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That's S-P-R-E-A-K-E-R.com/adhub and start using your advertising dollars in an impactful way. # My attention was not to hurt you # # But I guess that's what I did # # I know the times I've tried to explain to you # # What's going on inside my head # # And the nightmares came over me again # # And I got some bad motherfucks to deal with # # That they came from me tonight # # And I'm losing myself to a terrible mess # # That is impossible to fight # # And the nightmares came over me again # # You know I need you # # I've never let you go # # I love you, Pablo # # You say you never need me # # Where are you, Pablo? # Don't know about Pablo, but where are you, Brendan? It's the day, Trippers. [MUSIC PLAYING] Three losses on the spin, four in the last six, and we go into the international break on his battle run, and what Morales loads has been since Brendan Rodgers took over, so what's to be done? Blaine's been a portion of Goats have been scape, but really, head of Liverpool turn around in a season that's disappearing down the toilet. While we'll be having a chat to Rory Smith at the times on the problems that are facing Brendan Rodgers, and to analyse the latest loss and plot a course to Kammerwaters, I'm joined by Hori, old sea dogs, and the young, Stephen Deli, they moflood and Phil Casey. A fire! [LAUGHTER] OK. Who was on the stolen? Fab! It's a fireman! Fab! OK, we have to do a review of Liverpool and Chelsea too, so let's do that. Before we get into the really bad stuff, and there is a shitstorm of bad stuff, some positives. Emory Chan is a positive. He is a powerhouse, is he not? He is a warrior, is he not? He's maybe not as fit as we'd like yet, but it's an awful shame that we all have something for us. Our old guys didn't seem to spot this lad, but there he is, and he's a wonderful prospect and he is, you know. Yeah, he is. Phil used to go on a lot of built. You know, yourself, you're half listening. [LAUGHTER] You're thinking to yourself more about that. This is like the last 24 players that he used to tell. [LAUGHTER] And I'll do, like, can looks like a Chan, Jan, whatever way you want to say, it looks like an amazing player, and... Well, we would just say, yeah. [LAUGHTER] Jan, Jan, Jan, Jan. It is, Jan. Oh, really, whatever. [LAUGHTER] I'm so pedantic. [LAUGHTER] Look at you being right about stuff. [CHEERING] You're being right. Oh, yeah. He looks to me like, you know, a really top-level player. Like, you know, the way we love Henderson and we love him, we go on about Alan and that. He kind of just looks like he had Charles both of them, and he looks like a kind of player that we probably struggle the whole, aren't he? You know? Jesus, Andy. [LAUGHTER] Is that? This is the puzzle. He looks like, you know, a mash-up of a bar. Sorry, Alan. So that was just fun. Gone. Okay. I think that's a very good point. And he's got just remarkable potential. Brilliant fit. I love the hair. But talk to me about sort of a kind of balance, too, which is that he seems to be rolling that legs half way through a game, three quarters way through a game. Is that fair or is that not fair? It's a perception. No, I think, you know what? I don't know whether it's a way we train players or what. If you remember at the start of last season, actually, most of our fucking 11 looked like they were doing that. If you remember, back in the leg, after 65 minutes, they all had the Lucas's, and not that they were shy, but just that they couldn't play more than 65 minutes. So, you know, from that point of view, yeah, no, I'm not worried about that. I think that will come with time. I think he's played a game against Real during the week. We're asking him to play again. And he really is only starting now to get back into the team. I think he's got enough class to cement his place in there and make the others worry about who takes the other spots, which is great to see because I think in time, he'll actually sit in maybe into a different role than he's playing at the minute. But yeah, you know, he looks, let's hope. Listen, if all of our signings were betting in the way he has, we'd be fucking having completely different podcasts than what we are at the moment. Yeah, that's very true. And it's just that when he gets on the ball, you're saying to yourself, if he'd cost $25 million and Markovich had cost, you know, what was he, $10 million? You would be saying Markovich is still poor value for $10 million, and he looks the $25 million, or $20 million player, because he just, he might be leggy. He might not be, you know, he might not be a full fitness yet, but what he does, he looks like he does it right. And he looks like he's making the right decisions. He looks like he's getting in the right positions. And that's something that the other players that we've brought in don't look like they're doing. Mark, how much we spent on it? Well, where will he end up? What's his best position for us? Well, I don't necessarily think that he just looks leggy, or he looks unfit. I don't think he'll ever be able to play that position of playing hoi and having a hoi walk rate level. He's just not built that way. Yeah. Do you see him kind of like Sahin the way we tried to play Sahin further forward and it didn't really work? And it doesn't really work. Yeah. He should be sitting in that whole position. Because he's very good at rating again. Well, he was notably the furthest man forward several times during the match. And he's never going to. You only have to look at the physicality of the player. He's bulky. You only get a bear on muscle. He's not going to be able to put many moles on the clock in the game. You prefer to seem deeper is what you're saying. Well, you prefer to seem deeper. You prefer to see him on the ball. Steady. Steady on. Everything is working. I know it's steady. You just come in here and it's just won it. It's double on time draft when we're going. So you're having the football shot here. The problem is at the moment, Steve is using there. He's not getting fucking milked out there. Whatever reason. Can't be playing in there. I'm going to just say now he should be in there and a story. But maybe. Hang on, I said it's there. And Gerard has a place. He has a limited place. He has a time and a place to use him. All I've got to say to there is just leave Jared a solid. We're going to build can's potential more. So like what we're seeing so far. He hasn't actually done something to really say. Yeah, fuck you, Jared. I'm in there now. Like it's going to take. It's going to take a power house performance where you can just go. Keep those away. What I'm going to say. Convince. We're talking about twenty-four minutes in the Chelsea game. What a rather senior round. He's in the Chelsea game. It's when you're making your substitutions, you hold your adult and drop cannon there. And you put Alan in. Yeah. And let the legs in there. Instead of doing the opposite way. Well, he's actually against Real as well. Yeah, exactly. So you're not going to really be starting every game, dropping Jared and putting him in. When you're dealing with the same sort of thing. Well, you look to see him get a full length. He's going to be able to get a full length. Yeah. Right. 60 minutes out. At the moment I couldn't disagree. I couldn't agree. I have to say. Jared's not performing. So you might as well put the younger player who's probably got like a future. Yeah. You know, just like on them. We're talking about, you know, does he have the legs or not? He did. He ran his arse off against Madrid on the Tuesday. Like, and you know, he goes into another high intensity game. And he's playing as a box-to-box midfielder for us. Like even one of Minuli's poor kicks. Do you remember the one that he went straight down the middle? It was Chan who bores his arse to get 25 yards to nick the ball back again to Minuli. Yeah. I still want to take him off as well, by the way. Just jump. No. He's got two best players in the pitch. I want to take him both of them off, right? And I know we're getting onto it. But like, what I'm saying to you is he is what you want when you're sawing a player. Yes. You know, it's part of the place in the hole out just the way he's come into the team. Yeah. And you've no problem now with seeing him start the match. No. Because he's shown what he's capable of. No matter what he costs. And he's standing out now as a player that you want to see in the team. You know. And that's happened too few times in the swings that we've made. Yeah. And overall, like, in reality, there's only Manquio Moreno and Chan that you're saying to yourself, "I want to see those three in the team every week." Yeah. Because that's the performance. Or they'll have to take their plays rather real the way around. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And they've stepped up to America and showed that level of performance. And, you know, again, he's playing in a position that wouldn't necessarily be in the position that he played in when he was coming through. But he's capable of playing it. He can play center back as well. You know what I mean? This is a fellow who has a pure football in education. And when we look at players and we talk about signs and we talk about where we shoot. Look, he's the example of why we should be looking at Germany in terms of value that's there and also the education that the players get when they're there. Because they don't play in more position as they come through. They play in a myriad of different positions as they make their way through. And now it's the time to actually sign German players. Yeah. And it has been in the last couple of years. Exactly. And when I look at Henderson, Henderson is similar in an English sense because he can play in a number of different positions through midfield. And if you have to pull him out right back, he can do a job for you there as well. And so, you know, it's dull. And they're the type of players that I automatically think when I think of Brendan Rajasone and think of all the things that he said about the players that he likes. Multifunction. And players who have a bit of arrogance about them as well, who are confident in themselves and go out and perform to the level that you want. And Channing, even the goal, you know, we criticize that Henderson doesn't take enough shots away. He's already shown in the first couple of games. You know, he's not afraid to have a shot. He seems to have a shot on him as well. He had a shot a few minutes earlier. He didn't need that he dragged like that went wide. And the fact that he said to himself, "Fuck it, I'll have another goal." That's what you want to see from your play. He's also reacting to what's on the pitch. It means that that matters. They were able to get space around us. So if you hook up the right positions when we did get the brakes on, he was obviously going to be the one that was free in the space. That's a bit of tactical sense. You know what I mean? He's able to read what's going on in live in the game. It's a good player being able to see what's happening on the pitch and then going and doing something. Adapting to make himself as valuable as possible. We're knocking this together. We're trying to come up with a couple of positives to start it off. You know, this is going to be a slightly contentious shot. But you had included Minion layers, one of your positives on the back of the Real and the improvement that he showed from the Real performance. I know you were a bit taken aback at the treatment he got in the press. Kicking a ball out five minutes into injury time when we haven't gotten a shot away in nearly the last twenty-five minutes hasn't lasted the game. And it's completely irrelevant that went on because the referee blew the whistle straight away. He kicks the ball up. Even if he kicks the ball straight up the pitch, the referee blows the whistle at full time. What I did think about Minion layers and something he took on from the Real game. He was quicker off as well into things, right? He was unlucky with the force goal because he does everything that you expected. He's just genuine. Can I ask you a question on that as a goalkeeper? Should he not? Should he not palm that away? I'm not talking about the... I'm trying to remember now the sequence. I don't see against it. It happens. It's the pace that the thing happens at, right? You know, he's looking at three Chelsea players in front of them as the shot comes in. Yeah. And they're in the zone. I suppose there's nowhere he can push that saving. But if he pams it back out, it goes straight back to a Chelsea player who's standing there. He's going to look like a complete gobshire. I'm not going to announce that straight back. I'm not going to announce enough for holding on to it. I think... My view on why I thought he didn't play particularly badly was because, early again, he was coming for crosses. He made some good punches off. He was quick, as I said, he was quicker off as well. And he looked more proactive in the way he was stepping up when the balls were being played around. Okay, his passing is a choice. Look, and I'm not saying that, you know, all of a sudden he's become a good passer or something. We're just in terms of the all-around game and what he took on from Real Madrid. Players that played against Real Madrid and what he took on. And also considering what was put back in front of him. Yeah, exactly. Let's be honest about it. And, you know, to me, I just didn't think that sticking up with him kicking the ball at a play when it had absolutely been there. Yeah, I think it was a cheap shot to be hit. It wasn't reflective of his actual... And, like, there was a vine where they showed him doing that and then, nor doing his flaky pass. Like, it's so stupid. Like, you know, it's really just kicking the fellow bullies down. Yeah, we wouldn't be talking about that thing if he was a good season self-air. Yeah, and all I'm saying is, I just don't think, I think there was a bit of focus put on him and there was questions asked when that wasn't to get... No, we've been very critical of him. We've been critical of him during the season when he has been a fault. So I pick him out for fault when it wasn't really... I know we're going to get into what happened, right? But I'll be straight, which is, before it's 24 minutes of that game, I thought, since the sports game was the best 24 minutes easily. I thought we played very well. We exploited where they seemed to be weakest at under pitch. You know, even Balotelli had a goal disallowed. You know, he looked a bit more intelligent in terms of the ones who was playing half-catenia on the whole lot, right? And it was actually... I was enjoying the force 24 minutes. I was going, "Jesus, you know, these lads suddenly... there's a bit... there's a perk understep." The Chelsea were a threat, still. Yeah, but, yeah, again, we were matching. We were going with them, we were matching with them the whole lot. We get the goal. We seemed to have a bit of confidence in the whole lot. And for me, like, there's a lot... there was a lot of gold in those 24 minutes. Unfortunately, unfortunately, we can see the equalizer. And I've never seen a team just completely lose their belief in what they were doing, lose their focus on what they were doing. That's where we're at as a team. That's what happens when you're in, though. It doesn't matter how good you are as a team. When you're having that downward slope that we're having at the moment, you need things to go right for you. You need to get in half-time when they're low and get the fucking G everybody up again. You need to look where we're at. But I'll be honest, despite everything, I'm actually not that down-hearted now and disappointed, because I know it's all ifs and buts and whatever else. But, truthfully, Cahill has fucking handled that part. There's two panels there, but I have a question. On both occasions, he's led with the arm rather than being bolt to hand or bolt to body. And, therefore, you look at those. They're the little things that change games. The things that if your look is with you, you get the panel, you go to all of a sudden, and take this back and ask them again. We probably weren't worth the stay, but were we, you know? Worth what? Worth the result? No. We had a chance. But everything changes. But the game changed in moments. If we get a penalty to go 2-1 in front instead of being 1.5 minutes a day. Or even we go to all, at 70 minutes, who's to say that our game doesn't pick up the first 25 minutes of the game, and we're not on the ascendancy for that last 20 minutes. And people say, "Jesus, you were looking out to get all three, but a point isn't a bad result." You know? You can stay alone. The only thing about Chelsea, you know, kind of, I hate it. But the way Jose managed to change the game back into their favor when he went to go all down, he moved Hazard inside. And then if you watch out for that, your melt times Hazard takes Jarred on him. He just ran on him. He just ran on him. He ran on him. And it just effectively destroyed Jarred. You know? And if he took him out the wing to win there, and then I hear that Johnson's pulled inside to fucking pick him up as an excuse. If Jarred is in there, he should be picking him up. It's not Johnson's job to win him. We'll do Jarred. Just saying that was good from Chelsea that they see, and he managed to change the game. That's in game management. Let's take a look at some of the more negative things then that we wanted to talk about. We've got to start off with the team selection thing. And there's this idea of meritocracy that we spoke about. Like, you know, if you're doing well, you play, and that's it. Call or two raise the obvious one that I think everyone wanted to see and expected to see. There are arguments for and against. Where do we stand in terms of Brandon's selection? And, you know, what it did to the team and how much he must wear the fault for the result as a result, if you know what I'm saying. Like, I think it goes back to nearly Sunday league football where the fella, you know, isn't around this weekend. Another fella plays and does well. And then the other fucker doesn't train Tuesday and Thursday and rocks up on a Sunday morning and gets his game. And I know that sounds like a very stupid analogy. But it's exactly the reason why the fella who's played well the previous Sunday thinks, why do I bother my bollocks? Why am I going to show up? Why should I try and train and why should I do anything because the truth is the other fella's going to get in ahead of me? And that flows right the way up to our current situation. Where is the impetus for Colotore to go and try and push the others out? Because he's thinking to himself, okay, it doesn't really matter how well I train or how well I do in a match. There'll be certain games when I get some game time and that matters for call because the next match I'll probably be out again anyway. Is he overthinking it, Andy? Sorry, can I just say Colot knows where he stands? He knows where he stands on the course of a season. We listen to the press conferences and Brandon talks a lot of shit as well. He says that he didn't play well against New Castle on Change and it's not all like this business of just changing the team, resting the team. He was starting to genuinely try and pump the fans. But behind it all, Torrey knows where he stands. Roger's going to explain to me, I've never gone to be in my forest choice. Torrey's cool, I'd say, at this stage. No, I can't buy that for a second. Torrey is being brought in, he's a winner, he's a champion, he has a drive and a desire. What fucking player out there, professional footballer, says you know what? I did really fucking well against Real Madrid. Yeah, no problem boss, drop me for the Chelsea match. I'm okay with it, I know where I stand. He knows where he stands in the course of a season. He knows he's not playing 38 league games for us. But to not be able to hold this place. Torrey was released from Brazil. Look, that matters nothing. That doesn't matter upon us. Him going on to Liverpool, I'd say, was enough for him. Well, then we shouldn't have signed him. If him signing for us was enough, if he doesn't have the desire to want to play two big matches in a week after having a good performance. But then he wouldn't have sat there on fucking Wednesday morning and said no problem boss, you give me fucking Jersey back there to the other fellow. It's up front of the fella and says to him, this is the way it is. This is going to be and he's okay with that and he's up front a bit. We should be okay with it. No player should be okay with it. Get out there and fuck with it. That's what's wrong with us at the minute. If those players are okay with that. It's in the question, it's in the question. Not what's okay for Torrey. It's in the question, what's right for the team. Absolutely. Is there any person here who can argue logically that Torrey should not be in the team because he's on good fucking run a form. And we have no centre house, we play well. Oh, he absolutely played him right. But after that then, you're struggling to see where you would have... My kilo is an obvious one because he's much better than Johnson. But after that you're really going to play Beringne ahead of Valatelli, even though they're both poor players. He's going to put Valatelli back in hoping he produces something. But after that, it really just stays colon and then the rest. So he's the main... He's not going to leave German now. I'm my kilo for me as well. We know the cracker, my kilo. Look, him and Johnson are sharing the position. And you can just say, look, on a road about it, right? When Rajas came in and forced, you know, there was a great... His dogmatic approach, what he was saying was that, you know, he was a big champion of youth and that if you're... It doesn't matter what age you wear, if you're a good enough, you know, that was good enough for him and young players will run through the wall from, right? Now, we know, and I can understand what Andy's saying, but we know that over the course of this season, and I'm putting over the course of the actual season itself, the young players have performed better than the experienced players at this stage, right? We're not winning games as it is. So why not? Why not? In a big game, put the marker down and say, do you know what? I am going here with these players. I've stood up and I said these players will run through brick walls for me. I've stood up and I've backed into the hills, right? I am going to put the team that I believe is the strongest team. Not necessarily the names, but the strongest team that's going to run all day for me and employ my high pressure, a high tempo game that we used to have here, right? Now, if that means that Ballotelli doesn't get back in, fine. If I want to have a walkout late and someone that's going to run the line for me in Borini, that's there, right? I play midfield of Henderson, of Chan, of Coutinho, that's in there, right? To give me, you know, we know that Coutinho is very good in possession. We know he plays very well in big games in those sentiment field places because that's what he did last season. I know Henderson and Chan is going to go box the box for me. And I'm looking at my defense and I'm going to say, for the last six years, we've had Johnson and Skirt were playing there and we've always looked weak defensively when those two play together, right? And especially over the last two years, we always look weak. And, you know, Skirt has been more or less ignored through the whole team because we, you know, Lovren is doing completely fucking mad things on the pitch, right? Yeah, when Johnson and Skirt were both injured, we looked the best defensively. And it wasn't great, but we looked much better defensively. That's more solid. Yeah, than those two. So for me, I'm saying, right, I'm going to put all the eggs here and I'm going to say, do you know what? I am going to go with Manchayo. I'm going to go with Torre. I'm going to go with Lovren. And I'm going to go with Moreno as me back for. And do you know why? Because one, I've got, I want Lovren to come true. I believe he's a better player than he's shown at this moment in time. Martin Skirt was going to be Martin Skirt. Johnson, we know it's just going to be a parlor, right? You know, just, just, just but be body and say, if I'm going to lose, then these players are going to learn how to play as a team together. Because this is the future. These are the players that are going to be here next year, not the ones that are, you know, and then it gives the kick up the yards. It continues to get the kick up to the yards to the more experienced players and says to them, what you are doing is not acceptable for this club. It's not acceptable on the football pitch. It's not acceptable to live off a reputation and it certainly won't be tolerated. And if you keep doing this, you will be out in January. And it doesn't matter who you are, you will be out in January because I'm not dealing with this anymore. The Johnson, Skirt, Lovren, those three at the back are possibly one of the worst defense I can remember in a long long time. That's actually, that's the show where we go. Flutely, first of all, talk to me about that. That trio in particular are they as bad as you've seen in terms of the combination and the ineffectiveness of them. Go from there, please, and talk to me about at least one of the goals that we conceded with that defense. Because we should talk about them. Because, you know... Let's talk with the force on this corner. You know, we play center half of years and a center half comes and attacks the ball in the corner and lose it to a fucking player like Oscar who's in a standard position and he doesn't win the header. And he's a run and jump on him. I'm sorry, but most center half show when the majority of headers in that position. Lovren doesn't win that. So it breaks down there. And then whatever happens after that, you've got four of our six players just stand and scratching their ribs as they react quicker than we do. And then Johnson stands and makes this fucking disgraceful attempt on a half fucking to protect myself, kind of block at the ball. And absolutely 100 grand a week that broke our hands, you know? And he's now fucking willed to go and trumps out in front of that. He should be willing to trumps out in front of the fucking bush for that time. Well, he doesn't, he kind of fucking pulls it over. The second goal, or Johnson's talked in, it is very narrow there. The ball gets switched. Soon as it gets switched out to continue on, he's one on one with the full back. Johnson should be pushing his ball up, stay around and cover. And the opening gone on for that long time. They're back far as the system doesn't work because none of them cover each other. None of them matter. Any stage, if one goes out wide, he's left one on one. The other center half doesn't go. They're not in that kind of mystical or magical rope that we all talk about. It's when we play it. And when the ball gets shifted out, it's left one on once. And then you're in trouble. Katina is in trouble as soon as he gets beaten there. But that's why you expect your cover and player to come in. That has to come down to coaching the other end model, doesn't it? You would think that because... Well, you can coach that as much as you want. You can have those footballers there. It's not like all four. There's no way those four players have come up through playing football. And none of them being told to cover and play that system. Perhaps they're being told, leave him there to do his own job. You say where you are. It's a terrible way of playing football. I'll absolutely agree with you on that. But maybe that's what they're being told. Because you can't be told, I worry more. That's my point. Because what I'm saying is, as the personnel changes, the way we actually... The only time you've seen it this season was when Sacco and Lovren played together at Center Half. And you actually saw them. You saw that whoever was going to meet the ball... Listen, it's fucking from schoolboy up. You assume your center half is not going to win. And you're covering behind it. You know what I mean? And we never do that. And it's... Skirtle is a terrible man for it because he stays static, assuming his partner is going to win the ball. And we get Kaflaa footed. But what I'm saying is, if we're never doing it, if we're never working that pendulum system, if we're never covering it in behind, maybe that's not being done Monday to Friday on the train. Well, I don't know. What's something as basic as that? Like, as soon as... I can't do it for five days a week. Like every fucking week. No, no, no. Like, as soon as casino is going out there, you're thinking, he's not a defender. He's going to get skinned here. Yeah. That's going to happen. Yeah. No one recognizes it. That's not a train and ground team. That's not something like Roger saying, here, you know, if an airplane gets isolated on the wing, don't go out. He couldn't be possibly talented. No, that's a super player. I have to say. That's just a stupid player. Well, I'm not picking out that one. I'm not picking out that one. And there's not... And again, it's communication. There's no way Lava and I... Our enemy was gone. Get the fuck out there. Torrey, what a... Yeah. Get your fucking ass out. And no one's doing it. Every player that's played the game, the basics of defending was... You asked that off in a 1v1, and then you went into a 2v2. And the 2v2 was the most basic. And what was when the bar shifted, one closed, one fucking corporate. The bar shifted. It changed around. It changed around. That's basic. Basic. You did that in a campaign stuff. You can't say... No, you can say that's system agony, not aware that they know that... That's a fucking... Stupid... Listen. And that's not the first time that happens. How many times have we sat in here and talked about him not getting into cover or just trotting back all the time? No, no, we can't even use him. No, I'm sick for... Because the one thing that my kid... My kid was brought, and Moreno was brought, they... I've never... Two players... The first... They turn off, when the bar gets switched all the time, every single time those two boys play, right? There's moments when they completely turn off, and the thing that kills me about Johnson is... And it really kills me. And I don't know what to think about him all the time, but this lack of... Even when he sees what's going on, to react to it, he can see that happen, right? He can see it for... It's like he's watching the match rather than in it. He can see it for him. It's like he's watching the match rather than in it. And it's like he's watching the match rather than in it. And he's on our bollocks. And even when he... Do something about it, you fucking lunatic. Even when... Even when... Even when... Even when... Even when... Even when... Even when he's going to go past him, there's a chance to go past him. He still doesn't break into a row. Yeah. And even when the bar gets crossed, he's still trotting. And fuck me, that is just not acceptable enough. He's a coward. He's a coward, like, Mankilo and Moreno aren't afraid to get skinned, because they're now... They're just torn around, break the bollocks and put a second tackle in. Johnson doesn't have to pace. He doesn't have to torn anymore. Never probably... Well, he used to have to pace, but he never really had the intelligence about the game. Now he hasn't got to pace. Already intelligence have played a position. And he rather than go out and close down real quick. We see him letting crosses in all the time. He'll just be the one that doesn't go... You know, he'll hide it. He'll just stand off. I only kind of done a job there. Put it in the man behind me, he didn't win the header. That's his thing. And then you put that along so it's Geralt who doesn't cover the centre back beside him. Or the fall back, right? And then we have Lofen, who was just on a different planet. He can't even judge 50-yard balls over the top, which is bread and butter to centre backs, right? You put the three of them together. And you keep... It's a trifecta of disaster. But you keep putting the trees. But I don't understand it. You keep putting the three of them together. Game after game after game. And you expect something to happen? It goes back to Andy saying they're the chosen ones, you know? I know, but just... But you remember the one where Johnson got skin boy hazard, he tracked them back. It was a model for it, for the supportment of the stand. Yeah, and it was a half attempt to leave it and you fell out. All Johnson's there is trying to get goldsoid here, trying to get goldsoid. Instead of just lifting them. Like Cosmankilo and Moreno would have done that. Listen, Flori, I feel like I'm in some sort of wormhole in this place in and out between the past and the present. I'm going to ask you this question anyway. What's going on in the back? What's going on in the back? But there is obviously a very direct link to what's going on in the midfield and the offensive aspect of that. And we've got a man stationed there who, for various reasons, is not possibly able to do that job defensively in Stephen Jared. Is there... Is it time to have that conversation? Is it time to make these big bodesy calls now that we've been shouting about for a long time? Is it time maybe for him not to start? Yes. When I was asked to start the year, on the part, has Jerry had got a role? I said, yes, he does. He's got a position. He's got a role with this team for certain games. And they're the games where you're going to get teams at Anfield. You're going to fucking be on the front floor. They're going to be sitting deep. That's where you want them. When you have Chelsea, you've got City, you've got teams that are going to come and come at you and they're going to be a danger or a threat. He's fucking no place in that team. Especially in that hole in the hole. Because you're sitting through the hazard ghost and past them at ease. And it seems to be like every game you play is in there. Players just seem to float around in there. And he's totally unaware. The last guy I remember was the Madrid game, the first guy up in Ronaldo. Ronaldo plays a 1-2. Now, Jerry closes Ronaldo. Ronaldo plays the 1-2. And Jerry fucking watches the ball and chases the ball. Ronaldo just makes a little run. He's got a proper defensive midfielder. He says that Ronaldo's the danger there. He's going to let somebody else there with the pass and I'm going to pick up his run. The goal doesn't happen. But he's constantly at that. He's not defensively minded. There's a certain breed of player to those that. He's not that breed of player. The Ramirez, Roni, watches him. That was so terrific. Do you remember that? He just stands on watches. And I think he's just at the stage. He hasn't got the leg to track them. They're the ones that hold. They've chased him, players hold. They're the lone boasters. And to be fair, he was never that guy. Anyway, he saw those runs and tracked those runs. He can make massive last-ish tackles. He can win headers like nobody else can. But that's not his job. That's not his natural game. If you look at last season when he was playing defensive midfield, we were opposing at the time. Tames were getting there. Liverpool were scoring goals for four. They did the reason. They let mistakes. Tames didn't come out of. Of course. I know. They were afraid of the ball at the top. No, they didn't pass us around. But the dreams didn't pass. Exactly. So at the present moment, it's certainly not the role. You should be playing. I think the best thing now will be an impact. So 65 minutes are 60 minutes. Stick them on. And let him start doing things for those few minutes where he gets confidence back, where teams start becoming fearful of him so that when you do need him for a full match, suddenly the fair factor of Stephen Gerard is back again. Because what's happened now is that he's... Tames don't fear Stephen Gerard anymore. Yeah. I actually actually picked him out as a weak thing. Yeah. We just started to see. We just started to see. No, I absolutely still think he has a massive part to play this season. I just think, like some other people, he needs to be taken out of... The situation needs to be managed. And this comes back to what I was saying about Brendan Rodgers and watching what he does this season to see whether... This isn't about sacking him at the end of the season or not. I actually don't think he should be sacked regardless. Whether he finished 10th or 11th, I think we said we were going to have a project. We can't keep on having a turnover of managers. And I think there's a benefit to having him there longer term. So I don't care. But if all of the calls he's made, that's as bad as anyone. Keeping them persisting with Jared. 100%. And you know what? He's done it again with Johnson. He's reverting to type, unfortunately. And I think our play has reverted to type. I think he nearly got lucky in the way we started to play football last season. I think... And this could be terrible to say. I don't know. Maybe I'll get slaughtered for this. But maybe our electric counter-attacking football wasn't so much to do with him. But to do with the actual players we had on the pitch at the time and the speed on which they accepted. And they built this style of play themselves. I don't know. I wasn't on the training ground. I don't know if that was coached into them. But if you remember his first season, it was the pass a team to death type of football. And we've reverted to that this season. And it doesn't work with us. Because we don't have the people to do it. It's always too rare to struggle. We play counter-attacking. He was great at getting on it and releasing us early. He released us early on. We'd push us back to the slow build-up. And we'd push the team. Two teams happened last year. We went and we lost and Gerard got injured and was out for a long spell. And in that space of time the team had to play without him. And because Rogers wasn't comfortable to play a two with Lucas in there. Say we're Henderson or Allen or whoever it was at the time. He then played a one and played with two in front of him because they were basically going to be the legs for Lucas. Because he knew we couldn't get up and down the pitch. I wouldn't have played Lucas in the game. I didn't think it was going to be anything like the Real Madrid game. And it wasn't. So I'm not saying that that's who I would have gone. I've said already I would have gone with the youth that we had in that actual match for mobility purposes. But again, there's an element of you sometimes stumble upon the formation that works for you in that moment in time. And even coming back to Coutinho playing in the sentiment field. That happened because of injuries as opposed to choice again. So there's an element of that. But sometimes when that happens. You don't then revert back to what it was beforehand. When you've got everyone fit again. You stick with the thing that's working. There's a bit of us now that's gone on. The team started to figure out how to play against us when we played a diamond. So maybe we won't play a diamond because we don't have storage in the hole. I still, the bit that puzzles me to the end degree is that we haven't tried the diamond with Sterling up top along so I'll tell you. And I don't know why. Because to be honest with you, it's the one thing. It's the one ability to get in behind what it would stretch. It's been so comfortable for back fours against us this season because they've been able to see. Because he's not central. Yes. Because, well, you know, he's off forms slightly. But we haven't nobody we've had has tried to get in behind. You can't really come in to fall last year through the middle anyway. Yes, yes, he did. He's getting on the ball. But I can't go chair. I still, are we? No, I'm not. I'm just tired. I'm just tired. I'm just tired. You know, I think Rogers is probably... I think Rogers might be wrong. The wrong manager to finish, Jarrod. I think Rogers came in to Liverpool, looking up to Jarrod too much. Yeah. One of the four suites when Rogers got the job, all he said was, "Rudgers, Holt, and you're a Liverpool manager would be based around how he retours the ride." Yeah. Well, they obviously have the conversations because he's retired from England. And I think, like, that's proven, that's not really working out. He needs to go a step forward and start leaving out the team. Now, like, as the captain, probably a bit of responsibility. He shouldn't be on the manager. Maybe he needs to go to Rogers and say, "Listen, my legs aren't in it." I feel like, "I can't do this. I'm making a show on myself weekend." We go, "Like, the lads are sucking me." The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. The lads are sucking me. I know we all adore Steven Jarrod. He must know that Stan has a slip. I mean, like, Karrega is just about the only best man to fucking slay him on TV. He started just coasting around. He's without saying blatant. They're going to have conversations. They're still the best at buddies. I'm sure Jarrod's going to look. You've got to feel that Karrega has been honest with him face to face, don't you? I don't think we're not the only ones that say this. The man that every manager in the Premier League has seen on the play label. They're just a chair. I can see it. They definitely can see it. I just think that he just doesn't have to... Just doesn't want to be that man that if they don't qualify for the Chairman's League and if it's a disaster season and people look back and say, "I'm a fucking wanker." If he left Jarrod. I think that decision ultimately could be taken out of his hands if F.S.G. and in-air can't agree a contract with Steven Jarrod. That Steven Jarrod wants. Because I think what happens come the end of the season then, right, is that Roger's going to know that he's not necessarily there next year because he can't agree a contract. No, I still think they agree a contract. But do you know what I mean? That decision could actually be taken away from him saying, "Well, I actually have to now plan for what's going to happen in 12 months and 18 months down the road itself." So there's a bit of that as well. The only way it's going to happen is he gets injured. I was just going to say, I think we were stumbling. We were talking about how you stumble across a formation or something like that. I think Jarrod's body might actually fucking force Roger's hand. And that could be that. If he keeps on playing him the way he's playing him, something's going to give. He's going to get an injury. Oh, he's going to get an injury. Look at the face of me. Roger's just being a fucking man. Man, being a manager. I think everyone's sitting around the corner. It's the only way people are getting the respect. Yeah, fairies. He's like, "Your ad's a bigger man than the dressing room than Roger's." Unfortunately, that's the way it is. When you had F.A.G. in the dressing room, he was the biggest man in the dressing room, and he'd make them calls. I just don't think he's going to deal with it. That's down to the fact that as a manager... As a manager. The club. Yeah, they can't. The fact that this is the reason he made sure he has to have an young manager. That's a project for me. Well, a very maturing took the people out. As people were getting to the absolute point whereby he felt his power, his authority. He challenged. Yeah. He did it with Kean. He did it with Kean. He did it well. He did it well. Every time. I asked him for Stephen Direct to be showing the fucking door from it. No. I think he has a time and a place and a game to be using. And I think... He's very useful. He's very, very useful. Yeah. Okay, well, let's look at some of the solutions that we can possibly come up with. That's one, right? It is the management of Jared. What else can we do to get out of this hole that we're in there? What tracks do you want some Colin Pascal for a start? Do you think that will really help? I think we have to show up and there's a bit of superstition. I think you can't sing the best song. But seriously. Yeah, listen. Everybody's talking, "Will Daniel's storage be our savior?" I think... And I don't want to shoot myself on the floor here. But I think he actually might be. And what I mean by that is we actually have create... I know with the last few games, maybe the last three or four games, we haven't created a lot of chances. But if you think about the chances that have been flashed into Balotelli game-winning chances, and other players, storage or Suarez last season put them away. Yeah. The game just changes. It's just those little moments that change games, that change, you know, runs a form, that change sleeves. Well, it's an economical change with storage and attempt. Big time, like... You know, because... He just will drop ten yards. If you pick up an ankle injury, you'll find yourself with a knee injury, a hip. Like all these aim is knock on, and the defense at the moment is just knockin' on all over the pitch. Yeah. So I think something starts to go really, then it starts to heal everything else. So I think like, bang in a few goals. Even though we are a league and one of two goals. Storage is going out and it's going out. We're gonna be willing to get off a little bit more. We're going to say, and I'm sure we'll talk about it next week, but looking at, you know, we're talking about solution, right? Yeah. I think there has to be an almighty slap in the face for an awful lot of people, you know, that played on Saturday. And, like, straight away, you know, I want to see a back-forwarder. It doesn't have love and scare it, and then Johnson is. I just want to see a game where we don't have those three in the actual defense. It doesn't mean all three have to come out, but just not have that three together. I would take our three out at this stage. Because, look, it's not working. So I... So you're talking about Manquillo, Sacco, and Torrey. Assume... Assume and those three are fit, right? Then my back-fart picks itself. It's Manquillo, Torrey, Sacco, and Moreno. Because what's the worst that's going to happen? We lose again. And for me, as Torrey... It's Torrey like to see that even if we could see it not, let's just put it in for 10 games, and that's your back-forward for 10 games. - Go go. - Oh, yeah. - Go get it. - And he's just... - No, no, no, it's Sacco's time, right? - Yeah. - And he should play... We said at the start of the season when he got in, right? And he played three games, and it was our best defensive run that we had. No, it's the time that he gets 10 games, regardless of anybody else mistakes... - Baron injury. - Baron injury, he gets 10 games. And then you don't play... I don't play scare it a lot. I play a lot of Torrey and Loven, and Loven, by the way, had an absolute shocker. I'm not putting... I'm not saying that Loven was anyway, got it all against Chelsea. He had a shocker, right? Well, he's the man we've spent 20 million quid on to help us here. - I'm not scared. - And I still think... I've seen the Skirtland Sacco partnership last year, and that didn't work. I've seen Skirtland character, that didn't work, right? There's a common thread right the way Trudus all the time. And now's the time to say, "Well, Martin, look, you've had your chance. The defense isn't picking up. It's time now to take you out of it." The same with Johnson. "You've had your chance, Freddy. You've had two years of abysmalness. You're done. You're sitting the bench there. You're going to get your run in the League Cup. And it's going to be up to Mankio now to fuck up on a regular basis before you get back into the team." - Loven, Loven gave Rogers an excuse to drop him. - Yep. He can be... Don't want to be too hard in a fellow coming in, different club, and it's bigger, and it's a step open. - He's trying to fight. - And he's trying to fight. - But people making mistakes. - Well, I'm talking about when he tried to flick the ball out of a caster's head. - Imagine that little girl. - Oh, Jesus. - That team dropped, right? - Yeah, yeah. It was nearly fucking wishing, you know, because I started thinking, "That's bad enough. That, like, it's a prick of a thing to do." He's doing a right in the touchline in front of the fans, trying to win them all over. That in his head, that's what he's at. He's trying to turn the fans towards him. He flicks the ball out of a caster's head and runs out for the ball. - He looks like a strong man. - Do you know what? - Do you know what? - He turns the fans more on his side. - If he fucking opens, cost it on the highway. - Yeah. - He takes it out carefully. - Ball man. - Or maybe he went ahead or something like that. - So enthralled me, fucking mad, and certainly he was scared. His cost and nudged him. He pushed him. He gelled him. And then he got a little bit of a woman on saying, "Look, if all casters don't force it on what they don't, "I said nothing. I wouldn't go into an argument. "I would have fucking clattered them out of it." - And then the cost of the team. - Yeah. - Maybe I won't do that. - No, he thought that battle was between them, but fairly good. - It's scary. - Scared up. - Scared up. - Scared up. He was thinking that he's going to blow up here and he's going to get sent off or something. But with fairness, they kept the battle clean enough. - And he still lost to me. - And he still lost to me. No, and the energy really has to stay in the place. - But you make sure you're the first. - Look, if you're American caster, you're going to be... You want to be pissed and blowed at the end of the week. Fucking punch in this kidly's all game. Doing things on the floor. I'm sure that's all the things happening. - It looked to me like he was bullied. - I don't know. I don't know. I don't buy into that, but I just think that it's not scary. It's one-on-one. It was the issue. I just think it's in general what he doesn't bring to the defense. - No, he doesn't. - And that's scary. Yeah, and that's the issue. It's not about a one-on-one battle. Yeah, it was great to watch. It was great. - He lost. - It was always cringing for him. - Listen, all I'm saying is, you know, it's one of those things where we've seen him being pushed over before and the whole lot. He stood up. And that's probably the best thing I can say. And it's not saying that he did well. He stood up, right? He wasn't counted. He stood up to what was going on, but he wasn't counted. So going back to how do we solve it. I'll say it again. We trowed him in. We trowed different in. We said we've gone three games. We've gone through three games losing three on the spin. We trowed him in. As I said, you play Hendo. You play Chan. You play Coutinho. You put them in midfield. You say, you know, give teams something completely different that they aren't expecting to come at them. And then we go, assuming storage is fixed. I don't know where he starts, but what you do is you put Sterling back as a 10. And if storage isn't ready to start, you put Sterling up front for Balletelli and you put Coutinho. Well, this is a party break now. We'll let them break Molly the water, isn't it? Because, you know, they'll be... Trev, Trev, Trev, Trev. You have to... They won the game before last break. We've lost the game before. It makes no odds. It makes... Look, all I'm saying is it's a timer reflection. Hopefully, Brendan steps back and he says, "You know what? It's a complete clean sweep." I started something in Madrid. I gave them a chance. They let me down. No end, right? They have no... None of them can come to me now but if I leave any of them out and say, "Oh, here boss, what's the story now? I'm going to do it." None of them can do it. And it's no time to show Balletelli. It's time to show, you know, that he is the boss. And if you don't perform for him, get the fuck out. You're a... Ballet of Steel. That'll do. Okay, we're very pleased to be joined in the bunker tonight by Rory Smith of The Times. And he's gone to discuss some of the issues around Liverpool Football Club with us. Rory, I wanted to speak to you about your recent 442 piece on Brendan Rogers. I write myself about housing and half words four times a week in L.C. So I do an awful lot of Rogers' talk and lampooning and setting them up and winding them up. In your piece, you start off in your first paragraph talking about the parables that he talks in and how it's vaguely mystic and you talk about his lovely brogue, his meaningful whisper. I think you refer to it as. Am I picking up on a little note of skepticism about the man? You are. To an extent, not so much about Rogers as a manager, but kind of about Rogers. I guess just... Yeah, he goes sort of... He's quite easy to lampoon, I guess, is the thing. That doesn't necessarily make him a bad manager. Just makes him an easy target for satire, I think. Yeah, I think you have to separate Rogers and manager from Rogers the... That's sort of the figure, I guess, because he does talk in this very deliberate whisper that I think he's... He always decides that that's how he has to talk if he's going to be taken seriously. And he tries to talk in criticisms and these little sort of clever phrases. You know, the thing about you train dogs, you educate players. He talks like he's... He's... He's... Every uptrend might be one day put up on a wall. And there's not... There's not anything wrong with that. Yeah. But it's just that sometimes it breaks a little bit. It doesn't mean that I think he's a bad manager, particularly. It's just that he took that as one of his traits. I would probably say it's a flaw, but to others it might not be... to others it might be inspirational. Well, it's the first thing that people go to, isn't that when they want to have a goal, because, as you say, he put himself out there with his language and he does kind of come across as... not quite a snake or a salesman, but a bit kind of as you say mystical a little bit. As you say, he vests what he says with an awful lot of sort of seriousness. But, I mean, the piece was written before the loss to Chelsea. That's our third in a row. When you spoke about the kind of false solace that people can get in, you know, shouting for the manager's head, you know, I hope that that's going to make all the difference. And, you know, make him escape going for it. Is there any case, really, genuinely, for a change in Liverpool at this stage? Well, there is always a case for change, I guess, because you don't know that it might be better if you do make the change. You, none of us know that. I think that it's too easy. Oh, that falls me to an defendant. Managers are all the first people to go whenever there's any sort of problem. I think to an extent, I like to speak to a lot of players. They'll make the point and it's kind of cheaper to sack one manager than 11 players, and that's why they do it. And there's probably a degree of truth in that. But I certainly don't think that getting rid of the manager is a panacea. I think there are issues at Liverpool that are Rodgers' fault. I think there's flaws of his that are a problem. But I think the issue really with Rodgers is that last season, because it was such an excellent surprise in the excellent season for Liverpool, it made Rodgers almost look a better manager than he is, because Rodgers is still a very young manager. And I'm 32, so it's not for me to call that man who's in his early fourths is young. But in terms of his career, he's watched six years into his actual management career. He's not being there and done that, and being through everything that you need to be an absolutely top-class manager. And that's why the very best managers tend to be, what, late fourths, his early fifties, because they have been through enough challenges to know what to do in any given situation. And what we're seeing this season, I think, is that Rodgers is in a situation that he's never been in before. And he's not quite sure what to do. And again, that doesn't make him a bad manager. Yeah, as you say, in the piece, football's obsessed with a simple solution. The idea that if you drop one player, everything will be fine. If you start to manage it, everything will be fine. That's all you need to do. You're one step away from greatness, that's all fine in football. And that's a clearly ridiculous way to be. But I think it's the same with managers, that if you have one great season, it doesn't necessarily make you a great manager. And if you have one run of bad results, it doesn't make you a bad manager. So Rodgers isn't a bad manager now. It's not the case that he has to be either a great manager or a terrible manager. He's just the manager who is learning. And he's obviously got some huge positives. But I think we're seeing this season, that there are some flaws as well. And that's because he's not been through these things before. Yeah, it's interesting that you go to that point, because he himself acknowledges listening, and he did several times that we were ahead of the curve that he had sort of envisioned for us. And so, you know, by extension, then he is. So, like, when people talk about the club being bigger than him or maybe too big for him, there has to be that acknowledgement, doesn't it? As you say, it's a learning process. And people really should possibly steal themselves to be ready for that. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's absolutely right. I mean, I sort of posed the question more as it was a kind of narrative conceit than to the serious point. But then I think there is a point in there that the people always talk about, you know, he said that Liverpool is bigger than Suarez. And Liverpool, obviously, is a bigger club than any one individual. But at the same time, that kind of applies to Roger as well, because a lot of the problems that are manifesting this season aren't necessarily just to do with him. You know, there's the Stephen Jarrod aging process. Brendan Rodgers isn't in charge of the fact that Stephen Jarrod is aging. Critiment policy, which is not just him. There's the kind of direction of the club, which is FSD, not just Rogers. There's things that are kind of beyond his control. That's not to say he couldn't be performing better. He absolutely could be. You have to look at it. I mean, substitutions, they sure find something like that. That's the one really direct way of managing an influence again, while in play. I've not seen a Roger substitution this season really made a difference, to be perfectly honest. But I'll tell you that it's one day I guess it's the only one. So in terms of whether it's bigger than him, I think it is, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's too big for him to succeed in. It's just that there has to be a recognition that, as you say, it is a learning process for him for the club for a lot of the players. There's a lot of the players that are young. But also, kind of for the fans, I think last season was an exception. It was a weird season in a lot of ways, because Chelsea and the club, because Arsenal were Arsenal, because United had that dreadful season, because Spurs didn't perform as they expected to. And that kind of opened the path for Liverpool. And that's not to say that they kind of came second by default. That would be completely unfair. But at the same time, I think if you start from zero, you can't pretend that Liverpool should be finishing in the top two. With the spot that they've got with the players, they've got with the project they've got. They're not on the top two sides, but they were ahead of the curve. They just weren't pointing it, I guess, last season. They had reverted to the mean a little bit this season. And fans have to, which the problem obviously is, that's not how football works. That's what I'm running on for. Yeah, no, no, but very much to the point as well, ironically, you talk about the problems that are fixable and the ones that maybe aren't. The ones that are bigger than what a manager can influence specifically. But one of the things you flagged up there was a transfer committee. I'm just taking your own figures there and there because I'm way too lazy to do my own research. And you imagine £213, £1,000, £1,000 spent on £22 players. Thanks. Well, you know, overall, there's a lot of chatter about this, you know, as a concept. And there's a lot of, I think, misunderstanding about A, who's involved and B, who should get credit for and B, who should be criticized. You know, are there a lot of signs of tension around the whole process for you, even manifesting themselves in the words of the manager, do you think? I think, through the concepts of a transfer committee, I think it exists at every club. The mistake Liverpool made is kind of naming it. That's the problem. There's ones people have something to name. Some of the target, they can attack it. And it's the same with technical directors. So, technical directors have existed for years at every English club. Someone who essentially feels that position, whether it's a chief scout or a chief exec or a managing director or whatever. But as soon as you say, "We are appointing a technical director," that does two things. It gives people who don't like change something to attack, and that definitely happens in the transfer committee. But I guess, more importantly, it creates the possibility for excuses. And that's what seems to be happening with Liverpool at the moment, is that, yeah, when they find a player that's adored, the deal doesn't work out immediately. It's blamed on everyone involved and kind of blame each other. So, there's four or five people on that transfer committee. This is Rogers, the Z&A. I'm not thinking, you know, they're just purely to say, "We can afford that, we can't afford that," which is fair enough. It happens at every club. They followed and Barry Huntzer, the two chief scouts, again, it happens at every club. And the Z&Dream, who's the kind of analysis guy. And, again, that seems new. But it happens at every club. They are involved in the sampling process, as they should be, to be perfectly on it. The problem is that, again, if you're getting players who don't work out, it's easy for the manager, and managers will always do this, to say, "Well, it wasn't my choice." Now, as far as I know, as Rogers has said, Rogers is at least part of that process. There's no question about that. He's always said he gets final say. I don't know how true that is. I would guess it is. It is more true than not, if you see what I mean. But at the same time, when, you know, when this player is like Mamadi Sacco, who don't quite work out, it becomes known through whatever means, and I'm not saying it's Rogers, that he wasn't one of Rogers' players, which creates division, and creates problems, and creates that culture of kind of shifting the blame that he's quite damaging, I think. And at the same time, you'd need a place you do work out, like storage and continue. They become Rogers' signings. Now, that's not true. They weren't Rogers' signings. They were recommended by the transfer committee, just as much as the lama, or whoever else, whoever else you want to name, would recommend it by the transfer committee. Rogers can't take credit for them, and it's all paid themselves completely from the failures. That's not how it works. But because Liverpool gave that committee a name, because they made it a thing rather than just saying, well, you know, we're running a transfer policy, like everybody else wants a transfer policy, it's created an issue. I don't think the existence of the committee is an issue. I think, look, if you look at their records, you probably have to say that the people on it may be on doing their job that well. But the fact that they've got a transfer committee is not a problem. It's how well it's working. And the fact that it does allow people to kind of make excuses for failures that's slightly problematic. Rory, how are you feeling? Listen, just a quick one for you, right? My observation is that I'm starting to feel that he might be slowly distrustful of players to come from leagues outside of England, that he is willing to give a bit more room and a bit more scope for players for finding their feet in the team, if he's taken them from the premiership background or from the player that's previously been in the premiership. The idea being like, you know, well, he's sort of stuck with Balotelli because he's got no real interruptions as a front man. You know, he's given the land a lot more game time than say of a continue would have been despite, you know, a similar type of form that the two of them are going through. And you look at, like, he's in the paper today talking about that you've had to go, you know, for potential, as opposed to proving what's going on. And if you think of the other talk that's come out around it is that, you know, he would have preferred the likes of, say, actually, Williams as opposed to somebody like Mamadoo Sacco. And Sacco is one of the forces to, you know, fit, you know, to get axed after the last season in the place of Loveran. Is there anything in that? Could he be not so much sort of internal in terms of the way he likes to look at players? He just has a lot more faith in a league that he's accompanied in and may not be as aware of the players in Europe or spend as much time analyzing them. Possibly. I think most managers, in terms of after Williams and Borini, I guess, comes into that category as well. Most managers like players that they know. It's much easier for them to get players that they know than it is for them to get players that they've never coached before. That's true of all managers. He'd be surprised, and I guess, for Rogers, particularly to be suspicious of foreign players, he has spent time and talks about how he spent time in Spain. So that's some sort of major qualification. He's been just watching training sessions in Spain. I'd be surprised if that was the case, but you're right. The evidence kind of suggests that he does certainly, but he certainly trusts some players to adapt more than others. Sacco, I don't think, has ever really been given a chance. And as soon as there's a problem, he's been blamed on Sacco, whereas others have kind of escaped any sort of responsibility. Stephen of Agir, I think, was completely baffling. I know there's a financial imperative there, but he was a lot of money with Daniel Agir. But Agir liked Pepe Reyna, who was kind of seemingly perfect for Rogers' style, and there was no kind of attempt to keep them happy or if it comes with some sort of arrangement that may well be purely financial. The other thing, the one thing I should say, this idea that he's complaining about having to buy potential rather than proving ability, what superstars does anyone think are going to sign for Liverpool? They're not going to sign it. Liverpool can't get an Alexis Sanchez. They try. He didn't want to play for them. They can't get a Don Salah's Higuain. It's pointless thinking about those players. They won't come. Liverpool won't play the wages. FSC has made that perfectly clear. To get Higuain, for example, who I keep being asked about on Twitter, I've never seen any link of any sort of validity to Don Salah's Higuain. But Higuain is on an awful lot of money at Napoli. It will be mostly tax-free because it always isn't a clear deputy. They don't pay net rather than gross. You'd probably need to come 50, 180 grand a week to attempt Higuain to England. FSC won't pay that, not for 26-year-old. Plus, what are the 35, 40 million pound seats? So this idea that Liverpool, it's some sort of conscious decision of Liverpool's to buy potential is right to understand FSC won young players with retail value. But also, there's no other market for them. They can't go and sign 40, 50 million pound players, not because they don't have the money, but because they don't have the appeal. And Liverpool have to accept that. For the time being, they can't get. You know, they can't go and get those grey-day players that City can get, then Chelsea can get. But to an extent, I mean, I could get. Aye, healthy, Maria, wouldn't have signed for Liverpool, despite the fact that in the Champions he just wouldn't have signed for them. And that's a slightly harsh reality, but it is a reality. And Liverpool have to accept that they're in that position. And again, I think that's maybe the upshot of having owners with a philosophy and a term circumvention with more than one person on it, that these are all good things on the face of it, that they create a climate where people can shift blame. And the manager can say, "This isn't my fault." The reality is Liverpool need to buy potential. They need to buy Tier 2 players effectively. They can't get Tier 1 ones. And that is just the reality that Rogers has to face, because it's not going to change. Do you not agree there's a scope for an exception for, you know, top one or two players in the club, like, you know, we had Suarez. That was, like, his new contract before he obviously left, was $250 grand a week. I think there's money there. There's not money issue, particularly. It's more of a pale thing. And Suarez, again, Suarez is a perfect example. Suarez is the type of player they have to try and buy. They have to buy someone who's either, you know, not quite at their peak, perhaps slightly flawed like Batatelli, or flawed like Suarez was before. Maybe no one quite really cared for what he was or how good he was, I guess. But when he came, you know, he was because he'd been banned for eight games at Ajax. And they wanted rid of them. But he was from all respect to Holland. He was from a second-rate lead. He wasn't a proven quality, top-quality player in one of your best leads. So Liverpool was an option as a stepping-stone club. But that's where Liverpool exist in that sort of current tournament. You might get a top-class player who's fallen out of favor at Bayern or Bath or Real Madrid. But only, to be honest, only Chelsea in '15, United and Arsenal, I want them. Because that's where Liverpool exist, to an extent financially, but also in kind of their stature around them for it. But you might get lucky, you might go and get, you know, someone from Belgium or Holland turns out, or Fram, I guess, who turns out to be the next Suarez. You know, who turns out to be a 20 million player, who's actually worth 50 million. But they're quite rare, and Liverpool have to take the chance. They have to take the chance on those players. They can't go and buy 50, 60, 70 million-pound players, because they won't come to Liverpool. And that's not meant as an insult to Liverpool. It's just a reflection, I think, of reality. Yeah, Rory, it's Stephen here. One thing that I read today was actually that Brendan Rodgers coming out and saying that the club does have the capacity to pay the wages to players, but the actual appeal for them to come to the city is the problem. And that, you know, you take a number of different players that have made it clear that they don't really care which club in London they sign for, once they're signing for a club in London. And I think that's hard for him to weigh up, because he can't really say that when, you know, whatever, 40, 50 miles down the road, you know, either they're able to attract Falco, they're able to attract De Maria. And I know there's obviously a difference in stature between the level of dominance that United have had over the last, you know, 15 years, 20 years. But, you know, surely he's making a rod for his own back there in terms of, you know, I suppose, singling out the city as one of the main factors for why players won't come and sign for us. I think, yeah, he's not, I think you point completely. I think he's right to understand, I think, if you're presented with a choice of Liverpool, if there's an Arsenal, you'll probably go to Spurs or Arsenal. He maybe wouldn't really care which one. I think it's been that way for a long time, hasn't it? Yeah, well, you've beaten me to something, you know, if you go to London, you know, there's a community there for every nationality. It's a massive metropolitan area. Liverpool, England, Liverpool, Manchester. Yeah, it's got the, you know, these Cosmopolitan, although, you know, everyone's now got a Brazilian restaurant, which is important. Brazilian steak houses. Is that what you can't move for? But, yeah, I think that is huge, you know, a lot of the foreign players at the Manchester clubs and at Liverpool spend all of their days off in London. There's no question about that. They're on the trail as soon as they can to go to London. You've got to think about their families and their partners. They want to be in London as well. So that is a huge factor. The difference, I guess, is, and I take your point, it's not a necessarily clever thing to point out because, you know, 16 United can get these players. So that then leads you to question right. So why can 15 United get these players to Liverpool calm? Is it because Manchester is a better city than Liverpool? That's not a debate. It's getting too, but they're both ones. Maybe not in this part. I think it's a little time. I love Liverpool as a city. I love Manchester. I don't think either one is more appealing than the other automatically to an Argentine, to be perfectly honest. They're probably much of a much better facility to the same. That sort of thing. Liverpool will be a little more better than the chapter centre. Who knows? Yeah. But, and that's basically all I've shared about is what, you know, I've stopped that. But I think that what that does bring that issue on is highlight the fact that Sydney do have much more of a draw than Liverpool at the moment. In Sydney, in terms of what they're achieving, the Champions League, and the money on offer, and United in terms of the kind of recent history. And, yeah, I can see why Roger brings that up. I think he's right to a larger extent. I don't have a problem with him saying it. But it's maybe not clever because of the ramifications of what that means. If they don't want to talk to Liverpool, because they want to be in London, but they're not going to talk to Man City and Man United. It doesn't make you ask, "Why will a fan for Man City in United?" And the answer is because they are, they have more of a draw than Liverpool. And that's not maybe something that you should be talking about, but admitting you should maybe be trying to persuade players that that is the wrong way to pick. Rory, just to finish this off, then, given what we've spoken about so far, it hasn't been mostly too cheerful. What do you think is a reasonable goal for this team on the brand, Roger, to finish it. - Score two goals. - Score two goals. Should it be something like that? In an overall picture in a nutshell, what do you think is a reasonable outcome? I think just storing a goal would be quite well. They're even looking at them, the story. I think they're looking to an extent because everyone's waiting for them this season. You know, it's healthy, gone, titles gone. I've drawn a thing with a brain, probably relatable. When the title is here, you'll probably expect 50 to go at some point as well. Southampton is brilliant. Southampton are up there. They will stutter. They're going to get out about that. And then you have that one of the space where Arsenal, Spurs, United, Everton, and Liverpool all look deeply flawed. And the question will be of those teams and Southampton to those final two spaces, who are the two least flawed teams? Liverpool are lucky because, you know, if you don't, if you don't have a good start to season and Spurs have had a good start to season, that might already almost be gone. And they'll be under intense pressure. And Rodgers will be under a lot more intense pressure as it is. Everyone's going to wait for everyone. I mean, they've got a way to get back to the Champions League. That has to be the target. It's not gone yet, but they're turning it around pretty quickly because otherwise they're going to have a real problem. Just sooner or later, United or Spurs or whoever will start finding some sort of form. And then that point, those places will be taken on. Liverpool need to be there because otherwise all the stuff about it. By potential rather than by today, by tomorrow, all that, that will get worse because Liverpool, without the Champions League, does not have as much for Liverpool to do now with the Champions League. And that will just make Rodgers' job in a long-term heart. Rory, that's excellent. Thanks for joining us. No, no, no, no. Pleasure talking to you. Thank you. Listen, Rory, just before you go, that was a great article you're up for for two weeks. I think it's out this week. That's really good of you. I can't really remember what I said. It's good and we'll clog it again later on at the end. I am Lujware. You are listening to Trippen's chat. (LAUGHTER) Come. Right then, let's have a couple of chats. But on subjects suggested by the listeners, and I suppose some from us here, we're going to start off talking about the, I suppose, one of the solutions to the problems, and that's people want to throw money at the situation in January. If we were F.S.G., would we trust Rodgers and the committee with money? How likely are the players to come if the form isn't corrected in some way between now and then? We don't seem to pay huge wages, and if this form keeps going, F.S.G., are F.S.G., they're not likely to splash the cash and back us up. If we want to have these dream signings, what do we think on this? What do we think is likely to happen in January? It's hard to imagine that they will throw a loud money, because they're being... Liverpool were being investigated for a financial fair play at one stage. So it's not like there's a spare $20 million. That's just... Given the net spend in the summer, I'm giving how much money came in as well. The way was that even questioned? I think because they have to go on the previous three years' accounts as opposed to the money that's come in this year. So it's like the financial fair play looks just over a course of three years, when you get to the Champions team, we haven't been looked at from the Champions team. So you say there's new rules for January? It's not so much new rules. No, but I mean, it's a fresh start. It's like... It's like the... Because you're going to the Champions League, they dangle back the look at our stuff. There is a potential for 10 over there. There should be. The truth is that I think F.S.G. have to take some of the blame, not just the transfer committee for what was done during the summer. If they have an ethos of buying potential, of wanting that return on investment, Chelsea aren't interested in the return on investment per se. They've a two-fold transfer philosophy by the looks of things. Number one, they buy big and they buy hard on fucking other players. I'll just come up with that one. I'm not going to stick with it. They buy big and they buy hard on their first team, and they also buy potential from around Europe that they do not have to rely on. So they send them back out on loan, hope that they do well, in the hope that they come into the squad, as Charla has done, or they... No, no, no, no, no, no. Do you know what I mean, even when they're bought, but I mean, Charla's come into that squad now, but who's the little... Salah, Salah, Salah. Who's the blondie fucker that went back over the Germany there? You were sold. The broind. You were sold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For 18 million people. So here's a prime example. They get the broind. He's out on loan. They bring him into the squad. He's not quite there, but still has gained himself quite a reputation in Europe. And they sell him for a nice... Well, Steve, there's only damn and city in the same boat there. Absolutely, absolutely. I think that just happened by kind of... No, I think that's absolutely... Well, okay, you have to name a squad. And all of a sudden you're looking at this squad of 25 strong players. They're going to have to do something with them. Absolutely. But I don't think it was pre-planned. I wouldn't say so. Sorry, I've digressed there into Chelsea. But get back to the question. My point is that I think FSG have set out a philosophy whereby we have to have a return on investment. Chelsea don't. Okay, so they're in a position whereby they are buying the fabric assets, the cost is now. Yeah. They're not worried about how much they're going to get back for them in four years' time. They don't give a shit about that. They worry and think about, are these players going to help us win the league this year? Are they going to help us win the league this year? Yeah. Unfortunately, we're not there. And that has to come down to FSG because you ask any manager in the world, do you want? Apart from Arsene Wenger, who maybe does get a kick out of finding these gems and bringing to fruition, every other manager in the world wants the best players and playing for them. And they don't care how much they cost. He changed his philosophy. Yeah, absolutely he has. This is my point. I think FSG do have a lot to answer for the way we've had to go about our business with that 120 or 130 million in the summer. So, yeah, they should. They should back them. I don't know. Do we trust them as fans? This is my point. It's a loyal debate now. If he is not shown the signs of being able to turn this around come December, January, similar to when Kenny was there, right? And they didn't spend any money in that January window because they keep the money back for any potential. Say it does go horribly wrong and they do sack them at the end of the season, right? Like, if they spend a load of money in the January window, they're buying players for that manager who isn't necessarily going to be there. And then the other problem you have is if you're a player that's approached by Liverpool and it's not gone really well at all and we're still eight, nine points say off for at this stage when it come around January, it doesn't look like we're getting back to the same form over the last year, will the players that we need, that we need to sign for the now, come back to your point that we need to sign the players for the now as opposed to the potential in January and that somebody that's going to come in and really make an impact, we need to continue the storage type zone is that I'm really going to make an impact on this team. Will those players want to come thinking that well actually this fellow could only be here from over six months and he's the fellow that's bringing me in. You know, I'm happy to come here and play for Brendan Rodgers, but I don't know whether that's going to be Brendan Rodgers or if it's going to be somebody else come June July. I could be as quickly found in the back of a squad here like I was somewhere else and that's why I'm coming in here. You know what I mean? So there is two angles to this. I think it depends over the next four or six games though, isn't it? They can flip on the head over Christmas. They can also went on a five game run now winning games. Like storage calls back to Liverpool can't potentially do that. Like you're only one hiding away from going in a, you know, a goal. I've been honest. I'm always still walking in my penny. I will be sitting. If we have it's FHG, I'll be sitting. No, I'm okay. Hang on. I sit the committee down and I sit Brendan Rodgers down and I say we have him fucking done well this in the transfer of American boys. Go away and fuck on January. Get rid of someone to shoot, fuck and fuck or whatever you've done and whatever you raise, you can boy play with or knock it in on a penny. Yeah, I can't read these conversations have to be hard, but like, like, like, if it starts the tournament when you see performances of La Lana, Balletelli, whoever. You know, change is the picture slightly. I'm like, I'm sure these conversations are going on all the time. Oh, you still won't give me a penny. And I believe that's what you're thinking about penny last January because we did. Well, we tried to spend money last January because like we missed out on Saturday. We missed out on January. No, we did. Yeah, no, we pissed about over two million quade for the fucking Ukraine. Regardless, they tried to spend money last. It just didn't happen. Okay. Would you pull five or six games on the realms together? And all of a sudden you're in a position where you're kind of sitting around. No, I agree with you. I need to push on. Yeah. Like you don't want another injury from storage and being back to square one and being reliant on Balletelli all through January. But it gets really fun. But you just go dip into phones at the club again. Are you realize this? I think you do both. Do we have to do both? We have to get rid of some of that. So, hang on. You're talking about a quick turnaround. You're talking about maybe some of the new ones. Come on. I don't know. I don't know about that. If a manager was to come in and say next summer. Well, then you can be sure certain players will be able to die. Yeah. Like another manager is not going to fancy Balletelli or whoever. And they're going to go, so it's going to raise phones. And then they're going to have to back the manager maybe give their talc and 20 millions. They are always still. So, like, whatever they'll do, you'd have to spend either way. If they're still hanging around fucking 11th, you have to spend to get themselves up there. And if they're hanging around 45th, well, they're going to need the extra push range. I think we're still 11th. There's not many fucking fix that. Yeah. No, I actually agree with you. I think you're for 11th. Then you keep your hand in your pocket and you say this season's already a fucking round. Yeah. It depends. It depends if 11th is 3 points are 4th or 11th is 11 points are 4th. True. It's very true. It's on relative. If it's case where we're talking about it, if your 3 points are 4th and you're in 11th because everyone is shy. Yeah. If we're still playing the race to see who the less the energy moves. You know, there are 6 or 7 games in the league and going to double that thing to see. Yeah. And I'm just saying, like, if you're in the running for 4th or whatever it is. Well, you've got it. You've got it everywhere. Just hang on a sec. All I'm saying is that if you're in there and you're in there, like we do have genuine concerns, our storage is fitness, right? I think then we might, we'll make one sign and that sign and we'll be another centre forward. Someone that's similar, that can play, you know, or up front on his own. They're not going to spend on a clown because they've already got the clown. And that's Erigee who's coming in next summer. Just let's park that deal in terms of what happened with that deal, right? So they want to buy somebody, you know, like a Tevez, like somebody like even the Natale who said, maybe on a six-month deal or something like that, just to bring them in to get us to end the season. You know, something that just gives that impetus again. Absolutely. And here's the thing, right? We know this is a problem now. It's been a problem since the summer. If that player is signed by the 5th of January, then we've made the exact same mistakes that we made during the summer. And that is not identifying the weaknesses in our team and having the fucking deal done and sorted out. Yeah. And if we get to the 27th or the 28th of January and we're talking about what sort of half baked shit bag can we get in from around Europe to give us a dig out for the next six months, then it's a fundamental flaw in how we do things. Daymo, if we end up getting a few half baked shit bags and our season goes to part and we don't finish in the top four, Dean is wondering, and it's a fair question because it's a big topic conversation. Has Rogers up to this point earned enough credit to get more time? Has he built up enough goodwill? And that if we finish outside the top four, that he keeps his job, basically? Let me just say, this isn't Colin Rogers' head, but if we finish so far out and we don't get anywhere near Ford, after spending a loss amount of money in the summer, don't care what you don't last season. The manager's always judged on the season that he has. If he goes and wins the leg, he wins the cup, or he has two or three seasons like that, fine. You can come and get a bit of leeway, but I think we regress so much this season and what we bought and actually how we're playing, it's like you're looking at a saying, did we throw more money at this manager? Did we help him out? Did we sit and wait? We keep regressing as bad as we did. I know we progress so much last year, but regression this year is just frightening. How badly have we gone back? So where are you going with that? What's your goal? Well, we might go on with this. If we finish out of this head, he's gone. He's gone. I don't want him gone because I actually do genuinely. So you'd like to see him give him a chance to introspect. Yeah, but I do think in the business sense of football, he really let the chop. Phil, you've been saying a few words of harsh variety lately by Brandon. Many harsh words. Poor Brandon. Where do you stand that question? I think if we, it all depends on how many points of top four if we don't finish into top four it is. Oh, right. Okay. So you've got some sort of mathematical equation. It's not a mathematical equation. Basically, if we're not in the runner for top four this year and if we don't land on top four, his job is in trouble, if we're not in the runner for top four. We're not challenging. Yeah. If we're not even close to top four, then I can't see him last. You can't see him last. Now, to be honest with you, look, I know this sounds harsh. I know we've lost Suarez and it's been a big impact on us, but you know, we did spend a lot of money. Okay. We spent and we spent big money and we haven't. But at the same time, I think if he does last, if he does last, right? You're it, Steve. The first one I went for and then I just decided to go... No, if we do last. Sorry, if he does last. If he does last and we don't finish anywhere near top four, then fundamentally, I think the decision to put a director football or sport and director is put in place and they put the original type of structure that they wanted there because he loses that power. He's lost crowd. Can I just put this on? No, because I was actually gone. Can I just put a bit of perspective on this, right? We changed. We changed. Managers a lot over the last few years. Rodgers was kind of brought him to the idea. It's long term. He's young. He wants to build a kind of dynasty there. You know, we've got all the ideas and everything. We were spoiled last year. Yeah. So if we had a made steady progress last year and then this year made steady progress, you have to look back two years. Where we were. Yeah. Like, if you made a kind of five, six point, seven points improvement and then all of a sudden in five years time, we're a title challenging team. Well, then you said, like, you know, then he would have been given time if you made steady progress because you're spoiled last year. And now we're fucking totally shy. We're all caught. Like, you know, we're all in our all of our heads, including myself. We're kind of wondering. Do we give this manager time? But put it perspective, you know, bad, bad, bad, bad. What's happened to your mouth? What's bad bees and. Yeah. Okay. I don't understand you. You're actually good. That's brilliant. That's really nice. Yeah. As always. Yeah. I think for me, it's, it's a case whereby it's not so much about the place that we finish in this season. I know football is a, you know, a results focus business or whatever else, but I think it's, it's what we see from him over the next few months in terms of. Because listen, you can have mitigating factors that create a great season or a bad season. It's whatever, you know, injuries caused your art to be changed into that shape. We went on a run of fucking what was a 13 games in a row, winning 13 games, 13 wins in a row. That was, that was just, that was fucking once, once every decade kind of stuff. So you've got to forget that sort of stuff. What you want to see is how does he deal with the issues we're in? Yeah. How does he get us out of them? How does he look at the players he signed and how does he, how does he deal with them? Does he, does he find a way of fitting them in? Are we able to improve our defensive frailties? Is he able to identify a system to get the best out of what we have? That's the sort of stuff that you, that you look at and you say, is he the man for us long term? Because if he's under, yeah. Are you a superstitious man? I'm not. You're not? No. So you're not afraid of ghosts? No. What would you do, Steve, if you were asked to stay in a haunted house overnight for money? That is what you would call, in the media business, a fantastic segue. In other words, shut the fuck up, Steve. That's going on to the next question, if you wouldn't mind their chief. So, what would I do? I'm not a superstitious man. Am I in the mood of staying in what's supposed to be a haunted house? No, because I'm a non superstitious windy cunt. That's what I find myself as. Not even really a big fan of the dark, if I'm on it. Never mind fucking ghosts. Does it have to be on your own? It has to be on your own. This is actually, it's a good one. Say money. No, no, no, no. It's for the sake of it. That's from Paul. Paul just wanted to know. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. It's for the sake of it. Would you? Who do you reckon, Phil? I think I'd eat Dave Thomas for us. Oh, he's up. He'd be like your man out of the Monty Poitins Holy Grail. Do you remember when you chopped the arms off and just kept? I'm back here! He'd still be talking and talking. Do you get your value over his man? He'd be really positive. He'd be really positive. Don't worry about lads. The boat's coming next week. The boat, yeah. I've got no way. I know. I know. I know. I know. I think I heard a plane. I think. Fuck off! I'm hungry! You're okay now. That's how I sing your song. Love you, Dave. Love you, Dave. Love you, Dave. Love you, Dave. Love you, Dave. Love you, Dave. Right, okay. This is from Simon to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Question. He says I'm over this and he's dead right because I don't like him better this year. But basically, who's your favorite? Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. Ralph, I am from me. He's your favorite. Well, he's probably one of my favorites because funny enough, I'm 32 years of age. He doesn't look at the turtles anymore and I have no interest in going to see this new movie either. Well, I was when I was eight. I failed. But why? I don't know. Because that was his favorite. Because he wore a red fucking thing around his eyes. Do you have a reason why someone's your favorite? No, honestly, I just... Because he had those... Genuinely. See, I came home from Canada in 1991 and they were called the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles in Ireland, which was fucking weird. People don't remember that. Why they were called the Hero Turtles. I don't know. But that's what they were called. Genuine Ninja Turtles. But when I was in Canada, I just remembered like in your man Naphel, and I never watched them again after I came home. Fair enough. Once I saw them called Hero Turtles, I wouldn't watch them here because they were clearly even monsters. That seems only fair. They were just normal turtles, the talk. They're like mega blocks instead of lego. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. Oh, he never really looked. I knew the turtles. But the character he had in the Casey Jones, he was going with a hockey stick. He was actually always the best. He was a bit like a man. He told him to be a man at the Halloween. Was it? [laughter] Do you mix up your meals when you get a takeaway, or do you stick to what you know or what you're like? I tend to stick to what I know. Like if I'm ordering from the place that I normally, like if it's somewhere you're going to all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Like if I go to Mel, I get the beef with black bean sauce and noodles and extra beef. You just know it. I see it. It's beef. It's beef. That's kind of how it depends on it. It's important I keep my protein intake up. My personal trainer tells me this. Yeah. Yeah. It's beef with the extra beef. Would you like some rice? No, no. Extra beef. No, no, no. Extra beef. It depends on what you're going on, doesn't it? Like in all these, a lot of these new toy takeaways are brilliant. There's loads of lovely stuff in there. So what are you being tried? Are you trying to do it? I'm trying to do it. I'm trying to do it. I'm trying to do it. I'm trying to do it. I'm trying to do it. I'm trying to do it. I'm trying to do it. I'm trying to do it. I'm trying to do it. It's a beef with the extra beef. Like, whatever is the strongest flag, like a cori, like it's just. Whatever masks the flavour is. Anything with loads of chilli flakes in it, like I said, just something. I have an extra acid on that. It's a bit like it depends on the mood you're taking. If you're going hungover, you don't need to be making decisions when you get there. It's just like, I know what I want. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. No, no, no, no. You just said when you leave the house when you're hungover. Yeah. That's a good point. That's a good point. That's just good. Oh, you find a mate that will bring you McDonald's. I happen to have one, and he's fucking brilliant. Bring him home over to bits. You want to watch your football? Yeah, yeah. Maybe he's been by McDonald's on the way home. Okay. That works. That works for you. Kevin Sullivan, you're a legend. He's not going to be listening to this once he's in a blue shirt. That fucking sounds like a top man. But I think that's important. What? Familiarity when you're hungover. It depends. If you're going for a takeaway, if you want something nice in the house that will govern what you go for, because then you might go for something a bit different. When you're hungover, you don't need decision-making processes. It's literally different. Yeah. Point that, man. Damn. Grease. The bag of grease and vinegar. We finished with some admin Irish listeners who like to play football. You come and do so at Astro Park, book your Astro Park. Pitch time at Astro Park.ie. On our website, lcdatrippers.com. We've got a lot of articles there at the moment. Some really, really good writers. So get on and you can link directly to the show from there. We want to thank our guest tonight, Rory Smith from The Times, whose feature on Brandon Rogers is available in the 442 weekly, which is online magazine, and it's available on iOS and Android. Your day trippers tonight were Andy Young, Steven Daly, Damien Flood, Phil Casey, and myself, Trevor Downey. We moved seats. This is not a joke. A half time we moved seats because we were standing watching on a big screen, but we've got to see tech gets on through the half time. So I was watching this screen. And she says the one that adds. That's what time is it there? How much is gone? And they were like 68 minutes. And they were sitting beside me like this, right? How the fuck do you know that? He goes, "It says it on the screen." And I swear, they swear in my flight. I looked at the screen. I couldn't see Liverpool's name. I couldn't see chess. I couldn't see no long was gone in the match. Like, everything was just gone, Rory. It was like I had my eyes crossed, right? And I was there watching. And I just realized that no matter what was happening in the match for that last 22 minutes, I didn't know. I could just see red and blue. Like, just my body just shut down and just ride it that I only need. My sight wasn't as important as keeping my heart beat. I was like, "I only got limited resources." You know, it's not energy for one shot, you just. I didn't say it would work. The last one I could make on you was going... Modern leaders. 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Swearing Warning- you’ve been WarnedRight so we have to analyse yet another Liverpool defeat. What started off so well descended into a another shambles with the usual culprits letting the club down yet again. We speak to Rory Smith of The Times on Brendan Rodgers, his future and should he under pressure. Rory has written about Brendan in the feature article of the new online publication FourFourTwo weekly which is going to be a must for any football fan. http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/football-weekly-free-fourfourtwoWe close with haunted houses, cannibalism and January transfer window questions.
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