Police Off The Cuff/Real Crime Stories

Accused Gilgo Beach serial killer's attorney points to other suspects.

Duration:: 50m
Broadcast on:: 31 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Accused Gilgo Beach Serial Killer's lawyer points to other suspects. Suspected Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann may seek separate trials for the six murders he is currently charged with, according to his defense attorney. Heuermann, 60, took longer to get to court than anticipated, spurring Judge Timothy Mazzei to quip to court officers, “Did you walk him over from the jail?” Asa Ellerup, Heuermann’s estranged wife, also appeared in court with their family dog, who was recently registered as a service dog. She did not speak to reporters. Heuermann appeared to shake his head as prosecutors announced the turning over of new evidence to the defense, including up to 30 more terabytes of data seized from the searches of his house. The data includes 1,600 pages of lab reports. The prosecution team also announced that up to 60,000 pages of evidence had been turned over to the defense since his June 6 court appearance, when he was charged with the murders of Sandra Costilla and Jessica Taylor. “There’s definitely going to be a motion at some point in time to sever the [trials for the] six individuals,” Michael Brown, Heuermann’s defense attorney, told reporters. “The most recent two were victims of the indictment, specifically Costilla and Taylor, I know strategically why the prosecutor wanted to put them in, because the more the merrier, but they have nothing to do with the others. The MO is different, the way that the murders allegedly were carried out were different, where those bodies were deposited or left is completely different. So as we know here about these Gilgo Beach murders, those two have nothing to do with this.” (LI Press) 💯 Join our mission to uncover the truth in crime! Support Police Off the Cuff on Patreon for exclusive content and insider access. Click now and become a part of our detective squad: https://www.patreon.com/policeoffthecuff 💬 Did you like this video? Let me know in the comments below! ✅ Subscribe to Police off the Cuff right now! Click here: https://www.youtube.com/@PoliceofftheCuff?sub_confirmation=1 Or become a YouTube Member to get access to perks here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKo80Xa1PYTc23XN_Yjp8pA/join --------------- Welcome to the Official YouTube Channel of Police off the Cuff This is where the veil of mystery on high-profile cases is lifted through the sharp insights of seasoned law enforcement professionals and where real crime meets real analysis. This is your destination for exploring the complexities of true crime stories, illuminated by the rich experience and street wisdom of those who have walked the thin blue line. At the helm is retired NYPD Sergeant Bill Cannon, a figure of authority in the crime investigation arena, with a diverse background that spans across acting, broadcasting, and academia. Bill's profound knowledge and keen analytical skills, combined with his empathetic approach, make each story not just heard but felt. Phil's extensive investigative experience, coupled with his genuine passion and characteristic Brooklyn charm, adds depth and relatability to the discussions. ➡️ Here we navigate the intricate web of the nation's most captivating crime stories, offering not just stories, but an education on the realities of criminal investigation. Their combined expertise provides a unique lens through which the stories are told, offering insights that only those with firsthand experience can provide. Join us on this journey into the heart of true crime, where every episode promises a deep dive into the minds of criminals and the tireless efforts of law enforcement to bring them to justice. --------------- 📲 Follow Police off the Cuff on social media: Instagram ▶️ https://www.instagram.com/policeoffthecuff Facebook ▶️ https://www.facebook.com/Policeoffthecuff-312794509230136/ Twitter ▶️ https://twitter.com/policeoffthecuf 🎧 Dive deep into true crime with Police Off the Cuff Podcast. Join retired NYPD expert Bill Cannon as he dissects infamous cases with insider insight: https://anchor.fm/otcpod1 ☑️ Support Police Off the Cuff and help us bring you more captivating crime stories. Every contribution makes a difference! Choose your preferred way to donate: Venmo: https://venmo.com/William-Cannon-27 PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/policeoffthecuff1gma --------------- 📚 Disclaimer: This video may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. --------------- #PoliceOffTheCuff

(upbeat music) Hello everyone and welcome to "Police Off the Cuff Real Crime Stories." I'm your host, retired NYPD Sergeant Bill Cannon, a 27 year veteran of the NYPD. Folks, it seems like every other month or every, at least every month, we get some new information on a woman on serial killer case, of course, rec human. And he appeared in court today, out in, in Riverhead. And that's his attorney on the screen, Michael Brown, accused Gilgo Beach serial killer's lawyer points to other suspects. And I know that at this point, I must always say that rec human is innocent until proven guilty, like every defendant in our country. And we go back, and we realize where this started, when we heard of the Gilgo form, Maureen Branded Bonds, Melissa Patelme, Megan Waterman, and Amber Castello. And very, very recently, they added two more cases to it. And you see on the screen here, Jessica Teller, and Sandra Castilla. And Jessica, excuse me, Sandra Castilla, her case goes back to 1993, which really is so interesting, because rec human is now 60 years old. That would have made him 29 years old if he, in fact, did kill Sandra Castilla. And her body was dumped out in Southampton. And Jessica Teller's body was found, I believe, in Manneville, and that was in 2003. So these cases, when they connect them together, and the commonality with a lot of the physical evidence, of course, is the mitochondrial DNA, a technology that has evolved to where today they are able to do unbelievable things with evidence. And in the case of Sandra Castilla, a hair mitochondrial DNA underneath her body and some canvas that was underneath her body was identified as rec humans. Or the mathematical equation they use is like one quintillion billion to one that it's him. And I'm being sarcastic. I don't know the mathematical numbers. I don't think, as Ray Tierney said, none of us even know those numbers. So those are some of the evidence that has been presented towards rec humans. So you may say, or you may think, that his attorney, Michael Brown, he has a high hill to climb, you know? And according to the Long Island Press, suspected Gigglebeat serial killer rec human may seek separate trials for the six murders he is currently charged with according to his defense attorney, who you see on the screen, and that is Michael Brown. You women who's 60 years old of Mass Pickle Park took longer to get the court than anticipated today, sparing Judge Timothy Mizzet to quip to court officers, did you walk him over from the jail? Asa Ella up humans estranged wife also appeared in court with their family dog, who was recently registered as a service dog. She did not speak to reporters. You women appeared to shake his head as prosecutors announced the turning over of new evidence to the defense, including up to 30 more terabytes of data seized from the searches of his house. The data includes 1,600 pages of lab reports. The prosecution team also announced that up to 60,000 pages of evidence have been turned over to the defense since his June 6th court appearance when he was charged with the murders of Sandra Castilla and Jessica Taylor. In addition to Taylor and Castilla, you women is charged with the murders of Megan Waterman, Marine Brainard Barnes, Melissa Batelome, and Amberlyn Castello, he is pleaded not guilty to all of those charges. So we know that obviously just hearing those the terabytes of the evidence and 1,600 pages of lab reports, I mean, the evidence is unbelievable. However, if you were his defense attorney, Michael Brown, he has a steep, steep hill to climb, but nonetheless, what else is he going to attack except the evidence? He has to attack the evidence. There's nothing else he can possibly attack, but the evidence, so that's what he's going to go after. So folks, hold on to your hats, hold on to your service dog, hold on to your next door neighbor, hold on to your beer, your glass of wine, you're about to enter true crime from a police perspective. You're about to enter the off the cuff zone, the police off the cuff zone. (suspenseful music) - To ask me some common sense, sir, they have a car stopped in 10 and scratched by fire. - We still don't know before the trailer. (suspenseful music) - So with the amount of evidence in this case, the attorney, Michael Brown, indicated he may potentially want to try each of these murders on its own, not as all different cases, but each murder separately. My God, that would take years and years and years, I think, but he may want to do that. And of course, he is pointing towards the potential of other suspects. Could there be other suspects? - Well, his job as an attorney is to create doubt, is it not? So let's hear what you have to say today outside of court. Guilty, so certainly there are other people I believe are suspects. - The attorney for Rex Shoreman, the suspected Gilgo Beach serial killer had a lot to say after court, nearly two months, after his client was charged with murdering two more women for a total of six. I'll take you to Long Island and tell you what happened inside the courtroom and what lawyers on both sides are saying. - It's safe to say he would be suspected. - Plus, the lawyer for Rex Shoreman's children is here, pushing back against claims by another lawyer that Shoreman's daughter was involved in the murders. - It would be a substantial judgment, I'm sure, for defamation because his words are defamatory. - Welcome to Crime Fix, I'm Angenette Levy. Rex Shoreman was back in a Suffolk County courtroom today and the hearing had to do with the evidence that the state has turned over to Shoreman's attorneys. This is Shoreman's first court appearance since June when a grand jury indicted him for the 1993 murder of Sandra Castilla. - So that one, when they talk about 1993, as I said earlier, in 1993, Rex Shoreman would have been 29 years old and that was out further on Eastern Long Island. The body was discovered in Southampton and modus operandi changed over the years because in the murder of Sandra Castilla, it was overkill. She was stabbed over 30 times and her body was cut apart. And that potentially was his MO back then. But he evolved as many serial killers often do. He evolved in the way he killed, he evolved in the location that he killed, the location of course, that we all know now that he dumped the bodies. So according to serial killer expert, Dr. Gary Boccato, he said that the age that the average serial killer starts killing is 26. - So if Rex human started in 1993, if in fact, he committed the murder of Sandra Castilla, who you see on the screen right now, if he in fact murdered this woman, he would have been 29 years old. So not so far away from the age of 26, the average age of most serial killers. - And Jessica Taylor's murder in 2003, Huermann was already facing charges for the murders of the Gilgo for Marine Brainard Barnes, Amber Castello, Melissa Bartholomew and Megan Waterman. The bodies of those women had been found wrapped in burlap along Ocean Parkway in 2010 and 2011. Huermann has pleaded not guilty to all of the charges. Outside of court, Huermann's wife, Asa Ellorup showed up with her lawyer and a service dog. Ellorup walked outside with that dog for a bit before entering the courthouse with the dog, which captured the attention of photographers covering the hearing. Ellorup actually filed for divorce last summer after Huermann was charged. Her lawyer said that she filed for divorce to protect herself. And he said that she's waiting to see the evidence. Ellorup and her two children, Victoria Huermann and Christopher Sheridan are filming a documentary with a reported seven figure payday. We'll hear from their lawyer in just a bit. But first, Huermann's lawyer, Michael Brown, talked about a number of things after court, including the two new murder charges his client faces. Take a listen. - The Castello murder is, I've read the grand jury minutes and the only evidence that I've seen is allegedly one hair. One hair that ties my client allegedly to that murder. But listen, the basis of all of these cases, the bulk of their evidence, the strongest piece of evidence that they claim they have is a hair, a hair on each body. - Now Brown talked about how he might actually challenge the DNA analysis of those hairs based on testimony of analysts from the Suffolk County Crime Lab at the grand jury. - And they said that those hairs were unsuitable for nuclear DNA testing. Those were their words in the grand jury. I'm not making this up. I promise you, that's what they said in the grand jury. So we came out of that court a year ago and we started looking at the evidence and we reiterated that it is unsuitable for nuclear DNA. And the mitochondrial DNA, and then we started talking about the ratios and the population. There are thousands and thousands of people just on Long Island that potentially could be donors for those hairs. You know, except what he's leaving out is the second hair found on the body of Sandra Castilla. The second hair was from Rex human's ex-wife. So right there it sort of that strengthens that evidence to make it, you know, he wants to create doubt, bring up all those thousands of people it could be that he claims it could be. The other thing is, because this case goes back so long, the science of DNA, and yes, nuclear DNA, when they said that it was unsuitable for nuclear DNA, but guess what? It wasn't unsuitable for mitochondrial DNA. And there's a lab in, excuse me, it's in Texas called Othrem that does the unbelievable work on investigative genetic genealogy, and they do unbelievable work with mitochondrial DNA. And I believe they are, and that is the lab that did the work on this case, as well as the Idaho case, the Idaho 4, with the defendant Brian Coburger. So yes, what else is Michael Brown going to attack except, of course, the evidence? However, there are truckloads, there are tractor trailers full of evidence in this case, so he's got a long road to climb. And I stood in front of all of you, maybe it was August of last year, maybe it was September, and I said this. And within months of me saying this, now all of a sudden, magically, we have a company in California that says no, we're able to do nuclear DNA testing. And here are the results. And Rex Eurman is one out of a zillion trillion quad million, I don't know what number is they use, and he's the guy that that DNA belongs to. Now, to be clear, the DA's office claims that one hair found on Sandra Castilla actually came from an ex-girlfriend of Rex Eurman's who had moved out of his home prior to the murder. Brown didn't mention that in his press conference. It was actually his ex-wife, I believe. Maybe they want to keep that on the DL. Brown also said that they are considering asking for a change of venue, but he's not committing to that just yet. Last month, the DA revealed that they recovered documents from one of Eurman's 350 electronic devices seized from his home in the spring. One document has categories labeled problems, supplies, DS and TRG. Investigators believe DS means dump sites and TRG means target. Under problems, a number of items are listed, including DNA, tire marks, blood stains, fingerprints, witnesses, trace sources of supplies, shoe prints, police stops, and the list goes on. The supply list also sounds like things that could be used to torture a person or possibly clean up a crime scene or keep clean. The DA also believes Heurman studied the book "Mind Hunter" by FBI profiler John Douglas, who studied serial killers. Here's Brown's response to that. The two pages that basically mimic the "Mind Hunter" book, I've seen it, yes. - What is this? What is this thing? - It's "Mind Hunt." It's a book that allegedly downloaded on his computer. I mean, there's probably hundreds of thousands of people across our country who have, if not millions, who have read that book, interested in that book and download portions of that book onto their computer. I don't know the district attorney made a big deal about it. I don't think it's that significant. - Brown is also pointing to possible other suspects, including somebody named WH. That is significant because WH are the initials on a belt used to bind marine brainer barns. - You know, it's funny, you can always create doubt with anything involved in the case. And that was a piece of evidence. And they think that according to the district attorney, they believe this belt belongs to his father. So it is still in his home because, as we all know, rec human bought the home that he lives in from his mother or inherited it or bought it from his mother, but that was the home that he grew up in in Massapequa Park. So all of these things, of course, they're being, you know, Michael Brown is, of course, using them to create doubt. But, you know, the case isn't being charged. It's not being tried in the public. It's not being tried in the public domain. This case is going to be tried in a court of law. And I would think that this case for an attorney, a for a defense attorney, even though it's got to be a dream case to be able to try to represent someone like this, 'cause this case is going to take years, but it also is a very, very, very difficult case in so many ways because there's so much evidence. There's so much science. There's so much psychology. There's so much, when you talk about emotion on Long Island and emotion and bad feelings toward the Suffolk County police from the years that this case went nowhere, it's an unbelievable case. And Michael Brown, of course, has his work cut out to him. - We talked about WH, right? I know we've talked about that in the past, and I had good knowledge that the former DA in this county was prepared to move forward with an arrest of this suspect, WH. Now, WH is so significant because that's the belt, but yet it's my client's grandmother's, uncle's, the neighbor, and therefore it's tied to my client, but you had a WH who they were attributing that belt to. You folks haven't seen Discovery, unfortunately. The sole reason in WH, there were probably 30 strong points of evidence at WH. The sole reason that they decided not to charge WH is because there's an overlap in phone calls. WH is personal phone and this burner phone. So because people can't have two phones on at the same time, WH has been eliminated as a suspect. That doesn't make any sense to me, but what happens is you take your narrative and every piece of evidence, and that's what you go with, and that's the case that we have here. - For his part, Suffolk County DA Ray Tierney is standing by the allegation in court documents that Rex Heurman committed the murders. He's also keeping to his word to move forward with the investigation into all of the bodies found on Gilgo Beach and in Manneville. - We've said right from the very beginning that we were going to expand the investigation of the original Gilgo 4 off of the beach. I think the last indictment has illustrated that. So that work continues, but as well as the arduous work of preparing this case for the trial. - Tierney says the task force has received 7,000 tips. One point that Tierney and Michael Brown can actually agree on, there's a massive amount of evidence to go through in this case. - We have, you know, we have six murders, which our legislature have been committed by this defendant, and we need to move that forward to doing that, but so all of the underlying case work for all each of those murders. One murder occurred in 1993, 2003, 2007, 2009, and 2002, 2010. So all those individual case works, and they have missing persons files which we have to provide. And then you have tips which you have to provide. You have phone work, you have lab work, you have electronic devices who have to provide all of the work from that, not only the underline data, but you're talking about scientific forensic evidence, electronic evidence, so you have to provide all of that. - You know, folks, you just think of it that this case, in no way can they make a mistake with the discovery. Imagine they are judged through a case out because the prosecution didn't do the right thing with the discovery, 'cause we've seen that before, haven't we? We saw that in the Alec Baldwin case in New Mexico, the whole case was thrown out. So think of the voluminous, it's just a tract of trailers full of evidence in this case, and think of how exacting that Ray Tuny and his team of prosecutors have to be in presenting the discovery evidence to Michael Brown, because a case, believe it or not, can hidden Japan that, and there's so, so much evidence in this case that it's mind-boggling. And when Michael Brown talks about, you know, attacking the evidence and creating doubt and all this thing which he's doing in the public, you know, because this case, again, will not be tried in the public or in the press, it'll be tried in a courtroom. But when we think of everyone, anyone that's ever followed this case, the totality of the evidence, the burn of phones, the escalate was, excuse me, the avalanche, the Chevy Avalanche, that was one of the keys to this case. Remember the eyeball witness with the disappearance of Amber Costello, the pimp/boyfriend that's identified as rec human as looking like this six foot, five, six foot, six inch, 300 pound ogre. That was the word he used, ogre. And he had a Chevy Avalanche. And for years, that piece of evidence and that complaint follow-up was in the case folder. And two months after the task force was formed, they found that car and identified that vehicle as belonging to rec human. Unbelievable, right? So for years before, that 12 years, 13 years, no, nothing, nothing. And all of a sudden, they put this task force together, they do a deep dive into the case folder and they find this Chevy Avalanche. And they find this six foot, six inch ogre by the name of rec human. And then all the police work starts. I mean, there was police work done before that, but now it really, they ramp it up. They search his computer remotely. He had no idea they were searching his computer. That's an amazing thing, right? So computer geeks, computer experts, search his computer and they find some extremely disturbing things on his computer. Most of them were memorialized in that 37 page, it was initially a 32 page bail application document. It's now grown to 37 pages. And some of the things they found in there were so, so disturbing. And I'll go into a little bit of it later, but that document where basically his preparation document. And that was encrypted. They were able to open that and it was a word document. It's just unbelievable. And again, there's some distractions in this case too. And I'll put this back up on the screen. And these are some of the distractions. - Herman's family, particularly his children, Christopher Sheridan and Victoria Heurman, think about their father being charged with murdering six women. - Vess Matev represents the children of Rex Heurman. Vess, thanks so much for coming on. I want to ask you first of all, how are Victoria Heurman and her brother doing? - Thank you. The invite certainly, nothing's really changed. As we've said all along, they're constantly living in a state of evolving or devolving chaos, depending on which day of the week it is. So they're more or less the same. I mean, just because they've gotten used to traversing this uncharted waters for the last year and a half doesn't mean it's gotten any easier at all. And it's just getting used to something. And I think their behavior and their conduct so far as a testament to the resilience of their character because as I've said all along, I think certainly most of us would have crumbled long ago under the searing light of the microscope of the media and of all the flotsam and jetsum that they've had to endure as being unwilling participants in this, you know, macabre horror show. - It definitely is a macabre horror show. And the last court appearance kind of showed us that when there were some new information revealed in the court documents regarding the allegations being made against Rex Heurman. He is now charged with murdering a total of six women going back to the 1990s. And there were some documents found on his computer according to the Suffolk County DA that showed a lot of really terrible, sadistic things. How were the kids dealing with that? I mean, I know they're adults now, but they were still the children of Rex Heurman. - You know, an interesting little aside here is that this attorney, Vest Matev was at one time the partner of attorney John Ray, the associate. He was in the same office. And now they are rivals because John Ray is the attorney who pointed the finger saying that Victoria Ewan is involved in these murders. And that is who Vest Matev, the attorney for Victoria Ewan, that is who he's representing, going against his former partner. And we all remember this little press conference which sort of confused the case a great deal. - They're in our society. They're cannibals, they're monsters, they're human devils, they're evil. The Hoaremans are part of that pact. - A strange and often disturbing news conference was held last week suggesting the family of accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heurman of also showing interest in these savage crimes. - We're breaking down these latest allegations and whether there's really anything there. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. - So this sort of does muddy up the whole case a little bit. And John Ray has a history. He also represented the family of Shannon Gilbert. - Not only into Rex Heurman, but also his family. Heurman's wife, Asa Elorap, and they're now adult daughter, Victoria. Heurman also has an adult son, Christopher, who is not named during this press conference, but let's take a listen. - I'm in pursuit of Shannon Gilbert's killers and the full truth and the fact of the facts and circumstances surrounding all of these murders as I've been from the beginning. I represent that family, the Gilbert family, and I represent several victims, families of Rex Heurman who survived him and were attacked by him or stalked by him. So I'm not here today, by the way, to just speak about the exclusively about Shannon, but I'm here to speak about what we have discovered regarding one of the children and the implications of that for the family. - Yeah, so last week, Ray held a news conference to discuss a bevy of circumstantial evidence that his team uncovered. Now, to be clear, circumstantial evidence is in direct proof that something happened. But as we well know, if you have enough circumstantial evidence, it can certainly lead to an arrest. It can lead to a conviction, but to be clear. So this whole press conference, which is so bizarre, that I don't even think Ray Taney commented on it. That's the Suffolk County District Attorney. And I don't think he's taking calls from attorney John Ray. And every time that I speak about John Ray and I had John Ray on our show and I respect the man, I like the man. However, I don't agree with a lot of things that he does. And he has a huge, huge fan club, believe it or not, there's many people that believe that John Ray kept this case alive and there's truth to that when no one else was talking about it. And there's a great deal of truth to that. Let me just go back to a little more of this press conference 'cause it was quite bizarre. Well, first of all, folks, this is police off the cuff real crime stories if you like real crime, true crime, from a police perspective, in your in the right place. And if you're not subscribed, go on our YouTube, hit that subscribe button, give us a thumbs up, ring that bell and hit the like button, share us with your friends and your family. Also, if you want to contribute to us, we have a Patreon with four different levels. We also have a YouTube channel membership with count 'em, five different levels and we appreciate all of our friends and our YouTube family that keep this show going and we appreciate them very much. Let me go back to John Ray and some of the things he said at this press conference. - Sorry, by the Huberman family. Take a look at the first page and the picture that's to the right. That's Victoria Huberman as she tried to appear to the press when you first confronted her at the home in Massa Piqua Park. There she is in her little girl's uniform. She's 27 years old with a school bag draped over her. Her hair in a nice little bun, very innocent looking person. The other picture is also Victoria Huberman, as she really is, as she portrays herself on the internet, as she actually looks. We've been sold a bill of goods. If you look at her artwork in the top page, her artwork consists that she posted online of a human skull. That's just the beginning. After the indictments, oddly enough, and you folks took the picture, you see Victoria Huberman walking out, I believe her from her house. And I thought it was odd when I saw it. But you'll notice she's wearing a shirt that depicts right after her father is indicted, for these murdered women, it depicts a human skeleton. That's what she's wearing. This appears to be the remains of a human being that looks half eaten. Remember that... - Folks, this stuff is just so bizarre, but I just wanted to show you a bit of it, because it's really when you talk about circumstantial evidence. Yeah, it's unprovable. And I mean, Ray Tierney, the Suffolk County District Attorney, said that very early on in this investigation, perhaps earlier than I thought that he would put something like that out there, that no one in the family was implicated in these cases. And every time Rex human met with one of the escorts that disappeared, they investigated it and showed that the family was out of town. And I thought it was a little bit quick that they came to that conclusion, but I certainly didn't think that any of the children were involved. At first, I was a little concerned about Asa Ella-Rupp. He also had some allegations against Asa Ella-Rupp very early on in this case. He also had standing next to him, which gave him a lot more credibility was Dr. Gary Ricardo. I'll just play a little bit of him, 'cause he's a renowned serial killer expert. And let me just play a little bit of what he has to say, and then we'll move on from this. The comments I'm going to make are general about the trends and these kinds of offenders and what we might be able to gauge about someone who may be potentially joining the ranks of that type of individual here. Now, one of the reporters at the news conference wanted to know, does Dr. Ricardo think Rex Uriman raised his daughter to be a serial killer? I can't speak to this particular case because I have not examined anyone involved. And so far what we have here is circumstantial things that are certainly worth contemplating. I'll say this, among the individuals that do participate with serial killer family members or friends or associates, they seem to divide up into different groups. Some of them have their own perversions and are collaborating because they in a group are able to enjoy these things together. And some of them are individuals who have been traumatized or exposed repetitively to these kinds of things and are joining in with the offender. Sometimes there's a kind of Stockholm syndrome or attempt to survive. Sometimes because it's been so desensitized for them that it's become normal in the home or environment in which they're operating. And sometimes there's no relation that they just are interested in these kinds of unusual things on their own. But you have to take that on a case-by-case basis. And I think it's certainly worth thinking about because I think we'd agree that what we're seeing here is certainly disturbing. - So that was Dr. Gary Ricardo. And I felt that that gave more credibility than I think that this press conference deserved to get the fact that he had Dr. Gary Ricardo standing next in. You know, when we look at the now 37 page bail application document with all of the evidence coming in, initially the document was 32 pages and the disturbing thing, and I think that long crime just showed it, Anganette Levy showed it, but I'll put it up on the screen for a second. And this is the document that everyone refers to. And he, this was found that this is a big, huge piece of evidence 'cause when we talk about this case, yes, it's not just the DNA evidence. It's not just the burn-a-phone evidence. It's not just the vehicle evidence. It's not the calls, the traced phone calls from his own phone and the GPS all, just, you know, as we talk about, track the trail is full of evidence. But this document specifically is really disturbing. And when it's almost a how to do it or how he does it. And we look at the problems, DNA, tire marks, blood stains, fingerprints, MO, plastic bag, cat litter, witness, trace source of supplies. For example, when you think of that, he writes trace source of supplies. What does he mean by that? Well, that potentially an item of evidence that they find, the police could trace that evidence to where it was obtained from and then potentially match that up to the right human, to the killer. So he was thinking about all of these things while he was committing these crimes because guess what? He did not want to get caught. So this is what he was doing. And again, I'll put it back on the screen. And this is from that now infamous 37 page bail application document. Foot shoe prints, photos, misleaders, police stop. What if you're doing a killing and you get stopped by the police? He thought of all of those things, truck stuck, fingerprints in gloves, the gloves he wore. He had to consider where he would throw them out because they can obtain fingerprints from inside gloves. Plastic bags, match to box, hair and fiber. Supplies, look at how well he thought of all this. Booties, lie, acid, police skin, a rope cord, saw cutting tools, hair nets, photo film, burn can, foam drain clean, a body, look, this is disturbing, right? And through this and through this document and through the second search they did of his house, of his home, I believe they found out the disturbing details is that he was not only killing these women inside this house, but he was torturing them inside the basement of his home, which is extremely, extremely disturbing. And we remember it was just in June that they went back a second time to process more evidence from this house. And that, as I said, we talk about all the evidence. This is also from that 37 page bail application document. And I'll put this up on the screen also. Victim designation in bail letter, proximal location of hair recovery, mitochondrial DNA results, nuclear S&P DNA results. Sandra Castilla, male hair on Castilla. Tape lift of striped shirt above victim's head. 99.96% of North American population can be excluded, but not actual men. So, and then they give the 4.347 times 10 to the 332nd times power. So that's a number that we don't even know about. Sandra Castilla, female hair on Castilla, victims right arm. 99%, 98% of North American population can be excluded, but not witness number three. Witness number three is believed to be, was confirmed early on, it was Rex human's ex-wife. So, if Michael Brown doesn't want to believe that Rex human is the killer, how did his ex-wife's hair also get on? So, how are you going to create doubt with that? Jessica Taylor, male hair underneath, tail on surgical drape underneath victim became, it was back to Rex human. Maureen brained bonds, female hair on bonds. Buckle of belt was straining lower body. The hair belonged to Asa Ella. Megan Waterman, first two female hairs on Waterman. Asa Ella or Victoria human. Megan Waterman, another hair belonged to Asa Ella. They also found on the burlap, burlap on Megan Waterman, a hair belonging to Rex human. Amber Castello, hairs belonging to Asa Ella and Victoria human were found. So, I mean, for most people sitting on a jury, I mean, would that not be very powerful to you? Like if Michael Brown was trying to create doubt with that and doubt with how it was collected, doubt in how it was processed, the actual lab technicians that processed that, would you buy any of that? I mean, I would think that how did his hair and how did his wife's hair, how did his daughter's hair get on these bodies? Just totally outrageous, right? From the chat, Alan G. God only knows how many days this monster held them before the yes and that's a proper word, I think, to use. Ariel Balordini, Shannon M. Gilbert cover up. Mm, I'm not following you. I mean, her little sister never told anyone, including her family, what was said on the calls. Shannon M. Gilbert cover of Ariel Balordini, the calls that Melissa's little sister got were very specific. There is a huge secret around how calls that Tierney doesn't know the secret. Why? 'Cause the family doesn't know. Okay, you know, these are all sort of things that have nothing to do with the evidence. And I think that's what Ray Tierney is really looking at. And what we're all looking at is the evidence in this case. The evidence in this case is so important and there's so much of it, you know? So much evidence that ties Rex human to these victims. And you know, there's still more investigation to be done, right? When we look at all these victims and on the very top, the first picture is Shannon Gilbert, you know? And that's a case that has caused a lot of consternation with everyone because the Suffolk County medical examiner never ruled that to be a homicide. It has been ruled to be undetermined or accidental death. And Attorney John Ray hired his own pathologist, Dr. Michael Barton, who at one time was the chief medical examiner for the New York City Office of the chief medical examiner. And he agreed with the Suffolk County medical examiner's findings. However, he said, because the highly bone was cracked, which is the small little bone down in your throat, I'm ruling, "Harmicidal is fixed here." And he agreed with everything, everything that the Suffolk County district attorney said. However, because the high-oid bone was damaged, he felt that he should rule that it was a homicide. So, you know, this case, again, has so many different twists and turns. You know, we could listen to, again, the attorney, Vesmettev, who worked with John, Attorney John Ray. And I'll listen a little more, Vesmettev, and then we'll move on. This is Vesmettev talking about the children. So, how are they grappling with this? - Well, I think that for whatever it's worth, the DA has at every turn gone out of its way to state unequivocally and repeatedly that children had nothing to do with any of the alleged acts, which are only allegations, and then we've stressed that before. Now, Mr. Huerman has extraordinarily capable defense counsel whose job it will be to, you know, make sure that those allegations, you know, do not amount to a conviction. That's his job and the court of public opinion, though, my clients, obviously, have been the targets of some vicious, and then we contend the famitory attacks by side shows and people willing to, wanting to get, you know, into the spotlight by making allegations that have nothing to do with the truth, such as that they weren't anyway involved in any of these acts, despite what the DA has said time and time again. And it's been widely reported, and I won't go into that, but their road has made much more difficult because of that, because of these, you know, vile attempts at, you know, basically character assassinations, you know, which have no place in any sort of proceeding, but much, much less this one, especially when the only investigating authority has repeatedly said that they are not suspects, they were never suspects, they were always outside of the jurisdiction, or in some cases, not even born yet, or in other cases, mere children. So the fact that they've been brought in by, you know, basically carnival barkers and people wanting to capitalize on the media scrutiny of this case is unfortunate, but again, I go back to what I say, it's just another stepping stone for them as they've gotten, you know, they couldn't possibly have tougher skin because it's this precise type of ill-gotten attention and infamy that they have not sought, but has been heaped upon them by all of the hangers on in this case that's made it worse for them, of course, because it's just didn't, you know, it's, how can they separate the court of public opinion, which has already tried, convicted and all but hanged, Mr. Hiraman, with the fact that there's never been a single actual conviction in this case, stretching back to 1993. - So, you know, again, you know, the attorneys always point out what a circus it is, but sometimes the attorneys help to create the circus, you know, and I always want to, whenever we do this case, one of the things I always like to point out that this case is about these four ladies up on the screen here, Marine Brainard Bonds, Melissa Bartellumay, Megan Waterman, Amber Castello, and their families, and of course, they were known as the Gilgo Four, and recently added to this group, which now will number six indictments for murder, is Jessica Taylor and Sandra Castilla. And now there are six murder indictments against rec human. And when you think of this case, please think of these victims, please think of their families, please think of the lives that they led. Most of them led pretty hard lives, you know, they were in the escort business, and that was rec human's modus operandi, you know, he targeted escorts for very specific reasons. And the whole dissertation of this whole show today that the accused Gilgo Beach serial killer's lawyer points to other suspects, rec human's defense attorney, Michael Brown, perhaps again, his job is to create doubt. He wants to create doubt by pointing to other potential perpetrators in this. You know, one of the things I always hope with this case is I'll say it again, rec human's and rec human is innocent until proven guilty. However, I hope, based on all the evidence that I've seen, that he gets convicted, and after conviction, he comes clean and tells the detectives all of the other victims, 'cause I think there are other victims, potentially in other places in this world. He points to all the other victims, and he lets the detectives know where, when, and all the facts of everything he's done in his criminal career. So folks, thank you so much for tuning in tonight. I'm Bill Cannon from Police Off to Cover Real Crime Stories. Have a great night, everyone, and God bless. ♪ One episode, just sayin' it enough ♪ ♪ Get it left up, get it in the tube ♪