It's the discussion that never stops on #HeatTwitter, so Ethan Skolnick and Brady Hawk attempt to get away from the anger and add some context and nuance. Should Tyler Herro, still out with a foot injury, be guaranteed a starting spot upon his eventual return? Or do the statistics and team record suggest that Duncan Robinson has earned that role? And, finally, is there any way to start them together?
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Actually, Dallas is first. The news came down today that neither Kevin Love nor Tyler Grell make trip. Love was not a surprise. I spoke to him before the game yesterday and he told me that he's still sore, making progress, he's close, but not quite ready. We didn't hear specifically from Tyler, but now this is another lengthy absence for Hero. This time, it is the foot, and of course, that's leading to more conversation about what the starting backwards should be when it is that Tyler finally returns because the heat are playing well without him again. And one guy in particular is playing well, and that's Duncan Robinson. And so Brady and I are going to try to have a nuanced, thoughtful discussion on a topic that has everybody all riled up because it's the most toxic topic. Would you agree with it on that, Brady? Is this the most toxic heat topic this season? Oh, and I understand. You better claim one side. You can not be middle ground, even though I feel like I'm pretty middle ground on it. You better lean one way. Right, and neither of us really do. So we're going to actually try to work through this together. Brady's going to handle more of the stats in the basketball part of this, although I'll bring some of it. And I am going to bring some of the other factors that are involved because I'll just state this from the beginning. I have said all along that I expect the Tyler hero to retain his starting job, no matter what. I still think he's going to retain his starting job. The question is whether he should. And these are really two different questions. What the heat will do and what they should do. So we're going to try to work through this with the understanding that we're now at the point where we're under 20 games left in the regular season. The hero. Bam Butler combination is still under 500 this season on a team that's nine games over 500. So I do think at the very least, this is legitimate conversation to have to ask the question, is there enough time at this stage to get Tyler back in to the starting lineup, make adjustments to what they've been doing recently. And win and feel confident about the direction that they're going going into the playoffs. So I waited as long as I could on this because I kept saying Tyler's going to start when he comes back, but we're getting closer to the end point here. We're in the middle of March almost and I don't know when he's coming back and I don't know what they're going to look like when he does and other guys have emerged in his absence. And not that this is going to affect it, but they've added a couple of guards and Delon Wright and now Patty Mills, Josh Richardson out for the season with a separated shoulder so some things have changed. But what hasn't changed is that Tyler hero is the two attack about low of the Miami Heat. He's by far the most polarizing figure. So we're going to touch on it with Tyler, but Brady, we're also going to touch it in the context of the total backward because this is not an either or. And the way I'm just going to throw this poll out here today because this will tell you kind of where he fans are and then let's get into some of the getting the optics and, and what goes into this decision making here. I pulled this a couple hours ago. It's already got 1500 votes. These polls don't typically get 1500 votes in an hour. Okay, so this is what has on everybody's mind. What should the heats backward be when all are healthy. Rosier hero Rosier Robinson hero Robinson or something else. What do you think is leading? Roughly don't get in Terry 61% Okay, that feels right. 60 61% so roughly what eight to 900 of the 13 1400 votes. So far have gone this way. This is an unscientific poll, but we go to heat Twitter. This is where the most passionate he fans are most polarized passionate he fans are and they are in favor of Rosier Robinson at 61%. What do you think is second? Hero Duncan. No. Hero Rosier. Okay. So that's a 22%. Hero and Robinson is at 15%. So and then something else is a 2% and then some in the comments underneath mentioned making Caleb a starting guard. Which, you know, again, we talk position lists. I mean, Caleb could be a guard. He could be a forward. He could be virtually anything. I don't want to say he's not going to be a center with Spope, but you never know. So essentially 37% what hero to start when he's back. Okay, if you combine hero Robinson and hero Rosier, which are the two most likely situations. This is a guy who's averaging 20 points this season, who has improved various aspects of his game over the course of his time in Miami, who signed a relatively lucrative contract. Who the Miami he clearly value because they've only offered him up or so they say for two players who are top 75 all time, one of them is probably top 25 all time in Kevin Durant. And who they were frustrated that his value was not perceived to be higher by the blazers by the media and by other teams this off season. So the fact that 61% or more don't want him to start is newsworthy. And a lot of this is because of frustrations with particularly parts of his game, particularly the efficiency. Some of it is related to fit, and some of it is related to the fact that he was a really, really good six man. And so there's a feeling that if he goes back to that to running the bench, that it will help the heat because they had their best regular season record the year that he was the six man. Brady, I'm going to get into the optics of this and everything that goes into it, but I just from your perspective, where do you stand on the debate in the macro? Like overall, like. So, I understand why there's so much of a want for Duncan to start. It makes sense for this time of season when Jimmy's playing hit this brand of basketball when he has the ball in his hands a lot more. And you have a guy that plays mostly off ball and kind of bail you out of certain positions. But he also is now is seen an uptick on the ball and he's been really good at it. Like I put out a stat today where like, there's like 59 players that have taken 100 plus pull up threes. One of those players is shooting 44%. No players shooting 45% and Duncan shooting 46%. 46% on pull up three. So it's like, you have this guy that is supposed to be this off ball guy that doesn't get in the way of your offense and he's become this guy that you that can kind of be a trigger for your offense. So when you have a guy that is a rhythm player that you kind of is hot and cold at times that can play that style and he's hot right now. I think there's just a want that he needs to be on the floor and he needs to play. I guess start when they're kind of playing. Well, the issue I have with it. Ethan is like, I think on the to play devil's advocate a little bit. This idea that they just went on this run this this when they turned it around after losing streak because Duncan is starting is like totally false. Like that we cannot just play this game where it's like they've just played better since this point like they started playing better after losing streak and I think they went seven and two before Tyler got injured and one of the losses was the one game that Tyler didn't play. So after the seven game losing streak, they went seven and one with Tyler started. So they started playing good basketball before that point like way before Tyler went down. But the issue is now to your point is the availability factor and I think that's the part that's warranted. Like you get to a point where there's just this thought process of the fact that you know what happened in the past and now it's getting back to the playoff time and you're still one of the lineups we're talking about. Ethan is the I brought it up to you before we started was the rosier Tyler Jimmy yo which ban like that lineup is the one we're kind of debating is it Duncan or Tyler in this instance. That lineup that I just said didn't has not played a minute. They've not played a minute this year or that's because yo which wasn't playing when they were running the Tyler Terry lineups. But we just haven't seen it so it's like it's just funny that we're at this point but I think the macro is that it is warranted because Duncan is playing really good basketball and you know we did a podcast recently. About closing lineups and I think it's also weren't to the fact that you know you're talking and having these discussions that Duncan could be a closer like that's just how good he's been. But let me just say one thing really quickly is that's like. If let's just say that the last two or three games Duncan was kind of a no show. Or let's just say the last two games. This wouldn't even be a discussion probably like if Duncan just had to to if he games it would be like okay Tyler's gonna come back and have a starting lineup. But it's just like now because Duncan kind of had another masterful kind of couple games and he's in this rhythm right now that this discussion we're having so. A little bit of it is recency bias like a little bit of it but I think a little bit it still needs to be said that they're you know they're in a rhythm like they have Duncan in this spot. As you say there's noise in all these numbers right because there's so many variables like who's in who's out who are they playing. You know what's the tone of the team at the time. But there is all this backstory and part of the backstory is they made a run to the finals last year. With Tyler here and not playing. And I've made the case that they could have used him against Denver. But I've also made the case that it probably made them easier at times for them to get to the finals because things were streamlined for them. They got to the playoffs and it was give the ball to Jimmy and get the hell out of the way and who needs to get out of the way the most. Somebody who has high usage. And so Jimmy went when Tyler wasn't there. And it worked up until they got to the finals when Jimmy was hobbled a little bit tired and they could have used someone who could make some mid-range shots and some floaters and given them an additional scoring option. And so again there's context to all of this but you mentioned the Duncan factor and we're going to get more into the Tyler thing specifically. But I do think we need to mention it as it relates to Duncan and how it affects his play because we're constantly talking about how this affects Tyler right. Well Tyler Tyler stated in a question that I asked back in 2022 after the 2022 season. I believe it was in early June Greg it was retweeted out today because people found the tweet okay where I asked him about starting and he had an answer ready for the question he wasn't offended by the question he wanted to say it. Said I believe I've earned the right to be a starter. He made that declaration after winning six-man year after all he won the biggest award you can win as a reserve right. So he believed that it was it was his time to be a starter and his time to get a contract and he got both okay. And we always talk about it like would he accept this would they be able to talk to him the way that's a spousher talk to dragons or talk to Wade or talk to others or pop talk to manner right. We never talk about it like how it affects Duncan. And the numbers are stark in terms of the difference in Duncan's play when he starts and when he comes off the bench. You know they are first thing for the team they're eighteen and six when Duncan starts their nineteen and seventeen when Tyler starts. So they're much better when Duncan starts now some of that is starting together obviously the numbers don't add up exactly right because they started some games together. But eighteen and six I mean that's it's a in the macro it's a hard number to argue with. And then if you look at Duncan splits as a starter this year twenty four games. Forty nine percent overall forty six percent from three sixteen three and four his numbers again adjusted can play more minutes as a starter. Thirty two games off the bench he's shooting forty two percent overall and thirty six percent from three he is an elite elite elite shooter as a starter. He's pretty good as a result that's what the numbers say this year and so I think as we move forward and talk about Tyler and how it affects him and then we'll get into the terrozier part of this. I do think you got to consider do you lose some of Duncan's productivity not starting him. And that's where I've started to come around on this a little bit that and the fact that Tyler has not been around to work through the kinks that they've had to deal with this season. With him Jimmy and Bam where it has not been a perfect fit no matter how spell stress staggered it or any of the rest of that stuff and we've talked about the different staggering and taking Jimmy out and bring Tyler in and all the rest is the one thing we know worked. Was a couple seasons ago when Tyler was running the bench we know that worked okay and we're going to get into some of the metrics. Of what it looked like and kind of what Tyler's numbers have been with various players and who brought them down and who didn't bring them down. In recent years, but I do I do want to mention the Duncan part because you're getting a lesser Duncan when he comes off the bench. You just are and it's and we always talk about okay how is Duncan affecting the other players well how is the bench role affecting Duncan. And there does seem to be either more 10 maybe it takes him longer to get going or he's more tentative or maybe there's less confidence or whatever but it's having and it does have an impact on him. So we're going to get into that. All right after the break though I want to get into the Tyler part of it specifically with Brady and then we'll talk about the rosier component. Do want to mention another great sponsor the five reasons sports network I was just with Michael today up in Boca Raton at his new warehouse up there water clean up a Florida you can find him at WCU FL.com. WCU FL.com water clean up a Florida is your one stop shop leak detection that's what he was focusing on when I was talking today said to let everybody know get your place checked out before there's a problem. Yes he can clean it up after the fact mold all that stuff but insurance companies don't always take care of you. So reach out to a Michael Robert his entire team up there huge Miami sports fans as well and he's beating me in our fantasy basketball league this year so check it out water clean up a Florida WCU FL.com if you've got the schmutz they've got the guts. All right next part of this we're going to get more into the Tyler hero specifics. All right back on five on the floor Ethan here with Brady let me ask you a very simple question that's very loaded. Who's a better basketball player right now. Tyler here I don't care Robinson. Okay let's tell you that's this is kind of the point I think it's at with like the recency bias of stuff like there's still things that Tyler brings to the table that pushes them over the top against certain matchups like the real conversation isn't like who should start it's like who's going to or let's just say who should start against certain teams because like that's when I think the case is to be made like I think there's certain matchups that benefit the both of them. So that's kind of but Tyler's Tyler still gets they are you feeling differently like is no I don't actually I think in a vacuum I think Tyler here was still a better. I are upside player then Duncan Robinson that's what I'll say I think that the peak of where Tyler can get to maybe it's age bias on my part fact that Tyler still just 24 years old and I feel like there's more growth to be had there or it's the play making that we've seen there are some areas of Tyler's game that I wish. Which show more growth and the one thing that I'm going to point to and you and I talked about it before the season it's not defense I think they're the limitations on defense we understand okay and I think that they have enough good defensive players on this team as long as Tyler is competing off the ball I think they're fine. It's getting to the line that that's the biggest thing with me with Tyler because he is a different kind of player than Duncan and Duncan does create more gravity than Tyler does. And so if Tyler is going to be taking the ball in the basket. He's got to be getting some foul calls it just can't be that he's getting swatted all the time and that's kind of what was happening this year and and you look at the true shooting percentage which a lot of people point to. That's largely the result of the lack of free throw taps. Because he's a good free throw shooter that's not a problem he's very good free throw shooter obviously. But he doesn't get there enough and for for guards like him he gets there pretty much less than anybody else and some of that is is you know on his own physical limitations and some of it is on the officials not giving him advantage of the doubt. But either way the numbers of the numbers and that's kind of where I'm coming to on this like I'm trying to take the emotion out of this and I'm going to read something here on the air in a second that gets into the emotion of all of this argument. I'm trying to take the emotion out and say look I thought Tyler would be six man of the year I said that before the season when he was. I repeatedly said that I don't think Tyler's injuries are his fault like diving for a loose ball and breaking your hand or stepping on a foot which is something Jimmy's done that's not Tyler's fault. I'm just trying to get into the practicality of the situation here the practicality of the situation is their numbers are better when Duncan starts. They win more when Duncan starts. Other players elevate more playing with Duncan and there are certain adjustments that need to be made while playing with Tyler that don't need to be made while being while playing with Duncan and then the final thing on it is and again I haven't created my decision on the ship but I'm talking about my thought process. The biggest thing is just availability like I don't blame Tyler for not being available. But availability is you know like like Bill Parcel says like you can't make the team from the tub right like you you he has to be out there to see what this looks like and we're running out of time. That's why my perspective on this is changed like there's enough of a sample size with what they look like with Duncan as a starter and there's enough time that's run out on this season that I think it's finally time to have a conversation that I have not been wanting to have for the past couple of months because I just said Tyler's gonna be a starter. I'm not gonna read the Twitter handles here but I said this one to you when we took a brief break. Okay. And this is what I'm talking about the polarization of this topic. So I post this poll so someone tweets and this is part of the anti Tyler agenda. Okay. How many times do people have to keep tweeting the stats with Duncan versus Tyler as a starter before it's accepted the argument to go to Tyler is always rooted in the contract or confidence basically optics. No one ever gives a basketball reason his numbers are identical to his six man season two. Then whenever someone who's anti Tyler jumps in then we get the other side immediately it's like I don't know what it is it's like a bat signal or something like that right. Okay, it's a boy wonder signal. So here's a response basketball reason number one he's our best shooter. Do you agree with that by the way. Brady. That's a tough question. That is shout out to Alex but that is a tough question. Why are you always asking me the tough questions. Okay go ahead. I'm sorry. I mean, right now as we're speaking and my token like it don't get probably the better shooter right now right. I think again it depends on what kind of a shooter we're talking about. I think if Tyler devoted himself to just being a catch and shoot player I think he could shoot at a level that Duncan does. It's definitely different coverages to that feed into it. Yes, like Duncan gets attention but it's different attention like it's it's definitely different gravity. Well, let's put it this way. Delon Wright, right. And who we've had on the podcast and talked to us about this. Like Atlanta I guess was Nate was the coach at the time. Nate McMillan didn't tell Delon Wright go sick Duncan Robinson during that playoff series he said go get Tyler here right. Yeah. So there is a different level it's a different type of respect because Duncan gets a different type of respect which is the gravity and all that stuff but as far as you know blitzing blitzing a guy and trying to get him off his game. There's more of that done to Tyler than there is done to talk done to Duncan. In fact, Tyler and I talked about that when we talked about getting Terry and he talked about liking playing with Terry and we got to get into Terry here too. But he said that so far and this was when Tyler was playing when before Terry got hurt also. When he said other teams are putting their best perimeter defender on me right now but at some point that will change and that will free me up because he said teams are going to have to respect Terry. But the reality is teams do put their best perimeter defender on Tyler most of the time. They don't necessarily play Duncan quite that way so I think again they're played differently and there needs to be some nuance here. Number two this is again back to the tweet of the Tyler defender number two defenses have to give him more attention and Duncan again we just discussed that it kind of works both ways. Three he leads the team in clutch scoring. I'll say this that's factually incorrect this year that that has been true at times during Tyler's tenure. But actually Tyler has of their 10 players who played the most minutes this season in the fourth quarter Tyler has by far the worst shooting percentages. So that has not been and again that's fourth quarter nuance not necessarily just the last six minutes but Duncan has the best by the way. So that's just again I'm trying to deal with facts here that's just not facts. Would you agree that he's a better clutch player than Duncan? Yeah I would say that I mean that's why I mean that's why I think this is objective a little bit because when we did our closing lineup thing like I have Tyler in the closing line up and you had Duncan so it's like some of this is situation and everything but in terms of clutch like I don't mean to like pull out like negative plays but like the big conversation. A few years ago in that one game seven here in Miami against Boston was those two looks that Duncan had where a lot of the conversation on social media was like oh Tyler Tyler hits those like Tyler loves those shots like in that context specifically like I don't know I do I would I mean I would lean Tyler excuse me. Right and then this guy says number four and this is one of those there's about five on Twitter if you say anything it's even remotely even if it's just statistically based remotely critical of Tyler they like they jump on you immediately. Number four leads in game winners is that still true I would and that I don't know for sure he's certainly up there there's no question about that Jimmy certainly had his share BAM has had his share too. And again what are we calling a game winner we just calling it a buzzer beater or we calling it like sort of a kill shot like Duncan I thought had the kill shot in the last game that three that he made he's made a bunch of those over the years Max made a bunch of those when he was here I don't but feels like Tyler's made a bunch as well maybe not as much as he did early in his heat tenure but he's made a bunch I don't know how to empirically classify game winners. And then five leads and three pointers in the last three minutes I would have to look that up I can't speak to it. Okay let me give you the response here this is from the anti Tyler and again these folks are just as out there on the other side okay it's just we're debunking a Twitter conversation right now. No we are but I but this is the debate like this is going on in a daily basis I don't know if it's going on with a casual heat fan but this is really all that heat Twitter now that you know which is in the starting lineup. Like now that we've settled that argument like and again suppose answer to be about the you know which bad connection like I'm convinced you know which is never coming out of the starting lineup now. You know it feels like this is the only thing left honestly okay so here we go this is from the anti he is not capital letters are best shooter he takes 18 shots to give you 20 points. That gets back to my what I was saying where it's a free throw shooting it's not that he's inefficient overall and effective field of percentage because the three point percentage is high which props that up that's good but he doesn't make free throws but he doesn't get free throws and that's why sometimes you know it's again a lot of shots to get a certain number of points. This person says that is not efficient it's why they never miss him when he's out. Do you agree they never miss him when he's out. I mean they miss Tyler against Denver. So I don't know about never but I mean. The track record is that they have gone on runs without him because Jimmy just has the ball in his hands that much more that it's not really a Tyler vs Duncan thing it's more of a Tyler. Tyler vs Jimmy thing like it's like him having the ball more but I mean like I said I do think there's certain matchups that they're going to need Tyler and if they give one example obviously it was Denver last year. Okay and then the next part of this Duncan Caleb Hakez all play better without him when they get the ball more. Now you were mentioning Jimmy specifically do you think that also applies to the three those are really the heats three core role players right or the love Duncan Caleb and Hakez do you think they all play better without him because they get the ball. I would say so I mean anybody when their usage goes up like that I would say has a better chance of it like like Jaime specifically is the one that always sticks out to me that he kind of gets a little bit more reps in the mid post gets a little bit more opportunity on the ball. Duncan if Tyler's not playing obviously starting so he's getting up more shots and Caleb I'm not totally sure on I feel like Caleb plays his role no matter what. Next to Tyler I feel like he actually plays well with Tyler Caleb does but don't get it I would agree with. Okay and then his shooting percentage is currently the lowest since his rookie year that is empirically true and again that's the free throw shooting or the free throw attempts. I'm not going to get into the rest is because this literally just keeps going it's just keeps going debating the same things that you and I are trying to settle here in maybe a more nuanced fashion but this plays into all of it and then we'll talk Terry. Which is that there is the basketball part of this and then there's the optics part of this okay. And there are a few things that go into say optics okay one of which is how it looks within your team how it looks to the players involved and then how it looks to the rest of the league. And the heat do need to weigh that stuff like that matters like you're trying to win a championship. But that is relevant okay it is relevant whether or not and I know Barry speculated on this today he wasn't speaking from information but how it would affect Tyler to go to the bench after he has earned a starting job. And the 20 point score in this league and improved in a variety of ways over his you know almost five seasons with the team. That matters but like I said it also matters that Duncan does in place while coming off the bench. The value part of it. All right. If you are looking to make a move in the future whether or not it is to try to get a star it seems like that ship has sailed okay. For whatever reason the little thing the the draft thing I don't know what you can include Tyler with to get a star level third guy I think it's more likely at this point. That Tyler if he was to be moved would be moved for pieces. Sort of like you know the heat have done before we talked about moving Eddie Jones you know he was the third guy with a shack weight build and moving him and pretty advanced walker and others in that trade which was of. A multitude of trades and free agent signings at once in one off season. So could you get more size could you use Tyler's contract to do that could you bring an additional pick that could be used for something else. If you're putting him back on the bench after he's been a starter could that deflate his value around the league perhaps a little bit I think it's something to consider. I don't think it should be the major thing. But but I do think that those things overall matter but I think the biggest thing that matters at this point again is whether or not the team is being elevated by the positions that people are. The positions that people are being put into. And I can just tell you that like air sports was not going to be. He's he knows the numbers like everybody's like this does he know that the team plays better with Duncan and the starting lineup. Yes. I think he's fully aware of that like you know but he also told me once that seventy five percent of his job is managing the locker room managing personalities managing egos okay so then. If that's the case then I do think that a decision like this if it was to be Duncan over Tyler. I do think that stuff matters and so I do think that's something that they have to weigh in your view which matters more. I'm on the side really. That like the value part you mentioned I don't know if that truly matters in my opinion terms of making that decision because I'm sorry Eric's bullshit is not thinking about his trade value when it comes down to playoff time like he's going to play off time. Like he's going to play who he wants to play and who he thinks going to win him a playoff game. Like I just don't think they're going to make their decision based off that and yeah like while he definitely knows the numbers definitely can he said before like every lineup looks better with Duncan. Like he literally said that about like basically like that's why I think to not destroy off but like the one case for Duncan is like. Like forgetting the numbers for getting all that like I feel like he plays better with Jimmy specifically which is why I think that like that is what leads everybody pointing to this because everybody is everything is based around Jimmy at all times and I think everybody just realizes that he just does play better with Jimmy it seems like. But what matters more I mean I'm just kind of on the point where it's like. I really do feel like if Eric's bullshit thinks that Duncan Robinson should start over Tyler hero he would he'll start him over Tyler here. Like he's not like afraid that Tyler's value is going to drop or afraid that he's going to like have to have a tough conversation like I really like I'm not really on that. He had the conversation with drug itch I mean he had the conversation with Dwayne and I'm glad you use the word afraid here because I see that creep in the social media sometimes when it comes to smoke. Eric Spolstra of all coaches in the NBA with the exception of Greg Popovich has the least to be afraid of. He decided to eat your contract. Okay, he has the total backing this is like having your CD backed by the US government. He has the total backing of the organization he has had it since the very beginning LeBron James tried to get him fired and Pat said no. So Eric Spolstra is not afraid to make a tough decision the fact that he would weigh the human element of this does not make him afraid to make the decision. I want to clarify that because I have seen some of that creeping in here suppose afraid to have to talk with Tyler. No, he's not. He had the talks with LeBron. He went at Jimmy during a game Jimmy Butler okay they were going at it and so like relished that situation not afraid to have a conversation with Tyler here. But I do think you weigh how it affects your locker room how it affects the players involved. And I think to a degree you weigh the future although I agree with you I don't think that's the major thing. But again he has the full backing okay it's like the full credit and authority in the United States okay he's he's fine okay he's a made man in Miami he's not afraid. Of benching someone if he has to. I just I think that the numbers are pointing a certain direction here that have gotten harder to ignore. But with that being said you said a couple things there and I want to go back through some of the numbers not just now but also the big three okay. Last year Jimmy and Duncan were a minus 4.1 together. Jimmy and Tyler were a plus 4.7. So yes this year. It looks a lot better with Jimmy and Duncan. Last year didn't last year it looked better with Jimmy and Tyler or at least the numbers though with Jimmy and Duncan last year. It was and Duncan didn't play particularly well and was coming off an injury and then got benched again. But I just want to clarify that. The problem with their numbers last year was not Tyler it was Max. Okay Max tanked all their numbers. And again I'm a big Max fan but I mean you look at I mean all Trusas numbers with everybody on the team were horrible. They were all bad like across the board. You know the other guy that did the other the other two man combination that was bad last season. The one we love so much. Bam and Duncan minus 5.3. So last year when Duncan wasn't playing well or wasn't playing consistently. Things didn't look good. Things looked better this year because of the way that Duncan has played. So I just want to say sometimes this stuff changes a little bit. Okay. And if you go back two seasons ago. 2122. The Struce numbers with everybody were great. Struce and Tyler even were plus 12.5. When Tyler was coming off the bench. Okay. Bam and Tyler were plus 10.5. Two years ago their numbers this year together have not been particularly good. Butler and here of that year were plus 5.7 etc. Jimmy and Duncan that year were plus 5.1. So even that year where Duncan was playing better but there's numbers were better a slightly better with Duncan. Excuse me with Tyler than they were with Duncan. And the one other thing I just want to go back to here is if you go back to the big three era and I had these conversations was slow during that period of time. LeBron and Dwayne had really good numbers together for the first three years. Okay. 10 11 they were plus 12.1. 11 12 they were plus 13.6. Okay. Next year they were plus and the year that they won 66 games everybody's numbers were up except our guy Norris. Unfortunately. There was some. I remember Tom Haverster writing a bunch of columns about that. The only negative numbers were there but. LeBron and Wade were plus 14.4. Which was not great for a team that was elite. Bosch and Bronn plus 9.9. Bosch and Wade numbers were also better than Wade and Bronn. And I had the conversation with Spo late that year and he said you know he said if I follow the analytics if I just follow the. He said I see them if I just follow the analytics. I would the way that LeBron and Dwayne were playing together in the playoffs. I wouldn't have played them together much at all. But they're LeBron James and Dwayne Wade. And I'm going to play them. And I'm not saying the Tyler hero is either of those guys okay but what I'm saying is that sometimes Brady. He's going to lean. Towards the feel of his team and towards getting who he thinks. Are the best players on the floor even if the fits. As suggested by the numbers may not be as good at that point in time. Do you think he should lean more on feel or do you think he should lean more on. This is what the sheet says. You can't play these guys together as much make sure you get dunking out with this guy and dunking out with that guy and dunking out with this guy. Spo started the season at a press conference and he said. Talking about like the rest of the league getting better and said well it's a good thing the league. The championship isn't one on paper. And it's like that's almost the way this is viewed. Like he's not looking at this anything on paper. Like they are just going to continue to kind of push through. So I do think it is feel. I think it's based on a lot of those type of things. Now like if there was a run before the playoffs or like if Tyler was a return. And things looked ugly and it was getting in the way of Jimmy and he was shooting horribly. Then it's time for Spoto evaluated and probably go to it. But I think the feel for him right now is that when Tyler's healthy he's going to get back into that starting lineup. Especially because even if even if he wanted to start dunking. You have to start Tyler just to get these reps with that lineup because they just don't like it. That literally what I started when I said earlier was the fact that that lineup that we're talking about is not played a minute with Yo Vic and Terry and Jimmy and Ben. So you almost need to just play him there just to try to figure out how things are going to look. Even in let's just say hypothetically he was coming off the bench. He's still going to have to play with some of these guys. And the fact that we're doing all stole podcasts on like starting lineups and everything. What I feel like and I say every time is like it really to me personally like the starting lineup thing really doesn't matter that much. Like I understand like the numbers with dunking starting versus Tyler starting. But it really comes down to Spo mastering his rotations. And like the dunking Jimmy combo matters to me more than dunking starting. Like he just has to figure out combos that work and dunking and Jimmy. I've looked really good which is funny considering the fact that I feel like Jimmy is always screaming at dunking. There was that thing where we used to say that Jimmy hated over something. But like they legitimately play really well off each other. And part of it is because dunking just gets out the way. Don't get just gets away from him and lets Jimmy do things and lets him yell at him so it just works. This is post jail and Brown dunking too. And I noticed in the locker room yesterday there is better rapport between the two of them this year. I've noticed that it feels like the joking is a little bit more lighthearted than before from Jimmy to dunking it felt a little mean spirited. Like even the thing the one we always point to is when dunking had a great game and he kind of he appraised Max instead. And it didn't feel like the usual trolling. It felt like he wanted Max to play more. And we know Max did play more and Max took Duncan's role. And I understood when I looked back at the numbers from last year. I'll just read this one and then we're going to quickly talk about Terry before we close here. Duncan and Max last year were a minus fifteen point five. Well no one per hundred possessions. No wonder Spaux told me that he decided he can only play one. And that's when he was going to go back to Duncan. But then Duncan got hurt again and then he stuck with Max. I want to close on Rosier. I do want to mention one more sponsor. Real quick better edge. Use code five RSN. We've mentioned trying to play props in the state of Florida. Better edge. You still can. It's legal. It's peer to peer. So that means you can get your twenty dollars to play by just going to better edge.com. Use code five reasons. Which is the number five with reasons or five RSN. You get twenty dollars to play. You can also participate in all our competitions. All right. We've kind of left one thing out here. Brady, give me the argument for why they can't just play together. And the starting line up. I mean number. I mean the defensive side of things I think is where you look. Not that Terry is some ball stopper. But I think it's just a different element of speed that he gives you. That you think of. You could probably say the Tyler Duncan case is to be made if it's a playoff move and they move. Nico back to the bench. Like if they were to start a would or Caleb or something like that. Like it feels like it's more likely but it's more traditional to go with Terry and Nico. Like it feels right. So I mean that's the case to be made. I mean to be honest. Would would the case be that because everybody just thinks of Tyler as this bench player and it's got to come off the bench and just kill. Second units. Isn't Terry more built for that? Like when I think about it on paper. Oh yeah. Of killing other second units and playing the style that we're discussing. That's more Terry's game and Tyler's game to me. But. I mean I think I think a benchcore of rosier Martin. Pakez and love. Would be really interesting. You know again 15% of the people polled here. And now we're over 2000 votes have here a Robinson together. As their preference. They have made progress. There's no question. They play better together. I think you've mentioned what the X factor is here. Which is Jovitch. And I went through Jovitch's numbers today. The duo. He's good with everybody. Like literally except the point cards. He was not great with Lowry and he and rosier don't have good numbers together. And I think there's actually something to that. Because I think I think you know which is better with the ball in his hands. But the numbers are his number with Caleb. His number the Duncan. They are elite numbers. The numbers with Tyler are very good. But we haven't seen the Yovitch hero Robinson lineup. We haven't seen it. And you know because you know Yovitch was. Was not as much of a factor before even though now he started 20 games. This is where I come down at it and we'll give our final arguments on this. Nobody is. Going to listen to us on either side because those sides are too entrenched. Okay. I have thought all along like I said that Tyler would get his starting line starting job back when he when he came back. And that he should. I did not think we'd be pressed up into this final quarter of the season and not know when he's returning. I think he's got to get back soon. I just do. I think I think it's got to be in the next week or so. And I think if it's going to be hero rosier and a Yovitch in the starting lineup. They need two or three weeks to see what that looks like before the playoffs start. And I think if Tyler has any more of an extended absence than that and this team continues to play well. Let's say they win an OKC in Dallas. Let's say they beat Denver at home with Duncan at that point. I don't know how you can make the change. I don't. To me, Tyler, you know what would help Tyler's case and all this? Get back at least before the Denver game and do against Denver. What we thought he might do against Denver in the finals if he'd gotten back. But again, he didn't play in Denver this year. Just missed that game and we don't know when he's returning. And it's not like it's just going to be seamless because it wasn't seamless before he went out. So I'm giving it about another week to two weeks to see if he comes back. What's the foe does with Yovich? I think he'll keep him the starting lineup, how that looks with Rosier if they can all stay healthy. And if it's past that point to me, if you're rolling with Duncan, you roll with Duncan and you see what it looks like the Tyler coming off the bench. The problem I would have with that is like with him kind of, you know, he does. He does need to come back soon because they need him and they need to figure out lineups and everything like that. But the worst thing that could happen is him rushing back because he feels he needs to prove himself. And then now you're back to the no Tyler playoff thing or another injury pops up. And now it's more like it's almost like take care of it now. Duncan's in a flow. Forget all this narrative stuff that's out there. Just keep playing your game and figure out when the time comes. But I will say that every time that Tyler hero has an injury, he has to come back and prove himself. Like has there been an injury where a time where that hasn't been like, that's not the case with a lot of players. And I think that's why we talk about it being polarizing. Like, I understand it. Like we just made the cases like we just did it. But it is just wild to me that no matter what, he always has to come back and prove it to like not against other teams. Like against it like his own teammates or like the narrative or anything. Like that's just that's just who Tyler is at this stage. It's against the narrative is what it is. And those narratives are not going to go away. And he knows it. He knows it. He even said it before last year he had to prove it in the playoffs. I think what's different this year is two things have happened. Duncan has become a different beast than he was even prior to last season. And so they have a viable option. Okay. Even more viable than Max was. So I think that's part one too. And I think part two to it is that the hero Butler BAM connection has not been there. The three of together. When they have played together in what has been a sort of sadly small sample size this year. And I think those two factors. And the fact that Tyler's had another, you know, towards the end of the season injury. I think does make it a viable conversation to have at this point. And then you get into the fact that, look, Tyler here was a really good young player. It's got a really good future in the league is a great draft pick. But the greatest player in franchise history and frat sacrificed. Another guy is one of the most beloved players in franchise history, sacrificed. And so if he has to, because he's jumping on a moving train that's going the right direction too late in the season. It's just one of those things. And I, so I, like I said, I think it's at least something to discuss at this point. So I'm giving it another week or two to see how he comes back and. And, you know, if it's, if it's beyond that, then I think you, I think you roll with it with a guy who's rolling. Because to me, Duncan's been a top half of the league to guard this year as a starter. And he's been pretty damn good. All right. Thanks to Brady. We tried. We tried to cover it as best as we can. Everybody's going to have a problem with us no matter what we said on this anyway. Thanks to our sponsors, better edge, prize picks and water cleanup of Florida. We'll try to hit something less controversial next time like, well, Patty Mills got a minute. Have a good one, everybody. Thank you for listening to the fight on the floor on the fibers and sports network. After all, someone needs to listen to my dad. When you fly Southwest, we always give you our mile high heart. That's why we're giving Denver more flights than ever before. Not only do you get our low fares, but you'll always get two free bags and never pay change or cancel fees. Because we mile high heart you Denver. Book today at Southwest.com. Based on US DOT OMB scheduled daily flights from Denver starting in July, 2023 surpass all prior days as a 512-2023 for consecutive second check bags waiting size limits apply. Fair difference may apply. Failure to cancel a reservation at least 10 minutes prior to schedule departure may result in forfeited travel funds. (claps)
