(upbeat music) ♪ Charged ♪ ♪ Charged ♪ ♪ Well, hold me through ♪ ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ ♪ Comin' old sweet song ♪ ♪ These Georges on my mind ♪ ♪ I'm talkin' 'bout ♪ ♪ Charged ♪ ♪ Charged ♪ - Welcome everybody, you know, every fourth Sunday, Joey Stuckey is here on the show. Joey is an official music ambassador for Macon, Georgia, which is the Southern rock capital of the world. He's an award-winning blind guitarist, songwriter, singer, composer, producer, radio and TV personality. He is a personality, a big one, like he is always so much fun. He is a music columnist and an educator, yep, he's always teaching his stuff, and a sound engineer. And we're very excited 'cause today, normally we talk about holidays and all of that, but today we get to talk about his brand new EP that is coming out June 28th, so only in a few days. So check out the show notes because I have a link in there that you can go to see where to get it and pre-order it and all that good stuff. It's gonna be everywhere on streaming platforms and limited edition numbers of CDs. But you can go to joeysteckey.com. That's an E-Y at that Stucky 'cause, you know, it's Stucky. E-W-E-Gooie Stucky. (laughing) I don't know why I-- - I'm well-deserved. - It's E-W-E-Gooie. Well, that's 'cause I always think about Stucky's now with chocolate and stuff that, you know, the side of the road, you know? - I mean, I think-- - What's on top-offs? - I've been called worse things than E-W-E-Gooie. (laughing) - Well, you know, it's like, it's pudding. You and I love England. Nancy, you and I always talk about England, and it's like, you know, sticky toffee pudding, you know? - Absolutely, that's some good stuff. - Yeah, it is. Oh, listen, I was listening to the EP, and Nancy and I both love it. And we love the fact that it's an acoustic CD, and everyone is called Joey Stucky Live from Macon, which is where his recording studio is. And this is an in-studio recording, but I think this is very interesting 'cause I just did another recording with musician, James Bifield. His name is Blind Lemon Pledge, the music name, right? And he's done blues for years, roots music, Americana, really gets southern stuff, and he's out of the Bay Area. And, you know, he's been on our show for, I don't know, donkeys years. And God, did I just say donkeys years 'cause we're taking care of the donkey dog? - Yeah, yeah, I did. But we were talking about it, and he got to this point, he just went, that's it. I'm done with everything being any extra instrumentation, it's stripped down. And he did what, he has a bass player in a drummer, but you really stripped it down. And I feel like when we were talking about this, and I want to ask you about this, and you've got some great Georgia music on there, by the way. It's stripped down, and I think at this day and age with AI and what's happening in the arts world, and I mean all arts, right? That we're kind of going to start wanting to get to, let's get to the roots of things. Do you feel that as a musician? Is that lean anywhere towards why you decided to just strip it down and be you in a guitar? - Well, I mean, I definitely have some concerns about AI. There's certainly some laudable things that it can do. And the thing that I think about is being senses and abilities for people that are disabled. So if AI can be my eyes or be somebody else's hands or something like that, that I think is a wonderful way to use technology. But I'm not for computers creating music, and I'm not for artificial intelligence creating music. I think as a tool, they certainly have a space. I mean, if you look at the Beatles documentary, "Get Back," they use AI in there to help clean up some of the vocals. What they did was actually train the AI to recognize John Lennon's voice and to be able to strip his voice away from other sounds. So they were able to really clean up some of the conversations, to clean up some of the music. And last year in 2023, when they beatles released a new song and it had, obviously it had John Lennon's voice on there, they had tried to use that before back in the 90s, but they couldn't separate John Lennon's voice from the piano track. Because he just had a very primitive recording of him playing piano and singing. But with the AI technology that developed for the "Get Back" documentary, they were able to do that. So that's all, that's all to the good. And that was able to let us have a new Beatles song. So there are some wonderful things, but as far as AI is making music for big corporations instead of artists, 100% against that, it didn't really fall into why I did decide to do it, so to strip down the AI wasn't really part of the calculation. But it's certainly, I think, one of the exciting things about the record is how human it is. Because it was just me and a guitar. And what we'll do, and we'll put this in the show notes, but there's a little new 11 minute documentary that we came up with in mid-January of 'Twentially 4' about me and my music. And I believe we released it in March, if I remember correctly. - Yep, I remember that, sorry. - Yeah, yeah, and so what I did was, as, and for those people who are in the film, you know what B-roll is, but basically, what I did to interspersed amongst the interviews and the other footage of me walking around and playing with different band bands and stuff like that. We had, I sat down for 45 minutes, played eight songs, and just in the studio, just me and the guitar, and we did that, videoed it, and did it, so we'd have songs to cut to in the documentary. And, you know, I played like, kind of what some of the most popular songs that I do, both originals and covers. And I did eight of them, and then people were so impacted by the music that we did for the documentary. The idea was kind of floated, well, why don't we take those songs and make it an EP and release it. And so I, you know, because everybody was saying, you know, what you do with just you and a guitar is so powerful, you know, we should, people should hear that outside the live show. So that was the real reason that we decided to do it. And it's not really, you know, there's no real studio magic. I mean, when you listen to the record, especially with headphones. - Mm-hmm, that's how I get it. - Yeah, you can hear me like leaning into the microphone in the back of the microphone. - It's real. - Yeah, and I'm just working the mic like I would in the live show. And it's just me in the room with the acoustic guitars. So I chose to pick for the eight tracks that we did and decided they were, you know, up to my standards and I liked them. And three of them recovers and three of them are originals. And so that was it. So that was the real reason. But, you know, I haven't really released new music since 2020. Partly due to COVID. And, you know, the live music industry has certainly been impacted by that. And it is still different, more challenging than navigating it used to be pre-COVID. So, but yeah, I mean, I just decided it was time to release something new. - Mm-hmm. - You know, I had been working on a full album, but I've been so busy working as a producer for other artists that I just hadn't had time to finish the full album that I sort of started putting together back in 2020. And so this just happened. This, this album really just sort of fell into my lap in the sense that everybody's like, people are really enjoying the documentary, people are really enjoying. We had like, I can't remember the number 60,000 views on Facebook of the documentary, which is impressive considering that it's 11 minutes long and people have no attention span. And we had about, I think between 1,500 and 2,000 views on YouTube, and we had lots of people commenting and saying how much they enjoyed it and how much the music sounded good and how much they liked just the guitar and vocal. And so it just really kind of came about- - It's intimate. - By accident, right? - It's intimate. It's intimate. Just listening to it, I was like, oh, cool. 'Cause I remember you posting whipping posts and we've talked about that on the shows before, and I love that version. You do have it, it's a little jazzy, but at the same time, it's like, your way of doing it and it's stellar and it sounds so good. It's like, you've got this jazz and soul at the same time throughout the whole EP, honestly, that's a lot of that to me. And at the same time, we have guitar work, like, I was thinking about that today, you know, Richie Havens is one of my favorite performers, favorite guitarist, favorite, favorite. 'Cause he had, he used his guitar, like, he used his guitar in a way that I think it's overlooked a lot and very rhythmic. And you have that too. You've got a lot of rhythm in your playing and I don't know how you do it, but you do, you're leading us here, there and everywhere, but still staying on it, right? And Richie Havens had that tenacity and he had that dynamic, but he could do a lot of rhythm work. Fast, jazzy, choppy, then slow down. You know, does that make sense? Like with, I mean, I loved it, I loved his thumb would come over, his frets, you know? - Yeah, yeah. - Big thumb. And his big thumb matched his toes too. Sorry. (laughs) - Well, you know, it's interesting because, I mean, the thing about being on your own and just you is that you don't have to worry about anybody else following. And live, you know, one of the things that I prize myself on is improvisation and spontaneity. But you've got, you know, in my case, you have at least two other people that have to follow where you go. And when I play with my trio. And so you still have to consider those people and you have to not go so far out on a limb that they don't know where they're going and they can't follow you. So it restricts you a little bit in what you can do. And when it's just me, it's a lot of fun because there's, you know, just playing whatever my imagination comes with, up with at the moment. And I don't have to worry about somebody else keeping up or, you know, saying, and Dilly, and so, you know, like in Whitman Post, you'll hear me playing a bass line along with the chords, there's some of that in some other places, there's a lot of interesting, you know, chords that maybe I wouldn't be able to play quite as with the improvisational skills that I have. I wouldn't be able to play with the trio because I'd have to know, oh, he's going to change this and alter this chord. So that's kind of, you know, it's a lot of fun. The only thing the records missing from the live experience is some of the storytelling and jokes that I put in. So you'll still have to come see the live show for that. - Yeah, you'll see the live show and then watch the documentary too. But yeah, you know what, that whole thing is like, but that's what jazz is, right? Jazz is about being able to take you on a trip, right? - Sure. - You don't quite know where you're going and you have to trust, you have a trust factor with the band, right, in the musicians performing. - And that's right, and the guys in my trio are not jazz players and they're very talented, very gifted, or I wouldn't work with them. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - They're also good people, but my background is a lot more jazz than their background. The only thing about, I guess, the only sort of regret about not having a trio of drums and bass backing up, I can't play a lot of lead guitar stuff 'cause I'm known for my lead guitar work and I can't really do that what it's just me. I do a little bit. - But you're guitar and soul chemistry, and that's what balances it out. - Yeah, exactly, exactly. I do a little, I do a few risks and a few little, like in Georgia on my mind, which I'm really known for doing, I'm singing something and I play a really, really fast, I'm singing kind of softly, and you can hear that I'm leaning into the microphone and I play this really fast lick, kind of underneath what I'm singing. So there's a couple of places where you can tell that I'm a lead guitar player and can do some interesting things, but there's no one else holding the fork down, so I can't just solo with nothing underneath it. You gotta have this sport. - Right. - So that's, I mean, that's the only regret, but I mean, I love, I've just had so many people respond to just the live show and just me and the Cus guitar in such a powerful way that it seemed like it was the right time to do it. - Well, and there's something too, like I used to do a lot of live shows, just me and the guitar and it really, I had to learn to just trust myself, because I'm not a guitarist, but I learned certain things. I was like, oh, I can do this and sing. And, but I had to really school myself and it is a trust form to be able to improvise and do that free form because that's the beauty of it. And when you step outside the norm, that's the joy. And especially with covers, like you've got Melissa, George on my mind whipping posts as you covers on there. And it's like, okay, Melissa, that's a hell of a guitar song too. - Melissa. - A lot of chords. Melissa is crazy, all the changes. There's all kinds of, dude. I was like, you put Melissa on there and I listened. I'm like, yeah, that's pretty damn cool, man, because it is, they did so many like changes in there, but subtle and like you, and when you know that song, you know those changes. You know what I mean? It's like-- - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, you got, you got cahonies, dude. And you worked it out and you made it work. So it's good. - Well, it's true, whatever you do. - The two things I'd say to that would be, one of the things I love about that song is it uses a lot of a trick, or I guess I'll say it's a technique that I use a lot in my own compositions, which is using common tones. So one of the things that happens on that song with the exception of one chord in the bridge, the E string is constantly open and ring it on the topic. And so it's kind of fun when you play it with the first chord of the song, which is the E chord, it's the root of the chord. The next chord, which is an F-sharp minor seven, it becomes, it's still the E, still playing there, and it becomes the seventh of the song. And then when you move it to the G-sharp minor, it becomes the add sixth. And when you move to different chords, when it's B, it's the four, or technically, I guess it would actually be the eleven because it's past the octave. Anyway, the point is that E stays ringing through the whole song except for one D chord in the bridge. And that's called a common tone when you keep a chord, a note like that ringing the whole time, and it just changes function depending on what chords it's being incorporated to. And what's so beautiful about that is that that allows you to play some very interesting altered chord forms without jarring your ear because your ear is still grounded on that common tone, that note. So I really like that, I really like that a lot. And the second thing I'd say is it does take some courage to play somebody else's song, because especially when the song's a hit or something iconic. - Like Free Bird. - Yeah, exactly, because-- - But Melissa and whipping posts are, yeah, you gotta get it, you gotta get it. - You gotta get it right. And with Melissa, I didn't take a whole lot of liberties. There's a couple little minor things. Like the way I ended is very different than how my brother's ended. I have a little ending that I do that's different. And I think that's the biggest, I think that's the biggest sort of change. There's a couple little vocal things that are a little slightly different. But your choices are really, you either have to totally make it your own or you have to make it sound like exactly like the record that it comes from. And I don't like the latter choice. So I like to make everything my own. - No, you did. - If I'm wondering where the alma brothers play it, I'd put the record on it, I'll see them live. - Yeah, no, no, no, because it was your version. And when you listen to it, it's like, oh, because you keep us interested, right? Because when you love certain songs and you love certain bands, like the Almond Brothers, I mean. And that, even whipping post has that interesting thing of how they always built off of what they started. Like they would make good bakers, they built off of something, you know? Like keep adding and keep adding and we're gonna keep going. And then we're gonna do like, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You can add a lot of stuff on top. - They always build and build and build. And it's like, but they just kind of like, it's interesting because in other music, they just, it's so fast, right? You're gonna build you and like, ah. And this, they just kind of did this progressive, not prog rock, progressive kind of, we're going, we're going. It's like kind of like on being on horseback, right? - Yeah, yeah. - You're gonna start walking your horse and then you're not gonna go into a whole gallop from, yeah, you slowly start and then all of a sudden like, oh hell, yes, we got a free field, like nothing on it. Let's go, you know? And then you're gonna simmer down. And so they really did it with that little jazzy part that kept you always like, okay, you're progressing, but it keeps you aware and focused. But like, yeah, always interesting. And that's what you did with your own style of theirs. That's because you kept, I think by keeping that jazz element, you keep it so interesting and then the soulful part of singing and just keeping it very real, which I really appreciate. That's why I was going with the AI. The AI makes everything so pure and crisp and clean and pretty. And like I'm looking, I mean, I know you're a blind musician. So you're not seeing all the images that musicians are now doing. Here's my headshot. I have a friend who's a musician and she's like, well, I can't afford a headshot. So I did it as AI and I'm like, okay, that bad, but you can tell it's not authentic anymore. So it's not bad. It looks good. I'm like, I need to be touched up like that. Hell yes. (laughing) Yeah, I'm like, every time we're on Zoom, I'm like, damn. You know, there's some benefits to being blind, Joey. I'm just saying. - Oh, I know. - It's just, oh, I think in music, I mean, I was doing some video work the other day and they're like, here, create this re AI and I'm like, music to go for it. So I played around with it and I was like, yeah, it's elevator music, but there's one thing missing, soul. And I don't care what you're doing. Yes, you can have that background music and it's gonna make a video that YouTube's happy with and everyone's happy with and legally fine. But we're now actually expanding away from what music needs to have, which is the musicians create it and they have soul, right? And so there's this, this is why I'm so excited about your EP because I think we're going, I think it's gonna spiral. I think it's gonna do a twirly whirly just now where everybody's using AI and then it's like, we all realize that we're eating really bad sugar. Yeah. Right. It's like junk food, yeah. Yeah. And we're gonna spiral around and have mocktails later. You know, that's what's gonna happen but we need to actually go back to our roots. And so I think this AI thing, like you're saying, there's so many positives. There's a huge amount of positives. And if we could focus on that instead of this stuff, I'm trying to watch my language, you know, me. Well, I mean, again, I mean, I'm humanist, you know, I believe that AI should stay in his lane. I don't think it should be taking, you know, the creative aspect of ways for anybody. If you want to use it as a tool, that's fine. But, you know, I mean, where does it stop? I mean, I just, I'm all for Isaac Asimov's through all the robotics, you know, I don't want to be murdered by a machine in my sleep. I don't know. It's, I mean, I granted it's unlikely but it's something that is, it's reasonable to think about that stuff. You know, Stephen Hawking, a very brilliant man, had a real fear, I guess would be the right word of AI and started a think tank about, you know, the moral and ethical and scientific questions, you know, regarding AI. And I think there are a lot of moral and ethical questions that need to be see sorted. I mean, you know, one of the criticisms is that some of the major companies, some of the major streaming companies are going to use AI to create music that sounds like famous artists and then they don't have to pay those artists, they can retain all the money from the stream. - Exactly, that's what I was talking about. - That's bad. - Definitely. - And, you know, and so, I mean, that's, that's, that's just not good. And part of it, the other thing is, by and large, fans of music take pride in supporting the bands and artists that they love. - Yes, there's a connection. - They take pride. - Yeah, they take pride in buying that T-shirt and buying that-- - The meeting greets. - Yeah, but they want to go to the merch table, mostly to meet and support. - Right, and so, you know, they, they like to think, oh, I'm supporting the band that I like so they can make more of the music that I like. So when you have an AI who's not a real artist, I remember a couple of years ago, there was that fake artist scandal where one of the big streaming companies was basically hiring session musicians to come in and make music that sounded like some of the famous bands. And again, they were trying to keep the revenue from, from that and not pay artists. And, you know, a lot of people were very upset about that for a lot of reasons, but one of the reasons was that they were not supporting real artists. They were the, the, the, the money, you know, they were not able to give their money and their time to real artists out there. These were fake, well, they called the fake artist scandal. So there's a lot of stuff like that, you know, that goes on and, you know, interestingly, I've been doing keynote addresses for a long time all over the world and I do a lot of speaking engagements. And my big talk for the past year, really right when, or a little bit over that, really right when the AI was really starting to come out into the forefront and it had nothing to do with AI. It was, that was not the reason I was doing the talk, but it, it coincided sort of dovetails. But one of the things I talk about in my talks these days as a, this talk is called Sound Blindness, a Return to Critical Listing. And one of the things that, one of the problems that they're, that we're having in the music industry is people are making musical decisions with the wrong sensory organ. So what I mean by that is if music is consumed by your ear, and if you're making decisions based on some graph on a screen, you're making decisions with your eye and the eye is not how we consume music. Now, music video, music fashion, absolutely, but we're talking about the actual sound recording. So your eye, it's like, it's like me saying, I want to bake a pie and judge its quality based on how it sounds. That's crazy. You, you, you, you taste a pie, you smell a pie, you don't listen to a pie. So it's the same thing with your eyes. You don't, you know, so I talk about human truth and mathematical truth. And I won't go way down the rabbit hole, but it's, it really dovetails with AI where we're talking about soul and character and vibe versus mathematical perfection. - Well, okay, humans add the texture. - Yeah. - That's it. If you're gonna talk about pie, I'm gonna taste the crust, I want the crunch on the crust and I want the soft on the inside of the crust, right? I want, I want that crust to have crunch and softness, right? And then I want, like, not just pure nothing, like, like, soup inside, I want like texture, right? In the pie, right? - Yeah. - But I want to, I want to say this because I can't stand, I have to say this. Don't you think Millie Vanilly, we're ahead of their time? - Yeah. - 'Cause they knew about AI, they would have made it. - Yeah, I mean, you know. - Skated through, okay. - That was basically the same thing, is that fake artist thing. - But that was still human, you know, and they were good. - Oh, very much. - Damn, you know, I actually know of, there is an individual that created an entire AI resume, AI human persona created and did it over a number, a number of years, enough to be believable and check this, check that. So when they entered an artistic competitive zone for like a competition jury thing, they passed and no one knew they were AI. - Wow. - How about that? - That's crazy. - That is nuts, that's where we're at. So that's why I go back-- - And it's interesting to see now that you're seeing people say in the official rules of contest, AI's are prohibited and stuff like that. - Right, and now you're seeing like AI like label this, if this is an AI generated on photosites and stuff like that, stock agencies, you have to say this is AI generated. And not all of it is bad, sometimes it has that feel, but you can tell, it's weird Joey, like you can tell, if you listen, you can tell. Yes, you can tell autotuning and stuff, right? And if it's a disco song, who cares, right? That doesn't matter, because it's that kind of sound, that kind of thing, but when you're doing acoustic and that's why I say what is so important about this EP, I think people are going to do a spin around and go, "God, I just want someone to pick up a guitar and sing to be human." And that was my point about this. And you've got some originals, which I've heard before. Now, hate you, this is, I'm like Joey said this, Joey is like most Mr. Friendly, he wants, you know, you are, you are so, there's like, you know, and you do call the truth on stuff too. So let me just say, he's a very kind human being, human, I'm making sure everyone knows, right? But everyone knows you on that. But you're going to call stuff out if it's, you know, needs to be called out. - Well, that song was a, that was an early composition in the early '90s. And it was on my very first album, but it's one of the songs that the band loved to play, I loved to play, and it's a favorite among fans. And it is a real dichotomy because I am very upbeat and positive. I am, you know, I love everybody, you know, and all that kind of stuff. But there were, I was dumped by a girl because she decided that she didn't want to be with a blind person. And it ticked me off. (laughing) And so it was really, I was very young and I just wasn't prepared for the pain of, aye, a breakup in general is painful, but then to know, why has I been with your friends and why haven't, you know, you know, I just don't want to, I don't want to spend my life take care of a blind person. And the thing is that was just a ridiculous statement because while I do have, I mean, I can't drive, for example, but I'm also not someone that requires, I mean, I'm very independent. I don't just sit around and go away. - If you go to a recording studio, you play with all those knobs, that's something. - Yeah, exactly, I do love being knobs. - I know well, and you cannot lie, but I mean, that's amazing. - But it was very painful. - Yeah, it was very painful. And so it was part of that. So my mom, I tell this story a lot lies, but I played that song from my mom. My mom said to me, son, you know, it's not good to hate me one because all it, the only person that gets hurt from hatred is you. And she's absolutely right. No question, no question. However, trying to sing, I don't like you very much at this particular moment in time, is very difficult and kind of loses the point. - Yeah, or you're going to have to swear, right? - Yeah. - Like it's either hate you or whatever you. - Yeah, yeah, exactly. - But that is that era, that age too, right? That young age. - I was full of angst. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when you're 19, 20 years old, you know. - I know it's so funny 'cause I've heard the song before and I'm like, dude, it's just so wild. This is Joey, you know? And then, I think you and I were talking about this the other day, Nancy and I were like, holy cow, we found this song and like, that's Joey? Holy, that was the song. That was the song. I think we were talking about that last month. I don't know if it was on the show or just Nancy, you and I like, you know, chatting around, but. - We must, yeah, I don't remember, but. - This was the one. Nancy and I were like, dude, that's Joey? Like, sweet Joey, you know, with a very, you know, twisted sense of humor, but like. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, it was the humor. - Yeah, but now truth is a Misty Mountain and now I've, I have a soft spot for this song because it is. It's like gross, like, it's kind of interesting 'cause you got still me sane and free, right? I like that too because it means like you can go through whatever and then you come out and it's like, yeah, I go in through it, but here I am crazy and free, you know? Like that's kind of, these three go together. Like, that could be its own little album of like, you know, if you didn't know all the backstories, you know? - Yeah, yeah. - It kind of goes together, doesn't it? - Yeah, I think so, and they, again, you know, I just, I mean, I have so many songs that I've written, so many songs, I mean, when we perform, sometimes we play three and four hours. I try not to do that anymore because I'm getting along with the tooth that I don't want to play that long. But, you know, you know, I have, we have a huge set that we can draw from lies and I, or that I can draw from as well. And I have tons of songs written that have never been recorded. I have a back catalog of songs to record that's a mile high, but these are some of the very ones that are very, very popular when I perform. So I just performed, again, remember, this was not intended to be a record at the time. It was just intended to be B-roll where we could cut to me playing the same on the documentary. And so I just said, well, I'll play the most popular songs, the ones that really get the reaction from the crowd, the one people really connect to. I'll play, you know, a few of those. And then that's what happened. But yeah, I think those songs all go together. The truth is a missing out in this is a real song about learning how to get out of a relationship. One of the things that I believe is sort of as a core foundational of my spirit and who I am and all that kind of stuff is that if I can go through a bad time and come out wiser and kinder, then my time has not been wasted. You know, that doesn't mean that I want, that doesn't mean that I want to go through bad times because I don't know. - No, no, but that's important. That's a really good thing to remember when you go through crap, right? - Yeah, you come out a little wiser, you come out a little kinder. I mean, I try to make the best of it. I really try to let everything I am, both the positive and the negative work in my favor and give me the life that I value. So, you know, I mean, the fact that I can't see is definitely a challenge for driving and other things like that. But then again, there's a wonderful line from Joan Osborne, who's I think a great artist. - We love her. - You know, we were both mutual fans. - Oh, yes. And she has a great line about Ray Charles. And it's a song called "Spider Web." It's off her first album. - Yeah, I love that song. - It's really about Ray Charles last night. - Yeah, that's it. I dreamed about, so the lyrics are, I dreamed about Ray Charles last night. He can see just fine, you know. I asked him for a lullaby. He said, "Honey, I don't sing no more." And so... - Spied away. - I think, yeah, I think that everything, you know, everything about you is something you've used to your advantage. The other way I think about life and about music and about spirit and about, you know, art is you're over time as things happen to you both good and bad. You've become more refined as a being. And so I think about, if you think about how sculptures are made, most of the time, sculptors will tell you they take a block of stone and they see what's inside that block of stone and they just carve away the excess and reveal what's in that block of stone. And I think that both good things and bad things carve us and reveal our true, like, inner, glorious speaking. So that's how I feel about it. - I love that. I love that. So like Carl Perkins said, like, I'm not gonna get the quote, right? But like, really, you have, you won't have the sound and the stream without the rocks, basically. - Yeah, that's right, yeah. - Right? - Yeah. - It's, I'm not saying it right, but it's one of my favorite things too. It's like, when you go through hell, like, you can, you know, whenever I go through any kind of hell I just put on music. And sometimes I have a glass of wine and give the world a few choice words, but music, music, and it's weird how we have songs and certain things. I was thinking about that last night, actually. I was listening to do some songs and going through things and I thought, isn't it weird how we, like, I actually wanna write a thing about this, about the power, I know we've done the power of music. You know, we've talked about that on the show with you before, but it's interesting how we have songs that we know. All right, I'm really happy I'm gonna play this and you already know, your body knows, I know this song, right? I'm gonna get happy about this. Your brain is already trained for that song. - Yeah, absolutely. - Good or bad, right? If you're going through hell, there are songs I know, it'll like, it's almost like you know this song, you know it well, for some reason, you're gonna put it on, you're feeling miserable, it's gonna make you even more in some way, but it makes you get through it quicker. Look, it's like a speed train, even though the song is in a speed train, but it's like, you know, all right, get it out, get it over with, get on with it, listen to this song, cry, yell, whatever you wanna do, move on, isn't that weird? Like this power of music of where your emotion lies, you have songs according to your emotions at times. People have that. - Yeah, yeah. - Is that, I mean, as a musician, do you think about that when you write, or because really people just take it, I mean, there's stuff that is really happy songs that I'm like, it's not happy for me because of this, you know, it has nothing to do with the musician at all, or the songwriter. So that's an interesting thing too. - Yeah, I mean, the cool thing is, I mean, basically I write what I lived. So whether it's happy or sad, I'm just writing snapshots of my life, or imaginings of how my life might have been or might could be. And there's something real cathartic about being able to hear someone else sing at least a part of your story. And so I think when we, one of the interesting things about the human condition is we tend to fall into this trap of believing that we're alone and that no one can truly understand what we've gone through. - And there is some truth to that. I mean, I can't completely understand your journey, but I can empathize because there are characteristics of everyone's journey that are the same. So when you hear someone go, oh my God, they're singing my story, they're singing my song. I had that same experience. That's a really powerful moment of connection. So there's a lot of therapeutic value there. And so, but the other thing that's really cool about art to your point is like, I don't really think about, I don't really think about how people are gonna receive it of the music because once it leaves me and I brought it into the world, people can listen to it and make it their own and attach whatever they want to to it. So, I mean, a song that for me might be, I'll never forget, I have a song on my first album called "I Don't Believe It Much." And it's very tongue-in-cheek because I'm actually believing a lot of things. But if you don't listen very carefully to the lyrics, you will get the wrong impression. In fact, I won't ruin it for you so that people can go and listen to it. There's one line in the third verse that changes the entire meaning of the song. And so, I've had people come up to me and say, "Man, I've gone through a crisis of faith before "and your song talks about that." And people come up and say, "Oh, I don't believe anything either. "It's nice to hear." And I don't really care, I mean, whatever it means to you is fine with me. And then people have songs they listen to and because they have a happy song of mine that was playing on the radio, but they were going through a breakup so they associate that song with art. - That's insane. - With hard times, I can't control that. So, you know, or they may have a song of mine that's a sad song that they're like, "Oh yeah, I was young and in college "and in love with this song came out "and I just loved this song." Even if it's a sad song. So, you know, I don't really think about that. I don't really worry about it. - That's why musicians-- - People can make it whatever they want. - Artists, musicians, writers should do what they need to do and have integrity to their own art instead of appealing to the audience, right? Because it's always going to be different for the audience, no matter what, it's just the same kind of fact as you can't please everyone. So, once you learn that-- - That is very true. I do not try. - I, you know, I've always thought 'cause I'm one of those little perfectionists, you know-- - Well, the problem is, the problem is if I wanted, if I wanted to believe everybody, it's impossible. - I want to. I want to make everyone happy. That's just me. - But it's just, it's not possible. - Yeah. - I was raised that way. I was raised to try and make everybody happy and raise the beat, yeah. - It sucks. - Really, really like, you know, a great host and, you know, try to really just, but, but, you know, there are people who will not be happy with anything. And, you know, you just hurt yourself. - You're banging your head against the wall. - You hurt yourself, you try it. - Yeah, well-- - So you have to be true to who you are and there you are. - Yeah, and that's what is the beauty of art and when artists do the, what they really want to do, that's when you have this pure art, right? Without these, you know, there's, there's limitations can actually create even more art like-- - Absolutely. - So I don't want to say that. - I know all about that. - Yeah, right. But, so I think that art is, it's interesting with that, but keep it real. I mean, just keep it real. Like, we get so caught up and I think this world, that's this other thing, part of this AI conversation, like when I was talking about, here's these photos, headshots that you could take. And basically, you have no war wounds, right? Like, you have the perfect skin. You know, when I was a kid, it was like, how many scars do you have? We used to show off, you know? And now I've got a ton. Like, all right, you know, you know, here. Like, just look at my body, nothing is perfect at all. And I think when you start to grow and learn as, you know, as individuals and adults, we all learn. And the older we get, the more we go, really get a grip. And that's this interesting phase against, again, with AI with, you know, over perfection. Because you can't please everyone. Art is art, and some people will hate it. And if they hate it, that is still a reaction and watch. 10 years from now, they'll love it. Watch, it happens all the time. - Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, when you try to catch the wave, you're always gonna be behind. When you try to create something that's popular, by the time you've done that, that fad has already gone and you've wasted your time. - Yes, you've been so true. - Yeah, if you stay true to who you are and what you believe, you know, and then the trick is not to be something. You're not, the trick is to find your people that respond to what you do and want to be part of it. And that's a whole different conversation about communication and figuring out where the people are that respond to what you do rather than trying to appeal to everybody. - I love that. I do want to bring this up, though, okay. So I was thinking about this the other day of sports music, right? - Yeah. - I have no clue about sports. And Nancy and I, if there's football on the TV, we'll like put like Beethoven or a Tchaikovsky actually, Nutcracker Suite, it goes really well with your play. - Yeah, it is, you knew, you know us wait well, Joey. You know, we have not met in person, but boy, it doesn't matter, nothing goes by. - That's right. - So Nutcracker Suite with guides in, you know, football uniforms running around, you know, one way. Yes, and wrestling, they do some interesting things. But anyway, it's funny. We just were not, that's just were not that. But I do have huge appreciation for those who really put themselves out there, the training, all of that. Like what musicians, same thing. - Oh, yeah, it's an incredible discipline, sure. - Yeah, the discipline that goes into achieve your goal, right? So I don't care what it is, songs you're not hurting somebody. - Absolutely. - That's that goal, right? But there's music that you know musicians wrote to be a sports song, so that they do know what I mean. Like some people go according to a template and they will make millions off of it. - Oh, sure. - Because, and I was seeing that if you write a song that's about football, you're gonna make money. If it's a good song, like it has to still have, the thing is you still have to be good, right? You still, so that's a good thing. But if you wrote a football song, I guarantee you, and you released it in football season and it's a halfway decent song, you're gonna make more than if you didn't play to the template. Like, do you, do you know what I mean? Like that's a weird thing to me. - Well, what's interesting is a lot of that music, a lot of that music comes from music libraries who for a discounted rate will provide you music that are just designed to be played with sports. Typically they don't have lyrics. You know, typically there's an up tempo rock or hip hop that goes with a certain kind of motion, sort of kind of tempo for basketball or football or whatever. But there are songs like, there are songs like, Oh, what's that? - Put me in coach. - Yeah, John Frogh. - Put me in coach, yeah. - I mean, you know, I don't know if you wrote it, you know, as, I don't know if he did that as a strategy, thinking this will be a classic baseball thing. - I don't think he's really-- - I think he just wrote it. - I don't think he's that way. He's a badass. I don't think you can tell him what to do ever. - I would say that's probably true. But yes, so I mean, you know, there are some songs that have been, and there's another one that Kenny Rogers wrote. I've never heard it in a sports game, but it was a baseball song. And I can't remember, it's that little boy who was playing, you know, baseball in his backyard and wasn't very good. I can't think of the name of it. - But that's kind of cool, though. So I mean, I mean, that's a thing. It's, there's, you know what I'm saying, that people know the tempo, like, I know, you know, Nancy and I've done gazillions of riding horses and riding horses, horse, not horses, horses, and learning our craft, right, of riding. And Nancy did a lot in fiction work because she was riding historical novels, but she always goes down rapid holds and never produces a novel. Because she's just like, this is so cool. Did you know? Like, I can't go, there's no way. There's not like, I swear to God, every time I see Nancy, like, we travel and work together, right? And live together as we go. But like, I get away, do a podcast or whatever. I go down within seconds. I can't even go, hey, Nick, no, here's another weird rabbit hole you need to know about. Like, it's weird. Like, that's her. But it's cool, right? - Oh, no, she's great. - But when she went into this whole fiction writing thing and I did too and we've done a ton of work, I know how to write screenplay is all of that kind of stuff, right? And that from way, way a long time ago, I don't ask me to do it now, but there's a simple formula, right? But it's not. And this is, we both got really pissy about it because everything was a template. You write a children's book, this is how you do it, this is the way and follow this formula. And it's kind of, and what we're seeing in the world now with AI again, some of it is really cool. It helps you, gives you a way to do something that you couldn't do before. And you still have creative input and you can edit and, you know, you can go use Grammarly, for example. Not a bad tool. And you could say yay or nay, whether or not you wanna make the change. If you have a swear to God and people don't actually know their grammar anyway. So that's a whole thing. So, but if you can do that and get ahead and go, yes, no. And you could go look it up yourself or whatever, it makes you slow down and put out something quality that versus, you know, I'm just tossing something out there, right, in the world, no matter what in writing. But what we got kind of grossed out was like, you write this formula, just change the character, change this scenario and you've got a novel and you can make money with a bodice ripper or children's book this way or whatever. And we both were just like, I get why and how? The psychology behind it? Kind of like the hallmark movies that people are watching the same movie in a different place. - It's the same film over and over and over. - And it works. - That's not the same, it's not a couple of good ones, but generally speaking. - You know what I mean? So it's kind of like we get horrified by it, but the reality, like people have been making money off of this crap for years, right? - Sure. - Well, people like it and they like it. - It's interesting you say that because in music, we have a similar issue and that is that people want something new, but they don't typically want something so new that it's different. - No, I'm different than I love new things. But, you know, a lot of times people like, you know, they like what they like. I mean, if you look at some of the most famous artists and some of the artists that have made the most money, they tend to be, not always, but nothing is always, but they tend to be very limited in their palette of ideas and total colors and stuff like that. And so you can say, oh, I recognize this artist within two seconds, I know who it is, 'cause the artists are distinctive. So you get people like myself who can play any style of music authentically, and I can be a chameleon, I can, you know, I play guitar and bass and sing on all kinds of people's records. And I play country and hip-hop and jazz and rock, having metal and, you know, all these different things. Flamingo and classical and all this stuff. That ability to play so many different styles actually is sort of a detriment when it comes to making music off your art. You're actually better if you've got more limitations and you only just do what you do. That's really better. So it's kind of an interesting thing. I mean, if you look at some of this big artists, they would never make it as a session player. You couldn't, you-- - God, the session players to me are the people who really know their stuff, man. God, I think they are so underrated in the music world. Like, I want music lovers to understand and start looking at album notes. Well, that's hard now, right? But look at the album notes and see, you know, like Karl Farhayen, he's played on so many albums, right? He's an amazing session player, but look at his actual career too, like what he's done. You know, there's certain people that are just like, they tour, they work with bigger bands, but they're also session players. And in half of the albums that we know wouldn't exist without session players and the listeners have no clue a lot of time. - Oh, that's true. - And I want to change that somehow. We should do a session player show, actually, now that they think of it. We should invite-- - That'd be fun. - Yeah, because they, I mean, I think in COVID, we started to learn more about that, right? Because they were like musicians, they're like, okay, well, I'm gonna do a live stream on Zoom or whatever. And oh, I better get my session plans to come in, right? And that's the thing, these musicians are able to, I'm fascinated by it because there's session players in a recording and then session players that can go in and sit for bands that are touring. And they have to, I just think this is this whole other thing that just is not out front in the music world. I think a lot of hardcore music lovers obviously get it, right? But there are musicians that, okay, Neil Young's coming to town, you better know all, you're gonna be the backup drummer, something happened. You have to be able to sit in just like in a play, right? You're the understudy, right? - Yeah. - In a play you have to know, but they're practicing along with everybody. Now a session player has to know their stuff immediately, be able to read it on site or get it now and do it now. Like it's pretty intense when you say for musicians do. Suddenly, okay, so-and-so's coming to town, they're looking for their band, especially when musicians travel to Europe and because of visas and stuff or of Europe coming here or whatever, international travel for bands is hard. - Very hard. - Very, very difficult. Thank you, politicians. Can we figure out, like really, right? But yeah, the session musicians saved the day and yet no one knows who these people are behind the big greats, you know? - Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of session guys that are making pretty impressive records and helping them to make the records what they are. I used to be, when I was younger, I used to orchestrate things a lot more and say, here's the part, play it. I've written this part for you on saxophone, even though I don't play saxophone. Here's what I want you to play. And I still have a great knowledge of what I want, but what I do now is I hire the right person for the right job and then I don't have to coach them as much because someone will say, like Randall Brammott is a dear friend of mine and a great session musician, sideman and artist in his own right and songwriter. You know, he said to me, I forget what, I guess it was maybe 2019 or 2020 before COVID. He was playing on a track. He was like, what do you want me to do? He was like, I just do you. Just give me the Randall Brammott sound. That's what this song needs, just do you. And I really, on that particular song, I didn't tell him what to play at all. And he gave me exactly what I needed. I didn't have to say anything. In fact, he's played on five or six songs of mine. - Yeah, you've talked about him before, yeah. - Yeah, I'm really proud to know him. I'm really proud to be in his world. I'm really proud to call him a friend and mentor, and he's so talented and just such a unique voice as an artist. But I've said two things to him are actually three things. I've given him three notes in my entire time working with him. Three notes. One time he said, I don't know if this harmony is, this harmony might be too weird. And I was like, no, I love it, leave it. So there was that one time I said, hey, Randall, I just, everything's perfect, but I needed to play one lyric where there's a hole in the vocal between this point and this point in the bridge. So he didn't do that. He didn't play it without me telling him and then I told him that that's one. And then one time I was like, you know, I feel like you're slightly ahead on the course of this song. So just lay back in the pocket a little bit more. And that's it. Three notes in an entire, since I've known him, I've known him from 1996 to present day. And so, and he's played on five or six tracks. And those are the three notes that I've given him in our entire relationship. - That's amazing. - So I mean, that kind of, you know... - Yeah, I think, do, do you mean... - Or that he's the right guy for the right job too. - Right, and do you get, I mean, like Johnny Mastro and the mama's boys out of New Orleans and he tours and he's like, I have my European band and I have my American band. - Yeah, I really think that's... I have that dental to take my band over to Europe. We were going to go in 2019 'cause I had the band signed exactly how I wanted it. I was really proud of it. We had a record out called "In the Shadow of the Sun." It was doing really well on radio. We were really doing great and it was gonna bring us over. And that's when the whole Brexit stuff was going on. And I said, I'd called my attorney and said, look, who do I need to talk to about visas? Who do I need to, you know, blah, blah, blah about taxes and all this stuff. And he connected me with an attorney over in the UK and they said, yeah, it'll cost you 2,500 pounds for us to do all your visa work and your paperwork and all that kind of stuff. And that's what, and then it was gonna cost me probably 6,000 or 7,000 pounds to bring the band over. - And then hotel rooms. - Well, yeah, and so my goal was to break even. So when I talked to the lawyers, I said, okay, now what guarantee do I have with Brexit and all this stuff? What guarantee of entry do I have to the UK? And I said, oh, you don't have a guarantee. Because the law is so vague with Brexit and everything changing, but it's up to each individual customs officer to interpret it. And so I was like, the hell with this? I was like, I'm not gonna spend 10 grand and maybe be able to get in the country and maybe not. And so I decided not to go. And now I've been touring the UK and Milan and Paris and different places, but I've been just going with me and my guitar. And now I've got enough European friends now that I don't even have to take my guitar anymore, which is a great burden to be lifted. I've got friends in the UK that I just borrowed their guitar and their good guitars are like Martin guitars and stuff like that. And I just borrowed their guitars. I don't even have to bring my guitar over anymore. (laughs) - Wow. - So it's just being in the guitar. - But that means you know your stuff too, that you're able to go on someone else's guitar and be able to play any guitar. You know what I mean? - Yeah, sure, any guitar will be. - That's flexibility. And we talked about that once on a show where you were talking about not having rituals because you set yourself up for things to be exactly this way. And that's not really how life works. - That's not real. - It's not real. I mean, so I'm surprised you remember that. I really do not believe in rituals because if I get myself locked into a point that I can't function without something, that sets me up for failure. Because life is not perfect, sometimes it's not fair. And if you get set up to a point where you can't perform without something, there will come a day where you're not able to keep your commitment and I refuse to have that. - Yeah, I'm like that. I mean, podcasts, we've done, I mean, we've been doing this. I realized almost 18 years. I just realized going through some archives today and I'm like, that's insane. - That's a long time. - That's a long time. And before the word podcast existed, right? - Yeah. - Yeah, it's interesting. 2005, I was at a music conference in Florida and I was a panelist on a couple panels. And somebody was saying in the audience asked a question, what do you think is gonna be the biggest new wave in the music business? And I said, podcasts and they're like, what's that? And at that time, if you had Google podcast, you would have gotten about 20 results. - And look how long it took to find each other. - Yeah, I know, I know. But podcasts, you know, so that's about right because podcasts started kind of showing up around 2005. And then, you know, what, around 2010, they kind of exploded, I guess. - God, don't even ask me the year. Don't ask me to do math, but we did it. We did it through Blog Talk 'cause Nancy got interviewed. Blog Talk Radio, when they started was really cool. - I remember. - Only place where people could call in and you could be online and like old school radio and we love that fact. 'Cause we were interviewing people when we could put MP3s on the website and we actually met the family and the parents of the guy that invented MP3s. This was out in Encinitas, California. Our band played for like one of their family functions at the Quail Botanical Gardens, which is now in San Diego Botanical Gardens. Yeah, our band played. And that's where I learned about MP3s, was at this event. I mean, it's family and they're like, my son invented the MP3. I'm like, well, what the hell is an MP3? That sounds like something you don't want to bend over for, you know, and lo and behold, you know, we were going around at that time, we had a print magazine and people were getting websites and we were doing our own because we were getting quotes that were insane. I mean, we started our magazine in '97, right? And the websites were coming up, but there was no, we had those big earthling books and there was no way to find websites. And people were printing business cards without putting their website on it. And we're like, what is wrong with you? Oh, we want this ad in the magazine and, oh, but I'm like, don't you want to put your website in it? Like, how are people going to know? You spent five to $10,000 on the website. Sure. And people would find things, you know, serendipulously, which was kind of cool, you know what I mean? Back in the day when it all first started, wasn't the internet cool at the beginning? It was so exciting. And I have to say, when we started podcasting through Blog Talk, it was exciting because they were at the beginning and we were incorporating sound effects. We were making our own, like just out of my mouth on a show kind of thing. We didn't know if things would happen if things went down, the audience knew. It was kind of like this grand experiment, knowing it was going to get better. And then they sold and then they sold and then they sold and it didn't work anymore. And they're still there and everything. I'm not knocking it, but it's not that you could excuse things not being right at that time because it was so new. And we ended up, I remember sitting at one point, we had a cooler in the office. Nancy and I are sitting there and things started growing so much. We had a cooler just for water in the room. We were going from one show to the next. I can't even explain how crazy it was at the beginning of podcasting, how crazy. And it was this new radio form. And we interviewed so many people around the world and we went from being Southwest to being international. - Yeah, I never did. I've been, people have been telling me to do a podcast. I've never done a podcast, but just me. But I did FM radio for years from 96 to 2000, I did FM radio here in town on the bigger stations. And then from about 90, let's see, then from about 2006 through about 2011, I did internet based radio. And then from 2005, 2007, I did an internet based TV show. Then I think it was around 2011 to 2015. I did a terrestrial based TV show on the local NBC affiliate here. And then 2015 to 2017, something like that. I did a web based radio TV show. So I've done a lot of things. - If you go with what you can do because you know it's gonna change, right? And I feel like you have to jump into whatever is always there. And even if you say, oh, I'm gonna jump in and try it. Oh, this doesn't work for me. So it doesn't work, don't do it then. And it does, do it. And no, it's gonna change again. 'Cause every other day, I mean, you know, that would like suddenly-- - The one time since it's changed, that's right. - It is the permanent thing and it's interesting. I mean, that's why it's so cool to have an acoustic album because it just goes, we need to go back to our roots at times. - Yeah, I agree. - I just feel that. I feel that we need some just simplicity, you know? - Yeah, no, I totally agree. - Your guitar playing is nothing simplistic about it, but it flows simplistically, but you're not playing simplicity. 'Cause that's-- - Yeah, there's a weird chord on it. - That's a weird chord on it. That's a weird word, that's a weird word. Simplicity, that's-- - Yeah. - Easy for you to say. - Apparently not. (laughing) Is it cocktail time? No, but-- - It is somewhere. - Yeah, it is somewhere. - It is somewhere, but Joey, congratulations. A new EP out, everybody go get it. The 28 that's out everywhere, right? - Right, everyone, you wanna see it? - There's a link in the show notes, but people can also go to joeystucky.com. Keep up with that, June 28th is when it's out, and go get it, keep up with Joey, go to joeystucky.com, and keep up with us at bigblendradio.com. Always fun, Joey. We're gonna see you in Georgia this year. It's gonna happen, I swear. It didn't happen earlier this year, but it will. You know, change happened. - That's what happened. - That's exactly right. - Talking about podcasting changes, jeez. All right, well, now I am gonna go have a cocktail when I ever think about what you're wondering. But thanks as always, but it is good to hear that. I love that, I love your rhythm playing, man. You've got, I really admire what you do with the guitar of that rhythm. That is amazing, amazing work. Good vocals, soulful, good stuff. - Thanks, Joey. - My pleasure, friend. (upbeat music) ♪ Oh ♪ ♪ Crowdroads ♪ ♪ Sing the common goal ♪
