on Paris. Yes, he's going to be on our show on March 23rd. March 23rd, okay. Ernest Hemingway, I'll send you the links. Yes, I'm very, I'm obsessed with Hemingway. He did the book and it's a beautiful, it's, this is a awesome book, Hemingway's in Havana. But anyway, yeah, I'm looking, I'm trying to see if I have his thank you, I will send you the link because he wrote a book on him in Paris. And I was packing up about that. I'm like, what's going on? Paris is knocking on her door. Apparently, we need to go. And that's okay, we'll go. It's a sign, it's a sign, you must go. Okay, we'll, we'll do it, we'll do it. And it's a great place to, if you were going to take a one-hour walk with Hemingway in Paris, where would you go? I think I would walk through the trillaries with him. And I would just, you know, ask him about his life, and all of his travels, and about Key West, and about Hadley, and just everything. I, yeah, I would, I, and hopefully we wouldn't get into a bar fight later on. Oh, I want to go if that's happening, okay? I'm there, I want to go to the back of that. Also, like, you know, sophisticated and all but Hemingway is a cute bar. I want to talk about his cat, and then there are nine toes. Yes, yes. So, have you been to Hemingway? Were you not on edge during the hurricane? Like, I mean, obviously, everybody worried about everybody. Yes, and we were all wondering, are the cats all right? Well, the cat, Hemingway's cats, be okay. I know, he was like, and he has the highest place on and keep the keys. He is like, but still, it's like, dude, Hemingway's cannot go down. Like, his place cannot go down. It's not allowed. It's not allowed. I love that. I love that you love Hemingway, and I love your book. Everybody again, now I can't say it. I want to say Peruvian Charm School. Am I saying it wrong now? Am I saying it correctly or wrong? It's close enough, darling. Close enough. Peruvian, Parisian, Parisian. Parisian, Parisian, Parisian, Parisian. I'm all messed up now. Parisian, you're doing a Dutch thing. I'm going Dutch. Parisian, Transco, French, Secret for Cultivating Love, Joy, and The Certain. That certain, is Genesécois. I got that part for some reason. That, it was perfect. It was fun somewhere. I knew that. Jamie, Cat, Callen, everybody. Go to our website, JamieCat, Callen.com. Go get the book on Amazon. Go everywhere. Where books are sold. You'll get it. And women, you've got to get this. It's nourishing. That's the word. It's nourishing. Yeah, nourishing is a good one. We've had so much fun with you. I didn't know our conversation was going to be this crazy and cool, and I loved it. I loved it. Thank you for that. I loved it too. Thank you. Nancy and Lisa. Thank you. Okay, we're going to play a song for you now, right? Because it's naughty. "Suede Trops." Is that how you pronounce it? Like, it's from John Ranagar, friend John Ranagar in New Orleans, and it's off of this album Gypsy Land. It's live. Is it "Suede Trops?" Am I saying it anywhere? Yes, close. "Suede Trops." Okay, yeah. Here it is, everybody. "Suede Trops." Don't forget, big blend radio airs live daily. 4 p.m. Pacific Times, 7 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Thursday, 11 a.m. Pacific Times, 2 p.m. Eastern Time Friday through Sunday. So anyway, big blend radio.com has a schedule, but here it is. "Suede Trops." Thank you. Take care. Thank you. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]
