DIANE VON FURSTENBERG: Woman in Charge w/ Oscar-winning Director SHARMEEN OBAID-CHINOY
How can we free ourselves from fear and social barriers to live more fulfilling and meaningful lives? What does it take to overcome trauma and turn it into triumph, and failure into reinvention? How can we shine a light on the marginalized and misunderstood to create social change that transforms the lives of women?
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy is an Oscar and Emmy award-winning Canadian-Pakistani filmmaker whose work highlights extraordinary women and their stories. She earned her first Academy Award in 2012 for her documentary Saving Face, about the Pakistani women targeted by brutal acid attacks. Today, Obaid-Chinoy is the first female film director to have won two Oscars by the age of 37. In 2023, it was announced that Obaid-Chinoy will direct the next Star Wars film starring Daisy Ridley. Her most recent project, co-directed alongside Trish Dalton, is the new documentary Diane von Furstenberg: Woman in Charge, about the trailblazing Belgian fashion designer who invented the wrap dress 50 years ago. The film had its world premiere as the opening night selection at the 2024 Tribeca Festival on June 5th and premiered on June 25th on Hulu in the U.S. and Disney+ internationally. A product of Obaid-Chinoy's incredibly talented female filmmaking team, Woman in Charge provides an intimate look into Diane von Furstenberg’s life and accomplishments and chronicles the trajectory of her signature dress from an innovative fashion statement to a powerful symbol of feminism.
Duration:
37m
Broadcast on:
04 Jul 2024
Audio Format:
mp3
How can we free ourselves from fear and social barriers to live more fulfilling and meaningful lives? What does it take to overcome trauma and turn it into triumph, and failure into reinvention? How can we shine a light on the marginalized and misunderstood to create social change that transforms the lives of women?
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy is an Oscar and Emmy award-winning Canadian-Pakistani filmmaker whose work highlights extraordinary women and their stories. She earned her first Academy Award in 2012 for her documentary Saving Face, about the Pakistani women targeted by brutal acid attacks. Today, Obaid-Chinoy is the first female film director to have won two Oscars by the age of 37. In 2023, it was announced that Obaid-Chinoy will direct the next Star Wars film starring Daisy Ridley. Her most recent project, co-directed alongside Trish Dalton, is the new documentaryDiane von Fürstenberg: Woman in Charge, about the trailblazing Belgian fashion designer who invented the wrap dress 50 years ago. The film had its world premiere as the opening night selection at the 2024 Tribeca Festival on June 5th and premiered on June 25th on Hulu in the U.S. and Disney+ internationally. A product of Obaid-Chinoy's incredibly talented female filmmaking team, Woman in Charge provides an intimate look into Diane von Fürstenberg’s life and accomplishments and chronicles the trajectory of her signature dress from an innovative fashion statement to a powerful symbol of feminism.
THE CREATIVE PROCESS
You tell the story of Diane von Fürstenberg: Woman in Charge, and it's truly fascinating because it's not just one story but many. It encompasses 50 years since the creation of the wrap dress. It’s the story of Diane, but it’s also her mother’s history as a Holocaust survivor and how she instilled in Diane resilience, imagination, and drive. You tell so many layered interesting stories, 1950s and 60s in Europe, 1970s in America in the era of sexual freedom and the hedonistic New York scene. It's the story of a businesswoman, a princess, a marriage, reinvention, and a dress that became a symbol of women's empowerment and liberation. In the way that Diane Von Furstenberg created a timeless dress that became a symbol of freedom for women worldwide, you present us with the beautiful life of a single working mother, allowing us to see ourselves in her vulnerabilities and struggles, inspiring us to chart our own path and find our voice on the journey to becoming women in charge. With all these intricate stories, how did you find your way into her story?
SHARMEEN OBAID-CHINOY
As a filmmaker, I've always made films about extraordinary women whose lives are faced with extenuating circumstances who've had adversity thrown at them and who've risen to the occasion. And when I began to look at Diane's story, for me, Diane is a fashion designer, but she's so much more. Her central ethos is woman before fashion, and we felt it was very important to take that ethos and weave it into the spine of our film, and make it about the woman.
The Making of Diane von Furstenberg: Woman in Charge
From the first time we sat down with Diane, she's such a natural storyteller that she began at her birth, which was a triumph because her mother had come out of Auschwitz only 18 months before she was born. As we began to tell Diane's story, we realized that it was so intrinsically linked with the history, politics, culture of the world, whether it was Europe in the 1950s and 60s, or America in the 70s and 80s. We felt that while we were telling Diane's story, we also wanted to tell the bigger story of what was happening in the world at that time. And so you see that when you watch the film, there are many layers, whether it's graphics, or music, or archival footage, or photographs that we’ve used. Together, they weave a story of what it was like to live at that time. And that is a very conscious decision that Trish Dalton, my co-director, and I made when we were designing the film.
Towards the end of our filming, Diane took us on a walk, and as we walked through the woods, we ended up at a flat ground that had a stone wall around it. And Diane looked at me and said, “This is my resting place.” We knew that in telling Dan's story, we had a beginning, middle, and end, and that had been clearly defined by Diane herself. And that was the natural arc of the film that we chose to tell.
Once Diane was ready to tell her story, we spent a lot of time talking with the camera off, and spending time with her, traveling with her, having meals with her and really peeling the onion to get to the heart of Diane. At its core, it is also a film about four generations of women. It's about Diane's mother, it's about Diane, it's about Diane's daughter, and her granddaughter. We wanted all those voices in the film, and her family was incredible in that they allowed us into the inner sanctum of their lives.
Trish and I were really spoiled for choice because Diane has, unlike so many other people, documented every single minute of her life. In the basement of her house, there is a long room that has all her diaries, photographs, videos, mementos, letters from her children, and scrapbooks. And so when we began telling this story, we really went deep into her personal archives. That is why the film is so rich; that is why you see Diane when she's two, three, four years old, you hear from her mother. That is why, as Diane goes on a journey from Europe to America, you go through her scrapbooks and you see her own personal journey and her children's journey.
And I think in making this film, every single person who we called whose voice we wanted to include wanted to contribute. They wanted to say something about Diane, because she had left such a mark on their lives. Our producers’ jobs, Tracy and Fabiola, was to juggle those schedules. How do you juggle the schedule of secretary Hillary Clinton with Oprah Winfrey? How do you make sure that Anderson Cooper and Mark Jacobs, you know, in the filming time that we had, that we could put all of these people together? But Diane's friendships run deep with people, and people made sure to make time.
You know, she was a single mother, and I think that young single mothers watching this film will feel for Diane, especially single mothers who are trying to be entrepreneurs, and creating businesses, and trying to find their way into the world to be able to raise a family. To do that as an immigrant in a new country is challenging, and Diane shows you just how challenging it is. In making choices about living her life, in being with her children or expanding her business, there were sacrifices that were made, and those sacrifices are boldly put on the screen for viewers to watch.
THE CREATIVE PROCESS
You've told the stories of marginalized communities in Pakistan and women who have risen above their personal circumstances to highlight issues such as honor killings and acid attacks, or challenging stories in war zones, like children of the Taliban. As a storyteller, you’ve been at the front lines of trauma and injustice, and during this process, you've been threatened and harassed at times. How do you overcome your own fears and find the courage to ask those important questions and tell these important stories that are not often told?
OBAID-CHINOY
When I was young, I think empathy and the fact that I wanted to create characters, or tell the stories of people who had been on hero's journeys and who had been faced with extraordinary circumstances - that is something that has always driven me. The spine of the body of my work has been about the hero's journeys. And sometimes, when you are telling stories, and holding up a mirror, there are reverberations that take place. And I think that for me, the question is if I am bringing to screen the stories of people who will inspire others, move others to think about other people in a different light. If I feel like I've been able to do that, then I think the price to pay to tell those stories is worth it.
I realized very young and very early on in my career that film does more than just inform and inspire and entertain. It can move people into action, whether it's personal or collective action. The first time I realized that was in 2006, when I did a film in the Philippines, which was about women who did not have access to contraceptives and were being forced into a life of constant pregnancies. The organization that I was profiling as part of that film used the film to lobby the local government to rethink its decisions. Suddenly, my film went from just being a film to something bigger than that. And that's when I realized that there could be certain films that I create that could impact the lives of other people.
In 2015, with A Girl in the River, I created a film that was about a young girl who had been shot by her father and her uncle because she had decided to get married on her own free will. They left her to die in a gunny sack in the river, and she survived. Sabah's story was deeply inspiring, because she wanted to send her father and uncle to jail, but in the end, she forgave them using a lacuna in the law. And when it was nominated for an Academy Award, we wrote a letter to the prime minister of Pakistan, and we used the film to educate and inform the government about the impact of the lacuna in that law, and how it was being misused. The film played a role in closing that and changing the law, which ensured that men who killed women in the name of honor would go to prison.
As a filmmaker, when I go into a project, I go in with a very open mind, because I'm there to learn and to understand the protagonist and their struggles. But as we're filming, we begin to piece together what the story is, what is the start of the story, what moves them, what are the pivotal moments in their life, and I think that we begin to put the building blocks off that. And then, towards the end of the filming, that's when we really realize what the arc of the story is. Oftentimes, it's not the arc that we originally envisioned it was going to be. As a filmmaker, I like to be surprised. I like to think that what I came into the film with has changed, because that's the real “aha moment” when you're a filmmaker.
On Embracing Technology and the Future Impact of AI on Film
I think it's very early for us to see how AI is going to impact us all, especially documentary filmmakers. And so I embrace technology, and I encourage everyone as filmmakers to do so. We're looking at how AI is facilitating filmmakers to tell stories, create more visual worlds. I think that right now we're in the play phase of AI, where there's a lot of new tools and you're playing in a sandbox with them to see how they will develop.
I don't think that AI has developed to the extent that it is in some way dramatically changing the film industry as we speak, but in the next two years, it will. We have yet to see how it will. As someone who creates films, I always experiment, and then I see what it is that I'd like to take from that technology as I move forward.
Reflections on Climate Change and Connecting with Mother Nature
My production company SOC Films, which works out of Pakistan, has created more than 15 short films about climate change in the region, and created a book for children to talk about climate change heroes. Pakistan is one of the top 10 countries in the world most affected by climate change. And so at the heart of everything that I do, climate change matters greatly to me because I have a personal connection to it.
I love to hike and I seek out mountains and quiet places where one can be in solitude with nature. I think that in the desire to expand and consume, we have really shaken the core of that connection that we have with Mother Earth — and I think that it's important. It's incumbent upon us to make sure that our children's generation and their children's generation have that same connection, where they can be in parts of the world where Mother Nature has been left to be in the state that it's meant to be in.
This interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interview Producer and Associate Text Editor on this episode was Sophia Reecer. Additional production support by Katie Foster.
- One, two, three, four. - How can we free ourselves from fear and social barriers to live more fulfilling and meaningful lives? What does it take to overcome trauma and turn it into triumph and failure into reinvention? How can we shine a light on the marginalized and misunderstood to create social change and transform the lives of women? - Charmino Bichinoy is an Oscar and Emmy award-winning Canadian Pakistani filmmaker whose work highlights extraordinary women and their stories. She earned her first Academy Award in 2012 for her documentary "Saving Face" about the Pakistani women targeted by brutal asset attacks. Today, Bichinoy is the first female film director to have won two Oscars by the age of 37. In 2023, it was announced that Bichinoy will direct the next "Star Wars" film starring Daisy Ridley. Her most recent project co-directed alongside Trish Dalton is the new documentary Diane Von Furstenberg, "Woman in Charge" about the trailblazing Belgian fashion designer who invented the rock dress 50 years ago. The film had its world premiere as the opening night selection at the 2024 Tribeca Festival on June 5th and premiered June 25th on Hulu in the US and Disney+ internationally. A product of Bichinoy is incredibly talented female filmmaking team. "Woman in Charge" provides an intimate look into Diane Von Furstenberg's life and accomplishments and chronicles the trajectory of her signature dress from an innovative fashion statement to a powerful symbol of feminism. - Charmino Bichinoy, welcome to the creative process. Thank you so much for having me. - So you tell the story of Diane Von Furstenberg, "Woman in Charge," but it's really fascinating because it's not just one story. It's really many stories, 50 years on from the creation of the rock dress. The story of Diane Von Furstenberg, but it also before that, the story of her mother who was a Holocaust survivor, who was, you know, of course instilled in her "The Resilience Imagination and Drive." Also in so many layered interesting stories, 1950s and 60s Europe, 1970s America, the whole sexual freedom and the hedonistic New York scene. Also the story of a businesswoman, a princess, the story of a marriage, her reinvention, and the story of a dress that, of course, became a symbol of women's empowerment and liberation. So I think in the way that Diane Von Furstenberg created this timeless dress, that's that symbol of freedom that women around the world could see themselves in, you present us with a beautiful life of a single working mother with all her vulnerabilities and struggles so that we can see ourselves in her life and how we might chart our own path, find our voice so that we can find our own way to becoming a woman in charge. So with all these stories and complicated threads, and I believe you've known Diane for over a decade, how did you find your way into her story? - The first time I met Diane Von Furstenberg was on stage where she was presenting me with a glamour woman of the year award at Carnegie Hall. And I had just won my first Academy Award, and I had bought the main protagonist of my film, Zakia, who had been a victim of acid violence onto stage with me. And when the three of us exited the stage, we got into an elevator to go into the green room. And Diane was making a conscious effort to look at the floor because she didn't want to make Zakia uncomfortable by looking at herself in the mirror. But the first thing that Zakia did, as she stepped into the elevator, was start looking at her makeup. And that, you know, moved Diane because here was this woman who had so much thrown at her, who had this half of her face guard, who was still strong enough and saw beauty in herself, that she was looking at herself in the mirror. And that's what got Diane, myself and Zakia, into a conversation. And it was so powerful for her that she wrote about it in her book. And that's how our friendship began in 2012 and over the years, you know, we would text each other off and on and we would chat. And it was only in the last, I'd say five or six years when we really began to speak a lot more often. And it stemmed from Diane reaching out because she wanted me to create a series of films about the women whose voices she was amplifying and giving awards to her DVF awards. And when I began to look at those stories, they all brought me back to Diane. And I had a conversation with her just before the pandemic saying that you should really be telling your story. And Diane wasn't ready at that time. But then a few years later, I got a call from Fabiola Beckman, who is a producer on our film, who had convinced Diane. And they came to me and wanted me to direct that story. And so that's how the journey of Diane won Firstenburg Woman in Charge began. The adventure of my own life has been incredible. Fashion tycoon, feminist icon. I was in charge of my destiny. GVF. GVF. GVF. I became the woman I wanted to be. Welcome to the woman who reinvented the dress, Diane won Firstenburg. I created the wrap dress and I wrapped America around. It epitomized a modern woman who could have it all. She was one of the first women who broke through the glass ceiling in business. Now there's a woman. As a filmmaker, I've always made films about extraordinary women whose lives are faced with extenuating circumstances, who've had adversity thrown at them and who risen to the occasion. And when I began to look at Diane's story, for me, Diane is a fashion designer, but she's so much more. And like her central ethos, which is woman before fashion, we felt it was very important to take that central ethos and weave that into the spine of our film and make this film about the woman. Yeah, it certainly captured her central ethos and character and helped us understand the woman behind the fashion icon and brand. And then you take us back to her early life in Belgium, back to her mother's life. You know, so many struggles in our life, it can harden us, right? But it's about holding onto our femininity and rising above the struggles and overcoming the obstacles and becoming like Diane von Firstenburg. I made an example to all so we can see ourselves in it. And I still like Zacchaeus' story as well because it kind of overlaps with the beginning of the story where we see Diane's feet in a very humbling moment, soaking her feet in the sink and looking at herself in the mirror, on a dawn. And as she says, you should not hide your age, the wrinkle, the your biography, they're your experience, that's your life. So how did you weave that all together? From the first time we sat down with Diane, she's such a natural storyteller that she began at her birth, which was a triumph because her mother had come out of Auschwitz only 18 months before she was born. And as we began to tell Diane's story, we realized that her story was so intrinsically linked with the history and politics and culture of the world, whether it was Europe in the 1950s and 60s or America in the 70s and 80s. And so we felt that while we were telling Diane's story, we also wanted to tell the biggest story of what was happening in the world at that time. And so you see that when you watch the film, there are many layers to the film, whether it's graphics or music or archival footage that we have used or photographs that we've used. Together, they weave a story of what it was like to live at that time. And that is a very conscious decision that Trish Norton, my co-director and I, made when we were designing the film. But towards the end of our filming, Diane took us on a walk. And as we walked through to the woods, we ended up at a flat ground that had a stone wall around it. And Diane looked at me and said, "This is my resting place." And we knew that in telling Diane's story, we had a beginning, middle and end, and that had been clearly defined by Diane herself. And that was the natural arc of the film that we chose to tell. - Yes, indeed, you become storytelling partners. I also wonder about that because for someone, she's so used to telling her story, but not ever in that way, right? Someone who's so used to being in charge. So how do you establish that trust? Not just with her, but getting her family to open up, getting in so many notable figures, or Barry Diller, Gloria Steinem, Hillary Clinton, Oprah Winfrey, Mark Jacobs, and getting them all to be storytelling partners, as you say, to tell the story of these decades, the hardest story of fashion, women's liberation. So how did you weave that together and establish trust with her family and them? - I think that once Diane was ready to tell her story, we spent a lot of time talking with the camera off and spending time with her, traveling with her, having meals with her, and really peeling the onion to get to the heart of Diane. When you tell a story of someone who is such a public figure and who's told her own stories on so many platforms, you're forced to think about that story you want to tell, which will be different. And I think the one that we wanted to tell was what drives Diane to be who she is and the choices that she's made and how her family has played a role in shaping her. At the heart of our film, it is also a film about, four generations of women. It's about Diane's mother, it's about Diane, it's about Diane's daughter and her granddaughter. And we wanted all those voices in the film. Her family was incredible in that they allowed us into the inner sanctum of their lives. They opened up to us, they gave us raw and honest answers. And that is what makes the film special, that everyone, there were no masks in the story. There is a clear understanding that this is a open and honest portrayal of Diane's life. And I have to say that as filmmakers, Trish and I were really spoiled for choice because Diane has, unlike so many other people, documented every single minute of her life in the basement of her house, there is a long room that has all her diaries, photographs, videos, momentos, letters from her children, scrapbooks. And so when we began telling the story, we really went deep into her personal archives. And that is why the film is so rich. That is why you see Diane, when she's two, three, four years old, you hear from her mother, that is why, as Diane goes on a journey from Europe to America, you go through her scrapbooks and you see her own personal journey. And her children's journey. And I think in making this film, every single person who we called, who we wanted, whose voice we wanted to include, wanted to contribute. They wanted to say something about Diane because Diane had left such a mark on their lives. It was just our producer's job, Tracy and Fabiola, was to juggle those schedules. Like how do you juggle the schedule of, you know, Secretary Hillary Clinton with Oprah Winfrey? And how do you make sure that Anderson Cooper and Mark Jacobs, in the filming time that we had, that we could put all of these people together? But Diane's friendships run deep with people and people make sure to make time. - Yes. - Do you show that Diane's relationships run deep, you know, even after her divorce from Prince Aegon von Firstenburg, she explains how they remained friends and they loved each other throughout his entire life. And it really was an unconventional love, you know, after they moved to New York City in 1969 and became important figures in the social scene, mingling with artists, rock stars and power brokers, you show how this was a time of free love and how they enjoyed that lifestyle. Aegon being sexually adventurous and engaging in affairs with both women and men. And the documentary makes it clear that Diane also took advantage of their open relationship and describing some of her relationships with women as well. So many sides of her life that people might not have known. But of course, eventually she separated from Aegon and this is really when her business expanded and flourished and it was the beginning of her reinvention. She says divorce to me was freedom. - Well, I think Diane is a woman who has continued to reinvent herself. I think at the heart of it, she wanted to be an independent woman and she wanted to be free. And I think fashion was her conduit to that freedom. But once she created the rap dress and it became a phenomena, it was about creating makeup. It was about perfumes and it was always a constant conversation with women. Diane would go on the road to malls across America and teach women how to do makeup. And at the heart of it was about spend very little time on yourself, on doing makeup and dressing yourself, spend more time on taking care of yourself, finding your own path in the world. And those were important lessons to be giving women in the 1970s when women needed men to cosign for something as small as a credit card. - Indeed. And I can't think of a single symbolic item of clothing that could embody so much. They, as you say, the clothing is a symbol, but it's also like a permission to reclaim agency in your life and how it was really taken on by people in that way. It's like an armor which is also liberating and you see the women inside. - I will see that when the rap dress came out, high fashion was not accessible to women. And also fashion was difficult where you couldn't just pack something and go off on the road. Diane created a garment that you could pack in your suitcase, bring it out. You didn't need to iron it. You would just shake it off. You could put it on and tie it. You could go in the morning to a breakfast meeting. You could take your kids to school. You could go for cocktails in the evening by putting on a pair of high heels shoes. It became such a versatile garment. It liberated women into thinking about five things they needed to wear on the day for five different occasions. And I think that is the beauty of the rap dress that you can wear it at any point in the day. It's how you dress it. - And she has so many original sayings, some expressions she learned from her mother, others she embellished or added to over time. There's so many but I'm just gonna rattle a few of them off. You're always with yourself so you might as well enjoy the company. Fear is not an option. Indeed to teach her that lesson about overcoming fear and instilling resilience and discipline in her. You tell the story about her mother used to lock her in a dark closet to be prepared for those obstacles that life presents you. Other sayings of hers, the most important thing is to have a vision and to follow it. Insecurity is a waste of time. Clarity is the most important thing in life. The journey is the reward. And one of them that I absolutely love is that she was living a man's life as a woman. As you say, but she didn't have to encase herself in that male costume. You're a physical being. You're not suddenly masquerading as something that you aren't. You embrace all these aspects of yourself. And I think that's hugely empowering. So just set the scene from your first encounter with the rap dress. My first encounter with the rap dress was when I was in college in Northampton, Massachusetts at Smith. And I had to go to a party and I went to a thrift store and I rummaged through the thrift store and found my first rap dress. So I was a college student when I bought mine. For me, the rap dress was the kind of rap dress I could throw in my suitcase and wear anytime. And I wanted to business meetings and I had born it to a sorority party. And you know, it's been so versatile for me. But for me, it's not just Diane's rap dress. For me, it's Diane's Prince. Because Diane's Prince are vivacious and loud and colorful. And you stand out as a woman. And I think that's what really attracts me to her sense of design. When you wear her Prince, no one can miss you. You are very much the focus. And I have thoroughly enjoyed over the years wearing her Prince and her loud colors. I see that as a symbol of femininity. Yes, and also she's a visionary and you know, bringing in together elements we have like echoes of the ballet rap. But in terms of how the dress finally came together, which I didn't realize, you know, everyone else is watching Watergate unfold. And she sees President Nixon's daughter talking about him on television. And Diane has this moment of realization seeing Nixon's daughter and one of her laptops and skirts. And she realizes she can combine the two into a dress. So being able to see beyond the political moment or bringing it into the middle moment and creating a whole movement around it. I think that Diane has an eye where she sees things. And I'll give you an example. When you hear her having discussions with activists whose voices she's amplifying and you know, through the work at Vital Voices or the DVF Awards. When the women talk about their problems, Diane always seeks to steer the conversation towards the solutions. And in a way, she's encouraging women to continuously look at the light instead of focusing on the darkness. Yes, again, that torch for freedom. I think her mother said that you were my torch for freedom. You saved me and you know, what a great image that is. So she also always wants to beat that solution. And she shows that within her own life. I'm wondering if we could talk about, you're talking about the different decades and the 70s and sexual liberation. Can we talk about, you know, sex for a moment? And Dionne's own unconventional life. Because I think in a way it was more liberated than even though we think we were very liberated now and we have many changes in terms of accepting many different lifestyles. But I feel like they were even more liberated than. Diane certainly did live a man's life in a woman's body. She came of age in the 70s where the world was very free and it was a time where you had multiple relationships, you dated several people, you slept with whoever you wanted to. And there was no judgment or no labels. And it was really before there was a more clamped down. And I think that her choices of who she was with were driven by what she felt at that time and who she wanted to be with. I don't think that she held herself back because there was some unwritten rule in society that women had to act a certain way or do a certain thing. And I think that she did exactly what she wanted to do. And she says in the film, "Why can't a woman do what a man does?" And that's a very important question to be putting out into the world. Why is it that men get away with things and women don't? - Exactly. I wish I had that courage. I don't show if my husband wishes. I wish I had that kind of courage. I mean, there are moments. I mean, who can say that they had turned down to some with David Bowie and Mick Jagger who had the same weekend's sexual expression with Ryan O'Neill and Warren Beatty. I mean, it's just, you know, meeting of creative minds, right? - Well, it's such a wonderful story to be able to tell your grandchildren about an evening that could have been with David Bowie and Mick Jagger, but didn't turn out that way. And these are just sort of fragments of Diane's life. And I think that there are a lot of women who may have led very similar lives, but owning up to that and sharing that with the world, very few of them are able to do. It takes a certain determination to continue to be true to yourself, to tell those kind of stories. - As you say, just one element of this whole immense life which is really several lives, right? And the same time, she is in daily contact with her children. You know, she's raising a family, she's a single mother, but also with the involvement of her mother, of course, and doing all these things. And I just felt it was such a tender portrait of motherhood. - You know, she was a single mother. And I think that young single mothers watching this film will feel for Diane, especially single mothers who are trying to be entrepreneurs and creating businesses and trying to find their way into the world, to be able to raise a family and do that as an immigrant in a new country. - It's challenging. - And Diane shows you just how challenging it is. In making choices about living her life, in being with her children, or expanding her business, there were sacrifices that were made. And I think that those sacrifices are boldly put on the screen for viewers to watch. - My role is just helping to inspire women. - I want you to be strong, I want you to be the woman you want to be. - The only place to find your strength is by being true to yourself. - Diane von Furstenberg, woman in charge, has been met with glowing reviews following its Tribeca premiere. For the documentary, Abed Shenoy and her co-director, Trish Dalton were at the helm of an all-female filmmaking team. In her storytelling, Abed Shenoy brings to the table a profound understanding of resilience, as well as a depth of insight informed by her own Muslim heritage. This unique perspective enables her to forge a deep connection with the story of von Furstenberg, whose identity has been significantly shaped by the legacy of being the child of a Holocaust survivor. Through this lens, the film captures von Furstenberg's journey, often punctuated by both public and private struggles, and the unwavering determination that has been crucial in her path to becoming the global fashion icon we celebrate today. This documentary is truly a feat that only someone like Charmino Bechinoy could have achieved. At the center of every one of Abed Shenoy's stories are extraordinary women, and she is, of course, one herself. Abed Shenoy is the founder and CEO of her own production company, SOC Films, which specializes in investigative and socially motivated content. She has dedicated her career to shedding light on injustice and uplifting untold women's narratives, and her background has prepared her well for this. Before she was a graduate student at Stanford, where she earned two master's degrees in communication and international policy studies, Abed Shenoy attended Smith, a small women's college in Massachusetts. Back then, just like today, she made the conscious choice to surround herself with strong, inspiring women. This is a habit that served her well ever since. In 2012, the same year Abed Shenoy won her first Oscar, Time Magazine named her one of the 100 most influential people in the world, and for good reason. With every one of her projects, Abed Shenoy adheres to an important principle. She tells stories that matter. As a filmmaker, she practices a fierce commitment to stories that help the potential to change women's lives for the better. Any creative work is, at its best, a good story. And in turn, any good story, at its best, captures a piece of the human experience. When this is done effectively enough, that story has the power to bring people together and to enact meaningful change. Abed Shenoy's work embodies this, and it's no wonder that she has so many first to her name. Besides being the first woman to win two Oscars by the age of 37, she is also the first person in Pakistani origin to win any Academy Award, the first artist to co-chair the World Economic Forum, and she's now set to be the first woman and person of color to ever direct a Star Wars film. Just like Diane Von Furstenberg and the legacy she created in the fashion world, Abed Shenoy is a trailblazing storyteller in the film industry. And as Hollywood lifts her up, the result of years of dedicated work, she is bringing women and their stories up with her. Now, back to the interview. - We only have a glimpse. We talk about Peale of the Onion. This is just one element of this compressed storytelling that tells so much. I think many people might be surprised when we look across your body of work. It seems like a lead, but it seems it's also a kind of a logical trajectory. Well, on the one hand, telling the story of D.M.R. Furstenberg, very glamorous, complicated life, but then you've told the stories of marginalized communities in Pakistan and women who have risen above their personal circumstances to highlight issues such as gender inequality, honor killings, asset attacks, and you're just women's rights in general. Of course, you won two Academy Awards, one for saving face and a girl at the river. And you really told beyond that, challenging stories in war zones like children of the Taliban, and you've really been at the front lines of trauma and injustice. So during this process, I read you've been threatened and harassed at times. So how do you overcome your own fears and find the courage to ask those important questions and tell the important stories that are not often told? When I was young, I think empathy and the fact that I wanted to create characters that tell the stories of people who had been on hero's journeys and who had been faced with extraordinary circumstances, that is something that has always driven me. So the spine of the body of my work has been about the hero's journeys. And sometimes when you are telling stories and holding up a mirror, there are reverberations that take place. And I think that for me, am I creating or am I bringing to screen the stories of people who will inspire others? Move others. Think about other people in a different light. If I feel like I've been able to do that, then I think the price to tell those stories is worth it. And of course, you've done more than just inspire because you've actually helped influence the outlining of honor, killings and Pakistan. Just tell us about that. I mean, to create real legislative change, how many filmmakers can say that they've done that? They've maybe created a mood, but they haven't been that influential. Well, I think that I realized very young and very early on in my career that film and cinema does more than just inform and inspire and entertain. It can move people into action, whether it's a personal action or whether it's a collective action. And the first time I realized that was in 2006 when I did a film in the Philippines, which was about women who did not have access to contraceptives and were being forced into a life of constant pregnancies. And the organization that I was profiling as part of that film used the film to lobby the local government to rethink its decisions. And suddenly my film went from just being a film to becoming something bigger than that. And that's when I realized that there could be certain films that I create that could impact the lives of other people. And the next time that happened was in 2008, when I did a film about Iraqi refugees and the film that we created helped a number of the translators with the British Army, Geresilum, those who had been abandoned Geresilum in the UK and helped a number of other people get asylum in Canada. And so began to see these little droplets of change in these little spools of change that were taking place. And when the time came for a girl in the river, there was, I created a film in 2015 that was about a young girl who had been shot by her father and her uncle because she had decided to get married on her own free will. And they left her to die in a gunny sack in the river and she survived. And Saba's story was deeply inspiring because she wanted to send her father and her uncle to jail. And in the end, she forgave them using a lacuna in the law that allowed for forgiveness. And when it was nominated for an Academy Award, we wrote a letter to the Prime Minister of Pakistan and we used the film to educate and inform the government about the impact of the lacuna and the law and how it was being misused. And the film played a role in closing that and changing the law, which ensured that men who killed women in the name of honour would go to prison. And so I'm wondering what your interview process is like. You talked about having an arc going into it with Diane, but with these other documentary projects, are you finding the structure afterwards? Are you listening first? Are you saying there's things that are off camera as you understand, you get to know them? As a filmmaker, when I go into a project, I go in with a very open mind because I'm there to learn and I'm there to understand the protagonist and their struggles. But as we're filming, we begin to piece together what the story is, you know? What is the start of the story? What moves them? What are the pivotal moments in their life? And I think that we begin to put the building blocks off that. And then when we get towards the end of the filming, that's when we really realize what the arc of the story is. And oftentimes it's not the arc that we originally envisioned it was going to be. As a filmmaker, I like to be surprised. I like to think that what I came into the film with, it has changed because that's the real sort of aha moment when you're a filmmaker. - Yes. And so you mentioned that here is Joan, I do understand these documentary storytelling, it's all narrative storytelling in the end, but of course you've directed for the television series, Marvel and also for the forthcoming Star Wars. So we're talking about very structured and there's a set of expectations. So how do you bring, how do you marry that with your documentary filmmaking? - I think I'm a storyteller. And as a storyteller, you're either filming characters, or telling their stories, or you're breathing life into characters who begin to tell their stories. And as a storyteller, I've worked in many mediums. I started off as documentary filmmaker. I worked in animation. I worked in virtual reality. I worked in live action. And I think that at the heart of it all is the actors and the characters and getting them to open up and getting them to show up as the voices that you want. And I think that when you're a storyteller, your medium may change, but you're telling stories and those stories are constant in some way. You are creating worlds for people to be immersed in. And those worlds may change with the medium, but you are creating worlds. - Yes, and so, you know, we didn't talk too much about how you came to filmmaking, then you understood that was the medium that you would tell stories to you 'cause you came up as a journalist. - I was writing for newspapers when I was very young when I was like 17, 18, 19. But I became a visual storyteller when I was 21 years old. And it's been more than 14 years since I've been telling visual stories. And I think that grew out of a need to paint the words for an audience beyond the words that they were seeing on paper and how could I transport audiences to different parts of the world so that they could empathize with the characters so that they could be moved by the voices of people so that they could go on these journeys. - And so as a former journalist now, documentary and narrative filmmaker, you know, what are your reflections on the future of journalism? So we have the rollout of generative AI and with everything changing so rapidly, really, affecting every industry and every domain. - So how can we maintain and support a thriving both the state and the water reflections on AI and how that's changing the way we communicate with ourselves and our imagination? - I sort of left journalism behind more than a decade ago now. I started the Genesis as a journalist, but you know, I've really been a filmmaker and a storyteller now for the better part of the last decade. I think the world is changing very, very rapidly. And I think that AI is going to not only change the societies that we live in, it's going to change each of us inherently. I think that it's so early to tell just how much we are going to change. But I think as a filmmaker, at the heart of the craft is emotions, dialogue and drama and interpersonal relationships between people, how that's going to be impacted by AI. I have yet to see what is going to be impacted by AI in a major way is the fact that anyone is going to be able to make a film and they're going to be able to make it for very small amounts of money and they're going to be able to literally make it in their backyards. And that's going to change the nature of the film industry is going to change the nature of the way we consume films. We already have a generation that is not used to storytelling in long form. We have a generation that is coming up in the world that is used to instant gratification, that is used to reels and used to watching things that are bite sized and communicated in five minutes at best. And our real struggle as filmmakers are going to be how do we create compelling narratives, bring people into the cinema and capture their attention for 95 minutes. I think as filmmakers, we are going to struggle to do that. It is because the nature of the way people consume content has changed so dramatically in the last few years and continues to change. Yes, and I wonder, I know you're a mother. I know that you also run mentorship programs with young filmmakers and what you tell them. Again, we're entering such confusing times who have been those mentors for you who helped guide you on your path and what is your message for young people, your own children and the young filmmakers that you mentor. I think it's very early for us to see how AI is going to impact us all, especially documentary filmmakers. And so I embrace technology and I encourage everyone as filmmakers to do so. We're looking at how AI is facilitating filmmakers to tell stories, create more visual worlds. And I think that right now we're in the play phase of AI where there's a lot of new tools and you're playing in a sandbox with them to see how these tools will develop. I don't think that AI has developed to the extent that it is in some way dramatically changing the film industry as the minute that we speak in the next two years, it will. And we have yet to see how it will. There are so many filmmakers who are working on creating films that may have multiple endings that the algorithms may change as you're watching those films. Two people who go at separate timings into the cinema may not end up watching the same ending of a film. AI could change the way we tell stories in so many ways, but as someone who creates films, I always experiment and then I see what it is that I'd like to take from that technology as I move forward. - Yes, I didn't mean to focus just on AI, but exactly, without the filter of technology, how do you identify the stories that are important to you or how do you say what drives Diane van Verstenberg or how do you find that core, that essence? And how do you pass that out to your people? - For me, I'm always looking for stories that move me and I'm looking for protagonists that are compelling storytellers. And I think that you may have a fantastic story, but if your protagonist is not a compelling story to tell it, it's very hard to tell that story. And so that's what I'm looking for when I begin to think about my stories. And so I'm wondering how the faith you are raised to, your Muslim faith, how does influence the stories you choose to tell, the stories you feel are important to tell and how it's influenced your worldview. I think I move to tell stories about people and places. The large body of my work has been about women and children and it's been about war zones and it's been about telling stories about marginalized communities. And I think those are the stories that have really been at the heart of all the films that I've created. - Yes. And of course, climate change disproportionately affects the global south. Women and children causing climate migration, conflicts over water and other resources. And I believe these stories are also an important part of the movies you make at SFC Films. - And my production company, SOC Films, that works out of Pakistan has created more than 15 films, short films about climate change on the region and created a book for children to talk about climate change heroes. Pakistan is one of the top 10 countries in the world most affected by climate change. And so at the heart of everything that I do, climate change matters greatly to me because I have a personal connection to it. - Perhaps in closing, then you can share some of your reflections on the beauty and wonder of the natural world and how it influences your creative process. And as you think about the future, what you would like young people to know, preserve, and remember. - I love to hike and I seek out mountains and quiet places where one can be in solitude with nature. And I think that in the desire to expand and consume, we have really shaken the core of that connection that we have with Mother Earth. And I think that it's incumbent upon us to make sure that our children's generation and their children's generation have that same connection where they can be in parts of the world or where Mother Nature has been left to be in the state that it's meant to be in. I think the overconsumption of the world that we live in and the overconsumption that has been pushed on to us, we need to change the way we interact with that consumption because that directly impacts the way we connect with Mother Earth. And so in my own life, I've seen that my children and I have many conversations about whether we need something or we want something and our need and our want and how that impacts the world that we live in. - Yes, indeed. So thank you, Sharmin Obich and Noi, for your courageous storytelling that creates impact, social and legislative change for your humanistic, storytelling, advocating for us to question the status quo, inequality, and imagine a better future for all humans and all animal kind. We all live on one planet, we call home. Thank you for adding your voice to one planet podcast and the creative process. - Thank you so much for having me. - The Creative Process Podcast is supported by the Jan Michalski Foundation. This interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate interview producer and associate text editor on this episode was Sophia Rieser. The creative process is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Katie Foster. Wintertime was composed by Nicholas and Adolas and performed by the Athenian trio. We hope you've enjoyed listening to this podcast. If you'd like to get involved with our creative community exhibitions, podcasts, or submit your creative works for review, just drop us a line at team@creativeprocess.info. Thanks for listening. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (dramatic music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
