Police Off The Cuff/Real Crime Stories

Secret Service Snipers notified 90 minute before shots were fired

Duration:: 1h 6m
Broadcast on:: 30 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Secret Service Snipers notified 90 minutes before shots were fired. #SecretService #FBI #Assassination Security at former President Trump’s Butler, Pa., rally first noticed the man who later shot at Trump more than 90 minutes before shots were fired, according to texts reported by The New York Times, adding to criticism of the Secret Service’s handling of the event. A local countersniper first noticed gunman Thomas Matthew Crooks at 4:26 p.m., just more than an hour and a half before he climbed onto a nearby roof and shot at Trump, nicking his ear, killing a supporter in the crowd and injuring two others. The officer, who was clocking out of his shift, notified colleagues about a suspicious man sitting at a picnic table near their lookout point via text. Additional texts at about 5:40 p.m. show officers discussing that they should inform Secret Service after Crooks was spotted again, this time using a range finder. “Call it in to command and have a uniform check it out,” the text reads. The series of security failures that allowed Crooks to get into position to shoot Trump has shocked Congress, sparking a House investigation as well as an independent probe. Secret Service Director Kimberley Cheatle resigned from her post last week after being grilled by the House Oversight and Accountability Committee about the attempted assassination. Police on scene were unable to find Crooks again after being made aware of his presence near the building he later climbed. Just after Trump took the stage at 6:03 p.m., members of the crowd pointed out a suspicious man on a nearby rooftop. FBI Director Christopher Wray testified last week that a local Butler police officer was then boosted onto the roof to confront Crooks, but was met with a gun being pointed at him. With no free hands to grab his own gun and fire back, he dropped to avoid being shot. Just “seconds” later, Wray said, Crooks fired eight rounds towards Trump. He was quickly shot and killed by a Secret Service countersniper team. 💯 Join our mission to uncover the truth in crime! Support Police Off the Cuff on Patreon for exclusive content and insider access. Click now and become a part of our detective squad: https://www.patreon.com/policeoffthecuff 💬 Did you like this video? Let me know in the comments below! ✅ Subscribe to Police off the Cuff right now! Click here: https://www.youtube.com/@PoliceofftheCuff?sub_confirmation=1 Or become a YouTube Member to get access to perks here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKo80Xa1PYTc23XN_Yjp8pA/join --------------- Welcome to the Official YouTube Channel of Police off the Cuff This is where the veil of mystery on high-profile cases is lifted through the sharp insights of seasoned law enforcement professionals and where real crime meets real analysis. This is your destination for exploring the complexities of true crime stories, illuminated by the rich experience and street wisdom of those who have walked the thin blue line. At the helm is retired NYPD Sergeant Bill Cannon, a figure of authority in the crime investigation arena, with a diverse background that spans across acting, broadcasting, and academia. Bill's profound knowledge and keen analytical skills, combined with his empathetic approach, make each story not just heard but felt. Phil's extensive investigative experience, coupled with his genuine passion and characteristic Brooklyn charm, adds depth and relatability to the discussions. ➡️ Here we navigate the intricate web of the nation's most captivating crime stories, offering not just stories, but an education on the realities of criminal investigation. Their combined expertise provides a unique lens through which the stories are told, offering insights that only those with firsthand experience can provide. Join us on this journey into the heart of true crime, where every episode promises a deep dive into the minds of criminals and the tireless efforts of law enforcement to bring them to justice. --------------- 📲 Follow Police off the Cuff on social media: Instagram ▶️ https://www.instagram.com/policeoffthecuff Facebook ▶️ https://www.facebook.com/Policeoffthecuff-312794509230136/ Twitter ▶️ https://twitter.com/policeoffthecuf 🎧 Dive deep into true crime with Police Off the Cuff Podcast. Join retired NYPD expert Bill Cannon as he dissects infamous cases with insider insight: https://anchor.fm/otcpod1 ☑️ Support Police Off the Cuff and help us bring you more captivating crime stories. Every contribution makes a difference! Choose your preferred way to donate: Venmo: https://venmo.com/William-Cannon-27 PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/policeoffthecuff1gma --------------- 📚 Disclaimer: This video may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. --------------- #PoliceOffTheCuff

(upbeat music) - Hello everyone and welcome to Police of the Cuff Real Crime Stories. I'm your host, retired NYPD Sergeant Bill Cannon, a 27 year veteran of the NYPD. Folks, more and more information has been coming out in regards to the attempted assassination on former President Trump. And the biggest thing that we can think of and that just screams out at not just law enforcement professionals, but everyone, the public, people that are watching what the results are going to be in this investigation. And the biggest thing is the communication breakdown. Beaver County SWAT and Secret Service never communicated. They were supposed to have a meeting before the start of this rally and that never happened, that never took place. And that is unheard of in law enforcement, preparation, preparedness. They're supposed to absolutely speak to each other. So how does that make people feel that are following this? People from other countries that view the US Secret Service as an elite unit. And when you see some of the mistakes they made in this incident, that's all I can refer to it as, it's really very egregious and amateurish even. And the Secret Service pointing fingers at local law enforcement, that's a little bit unprofessional too. And now local law enforcement pointing back at the Secret Service, no. We told you this at this time and you did not listen to all. And not just listen, our text messages that we sent you. So we're gonna get more into this. What, how could this have been prevented? Of course, after the fact, what it should have could is, but that is life. And unfortunately, you cannot make these kind of mistakes. So folks, hold onto your seats, hold onto your hat, hold onto your next-door neighbor, hold onto your service dog, get ready, you're about to enter true crime from a police perspective. You're about to enter the off the cuff zone, the police off the cuff zone. (dramatic music) - These are some common sense. - Yes sir, the other cars don't intend to crash by the driver. - We still don't know before the trailer. (dramatic music) - Folks, we've got a loaded lineup tonight, so I'm gonna get right to it. Joining me as a co-host tonight, retired NYPD detective and straight out of Brooklyn, Phil Grimaldi, Phil, welcome to the show. - Thank you, Billy, thank you for having me and I'm really excited to try and get into this and get down to some of the facts. - Absolutely, and I don't, I can't believe I got him to come on the show tonight because he's been, he's like a celebrity now. He's been on every damn talk show, he's a talking head on CNN, on Fox, on news nation. And somehow I got a call into him and he said, yeah, I'll come on your show. I thought it was gonna be like one o'clock in the morning by the time you got through with all the shows. Anyway, welcome to the show, retired FBI agent, attorney, all around great guy, Bobby Chcomb, Bobby, welcome. - I've asked good to see you. - Hey, Bobby, it's amazing that I was able to get you, but let's, we'll talk about that at another time. Anyway, Bobby, one of the things we spoke about earlier and what this case screams about the most egregious part of this case is right on this thumbnail, communication breakdown. Beaver County SWAT and Secret Service never communicated. Bobby, talk about that. - It's unheard of, and just to give a perspective, when I first, my first 16 years in the FBI in New York City, then I transferred to Los Angeles. When I got to Los Angeles, I was, one of the jobs I had was the Special Events Coordinator, which meant I coordinated all FBI assets at all Special Events that in LA, that means the Grammys, the Oscars, the Rose Bowl Parade. We had the Major League Baseball World Series in Anaheim while I had that job. So there was always a Special Event going on, and there were stalkers on some of these celebrities, with the Oscars and things like that. So we worked hand in hand with the LAPD, LA Sheriff, on the Golden Globes, we worked with Beverly Hills PD, 'cause that venue was inside Beverly Hills. So depending on the venue, we had other federal, state, and local law enforcement on scene. And, you know, after 9/11, we learned interoperability. The word interoperability came into play. Communications, that was part of the 9/11 commission's report. You know, talking between agencies, both, you know, state to state agency, city to city agency, and federal to state and city agencies. And one of the things we did was come up with plans. And all of these events have numerous planning phases to them. And one of the major planning phases is communication. And we actually had, and look, I'm going back almost 20 years now, we had our electronic technicians come out with like mobile cell towers and mobile repeaters that could be set up and could create like a radio zone, even in remote areas, even in rural areas like that, where everybody could be on the same frequencies, just for that particular event. You know, our federal radios that you guys know have like special coded frequencies and coded channels and stuff, so we sometimes have trouble talking from, communicating from our frequencies to other agencies. But we overcame that. There were, there are ways to overcome that. And we did that in time and time again, because we know how important communication is. It's vital. I mean, when you're talking with three, four, five different agencies involved, how do you not have the ability to talk to each other? How do you not put that into your plan? How do you not go over at the morning of the event? It's mind-by-by. - Absolutely. And it's so important to be able to communicate in real time, not seconds later, not minutes later, not by telephone. Phil, I know that you were trained and you worked a lot of these events yourself. You were dignitary protection trained. And your thoughts on this lack of communication here? - You know, Billy, the whole, the training process with the NYPD and the Intelligence Division, it mirrors the same training that the Secret Service gets with regard to dignitary protection. Now, but there's so much that goes into the pre-plan, before you even get to the event, they go, they advance the site, they identify all your vulnerabilities. Vulnerabilities in a wide open location like where the shooting took place would be. The rooftops, obviously, we know that already. Well, rooftops weren't covered. There was a water tower that was the highest point within a 500 yard range, let's say. And that wasn't covered. So there should have been either a spotter or a sniper on that water tower. There were a lot of vulnerabilities that were in covered. I think there was a breakdown in so many different areas. Now, I don't wanna knock the Secret Service, the immediate Secret Service agents that were around the president. They did exactly the training that it kicked in. When you have any type of a situation where there's an attack on your principal, the word gun, what is an attack on your principal, you cover the principal and you evacuate, that's just what they did. So they really exemplified the training. They really did a great job, in my opinion. However, all the stuff that went on beforehand and the day of, there's just so many different things. I mean, he was stopped at 5.30 p.m. - Well, I wanna play a video of that because when I was talking about the FBI, excuse me, at the FBI, the Secret Service, pointing at the local police department, pointing a finger at them. And now I don't know if it's tit for tat, but the local SWAT team is pointing back at the Secret Service, the fact that they sent them a text message about this shooter. And I mean, he was stopped at 5.30 p.m. with the rangefinder utilizing it and he wasn't taken into custody and questioned. He was let go and then they lost sight of him. So there was a lot of breakdowns. I think what you're gonna play is probably gonna explain some of them. - All right, let me put this on the screen. This is ABC News reporting this. - The Pennsylvania SWAT team that took up positions to defend the former president. ABC News senior investigative correspondent, Aaron Kotturski has the latest. - I remember standing in the parking lot talking to one of the guys and we just became part of history. Not in a good way. (crowd cheering) - The SWAT team from Beaver County, Pennsylvania knew something about the scrawny young man seemed off. He can be seen in this video obtained by ABC affiliate WTAE, skulking around former president Trump's rally. - Text messages between local snipers show they noticed Thomas Matthew Crooks at 4.26 p.m. Nearly two hours before the attempted assassination that would injure Trump, kill a man and severely hurt two others. You see me go out with my rifle, one of the snipers texted so he knows you guys are up there. By 5.14 p.m. they grew suspicious. He was looking up and down the building and just wandered around and it just seemed out of place. - Greg Nichols snapped these photos of the shooter. - We had a text group between the local snipers ever on scene. I had sent those pictures out to that group and advised them of what I noticed and what I'd seen. - What do you think is transpiring once you send in what you've sent in? - I assume that there would be somebody coming out to speak with this individual or find out what's going on. - So how do you know if Greg's concerns about Crooks are being relayed properly? - We don't. We have to assume that when he put that information out to command, that command took that information and did something with it. We don't know if they did. - None of the concerns appears to have reached members of Trump's Secret Service detail. The Washington Post reports they've complained they were never made aware of the warnings. In their first public comments about the assassination attempt members of the Beaver County SWAT team described to ABC News what they consider to be failures of planning and communication that would prove catastrophic. - We were supposed to get a face-to-face briefing with the Secret Service snipers whenever they arrived and that never happened. So I think that that was probably a pivotal point where I started thinking things were wrong because that never happened and we had no communication with the Secret Service. You had no communication with the Secret Service at all on that Saturday. - No, not until after the shooting, I believe. - Yeah. - And by then. - It was too late. - Bobby, your thoughts. - No, rages. I mean, I can't believe it happened that way. You know, when we did the planning for events, we had a checklist that we would go down the morning of the event and then an hour before the event and at event time, you know, like much like a pilot would go through a checklist around a plane or much like you've seen in the movies where NASA, you know, in mission control, everybody's going, are you a go, are you a go, are you a go, all the different systems, we would have that bomb text or you a go, squat or you a go, hazmat's in place. Everybody's where they're supposed to be and then we know we're ready to go for the event. You know, and yet, you know, we all have these million RV command posts and, you know, every city has them and every agency has them. And so you, you, you pull them in together and you have that kind of communication. You have somebody from each agency in there, this lack of communication, the fact that they had no briefing, I would have had about three briefings that day in person with everybody involved. One first thing in the morning, one at the midday and one just before the events about the start. I mean, that's the way you do these things. It's pretty boilerplate. And it's pretty routine, you know, in all of the events that I've been in and all the agency I've worked with, everybody understands the process. And here, it was just an abandonment of every principle that we worked with. - You know, Bobby, when the one SWAT team member said, we assumed, and I always think that of that word assume, what we were taught that it meant, there's little kids, you know, that never assume, you know, because-- - Yeah, I mean, there was, you know, the two things that came out recently in those days, the fact that, you know, we found out a couple of days ago that there was no briefing the day of. And then I think yesterday or today, you know, there was those text messages where the guy says, "You might want to let the Secret Service know." And I thought that was so casual. And so the lack of urgency, you might want to let them know. I would say, "No, I've got this guy detained." Somebody sent the Secret Service over here to grab him and take him off property and debrief him outside of the venue. You know, we've had that. Look, and sometimes you make a mistake. I remember several years ago, you know, somebody of the kitchen staff lost their card entering the venue where the Oscars were being held. He didn't have his ID on him. Somebody braced him. You know, we brought him outside. You know, it was a mistake after a while. We knew who he was in his supervisor camp. He dusted them off, apologized, and sent them back in. But you have to err on the side of caution. You have to err on the side of getting them away from the principal, away from the venue, and figure everything out, even if they're slightly suspicious. And then dust them off, apologize, send them back in if you have to. But here, there was just no urgency with respect to a very suspicious person and the former president of the United States about to take the stage. - You know, Phil, I know that you had mentioned before to me that the fact that they had this suspicious guy and then they lost sight of him. The next communication goes to the president's detail. Do not let him get on the stage. Get Phil? - 100% Bill, you and I talked about it earlier. Once they had a person using a range following, the acting suspiciously, he should have been detained. I said that to you earlier. I would have detained him throughout the event. I would have made sure he didn't have access to a backpack or anything else, a cell phone, anything like that. And we're gonna talk to him. We're gonna say, listen, we're gonna run a check, keep him detained. Once the event is over, the principal's out of there, that's a different story. You could follow up with him later on. But I think that you're 100% right, Billy. Why didn't they have communication right to his detail? His detail should have been told, listen, we wanted to lay it for 15 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever, till we try and locate a suspicious individual. There were multiple people spotting this kid. This wasn't just one set of eyes. There were multiple people plus civilians saying there's a guy on the roof. There was an ample amount of time to have prevented this shooting. I'm talking about within two or three minutes, there was ample time to prevent it. And it would have saved the life of the volunteer fireman that was killed and the other two people shot and President Trump getting shot in the year. There was ample time. But going back to the planning, there was a lot of things that were missed early on that he should have never been able to access that roof. That's just another thing. There's many, many mistakes that were made. I don't think they were all intentional. I don't think it was the Secret Service as a whole. I just can't believe it. And I think, Bob, you touched on it, that whenever we did a detail where a high value of dignitary protection detail, whether it be president, vice president, or a head of state from out of the country, we always had contact. And like you said, Bob, we would have tack meetings with them the day of several times. And then there would be all the advanced stuff that went on. So we would have that checklist already. Did you check this? Did you check that? I did a presidential detail for George Bush, the son. And I was so far away. There were so many layers that I never even got to see him when he was in the Waldorf Astoria Hotel. There were so many layers that you were tripping over different detectives and Secret Service agents in the hallways, in the staircases. So there was a maximum amount of security in a situation like that. President Trump deserved that same package. However, in this case, he didn't have it. The assets weren't there. I think a lot of the manpower wasn't there. And this led the door open to all these vulnerabilities. And we have the video that proves all the things that this guy did, flying the drone, all the different things. Bobbi, I want to ask you, it's been 16 days, since this has occurred, so it's over two weeks. One of the things I think we can all agree upon, the messaging by the Secret Service after this happened was horrific. I've never seen anything as bad as that. We're 16 days out. How would you grade the FBI, specifically directed Christopher Ray, in getting the information out. And so this isn't the conspiracy theorists aren't running wild. And he said a couple of things that had me concerned. One of them that he said Trump may have been hit with shrapnel when his doctor and everyone said no, he was hit with the damn bullet. They have the picture of the bullet flying in the air towards him. And I thought some of the messaging, even from the FBI's perspective, I'm going to let you speak. What are your feelings? Well, yeah, I think that was a dumb thing to say on Ray's part. I was live on television when he appeared for Congress on Wednesday, two days after the Secret Service Director's abysmal testimony. And I sat there very anxious watching director Ray. And I thought he did a good job. He actually came forward. He said some new information that the public didn't know. He confirmed some stuff that had until then were been only reported anonymously. He said we found eight cartridges. That's the first time we found out for a fact that there were eight spent cartridges on the roof. So he did provide a lot of information and confirmation. I mean, he said that stupid thing about the shrapnel and the FBI, as you saw, quickly walked that back. They got on and said, wait, wait, wait a minute. No, no, no. That was a bullet. We know it was a bullet. Now, why did he not know that? That was a little bit of poor preparation on his part, I guess. But I think overall, his appearance for Congress, now, he didn't have a high bar to meet because two days prior, the Secret Service Director, he was abysmal in her appearance. So there wasn't a real high bar for him to meet. But he got up there and he did what he had to do to put out some new information that we hadn't known before and to confirm some information that had only been previously anonymously reported. So I think he did OK. I mean, he admitted that, look, we're not seeing a whole lot of motive here. We're not seeing a lot of social media presence. I'm sure if they were finding this stuff, they'd be putting it out there. But I'm just thinking this is one of those cases where it's really hard to find motive because this kid just did not have a large digital footprint. It's surprising, certainly. But I don't have any reason to believe that they're hiding anything. I don't feel that. I mean, look, I'm not the biggest fan of the FBI the last couple of years. But in this case, I don't feel like they're hiding anything. I just think there's not a lot there. I think they know more than they've told us so far, obviously, the investigators do catch them. There is the case, and how much of that ultimately comes out and when is a question, an open question. And I don't know that, but hopefully it all will, and hopefully sooner rather than later. But I just-- I don't think there's a whole lot there. You know, when I was referring to the picture of the bullet, it was-- I'm referring to a picture that a New York Times reporter took that shows, actually, the bullet in flight and supposedly he used-- I'm not a camera buff, but won over 8,000 speed. It was shutter. And it actually caught the bullet in flight. Yeah, and you could see it. So the person in the chat asking that's unheard of, it was a one in a million camera shot that he got. So yeah, we did-- we were able to-- that's probably a good piece of evidence, too, to see that. You know, Bobby, one of the things-- My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B. But with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkton.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkton.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. Linkedin, the place to be, to be. Why I was critical of Christopher Reyes was, you know, we used to go to CompStat for the NYPD. And if you didn't know something, you would get eviscerated. I mean, they would transfer you, you know? And when he says, I don't have this up my fingertips, that was a no-go in CompStat. If you said that to me-- Yeah, that's the whole nature of CompStat, right? And not a lot of people, if you're fans of CompStat. I mean, a lot of careers were trashed by the system. So I'm used to it when someone says I don't have it. I'm used to the day you say, what do you mean you don't have it? Yeah, that's a pretty brutal system. I'm not sure it's applicable in a lot of different places. But yeah, people that haven't seen that or haven't seen-- haven't seen police executives sitting outside of CompStat room where they go in. It's not a comfortable place to be. And yeah, I-- it's not that. Congressional-- I mean, you saw the hearings. Congressional hearings are a bit of a circus. And I expect the same thing tomorrow morning when the Senate opens its investigative hearings. You know, like, we did see it last week in both the Secret Service Director's testimony and in race testimony. We saw certain Congress people using their time allotted to make political stance, political points, like gun control, or other things like that. So it's not always like the most substantive discussion of an issue. You try to get your points across, but it's not always a great form to do that. You know, Billy, there is a bit of a parallel between the CompStat and the congressional hearings. Because a lot of the people that are in Congress, they know the answers already. They've been briefed. So they know a lot of the information. Ray had a credibility problem going into it. I gave him a D at the start. Before he gets on the swan and he's going to speak, he's got a D because he's got a credibility problem from stuff in the past. But I think he probably rated about a C because he did give some information, but he said a couple of things. The thing about the bullet, and he said that when he speaks to President Biden that there was, he never noticed anything cognitively with him. So I think that brought his rating down, in my opinion. But he did supply some information. I think Bobby made the point. He didn't have a very high bar. So if anyone gave a little bit of information based on what Cheetah gave, they were getting higher grade. So I graded him about a C, but I think he definitely has some credibility issues. I think Bobby even touched on it the last few years. The FBI has had some, I don't think it's the agents. I don't think it's the field offices. I think it's the higher ups that has the problem and just wanted to get that out there. - I want to play this little piece from Fox News here. - Secret Service agent, Richard Starapoli. Thank you very much, Richard, for jumping back on with us. You joined us throughout. These text messages are disturbing. And when you read them, these were obtained by Senator Chuck Grassley and now shared with us. Let me put number four up on the screen. Someone followed our lead and snuck in and parked by our cars just so you know, dot, dot, dot. I'm just letting you know because you see me go out with my rifle and put it in my car so he knows you guys are up there. Message five, I did see him with a range finder looking towards stage FYI. If you want to notify SS snipers to look out, I lost sight of them. You read this and you think, wait, what about this? It was not an absolute immediate emergency, the things that they are saying that they saw in these text messages. And you don't alert that the Secret Service right by the president? - Well, I'll tell you, Sandra, it just gets worse and worse every day for the Secret Service. This is a classic example of the most basic breakdown in communication where it just should never have gotten to that point. As a matter of fact, I don't think it's going out on a limb here for me to say, given all the breakdowns that went on with this security plan and the lack of preparation that went into this thing, this event should never have taken place. It is inconceivable that no Secret Service agent had a face-to-face meeting with any of the tactical units. It just doesn't happen. - I think it's really important we work our way through this timeline considering the most recent details that we have, some of the additional information that we got today, starting with the ammunition that we know is purchased legally on that day, 50 rounds from a local gun store. The morning of July 13th, 11 a.m., crooks left his home, spent an hour near the shooting site, then returned home. 130, he left his house told his parents is going to the shooting range. It was then over two hours later, that he arrived back on the scene, began flying his drone. That was almost at four o'clock, okay, Richard? No photos or videos were taken from the drone. We are told there was not even a memory card in it. Perhaps that was even a mistake on his part. Then approximately four o'clock crooks drove around the area of the shooting. Shortly after, he was identified as a suspicious person. SWAT operators found him using a rangefinder, that was around 530, according to resources that that text message I just read. And then it was nearly six o'clock, four minutes before six, he was found carrying a backpack near that building. He then climbed the building using the HVAC piping to get on the roof. He jumped on other rooftops to get to the final position to take his shots. He fired eight rounds before being neutralized and the FBA I found eight shell casings at the scene. You look at that timeline, and Richard, and you know, just our amateur eyes say this was preventable. It was totally preventable. And even though you weren't a super service agent for 25 years and you describe yourself as amateur eyes, common sense needed to be the prevailing dictate of the day here. And apparently that went completely out the window. This was a total breakdown in anyone doing anything to intercept this kid that was seen walking around an hour and a half prior to the event, acting suspiciously. All it would have taken was someone to walk up to this kid, ask him, who are you? What are you doing here, engage in conversation? That would have given you the reading of, hey, where is this person's head at? And we'll probably would have prevented that kid from climbing up on that roof and firing those shots. I would love to have a real fancy explanation for you what happened here, but the bottom line is what happened here is the secret service failed to take any action to prevent what occurred here and allowed this to occur here from the outset, simply by not communicating with state and local authorities. That's all it would have taken. When I did sites and I've done many, many sites over the years on a really big scale, I talked to everyone, the tactical units, the snipers, the fire department. I even want to talk to the guy delivering the ice to the venue. I need to know who everyone is and what they're doing. And those people in effect become my eyes and ears and allow me to properly secure my site. It simply wasn't done here. And this is unacceptable. - And for all of us. - You know, Bobby, every time we listen to this stuff, it gets even worse. It gets absolutely worse. And when you look at that timeline, I just want to throw something out there. I'm not saying there was another shooter that day, but I'm saying he had help. And I think he had help in the preparation and in the planning and in learning about account of surveillance and how to beat the police, this is what they're going to do. This is where you can defeat their weaknesses. And they had many weaknesses as we saw. - Yeah, I don't know that any of those weaknesses would show up if you were trying, like you wouldn't even, even if you were planning, if you were him and planning this, I don't think you could count on the police and Secret Service being as inept as they were that day. I think you would have planned for them to be like more on the ball and he seemed not to. He seemed to give himself up. If they were on the ball, if they had a good plan, they executed a plan, he would have never gotten far. So if you think he had help and you think he had a plan, it wasn't a very good one because the only reason he got as far as he did was not because his planning and not because his skill. It was because the ineptness of the plan and the execution of that plan on site by the people by the law enforcement. That's why he got, that's why he was successful, not because he was some mastermind. I don't see anything to me that indicates he had a high level of training or any kind of sophisticated planning. He wandered up there, he was known, he didn't sneak. I mean, you know, if he had planning, you would have never seen him before. - My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laughing at me to this day. - Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. Linkedin, the place to be, to be. - He took those shots on the roof somehow. - But probably how about the fact that he re-conned it. He had a drone re-conned, he built three IEDs with a remote control. - That bothers me, but his re-con was a 345 that afternoon. If you're gonna re-con something properly, you would anticipate they would see you there at 345. You would think that the venue is probably locked down. My venues were locked down the night before. We ran dogs through and we locked it down the night before. And so he would have, you would have thought that he would have re-conned it earlier or earlier. - He did, Bobby. Actually, if you look at that graphic that was just up at 11 a.m., he went to the site. He drove in the area and then he went back home. Then he went, he told his parents he was going to the range around 1.30 p.m. 3.45, he went back to the scene. That was the second time in the same day. He had purchased the ammo earlier in the morning. Then he had gone back the second time. He flew to drone, but he only flew for a few minutes. It looks like it was at 4 p.m., he was seen driving in the area. And then at 5 p.m., that's when he was identified as the suspicious person in 5.30. That's when they find him using the range find. I mean, with all of those things, I think the people who are in place that noticed him, they just didn't follow up on it, you know? And I think he'd been making a great point though, Bobby. He should have never been able to infiltrate the area as many times as he did. I mean, the minute he's flying a drone at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, the presence going on the stage at 6, something right there. That should have been a long balance. And plus all the other things that he did, you know? - Right, I think that that venue should have been locked down way before that. - Absolutely, and he should have never been allowed to go on the stage until they found him, detained him, made sure everything was good. And we've all done these things where a situation erupts, something wasn't covered. Let's hold off, let's keep the principal at bay for a few minutes until we, you know, we had a suspicious car in front of a hotel one time when we had a high-level dignitary coming out of New York Palace Hotel. We waited until that car was out of the area, 100%. We cleared the block, then we allowed him. And it was only, he was coming out of the hotel and getting in the car. It was about a 15, 20-yard dash from the front door to the car. But we were a little concerned. The car looked like it was out of place. We went over, got the car out of there, and then we continued on with our plan. So they dropped the ball in a lot of areas. That's really the bottom of it. - And his close-in team, those guys have been with him since 2015 when he became a candidate. They've been with him almost 10 years. He loves them, they love him. And they would have turned to him and said, "Boss, we're gonna hold off for 15 minutes, 20 minutes." He would have been fine with that. - And they've done that before, Bobby. They've definitely talked about that. They've done that numerous times. - Absolutely, absolutely. If they were told that there was a suspicious guy, they would have said, "Hey, boss, let's hold off for a few minutes." And then they would have had somebody go out there and brace this guy. I'm on a text string with a couple of retired agents and different people from different agencies. And it's not an excuse, it's not. And I don't give them any corner here, but you had the first lady, I think, was in Pittsburgh that day. You had, I think, no, the first lady was in Philadelphia. The vice president was in Pittsburgh, all in the same state, right? So somebody was theorizing, this wasn't my theory, but somebody was theorizing that, they were strapped for manpower. This was the Trump rally in a very rural area. Those Trump rallies tend to be love-fests. All his base turns out, they just adore Trump. And maybe they thought this wasn't going to be like a very high targeted event. And so they pointed off on some new guy to do the operational plan 'cause he needed the experience in drawing up an ops plan. We all start somewhere. I'm not sure I'd buy into that, but there was clearly a lack of resources. Now we're hearing some secrets. Now we've heard initially that they said, no, we'd never denied resources. Now we're hearing they did deny resources. It was a manpower and a funding issue. And now we're hearing they wouldn't deploy Secret Service Center counter sniper teams outside of driving distance from DC. I don't know what that's about. So there's going to be rallies all over this country in the next couple of months. I mean, we're in the home stretch of a very contentious presidential race. Secret Service better get this thing figured out. But Bobby, isn't it your experience? I mean, you did operations from the planning stage. I mean, the Secret Service, they're calling for security location. They get local law enforcement. They make sure it's done. You've got to have people on this roof. You've got to have people on this building. And it just seems like that wasn't done. That part of it, I think, is really where they lacked. - Yeah, whenever I worked with the Secret Service, the last time I remember it was Reagan's funeral here in California, they're notorious. They don't play well with others. And what I mean by that is they're nice people and they're very good at what they do normally. But when they say those, I mean, even-- - They demand that. - When they were on scene and they had a protectee, 'cause they're protectees of the highest level, we stood down or we took direction from them, which is unusual for us, but we took direction from them whenever they were on scene. And it was their call and we just did what they asked us to do. And that was us, the LAPD, Ellie Sheriffs, everybody did that. Whenever Secret Service was on scene, they were in charge and everybody listened to them. And if they told us, we need six guys up on that roof and can the FBI handle that, we would find those six guys and put them on that roof. It's just the way it operates. And this is such a really departure from everything I know and everything I've experienced with Secret Service. And that's why you have former Secret Service guys, like you just played, Billy, on there saying this is outrageous. He doesn't know how this even happened with the Secret Service, 'cause it certainly never happened in his decades of experience with the service. - You know, Bobby, we're also hearing that the shooter had three magazines with 30 rounds in each magazine. I believe he was also an active shooter and had he not been taken out, I believe he would have just kept shooting. - Yeah, I believe also that he was going to use those devices in his car if he got back to them. And I think that, you know, in reality, I, you know, and this is all conjecture on my part. I think he was surprised at how easily he got on that roof. And when he did, he's like, oh, oh, oh, shoot, I can kill Donald, I actually have the ability. Like, I think he was planning on doing something less than that to cause havoc and then get back to his vehicle and use those IEDs. And like you said, go on an active shooter and move around a little bit. But when he saw how easy it was for him to penetrate that venue and how easy it was to get on a roof that had a perfect line of sight for his shot at that stage, I think he said, I'm gonna go for it. Forget the IEDs in the car. I can actually take a kill shot right from here. - You know what, Billy, he had, I'm sorry, Bobby, he had a transmitter with him. So I think he might have been trying to use the transmitter as a diversionary tactic to escape, or perhaps use the explosion to divert attention and then shoot a truck. So there was something going on there. Now, Ray said that the switches that were on the IEDs were on off. He said it might have been a mistake on his part. I'm not sure if I believe all of that. I mean, he did say that. And I think I'm gonna take that with a grain of salt, but he wasn't able to get to that transmitter. Thank God that that sniper was able to take him out when he did and prevent any, like Billy said, we were looking at a mass casualty event if he was able to get to those other two clips and start on loading on the crowd. So amazingly, this really, really shocked me. The crowd didn't disperse. Everybody stood in place. I mean, a lot of people got down. That was really just very out of character for a situation where you have a large group of people and shots are going off. I mean, eight shots for I had nine with the sniper shot and the people didn't scatter. That was really just mind-boggling to me. - Absolutely. Let me just go to a quick commercial. Folks, this is police off the cuff. If you like real crime, true crime from a police perspective, then you're in the right location. And if you're not subscribed to us going on YouTube, hit that subscribe button. Give us a thumbs up, ring that bell, push the like button. And if you want to contribute to us, we have a Patreon with four different levels. And we also have a YouTube channel membership with count 'em five different levels. And we appreciate all our fans, our subscribers and our friends that make this show what it is and have us able to continue doing this night after night, week after week. And again, we appreciate all you guys. This whole situation obviously has to change. And if anything, one was outed, Bobby, in this situation, as we say in the police department, shit rolls downhill. And the director of the Secret Service, she obviously had to resign. I almost felt bad for her watching those hearings. She was like, she was taking lefts, rights, hooks, uppercuts, everything. And she had no answers, she had no answer. - Yeah, I felt a little bit of her. I'm with you on that. And then I know somebody who worked with her when she was an agent, and by all accounts, they said she was a good agent when she was younger, but she just got, you know that old accident that you get promoted to the level of your incompetence. That may be what happened with her. She might've been a better agent than she was an administrator. And we know that she was on, I think, the first late on Michelle Obama's detail for many, many years, and when they were transitioning to leaving the White House, I think Michelle and some of her people kind of really touted her for the director's ship when it became open. And so, yeah, I felt bad for her, but you know what? And then I knew she had to go. I didn't really think she had to go last week, 'cause oftentimes when that happens, it gives the agency a little bit of cover. And now they're in transition and a new person takes over and he gets a little bit of a honeymoon period. And if she would've stayed in place, you know, she's got to come up with the answers and the solutions because the answers are one thing, but like I said, I mean, you've got a very contentious presidential race in the thick of it now. You've got the convention coming up. And after that, it's the home stretch. And there's gonna be a lot of rallies and they've got to figure this out because a man lost his life. He was killed in front of his two daughters and his wife. He had his, I don't want to say, you know, but he, you know, what those kids saw and what that wife saw, nobody should have to do that. He was simply participating in our free political process. He was supporting a candidate of his choice and he lost his life for it in a horrible way. And no one should ever, you know, no one should ever forget that. There was a life loss of somebody who was simply showing up to support a candidate of his choice in the political process. And that's a horrible aspect of this whole thing. And it should never happen again. - Absolutely. From the chat, Michael Gillespie, she was told not to answer. Well, I've heard that before that people felt that she was told not to answer any questions because she truly had no answers. And I was baffled by the fact that she had no paperwork with us because we all know-- - Billy, wait, I just got to get this out there. You think that she didn't know that eight shots was fired when she was talking to eight days after the end. She knew, she, I just can't even imagine some of the things that she said she didn't know. I mean-- - But Phillip was unacceptable to everyone watching it that she didn't say it because she was incompetent. She looked like a boob, a bee, a bee. - She was coming her nose at Congress at some points. I mean, you know, you heard some of the Congressmen how upset they were, I never heard cursing in the, she said you're full of, you know, and she was. I mean, she was literally kind of thumbing her nose at people on that committee. And they, you know, there was, like you said, there was certain stuff that she definitely knew. - Of course. - You know, I mean, it could have been divulged. Listen, we know that they're not gonna say everything. I get that and I'm okay with that. But the basics, they just, you know, the amount of shots that were fired, she knew that, right, there's, you know, five minutes after it happened. And a lot of other things she could have talked about, she chose to say nothing though. I mean, she could do it two days later. They probably went before Ray got up there the night before. He said, okay, here's the things, it's almost like chumming. It's like throwing them some meat to satisfy them a little bit. You gotta give them something. Just to satisfy them 'cause the sharks are in the water. And so, you know, I think that that was attacked. You know, Ray probably could have said more, but he gave them just enough in his estimation to keep the wolves at bay. She took the opposite attack. She took, I mean, I was, it was painful to watch. I mean, she looked kind of defiant. I mean, I think maybe she went up there knowing she was out. And she just said, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna talk this, you know, because I'm out anyway, I don't know. But it was a horrible- - You know, I go to Bobby, she was the director of the Secret Service and she never even went to the local. I mean, she should have been there that day. I mean, it's just unheard. She might have been a great agent. I noted people said nice things about her. I got some of that feedback too as well. But bottom line is that she really could have did a much better job. She kind of created her own downfall. You know what I mean? With the lack of communication, lack of response and lack of answers, all these things. And then the next day, it was obvious she had to resign. - Yeah, absolutely. - Well, you know, when you show that much content leadership actually, very poor leadership because, you know, poor leadership, you're judged by, you know, chain is judged, it's weakest link, right? And chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. And the weakest link was at the top. - Yeah, I mean, I had a, you know, I did so many appearances last week, somebody, you know, mostly I get some bad, bad, bad precedent on social media. But somebody said something like, you know, "Oh, you know, I hope Trump picks you to run the FBI." And I'm like, "No, I don't want that job." You know, I spent 27 years in the bureau and I spent a total, in 27 years, a total of three hours inside FBI headquarters. I never wanted to go there. I avoided like the plague. I didn't have a lot of respect for things that happened in FBI headquarters. Even my time, if this is before the Russian hoax and the laptop, all of that, before my time, I never had much use for it. I always wanted to be a street agent. I always wanted to stay at the operator level, which I did for 27 years. And I have my law degree. I could have raised my hand. I could have went up in management. I didn't want to wear a suit. And I never wanted to go to FBI headquarters. And I successfully did that for 27 years. So like, I don't want any part of that. I don't know that I'd be a good administrator, a good desk jockey, a good, 'cause you got to be political at that point. And, you know. - That's the magic word, political, Bob. - Yeah. - It's a different job. It's a different job. I didn't sign up for that job, you know? And that's, I signed up to put bad guys in jail. And that's what I did. - No, Bobbie, I think not just the FBI got politicized. I think the armed services has also, you know. - Sure, yeah. - When you see some of those generals, it's, I wanted to vomit watching some of them testify. - The IRS, the IRS. - The IRS was weaponized. - Yeah, I mean, you can go right down the list, you know. - Billie, on our own job on EMYPD, some of the greatest forces in the world, they became PC and they just, everything changed. It became political. It's a, you're at the mercy of the mayor. You work on the his, on the his hand. And if he does something and wants something, don't you don't do it, you're out. So, I used to say, and I'll keep this as clean as I possibly can. - I know we go. - At the point of course, they say, when you make sergeant, you lose a certain part of your anatomy. We tell it, you lose another cap and you lose another. And once you're a chief, you're a eunuch, you know. - And the PC, they say you had to check a piece of your body or your anatomy at the door. - Check it in at the desk downstairs, yeah. - Yeah, so, I mean, listen, we know that all things in law enforcement have a political component to them. The motivation is always political, whether it be a police officer involved shooting or something like this. We know that there's politics involved, but I think that we went over it. The communication was horrible. A lot of mistakes were made. We pointed out all of the mistakes. We just need to make sure, and I think Bobby made the best point. An American citizen was killed. Corey Compertory was killed in front of his family. Two other shot, the president was shot. We could never allow this to happen again. They have to make sure, I mean, we had the JFK assassination. Many, many years ago, there have been a couple of assassination times since then. And we learned nothing at all that time. Come on, guys, this is the time to say, we're gonna make sure that nobody at that level is ever in that amount of danger again. And with regard to crooks, I think, Bobby, I saw this, you were on Fox List weekend. You said he had no military train that we know of. He seemed to have an education, but he wasn't a very good shot and stuff. I just feel like there was so many components to what he did. I almost feel like I agree with Billy that there had to be somebody either. I mean, I can't believe he was self-educated from the internet to make bombs, to do all this recon, fly to drone, have the range, find the get up on the roof. He had to be up on that roof before or know about going up to those pipes. So I don't know if there was help or if it was maybe somebody peeing in his ear, or I just feel like how could he have been self-educated, you know? - Yeah, I wouldn't jump inside. And it could be. I just don't know yet. And there could be reasons why the university hasn't found that and just not released it yet, because they would be hunting those people now maybe or waiting for them to smoke to clear, to smoke them out. One of the things that jumped out to me was his parents reporting him missing just a few hours after he was gone, that normally wouldn't alarm parents of a 20-year-old kid unless they thought he had the potential of doing something crazy or something violent because he was only gone, as far as I know, he's only gone a few hours, right? I mean, why did the parents report him missing to police or to somebody? I think it was the police. He's a 20-year-old man, a young man, and he's an adult and why did they feel that they needed to report him missing? Why did they feel like either he was a danger to himself or a danger to others because normally an adult, you don't report missing that quickly. - Yeah, I have to agree with you, Bobby. According to the timeline that Fox put up, 1.30 p.m. is when he left and told his parents he was going to the shooting range. I don't know exactly the time he reached out. I think the parents reached out to a local police if I'm not mistaken. Not sure about the timeframe, but he was talking about, or he searched some type of a depressive disorder when he searched for the photos, the images of President Biden and former President Trump, and he also went on his phone and he looked up depressive disorders. So I think that that inkling that he was depressed. - My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing at me to this day. - Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be to be. - What did he had issues going on? He had access to that AK style weapon. He went to the range, the AR weapon, and he went to the range. So perhaps with him not being at the range, maybe they went there or they called. He didn't respond, and that's when they went to the local police. But I think you're right on track, Bobby. I think that there's gonna be some type of red flag that they saw and try to react to it. Just a bad recipe, the whole situation's a bad recipe. If he's got any kind of emotional issues and he has access to that firearm, that right there is a big no-no. - Well, you know, Bobby, to your point from before, even active shooters, they do a certain amount of planning also before they do their dirty deed. And obviously, the planning is to try to not get caught, but if they do get caught most of the time or a high percentage of time, they kill themselves. - Yeah, well, seriously, I might cop. - Yeah. - Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, but you're right. I mean, to your point, you know, those devices left back in his car, you wouldn't leave them back there unless you were planning on using them in some way. So I think that he had some, he might've had alternative plans. He might've said, well, if I can't get into the venue, I'm gonna come back and get these devices and put them just outside the fence line. But if I can get in the venue, I'm gonna penetrate as deep as I can and try to get the shuttle. I don't, you know, it's impossible to really know unless he wrote that stuff down somewhere. But he definitely had either alternative plans or additional plans addition to what he had done. Now, I don't know why or how he would've thought that he was gonna climb on that roof, take a few shots at Trump and successfully get off that roof alive, that doesn't seem to be reasonable to me, it's even for him to think. So maybe he had alternative plans and he abandoned them for when he realized, oh, I can get close enough to take a kill shot here. And that may have surprised him. And maybe if he had some resistance to that plan, he was going to go back to his vehicle and he was gonna go to plan B, I don't know. - I think Bobby, the remote transmitter may have been the escape plan. Fire the shots, execute the device, you know, activate it. But they did say that the remote was off on the actual device. So I don't know, but it does sound like you're right, there was an alternative plan there, perhaps an escape plan, a diversionary plan. But who knows, maybe like you said, he says, wow, I can get this close, forget that, I'm just gonna do what I gotta do and whatever happens happens. But, and then you had the people on the roof, or pointing to the roof saying is a man up there would've gone, the cop gets, you know, boosted up onto the roof, he sees him, points the gun, and that's when he begins firing. I think that was probably something that saved lives as well. That, 'cause he was startled and he was rushed and then once the shots start the sniper gets him, so that kind of put a kink into his plan. - I agree, that's what I thought in the beginning. I thought that cop getting up there forced him to start to shoot earlier than he intended to. And I think you're right, I think that's safe for sure. - And Bobby initially, it seemed like the media wanted to make him a scapegoat. And when they realized that what he did was totally proper, how, you know, what are you gonna just, okay, shoot me, he can't reach for his gun. The guy's got an AR-15 pointed at his face, you know. - Yeah, because I think they, I think the initial impression was, well, the cop was kind of leaning up over the lip of the roof, looking, people didn't realize he was actually holding on with both hands, and he kind of poked up. And then, man, as soon as you see that rifle point at your head, you get the hell down. - If that was, if that was Rambo, you would have held on with one arm, and got his gun on loose, and it threw a knife at him. - Yeah, it went through the knife at him. - Yeah. - Sunshine Susie, thank you for the 1999 super sticker. Car van, what's the story? I'm confused, can someone explain what vehicle was there? Bobby, can you answer that? - I don't know what kind of vehicle, 'cause initially I heard that the vehicle was like a mile away, but then from these text messages, it seems like they saw him parking in the same area where the cops are parking, am I wrong? - Yes, so that must have been closer than a mile. - On the day of the incident, they flat-bedded a van away from the location. So everybody, I think, was focused on that being the vehicle. I don't think that was the vehicle that could have been another vehicle was suspicious. I don't know if it was a secondary vehicle he had, who knows if he had two different vehicles, but I think what you said, Bobby, that makes the most sense based on the text messages. I mean, text messages between the offices, they're saying that he followed us in, and I went, you know, he showed him that I had a rifle and he knows you guys are up there. I guess that was kind of like a psychological thing that they were trying to do to get, you know, to maybe stem off any ideas if a suspicious person had. So to answer the question, I think it was a car and not a van, but we really, it's kind of up in the air at this point. - You know, Bobby, one question, and the two police commissioners couldn't answer this question last week when we asked them, both Edmund Hartnett, great guy, we love them, I'm not criticizing them. And Pat Ryder, NASA County Police Commissioner, he's a super guy also. I asked them what actually are the rules of engagement for the snipers? - Well, I mean, I, from what I've read. - Just the point with Bobby. - Yeah, and Phil would probably know better cause he's gotten that same dignitary protection training. I've never was a guy that ever wanted to jump in front of a bullet to save somebody else, unless it was a family member, you know, or a team member of mine. But certainly not a politician or a bureaucrat, but I think that the rules of engagement at that point are, look, you know, I mean, if you think about it, they're the same as we have in the street. If there, if you see somebody with a gun, with a deadly weapon and they're about to take the life of yourself or somebody else, then you can use deadly force against them. Well, that sniper is seeing those shots go out. Right away, that's deadly force policy. That's actually not even rules of engagement, that's standard law enforcement deadly force policy. Someone is using a deadly weapon in the threat of a life of yourself or somebody else, that meets that definition of deadly force and they can take that shot soon as, I mean, you don't wanna wait. I think the rules of engagement would come in is if he shot him before he got a shot off, that's different. And I think they could do that under their rules of engagement when they're protecting the president or former president. But here, once those shots started ringing out, any officer using almost any deadly force policy that I know of in any department, would be justified in using deadly force against that against crooks at that point. - Bobby, you hit the nail right on the head. I have to agree with you 100%. But I did find out that the Secret Service is the only law enforcement agency in a country that does not have to get a green light to fire a shot at a dignitary protection, a presidential detail, something of that nature. Most other agencies, I know the NYPD emergency services, got a sniper on, let's say, a hostage situation. They need the green light. In the military, most cases, they need the green light. But what you said really hits the nail right on the head. This is not a situation where we're doing an observation. We know that this is a bad guy, do I have the green light? No. Once the bullets start, he was up on that roof and he's pointing a rifle at the president. I think at that point, whether you be Secret Service or any other law enforcement agency, there's no need for a green light. You have an active shooter or someone that's about to start shooting, pointing a rifle, an AR style rifle at the former president of the United States. I don't think that there's any need for any green light or anything like that. However, the Secret Service is the only agency that doesn't have a rule of engagement. They can fire on their, if their position is that they believe that this is an adversary and he's going to, like you said, do harm, deadly physical force. They don't need the green light. Wow, how many police commissioners does it take to put in a light bulb? (laughing) Hope they're not listening. They'll be, "We'll never come in on your show again." (laughing) Well, the answer came from paying attention on recent events in the media. So that's where I got that answer from. That was, no, that was a great answer. But I would, I would follow, like, for example, what if a guy is on the roof not pointing a weapon, what you see he has a weapon? I mean, I think-- Yeah, I think it was great. Then the rule of engagement come in. I think that's what Phil's talking about. I think it removes it from, you know, so you have a rules of engagement up to a certain point, and then when anybody starts firing into a crowd like that, any officer under almost any deadly force policy of any department can take action against them, deadly force against them. But what you're talking about, Bill, is I think that, you know, prior to the shot, things are different. You know, the rules of engagement are different. The Secret Service can take that shot. Our guys can't, like at Ruby Ridge and Waco, they couldn't. They were waiting for, you know, the go ahead. They have to get that from the Attorney General almost. So, but Secret Service, but that only-- that happens in the situation you're talking about, that before he starts firing, you know, how, you know, we have that deadly force policy. If he raises his gun, if it's down by his side, if he's about to drop it, you know, we've all seen those deadly force cases pop up. But in this kind of case, it would have been different. I think that that sniper could have taken that shot had he seen him before he started firing. There was an obstruction too, there were trees. So, I think that they said the shot he took was like a one in a million shot, 'cause only like three inches of his forehead that was visible through the scope. So, again, they may have been looking at him prior to, couldn't really see if it was, could have been friendly, could have been one of the local law enforcement snipers. So, that may or may not have played into this. But once you identify someone that's not part of a sniper team law enforcement, and he's pointing a rifle at the present in form of present, whatever it is, I think that common sense is gonna dictate and you're gonna have to do what you have to do. - My theory early on was, and not to get into the sloped roof thing again, that was ridiculous, that is. But there was a slight slope to that roof, there was a slight slope to it. And he was crawling up the far side of it on the opposite side from where the snipers were. And I think looking at the video of the sniper, the counter snipers, he's looking over in that direction and he kinda ducks down to his scope several times. I think what he was doing was he was hearing it on the radio that there was a guy in that roof and he kept looking and saying, "I don't see him, I don't see him." 'Cause he was slowly making his way up that side of the slope. And then once he saw the officer, and surprised him, and then he turned around and popped his head up and started shooting really fast. That's when the sniper took his shot. But I think, I don't think the sniper saw him before he started shooting. I think he was looking and he was getting it on the radio, but he's like, "I'm looking at that roof and I don't see him." Because he was on that slight down slope on the far side of that peak. And that's my opinion as to what happened, the sniper's point of view, that counter sniper didn't see him until the last minute. He was looking, if he was like, "Oh, why didn't he take the shot? "He's looking over there." 'Cause he was looking 'cause he heard it on the radio, but I don't think he could see the guy until the guy popped his head up and started shooting. - That really makes sense, too. - Bobby, I told Phil before we started the show tonight that Bobby Chacon has been working so much. I don't wanna keep him much more than an hour because, I'm sure, plus, he walks outside and he's a celebrity now. People are stopping him on the street. - That's right, that's right. - I wanna see him as a Fox News contributor and I know that that's coming for him. - Oh yeah, I wish. Yeah, no, I've been trying to get on some network, somewhere, news nation, Fox News. Look, I did the triple crown last night. - My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row, Azman. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing me to this day. - Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. - I did back-to-back in successive hours. I did Fox News, MSNBC and CNN. Back-to-back-to-back, and not many people do that because everybody has a slant and certain networks don't want certain people on because they just do this or that. And I think, my brother always says to your credit, people, different networks of different persuasions all call you in because they know they're gonna get like the straight scoop and they're not gonna get a political angle and not gonna get like, I don't consider myself a barking dog, the kind of guys I'm talking about on certain networks that get out there and they start, yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's not my name. - I was bands from News Nation. I guess that they would refer to me as a barking dog. Like what I said that Biden, he talked about the deadly physical force policy and he said, cops should shoot them in the arm or in the leg. And I said, that stuff stupidest. They had the last time I was ever on News Nation. (laughing) Well, they wouldn't negotiate a contributorship for me. And then they, all of a sudden, they stopped taking my agents calls and they hired a former female FBI agent to do that job. So I may not have the right qualifications in this day and age to, you know, whoa, whoa, oh, straight. - You know, Bobby, me and Bill are both big fans and we both said it before you came on. I'm not trying to kiss up or anything. We both said you're very, very good. We watch the news, we do this kind of stuff. We've done local news, we've done News Nation and stuff and you get the straight story, the details. But unfortunately, like you said, sometimes they're looking for a different fit. They're looking maybe for a female or something like that. So, but I think you got to just keep chipping away at it. You're doing a great job and we were just delighted to have you on tonight. - Oh, I know I gotcha. - You're coming short very well on that. - Bobby, you're giving me, now I know I'm a barking dog. (laughing) - Yeah, but I can hear you once more than that. What about your dog in the background? Everyone's asking me, is his dog alive? - Yeah, he's a dog sleeping. - They love the dog. Our fans love, love animals. - It's 115 degrees here. The dogs are a little tired. - Oh, okay. - Yeah, you don't hear them on Geno Bell, but you're getting there. - Oh, yeah, yeah, I hope not. I don't, he actually lives in Jupiter, I heard. - Oh, really? - Yeah, that's what I hear, yeah. - He's the quintessential barking dog. - Oh, absolutely. I love what he threatens Geraldo. Geraldo's about 90 years old. (laughing) - Geraldo went to my high school on Long Island. We went to the same high school. - Is that right? - First his name was Jerry Rivers, then. - That's right. Phil, your final thoughts. - My final thoughts before I referred to Corey Compittori as the retired volunteer fireman. God bless his soul in heaven that he died for this event. Just exercise his right to back a candidate, his poor family, keep them in your thoughts and prayers. The other two people that were shot, David Dutch and James Copenhagen, they're both recovering and former President Donald Trump by the grace of God, his life was spared. Again, the point can't be made enough. We have to make sure that this should never, ever happen again. And if it was President Biden that was faced with this situation or any other person on the other side of the aisle, I would feel the same way. He's the president of all United States. If he's threatened and he's shot at, I would feel the same exact way. We cannot allow this to happen. I think that we made a lot of great points on this show tonight. It was a pleasure to have Bobby on as usual. He's a real deal FBI agent and he worked with guys in Brooklyn, South homicide out of my office. So I know he got a lot of good backing from the guys, Mikey Heinrichs and all the guys that he mentioned that he worked with before. So we love having him on and keep going. Bobby, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna be a contributor on one of these stations, I'm sure. - I always appreciate it for you guys. - So leave the gun, take the canollies, right? (laughing) - That's Bobby. - Bobby, your final thoughts. - My final thoughts are Secret Service has to figure this out and they have to do it quickly. They have to come out and say, here's the mistakes that were made. And you know, just don't, we're staying here tonight. And just what we're seeing, we're tired Secret Service agents all over the news saying, now we need to hear from the service and we need to hear, this is how things are gonna go from here on out. There's no time. We are in the midst of a presidential election. The next couple of months are gonna be a horse race to the finish and there's gonna be a lot of rallies and people have to feel safe at these things. And we have to deter other people from taking action like this. And the Secret Service getting out there, they don't have to give away any secrets, but they have to come out and say, these are the mistakes we made. And here's how we're gonna fix them. And going forward, these events are gonna be safe. They have to do that quickly. - Absolutely. Folks, on behalf of Police Off The Cuff, I'm Bill Cannon and I'm gonna have myself, Phil Gromaldi wanna thank Retired FBI agent, Bobby Jacon. He always gives a great perspective. That's why they're considering paying him to be a contributor. And that's why I've been banned. I'm a barking dog. Anyway, have a great night everyone. And God bless, we'll see you soon. - Thanks, thanks everyone. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) ♪ Yeah, left up, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ♪