(upbeat music) - Hello everyone and welcome to Garden Gossip, the home and garden show with your host Lisa Nancy, editors of BigBlend Magazine.com. - Hey everybody, welcome to Big Blend Radio's Garden Gossip Show with Nancy and Lisa. We are the crazy mother, daughter, travel team and publishers of Big Blend Radio and TV Magazine. That's our variety publication that does cover gardening and nature. And also we publish Parks and Travel Magazine, obviously covering Parks and Travel, as well as our Love Your Parks tour as we travel across the country, documenting parks and public lands. And one of the things that's really important is our parks and public lands and also what we're doing in our urban spaces, in our gardens, are we planning the right thing to attract pollinators, butterflies, bees, bats, birds. And we're very excited to have Kim Ironman back on the show. She is the founder of Eco-beneficial and today she's gonna talk about how we can really help pollinators in our gardens. It basically, listen, like we have dead zones in the ocean from oil spills and all kinds of things, climate change. But we need to look at what we're doing in all the spaces that we have to help pollinators because they really do help our food and they're pretty. And it's part of the cycle of nature. So she's joining us to talk about that. Her book is out, her brand new book. It's beautiful. Everyone, you gotta get it. It's so beautiful. And it has a really good hardcore information to get us started to help pollinators. It's called the Pollinator Victory Garden. It's available now through Quarry Books and of course, Amazon, all your favorite bookstores. And if it's not in your local bookstore, go ask them to put it in there. But you can also go right to Kim's website. It's ecobeneficial.com. So welcome back, Kim. How are you? - Well, thank you so much for having me again. I'm great, I'm past the flu. - Yeah, y'all got it, the flu this year. Listen, you know, and I wonder about that. This sounds terrible. But when all that stuff's in the air can sickness hurt pollinators like bees? I mean, do they get the flu because we sneezed on the plant? - Well, that's a really interesting question. So, you know, there are some diseases and illnesses that can cross species, but I think by and large, the viruses that bees and other pollinators get are a little bit different than the ones that we get. So, yes, I don't know if we're sharing germs yet, but-- - But we are doing things that we are part of the issue of their decline, right? - Oh, with out-of-doubt habitat loss, pesticide use, fragmented landscapes, lack of floral resources. These are all things that, unfortunately, we've kind of done as human beings, but we can undo them and we can improve the situation. And that's why I wrote the book. - And victory gardens. I love the title victory gardens. I mean, even now, you know, you know, I remember our White House used to have a garden to teach kids about fresh vegetables and fruits and, you know, things like that. And victory gardens were done, you know, I remember back in World War II, not that I was there at the end, but I remember stories about this. - The importance of those gardens and tell us a little bit about the title victory gardens where I'm from the World War II. - Yeah, actually, in World War I as well, it's not quite as well known, but in both World Wars, there were these victory gardens for food defense. It was basically a way to get people engaged who couldn't participate in any other way in the war effort. And I know in World War II, at least 20 million American households created victory gardens to be part of the war effort. So I thought about this and I thought, well, you know, it's time to actually do the same kind of thing, but this time to help pollinators. And the dirty little secret is if you help pollinators, you're helping your entire ecosystem. So you're gonna have really a wide ranging positive impact by following some of these ideas. - And when you talk about pollinators helping the whole ecosystem, like to me, I, you know, talking about dead zones, it's something that's kind of been stuck in my brain for the last few years about how we are using our landscaping and our backyards, even, you know, in regards to where we're growing our own vegetables and fruits. A lot of us are doing that so that they're organic, but our roadways, our community parks. So when you look at a victory garden for a pollinator, like for me, I think it transcends the backyard, right? It can go everywhere. - Absolutely. - Absolutely, victory gardens can be absolutely anywhere, even if you live in an apartment and you have a balcony with some containers, you can create a little mini victory garden, no matter how small the landscape. But one of the points you're raising is we've got to really start thinking pesticide-free. If we're gonna support pollinators, it's about being pesticide-free. And that is so critically important. My book, in fact, is dedicated to Rachel Carson, her silent spring. - Mm-hmm. - And rocks, yeah. And synthetic pesticides have gotten us into a lot of trouble, but unfortunately, some folks don't realize that, you know, organic pesticides are not benign. And some of our organic preparations can be lethal or sub-lethal to delicate creatures like bees and other pollinators. So really changing our perspective of our landscapes, giving up perfection, and also thinking about what nature does to keep things in balance. Nature, a healthy natural ecosystem, and we can create those, has an abundance of small-flower native plants that support beneficial insects. Our garden allies that prey on insects that are pest insects. So it's really about planting to attract these beneficials, to keep our pests in check. And if we take care of our plants and keep them healthy, we will not have as many problems in diseases, et cetera. - Would that also help the soil? - Absolutely, yes, absolutely. And that's a really good point. Getting to know your soil sounds kind of silly, but that's important. So when I work with clients, I always suggest that they first do a soil test to their local extension, and really gets a handle on what the pH is and what the soil texture is. And if there are any macro-neutrients that are really out of balance, 'cause only then can we figure out what's the right combination of plants to plant for our particular situation. - Especially I think if you move into like a new home and they just construct it, there's a whole lot of stuff left there that you might not know that's in your soil. And they tend to strip off top soil when new housing goes in, which is really terrible. So what we can do is start thinking about how we build up that soil biology to support plants, which in turn support wildlife, including pollinators. And that's about getting life back into the soil. It said that a teaspoon of healthy soil has more microorganisms than there are people on the planet. I mean, it is filled with life. So getting compost, compost teas, these kinds of things to increase soil biology and the minimizing disturbance as much as possible are really keys. - And native plants are something, as we travel and go through different parks, seeing the, we start to see native plants. What's interesting about being park travelers, last time we chatted with you, we were based in Tucson, Arizona, right outside Saguaro National Park. We travel, as human beings, we travel to parks to see things like Joshua trees, Saguaros, to see the giant coastal redwoods and Sequoia National Park. You go there for Sequoia trees, you go to these places to see these unique plants. But I'm like, part of our makeup is that we should be coexisting with them in our neighborhoods, in our gardens, because that's integrity to the land and who we are in each of our areas. So I find that interesting, but I also see that, as we've traveled, that we're going to these parks to see things like Saguaros, but as, before you get on the hiking trail, you need to scrape your boots off, even your backpacks and things. I wanna talk about bats with you big-ton, 'cause that's a huge deal. But we're scraping our shoes off because park travelers, we're carrying seeds from another park in. So we're seeing the native plants, and you cover this in your book, you talk about kudsu, is it kudsu? 'Cause we saw that in Louisiana, kudsu. - That awful thing, yeah. - I thought it was pretty until I read your book. - Yeah, it's, so for listeners, you know, kudsu is one of our most difficult, invasive vines that just completely swallows up ecosystems and eliminates the native plants that would be there. We have such a problem with invasive plants in this country now on every state in the nation. And we need to be aware of that. Don't plan them if you have them, remove them and replace with natives. You know, it's all about evolution. You know, we can't get away from that. Wildlife has evolved with the native plants that support them. And sometimes they're very intricate connections. You know, I think most people know of the monarch butterfly caterpillar and milkweeds. It's obligate host plant. But there's so many examples like that that we are really not informed about. And mother nature kind of really does no best. So if we can support her, you know, we're going to support pollinators too. - And the one thing I've seen too, is you're changing your landscape. You don't have to like suddenly rip out your entire yard, right? You can do it step by step, right? - It can be very intimidating to face the task of just making complete change. I caution clients not to do that, to take small steps and create projects in priority order. And start small, get a success into your belt, have a fantastic pollinator garden. It's maybe a pollinator island in the middle of that green desert, your lawn. And then keep going with it. But if you make it more scalable, so you can accomplish it, you're going to be in a much better shape than try to take on too much at once. - Do you have some great tips, especially the appendix part of your book, talking about, you know, here's your tips. Here's what you do, but you talk about planting in succession too. So you have to know your seasons. - What do we need to know for our food as well, right? - Sure. Well, you know, there are so many principles to pollinator gardening and gardening with native plants. And one of them, as you mentioned, is planting for that succession of bloom. And a lot of parts of the country that's going to be from spring through fall, but in warmer parts of the country, you know, it may be year round. So we really want to have overlapping times when the multiple native plants are in bloom. So we constantly have a source of forage for pollinators. But here's the catch. We also have to plant diversely 'cause different pollinators are attracted to different types of flowers and the characteristics that they've evolved with are called pollination syndrome. So what's going to be accessible and appealing to a bat, for example, is going to be, it's going to be very different for, you know, say a native bumblebee. So having a diverse array of flowering plants, of different flower structure, color, sizes, shapes, et cetera, and even fragrance, while a bee can smell a fresh scent, a bird has no sense of smell. So it won't be, a fragrant plant isn't really useful to a bird. It will be to a moth. So we need to achieve what I call floral balance, this balance between plant diversity and plant sufficiency. Enough of a given plant where pollinators can find it. And then have a succession of diverse bloom throughout the entire growing season, you know, and that growing season will depend on where you live. - So this is like farm to table in your backyard. - Yeah, there you go. - It's like running a restaurant. Like you want to, yeah, so and so doesn't go, this is a vegetarian over here. No, this one, that one is an omnivore. - Right, right. - And carnivores, right? So you also want to have that because you can even have-- - Absolutely. - Aren't there also, you know, I remember when we lived up in Joshua Tree area and no Tucson too, the Datora at night would shine with the moon and, you know, different plants, things happen at night 'cause that's important that we talk about it. 'Cause that also, I'm bats, I would, bats like to go and hang out on the saguaros at night. - Right. And, you know, so we have a limited number of pollinating bats in North America and they're mostly centered in the Southwest, parts of very Southern California. And they're really important to plants like agave and saguaro, cactus, they're absolutely critical pollinators, but they're gonna be active at night and they're gonna be looking for very fragrant flowers that have a fragrance at night and are just loaded with a dilute nectar. So that's, you know, that's something to think about. I think if you're in that part of the country, that pollination is really key. And as you've alluded to bats are really suffering population crashes in North America. Unfortunately, a lot of it's due to human activity. - We've noticed that in parks because some caves you can't go into because they have like a white something or other stuff. - White-no-syndrome, yeah. - Yeah, the white-no-yes, yeah. - Yeah, the speelunkers ons who go caving, unfortunately often have tracked, you know, things in these caves. So really, you know, trying to understand the creatures that we want to support a little bit more, understanding what their needs are and what's risky for them is key. So habitat is a subject matter that most people don't talk about when they talk about gardening. So we don't have to just give pollinators floral resources and host plants in the case of moth and butterfly caterpillars, but we have to provide them with habitat. And as an example, our native bees, we have tons and tons and tons of native bees, about 3,600 named species of native bees in North America. Yeah, and about another 400 that are unnamed. So maybe 4,000 species of native bees throughout North America. And the vast majority of these native bees are solitaries. They need individual homes. And the majority of those bees are going to be nesting in the ground. So thinking about reserving an area of our landscapes in a sunny area where the soil is not too compacted and not too wet, an area that's really bee habitat territory is going to be an important part of this. And then for the other percent of bees that are native, the other 30%, so 70% nest in the ground, about 30% nest in cavities, old mouse holes, tree cavities, pithy plant stems, even in beetle burrows of dead trees. So we need to start thinking about not just flowers, but habitat too. And that's interesting because when they, like we've learned over the years, don't rake up your leaves because that becomes a habitat and fall and when do you cover that in your book too? Which is so important, but everybody needs a home and everybody has a different, and when you look at, you know, when we go out house hunting or apartment hunting or condo hunting, whatever it is, you're looking for a place that suits you. So I'm just trying to put it into the human terms. - Sure, absolutely. - And I think what's interesting about this too is like, again, I'm gonna go like to some, you know, people have Saguaro cactus in their neighborhoods. We're lucky that way, not that we're there anymore. But it was awesome what they did because it's also a dark sky community, which is really great for that. - Oh, that's great. - Right? - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, so you had javelina's running the neighborhoods and, you know, they did a good, they are still doing and doing even more in that regard. But when you have that habitat in your backyard and you can actually create all these different habitats, things that we've learned in parks are the parks, how they do have these diverse habitats, you start to see all kinds of species, Pinnacle's National Park in Central California. It's over 400 bee species, which is insane. But they also had to go through a stage of there was wild boar. There was all these things that weren't supposed to be there and they had to do a lot of cleaning out of the land to make things happen. So it's interesting going places like that to see it, but then bringing it home and going, okay, don't take anything out of a park. I mean, bring it on home and have that visual of what could be in your own backyard. And I think for kids, especially, to be part of that process, to understand, by having it in your backyard, like you said, even if it's, when we're in an apartment, we have, you know, native plants on our backyard and we watch a verdance with their babies come for water. You know, it was amazing, little verdant birds. So you can do this in most places or you can even go rental plot, you know? - Absolutely, community garden, you too. - But when you watch that, then you have this understanding and you're part of the process. You're part of the ecosystem then. - Anyone who has a landscape has an ecosystem and often it's pretty damaged. So a really good idea is to go to local natural areas that are near you and see what's there and what it looks like and the plants that are growing, ignore the invasive plants, okay? - Yeah. - Get a sense of what should be there and reflect that in your planting because those are the plants that are going to support pollinators and other wildlife. And, you know, a landscape that's filled with life is so much more interesting than a landscape that is denuded of wildlife. And, you know, where I am, I'm in New York, north of Manhattan and I have neighbors that don't even know what an opossum is. - Oh, wow. - And freak out when they see an opossum and I think, oh my gosh, that's so back on the pool. That an opossum can live 16 miles north of Grand Central Station in my backyard. - So, we need to start rejoicing and celebrating nature instead of being terrified of it. - I'm seeing more and more parks and communities, a lot as we travel, we see communities like go, okay, we gotta look at our parks and that they're starting to understand because of scientific research and data and even communities going, we have gang problems, we have anger issues, our community is unhealthy. Like if you have too many homes with too many angry issues and it's gonna become an angry community and they're starting to put more green spaces in, more trails, hunk benches. I've done a lot of research on this. I've kind of beaked out for the last few months over this and it's kind of interesting to see communities step up. Plan are stepping up, some don't, some do and, you know, I encourage everyone to do it because they're starting to see that people change into a, we become better humans when we connect with nature. Have you seen that? - Absolutely, I mean, everyone deserves a connection with nature and this movement of environmental justice is really profound, you know, I see, so I live near New York City, I see the High Line which is the raised railway that has been now turned into, you know, essentially a huge garden, I don't know if you've had a chance to visit it, but they get literally millions of visitors a year. It, people have a desperate need to connect with nature and too few opportunities to do that. So, you know, even if you're running a business and you have a little bit of a landscaper in front of your business, get a pollinator garden and get kids engaged, you can use some native edible plants too to show folks, you know, that yes, we really are connected here and, you know, really try to make an impression on children when they're young, so they care about nature when they get older. - We recently interviewed a family therapist, it was Dr. Amy Stark, I remember her name, I've got to remember, we had to do so many interviews but she came on our show, she had written a children's book about monarchs and she has a little garden, she's in, I think, is it San Diego or Orange County, Nancy? It's seven California and she has a tiny, tiny, tiny garden where her practice is, but because she planted native plants, all the butterflies are there, hummingbirds, you name it and what happens is that the patients come in, the families with the kids and everybody's glued to the garden and suddenly communication is happening, so her therapist's office is starting to happen, garden style because of the monarchs. - That's fantastic. - Isn't that cool, so that's kind of where I want those, everyone to understand that that connection with nature is so positive but monarchs, this is a thing too, we're seeing, like I see stats and oh, some are that they're doing better, they're not, where are we in statistics in regards to the monarch butterfly do you think? - So there are two essential populations of monarchs in North America, one is resident on the west coast, primarily in California and then, of course, down into Mexico, but that western population is crashing and is in really deep, deep trouble. It's a smaller population, the population that overwinters in the mountains of Mexico, that's the population that comes across the country up here where I am in the northeastern part of the United States and they're doing better but it's really all about habitat and absence of pesticides and for all resources. So a lot of people have been planting milkweed, there are many different species of milkweeds in the United States, pick ones that are appropriate to your particular region, but milkweed's not enough if they're pesticides around, so we get it again, get off the pesticide kick, but these monarchs that migrate to Mexico, they need that habitat and we've just had a couple incidents in Mexico, one person was murdered who was a conservationist. - Oh my God, I know. - So what the heck is going on there? There's something-- - Chemical companies, yeah. - Yeah, really, really disturbing. So we need to start protecting these people and protecting those spaces and make it clear that this can't ever be tolerated and prosecute those crimes. - This is one thing we can do, take into our own hands. I think when we look at what's going on around the world and in our country, we can all argue and draw lines in the sand which doesn't really help anything, or we can take action. My favorite quote is from Joan Baez, an action is the antidote to despair. And your book gives us the simple tools of action that we can take care of, you care about butterflies, well, you better care about butterflies because it's gonna result in you having food, right? And they're beautiful to look at, but it's our food. It's our food system, pollinators are our food system. And nature, Nancy, isn't this true, Nancy? You always talk about this. It's like we don't have a life without nature, right? - No, absolutely not. And the more, when I see housing developments go in and then years of them trying to fill the homes, you wonder, well, okay, what do we just do? You know, we destroy a bunch of places where nature can thrive, putting not homes, but the homes are so costly that they have trouble selling or renting them out. So it's like a, we have to start really getting realistic in our thinking. - Absolutely, we're part of nature. It's not an incidental thing for us. And, you know, the sooner that we understand that the better off we're gonna be is, you know, pollinators, animal pollinators. So we're talking about bees and butterflies and bats and moths and even wasps and beetles are the largest group of pollinating animals on earth. There are many different pollinators and they actually pollinate about 80% of all flowering plants on earth. So it's not just, you know, our food, but it's all these other flowering plants that exist. Now it said that about one third of our food crops are pollinated by animal pollinators, which is a lot. But the UN, yeah, the UN has shown that actually the majority of food crops benefit from animal pollination, even if they don't require it. So the result is increased yields and better quality of food crop. So pollinators are really important and we can do something about it. That's the great news. Anybody can. - And native plants are pretty. Honestly, I want to touch on this about going and deciding, okay, we're going to start the garden, right? And start small like you were saying. Look at the seasons, understand your soil, understand your climate. Now, a lot of times people will go to the big box stores and think these are the right plants to bring home. We've done it, Nancy and I've done it. - Oh yeah. - We've even done interviews with the other side and going oopsie. So we've learned in a really hard way. So I want to talk about the importance of supporting native plant nurseries. - Absolutely. - Like bookstores, okay. - Yeah, thank you. You know, if we don't support the people that are dedicating our lives to growing native plants and supporting our ecosystems, you know, if we don't support them, they vanish. It's really hard work and the margins are really thin. So, you know, when you go to a farmer's market and you decide, you know, I really want to eat organic and I really want to support, you know, heirloom varieties, you're willing to pay more, right? So be willing to go to native nurseries or doing it right that are growing pesticide-free, that are growing the native plants that belong in the region, that are often growing from seed, which is the hardest possible thing to do with woody plants, trees and shrubs and vines, really tough work. But they're promoting genetic diversity that way. Be prepared to pay more for those plants 'cause they cost more to grow and support that effort or else we lose those resources. So the big box stores don't have the greatest practices in terms of how they deal with their suppliers. And you really don't know what you're getting when you go to a big box store, how it's been grown, where it's been grown, did it come from across the country or is it local? Is the pot that you're picking up filled with a pest or disease that is now being introduced into the region where you are? So buying local from local nurseries is best practice in my view. - And also when you plant native plants, I mean, 'cause I remember this whole thing when native plants aren't, there was the ornamental craze that I think ruined a lot of things on top of a big egg, right? So the ornamental stuff, yes, it's pretty, you know, but we could be planting the natives. And honestly, when you're, like, I'm sorry, but when you sleep in a park and you're surrounded by mother nature as intended, that's integrity and left to be who she is, you have all the native plants around you and all the native birds come out and all the beautiful creatures that this is their home, there is something magical about it. And you feel more like you belong when you do that, right? - And, you know, different people have a different aesthetic, right? So I like a very naturalistic aesthetic. Some people like a more formal aesthetic and you can plant natives in both fashions. It doesn't have to be one or the other and there's so many gorgeous native plants. But I suggest to listeners that you find a beauty, not only in how a plant looks, but what a plant does. And then you'll never forget that. So, you know, a beautiful goldenrod is never more beautiful than when it's got to be or a butterfly or some other pollen or pollen on it. So we need to find that beauty. And again, we can do it in a more formal fashion or landscape or a looser fashion, depending on your aesthetic. And, you know, sometimes homeowners associations can be a little bit problematic too. Now, what about, yeah, then that's, you can be the person that educates them, everybody in their homeowners association, get on the board and educate. (laughs) - Yeah. - We have political systems for that reason. When you look at spring and especially in your area, I know that there's like, you get like all of a sudden, the snow is melting off and everything. Is there anything we should know about that? Because I know, you know, it's springtime. Things start to come out. And then you start wondering about all these wiggly things and oh, should we trim the pond back, you know, that kind of thing. - Well, early spring in many parts of the country is a crucial time because pollinators, a lot of pollinators are starting to wake up and not every pollinator says, "Oh, it's March 1st, I'm up and about." You know, they come out gradually and they have different lifespans. But in the spring, you know, there are, for example, native bumblebees that are some of our earliest ones to emerge and the mated queens, if they've survived the winter, if you've provided enough fall blooming native plants for them to go into winter well fed, you've given them a habitat. Well, those overwintering queens, they're gonna be hungry. They're gonna be looking for forage resources, nectar and pollen. And, you know, they may have already mated in fall and they're looking for a place to raise their brood. So thinking about some of these early flowering plants and my neck of the woods, this can include things like red maples and pussy willows, depends on the part of the country that you're in. But having a lot of those early bloomers, really important. And we don't often think of trees and shrubs as being pollinator plants, but at least in the Northeast, they're some of our earliest emerging pollinator plants. And then we have spring of femurals, which you guys have probably seen. I'm sure you've been to the Smoky Mountains, which is just-- - Not yet, we're getting there. - Not yet, oh, you got a little smokies. - It's on our list this year, it's coming. - Perfect. So that's just a magical place to go to see spring of femurals, native plants that emerge in woodland settings before the trees leaf out, and are some of the earliest resources for pollinators, early pollinators in the spring. Things like trout lilies and Dutchman's breeches and all these wonderful plants. So get to know the plants of your area, your region, and one great way to do that is to join your local native plant organization. That's just an inexpensive way to learn a lot. A lot of these organizations throughout the country have websites just loaded with information about native plants, where to buy them, tips, et cetera. And then there's some wonderful resources like the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center's database on native plants. You can do a search by your state and take a look and see what's native. You can do a filtered search, if you're looking for, say, spring bloomers or says fall or trees versus perennials, et cetera. And there are other really good resources for plant lists. I've provided some regional lists on my website, couldn't get everything in the book, so there's a lot more information on my website. But it's a pleasure learning this stuff. - It's fun. - Yeah, it's really fun. I think one of the biggest problems is when you go into a nursery, whether it be a small one or a box store one, the native plant section seems to be way far away in the little corner at the back with plants that look like they're barely surviving. And you know what I'm talking about, right? - I've seen those nurseries. - Yeah, and then when they do bloom, the flowers are so tiny. - Yeah, it depends on where you are. - That they're just not as impressive as, you know, let's go look at the, you know, camellias and they don't belong where you are. - That's why I like your book so much is that you prove that native plants are pretty beautiful. - Yeah, but that's the one thing that I've noticed is that it's not native plants first. They're in the back corner and they don't look that healthy and they look really tiny in the blooming that like you want the big flower, the tiny flower, there's that. And then there's also the convenience of the lawn, which I think it's funny because every of all this, you know, get rid of all this, put in a lawn and then they don't want to mow the lawn and they get really upset about having to mow the lawn all the time, you didn't have to put that all it. - It's amazing, you know. - And the other thing is the, okay, you know, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Let me just spray everything and kill everything all at one time without sinking. I mean, the idea of spraying poison, which is exactly what we are doing. It's poisonous for us and for all kinds of creatures and we just go, oh, and what gets me is you can actually buy poison and spray it. - Yeah, it's actually easier for a homeowner to buy pesticides and it is for a licensed pesticide applicator. But let me make a comment about native nurseries. So I suggest you do a couple things. One is find your local native nurseries that focus on natives. So that's number one, 'cause they know what they're doing. Number two, go to the nurseries that maybe don't do such a great job and encourage them to get more natives and grow 'em better. And you can be a bit clever with this. If you belong to an environmental organization, for example, like I belong to the native plant center here in New York, well, we've partnered with a local nursery, I think we're into our 10th year now, where every fall we do a big native plant festival and we bring in all the volunteers and they bring in native plants that they never bought before. And we increase their sales, we double their sales that weekend and they love us. So being creative, there are a lot of local organizations that do native plant sales in the spring and the fall in various parts of the country. Support those, Audubon societies are striving to do a lot of this, but you gotta get the word out. And if a nursery doesn't have natives, ask them, why not? - Yeah, exactly, and botanical gardens too, a lot of them like San Diego Botanical Garden, been there, they have their ornamentals and things because a lot grows in that environment, but they also have this huge section dedicated to zeroscape landscaping, zeroscape conserving water and California native plants, that's their big thing. And so that's important. I mean, it's like, I sometimes look at botanical gardens as zoos in a weird way, you know what I mean? It's like, you know, I think they're very, very important to understanding and it's cool when you can see plants from another country, but I really think that there's that side that I've seen botanical gardens slowly like we were just in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And their main purpose is to teach locals that number one, you can have plants in the desert and you can do it in the right way and with natives. And it was amazing what we saw. I mean, it was absolutely beautiful. The native plants are beautiful and isn't it like once we plant them? And I wanna go, wait, I wanna go back to Nancy Tom, but you know, the ugly native plant in the corner because some native plants, if they're in their dormancy stage, like an ocotillo in the desert here in the Southwest, where we are right now, an ocotillo, when it's not in its green and blooming stage, it looks like a stick and you're gonna think it's dead, but it's not. And so when you go to buy one, you'll go, oh, it's dead, this is a bad nursery. So that's another factor is native plants have different cycles and you talk about that extensively and you talk about cycles. So that's something to understand too, that not always blooming and pretty when you go to the nursery because it's just the wrong season for that. - Yeah, we've had such a focus on annuals, things have to look great for month after month after month. And a lot of those plants are so overbred that they really provide almost nothing for nature. So I'm very suspicious of plants that have been bred to be constant bloomers. And our eye, obviously, is often attracted to the big, showy things, but let's look a little deeper. Like hydrangeas are very big in this part of the country, not so much who are where you guys are from, although lots of people live in desert areas or try to grow hydrangeas, which is nothing short of insane. (laughs) But the big pom pom hydrangeas that have, the big showy flowers have very, very few fertile flowers. Those showy flowers are infertile. So I like to suggest to clients, listen, if you like that, we'll get you one of those, but let's get some of our native hydrangeas in that are less showy, but have many more fertile flowers with vector and pollen for insects. So it's perspective, it's context. It's understanding the function that this plant is supposed to actually provide, not just how it looks to your eyeball that moment. - It's cool. You talk about hydrangeas, I have to say, one of the coolest experiences we had on the tour in 2019 was Fluorescent Fossil Beds National Monument in Colorado. So everybody flocks in Colorado Springs area to the Garden of the Gods. And they literally do to the point that you want to run. There's so many people, but you go east, I mean, excuse me, west a little bit, that's why we go in circles. This Fluorescent Fossil Beds is this crazy park of Tetra, they have petrified redwoods in Colorado. And it's amazing. You can't even believe it until you're there, but then you go and see the fossil collection, the visitor center and they have fossilized hydrangeas. - Oh, that's so cool. - How crazy is that? Because I never thought of hydrangeas even being native. So bad. - Yeah, we do have some native. - I was like, "Holy cow, hydrangeas were there millions of years ago?" - Sure, sure, before. - Seriously. - Yeah. - Think about that. I mean, millions, it wasn't two million years ago, they were here. - Well, dude. - You know, there are so many plants to choose from no matter where you live that are native and that are beautiful, that really, you know, thinking that ornamental, quote unquote ornamental. I don't even know what that really means. What does that mean? To me, all plants have an ornamental aspect, but we've gotten ourselves into trouble by focusing on non-natives. And you can see that and you do, I'm sure, across the country with the proliferation of invasive plants that come from other continents, mostly Asia, unfortunately, some from Europe, that have overtaken our native habitats and are, you know, where I live, you go up a parkway and you just see invasive vine smothering the entire woodland. I mean, they're killing everything. So we have to pay a little bit more attention to what we plant and to anticipate what it might do if it's too aggressive. A lot of the plants that we brought in to the country in the late 1800s and early 1900s for ornamental gardens are now some of our biggest garden thugs. And they do, an invasive plant is defined to either do harm to the environment or to human health or to agriculture. And we see this constantly. So take a look at your state's invasive species list and make sure, one, you don't buy any of these plants if they're still found for sale. Unfortunately, sometimes they are. And look at the state's near you and don't use the plants that are invasive on the list either. And if you have some of these invasive plants, start removing them and replacing them with, excuse me, with native alternatives that support our ecosystems. That's super important. And the lawn, I can't overstate how important it is to start replacing some lawn with more wildlife supportive native plantings. It's so critical. As development just keeps going, going, going, our own home landscape to have never been more important anytime. And I see with clients, we plant and boom, the birds, the butterflies, the bees, the mammals appear. And we really can make a difference. - I really can. And lastly on the native plant part where when you purchase them, they will take time to get familiar with your surroundings. It's gonna take a couple years, right? Depending on the plant. - Not necessarily. It depends on the plant species. So with perennial plants, I often use plant plugs, very small, deep-rooted plants. Kind of looks like you're going to the garden center to get a trade annuals. Kind of looks like that with deeper roots. And it's a very inexpensive way to buy plants. And I have been stunned at planting plugs in, say, May. And then by fall, they're full size in some cases. So it really depends on the species that you are planting. But it's extraordinary. And it's all about planting the right plant in the right place too, right? So if you know your soil conditions, you understand your region and you plant the right plant in the right place. You don't put sun lovers in shade. You don't put plants that like a fast drainage and drowdy soil in a wet condition. By following those basic principles of gardening, you put the right plant in the right place. You're gonna have much better success. And don't be afraid with trees and shrubs to buy small. - Yeah. - You don't want containerized plants typically grow much, much faster than a large specimen that's been bald and burr-lapped where, you know, 80% or more of the root system has been dug up. So don't be afraid of small and have a little patience. I know we're not very patient society, but-- - Right, that's a problem. Yeah, well, gardening will create patience. - Yes. - And it's so cool to go out. That's a Nancy Knight, right? Nancy, the one thing we wanna, we miss, you know, when we get to a place like right now, we're in Yuma for a little bit and we'll go walk the wetlands and see the gardens or the hotel that we're at, the Caron Automotive will tell. People stay here just because there's a garden. You can just sip at the birds. And it's amazing how many species, how many species do you think are in the palm trees, Nancy? - Oh gosh, there's so many. Like, the birds that go up into the palm trees that you wouldn't think even fit. - I know. And they're all living next to each other and they're in little colonies. And it's like, we sit there, we have our wine time with the birds under the palms. And we're like, well, you have to have wine time. And, you know, and we're like, oh my gosh, check this out. And here it is, and it's all native plants, you know? And it's like, okay, this is cool. So our time is like going, we go walk the wetlands here, which is all a big restoration project to 49 agencies coming together to restore the wetlands of the lower Colorado River. - Wow. - And they're really doing it, taking the invasives out. We've been watching this go for 20 years, we've been watching this process seriously from one hummingbird bush, which was like a little, what do you call it, the, oh, oh, humming, it's the Cape hummingbird, you know, the little red dot, the little tubular one. It's orange tubular hummingbird style plant. Anyway, from-- - Hummingbirds love red tubular flowers, yeah. - Yeah, there's one native plant. They have a wetlands, a garden here. It's all for hummingbirds and butterflies. It's all native plants. And we went and did a whole walk around with the guys who maintain it. And they say that people come to the garden and they go, well, where's the flowers? And they're standing right next to like the, the fairy dust or flowers and things like that. People don't realize that that's part of the whole thing. But it's really magical 'cause we go every day and something new happens and it's the same as having your own garden in the backyard. When you plant something, you will see something happen every day, everything changes. And plant diversity translates into wildlife diversity. - Yes. - So the more, you know, diversity of native plants that you have, the more creatures that are coming. And, you know, I encourage folks to start making a list of what they're seeing. And if you get a picture of it, use iNaturalist or another app like that to identify it. Get your kids engaged. Kids wanna be on these, you know, on the phones constantly. We'll get them iNaturalist so they can start identifying what they're seeing. It's a wonderful resource. - Citizen science. - Yeah, exactly. So, you know, really that whole thing about diversity, that is our greatest tool in the face of climate change. And we depend on the ecosystem services that a healthy environment provides. And if we don't improve environmental health, we miss that opportunity at our own risk. - And be nice to the worms and the snakes. They're part of it, spiders too. They're all part of it. They're all part of it. Thank you so much, Kim. - Thank you. - Beautiful, beautiful book. Nancy's holding on to it. We're like, I know, I know. I think it's gonna be part of our education as we travel. - Well, thank you so much for that. - No, really, it's beautiful, but it really gives you tips on getting started and you can start small. It's not like an overnight like, "Oh my God, I have to redo my entire garden." You can get started, start small, but and get your kids involved, schools. We've seen things of people making these changes across the country. And it is so cool to see kids light up with things. You know, when they see a bug or a caterpillar eating, they're like, "Ooh, look at that, that's so cool." And you know things are happening and it can happen right in your backyard. So check it out, everyone. Go to ecobeneficial.com. Again, the book is by Kim Ironman, it's E-I-E-R-M-A-N. And I'm just trying to prove I can spell it. - Yeah, exactly correct. - Okay, good. Everybody, the book name is the pollinator victory garden. Win the war on pollinator decline with ecological gardening. Again, ecobeneficial.com, go to Amazon or those places and go to your local bookstore and say, "I want the book." And go to your botanical garden because they have gift shops too and say, "I want the book." Just sayin' all of those places, even nurseries, right? Okay, they have books. So just say, "I want the book." So go there and we also wanna give a shout out and thank you to our sponsor for today's show, which is Fine Art Nature photographer, Margot Carrera. She has, go check out her work. She loves nature and everything that we're talking about today. It is CarreraFineArtGallery.com, beautiful, beautiful work and gifts, I mean scarves with sunflowers and all kinds of good things. She talks about wrapping yourself in nature. She understands the healing powers of nature and that's what she's all about. And she has assigned us to our project to document gardens across America as we travel, not just parks. And we've even learned that cemeteries are gardens. It's amazing, rest stop areas, some places I wanna give a shout out to Missouri and Kansas for having pollinator gardens in their rest areas. So I think it's important that we use every space in the right way and give nature its land back. Just gonna say it that way. So thank you, Margot, for sending us on the assignment. It's fun, we have so many more places to put on the map. It's pretty crazy. It's almost like covering all the parks that we've been to. So check it out on nationalparktraveling.com if you wanna follow our map or just go to loveyourparkstour.com. Of course, keep up with us at bigblendradio.com and can we love to play music for our guests and for our listeners that go with the topic in today's song is Pink Fairy Duster and Humming Bird Moths. - Fabulous, thanks so much. - Thank you. - Thank you so much. Here it is everyone, it's from Michael and Spider and it's off of their album, Perfume of Creosote. Thanks so much, Kim. - Thank you. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
