The Cārvāka Podcast

Rishi Sunak Loses UK Elections

In this podcast, Kushal speaks with Charlotte Littlewood about the recently concluded elections in England. Keir Starmer has become the new British prime minister after Labour won in a historic landslide. Voters inflicted a devastating defeat on Rishi Sunak’s Conservatives after 14 turbulent years in power.

Follow Charlotte: Twitter: @CharlotteFLit

#RishiSunak #KeirStarmer #Islamism

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Duration:: 55m
Broadcast on:: 10 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Namaste, everyone, welcome to the Charoque podcast. This is your host, Coachella Mehera, all right, England just had an election and that was a lot of fun. He had a new political party coming to power and boy, did they come in power, come in power with a bang. Well, Mr. Modi wanted Char so far over here, he couldn't get the Charoque say 400 figure over here, but you have a starmer over there coming in with a landslide victory and to talk about the entire election process and the results, what's the good, what's the bad, what's the bad, I have Charlotte Littlewood, Charlotte, how are you doing? Doing very well, thank you for having me on Khushal, how are you doing? I'm good, it's been a while since you and I have spoken, so I'm looking forward to this, unfortunately when you're in India, I'm not in India, when I'm in England, you're not in England. So we could leave it perfect. That's because we're both travelling too much, we need to slow down. Yes, both of us need to slow down. So let's start over here, so to break things down, the results make it sound as if labour has swept the entire election, do you think it is a positive vote for labour, that would be my first question, or it is a multitude of issues, it's not as simple as it sounds on paper, as in you have, are they called the reform party, the reform party has risen a lot in this election, their vote share has increased and the number of seats has increased, so I'm assuming they must have eaten into a significant chunk of the Tory's vote percentage, so they came down and then you had another party, I forgot the name of the party, that they also gained some vote and the Labour vote percentage overall has not risen really compared to previous elections. So how do we analyse this then? Yes, so I think the first question is, yes, of course this is a huge success for Labour, but when you look more deeply at how Labour technically won this election, although they won two thirds of the seats, I think it was from 110 or 111, so you get a huge number of seats, they only actually had one third of the votes, so we have proportional representation in the UK, which means your percentage amount of votes doesn't necessarily mean how many seats that you have and your seats that are in Parliament and your seats number of seats is what actually causes the party to win the election, so there's a lot of deep reflection now considering how many votes they got versus how many seats, whether there needs to be electoral reform, and similarly there are a lot of votes worryingly for a new right-wing party which is led by Nigel Farage, who spearheaded Brexit essentially, and his party, although didn't get that many seats, won quite a lot of votes showing that there is a widespread support for a more hard-line party, a lot of anger towards the Conservative Party, but also some worrying potential alignment with very right-wing positions held by some of those in the Reform Party. So what would those very hard-line right-wing positions be from the Reform Party, Nigel Farage? So Nigel Farage speaks very generally when he talks about Muslim communities in the UK, he talks about them generally as being a threat, he's talked about a rise of extremism amongst young Muslims in the UK without actually particularly looking at some of the recent research which shows a strong tendency within young Muslims to feel British and proud, whilst we do have real issues with the radicalisation, and yes, you can say generally extremists on the rise, he does have a way of talking about this in a very generalist way, so when he was talking about young Muslims in particular, we have data against that for young Muslims, 18-24 year old bracket, we have research to show that they are engaging in interfaith, very tolerant about having a Hindu prime minister whilst also being passionate about their faith. So he speaks about issues that are very sensitive in a way that's inflammatory and scaremongering in order to bring greater support, that's obviously worrying considering we are an increasingly diverse country and will only continue to be increasingly diverse, and yes, we have an extremism issue and the way to tackle that is to actually support those that are involved in tackling the issue too, so if our youth potentially could be used as a way to tackle extremism, that would be more difficult if we have someone like Nadra Faraj attacking them. All right, so I don't follow Nigel Faraj, I don't listen to other than a few bits and bobs over here or there, I don't really follow the gentleman, so I don't know much about what he has said, but is his language the problem or the message the problem, what exactly is the problem there? And his general message is that the UK is going through a transformation that is against the British people, that it's losing its essential Britishness, that it's no longer the white working class Britain that he stands for. So that aligns with general populist sort of language about we're losing our culture, we're losing our heritage, and makes people feel like there is some kind of us and them and competition between different cultures in the UK, and sort of reads that culture war dynamic, which is very problematic if we're looking to try and build a more cohesive and integrated UK to have these kind of voices mainstreamed. All right, so, but what would be the equivalent of Nigel Faraj on the left then in England? Our father, so I mean, I would say our father is for the party, Green Party is more problematic in its associations with extremist organizations and its relationship with Islamists, and also our father like Jeremy Corbyn, when we had Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the Labour Party, and his relationship towards Hamas and calling them his friends and laying a wreath for those who are considered to be involved in the Munich massacre of the Israeli athletes. His behaviour and that kind of far left is very dangerous. What Nigel Faraj is doing and what Nigel Faraj represents is very problematic for cohesion and integration. It's very worrying that it is mainstreaming in the UK, but it is not supportive of linked to terrorism in the way some of our fall actors. Here one more name a lot of times, like the Workers Party and the Green Party. These two other ones I hear all the time. So in terms of threat perception, listen, I'm asking this assuming, so the baseline assumption is I don't know. So that's why I'm asking all these questions for trying to understand. So it seems like Labour has gotten rid of a lot of its extremist elements and isn't that a good thing then? It's a positive thing, right? Yeah, so following the suspension of Jeremy Corbyn, Keir Starmer banned Jeremy Corbyn from being able to run as a Labour MP. The party on Jeremy Corbyn was found to be anti-Semitic and to have infringely qualities and protection act. There was a documentary on it, there were legal cases against it, and Keir Starmer's worked very hard to root that out to the extent that is possible. Obviously, there will always be an element within Labour that aligns itself with those on with Islamists and lends itself to anti-Semitism, there will always be that, that will, labour always have to be very aware of that and quick to deal with it. But Keir Starmer has very much put that work in, removed all those that were named and evidence against them, and obviously Jeremy Corbyn had to then run as an independent, unfortunately he did win, but we do have hope that Keir Starmer's Labour will be very different when it comes to anti-Semitism, will be proactive on anti-Semitism, and other things like Hindu phobia as well. Keir Starmer has come out and said that there's no place for Hindu phobia in the UK, which is, I think, one of the very few times that we've seen that word even used by a politician other than those that they have the vote bank that requires them to use that kind of language. Keir Starmer would say that after he's won the election, actually it was just before he won the election, to say that as the leader of the Labour Party, I think it's quite important to show that he is going to take extremism and minority protection very seriously. Now this is very interesting, you told me Jeremy Corbyn's still won as an independent, then what does it say about the electoral reality that a man who clearly has extremely bigoted views when it comes to his views against two communities in general, because that guy and his career I have followed from the left, and he has extremely anti-semitic views. I have no problem in stating that, he's an anti-Semite, and he's a Hindu pho, he's both, and usually it's like a package deal, if you dislike the Jews, you're just like the Hindus, it's like a package deal, it's like a combo package, French fries and burger are always together, it's like the Jews and Hindus are clumped together, if I hate one I have to hate the other. Well, he sees them both as a part of a capitalist evil, and he packages them both in the realm of oppressor, if you look at things in an oppressor and oppress matrix, that's how Jeremy Corbyn views the world, that's why you'll see that he'll be supportive of communist leaders and states, and very active in tackling anything that is considered capitalist or Western, and quite self-hating really of the UK, if he'd become a leader it would be a disaster, because it's not really a supporter of the West in itself and his rhetoric and the way he positions himself, but the fact that he has one is considering the very recent history and all the evidence put forward of his, if you maybe you don't want to go as far as to say anti-Semite, but definitely his support of anti-Semites, and his endorsed anti-Semitic artwork, so obviously, I mean, really if you're saying Hamas to your friends, how can you not say that you're an anti-Semite, but we do have to be careful with language, and people are worrying about saying words like that now that we have elected officials. Oh, these are my views, I want to be very clear, these are my views, not yours, and well, Jeremy Corbyn... It's very hard to argue that he's not, but it's also very dangerous to label now that he is an MP, there'll be a lot of protection over the elected, and I'm sure we'll come on to the elected independence as well, we have to be careful, and I like which of ours. So I wanted to ask you this question, so Starware has lost five seats in constituencies, particularly where there is a large Muslim population, and four he has lost to independence, and one to the conservative apparently where the independent was running on a pro-Gaza platform and made a significant intervention, now why has this happened? How can Labour lose the Muslim vote, that doesn't make sense to me, electorally, right? They would vote left. We had an organisation set up in the UK called the Muslim vote UK. Oh, please explain this, I don't know anything about it. Yeah, so straight out of the Muslim Brotherhood playbook and Karadawi's aims for the Muslim Brotherhood success in the West want for a gradual participationist growth of Islam towards an Islamic state. We've had organisations working on that in the UK for a long time now, the Muslim Association of Britain is probably almost closely linked in a video to the Muslim Brotherhood, being that it is actually connected by family members. And the Muslim Association of Britain, five pillars, men, all organisations that have been named as is the MIST extremist organisations in the UK, supported this new organisation, the Muslim vote UK, and that has really turned the issues in Israel and Palestine into a tribal Muslim issue, and has put a lot of pressure on Muslim communities to vote for the candidates that it supports. It very early on drew up a spreadsheet and made it public of all of those that had not voted for the ceasefire in the right timely fashion that they needed them, wanted them to have agreed to or voted for a ceasefire, and that included a lot of Labour candidates. And then they campaigned heavily against those Labour candidates and said, you know, if you vote these Labour candidates, you're voting against Muslims essentially, you're voting against the Ummah, and they were very successful. You know, they went out and screamed at Labour MPs that they were, they had the blood of Palestinian children on their hands, that they were evil, Zionist, murderers. We've had MPs say that this was the worst election they've ever run in, that they were intimidated, one campaign team had their tires slashed, and Muslim MP had her room stormed by masked Gaza vote men intimidated them. So it's also seen a real split, you know, between the Muslim communities and Muslim MPs who are very against divisive tribal politics and this kind of rhetoric that care about Palestine, but are not using it as a way to gain votes and to manipulate the Muslim communities into this greater sense of peril and us and them, and we need a revival. What we've seen is this Muslim vote UK really celebrating their five wins and talking about how they're now strategising for 2029, they'll be thinking about how to make more Muslims come out to vote because they felt like not enough Muslims came out to vote, that they'll be making sure that they only put forward one candidate in each area, so there's no risk of split votes because we saw some Muslim vote candidates not win because they were two in the same area, so they shared the vote and then didn't win. So they're already strategising for 2029 and they've talked about how this is just the beginning, so it's really worrying, but that's what this has all been about, and our five candidates, I've been profiling them just over the last few days, all incredibly troubling, from links to known Islamist organisations, family members who have praised Hamas and even met the leader of Hamas. We've obviously got Jeremy Corbyn, you've got Ayyub Khan who was thrown out the liberal democrats for anti-Semitism and refused anti-Semitism training, pretty much all of them have been, like their victory speeches have been met with from the river to the sea, the chant that is considered by many to be genocidal, and so yeah it's a real mess, it's a real worry and as Shaboona Mahmoud was an MP who had these last men come into her meeting, has said this should be a real wake-up call for him. This is scary, and I'll explain. This has been the most troubling part of the whole election, is this sectarian challenge, the success of these five, and the real success of what I can only see as being a Muslim Brotherhood strategy being met out in the UK. So let me explain, as you were, you know this immediately reminded me of how the Holistani's game, the Canadian system, so let me give you some insight, because I've been following these suckers for a while, so what they do is exactly that, so the Canada has these primaries, right, they have primaries where before the candidate is selected they go and fight amongst each other to become the candidate, but the Canadian primary is so stupid, anybody can go and vote in the Canadian primary, just it's anybody can go, so imagine if I'm a tourist, and I am in a constituency in Toronto, and I'm like, hang on, it's a primary, I can just go and pretend to be someone, and I'll just go and vote, they don't check anything, it's not like you have to be a registered ex or a registered boy, like the American primaries are far more robust than the Canadian one, so what the Holistani's do is, every single party, wherever there is a writing, they call it a writing, the constituency basically, it's a single constituency, they make sure that the person who wins that writing, the Sikh phase, is a calistani, so no matter which party has a quote unquote Sikh, it's a calistani, it's not a normal Sikh, they have absolutely gained the system, I mean you can sit on the outside and like damn, that's talent, that's talent, that's talent, and now what has happened is, the Muslims have found out in Canada, they're trying to give the system, so where the Muslim vote matters, they're trying to do it, I need to try to do it, I mean they literally have their website before the run up to the elections was a list of which Labour candidates you can't vote for, which ones you can, who are the right Muslims to vote for, but in a similar vein, we had a Sikh manifesto that came out that was backed by Sikh Fed, and Sikh Fed wrote that the only people that the government should be interfacing with in the Sikhs are the baptized Sikhs and was already setting out that sort of, yeah you must only interface with our type of Sikhs, they also put in their annual report that they want to see the breakup of India by its centenary, and they're the ones that are very involved with parliament, very involved with the Labour Party, I think whilst Labour has spent a lot of time rooting out antisemitism, it's done nothing and understand nothing of the colour stone links and pressures and influences within the Labour Party, and that's going to be something that we'll come to for, I think over the next few weeks we begin to look at that, who's been put into what positions and what connections they might have, and I think the Palestine issue will be a big issue for Labour and Labour's relationship with India moving forward. They don't understand what they are doing in their countries, you know we are, we might be a new democracy, we are an old civilization, we Indians have memories, Indians have learnt a lot of things, religion was literally the reason our country got broken, we know what happens when this, we know where this ends, we know the end, like I just did a podcast with Jonathan Kay, he's a great Canadian journalist, someone I deeply respect, fierce individualist just like me, and John you know he spoke about a so-called hate speech bill in Canada, I know where these things go, who pushes them in the parliament, the organisations are always so clear, and it all ends in one thing, blasphemy laws, and mark my words they're coming, they're coming Charlotte, they're coming to your country too. Oh we already have a sort of soft enforcement of blasphemy art in the UK, we had the APPG for British Muslims put forward the Islamophobia definition which extended into elements of preventing critique of Islam, we already have schools sort of self-managing risks so that they don't do anything that would be considered blasphemous, because there hasn't been the right amount of protection afforded to schools, we still got a teacher in hiding because they showed the image of the profit created by Charlie Hebdo on a class on you know speech, where they gave warning they were going to do it and said that anyone who was going to be offended could leave the classroom, and that teacher is still in hiding, and I think through fear and through a lack of clear process around this, there's already a self-monitoring of blasphemy because you know who's going to protect you and where is the process, so why would you go and do something that would cause yourself risk if you don't need to, so I think that that's already very much coming into the UK and the Islamophobia definition hasn't out. Yeah, so you know Shrimah I wrote a wonderful article explaining the British elections, I wanted to know your views on this, this scared me even more, it was like if the minority Muslim population of a particular constituency touched the critical 10% mark, labour's vote went down by an average of 11 points, that went down further by 23 points if the Muslim population went over 20% mark, in terms of vote share that translated to around 7 percentage point decline, and where the Muslim population was in the region of 40%, labour suffered a stunning 33.9 percentage point reversal in vote share, this is gaming the system, I don't know how political, this is you, you have game the system. And I've spoken to a Muslim in government who doesn't want to be named, who says it's so bad, the intimidation from the Muslim vote UK and their and who they have influence, that even with his own family WhatsApp group he can't talk about his own opinions, about things, whether it comes to Israel and Palestine, because they have got everybody so hyped up and so tribal that if he said something wrong in his WhatsApp group he would just be excommunicated from his family, and that is how well they have managed to sort of get into every home, to get everybody feeling that this is what you have to do for your brothers and sisters, that this is more important than anything else, and that to not do it is some great insult to you and your people, and people are just taking that mantle up and taking that forward themselves and doing the work for them, so it's really worrying. Yeah I mean when I when I was trying to understand the magnitude of this it's it's it's it's it's insane. We have started just before the election to put in safeguards, so men's Muslim Association of Britain and five pillars, three of the key supporters of Muslim vote UK, Muslim Association of Britain being the one that's associated with Muslim Brotherhood, men being notorious for divisive us and them rhetoric, and working with young people to make them more fearful of society, and that they're like perpetually victimized, and they get the cools them together and in a dangerous way, considering their leadership has been found of is the missympathy's by the Daily Mail and then lost lost their case standing against that, so you so you have these these three organizations that have been identified now publicly by the government as is the misyxtremist, there cannot be any working with them from government officials or elected officials, and so labor cut all ties with with men only a few months ago, so I think that's really important that that happened just before labor got got in, that's the beginning of what needs to be done, this real muscular liberalism, if you want to call it that, where you say these are the values of tolerance, equality, and respect, and if you don't have them, if you don't happen to a certain extent, like these groups, you know, extremists, then you're not going to be worked with, and you're not going to get money, and you're not going to be met with by politicians and have nice voters taken of you to give you more kudos, so that's really important. We also just had Magic Freeman arrested, and we had his book to re-aband, so I think there have been quite a few things put in place just in the last few months, Magic Freeman was arrested yesterday, this is the guy who was very involved in the riots, so he's just been arrested and charged and now is awaiting trial on terrorism charges, so there's work being done, and I think at a fast rate to try and curb the situation, but these organizations and these people have been worked with by government over the years since the 1960s, it used to be the strategy to work with the Muslim Brotherhood to tackle ISIS, and then they realized that was counterproductive because the Muslim Brotherhood ideology lends itself to then, if one is frustrated by not getting something done peacefully, they're in the mindset that they might take it to violent action, so yeah the government has made quite, that was conservative government, made quite a few mistakes along the way and now there is a large presence and a large influence and a more muscular approach in which organizations are banned and people are obviously charged with terrorism offenses, is what is needed. Do you think labor is going to be successfully, they're going to be successful in managing this pressure group because we're not going to discuss the report, that's going to be a separate podcast, I did read your report by the way, the one you sent across, Britain's attitudes to faith in public life, I'm specifically discussing that, by the way lovely report, I totally enjoyed reading it, but in that report Charlotte, one thing stood out to me because I wanted to connect this with the current thing that you're talking about and in Islam I read your report, it says Muslim respondents were most in agreement 67% with British politicians talking about their faith being a positive thing compared with Sikhs as the least positive about 41% and the next one, 77% Muslim respondents thought British politicians should listen to what faith leaders have to say on social and political issues compared to 48% Christian respondents. This should not be taken lightly, listen the grip of the mullah on the voter in that community is dangerously high. Well Islam has not secularized in the way Christianity has, it's not existed for as long, so it's not gone through the same time to go through that process, but also the actual script itself is far less giving towards secularism. It's a book of instructions and rules about how to manage a society, things like just your tax for example, you know it's very prescriptive, whereas the Bible for example, it has a whole section of poems and then it has stories of you know what Jesus did that you're supposed to think about and take lessons from. Department of Ten Commandments and some of the stuff in the Old Testament, it's not particularly rule-based and it definitely is far more parable story, poetry, that it is a set of this is how this must be done, whereas you then turn to the crown which contextually was brought about because everyone was going a bit haywire and going back to paganism and it felt ruleless and the sense was there needed to be a set of rules to bring people back, back under the fold of controlled religion, so therefore the crown is very prescriptive which then is more problematic when you come to how do we move this book on and people are working on it, there are those working on revisions of the text, there are Muslims that are working on reform but that's an incredibly hated area of work obviously and it's incredibly difficult to strip that apart and create something that works for this secular equal society today, they do things like say that this was for that time but if you take the essence of the rule so if the rule is women get a certain amount of inheritance for example if the essence of that rule is women get something then the new rule in this context is women get equal and that's how reformists are trying to do it but you can see that's far more more difficult than taking the new testament and doing the same I just I was I was right but I read this I was like yeah I mean I wasn't surprised by that result at all and yeah I think that like like so many points right like 80% of Jews agreed that UK is a Christian country, 64% Christians agreed that UK is a Christian country, the Jews agreed more than the Christians then that was the funniest bit of that report, I was like damn Jews, 60% Hindus, 60%, the Jews were the most secular and the most in agreement of comments about Christian heritage and historic culture of the country they came across most secular and most agreement with those comments yeah yeah so the Hindus were 63% that UK is a Christian country, 38% Muslims, 38% damn but interestingly they were asked another question because they might be thinking that the country is now secular or the country you know it's not ruled by the church anymore but they were asked another question they were asked did they think that the UK's Christian heritage was important and they were all over 50% for that like all of them were over 50% I think I think the Muslim respondents were over just by one I think was like 51% I think that the Jewish respondents again were about 100% and I think the Muslim respondents were somewhere in the late 60s, 80s, 70s and the Christian respondents were in their 80s so I think that the framing of that question they might have been reading into it is is it run by the church no not so much but is Christian heritage important which I thought there would be a lot lower to be honest for the non-Christian respondents I thought all about 50% that surprised me I thought that was quite positive so it was just fascinating for me like I was going through this report and you know when I try to compare the elections to this the report which is like multiple ways like 75% of Muslim and Christian respondents have friends with faiths or beliefs about God that are different from their own 96% yeah 96% of Hindu respondents and 100% of Jewish respondents recorded the same there aren't very many Jews in the country as well the way to look at that question I think the Christians responded very low on that they were shockingly low on having friends of other faiths but you just touched on voting because that was really interesting part of the we did a follow-up survey and we asked about whether there will be there will be influenced by religion in the in the ballot box and the 18 to 24 year olds were the most likely of all of the age groups I think it was something like 34% that they would be influenced by their faith in when they voted which which was a huge compared to something like 17% of the 65 plus so that was really concerning that jumped right out to me as we're seeing an increasing read adjustee and an increasing influence of faith amongst the 18 to 24 and the 25 to 34 year olds they were also in the 30% bracket and then it drops right down at 65 plus to between 10 and 15% I think so we have a more religious more influenced by faith youth coming in to a country where we need coming into vote within a country where we need to have everyone represented and that that really worried me my goodness and and you know what's interesting if you try to put two and two together there's a significant chunk of these people with high religiosity quotients are going to end up voting for workers party the other one I forgot the name of the party that I mentioned the green party or reform or reform you're gonna see the trend that the Tories and the labors I don't know but I won't be surprised that's my brain telling me that the Tories and labor will not get these votes and all these uber you know I'm gonna push my religion to your face kind of people they're gonna vote for these three party stories and labor are in serious trouble in the country and the independence as well um yeah yeah yeah I think I think it's worrying I think it's worrying the way in which the elections are played out as well with how the percentages was as moved into seats and we also had something like 51% vote to turn out that's terrible yeah nearly half of the population didn't vote but why do you think because the voting percentage has dropped right significantly in this election there's a lot of voter apathy there was a sense that whilst people didn't want to vote conservative it's I think this is typical when you swing from a party that's been in for a long time to a new party is people like I don't want to vote for the party I've always voted for forever but I'm not quite ready to put my allegiance to something I've stood against for my whole voting life so it's quite a big leap to go from voting for conservative maybe being a part of a family that's always voted conservative and that's essentially your political tribe to then move to support the opposite tribe and vote for them I think that's my big leap for people so people faced with that question then are likely to not vote unless they're really angry and then they vote for the protest party like we fought all right so now I want to ask you a couple of more questions what is the good side we've discussed so many bad things what what are the good things that we can talk about in this election because I don't want to depress everyone they're like oh we're gonna die so I think we can be positive that labor when it comes to India for example has put in effort before the election as well you know deputy prime minister Angela Rainer came over to talk about the trade agreement and economic ties and technological ties with India and David Lamy who's now the shadow foreign secretary and he came over to meet Jay Shankar and work and effort has been put in place to build that relationship Kia Stama has said that it's very important relationship obviously has made a public statement about homophobia however with all that being said they don't seem to be changing the position that the Conservative party had on immigration and that extends to India visas and working visas I don't think there's going to be much of a change there um but I I do think that the the real risk and the alarmist information that we had with Jeremy Corbyn and how he positioned himself with Kashmir and how he was seen to be very supportive of Pakistan that's not something that we'll see to that extremity but we will see it with the pro- digestion elements so it's hard to find a great deal of positive there's a lot of concern there's always concern with change but the way I'm the way I'm remaining positive is to say that this is an opportunity to change the Conservatives have not done well to tackle extremes in themselves and they pulled out a lot of stops last minute to try and get elected and that didn't necessarily come as genuine and it's something that should have been done a lot earlier so I think we can say that the Conservatives in my in my area have not necessarily done what they needed to do until right at the end the banning certain groups and um listing certain groups as extremes organizations and getting proactive on that side Labour now has an opportunity to do it differently it wasn't working with Conservative so an opportunity to do it differently it could go terribly but at least there's an opportunity for change and there's enthusiastic people now in positions of influence when we've had tired and corrupt people for years who have lied who have been involved in scandal after scandal maybe fresh enthusiastic new people will mean better work done at least more honest work done but yeah there's a lot to be concerned about I mean the positive really is just those new and this change and the corrupt not around that's about it so you know so many interesting things like their vote share really increased in Scotland in Wales their vote share went down I mean it's even in this landslide apparently they have had the lower vote share like compared to Blair and their victories so what the hell has happened here 34% or 36% of the vote share and then the Conservatives had 23% of the vote share so and you can see how that hasn't that really doesn't make sense when you see that they were one 411 of the seat well it makes sense because of the way our elections work but it doesn't make sense for actually reflecting what the people in the UK want and who they wanted it in I mean I engaged in tactical voting because where I am voting this part of the country it didn't make sense to vote for who I wanted to vote for because they had no chance but to vote for who I wanted to vote for to not have the party that I didn't want in you know and that a lot of people were doing that voting for something that they didn't necessarily want but that was the vote that they needed to make if they wanted to make sure that this party didn't win or yeah it's it's it's it's it's so complex that and and and and the problem the biggest problem here is that the lower voting percentage which is which is something I don't know why people don't realize that and which communities do you think usually tend to have lower voting percentage I'm not surprised it must be white people oh you know vote turnout oh yeah um I'm not all and that there will be research on that I'm I'm not sure I know that the Muslim vote UK were very upset about low Muslim turnout um but I haven't looked into the stats of which communities are voting like I can begin with white people who did not turn out to vote it's it's the standard model everywhere and like I almost always ask reach reach out to my friends and ask them did you vote no why this is stupid and it's a huge problem and then they're like oh when did this change happen so I want to ask you what's your point of view on the Tories like they where do they go in all of this after reform getting so many seats they really messed up so they've had got how many prime ministers now and obviously infamously we had who have the same many I don't even remember who who are you last there was Rishi before Rishi there was that uh woman I forgot her name before that there was Boris Johnson then before Boris Johnson there was another woman I forgot her name let's trust let's trust let's trust famously lasted um for less time than someone's cabbage lasted in the fridge and that became I mean um but we had we had Boris Johnson having parties with a DJ in um yeah having having parties with a DJ at a time when people were in hospitals dying and their family members couldn't come and visit them uh so that I think that really stuck as a real issue that was called party gate recorded and it was one of the big scandals and he lied about it and then evidence was found on his phone that yes he was having parties that there was alcohol that there was even music um and so so many being like gaps and memes made about it but it was horrendous about how he lied to the people told them that they couldn't move they couldn't go and visit friends they couldn't go to hospital and then had people drinking um and having parties so I think that was probably one of the the bigger of the issues um list trusted one month resulted in mortgage prices hitting the roof we had basically went into a mini economic downturn and panic because of how many budget um crashed the economy some would say so that's not been taken well at all and then right at the end you had Rishi Sunak um leaving early the d-day commemorations and you had veterans of the war in their 90s saying publicly on the television that he was ashamed to the country um and you know considering the attachment and pride that the UK has stilled in British people towards the veterans and towards commemorating I remember the remembering war to have veterans say things like that on the television just I think really really turned the final few who might have been staying with conservatives around so what what do you think is going to be the net result of all of this do you think labor will successfully manage the extremist elements like for an example I'm again reading from uh um Shrimah is an article where he has quoted uh foreign secretary David Lamie who has told the BBC that labor would would quote work with partners to seek Palestinian recognition while the country south MP Zara Sultanah holds that her party's position on Gaza is called a stain how position is it what did you say it's a stain like it's a it's a damn shame kind of a thing so who was saying that their party's position was a stain Zara Sultanah Coventry south MP okay okay um I don't think that is going to be our biggest concern um I don't think our biggest concern is going to be where okay you've got I can read it now um yeah I don't I think that the Gaza issue has played out to um win certain positions in election than the election in different ways but I think the main issue we're going to see with labor is whether it's going to still work with Islamist organizations and Islamists and how is it going to defend schools for example from um threats against teachers who have engaged in blasphemy you know are we going to have a defense if a school comes under threat and intimidation for engaging an LGBT related teaching at schools um what is going to be done about madrasas who are known to have um children being beaten up if they don't recite the Quran properly what about some of our Sharia councils that have um been tolerant of domestic abuse um these are the kind of big questions that at the conservative party wasn't able to handle if this can be very difficult the labor party who relies on support from certain voting blocks that are sympathetic to Sharia councils and do not want LGBT teaching in the schools and this is I think going to be where we're going to have real difficulty when it comes to um Palestine and Israel uh two state solution in the end this is going to be something as well and decides and works out and yes international pressure makes the difference but ultimately this is a foreign affair that is Israel's what we're going to have an issue with is how are these domestic issues dealt with are we going to see an increasing um extremism that affects schooling the effect secularism that puts young kids at risk that puts women at risk that's where the real challenge is going to be yeah but I have never understood this like for me uh if somebody from the Hindu community had a certain problematic point of view I don't care if they're Hindu I'd call them out I even if they're a minority in the west if somebody from the Hindu community had a problematic point of view I would call them out yeah we have that why is it that yeah why is it such a problem to call out uh bad views in the Islamic community why is it Islamophobia like I have never understood this one because the because they've managed to own the definition the is the most managed to own the definition of what is Islamophobia is is again it's the Muslim Brotherhood tactic to control how Islam is defined at control the way in which it is discussed even um and to create a great sense of fear around the notion of Islamophobia and to pull people together around that um and it's very easy to get someone to say oh yes I want to support some action that's around hate crime and that's against minorities that seems like a really positive thing to do it takes a lot of understanding and deep comprehension to tell the difference between someone who's genuinely trying to help people facing anti-Muslim attack and someone who's trying to gradually bring in an islamist agenda that's actually really hard to tell the difference unless you spend years in the game and like yourself because you'll spend a lot of time looking into it I think for most who go into politics who may be been dealing with energy or um check for the economy it's going to be very difficult for them to discern between those two things and even understand the first thing about Islam and first in the first business um so yeah it's it's been really easy for that to enter into the UK yeah it's it's just disgusting for me I don't care what religion you belong to I have a moral objective is if you have bad shitty values I don't care which which which part of the world you're from and just bad shitty values we've had a lot of Muslims come out and speak out against this and set up whole organizations to challenge it we've had quillium we've had um Muslims for British secular democracy um there was one called act act to change um over the years they've come and they've gone for they've been intimidated they've been threatened they've been told they're not Muslim they've been told they're coconuts they're white white on the inside brown on the outside they've faced physical threats um one organization had its offices stormed and they had to move and hide their offices um the the Muslim man Piazza Mughal who used to be an MP who runs something called town mama and faith matters which are about tackling anti-Muslim hate he's he's gone and living in a different country now because he can't deal with how much hate he faced for being a Muslim who tackled for it is a mystic streamers streamers streamers even though he let leads one of the biggest organizations for tackling anti-Muslim hate at the same time so I think that the pressure on those that then come out and speak um yeah to be someone who's willing to take all of that to do it most people just want to get on with their lives like okay extremism is a problem but I'm not about to martyr myself on twitter and say something and then uh face threats for it hmm well we're almost at the end charlotte so before we wrap up is there anything else you think we we could not cover about the elections no um I think I think we summed it up really that whilst the news will be saying the biggest thing about this elections is the landslide victory I think really the issues around these elections are being a need now for electoral reform that it doesn't quite work um a rise of sectarianism rise of um independence on the back of a Muslim brotherhood agenda which is what I think the Muslim vote is entryism of Islamism into politics and what we need to look out for in the next few weeks is who is positioned into what and what is the calisthen influence going to be um and then in the next few months we'll see how the relationship I think with India is going to move forward from here but I think there'll be a prioritization on the trade agreement and when a party actually gets elected they have to get real with national security threats they have to get real with what the economy needs and they do an awful lot to get into power when you see them in power and they have all the access to the information what they need to do they very rarely are quite as wacky as they've appeared to try and get themselves voted in. I think uh the long-term solution for for western societies is actually something that Australians do compulsory voting where on average every Aussie vote or Aussie election has 95 to 96 percent people voting and what results in that is the entire political pantheon of Australia right whether the right wing or the left wing they're very centrist they are very centrist whether so you know in Australia one government goes and the other comes and they're almost all the same and that's the result of compulsory voting because when everybody's voting usually the world goes center because most people are centrist and and and and I hate this as someone who doesn't like the government interfering and telling him to do things. I think you'll have to force people to vote that's the only solution of this mess otherwise people will form groups and they will keep hijacking writings or constituencies or whatever the word we want to use. That's probably whilst we're both staunch liberals that might be an illiberal action that we need. Yeah Aussies do it I want you to study this how the Aussies have managed it. I think Claire Lehman at Koolert she explained this beautifully in one of her interviews or essays I don't remember exactly but then I started looking it up and I was like is she making sense or not I tried looking at the statistics and I was like actually then I started breaking down policies of the Aussie version of the Tories and the other version of the labor in Australia and I was like this is very interesting this is actually what happens is when more and more people vote right they tend to vote for a very centrist point of view and and that's why the Aussie left is not like open borders we let any in because their voters will be like shut up no open borders we decide who we let in and we don't let you game the system and many other things so it's it's it's very interesting but hey Charlotte thank you very much for coming and speaking with me on the podcast and hopefully this time if you visit India or I visit England we'll definitely catch up we need to catch up yeah that would be good let's make that happen next time yeah so everyone go go follow Charlotte on twitter or x whatever you guys want to call it I still call it twitter but her twitter handle is there in the description of the podcast you can follow her she she publishes a lot of papers also we're gonna discuss a couple of papers sometime in the future but I was like well the British elections have happened so might as well discuss the elections right now but once I'm once once I'm done reading the papers I need to read them at least a couple of times and then I need to look at the citations and check them all out and once I'm done we will have Charlotte back on the podcast until then everybody you know the drill keep supporting the chart work podcast whether you can just like this video like subscribe to the channel or if you're an audio listener you can support it on the audio platform if you want to become a member please join the membership program on youtube or on patreon or you can buy the merch I'll see you guys next time until then namaste take care bye bye you