Police Off The Cuff/Real Crime Stories

Nursing student Lauren Johansen murdered by boyfriend bailed out of jail.

Duration:: 1h 24m
Broadcast on:: 09 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Nursing student Lauren Johansen murdered by boyfriend bailed out of jail. #Bail #LaurenJohansen #BricenRivers HARRISON COUNTY, Miss. (WLOX) - Thursday, Lauren Johansen’s mutilated body was discovered in the back seat of her car in Harrison County. The man charged with her murder, ex-boyfriend Bricen Rivers, was released on bond for a violent felony just days earlier. ALSO READ: Murder victim identified, suspect arrested following manhunt in Harrison County In December 2023, Rivers was arrested by Nashville Metro Police and charged with aggravated kidnapping. Lauren Johansen’s father, Lance Johansen, told WLOX News that Rivers brutally beat his daughter and held her hostage while the two were on vacation in Tennessee. He also said that he warned a Nashville judge that Rivers was too dangerous to be let out of jail. “I sat in the courtroom in Nashville and told the judge that if they let him out, he was going to kill her,” Lance Johansen said. “He had assaulted her — this was probably the fifth or sixth time where they would get into a fight and he would beat her. We would get her away from him for a while, but he would find a way to weasel back in it.” (WLOX) Listening sites for POTC/Real Crime Stories https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/police-off-the-cuff-real-crime-stories/id1452116115 https://embed.podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/police-off-the-cuff-real-crime-stories/id1452116115?itsct=podcast_box_player&itscg=30200&ls=1&theme=auto 💯 Join our mission to uncover the truth in crime! Support Police Off the Cuff on Patreon for exclusive content and insider access. Click now and become a part of our detective squad: policeoffthecuff676.com www.patreon.com/policeoffthecuff 💬 Did you like this video? Let me know in the comments below! ✅ Subscribe to Police off the Cuff right now! Click here: https://www.policeofthecuff676.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@PoliceofftheCuff?sub_confirmation=1 Or become a YouTube Member to get access to perks here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKo80Xa1PYTc23XN_Yjp8pA/join --------------- Welcome to the Official YouTube Channel of Police off the Cuff This is where the veil of mystery on high-profile cases is lifted through the sharp insights of seasoned law enforcement professionals and where real crime meets real analysis. This is your destination for exploring the complexities of true crime stories, illuminated by the rich experience and street wisdom of those who have walked the thin blue line. At the helm is retired NYPD Sergeant Bill Cannon, a figure of authority in the crime investigation arena, with a diverse background that spans across acting, broadcasting, and academia. Bill's profound knowledge and keen analytical skills, combined with his empathetic approach, make each story not just heard but felt. Phil's extensive investigative experience, coupled with his genuine passion and characteristic Brooklyn charm, adds depth and relatability to the discussions. ➡️ Here we navigate the intricate web of the nation's most captivating crime stories, offering not just stories, but an education on the realities of criminal investigation. Their combined expertise provides a unique lens through which the stories are told, offering insights that only those with firsthand experience can provide. Join us on this journey into the heart of true crime, where every episode promises a deep dive into the minds of criminals and the tireless efforts of law enforcement to bring them to justice. --------------- 📲 Follow Police off the Cuff on social media: Instagram ▶️ https://www.instagram.com/policeoffthecuff Facebook ▶️ https://www.facebook.com/Policeoffthecuff-312794509230136/ Twitter ▶️ https://twitter.com/policeoffthecuf 🎧 Dive deep into true crime with Police Off the Cuff Podcast. Join retired NYPD expert Bill Cannon as he dissects infamous cases with insider insight: Become a Paid Subscriber: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/otcpod1/subscribe Check us out on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@PoliceofftheCuff, Police off the Cuff/Real Crime Stories. Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/otcpod1/support ☑️ Support Police Off the Cuff and help us bring you more captivating crime stories. Every contribution makes a difference! Choose your preferred way to donate: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/policeoffthecuff1gma Venmo @William-Cannon-27 https://www.buymeacoffee.com/policeoffty --------------- 📚 Disclaimer: This video may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner.

"My dad works in B2B marketing. "He came by my school for career day "and said he was a big row as man. "Then he told everyone how much he loved "calculating his return on ad spend. "My friends still laughing at me to this day." - Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. Linked in, the place to be, to be. (upbeat music) - Hello everyone and welcome to Police Off The Cuff. Real crime stories, I'm your host, retired NYPD Sergeant Bill Cannon, the 27 year veteran of the NYPD. Folks, we have a really sad case coming out of Mississippi. Actually, Harrison County, Mississippi. Nursing student Lauren Johansson murdered by her boyfriend, who was released from jail. If there was more errors in a case than I've seen in my police career, I've never seen it this horrific. A case obviously of boyfriend, girlfriend violence, you could call it domestic violence, but totally, totally predictable. Yet the criminal justice system has failed this young nursing student, 22 years old, had like everything to live for, was a winner, was someone that was gonna really affect this world in a positive way. In Harrison County, Mississippi on Thursday, Lauren Johansson's body was discovered in the back seat of a car in Harrison County. The man charged with her murder, ex-boyfriend, Bryson Rivers, was released on bond for a violent felony, just days earlier. And it gets worse, it gets worse. In December, 2023, Rivers was arrested by Nashville Metro Police in charge with aggravated kidnapping. Lauren Johansson's father, Lance Johansson told WLOX News that Rivers brutally beat his daughter and held her hostage while the tour on vacation in Tennessee. He also said he warned the Nashville judge that Rivers was too dangerous to be let out of jail. He said I sat in the courtroom and Nashville told the judge that if they let him out, he was going to kill her. This is according to Lance Johansson, the father of Lauren. He had assaulted her and this was probably the fifth or sixth time where they would get into a fight and he would beat her. We would get her away from him for a while, but he would find a way to weasel back in it. According to Davidson County District Attorney's Office, which serves Nashville, Rivers Bond was originally set at $250,000. After sitting in jail for seven months, his bond was reduced to $150. Stephen Hayslop with the DA's office told WLOX News, our office opposed the reduced bond set by the criminal court judge Cheryl Blackburn. As part of an agreement with Rivers Defense Attorney, Lance Johansson said that the family was to contact, they were to be contacted if there were any changes to Rivers status and he was supposed to be fitted with a GPS ankle monitor that did not happen. They let him out and they didn't tell us and didn't put the ankle monitor on him. They just let him walk out of jail, Johansson said. The following Monday, July 1st, Johansson received a voicemail from the Davidson County District Attorney's Office warning him about Rivers release and that he wasn't being tracked. WLOX News obtained a copy of that voicemail, which read, "This is barely calling from the District Attorney's Office and Nashville. Bryson Rivers was released from custody. He was supposed to report straight to a GPS company and he put on a GPS monitor and he was not to leave Davidson County. But as soon as he was released, he did not report to that GPS monitoring company and he has not been heard from. I wanted to make sure Lauren is safe. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine leaving it up to a criminal to report to a GPS tracking to have the device put? How horrific is that? That's outrageous. Oh yes, let's let the criminal decide if he goes and has this ankle monitor. The other thing about ankle monitors that you may not be aware of, they are not tracked in real time. So a danger like this guy could kill someone with the ankle monitor on. No one's tracking him. This is a joke. This is bail reform at its worst. And this woman, this beautiful girl, should still be alive today. This nursing student, Lauren Johansson, should still be alive. And who's responsible for this? I'm really pissed off at this. I am outraged. And this isn't just in Mississippi, this is happening with Tennessee. This is happening all over the damn country where these woke judges are granting, they think they're doing the right thing because after all, bail is supposed to just secure you to make sure that you show up at your next court appearance. But what if you're a danger to the community? Is there considerations for that? In some jurisdictions, no. We're gonna discuss this tonight. I am really outraged at this case. And I think you should be too. So folks, hold onto your hats, hold onto your wigs, hold onto your loved ones, hold onto your service dog, hold onto your family members. You're about to enter true crime from a police perspective. You're about to enter the off the cuff zone, the police off the cuff zone. [MUSIC] That's using common sense. Yes sir, the other cars don't intend to crash by driving. We still don't know before the trigger. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] As you can see folks, I'm all worked up. So what better person to have joined me in this show that has a way of calming me down a little bit, but very even keeled, almost fatherly like, I mean, priestly like professor, Michael Gary retired NYPD Sergeant, law degree, and let's welcome him to the show. Mike, welcome to the show. Billy, good evening, good to see you, welcome everyone. You know, Mike, this is so outrageous that this has even happened, has even occurred. I mean, there's so many things went wrong here. How could you grant bail? And initially it was $250,000. It was lowered to $150,000. And I think, don't you only have to pay 10% or put down 10% of a bail? So it's $150,000, he's putting down $15,000. Right, right. It's always been traditional, it's been 10%. The bail bond's been put down, put down the rest. It's secured by a mortgage on a house, a title transfer from a car, you know, things like that cash, whatever it happens to be. But this is an outrage, it's in competency, it's political ideology, it's all of the bad things that keep happening over and over again. And the public has to ask, why? Why don't we understand how criminals act? That crime is not complicated, not whatsoever. And this is so beautiful. You've seen this, Phil's seen this, I've seen this, every police officer in the United States has seen this kind of thing. And you know how this story's gonna end if he gets out. Everybody knows it, no one can be surprised by this. It's a terrible tragedy, terrible. - Mike, he beat her five times previously. It's so hard to understand that we needed to protect this girl. The criminal justice system as a whole, needed to protect her life. Because this guy is a dirt bag. He did seven months in jail. Here's his face on the screen, right? He's only 23 years old. And he's been arrested four times. Now, the one thing I wanted to ask you about, and I'm not sure it's the same in every jurisdiction, are judges allowed to consider danger to the community? Are they allowed to consider that? - Sure, they are. They're allowed to consider roots in the community, because that's what everybody always says, as a defendant when you want to have the bail lowered. They look, I have roots in the community. I've lived here for 15 years, I've lived here my whole life. I'm not gonna flee, you know, that sort of thing. So that's, you worry about that when it comes to playing. But also, what is the present danger to the victim or to the victim's families or to other people that they may come in contact with? You can, as a judge, do that, except perhaps if, you know, state law has changed in the last couple of years, because we know in New York, for anybody who's not in the chat, who's not from New York, New York is as a horror show when it comes to, quote unquote, bail reform. It's not reforming to make it better. It's reforming it to make it more easy for criminals. Hardened criminals to get out and to be released on their own recognizance, that it is insanity. And yeah, that is one of the, so any state that has recently enacted bail reform probably has kind of wiped that part away and made it difficult for judges to keep people in jail awaiting trial and wanting them to actually release known hardened criminals as fast as possible, because God forbid, somebody spends the night in jail. It's really sad. - Mike, someone in the chat, first of all, he was already convicted of a crime. - Previously, yeah, number of-- - Yeah, and he did seven months and he was being released. I mean, that's outrageous. I mean, usually in domestic violence incident situations, they automatically issue an order of protection. Big deal, that piece of paper does not protect you. - Not for the proof, right? - The father who happens to be, he happens to be a surgeon. His name is Lance Johansson. He's an orthopedic surgeon. He was doing everything he could to keep this guy in. And it was calling on deaf ears. He said, "He's going to kill my daughter." And that call they made to him and said, "Oh, we just want you to know that Bryce, excuse me, Bryson Rivers has been released. So make sure your daughter's okay." He's freaking out. He doesn't even know where his daughter is. And at the time, it turns out she's with this guy. - Right, right. Now, remember, that came right around the fourth, there's a lie holiday right before. He didn't get a timely notification from the DA's office. Like, "Oh, we released him 10 minutes ago, and we're in Tennessee." No, he got that days later. It doesn't make any common sense whatsoever. It's a failure. It's a total cluster freak. It's Fubar. And that's our criminal justice system in America, in many places in America today. He knew as a dad what was going to happen to his daughter or to any other woman who this guy wanted to do something to. He knew it, the bailiff knew it, the district attorney knew it, the prosecutor knew it, the judge, God knows what she was thinking. She should have known it. This isn't something that you haven't, oh my God, I haven't heard of this before. What could possibly go wrong? This is something that happens day in, day out, thousands of times. We've seen it hundreds of times in our career. You, me, and Phil, it's grotesque. - Spinner from the chat. I know if I was innocent, I would want bail. Spinner, you're right. But let me give you the facts and circumstances. He was released from jail. He did seven months for kidnapping her and beating her up, right? Now, he gets arrested again around, was it July 4th? And he's the police pull up as he's in progress of beating her. And he tries to, he has a loaded gun in the car. That is the, that is the incident that he was bailed for. He already just, I just cannot do think Spinner, that he's a danger to the community based on that fact pattern. I say yes, yeah, he's a danger to the community. And if you cannot see that judge, you don't belong sitting on the damn bench in those black robes. - Billy, the criminal justice system is supposed to protect. But to protect citizens, that's what the criminal procedure law is for. That's what the criminal code is for. That's why we have our due process to give certain rights to the defendant who's being charged with a serious crime. But on top of that, you have to understand that there's the balancing act because there is the interest of society and interest of the victims in these cases. And the wholesale abandonment of any meaningful protection got this girl killed. Really, inexcusable. - You know, Spinner, I'm gonna answer your question again. The question is yes, he should not have been given bail, period, because he was a danger to the community. He was a serial beater. - Yes, so he was out after doing seven months in jail, right? And then I don't know how he was in jail and not prison. It doesn't indicate that he was paroled, he was led out of jail. So now he has that charge. And while he's out, he beats her and the police discover a loaded gun in the car. For that crime, that recent crime, he's bailed. - It just does not make any sense 'cause he is obviously a danger to the community. Let me play this from news nation. - Mississippi murder victim says a failure in our criminal justice system led to her brutal killing. Lauren Johansson was found mutilated, wrapped in a sheet at a Mississippi cemetery. Authorities believe her ex-boyfriend was behind her death. Bryson River let out a binashville area jail just days before Johansson's murder. He was behind bars for seven months after he was accused of kidnapping and beating Johansson in December when they went to the music city on vacation. Now Johansson's family says that they knew she was in danger. Her father even appearing at one of River's hearings pleading with the judge saying quote, "If you let him out, he will kill her." And now the 23 year old has been re-arrested. He is facing a murder charge with a $1 million bond. This family saying too little, too late. Here now news nation law and justice contributor and former FBI special agent, Jennifer Cauffandofer. Jennifer, thanks for joining us on this case. - Thanks for having me. - Lauren's family coming out publicly now saying that the justice system in Nashville is to blame here and we have this detail of her father saying so plainly to the judge that if Rivers is released, his daughter will die. Where do you think the fault lies here? - The fault lies with the judge. Look, this bond should not have been lowered. He was in on another domestic violence type situation that was extreme. It was an extreme assault. And why would this bond ever be lowered for him to possibly get out under these circumstances? - And Rivers reportedly ignored a requirement to stay in Tennessee and a requirement to get an ankle monitor, yet he still made it across state lines to allegedly commit this crime. Did authorities drop the ball here as well? - Authorities did, Natasha. This is one of these very clear cases where the ball was dropped, the bond was reduced, then the ankle monitor wasn't put in place and he left. I mean, unfortunately, we're seeing this across the country in these types of domestic violence cases where individuals are being let out only to hurt and harm their victims. - Jennifer, do you have a message to that family tonight? I mean, just in an incredible amount of pain, feeling like they saw this coming and they tried to stop it. - I do have a message. My message would be, first of all, I am so sorry, so very sorry for your loss, but secondarily, I would say that I hope that they really push for change and do everything they can to take this platform that they now have and try to push for judges to not allow these sorts of bond reductions. Hopefully they can have a new law in place that would maybe be called her law where this wouldn't be allowed in the future in a discussion. - And Jennifer, if other women or men find themselves in a toxic relationship, if they're being stalked, if threats have been made towards them, everyone says to get a restraining order. In so many cases, that is not enough. I know we have spoken about cases where it actually provokes the individual as well. Is there any thing someone can do to protect themselves truly if they feel their lives are in danger? - Well, restraining orders are important, so that way, if they're found lurking around your house, that they could be put into custody with that restraining order, but beyond that, changing everything. It's so sad that these victims have to do this, but they're emails, where they live, they need to live around somebody, they need to have ring cameras, they need to have alarms, they need to be on the lookout. Unfortunately, that's the way this situation is when you have somebody that domestically, violently wants to attack and even kill you. - Yeah, and as you mentioned, this suspect was already in jail for aggressive behavior towards this specific victim. I know you say the judge should not have lowered this bond, he should not have been let out. Do you have any indication as to the rationale behind that, why he was let out at all? - You know, I did a lot of research and I couldn't find the rationale. There is no good rationale for lowering such a bond in my opinion. - Yeah, and his family in so much emotional pain tonight, I we appreciate you coming on and speaking. - You know, Mike, one of the things that I'm having a problem with here, first of all, he's did seven months in jail. Why is he in jail if it was a kidnapping assault? The kidnapping is one of the highest felonies you could possibly have. - Sure. - So how did he get out of jail? And why was he in jail and not prison? I'm not understanding that. - Yeah, so let's pretend that there was a mistake made there, right? So now he's let out and he's going about his life. And he attacks her and apparently he probably stalked her 'cause according to her father, she wanted nothing to do with him. But that wasn't her choice, it was his as he stalked her. And now he's caught actually by the cops live on the scene 'cause they tracked the idiot cell phone, right? Or they tracked her Lone Star. Not the Lone Star. - He's P.S, I think, of the car. - They tracked her car on store. They tracked her on store, went right to the car. And he's in progress of giving her a beating in the car. And then when they confronted me, he has a loaded gun in the car. And that is the crime. After having been released from jail after having been doing seven months, that's the crime that he was bailed for. I think that's outrageous. This judge needs to be removed from the bench. - Bill, they talk about, you know, as part of criminal justice reform a couple of years ago, getting rid of, you know, immunity, I'm sorry, immunity, qualified immunity from police officers, not total immunity, just qualified immunity, just getting rid of some qualified immunity from police officers. And that was a political touch storm. You know, real, real crazy people were running around in the streets and politicians were crying, the crying that the police would have greater accountability to the community if we took away any sort of civil and criminal protections they might enjoy. However, guess what? The prosecutors have complete immunity. Judges have complete immunity. If this family out, Johansson family wants to get some sort of civil justice in a monetary, say, some sort of penalty, they'll sue the state, they'll sue the county. You know, that judge is not gonna suffer any sort of civil liability whatsoever. They don't care. Judges are immune, prosecutors are immune. They don't have the same level of liabilities, police officers. Everybody's worrying about the cops, what the cops are doing. What are the district attorneys doing? Why do they have such blanket immunity? What are the judges doing? Why do they have such blanket immunity? Because they're doing it because it serves their purpose. There's no accountability. As Jennifer, Kauffindaver said, there was nothing that appears on the record to indicate why the judge willingly cut his, you know, his bond in half. After he has had a demonstrable, you know, rap sheet, which indicates that he will beat this woman again. And she's a lady, Cheryl Blackburn. What is she thinking? You know, it's incredible, the level of incompetency and, you know, you gotta shake your head because the public doesn't even know about this. This is the father talking about the system failing his daughter. In Nashville, I told the judge they let him out. He was going to come kill her. This was probably the fifth time or sixth time in that time period where they get in a fight and eat, beat her and everything else. And they let her out and they didn't tell us and they didn't put the ankle monitor on her. They just let him walk out of jail. Rivers walked out of jail Friday. The following Monday, Lance received this voicemail. This is Bailey calling from the district attorney's office here in Nashville. Rice Rivers was released from custody. He was supposed to report straight to a GPS company and the Sonoma GPS monitor. And he was not, at least, Davidson County. But as soon as he was released, he did not report to that GPS monitoring company. And he has not been heard from, so I wanna make sure that Lauren is safe. After listening to that message, Lance said he called his daughter to warn her that her alleged abuser was no longer behind bars. - Well, I called her, I didn't get a call, so I fixed her and I got a text back. It didn't really look like her the way she talks. - Early Tuesday morning, Lance received a notification that Lauren's live 360 tracker was turned off. And then his other daughter, who was living with Lauren, said she wasn't there. And the security camera on their front door was destroyed. That's when Hattiesburg police were called to report Lauren missing. But Lance said that police waited until Wednesday to check the location of Lauren's car using on-star. And when detectives called Lance to tell him, - I knew she was dead when we got there. Her car was out like in the middle of the cemetery. She was in the back of the car, wrapped up in a bunch of sheets and trash bags. And she was basically beating the death. Her face was smashed in, her head was smashed in. She was just brutally beaten. To the point she couldn't see how to either eye when she finally died. I helped a corner lift her body out of the car. It was just mutilated. - Lance said he can't believe Rivers was let out of jail with a reduced bond and no monitoring system. - I think the criminal justice system in Nashville, Tennessee failed my daughter and our family. The world shouldn't work this way. She had dreams and hopes that we're larger than life. And the best quality of her daughter, which is that she had a really big heart and would do anything for anyone to help them out. Everything she did, everything she touched, turned the goal, except for this guy. - Unbelievable. Mike, when I see that, it just makes me crazy, you know? And Lance Johansson, the dad, you know, if situations are like this where the system, police are criminal like this, might people take the law into their own hands? And you know, if the law's not gonna protect people, that's when people are gonna protect themselves. And I'm sure that Mississippi and Tennessee, a big time second amendment states, a pro-second amendment, I'm saying. But I want everyone also to know that a, the order of protection protects no one, all right? It's a piece of paper. B, those ankle monitors are an absolute joke. They, what system would allow the criminal the option of going to get fitted for his ankle monitor? That should be run, and if it's run by a private company, they should be at the facility, where the, when the person, before the person gets released, they should be attaching that ankle monitor to the perp, right there. Not say, oh, this is the address of the ankle monitor facility. You need to go, are you kidding me? That is the most unbelievable policy I have ever heard. There is no other business, no other arm of government that would do something like that, except the criminal justice system, 'cause they're laughing in our face. That's an absolute joke, Mike. - Bill, there's no liability. There's no accountability for the judges and the DAs, and any sort of strange, you know, political idea that they have, or ideological idea when it comes to crime injustice. Come on, you know, even a fourth grader knows that the best predictor of future behavior is past and present behavior, 'cause people generally don't change their stripes. He's a beater, he's a vicious person, he's not gonna change. Putting, how many people do, you know, we've heard many cases where people get ankle bracelets, and they cut them off anyway. This guy doesn't care. He wanted her dead, and he got her dead, and now he's gonna spend the rest of his life, hopefully in prison, if there's no further screw-ups. But in a weird way, I don't think he even cares, because he accomplished what he set out to do, as to kill this lovely girl, who had the whole, her whole life ahead of her, and who dared, you know, try to, you know, bring charges against this guy. And there's the judge, and the DEA, and the whole system failed her. There's just no accountability whatsoever. So the incompetency level is sky high, and the whole idea of bail reform, it's ideology over common sense. Nobody cares about the victims, and the more people feel that the system, the policing system, and the court system does not support them, the more they'll go to defend themselves. So, and that said, you can't really rely, unfortunately, on the police, and the district attorneys, and the judges, and even the lawmakers, to protect you. You have to protect yourself. And getting a, you know, getting a word protection is a good start, like Jennifer Kappendaffer said, but, you know, it's only a piece of paper, it's not bulletproof, and you get guys like this, with a demonstrable record of domestic violence, that's what he does, he beats women, that's what he does. - Yeah, absolutely. Jacqueline Johnston manifested, why do they use ankle monitors then? It's a political tool, that's what it is. You know, Jacqueline, I had a case when I was on the job, a guy with an ankle monitor went outside, about, you know, a couple hundred yards from his house, and shot three people, and then went back inside, 'cause he knew he had his ankle monitor on. It was easy to find them, you know? But the point is, it prevents nothing. And, you know, the other thing is that we as citizens, we believe that, oh, someone's watching this on a computer screen in real time. No, no, no one's watching it. You know, when they check it, when the guy comes back in, and they take the ankle monitor off, and if he violated, it's like a violation of parole, you know? And believe me, nothing happens to them. It's an absolute joke. And we being sold this bill of goods by our elected officials, and it's just, look, this day, last, let me get on my soapbox, this July 4th weekend, 49 people were shot in Chicago, 11 dead, 49 people, and the mayor of Chicago got rid of shot spotter, and I don't know if you guys know what that is, but he didn't work in his city. He was catching too many people, you know? It's a computer system, a system of microphones and GPS, and they can track exactly where the shots were fired from two within a few feet. The mayor of Chicago, this buffoon, this absolute jackass who last week, well, July 4th weekend, had 49 of his citizens shot, 11 dead, and he's taken away. This is an example of the elected officials we have in this country that, again, as Mike said, they're not protecting the citizenry from crime, they're just, you know, it's ideology, and it's a wrong ideology. Folks, this is police off the cuff for real crime stories. If you like real crime, true crime from a police perspective, then you're in the right place. And if you're not subscribed, go on our YouTube, hit that subscribe button, give us a thumbs up, ring that bell. And if you want to contribute to us financially, we have a Patreon with four different levels, and we also have a YouTube channel membership with five different levels and on. Channel members are growing, growing and growing, and we, that's all because of you guys, and we appreciate that. So, Mike, let me play another, it gets worse and worse, but let me play this other news reporter, local news report, again, about the father blaming the criminal justice system about what went down with his daughter. - Father said there is a huge flaw in Nashville's criminal justice system. Thank you for joining us here at 630. I'm Tracey Cornette. - And I'm Marius Payton, Lauren Johansson is now dead after her boyfriend was led out of the Davidson County Jail without her family knowing, and he crossed state lines. He's now accused of killing Johansson, which is what her family wanted to prevent in the first place. - Our Marisa Sulex spoke with Johansson's dad today about how this was failure after failure. - Lauren was one of the kindest, cleatest, young woman that you could ever meet. - Although he's too emotional to go on camera, Lance Johansson will tell you his daughter, 22-year-old Lauren Johansson, was the most beautiful and caring person he knew. She was dating Bryson Rivers, the star football player from high school. He became a man her dad didn't want Lauren to be around. We thought he was out of our lives forever. - Rivers was in a Davidson County Jail just last week. He was accused of kidnapping and beating Lauren back in December when they came to Nashville on vacation. - So the judge and the DA and all the members in the court system that if you release him, he's gonna kill her. - This week Lauren's body was found wrapped in a sheet inside a car at this Mississippi cemetery. Rivers is now charged with her death, but Lance Johansson says they weren't aware he was even out of jail until it was too late. - No one called us and ever told us they were having a new hearing to reduce the bond. - Really, so you were never aware of that. - We had no idea. - The Davidson County District Attorney's Office says Rivers' bond was reduced from 251,000 to $150,000. He was led out of jail on June 24th. Four days later, Lance says the Davidson County District Attorney's Office left him a voicemail he didn't see until July 1st. - This is thing, I recall I'm from the District Attorney's office here in Nashville. Goodnight, Rivers was released from custody. He was supposed to report a straight to a GPS company and be put on a GPS model. - I love that, Mike. He was supposed to report to a GPS company. Are you kidding me? - That makes sense, thank you. - If that's the court's procedure, the district attorney's procedure, that procedure needs to be changed. That is a horrific horrendous procedure. Yeah, let's leave it up to the perp to see whether he responds to the GPS tracking facility to be fitted with an ankle monitor, just outrageous. - Monitor, I mean, it was not really Davidson County, but as soon as he was released, he did not report to that GPS monitoring company, and he has not been heard from, so I want to make sure that Lauren is safe. - The voicemail says as if the man's on the way to kill your daughter is basically what that means. - Yeah, enough time to go to another country and commit this murder. - Michael Collins is a criminal justice educator in Shelby County. He says, in domestic situations, an ankle monitor is essential. - This person should have been monitored prior to him being released from that locker facility, and there's no excuse for why he couldn't have been. - Had someone made sure Rivers had a tracker on him, Lance believes Lauren would still be here. Do you believe this would have happened if he actually had an ankle monitor on? - Well, if he had an ankle monitor on and things were done properly, I think that there's almost no way possible this could have happened. - In that. - So just, you know, incredible comedy, not even a comedy, but I shouldn't use that word, but so many errors. God bless us everyone, thank you for the 199 super sticker. Thank you guys for all your support. This is, you know, again, Michael, I dwell upon our elected officials, and because they ultimately are the ones that make the laws, they're legislators. That's what they're called, they make the laws that police and prosecutors are hampered by. And, you know, an order of protection, as you know, Mike, is a court order issued by a judge, and it prohibits certain things. This one, of course, should have prohibited that he even went anywhere near her. Never mind, you know, was stalking her, couldn't call her on the phone, couldn't text her on the phone. All those things would be a violation of this. And then because he just got a jail, as her father, Lance Johansson, said, he should have been fitted right then with an ankle monitor, and he wasn't, Mike. - Billy, you know, this isn't like, we've talked, you mean, Billy, we've talked about this many times. This basic criminal justice enforcement is not, we're not, Enrico Fermi, splitting the atom, you know, at the University of Chicago. You know, this is an E equals MC squared. This is so basic, so elementary. Everybody knew what this person would do. You could bet your paycheck the moment he got released, he was not gonna get his GPS, because, oh, it's the honor system. Of course, he's gonna get his GPS. Where's he gonna go? Is he gonna leave the county? Oh, wow, yeah, he's gonna leave the county. Where's he going? He's going right back where he came from. He's gonna right back to that girl, and he's gonna beat her, 'cause that's what he's done many times before. It's just, it's nothing but sad political ideology. It's a strange view of the criminal justice system, whereby people are more concerned with the rights of a person with a demonstrated history of violence towards women. It's this idea that, oh, well, this case, it may be different from his previous cases. Maybe he's not guilty. We haven't actually done, you know, maybe he has reformed himself. Maybe we could trust him. He just wonder where these people came from? What life did they lead before they got into their positions of power? It's scary, and it is arbitrary. Some of these decisions that are made. There's no record of why this Cheryl Blackburn did this as a woman to see this wife, this girlfriend beat her in front of her in court with her, his attorney, why there would ever be a real serious consideration of reducing his bond. You know, she'll never be taking a task for this. She'll never answer for this whatsoever. You can bet your bottom dollar, but this, unfortunately, is not going to be the last, Ms. Johansson is not gonna be the last person to die like this. No way, this is gonna continue and continue and continue. There'll be thousands more just like her, and thousands more judges doing the same ridiculous thing and it's gonna end up in tragedy. And this is a real, it's a real black eye for the criminal justice system that's supposed to protect and serve. If the cops are doing their job, they're locking the guy up. Can everybody else do their job? I don't know. - Absolutely. Jordan Davies from the chat, hey, Bill or Mike, do you think a lawsuit can come of this mess up? They definitely shouldn't have let this family know that he was given a low bond amount. He was able to bond out long before his police. Jordan Davies, I think there absolutely should be a lawsuit, but many times district attorneys, judges, and the system is immune from lawsuits. So I don't know what good it would do. The way you can tell whether there'll be a lawsuit is not to see how many attorneys will take this case. If they won't take it, you know that there's no chance of winning it. So that is one of the horrors about the criminal justice system and the folks that are making these laws right now. Look, both Mike and I retired NYPD. I would not want to be on that job right now. Every step of the way the New York City Council throws a higher hurdle in front of the police department in order for them to do their job. And bail reform was one of them. The diaphragm law was another one, whereas New York City police officers, one of the ways we were trained to handcuff a suspect on the ground was to put on knee in his back and grab his hands, get him behind the back and get him handcuffed. And then once he's handcuffed, you get your knee off his back. They're prohibited from doing that right now. So it gives the advantage to a criminal who obviously does not want to go to jail, does not want to be handcuffed. And if the office is not allowed to use his body weight to put on the criminal, then he could really get hurt or killed because as I said, the criminal has the advantage. So many other examples getting rid of qualified immunity, stop question and frisk, severely hampered, taking away gang databases, they're not allowed to keep it. Like some of the things they've taken away are just, what are they trying to do? Why are they taking the side of criminals? And it's just baffling. And the only thing I can think of, it's ideology, Mike. - Billy, they can't stand the optics. They cannot stand the optics. They don't want to be, especially if there's a minority gang of black or Hispanic or something like that. They don't want to see that. How many cases do you get of, you see on YouTube, news articles, and they won't even describe the, you know, the gender and the racial, the race of the perpetrator. And they tell you, oh, if anybody has information on this shooting, you know, speak to the police. And they won't even tell you who did the shooting or who's the suspect or even describe them. It's, they take logic, they take common sense, and they twist it into a pretzel till it's unrecognizable. But to them, it makes sense because maybe perhaps these judges, these DAs, these politicians, they have armed escorts and they don't have to worry. They don't have to live in those neighborhoods. And, but you, me and everybody else who has to live in these neighborhoods, take those subways, take those buses, walk down those streets, you know, were the ones that are being preyed upon, not those people who live in different areas. But it's a strange, bizarre ideology. And it's hard to fathom. And, but who's going to pay the price? Not them, you and me, we're going to pay the price. People like Ms. Johansson. - 100%. I want to play some of this from law and crime. - The man with a criminal history was locked up in Tennessee for kidnapping and beating his girlfriend. Now police say when he got out, he killed her. We're diving into this chilling case on the possible repercussions with criminal defense attorney, Daniel Jackson. Welcome to sidebar presented by law and crime. I'm Jesse Weber. We're going to tell you a story. And I want to go in chronological order because it's going to emphasize how heartbreaking this is. And the question becomes, could the killing that I'm about to describe could it have been prevented? So 23-year-old Bryson John Rivers was arrested in Nashville while on vacation with his girlfriend, Lauren Johansson. And this was after he was accused of holding her hostage and beating her while in a car, including reportedly assaulting her while parked in a parking lot. In fact, it was reported that Lauren had called her family telling them she thought Rivers was going to kill her. So the family calls police, officers were able to track them down. They were able to pinpoint Lauren's location, said that they could hear her banging on the car door as she tried to get away. Now, Rivers was allegedly seen reaching for a handgun in the back seat of the car, but officers were able to intercept him, arrest him, detain him. Lauren, she ended up in the hospital with severe injuries, but she went back home to Mississippi. Meanwhile, Rivers was charged with kidnapping and interference. Now, Lauren's father, Lance Johansson, who we're going to talk about a lot on the show, told WLX News that he warned the judge overseeing the case at the time. Criminal court judge Cheryl Blackburn that Rivers should not be let out of jail. Quote, "I sat in the courtroom in Nashville and told the judge that if they let him out, he was going to kill her. He had assaulted her. This was probably the fifth or sixth time where they would get into a fight and he would beat her. We would get her away from him for a while, but he would find a way to weasel back in." That, by the way, was December 2023. So what happens? Rivers spent seven months in jail. Before the judge decided to lower his $250,000 bond to $150,000. You wanna know what happened? He posted it and he was released. So, Rivers-- - So, Mike, what it seems like is that he was a waiting trial. - Right. - And somehow they decided he should be eligible to bail and not sit in jail while awaiting trial, even though the charges were kidnapping and a series of felony assault. So, they, these woke people must have felt guilty that this kidnapper and assaultor with a loaded gun was sitting in jail when he could be out enjoying himself. So what they did was they lowered his bond from $250 to $150, which he made. And that the rest is history, Mike. - Yeah, it did. And I wanna know, and I mean, and Judge Blackburn, she's a civil servant, okay? You know, people in Mississippi pay her, pay her, and North Carolina, I'm sorry, Tennessee, they pay her salary, okay? And for her to have this immunity is disgusting and to have no explanation, why? Where's the record of the bail reduction hearing, the bond reduction hearing? Where is it? It should be made public because this is the only way the public needs to know. We wanna have body cameras on police. We wanna have, you know, every police car has a, in the world now has cameras. Why aren't we seeing all the clarity and the forthrightness from the court system? This is bizarre and it's terrible because there's no accountability for why these decisions were made. Where is the reasoning behind doing this? Especially, this isn't the first time he was ever arrested. This is like the fifth time he was arrested. And you can't tell me, the judge can't, nobody can tell me the straight face. You know, he enjoys the presumption of innocence. Okay, that's a legal presumption. What about a common sense presumption? Especially when he was on trial for beating this woman, who he's beat numerous times in the past. Billy, we've seen this, every cop has seen this. Every social worker has seen this. Every court officer has seen this. Every DA has seen this. Every judge has seen this. We all know how this has got to end. And it's sad. And we don't deserve this as taxpayers. We don't deserve this. We deserve better. Incompetency runs the place. It's just rife with incompetency and no answerability whatsoever. No accountability whatsoever. I'd love to know what the reason was given. And by that judge for why she changed her mind, especially that it was not his first time it bat with this sort of charge against this particular lady. He's out of his mind. He's a danger to everyone, including that family, that girl and any other girl he may have been attracted to. He's a danger to women, complete danger to women. And she'd never been let out. Absolutely. First, was supposed to get fitted for a GPS monitor, but apparently that didn't happen. No, instead police say he left Tennessee, he headed for Mississippi. Lauren's family, by the way, was supposed to be notified if Rivers was released, but they say that didn't happen soon enough. Why? Because five days after Rivers was let go, Lauren's dead body was found in the back seat of her car in a cemetery. She had reportedly been wrapped in sheets and trash bags. Lance claimed his daughter was beaten to death. We're currently awaiting results of an autopsy at the time of this recording, but 22 years old. That's what we're talking about. I want to bring in criminal defense attorney, Danielle Jackson, to talk a little bit more about this. Danielle, thanks so much for coming on, coming here on sidebar. Unfortunately, my understanding is, these kinds of alleged or domestic violence situations that turn deadly, you've worked on a lot of these cases, right? Yes, a lot of-- Do you seek similarities between this and the ones you've covered? Yes, a lot of times Bill is set, especially if the allegations are as egregious as it sounds, like the car incident was. Very high Bill is usually set in those cases. And then, you know, if a client of mine, I work for indigent clients are unable to for a bill. We do request the bill to be lowered in those usually conditions, such as GPS monitoring, at least in the state of New York, where that is an option for people. So I've worked on a lot of these. We're going to get into that in a second, just from a broad picture point of view. Looking at this, the allegations, yes, they're allegations, right? He hasn't been proven guilty yet. But this young, 23, 22 years old, do you see those kinds of cases? Unfortunately, yes. I think that for me in the last 10 years, I've been saying a lot of domestic violence cases for young people under the age of 25. I will say not sometimes, you know, as escalated as this, but we do see quite a few cases. Hey, everybody, we'll get. So Mike, my thing is now, again, what I keep bringing up is danger to the community. No bail, no bail if you're a danger to the community. What is so hard to understand about that? Why isn't that one of the factors? You said one was ties to the community, all the, I've been in courts, I've listened to them saying, Your Honor, my client's family is here in the courtroom, you know, he has ties to the community. He's gainfully employed. There's another thing that-- - Right, right, that's a good one right there. - Eyes to the community. Number three, that should be also on that list is, wait a minute, Your Honor, and this should be raised by the district attorney. He is a danger to the community, this guy. And look, he was just allowed out after having served seven months in jail, and then he kills her. So how is the state responsible for this, or are they not responsible for this, Mike? - I mean, they are responsible, morally, ethically, they're responsible, legally, you know, none of these characters who make really screwed up decisions are gonna suffer any sort of criminal consequences. Suing the state, the state sets its immunity, and so you could sue the state, you could sue the county, you know, sue the judge in her official capacity. Maybe you're gonna get some money, depends upon how the state, you know, writes the law on its civil liability of its actors, like police officers, judges, prosecutors, and things like that. They may get some money, they may not. If they're gonna get some money, it's not gonna be much, it's not gonna be any time soon, it's not gonna bring back Mr. Johansson. The only thing that the Johansson's have at this point is the knowledge that perhaps now this knucklehead price is going to be in prison for the rest of his life. But given the demonstrated incompetency of the judge and the system in Tennessee, you know, that even that's not assured. And that's really sad because it's like these guys, it's open season on women. You know, for many of these ladies, that's the only thing they got, 'cause these guys are violent predatory criminals, and the only thing that these ladies got are the police, and the courts, and the district attorney's office, and they're failing them. And this isn't, you know, one in a million cases, this is a lot of cases. - Mike, what you remind me of Gabby Petito and Brian Laundrie, except they were traveling the country together. - Right, they're in summertime, right? - And he murdered her, as Fixie strangled her, you know? - Right. - To race from Australia, thank you for the 799 SuperSticker. Thank you, Bill and Mike, for all that you do, such a sad case, to race it is the saddest, you know? Especially when it could have been prevented by our elected officials, by our criminal justice system, it's pathetic, it's absolutely pathetic that these people are in power, that allow these procedures to go forth. And I can even see the defense attorney that's on law and crime with Jesse Webber, she agrees with bail before, that, you know? No one, that's a defense attorney is ever gonna mention danger to the community. - Well, we mention it, because it's a reality, a defense attorney just wants our client out, you know? And because they're indigent, you know? And, you know, we're supposed to now have tears rolling down our face that the guy's indigent's getting a free attorney and he gets locked up at least, you know, three times a year. And at the time the tax pay is time, he's being represented. Let me go back to law and crime with Jesse Webber. Track Lauren's car using OnStar to that cemetery and the police and Lance, who by the way, accompanied law enforcement, they find Lauren dead. Now, aside from the fact of a father finding his own daughter in that way, and we'll get into that in a second, I don't understand how that happened. I don't understand how you have somebody who's released and they have to actually turn up for GPS monitoring, they're not brought there. - Depends on the jurisdiction. Some jurisdictions have it where there's a sheriff's office that will meet the person at the local jail and then we'll transport them to the sheriff's office where they usually do the ankle monitoring setup system. There are other jurisdictions, however, where this person, after they've made bond, supposed to self check in at these sites. - He can't be the, well, what is it, a motel six? - Right, self check in for your ankle monitor. How ridiculous is that? Whoever made that procedure needs to be fired. Heather, whatever, thank you so much for the 199 Supersticker. Thank you for caring. We do care and you can hear it in our voices. You can hear it in our outrage. This is so outrageous that it's beyond what a competent government official should be doing. - The first one to allegedly have done this, right? I'm imagining people don't show up. - It does happen. I wouldn't say at least a New York has happened that often, but it does happen, which is why you see a lot of judges sometimes a little reluctant about doing it, unless you're unsure of them that there's some type of escort that's already prearranged or that it's gonna be this sheriff's officer or some other law enforcement officer personally taking them from the jail to the site. - And by the way, with the DA's office, we'll talk to them about them a little bit later, because they oppose the judge, ultimately not imposing a stricter bond amount. We'll talk about that in a second, but reaching out to the family too late. Now, again, it could be because they were notified too late about what happened, but it seems like there was a failure here. Would you agree with that? - I think there are multiple failures here. If we're gonna start with the court, I think that depending on how their system is set up, either a clerk or a victim's advocate or something, is usually supposed to be on top of it when someone is gonna be released to immediately notify the victim in their case that this person is now gonna be out in the streets and also to make sure that they understand what the limitations were. Again, he was supposed to have the GPS and not leave, I believe, Davidson County. And then after that, usually the DA's work in the case is also supposed to be making sure that they're reaching out and checking in and figuring it out. Also, it's unclear here, did the sheriff's office or whoever is the one the GPS monitoring notify the court, like who's supposed to do all these notifications? It seems like there are quite a few lost members. - And just taking a step back, 'cause-- - You know, that's not rocket science, all right? Before the perp gets released, you have a checklist of every single person that has to be notified. And if you don't notify him, guess what? He doesn't get released 'til they are notified. The other thing is you don't allow this guy to go to a Motel 6 and check his GPS device. He has a law enforcement personnel, along with if there's a vendor that sells these things, that runs these things, they do it at the criminal justice facility, not allowing a perp. How outrageous is that? The thought process behind that is baffling, Mike. - Billy, I'm glad the defense attorney was very, very candid and, you know, we can all disagree a lot with defense attorneys. I know I do all the time, but she was very candid and I appreciated it because she said, yeah, there's failures here, absolutely. And when these laws are written, like, you know, let's have bail reform, let's, what does that mean? What is the actual, you know, down on the street level, what are the ins and outs of that law? What does it actually say? People don't read the laws. The politicians know that. So they know that the people, the public is generally really ignorant of what these specific parts of law are. So people that, oh, we have bail reform, great. People who are innocent can get out out on bail so long as they have a, you know, ankle, ankle bracelet. Yeah, that's great. But what is that really entail? What is the procedure? What is the monitoring like? Nobody knows these things. They just assume, oh, yeah, it's so, and the politicians know that. They just put it on paper. They're not gonna be affected by this law. Everyone else is gonna be affected by this law. It's a stop to the public. So the public can say, oh, we feel good. Patch yourself on the back. We're reforming bail. Innocent people will not, will not, will not, no longer be held in jail awaiting trial because they're poor. That sounds wonderful. That's altruistic. That's wonderful. However, let's look at the harsh reality of the criminal justice system. People who were get arrested, they're not just picked off the street for no reason. They're picked off the street because they've been accused of a crime. The police are the detectives have established probable cause. You've got a victim. You've got identifiable criminal act. And they have an assigned attorney. It's a stop to the public and the public goes for it all the time. We see this in New York. You see this in Chicago. You mentioned it. It's really sad. Who gets hurt? The public. The poorest of the poor get hurt. 100%. We go back to Jesse Weber here. Not putting the full blame on the DA's office. Not particularly putting the blame on anybody. Trying to understand the situation. Stephen Hayslipp with the DA's office in Nashville told WLOX that its office had opposed this reduced bond amount that ultimately led to rivers getting released or making that bond. That, but it's ultimately up to the judge, right? And the judge in this case, Cheryl Blackburn. Again, how is that possible? How does it work if the DA's office is opposing it and you have the victim's family who's opposing it? Why would the judge be in a position to actually lower it? And again, we don't know a lot of the circumstances of this, but what the allegations were pretty horrendous about aggravated kidnapping and attacking her? - Yeah, but the bell laws are just supposed to be set to ensure that someone is not gonna be a flight risk. And so because you cannot afford a higher amount, that doesn't mean you should spend pre-trial or pre-sentence time incarcerated to make sure. - She's a Kool-Aid drinker. She's definitely, she's all for it. She's a defense attorney. Never mentions danger to the community, which should be the overall writing piece of legislation or judgment that if the person is a danger to the community, they do not get bailed, period, Mike. - Right, she would be the kind of person who would write that bell reform law and say, yeah, this is the goal. The goal is to make sure that every single person who's poor, 'cause we know they're innocent. We know they're innocent. So therefore they all must be allowed out. So therefore their class cannot, and their socioeconomic background cannot be used against them because if they were wealthier or they're middle class, they would have gotten out. But because they're poor, we got to even out the playing field so they can get out to say that without thinking about the domestic violence victims coming from a female defense attorney. Like, could you give it a little bit more thought? She's towing a party line. She's giving a political line of nonsense to people, feeding it to people. And that's really sad 'cause she knows the real deal. She knows who gets hurt. It's probably 90% of the domestic violence victims are women, just a few are men, but overwhelmingly it's women. And overwhelmingly these guys who keep going back after that same girl, it always escalates. It never de-escalates, it's always gonna go. And the sad thing too, looking at this case, they found her, they found poor Ms. Johansson in the back of her car wrapped in sheets in a cemetery. When the police happened and got to there, he was gonna bury her. That's what he was gonna do. This is really, really sick. And I really feel sorry for that attorney that she can't even balance, that defense attorney, she can't even balance the interests of the victims who are overwhelmingly female. I don't feel sorry for attorneys, please. I said don't feel sorry for attorneys. - It's terrible and it's shameful. What she did, it just gave the party line to people without any sort of real analysis. And that is beneath her, she knows better. - It's ideology, that's all it is. - Yes. - People are not just sitting in jail because they're poor. So what they do is they set a amount, you then try to get the amount together and then once there's been multiple times that somebody's tried to make that amount, they still can't make it. Then judges do go back. They're asking usually defense attorneys, well, how much can this person's family afford? And then that's when we usually see that after several months of someone not being able to afford bills, some judges are more likely than that. Okay, with luring. - So in other words, we might be angry right now, but there could be a number of factors that would have allowed the judge to make that determination. And hindsight's 2020 might be difficult to predict, although I will tell you, if you listen to the family's version, they warn this would happen and this is what allegedly happened. And it wasn't like he was picked up on burglarizing a home or even stealing from a store and then murder somebody, right? He was arrested for hacking her and then he allegedly, he's now brought up on murder charges because of this. And by the way, Lance, again, Lance Johansson, her father told local media, quote, "I think the criminal justice system "in Nashville, Tennessee failed my daughter "and our family, the world shouldn't work this way. "She was really beautiful, super, super smart. "She had dreams and hopes that were larger than life. "Everything she did, everything she touched turned to gold." Now, obviously law enforcement in the DA's office might have a different version of events, but I am curious at this point in time, do you think they've opened themselves up to litigation, to a lawsuit that could be filed by the family? - I think if you pull back all of the layers of this and try and figure out, like, one who was supposed to do all the notifications, what exactly was supposed to happen when he was released from the county jail and ensuring he made it to the GPS thing, if they get through the bottom of that and there seems like there were some pitfalls there, absolutely, I can see where civil lawsuit can come in. - And you talk about even like emotional distress claims, right? I mean, because Lance said that he helped Harry, his daughter's mutilated body out of that car, helped the coroner, can't even imagine what that's like, because again, this is somebody who warned that this was what he was worried was gonna happen. So I imagine again, that there could be something there. - Also, you have to think about what happened when I believe there in Tennessee, right? - Yeah. - Or Mississippi, excuse me. - Well, it was Mississippi where she was killed, but Tennessee was originally where the arrest happened. Back in the day for the kidnapper. The other part of this is the Mississippi side, right? He reports her missing, and then there's still a delay of them looking for it. And then you find out she has an on-star, why wasn't that immediately looked into? Once you see that the doors opened, security cameras bashed in. So now we have issues involved jurisdictions here that could have led to a different story. - That's what we're talking about, it shouldn't have happened. If you ask me, it shouldn't have happened. And here's the thing. - From the chat, if a stalking victim uses gun to protect themselves when the perp comes after them, do the court usually consider that justifiable. I mean, that's a little, the circumstances you're listening there, you have the right to protect yourself and not to be killed. Yeah, if someone's gonna go after you or try to kill you, you absolutely have the self-defense and you can use deadly physical force in a situation like this. Yes, he wasn't even supposed to be near her, you know? And, you know, it's amazing that he was released while he was awaiting trial, apparently, for kidnapping and a very serious assault. And that's what he was out on bond with. And then could Lauren have protected herself with a firearm? Yes, I believe so. And I, you know, I can't predict what the exact circumstances would be, but yes, that's what guns are for, you know? To protect you when the government refuses to protect you. And I know this'll get into a whole Pandora's box of Second Amendment stuff, and that's not my intention. But the government has shown that they don't want to protect you or they're giving the advantage to the criminal and not to the victim, Mike. The government is disinterested in protecting the public. We've seen this for years. We've seen it for many, many years. You mean, Phil, you know, when you get these ridiculous ideas about criminal justice reform, they've been floated around and some of them have been enacted, you know? They're disinterested, it's a job. It's a job, they get paid, they get benefits, they get retirement benefits because they're health benefits. They're not interested. Some of these people are not interested in making the city safe or the streets safe. They're not. It's just a job to them, they don't care. The government doesn't care. The government's made up of a whole bunch of disinterested people. Every once in a while, you run across somebody who really does take their jobs seriously and does care and is zealous about their job for protecting men, women and children on the street. Occasionally that happens, but for most of the time, you just get a bunch of uncaring people who are just working on government service for paycheck. And this is what we see here, that female judge, that defense attorney, nobody cares. Come on, the defense attorney who argue for the reduction in bail. You know, he knows what's gonna happen. Come on, everybody knew what was gonna happen. You think he was gonna stay in Tennessee and not go to Mississippi and stalk the girl he was trying to kill before. You don't think he's gonna finish the job? Everybody knew, nobody cared. Nobody cared. - Crazy. - Just said truth. - Britney T33F, I appreciate this conversation and your thoughts on the situation. I wish the judge would be held accountable. Poverty should have nothing to do with being allowed bail. Violence shouldn't qualify. Britney, that's what we're saying. I don't have a problem with them reviewing people's cases and not keeping them in jail or waiting trial because they can't afford it. But the overriding thing that should disqualify you from bail, whether you're rich or poor, is are you a danger to the community? And if you are, you should not be released. In my mind, period, rich, poor, middle class, if you are a danger to the community, you should stay in jail awaiting trial. If it's on a violent crime and he was arrested for a violent crime, we're not talking about certain other crimes, but white collar crime, grand loss. And I almost said burglary, I'm almost getting like, but to me, burglary is a violent crime. - It's a very violent crime. - But you would think that our woke politicians they list that as an unviolent crime. So yeah, so we're all getting brainwashed by this stuff because they're trying to push it down our throat and they don't care about the safety of the community. They absolutely don't, Mike. - There's no incentive to care because they know they're protected. So if they make a mistake, oops, I'm sorry. Oh, I feel bad about that. Oh yeah, oh well, next case, there's no accountability. It's sad and the public doesn't realize how little accountability there is in the criminal justice system above the police, you know, above the level of police because all those decisions are made behind closed doors. The public sees what the police do. You see the police body cam images. Everybody films the police. The police are filming everybody. So everybody knows how they make their decisions, but we don't see a lot of the other decisions that are made, those discretionary decisions that are made behind closed doors and no reasons given. And then somebody's out on the street. You know, we've had cop killers in New York City get out after, you know, they're supposed to get a life sentence, they get out after like 30 years. Things like, you know, and you're like, whoa, what's going on here? - Oh, Mike, that's why you can't trust the system when the system says life without parole. - Right, that doesn't mean that. That means if a politician changes his mind or goes on a grant's clemency, life without parole's meaningless. - That's right, that's right. - You know, we've seen in New York, cop killers released in the last few years at a great frequency. And when the family members of the cop who was killed still around, voiced their disproval, it sort of goes on deaf ears. Callie from the chat, New York has bailed from, but I'm pretty sure DV is one of the only crimes that don't allow, at least that's not true, Callie. They will release you, but they'll issue an order of protection. And, but again, as we discussed earlier, an order of protection doesn't protect you. It's a piece of paper. - So all it is. - That's all of this is a piece of paper. So, and New York, New York is one of the worst states for that, especially New York City, where you have these bureaucrats that really frankly hate the police. And they're from the communities that need the police the most. So they're really just hurting their own communities when they put all these excess rules holding back the police from doing their job. And it's just totally outrageous. But, you know, what can we say? We're beating a dead horse here almost, but it's true that when we say a disqualifier across the board should be danger to the community. Absolutely. - The evidence against him. Let's talk about the evidence against rivers. We talked about it a little bit, but apparently, also rivers was actually seen running away from the scene into a wooded area. There was a manhunt all night Wednesday, reportedly drones, dozens of officers, air support dogs, reporting indicates that law enforcement new rivers had his phone on him. So what they did is they started texting him to make it look like he was talking with a friend. And that's how they were able to lure him out of the woods. And there's this footage from a police helicopter, apparently showing rivers running out of the woods and straight into the Harrison County Sheriff's deputy, multiple officers take him down. He was arrested. He's booked for Lauren's murder. This time he's on a $1 million bond in Harrison County, Mississippi. I can't know what a defense would be at this point. I don't think you, I mean, you tell me what a defense would be like. - It's gonna be extremely hard. - Right now, just in my head, I can't come up with one, especially what they saw when they got to the scene. I'm assuming at some point someone may be asking for some type of psych evaluation just to check that out and see if that's a clearance there. But I'm also still surprised about the money bill on the murder chart. - You think there should be no bail? - In New York, I have clients who come in on murder has re-manned. There is no amount of money. - Really, she's in New York. You can get released just about anything. So maybe not murder, but just about any other crime, they're releasing it. And New York is one of the worst cities, one of the worst states where this whole nonsense was invented. - Honey, that's kind of get someone out. So that's, I'm also curious to know how that system works. - So, I mean, I wish it didn't take a case like this for people to start asking questions about it and talking about questions, Lance says, again, Warren's father, that Rivers' behavior in Nashville and the other arrests on his criminal records should have been enough to keep him locked up 'cause this is a part we didn't talk about yet. So in 2021, we did some digging on his prior arrests for Bryson Rivers. And in 2021, he was apparently arrested in Hancock County, Mississippi. 2022, he was arrested for drug possession and in his mugshot, his face is seemingly scratched up, but he still smiles. And then in 2023, Rivers' mugshot shows him with blood on his face after, again, he purportedly assaulted Warren, held her captive. And in 2024, now we have his fourth mugshot as he faces Charger for murders. We see this escalation in cases like this, these domestic violence cases, right? So talk to us about that, how you kind of see that building over time of these perpetrators or alleged perpetrators. - This is usually something small. Sometimes we also see they have a juvenile record for like criminal mischief in the home. You usually see they have some issues with their parents, usually starting out and then progressively gets worse. So there are sometimes where you see minor simple assaults that then escalate to assaults with weapons and then unfortunately, really, really bad ones, you see it all the way up to murder charges. - Going back to the question, of course, is, if he has this record, why was his bond reduced? Why was he even issued bond in the first place given, again, a kidnapping charge back in December? Why would it be that someone that has this should be let out? And by the way, again, I don't know the particulars of the jurisdiction, but allowed to self-report for GPS monitoring. Again, it strikes me as very frustrating. - So depending on what the bill laws are of that state, the judge has a discretion to consider different factors as to why they would lower a bill or not. So I think it will go into what the ultimate conviction was for the underlying allegations of those prior convictions. And then sometimes they are offenses where people, like the law does not allow you to consider that type of conviction for a bill. So I think it is really gonna be about the weeds of their bill structure. - It's such a horrible situation. And again, it's, I hope, I wish it didn't take a case like this for people to start asking questions and maybe there'd be a change in the loss of something like this doesn't happen ever again. - Well, you know, something we know that unless legislators change these laws, this is going to happen again, you know, because they really are ideologues that that's what's important to them. They're ideology, not protecting the public, not protecting John Q. Citizen and Jane Q. Citizen who pays taxes, goes about their life and is unprotected by the police because you've taken away all the tools the police needed to do their job. This is one of the most egregious cases I have seen in a very long time. And it's just, it's unthinkable. And you just can't, to think this young beautiful girl, nursing student had so much to offer the world, Lauren Johansson murdered by her boyfriend who was released from jail. Just absolutely outrageous. Mike, your final thoughts. - Billy, there's final thoughts, thank you. There's no excuse for what happened. There's no extenuating circumstances for what happened. This was a total cluster freak, full bar incident with the judge and the defense attorney and district attorney. This, the people need to know that, you know, you have to rely only on yourself for protection. If you think, you know, having your cell phone and calling 911 is gonna protect you, no. Because you get people like this. We know from, you know, a hundred years of domestic violence, you know, statistics. We know from when we've seen since I've been on the job and you've been on the job since the '80s where these things lead to, if not corrected. And this person is a continuous, you know, threat to the victim. They almost never stop. They just, they're just out there to, they've got it in their mind. They wanna beat this person. They wanna dominate this person. They wanna abuse this person. And they're not gonna stop and to be, have a criminal justice system that is so uncaring, not uninterested in public safety. It's a disservice to everyone. And this poor girl, Ms. Johansson, paid the ultimate price, but there's gonna be a lot more Ms. Johansson's in the future. You can guarantee that. - 100%, this case, as you could see, and my demeanor and my voice and how I presented it, it infuriates me because there's other areas of the criminal justice system that have been impacted by laws that really hamper law enforcement. Let me put it that way. And for the criminal justice system to be effective, everyone has to be on board. And what I mean by everyone, the police, the district attorney, the courts, the judges, corrections, parole, probation, everyone has to be working together. And when they're not, that's when we get tragedies like this. And obviously, the communication here was bad. The fact that this guy was given a bond period is bad. The fact that he didn't have to have his ankle monitor placed on him by a criminal justice employee is bad. So I just can't, all the failures at so many different levels in this case. Anyway, folks, that's our show for tonight. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm Bill Cannon from Police Off The Cuff Real Crime Stories on behalf of myself and Professor Michael Geary. Have a great night and God bless. - Good night. (upbeat music) ♪ Just sending a note ♪ ♪ Yeah, laughter ♪ ♪ Everything you do ♪