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It's a way to remind your loved one of a beautiful moment every time They see it blue Nile can help you find the gift that says how you feel and says it beautifully with expert guidance and a wide assortment of jewelry of the highest quality at the best price go to blue Nile calm and Experience the convenience of shopping blue Nile the original online jeweler since 1999 That's blue Nile calm to find the perfect jewelry gift for any occasion blue Nile Calm if your loved one is at risk of a fall the symphony medical alert system from CVS health can help support their safety in their home with 24/7 emergency monitoring even when you can't be there terms and conditions apply learn more about symphony at cvs.com/ symphony or Find it at your nearest CVS health hub So let's say you're in Tioga or Pilates or maybe you dabble in gymnastics like me either way You know being flexible is key to doing what you love That's why smoothie keen created this stretch and flex smoothie for people like us With whole fruits and organic veggies plus type 2 collagen make it part of your daily fitness routine to support flexibility and joint health So try the stretch and flex smoothie and tart cherry or pineapple kale order online today for pickup or delivery smoothie king rule the day Okay, next up is our look at Liverpool's financial situation vis-a-vis fair play regulations We took as our inspiration for this feature an article from beyond the cop size by Nazarad Gama Ned Thompson Which attempted a projected analysis of Liverpool regard to the financial impact of commercial revenue Also player transfers in and out of LFC the article then try to provide a narrative projected income statement for the financial year of 2013 2014 So we're looking tonight to be able to speak directly with that and thanks for joining us tonight Hey, thanks for asking me First off at your site financial fair play.com.uk is dedicated to new financial regulations and are in place And Liverpool FC you put themselves alongside Arsenal in the vanguard of pro FSP lobby since the arrival of SSG Are Liverpool becoming poster boys for FSP or are they hindering themselves in your opinion by hitching their wagon? So publicly to this particular set up Now I don't think that they're hindering themselves in any way I mean, you know, let's face it the rules have come in so everybody's gonna have to to comply with the rules and You know, I think that there's an element of self-interest amongst the local owners to be honest that You know, nobody wants to be in a position where you're losing 30 40 million pounds every year and Actually the financial fair tables will mean that now with this new TV deal that the club should really be on a kind of way to look at Actually start to kind of break even and you know, perhaps even make a profit as well. So I think there's some extra self-interest in it in there as well and also having said that there's also a piece of It often doesn't as much as these rules will help the club, you know, in They will put the breaks as we sing on, you know, clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea and Howie Sunshine Man and other clubs You have been spending very freely. They'll put the breaks on them and that will kind of improve the competitive position of Liverpool Sure. So basically the way you're looking at there's a certain element of self-interest there from FSP's point of view from the club's point of view, do you see Liverpool benefiting ultimately from sticking rigidly to the rules and unlike being to the fore And pushing them or do you see it as something that could ultimately be a negative for the club? Oh, no, I can't see any weight a bit there negative for the club to be honest them It's hard to predict the future. I mean, that is the the difficult part here, you know, if we knew what was going to happen to the club in the future, if the club could guarantee on Champions League and Conway, it became 30 million pounds a year, you know, if he knew what was going to happen with new sponsorship deals, if he knew what was going to happen with future TV deals, then perhaps you know, it would be a much clearer position, but unfortunately you can. So I think from actual play you should play to Liverpool's advantage in as much as you've got to balance your inquiries and outgoings and the people have a very strong international fund base they're able to write. It's very large commercial deals, you know, that their current deal is huge. So they see the benefit of that and so providing they can effectively get into the Champions League, which, you know, they may well do this this season, then I think the future does look pretty bright for the club to be honest. Excellent. There's something, there's a statement in the article that really took me by surprise that I just want to run a party before I let the other guys ask you a few questions. And the statement was pretty stark. A reference to the mythical net spend figure, which is largely irrelevant. Now for most people they think they're on the coding edge if they're quoting net spend, they seem to think that it's very much where it's at. Could you explain the rationale behind the statement that net spend is actually a mythical idea? Yes, it's a bit it's a bit complicated. So don't dig off because it's a little bit too and talk about accounts here. But the way all this much with our play will basically require broadly clubs to break even. Okay, so what is breaking even? Well, you know, you would expect it to be well, you know, you know, you're spending and you know what incomes you've got and it should be a fairly easy process. However, when we look at football clubs, the big expenditure is on transfer fees. And so actually the way that the UEFA's rules and the countency rules work, all that the money spent on a player has to be written off over a number of years. So if, you know, take the famous signing of Torres, when under Torres, it cost about 50 million pounds. He was signed by Chelsea on a five year deal. Well, actually, in terms of the accounts, that didn't get recorded as a minus 50, 50 million pounds in year one. Because he was on a five year deal, it actually records as a, as a minus 10 million pounds for each of the next five seasons. And so, you can spend a lot of money on a on a on a player would actually not have a huge impact on the bank accounts that year. And then the reason I also get a bit messy is, you know, what happens when you come to sell a player? Well, actually, if if if you sell it, once you sell a player, actually, whether you've made a profit or a loss in the accounts is all dependent on what we call the book value and it kind of gets a bit nitty gritty and potentially boring, some people, but when you, when you've got the player like the Torres, who bought, who bought 50 million pounds in books of the club, he gets written down at 10 million pounds a year as a cost. And after two seasons, he's actually sitting in there as a book value of 30 million pounds. And then once you sell the player, if they sold a player on, but actually, if they sold him from more than 30 million pounds, they'd be called about as a profit in that year. And if they sold it for less than 30 million pounds, it would be a loss. So you can see, actually, you can get to a position where you can sell a player for well less than you bought them for, but actually, we called it as a profit in that year. It gets quite complicated. I mean, Carol, perhaps, is an example closer to people's hearts, you know? Well, we brought him to 35 million, I believe it was, and sold him for, I think it was 17 million, but actually, by the time the book was sold, sold the player, he had a book value of about 17 million pounds. Anyway, in terms of the impact in the accounts for that year, nothing. Actually, the club is better off without them because they aren't then having to write down another chunk of money for the next year, and then obviously, they don't have to pay as wages. So it gets all a bit messy. So you can't quite look at the finance of the club and say, well, you know, we've had this much money coming in, and we've spent this on new players. You may kind of have to need to understand the whole position of the club. Another example is what happens at Manchester City, where they actually spend quite heavily in the summer, but up until the last, I think, one or two players spends, they were actually recording a net break even on the whole deal, just because of the fact that they'd let some players go, they were no longer having to write down their contract fee of saving money on wages. So it all gets a bit messy. So this, you know, you can't just look at, you know, next spend. You need to look at the whole position, and that's where it gets really messy. You know, he's able to, you know, he's able to, sure, sure. So basically, the armchair experts who've been quoting that spend are completely clueless. Can I ask if you wouldn't mind the field? It's got a question for you now, Ed. Ed, how are you? It's still here. Listen, I was a bit fascinated reading your own site on financial fair play, and also the information's in other words. Around the idea that the debt for equity conversion and that a owner, where a loss is above the permitted loss for the year, can actually convert that to equity in the club, and not actually have, well, can attain the break-even status that's set down in financial fair play. I suppose, at a simple term for me, I'm trying to figure out, could that mean that sugar daddy owners like Abramovich or Shikman Sore, et cetera, could theoretically, year-on-year, break the rules around financial fair play for making a profit or coming in with the acceptable loss remains and continue to just convert to equity to cover whatever spend they wanted to do? No, it doesn't quite work like that. There's an element up to what you are right. The idea of the way for financial fair play rules are that clubs are break-even broadly, you manage the incoming and outgoing, so that's a kind of straightforward concept. But the way that they've looked at the rules is, actually, to be fair, you need to break-even over. We won't look at break-even over one season in UEFA. We'll do it over two or three seasons because that makes sense. Something might have happened one season and not the other. I guess that's kind of how they approach it. And then they say, actually, although we say you've got to break-even, well, it's not quite break-even. We'll allow you to lose over those – what the initial period was two seasons. Over the first two seasons, you can lose five million euros. We'll let you lose five million euros. And there's no sanction if you lose up to five million because it's not that much. However, we'll actually, having said that, we'll allow you to go up to 45 million euros loss over those two seasons. So, as long as you've got a sugar daddy owner who can inject equity into the club to cover and think over the five million pounds up to the 45 million euros up to the 45 million euros. So, I thought this was getting a bit complicated, but basically what it's saying over the first two years, you can lose 45 million euros, which is about 37 million pounds. But only you can only go over this five million euros limit and go up to the 45 million maximum if the owner is prepared to inject equity. And what that means inject equity means that, in effect, the club creates new shares and the owner then buys the shares. And he has to buy the shares for the amount of the equity. And this, for example, it would be whatever's over five million euros up to 45 million. So, you know, it could be putting in 40 million euros or whatever it could be. And then that money then goes into the club. That money goes into the club and the club's debt don't increase. And that's the idea behind this, but you don't want the club's debts to increase. And what's the only got to show for what he's got some more shares more bits of paper. Well, he would have had 100% of the shares in the club anyway. So having more shares actually doesn't help him in any way. The only way he'll ever get the money back on that is if the club sell, he sells the club for profit or with the club actually report, you know, the report to profit from, you know, trading and then actually it can pay himself a different down to the money. It kind of ties his money in. What the rules say you're not allowed to do is, whereas we saw in the past clubs were just one of big debts, although the bank more money and living on overdrafts in effect, they're no longer able to do that. If they go over the five million euros, they can only go up to 45 million euros lost over those two seasons and only then if the owner actually sticks his hand in the pockets and puts that money into the club. Just to put in there, right? It's the bit that I'm trying to get my head around. Is that is it only for those two seasons? What I'm wondering is, at the end of the two seasons, can he continue to put it? Is there a 44 million sort of spread that they have? Or does it finish there and you've only got a five million loss which you can run regardless of whether you're going to convert for the losses to equity is which. It's a rolling process. After that, then it looks at the next three seasons. But then the threshold is then reduced that the owner can put in. After the first two seasons, when it's 45 million euros or the first two seasons, then it looks at three seasons and it's like 45 million over those three seasons. And then it cuts down to 30 million over three seasons if that's right. Yes. So it's reducing all the time. And now, I mean, the point is where we are now in this season, say for Liverpool, for example, is for this season, next season and the season after Liverpool's average loss has to be below eight million pounds a season. That's all it can be. And that isn't very much when you consider that they historically lost over 30 million plus 40 million, which significantly higher figures. But now, the maximum loss and that's including the money the owner can put in an equity is only around eight million pounds a season. So, the things have changed and the big losses that we have seen are going to be reduced and the ability for the owner to stick their hand in the bucket and really directly kind of start tapering out now and they're not really able to do that. Okay, cheers. That's interesting stuff. Steve here is a question for you if that's okay. Yeah, just something based upon what you said there. So I was just listening back and it's great to hear somebody give a good in-depth analysis of the FFP situation. But will this eventually stop the likes of, let's take Ray on Madrid, for example, who in the past have, as you said there a moment ago, run of massive debts and been bailed out left, right and center, whatever reasons may have been given for it. Will that eventually stop this form of profit hearing, so to speak, from a club like that? If it's got the balance, let's say, where in Madrid are a bit weird in as much as they've got advantages, so if remembered in particular they've got advantages because the TV deal in Spain is negotiated on an individual level. So they get all the TV money, basically, but huge amounts get caught between Barcelona and Real. So they've also got big tax advantages as well. So they get huge amounts, huge advantages anyway, being global brands, they're then able to write huge commercial deals, so the commercial deals that you see at the very top clubs that are, you know, anything increasing. So things are potentially about to change in Spain, so we've seen that they might not be able to write individual commercial deals, they might have to pull the deals, then the tax advantage might change, so it's a bit weird what's happening in Spain. I guess what we are saying, I guess going back to the question is, you know, will we see clubs that were being burnt off by sugar daddy owners or will we see that ball changing in the answer is very much yes, it has to, you know, as long as we assume that you are for serious about the rules and we haven't yet seen what kind of punishment they're going to apply for overspending, then the landscape has to change, and you can argue it already has for many clubs. There's a few who've kind of like almost buried the head in the sand, actually, we're just hoping it'll go away, but I'm not at the interesting point to see what happens there. Ed Hayden, Stephen Brown here, and just a quick one for Ed, more you question is obviously it's been driven by Platinny and UEFA, and what happens when Platinny steps up to become the FIFA president, which looks like it will be the next step for him. Are you going to keep pushing this as stringently as they will while Platinny is away, and also as a second part of our question, what will prevent, or is there any prevention measures being taken for clubs in different leagues, such as Quatar or any of the Middle Eastern clubs or Argentina, Brazil, that could go and spend the money that are obviously round-rated and so on, and spend every season? Well, I guess in terms of the big question is, I'll see this all about it. I mean, Platinny and his deputy both nailed their colors the most on an FSP. If I can't see Platinny going, you know, step to the interview, you read all the interviews, and they're so weighted to it, that the change in Platinny at the top. Assuming you see this and dedicated to it, which is a likely scenario, then actually there's no change. And also the important thing about the UEFA FFP rules is that they're actually voted in by the clubs, the European club associations, and voted them in. So, to have somebody then at the top, they're actually then kind of going back on it and trying to change it would be very difficult. You know, there's a lot of very strong clubs within Europe, particularly German clubs, very, very strong advocates of FFP. You know, the European club association is headed up 5.5 by Remeniga. It is part of the DNA of UEFA now, and I can't see that changing. You know, still the debate is how strongly it's going to punish clubs who can preach the rules. But just on that bit, is that because it benefits the bigger clubs in real terms, that FFP allows rich clubs to stay rich, and it's harder actually for the smaller clubs to become big clubs, because they can't have that sugar that the owner come in and spend 200 million, 300 million in one goal to turn them into a super club. Now, interestingly, I don't think it is, because if that had been the case, then the European club association, which is a huge number of clubs represent across Europe, the vast majority of whom do not have this should be that the only scenario have voted for the rules to come in. And so, the argument there appears to be, the reason why the clubs are voted in is that, by and large, the vast majority often are opposed to concepts where they are crossed into position where they have to overspend in order to succeed. And traditionally, you know, you look at some of the places that come up Holland and Germany. You know, what happened in Chelsea and Manchester City and Paris and German? It's really deeply unpopular across a lot of clubs in Europe. And, you know, in each of, you know, you look at Holland, you know, it used to be Belgium. It used to be actually challenging at the top level in European football, and it's just not, it hasn't been possible for it recently. And one of the things that there's clubs appeared not for light was the, you know, the concept of having to spend huge amounts of money in order to succeed. And what, you know, is if you don't have a sugar that owner or if you're restricted in being able to have one, which is the case in lots of clubs in terms of Germany. And for example, then, you know, they're not able to succeed and they would quite like, you know, the FFP rules to come in and stop that. One very last question. I suppose one form the pain that people have around FFP is that if you don't comply, you're out of European competition. It's, yeah, that isn't the case. And I'm not even thinking, like, there's a good chance that if you don't comply with FFP, you're going to get a warning and then slap on the nookles before hunting series happens. I mean, I guess that's the way people don't really know yet. What was on this? You have issued punishments and they've issued nine sanctions and they said that any club that failed to break even test will receive one of the sanctions. Those sanctions are raised range from a warning up to a full, you know, exclusion from European competition and kind of in the middle, they include things like a potentially a punch deduction when you're in the Champions League group stage or the locally group stage or all the diction in the number of players that you can register for your European competition. So there's a kind of various levels of punishments that can apply. Although we know what the punishments are, what we don't have yet is a tariff of how those punishments will be applied and your life has kind of been shying away from that, I think, because, ultimately, the US will argue that it's marching, then there's going to be issuing the punishments, they set up an independent body, which will determine whether or not clubs have breached the rules and then they'll determine what rules will be applied. And they've done that so that the US can be at arm's length for many of the punishments that they're imposed on the club, because ultimately the clubs can then appeal to cash. Now, what's happened under that, I mean, we talk about FFP and we talk about break-even, we're constantly with that concept, but actually, in the whole FFP rules, it also includes requirements for clubs to stay up to date with their taxes and their transfer fees paid to other clubs and it is called payables. And this is considered overdue payables as part of the FFP rules. As you may fact, through that this independent board have already sanctioned a number of clubs and banned them from European competitions for falling behind on their tax bills, basically. And so they've already applied outright bans in European competitions, so we haven't yet seen what bans they're going to or punishments they're going to apply for overspend. But the punishments the board have applied have been very severe, so we don't really know and we won't know until April next year what punishments will be applied to clubs and the general of clubs will be looking at that very nervously. So the clubs are going to be very sanctioned, man, who have effectively failed a break-even test. It's a tangled, tangled web and it's basically what you're telling us, especially with Platinny. Listen, your gentleman, we really enjoyed that, it's been very insightful. Thank you so much for the opinions and the answers. And get on, get on Edge website. Absolutely. To find out where I played up out at UK, if you want more info around it. Thanks a lot, everybody. Many thanks for enjoying it. Thank you. Appreciate it, bye-bye. It's a preview. Okay, very good. Let's get started. Briefly, I want to introduce our guest, Nyl Barnall. And thank you, Nyl, for coming into us today. Nyl, a former Liverpool player at Youth International. We're very, very lucky to have him. And we're just going to ask some of the guys here to pop a few questions towards Nyl that they've been thinking about during the week. So, Phil, I'll start with you if you have a question for Nyl, if the guy's gone. Yeah, I suppose not. I remember you coming up to the ranks because you were one of the first, sort of big, sort of kids going over from Ireland to Liverpool in the times of the school where there is. And I knew you coming through the ranks at Lourdes, as well. Just, I remember even asking it beforehand was, that's your, you know, time prior to down away now. When the skeleton and all was happening at the time, where you know it in fear was more close than just Liverpool in fear. And what's the way of the decision for Liverpool at the time? Well, I suppose it was the first where we went to, you know, when we went to Lourdes, around the far day and age group, things happened very quickly. You know, and the guy just had to be appointed to head scale at the time. So, he'd been then, not in the far scale, and he'd sent away the looks of Roy Kay and so on. He was just out there getting the Liverpool job, and it was actually the first while he sent away. So, he couldn't watch us one or two, which is, you know, we're in six months ago into Lourdes. It was on a plane over to England, and I think it was there for a week, the first week, and I was just, you know, going to put the place, you know. So, there was clubs after that, you know, probably having told me UK, we were in the size of six months, wanted me to go out work. You know, it came in for me, you know, being at the time, mad Manchester, you know, you'd find people probably couldn't understand me, but how'd you go to Lourdes? Just, you go to Lourdes, a special place, you know, and they went to there, you're set up there, and you meet people. It's hard to have to sit right when it goes tomorrow, you know, and I was facing it. Once we went to Lourdes, I was there, didn't want to go anywhere else. How many trials, after the initial Liverpool trial, which, as you said, was the first one, how many other clubs did you go to? No. So you didn't go to Lourdes, you just had your mind saying, "Yeah, I went to Lourdes, I think it was February '94, for a week. I stayed there for a week, played them after the end of the weekend, so I asked them, "Dilla, the funny thing is my dollars are $1.5,000 to $1.5,000 to $1.5,000." So, I figured out when I ended the week, we played Villa, I think we beat them two and they asked me to sign after the match, and I was in. Commence, it's been going around. So when you came back then, the club's obviously approached the parents now, because it would have been 14 at that point. What was the process like in terms of, you know, how long was the negotiation before you knew you were going? Back then, I'm not looking at you in that long, but it was actually a proud envelope right here. The funny thing is, nowadays the type of kids going away are majoring. You go to remember at the time, Lourdes were Lourdes, they don't have the people in place back then. Like, now we have people in the back, the contracts for kids that go away, and you know, people don't know what to talk about. Back then, there was nobody. Or is that Dublin airport, or remember, when it was 14, and they all shared me own contract with Steve Boyway. I'm my own. So, you know, I saw him be looked like a boom, it's basically a ton of people. Yeah, and I think at the time, when they went to give us a Saturday, grab our remuneration, it was in for them, it was a set of jerseys, it was offered up for worse than them. I think the events he got to move to a couple of thousand, but compared to what's going on now was. You know, it was just strange because they probably got away, they got close on the trial. And had that bargaining chip, you know, I mean, at the time, it didn't really interest me, you know what I mean? I wasn't, I want to go for a big money artist that knew about where the contract was going. Maybe it's also the point that I was at that point, there wasn't a money in the game. Well, the game wasn't when you driven it. Yeah, as it is now. It wasn't when you started. Yeah, it was probably the first superstar out of championship era, so that he hadn't even really kept on at that stage. And we'd come back to the movie set, so I think, two people that went on went on, went back to the club, worked in the lines themselves. And we went on a cool bus to fully play for over here, got on the ground a piece. Yeah, I thought it was ten years ago. Yeah, so ten years ago, on the ground, I had a lot of money. You can only imagine what it is now, that there are people in specific schools that are just there. Their sole target is to get two or three young guys up in the end of the year. Yeah. And that's where they keep their jobs. And it's not a part of my job. It's a full-time paid position in certain clubs. And I was glad that you actually got into even though you were only with the words for six months, the task that you actually negotiated on contract. You know, the words you've been involved in, it's alien never, is it so? So, coming back to, like, you know, go sit and contract. The parents obviously happy enough for you to go over. They couldn't like you already. Well, when you, so you get out, the course of shopping must be huge. For a kid who raised it to leave Dublin, leave your family, leave the surroundings, your friends, the works, right? And pitch open to other people. Now, as I said, you took to the city in the whole lot. What was it like to, there must have been... You might have to, like, I mean, you have to remember back then, and you tried to have kids that go away now. There's no Facebook, there's no be able to, or, generally, keep in touch with your mates. None of that. So, I think after I went over the fourth time, I started going over patches, like, two weeks here, three months there. Yeah. During the summer and so forth, and then I think I'm going over full-time and around July '94. So, it was a little year after I went over the fourth time. That was just a case of, you know, finish the junior set and off you went, you know, and, yeah. The funny thing was, you know, we came from big family. The sixth was, you know, you're mad at one for no AR at all times. And I think the fourth house I knew I've been over there. The landlady was about seventy-four. She used to have about a half-seven, I know you. That was eight years ago. [laughter] It was a close shock to say the least, but, you know, the homesick team comes into it as well. So, you can't keep in touch with your mates. There's no mobile phones texting everyone back then. It sounds like it was about fifty years ago. You know, you didn't have that. If you want to make a phone call, you'll get down to the phone box. Throw a pen coin and it lasts for a thirty seconds and that was it. You know what I mean? So, it was that party. You probably didn't see, you know, right here from your mates, you're going to trail for a one to a time. You know what I mean? For a young time. So, it was tough. Big emotional, too. When you did move all over Italy, as I said, the relevant dates, how well did the club look after you personally? From the first point of the year, we were going to see, obviously, you had to train and then what you were doing with the club. Well, did the club pay any attention to you as a person rather than as a player? Well, in fairness, as opposed they did, because the pay for dates, obviously, when you walk, well, we lived on Anfield Road. The big old house is the face of the Anfield Road and that's where we lived. And to start off, there was two of us there. Then the second year, I think there was six of us on orders. You know? When they could talk about it, they were wearing the fracture there in their own or a young lad. So, they would organize it, come up and pick you up and bring you off to the cinema or that sort of so-called man. At the end of the day, they are still looking at seventy-four, eight percent of their time, sitting there in their own in the digs. You know what I mean? It's fairly lonely and special at that age. Well, I was interested in the idea that nowadays with the academy structure that they put in place, they started to re-emphasize education and the whole lot that's involved with the kids. What level of emphasis would put on the education for you boys? Because you left the journey set, which may have driven the GCSEs and England, I'd say, right? Yeah. And what's the more emphasis, like, as you're in, you're in, you're training with the club and the whole lot. What was the typical day like for you? Well, typical day, probably grew up by half-seven, half-eight. I had to be all around the reception and I got picked up by Samilé every morning, give him a hand, go on to the cobblers to fix the four-frame players' boots, which I'm sure wouldn't happen nowadays. Down to Melwood, you have your job. You run away to your scheme, your training scheme at the time. So, you basically were, you know, designated the job, but it was boots, clean in the medical room. Wherever you had to deal, saddle to kick in the four-frame, that was your morning. The four-frame roll, they're not ten o'clock. You roll back, held the dressing rooms. Like I said, ready, and I'm trying to probably half-twelve. How'd you launch it? That was it. The four-frame roll, double sessions never really happened, you know? Yeah. And remember, at the time, you know, we coined the scene as wool to a certain extent, and we'd be kind of going home about half-twelve-quarter one, and there's a couple of foreign Scandinavians there at the time, and they'd be going back out in the afternoon, you know, to practice their torture list, and we'd be walking out, kind of, leading god-shakes, you know? It's not going to be an antelope, you know? Yeah, yeah. You look pretty busy, of course, you know? Yeah, yeah. We're all heading after the snow, but I don't know what happened. You know, it was crazy. I think, in terms of the education, you know, one half-day a week on a tourist day, and we don't aspire to management costs, which is completely useless at the time. You know, it was just a piss-take. We went there in until, for about two or three hours on a tourist day, and you got some sort of piece of paper at the end of the same equality. It was crazy. It was probably a year and a half when the economy was built around change. It was a case of, you know, the full-time education people there, and stuff like that, and I'm sure it's kicked down a million times more than I was terrible. Even I thought it was still maybe a day a week, Max, you know? I went there just left at the time, and the education maybe, you know, started to come to jail and be more fun than not full-time, but a lot of the time was taken over. So you were there 14 to 20, guys? Was it? Are they left around one or nine days? No, I think, yeah. So, in other words, the first four years are so more that routine that you just got? Yeah, yeah, more or less, yeah. I know that was the point of the change over a more or less kind of layer with the economy being built down in Caribbean. You know, the time, I haven't been back in the middle since I've left, but at the time, it wasn't very glamorous, you know? It was literally change rooms, content, boot room, pictures, and that was it. The gym was dinosaurs stuff, you know? Because there wasn't a lot of emphasis on the gym work back then. And obviously, the foreign colleges came in and probably seen a change when Huele came in at the time. When I went down the floor, seamless had just been sacked. Ravens has just got the job. Then later on, with Ravens and Huele, then he, when I went down the corner, it was just Huele, the more the foreign players and the foreign members came over, things started to change and the training and the things. And obviously, it went into the continuing enforcement door. You know, you're a narrative now with the chicken bores and chips and all sorts of stuff there for the first place when it comes to those games. You know what I mean? It was crazy. But it was real, you know, seeing the pictures available nowadays and it's this big state, yard place. And I said, "At the time, it was fairly basic. You went in, you're doing your jobs." And, you know, there was no two ways of ever, like, "Oh, yeah, remember, I had a job cleaning the treatment room. I had to complete the antibacterial stuff everywhere." And Michael had always the physio at the time. And I think he didn't do that properly. I remember twice getting phone calls when I was packing the digs. And I'm feeling all the time, "Get your ass back down there." He didn't do a problem. You'd have to get a two buses. Back to now and go back in with them up and book them. I finished a challenge back to the house. You know, I mean, if that sort of stuff just wouldn't happen now, it's, you know, I think it's all segregated. The force can try in there, having me try in there. You know, at the time, it's never going to be said for that, though. In comparison to the way people say that football is a pamper name. You see the stories. They've all got little issues. They just seem to have to be in there with a ball. Well, look at me. I've spoke to kids that have gone away, you know, we'd get them a piece of the boys where it was looking. You went to Oregon and stuff. Well, as you say, the money on the team's kids are going away now. You're talking million Euro close deals. Yeah. You're thinking people are going over. They're still there. You know what I mean? Well, at the time, it was the case that you literally were a part of the team. You're doing a work. You've got the boot ready for the players. And also, you have the closest with the players at the time, you know? So, I mean, in that way, you're putting a full form of the players. You're training with everybody. You have a game. You team against the force team. The force team will play our team that are going to play in the Saturday. You've got to rush out and stuff. Tell us the play in the way. Where are we going to play? You know? Right. That's all the stuff is bringing. But that won't be moved up to the economy. That was time away from it. You know, you're literally just trying to take it. You're with that group only. Yeah. Exactly, yeah. Yeah. So, you've settled in. You have your return on the whole lot, right? What was it like in terms of the progression truly? How quickly did you feel that you were embedded in the actual team? You know, it was there is much rotation of the kids through the teams, as we see at the moment, where you'll see the six teams going to play with the 21s. Yeah. You'll see the looks of drums in Clare last year. West Brown making his debut for the 14th. Yeah. And now it may have been true and necessity, as opposed to choice. But it was starting to seem those kids rotate through all the time. You're south of the time because it wasn't the same. The emphasis wasn't on the squad or switch back then. What was it like for you looking up? What was your aspiration in the first couple of years in terms of where you were? It was funny when a force went down over, I'd say it was 15. So, obviously, you had the A and B team. That's the way it used to be. There was no, you know, you had the A was actually still allowed with the play between the 16s, which I did on occasions, but the full-time match, you basically play for the A and the B team. And then those are the zers in the force team. So, starting off going over into like B team, A team of zers, and so on and so forth. I remember I was only over about two months, and maybe two lack of players, injuries. I don't know what happened. Brando playing in the zers were front-grains. Two months after coming all the way, that was amazing. It was only 15 at the time, you know. So, we played Mountain Forest. I remember at the time, Sammy Davis, the manager, a big job of carving us there. And I talked about turning it at the deep end. You're playing tonight. What's going to play for you? The zers are the match. We haven't got enough players here at the end, so it's fine. So, got there, and they played a former rush. You know, that was bizarre. At the time, six months before, I was playing down in some of the parts. So, you know what I mean? Lots of me own it. So, in this place, the six months, you're playing a former. So, I remember one of the best players they've ever had over there. So, I mean, that kind of was a run-off. That stays down your L with the B team. You know, some weeks, they put the sheet up on a Friday. So, I think it was quite scary. You know, you look at the C and the A team. And that sort of stuff. And when that kind of gradually phased out, they brought in the seven ends and the nine ends for the academy. So, we had started, we were starting off in the late days. It was with Barack Obama in the last day. And then he'd go in late days, reserves. So, you're talking probably last year or so. I thought it was there. It was a fairly regular in the reserves. You know? I mean, at that stage, the reserves was... I mean, the loan closure wasn't there back then. A lot of the last I would wear was set the time. Probably what it was nowadays would have gone out alone. You know, pulled from a commencing. Maybe scarring up from reserves, but take him. But back then it didn't happen. You know what I mean? It just didn't happen. So, what was the contact light between the reserve and the first team? Squads. Obviously, it was the definition of the weekends when I see... Yes. ...reserves are playing what I was starting to mourn on the first thing when I was signing off the mail. But all week, even whatever was known as well as, as you said, it would have been Friday. So, what was the interaction link when you were trying with reserves? Obviously, I thought it was going to be 70, when everyone made it. You probably weren't getting near the first thing. But what was your role in link within the group basically? Well, basically, if you're trying with reserves, you're able to send me... ...some in A, and you had a mixture of, kind of, young pro's like me south, where a couple of foresting players probably on the way out, just being pushed into reserves to get them going, but I'll keep them happy. And, you know, it was a strange atmosphere. A lot of the foresting players that come down and didn't want to be there, didn't care, journey. And then you'd have the young pro's who were trying to make an impression of both of them trying and stuff like that. And then you'd have the senior pro's looking at you, basically. You know, I'm looking down, you know, people ain't making sure I'm made. It's just kind of like, you know, where... I mean, at the time, basically, you spent your week with reserves, and then you play your game with a weekend, because literally a case of foresting players will take it off. Reserves will send off. You know, if you're going to have a fair day, you're going to be tamed up on the weekend, you know? Well, I mean, the reserve game is back then, very rarely would you play on the field. Like, a lot of the games you play in gig lane or places like that small ground, you know, where you got a decent ground at them as well. So, it was fun at the time. I mean, the reserves are tough legs, especially when they're young, you know, really tough. So, you're in the point. You're in the fish pond at the time, and you're over there. Obviously, back home, you're big. If you're mates to the area of the whole lot, you are a big man. You're playing your indoor reserves for the whole whole lot. What was it like to come back and say, play with the... Or, you know, you didn't have to switch forward. But, you know, when I got double forwards, you're coming back, playing with the six dans. Orland, you know, I'm six dans, seven dans, and up to eight dans, nine dans, twenty thousand. So, originally, you're coming back, playing with the six dans, and, you know, you've mixed them up with your eyes. I've gone off to what I've told you. So, I got to say, it looks like Robbie Keene, and Mitch is going and stuff like that. Steve McPhail, we're all around our age group. So, it was great to see them, because you knew that from Skillway, but I'm up well, man. You're talking back in the area. It was probably... a lot of players have gone away from Tyler Sinistan, but it was probably the force, kind of big marquee. So, if you like, I went to a big club, and I was a lot of the tangent folks around at the time, you know? I mean, if people often said to me, " would you not take you sort of back off going to a smaller club, start those smart builds away, you know?" Which is easy to say, this case is to be made for both ways you go. You know what I mean? But, at the time, it's very hard to turn down a group of your club, you know? My parents at the time, they haven't got clear about football. You know what I mean? So, they're not going to be there to avoid me as such. You know what I mean? So, and you go home at the weekends. Maybe every train or phone, you see your mates as much as you can, and you try and be an honorable kid on your side. There's a lot of people who want to pull up a knock at your door and say, "you guys the ticket, can you guys the jersey, can you guys the distance, do you guys die?" You know? Well, it was brilliant. I mean, we used to go back to the skills when we come home as well, see the teachers that started us off, you know? It was a big day in the area at the time. It was a time by the place that was, you know, very poor at the time, you know, yourself. So, it was a massive day. And then when you went, obviously, as you said, you're coming back and forth, and you're playing with your skillful teams. You went back all the way. How close do you think you were getting towards getting into the first day? Well, it's probably a case that every time you got a few votes, it was there. If you looked open, it doesn't look like a multi-million pound player, come into the door, you know? So, I'm sorry for you to know. What I'm trying to say is, were you thinking, well, you're starting a few votes and you're thinking, well, you need to be getting closer and closer to the first day, yeah? And how many promises were any promises made that you might get in and you might get out of bed? Well, to be honest with you, we're talking about the time. As I said, the forwards, you had Robbie Feller, you'd carry injury, but you'd rush, it was probably coming towards the end of the time. You have Mike Long, who's breaking through. You'd call him out. You know what I mean? I always look in our area of the fact that, you know, I've got to do something ridiculous here to kind of push past all that people to get. So, I've never really, I normally sound strange. I've never really sat there thinking, you know, I'm going to make the big breaks, you know, I'm going to be super-starred. Look, I was kind of always mindful at the time that I might not work over. You just might not work over. You still love the fact that you're there and playing and, you know, whether it's the reserves or the mountains or whatever. You love playing, but at the time, there's so many players ahead of you, and so many players, let's say, right at the time, was on fire. You know, I'm like a long horse under the scenes on fire, so. Well, you know, were you looking at, as I said, probably went by the same age as I did, obviously, on playing for a nice day, and she's like, "Yeah, Dave, you've never seen her, Dave." You know what I'm saying? But if that's the argument that people have, to the cast and home, you know what I mean? That if you go up, chart awards, a lot of people say, you start to offer awards and doesn't walk out. Where do you go from there? You know what I mean? A lot of people, like, I'll wait till they walk to a match or something, doesn't walk out. They'll always be picked up, generally, way off loads, you know what I mean? So, I'm afraid of stealing. He hit the ground room and took a shot. So, you mean, you're kind of like the fellow. No, no. And now, who impressed you when you were there? In terms of staff, and in terms of players. If you had to pick maybe one or feature, too. And staff was, I mean, very difficult. I get talkin' to look at Steve Hoyaway, Sammy Lee, you know, who I live up to a legend, but at the time, I didn't really know a lot about the history of the composer. So, we really, it's just Steve and Sammy, you know what it's telling you what to do. Yeah, basically. So, you don't really look up after the most piece by the way, kind of people that, like, remember, at the time I was really good friends with Alan Kennedy. I had him the key over who he was. He was so blocky from around the corner. So, many years later, I kind of found out with this kind of legend, you know. You know, that's all, that's all. Of the staff, it was very close to Sammy Lee. Right. Very close to Sammy Lee. So, he was probably the one that stood out at the staff, you know. Right. In terms of players. Byers was, again, so many top players at the time, you know, really conduct themselves and looked out for the only ones. I mean, in terms of the player, maybe in the center of Harvard, the one that stood out for me was probably Fowler, you know. Genuinely, nice fella, always had time for the kids. And, you know, just, we used to do show and practice for him. It was ridiculous. You know, ridiculous. Yeah. Left for rifle headers. Unbelievable. Yeah, the fella had a rock, you know. Yeah. So, you probably didn't press me the most. Excellent. Thanks very much. Are you a question? Is that from the lot? Yeah. I just wrote up catch. You're there. You're there. I've seen the pictures of you trying with them. Yeah. And he was wearing a pair of toilet paper shorts that looked like, and I hope that you subscribe. Because they looked like a scared rat around each leg. That's probably the best. Well, it's funny because I'm actually still a very good laser rider. So, the one of the ones that I came to touch with, that I was worried about anyway, at the time, I actually only had this conversation with someone to do today. At the time, when you went home for a pre-season break, you know you've got eight years off, you can't back your step back training. You're talking, forcing players, not just a razor, coming back a stone all the way. So, you know what I mean? And literally, the coaches at the time handed them a black bag and saying, "Trainer that for the next four weeks." Oh, yeah. You know, it was crazy stuff. At the time, you have fitness that was probably, you know, went from 100% down to 20%. And then you had the struggle for eight weeks. They got them back up again. And nowadays, they probably did 15%, 20%. And, you know, obviously you have your turn off, it's important. The pros nowadays, they just don't suffer. So, I'm going to give them programs to maintain a fitness level. So, back then, it was crazy. You've also, as a players, I'm like, major league over weight. So, you say 19, did you know it was coming to the end? Well, it's kind of been, when I was 19, I was actually only toward contract, believe it or not. So, I've been given another contract for a year, and I assumed to me because I wanted to see how the last year went. Who was able to be appointed at the start of that year, which I thought was a strange situation, because my evidence was there. I actually thought he'd done a decent job at the time. A lot of people call it. Said he was too nice for the job, but he brought him in as joint manager, which I was ridiculous. He just sucked the man. He got a big job in the force place. Well, when he got the job in his own, he didn't really take much of an interest in the reserves or the use and that sort of stuff. Which in France, the way I was at the time he did. I remember in particular, my contract came up for a meal, and I sat down and stayed for it, and we called it a great look. You're probably buying it out against the wall there, in terms of getting into the force tape. So, it's probably better to have gone elsewhere and get the force tape football. So, that kind of sealed me at the time, but then I played, I'd say it's about three months before the end of the season. We played everything in the mini-diving, and I was in, he was in Gig Lane. There was a major, triple four to six thousand people there. As the force was there, he had came to watch since he'd been taken over, and he had failed times, and there was a system manager. And I remember the guy in my squad, the winner, he beat him in there, had a go game, which he don't explain at the time. And after the match he really pulled me and said, "Look, what's the situation, your contract?" He said, "My contract's open a few weeks, you know, I've already decided I'm going on." And he was like, "No, don't go anywhere. We want to sit in here again, and we'll get you home alone next season, and this sort of stuff for me." At that point it showed a spanner in the works. You know, it was kind of like when it made me wonder if I'm going to push on, and I say that the tone was hard to tone down to stay as well. So, at the time I was going to turn between the both, and to be honest with you, that was around the tone. I think Wigan came in from me, after me a two-year day. I had my efforts to go to China and stuff like that, you know. But I came home, not so much to think about, which would have been 1999. Like I'm home to have a little thing about what I was going to do, and I never went back. You know, I never went back. You think that was down to the fact that the cold weren't. Like, what was he doing to be honest with you? Are you thinking he was being honest with you? I think he was kind of surprised how well a lot of young guys at the time were playing, you know. Because the force team squad weren't setting the world away, and he decided to go down and have a look what was below that pilot. He probably got surprised, you know, the talent that was there with me. I was kind of made me wonder what I said as you go on. I couldn't show a spanner in the works. So, I remember at the time, I was at the going down the age of Drew, and I had an agent who was, you know, washing me clothes and all of the other times. He kind of, I said, "Look, I'll take a couple of weeks off and go home, I'll take a couple of days and get back and talk to you." He said, "Okay, we'll look like we're going back to 7th of July, and we're going back to 6th of July, whatever it was at the time." So, he said, "Well, give me a shot in a couple of weeks, I'll let you know." And then he'd ring me and say, "Look, I don't look before you know what you're doing." I said, "Look, give me a ring next week. I haven't decided yet, you know." And before you know at the time, I passed those back home. I was living on a board. I was enjoying the high life. And that was it, then. The phone call stopped, you know. Can you talk us through that year of, immediately pulsed the room, and the decision-making process and motivation and all that type of thing, that might take you from being part of a huge club to sign up out voluntarily. Yeah. It was crazy, you know. At the time, we probably didn't have a lot of guidance. I'm not saying that that's how even else is involved with me. I only felt the, you know, the more I say the people, but I can handle the fact that our next things will be solved. Certainly a lot of people like to blame what that manager did like. And they are, you know, disvalided on this to me, disvalided on that. Like, my bass has made a ball of me self, and I put my hand up to that. And it's easier to accept fully enough, you know. But at the time, when I came back, it was just like, I remember I heard a period around, coming up to our Christmas, where I had an oracle, and you know, I was allowed to back train and stuff, and I remember going, "What the name is, J.A.'s I'm allowed to do." And you know, so, I had an oracle. I remember at the time, I got a phone call. I had a phone call. I was managing parts of the time with me and Bubli. I asked her to go down, so I said, "Look, I'm not doing anything else." So I wound her down and played a few games to see what happens. I mean, the conditions, fitness-wise, the judge's deteriorate, and no interest, you know, it literally had a large style of interest. Don't ask me, boy. You know, I went from training every day, having this structure in my story. You have to be here, you have to do this, you have to do this. And it's a basic move back to down mode. You know what I mean, back in. And the funny thing is, when you come home, you know, all your mates are in walks, so, you're sitting around all day going, "Not in the name of Jasmine, do you want to hear?" So, I ended up going down to Pat's, didn't ask very long left in the end. And that's when Stephen Kenny actually came in and took me to home for at the time. It was a bit of a closure shock because at the time now, from when it's a very big club, you're not going to have to come into the primary division. And when you're going from the case of, you know, the glitzy lights of a big club like Liverpool and going to Anfield and stuff, then down to Strokes Town Road and, you know, we trained out with the back of the driving range of the south region. You probably had to kick a thousand balls after training round before you could start training and stuff, you know. But in fairness, I bought into it and I think was there for about two or three months. Don't know really how it pre-seasoned, got me set back in the condition. We went down to Limerick where they were four sessions a day. It was mad stuff, got me set back. And in the back of my mind, I'd be in touch with a couple of clubs, and then we would prove your fitness, get yourself back, scoring a few balls. And we'd be back on the plane again. And we'd put a plane of pre-season friend against Northampton Town. And remember the fourth time, but it was doing really well. I was actually happy with myself. The second half went off the head after. Landed awkward. I mean, like, just snapped on the way. That was that. So what was you doing? Broken ankle. Broken ankle, dislocated ankle. So had the operation, squirrels, bolts, was out for a ball. As well for a ball into the air, you know. Came back then and I think going for quite a middle of the season. I've missed out with the pre-season in the following year and stuff like that. So I was playing catch up fitness was, had to go and have a little operation. Ten back was playing in the fourth, the end of the tournament. There's nowhere near fitness to be playing. I played down the car up the year. We got to the cuff line for the fourth time. The FAO cuff line. And I scored the winner down the car. I was playing, okay. And then on the back of my mind, I wasn't doing any self justice. It just wasn't fit. And I come to the time, I think we're in the semi-fallen of the FAO cuff. I just walked away. What age was that? Twenty. Twenty. Twenty. Maybe pushing time to go. At the time. Walked away and then a couple of months later in the back playing Mickey Mouse football, and he made steam. And he went out of Premier League. (Laughter) It's a pretty dramatic moment. He stood there from grace there. He made it. Well, at the time, I was like, you know, get yourself, deal with you, China. It's just, you know, I wasn't interested. So I do feel China says, get yourself fit. Couple of League of Orleans who were still knocking under the door, you know, trying to get me back. I was still young enough to get myself fit and have a decent career in League of Legends. You know, at the time, the money was starting to get really big in the league. So I went and tried to get this logo tame. And two weeks after, started trying to get me set back in the shape of Broke. We were like, I don't know. Since then, I've been bunking legs twice on the collarbone, but the tongue was twenty-four. (Laughter) Someone was telling me something. It's time to pack it in. Yeah, there's a message going back. Yeah, so that's what I did. I think it was twenty-three, maybe twenty-four at the time. I just decided that's it. That's it. I don't know anymore, yeah? I know you were saying that no one really was there to avoid it. Back when you went over. Would you have any advice for our kids to stop? Maybe I have any opportunities to go over now. Like, I know it's not there for the more kids. Yeah, yeah. Do you think that it's an idea to stay for a few years, and to prove yourself here for a start? And the idea was, you know, it's been proven that kids that go away later, probably on the better chance. The more mature, you get your education. As I say, you can come home from England. You don't have to be a junior, so you're going to be about nothing else. You know what I mean? Not a penny in the pocket. So, kids go over now. It's a different kind of efficient. The idea of the situation that dogs stay and, you know, train together and stuff like that. But where do you get the games that are going to improve them as players and stuff? You know what I mean? I always had the kids going away. Remember, I remember in particular one case, a good friend, the one, John Paul Kelly, who was going to Liverpool, and at the time, they were just asking just how to chat and tell them, you know, this is all just stuff. So, I remember at Paul Jackson, and I spoke to him about a sentence, and I said, "Look, just four, six months is probably the hardest. If you can last six months already, probably last six years, because it gets easier after that. The four, six months is very tough. And I think he was home and for it. You know what I mean? So, it's a big culture shock, and some kids come around there, you know? We're a lot of stuff now. Our kids come away. It's kind of crazy. They're moving the families over to keep the kids happy and stuff, which is not a bad thing, you know. You wouldn't have brought them away after six of us. But a lot of the parents are going over with the kids now, which is not a bad thing. You're very humble. I mean, it's the easy thing to say. People just stay late. I hope it's very hard to turn it down when not to get out as well, you know? Well, it's just the last question for you. Well, not the last question, but you're back in the world again and again. Back in the world again. Back in the world again. Back in the world, you're managing now. And have no new voice. Try it again. [LAUGHTER] Back in the world again. What's your point? Yeah. To be honest with you, when I was in the game around the 23/24, I heard a phone call from Leo, which is when he helped him work in Syracuse. And it was me, all the manager, Brad, he rang me and said, well, you come down on the deal with the coach and the kids. So I went down and took over the team. We didn't run the 12 at the time. And then we took over the 12-premise team. And I had them for three years. And it was more or less when I went back over with the kids. That's when I actually fell back and over the game. You know, it was crazy. I was just like, this is where I went. You know, I was coaching and enjoying it. I had the kids for three years. And they went a lot of a couple of them went down to England. And that sort of stuff. And, you know, it was great. We had to pass on that point of advice, which was fairly fresh at the time, you know. We were at, then of course, the only end of things came into it. And I got up for the couple of senior managers' job, which I took before senior managers' job. And it was with 24-year. And I did whatever since, really. But, you know, I put on and off work with the kids as well. You know, more or less from the senior teams, maybe the last 10 years. So, good. So it was kind of a case. I still enjoy it. It's like, look, it's different now. You have to work. You have a job. You know what I mean? You have training. And you have kids and lawyers and stuff like that. You know, back then it was you. All you had to worry about was football. And you still made an estimate, you know. (laughter) So, I think we'd be torturing you on the floor. Thanks a minute. And we'll get you involved in that quickly. So, I heard from my sister's friend's cousin that Coles has the lowest prices of the season and had to save her myself. For real, the deals are so good. I got my kids' summer tees for $5.99. I keep swimsuit for myself for $17.99. And a shark vacuum for $1.99.99, which will be great after Sandy Beach days. I got Coles Cash, too. And I got it all in less than an hour with free store pickup. So, yeah. Summer, I'm ready for you. Select Styles, M's May 23. Some exclusion supplies. See store or Coles.com for details. Turn off your laptop. We're on Stakeation. I'm on TotalWine.com. They have so many rosés, Chardonnays and Proseccos. It feels like a real vacation. Wonderous selection, helpful guides, ridiculously low prices, TotalWine and more. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. [Applause]
As we aren’t recording til wednesday night this week here are 2 interviews from some of our very early podcasts which you may have missed. The first is with Ed Thompson on FFP and the overall implications of the new rules for clubs both in terms of transfers and how they will be run. The second interview is from our first ever pod when we talked with Niall Byrne a former highly rated Irish LFC prospect on his time at the club, his experiences and how he felt when it didnt happen at LFC for him. Sound quality reflects our earlier recording equipment but the content is excellent, enjoy.
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