John O'Keefe's brother Paul speaks out regarding Karen Reid Mistrial. #JohnO'Keefe #Mistrial #KarenReid A judge declared a mistrial Monday in the case of Karen Read, a Massachusetts woman accused of killing of her boyfriend, ending a contentious, months-long trial that drew intense attention and protest to the courthouse in Dedham, Massachusetts. After five days of deliberation, the jury could not reach a verdict on Read, 44, who was charged with second-degree murder in the death of 46-year-old Boston police officer John O'Keefe after his body was found outside the home of Brian Albert, a friend of the couple, on a snowy January night in 2022. She had faced a maximum sentence of life in prison. Norfolk County Judge Beverly Cannone scheduled a status update in the case for July 22. The jury told Cannone on Friday and again on Monday that they could not reach unanimous agreement. Cannone directed them to continue deliberating but to no avail. The wide-ranging trial included testimony from more than 65 witnesses, from forensic experts and police investigators to multiple members of Albert's family and Okeefe's, since it began at the end of April. Listening sites for POTC/Real Crime Stories https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/police-off-the-cuff-real-crime-stories/id1452116115 https://embed.podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/police-off-the-cuff-real-crime-stories/id1452116115?itsct=podcast_box_player&itscg=30200&ls=1&theme=auto 💯 Join our mission to uncover the truth in crime! Support Police Off the Cuff on Patreon for exclusive content and insider access. Click now and become a part of our detective squad: policeoffthecuff676.com www.patreon.com/policeoffthecuff 💬 Did you like this video? Let me know in the comments below! ✅ Subscribe to Police off the Cuff right now! Click here: https://www.policeofthecuff676.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@PoliceofftheCuff?sub_confirmation=1 Or become a YouTube Member to get access to perks here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKo80Xa1PYTc23XN_Yjp8pA/join --------------- Welcome to the Official YouTube Channel of Police off the Cuff This is where the veil of mystery on high-profile cases is lifted through the sharp insights of seasoned law enforcement professionals and where real crime meets real analysis. This is your destination for exploring the complexities of true crime stories, illuminated by the rich experience and street wisdom of those who have walked the thin blue line. At the helm is retired NYPD Sergeant Bill Cannon, a figure of authority in the crime investigation arena, with a diverse background that spans across acting, broadcasting, and academia. Bill's profound knowledge and keen analytical skills, combined with his empathetic approach, make each story not just heard but felt. Phil's extensive investigative experience, coupled with his genuine passion and characteristic Brooklyn charm, adds depth and relatability to the discussions. ➡️ Here we navigate the intricate web of the nation's most captivating crime stories, offering not just stories, but an education on the realities of criminal investigation. Their combined expertise provides a unique lens through which the stories are told, offering insights that only those with firsthand experience can provide. Join us on this journey into the heart of true crime, where every episode promises a deep dive into the minds of criminals and the tireless efforts of law enforcement to bring them to justice. --------------- 📲 Follow Police off the Cuff on social media: Instagram ▶️ https://www.instagram.com/policeoffthecuff Facebook ▶️ https://www.facebook.com/Policeoffthecuff-312794509230136/ Twitter ▶️ https://twitter.com/policeoffthecuf 🎧 Dive deep into true crime with Police Off the Cuff Podcast. Join retired NYPD expert Bill Cannon as he dissects infamous cases with insider insight: Become a Paid Subscriber: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/otcpod1/subscribe Check us out on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@PoliceofftheCuff, Police off the Cuff/Real Crime Stories. Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/otcpod1/support ☑️ Support Police Off the Cuff and help us bring you more captivating crime stories. Every contribution makes a difference! Choose your preferred way to donate: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/policeoffthecuff1gma Venmo @William-Cannon-27 https://www.buymeacoffee.com/policeoffty --------------- 📚 Disclaimer:
Police Off The Cuff/Real Crime Stories
John O'Keefe's brother Paul speaks out regarding Karen Reid mistrial.
ohn O'Keefe's brother Paul speaks out regarding Karen Reid Mistrial. #JohnO'Keefe #Mistrial #KarenReid A judge declared a mistrial Monday in the case of Karen Read, a Massachusetts woman accused of killing of her boyfriend, ending a contentious, months-long trial that drew intense attention and protest to the courthouse in Dedham, Massachusetts. After five days of deliberation, the jury could not reach a verdict on Read, 44, who was charged with second-degree murder in the death of 46-year-old Boston police officer John O'Keefe after his body was found outside the home of Brian Albert, a friend of the couple, on a snowy January night in 2022. She had faced a maximum sentence of life in prison. Norfolk County Judge Beverly Cannone scheduled a status update in the case for July 22. The jury told Cannone on Friday and again on Monday that they could not reach unanimous agreement. Cannone directed them to continue deliberating but to no avail. The wide-ranging trial included testimony from more than 65 witnesses, from forensic experts and police investigators to multiple members of Albert's family and Okeefe's, since it began at the end of April.
- Duration:
- 1h 4m
- Broadcast on:
- 04 Jul 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
(upbeat music) - Hello everyone and welcome to "Police Off the Cuff," Real Crime Stories, I'm your host, retired NYPD Sergeant Bill Cannon, a 27 year veteran of the NYPD. First and foremost, I wanna wish everyone a happy fourth of July. Hope you're spending time with your friends and your family and take in about 45 minutes to an hour or so away from your swimming pool or your backyard barbecue to watch the police off the cuff program. You know, this mistrial in regards to, there's the victim in this case, a Boston police officer, John O'Keefe. It was painful, I would imagine, for both sides. However, this case is going to be retried and this case had so much emotion on both sides of this case, the people that felt that Karen Reed was being framed, people outside the courtroom, everyday hundreds of people outside the courtroom. Social media took a huge interest in this case. Early on in this case, I covered it for a couple of episodes and the audience that followed this case was just so divisive and bombastic. And I decided not to cover it after two episodes. I took a certain perspective and there was obviously many of those who felt that it was the opposite of what I felt. Anyway, Judge Declan a mistrial Monday after jurors deadlocked in the case of Karen Reed, the Mansfield woman accused of killing her Boston police officer boyfriend by striking him with her SUV and leaving him in a snowstorm. A case that drew outsized attention thanks to true crime fanatics. Conspiracy theorists and Reed's pink-shirted supporters prosecuted set in a statement that they intended to retry the case. The judge scheduled a status conference for July 22nd. So in no way is this case over. The prosecution intends to take a second bite of this apple, if you will. First, we thank the O'Kee family for their commitment and dedication to this long process. They maintain sight of the true core of this case to find justice for John O'Keeffe, Norfolk district attorney said in the post on Facebook. Reed, a former adjunct professor at Bentley College, faced second degree murder and other charges in the death of officer John O'Keeffe, a 16 year member of the Boston Police Department who was found outside a Kenton home of another Boston police officer in January 2022. An autopsy found O'Keeffe died of hypothermia and blunt force trauma. Prosecutors said Reed and O'Keeffe had been drinking heavily before she dropped him off at a party at the home of Brian Albert, a fellow officer. They said she hit him with her SUV before driving away. The defense sought to portray Reed as the victim, saying O'Keeffe was actually had been killed inside Albert's home and then dragged outside and left for dead. They argued that investigators focused on Reed because she was a convenient outsider who has saved them from having to consider other suspects, including Albert and other law enforcement officers at the party. So as you could see, it was an extremely contentious trial. And as we said, it has resulted in a mistrial. And for many people wanted to know what was the first vote? What did the jury vote first? There were some rumors that they voted 10-2 to convict. Then there were some rumors that there was actually no votes to convict. And then what we do know is it was finally declared a mistrial 6/6. The vote was 6/6. And they were hopelessly, hopelessly deadlocked. So the judge rightfully so after I think the third time, she has to give them certain other lawful instructions. And she rightfully declared it a mistrial. Think of all of the emotion and all of the pain that's gone in on both sides of this case. And now, the fact that they will have to retry it. Quite disturbing. So folks, hold on to your hats. Hold on to your children. Hold on to your service dog, your hat, your toupee, your wig. You're about to enter true crime from a police perspective. You're about to enter the off the cuff zone. The police off the cuff zone. [MUSIC PLAYING] That's using common sense. Yes, sir, the other cars don't intend to crash by the driver. We still don't know before the trailer. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] You know, everyone, it seems, that has followed this case, has an opinion one way or the other, guilty, not guilty, framed. There was lots of problems with this case. The defense pointed to the corrupt lead investigator, John Prakta, who has since been relieved of his duties as an investigator, poor crime scene evidence collection. Many things that allowed the defense attorneys, in this case, to poke holes in this case and to create doubt. And once you create enough doubt, that's when it makes it almost impossible for a jury to vote guilty in a case like this, because let's realize that this case is a murder second degree. So potentially, Karen Reed, if convicted, could get light in prison for this case. So there is a lot on the table here, and there will be a lot on the table moving forward, because unless the prosecution feels that they cannot secure a guilty verdict in this case, could they potentially offer a plea? That is a distinct possibility, but it seems that the whole emotions run so high that I don't know if the O'Kee family would accept anything but this going to the jury. And I don't know if they would accept-- well, ultimately, it's up to the prosecutor. But would they allow for a plea bug? And Tom Keene in the chat, you just caught my eye for a second. She most likely could have pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter after this incident occurred. If she did that, she most likely would have been released, or close to being released from prison. Tom Keene, excellent point. However, that is no longer part of this reality. That is no longer an option. Simey Sharp from the chat. I just can't shake the science and physics, folks. I mean, shady cop science. I can't see how she could have done it, shrugs. Susie C-19, the dog bites and claw marks what keeps me from thinking she's not guilty. There's so many things. I'm not going to go through this whole case. I just want to really point out the emotion here. And from sour girl, she was fighting with him before and after the bar, he obviously didn't want to make a scene. There's so many independent variables here. And to really speak intelligently on this case, you have to know the entire case, each bit of evidence, each part of the timeline, each part of the crime scene process of the evidence. I don't. I will admit that. I didn't follow it closely enough, because as I said, I walked away from this case earlier on, because to me, it was so toxic. And I couldn't believe that it seemed that many people outside of this case were affecting the prosecution of this case. Anyway, this is how WCVB Channel 5 Boston came up with the report on the day of the decision. The canton to its core. So what's next? Replay did not guilty the second degree murder, manslaughter while operating under the influence and leaving the scene of personal injury and death. For defense claim, there was a cover up and argued that O'Keefe was beaten up, bitten by a dog, and dragged outside. Our team coverage on where this goes from here begins tonight with Emily Maha live outside the courthouse. With that breaking news about Trooper Proctor. Emily? Well, John Maria, Trooper Michael Proctor, took the stand during this trial, reading what he described as the regrettable and unprofessional text he sent about, Karen Reed, while working as the lead investigator on this case. Tonight, he's been relieved of duty just hours after a mistrial was declared. This is Trooper Michael Proctor on the stand during the trial, where he reads the crude and vulgar texts he sent during the murder investigation and admitted to drinking with a brother of a witness. Tonight, state police say he's being removed from the Norfolk County District Attorney State Police Detectives Unit, just hours after a mistrial was declared. Your service is complete. I'm declaring a mistrial in this case. The six women and six men tasked with deciding the fate of Karen Reed say they were deeply divided at an impossible impasse. Reed is accused of hitting her Boston police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe, with her SUV and leaving him in the snow to die. Our David Benick, covering the trial gavel to gavel, watching as jurors left the courthouse one last time. They filed out. Most of them, in fact, all of them had their heads down. Some with stern looks on their faces. At least a couple of them looked like they were angry and frustrated. Inside the courtroom, John O'Keefe's mother looked down, wiping her nose as Karen Reed hugged her father. Reed and her attorney speaking on the courthouse steps, condemning prosecutors. They failed. They failed miserably and they'll continue to fail. John O'Keefe's family and supporters walking down the same steps saying nothing. In a statement, the district attorney says they will retry the case and thank O'Keefe's family saying, quote, they maintained sight of the true core of this case to find justice for John O'Keefe. As for trooper Michael Proctor State Police say he is relieved of duty effective immediately. That means he is still technically employed by the department but cannot work cases or function as a trooper. It is a case that has-- It's so important for police detectives, especially, to maintain an air of professionalism and proctor by making those texts, whether it was on his phone or when he just destroyed all of his credibility as a witness. How can others trust you when you can write things about someone like that on your own phone? You must maintain professionalism at all times, and that includes in your day-to-day activity. Brooklyn Janet, thank you so much for the $9.99 superstar guy can't ignore experts that marks on arm with dog bites. ARCC was scientifically based. PhD engineers said, "Jaya was not killed by car." Video inverted on "Sallyport Mislead Science," "Trump's All." Brooklyn Janet, I agree with you, but I've seen expert witnesses say whatever the side that's paying them wants them to say, and that happens to be the truth. So I don't always take an expert witness that refutes what the other side is saying as gospel. And you're right, science should trump everything. And there was also other science that said-- and I don't want to get into fighting about this case. My main thing about today's show is I wanted to show Paul O'Keefe's interview, and the fact that the O'Keefe family now, the family of John O'Keefe, the Boston police officer who was killed in this case, they have to go through this all over again. Karen Reed has to go through this all over again. I don't think we see a plea bargain in sight here, but could the prosecution try this case again and get the same exact results? That is a distinct possibility. If they try this again with the same evidence, are they going to use Proctor again? If they use him to testify again, might they get the same results? Java time, he did more than text messages. He didn't go in the house and interviewed the witness together, the teleport video, and on, and on, and on. Java time, I said that he was unprofessional. That covers a lot of areas. My point in today's show is really not to retry this case or re-go over all the case. And you're right. Proctor was totally unprofessional. And he may be in a large way because of this case becoming a mistrial. And again, getting back to the O'Keefe family, how do they feel about this? How do they feel towards the commonwealth? How do they feel towards this guy Proctor, who because of shoddy police work, was unable to give a professional performance and unable to get a conviction in this case? Brooklyn Janet, expert hired independently by FBI, not defense. Brooklyn, Janet, I understand all of that. I'm just saying whoever pays these people, usually that's the side they're going to use their expertise on. Believe it or not, it happens all the time. If you've ever watched, even in the Gilgo Beach case, Dr. Michael Baden, who gave an opinion in this case that went totally against the Suffolk County chief medical examiner. So, I understand all of this. And also, not to open up an underpandoor's box, but the FBI also is not without sin. But those without sins throw the first stone, right? So, I'm always suspect with this. A little meant, the experts were from the FBI and not paid prosecution and access to them also, but didn't use them. I was not the only one involved. Okay. So, unclear. I drive in heavy stone all the time. This was supposedly the storm of the century. The CW repressed this continuum. I can tell you, in this type of stone, you cannot drive 24 miles per hour in a straight line. Okay. Again, I'm not going to retry this case right now. My goal today was to put Polo keyphone and watch his interview by CBS News in Boston. I'm going to put this on the screen right now. My first question is obvious. How are you doing? How are you doing? I mean, we're doing all right. Hanging in there. It's been a long, painful two and a half years. And I mean, with the mistrial that happened the other day, obviously, it's was an ideal. But if we have to do it again, we'll do it again. So, we're ready to go. Did you prior to jury deliberations ever think that mistrial was even possible? I kept all -- everything was on the table, I guess. But obviously, hoping and confident that we were going to get the conviction that we were looking for. So, as far as the mistrial, yes, it's something we didn't want, obviously, but, you know, it's just a bump on the road. And, like I said, we'll do it again. We'll do it as many times as we have to. You'll be back in court every day for another long trial. Absolutely. How are your parents? They're doing all right. That's more of my concern, is that they have to go through the skin. I mean, I'll do it 10 more times with what I have to. But I hate the fact that they have to go through this all again. We don't know where it's going to happen, when it's going to happen. But, I mean, overall, they're doing okay. And they have John's kids now, too. Your sister's kids. Yeah. So, yeah, they're living in my brother's house in Canton. You know, raising my niece and nephew for 16 and 13. You know, I wanted them to come down here and live with us. But, yeah, my niece didn't want to leave Canton. Didn't want to leave her friends. Didn't want to leave her house. And kind of hard to force. The kid who's been through as much as they've been through to kind of shake up their world, you know, for, I guess, a third time. Yeah. I mean, can you just talk about Kaylee and Patrick? I mean, they, you know, for those that don't know this case, I think John O'Keefe's sister died of brain cancer. And he took her two children in and adopted them, changed his whole life, basically as a bachelor to raise his sister's kid. So, he seems like a pretty damn good guy to do something like that. And that has nothing to do with guilt or innocence in this case. But I think it's just an important thing. Lizzie Herzberger. Behind Blue Curtains, that's the name of her book. Lizzie Herzberger, thank you so much from 1999. Supersticker, folks, in the chat, if you don't have Lizzie's book, you can go on Amazon and pick up. Behind Blue Curtains, a great book in regards to her life in the Amish community. And that's, I'll leave it at that. You can read the trailer on Amazon to see what the book is about. But Lizzie, thank you so much. So, my whole point today was to try to see, you know, what this family is going to. And, you know, look, for both sides, whether you believe Karen Reid was guilty or whether you believe she was innocent and framed and all those other things, the reality of this case was it was six, six. So, there's a lot of smoke and a lot of mirrors here. And there's a lot of people that believe guilt. And there's a lot of people that believe she's innocent. But they were unable to come to a consensus on that. And thus, it became a mistrial. Baba said, please, people feelings are not evidence. We can't jail people randomly based on a feeling. There has to be scientific proof. And there's clearly nothing to support hit by a car. Okay. I don't know whether that's true or not. One of the things that exacerbated this was because part one of the causes of death was hypothermia that he was left out in the snow and froze to death. That was blunt trauma, of course, contributed to this. You know, guys, as I said, people are putting different things of evidence in the chat. And I'm not going to retry the case here. I want to watch a poll or key for present, how the O'Keefe family feels about this and how they feel about moving forward in this case. But because we didn't put them on camera or anything, of course, during the trial, I had a lot of people ask me, like, what were they like? And they seemed like, for a reason, very, very strong kids. They're great kids. They're strong kids. They're resilient kids. They have every excuse in the world not to be good kids. You know, my niece, Kaylee, super strong. One asked if she wanted to testify. We told them they didn't have to and she said absolutely she wants to. You know, she wanted her voice heard, her story heard. I wanted people to listen to her. She felt like because she was, you know, 14 at the time that no one wanted to listen to her. So she was strong and insisted on doing it. And my nephew was, you know, he wanted to support her. So he said, if she does it, I'll do it. So I'm proud of them both for doing what they did. Yeah. Yeah. They're really strong when they go to the stand. Amazing. Do you feel comfortable telling me just from all that you've learned over the last two and a half years, like what you think happened that night? Oh, we know what happened. We know that Johnny and Karen were arguing. It was kind of towards the end of their relationship. Things weren't well. You know, they were drinking and. Arguing and fighting and. You know, an intoxicated state of rage and jealousy. She just decided that she was going to do something about it. And. You know, put the car on reverse and round down and left him there to die. And. We figured it out. As soon as she left the house that day when she came over. We didn't talk to any investigators to please nobody. You know, my mother had said, do you think she had something to do with this? And I said, we're not going to think like that. Went outside to the driveway to look at her car and her car was gone. It was a blizzard. I knew what the driving conditions were like coming from the hospital in Canton. And I knew that they were going to back to Daiton, which is a much further drive. So I. We put it together pretty quickly. I was going to ask you that next. So you took words out of my mouth was like, when did you realize? It was literally that morning. Yeah, so I would say early afternoon when they came back to the house, you know, she wanted to come over and see the kids. Didn't really interact with them at all. Was there for probably a total of 30 minutes? Didn't say much or anything. And half of her time was upstairs gathering her things. Then my wife spoke to her on the phone on the way back to Daiton. And she told my wife that. Just have to remember the bad times. And I don't think I'm ever going to talk to you guys again. Was that phone call? What made you sure of what had happened? Absolutely. Yeah. We already, like I said, we put the pieces together on our own. And that just really solidified it. You know, why would somebody say that? Why would someone say, you know, if you didn't do anything, why would you say you're never going to talk to us again? Or why do you have to remember the bad times? Almost like justifying what you did. You know, folks, some people in the chat keep talking about his cell phone never pinged in the house. I mean, there's all of these pieces of evidence that the jury surely had access to it. And perhaps that didn't sway them. That didn't sway them to believe that he was never in the house. And for those, I heard this other times, like, why didn't they search the house? First of all, you can't search someone's house unless you have a search warrant. And if they would have went and asked to search that house, I'm sure they would have said, no, you have a search warrant? No. So none of this was raised early on in this investigation. It was raised by the defense. So searching the house became a mute point at that, at that juncture. So you're not going to be able to search someone's house. WWE equestrian center in exotics. Maybe there was a fight outside bill he didn't get hit with a car. You know, I don't know exactly what happened. And obviously either does the jury because they didn't vote to get hit. Legal minded friends, Karen Cole from the chat, Karen Reed paid polo keys bail when he was drunk driving hit a car at 25 miles per hour. That victim was paralyzed. But Karen, what does that have to do with this case though? I mean, Lucy, why not let them search it from nothing to hide? Lucy, if someone came to my house and said, can we search your house? I would tell them no. 100%. Absolutely not. You know, this is, would you let someone go on a fishing expedition inside your house? I think not. You know, the fact that Karen, she paid his bail from the DWR. But what does that have to do with this case though? It doesn't have anything to do. Rosemary time. He could have dropped phone outside. Jen kept calling his phone. Folks, this is police off the cover. Real crime stories. If you like real crime, true crime from a police perspective, then you're in the right place. And if you're not subscribed to us, go on our YouTube. Hit that subscribe button. Give us a thumbs up. Bring that bell. Share us with your friends and family. Hit the like button. If you want to contribute to us financially, we have a Patreon with four different levels and we also have a YouTube channel membership with Karen on five different levels and you can join our YouTube channel and receive all of the information we put out and all the cases that we cover from a police perspective. Ghost, they pulled the vehicle with a search warrant. How fast was that warrant issued? That's a different story, Ghost. When you get a search warrant, you need what's called probable cause. So the facts and circumstances were presented to a judge. The judge signed it and they had a search warrant. There was no similar thing done in regards to the house. Rose Gracie. Rose Grace. Being their cops and supposedly innocent, I would think they would absolutely let them search. The difference is their cops. Rose, that has nothing to do with it. I was a cop. I would never let anyone search my house, ever, unless they had a search warrant. And no matter who you are, you should know that. You should never let anyone search your house unless there was a search warrant. WWE Question Center and Exotics. Bill, when an officer is killed, why didn't they secure the scene and see if there was an altercation in the house? A warrant would have been easily obtained, I think. Because there was no indication of that. This wasn't raised until the defense raised this. So why would they create a defense for the accused? It just wouldn't happen. Let me get back to Paula Keith here. Right. How would you have expected her to act in that situation if she hadn't done something? No. I wouldn't have expected her to act in that situation. More sad. Empathetic. Synthetic. But, like I said, when she was at the house, she barely said a word. She wanted to be there for the kids. My nephew came home. My niece was already home. By the time she got there and her family arrived. And I sat down. My nephew in the other room, she sat right next to him. I explained to him that JJ's, you know, something happened and he's no longer with us. She didn't say a word. And right after that, she went upstairs and started gathering her belongings and the next thing you know, they were gone. Oh my God. Yeah, it's hard. It's a strange behavior. Very strange. When did the whole narrative of her version of events become known to you? Well, if you remember her first arraignment in Stoughton District Court, her attorney, David Unity, had said this is a tragic accident. His client had no criminal intent. And then, you know, fast forward to, I guess, when Alan Jackson came on board and, you know, they teamed up with a blogger to get their story that they concocted and put together and flooded out there. And people who are only hearing one side of the story and coming to conclusions before actual evidence in the trial had actually begun. So a lot of the public was misinformed, you know, because they were only getting one side of the story. And, you know, we didn't come out and tell our side of the story or, you know, what we thought or knew happened. We've kept a little profile and have been silent through this. This whole ordeal. But, you know, now it's time. You know, I just want to answer some of the questions in the chat because it's, they're interesting. And I think Susie C-19, you don't think it's suspicious that the homeowner or a Boston PD officer never once comes out of his house. Well, they were all out, they were all drunk that night, you know, including Karen Reid, who purportedly drank seven or eight drinks, according to the bartender at the bar that they were all out. So they were all so, could it have been that the owner of the house passed out and was asleep? I don't know. But I don't, was, was there noise outside? I mean, what, what was it that would have drawn him outside? Blissfulness, where was his phone located under him? I heard, how did it get there? Well, good question. I don't know the answer to that. Brooklyn Janet, isn't finding a dead body in your front lawn probable cause to go in the house? Brooklyn Janet? No, unless there's a nexus between the body on the front lawn and the house. If there is a nexus, if there's a connection, yes, then you can draw up a search warrant and present it to a judge the reasons you think it occurred in the house. But without that nexus, no, there is no probable cause to, uh, um, Susie C-19, I'm married to law enforcement. Uh, the most important thing was happening outside of your home. You better believe my husband would be outside. Okay. But, uh, Susie, I'm just saying everyone this night was drunk as all hell. They were all drunk. You know, according to them all being at the same bar together. Apparently there was a lot of drinking before they reached that. And again, I'm not here to retry this case. This case is going to get retried. Uh, Lori Daniel, but I think they should have put that whole house. And I think the whole practice said was no, their cops. Lori, I, you know, it's when you think about the timeframe involved, this was never raised by the police on the scene or the investigators. This was raised by the defense and years later. So this defense came up by some clever defense attorneys and guess what? It worked. It worked, but is there evidence that anything occurring? Was there evidence that John O'Keefe was inside that house? I don't know. I don't know. And the fact that they didn't or couldn't obtain a search warrant, uh, be lies that, uh, explore core TBH. I do not get a good feeling from Karen. Her actions, but that doesn't mean she's guilty. Sadly, John's fellow colleagues botched this case. So there will always be reasonable doubt. Explore core. Yes. They did botch this case and you would think that they would do, um, Nina Shanderer. Here's our student, fourth amendment for anyone who wants to look up about search warrants. Well, thank you, Nina. That's very, uh, uh, Lucy from the chat. What if they knocked on the door and wanted to talk? I didn't do anything. Why not? No, that, that's fine. I don't know what the extent of the interviews were that night or the next morning with the people that lived in that house. Um, I, as I said, I didn't cover this case after the first two episodes I did. Uh, I didn't cover it. So I don't know all the ins and outs of this case. Chacha Chi. Oh, Keith feels guilty for his own crime. And now he wants Karen to pay for what he believes. She did. He believes the dirty, dirty cops. Look, I, I don't know. Uh, you know, if that has anything to do with this case, I mean, after all, it's pretty, um, believable, but, um, and I, I believe she also took a breath. Liza takes the next day, but a bartender testified that she had seven or eight drinks. Uh, that's, you know, that would make me drunk and I'm six foot one, 215 pounds. I think she's a lot smaller than me. So it's blood, uh, alcohol. Little meant I did not. I stayed away from the trial. I didn't want to, uh, as I said, I felt that the trial was so toxic. And I, I, some of the people that were involved in it, there was a person, I don't want to even raise it, uh, raises him by name, but he was arrested for intimidating witnesses. That's horrific. You know, what this is a miracle. What trial is someone, a journalist, a legend journalist. He's not a journalist really allowed to intimidate witnesses, you know, or harass witnesses. That, that's, you know, horrific. Um, so let me, let me get, uh, let me get back to a polo. Keep you. Now it's time for people to understand the truth. Um, and. You know, the jurors, um, we thanked them. They did a great job. Um, it's put in a lot of hours. Uh, paid a lot of attention. We're tired. Unfortunately, they weren't able to come to. You know, a consensus, um, as far as a verdict goes, but, you know, we have another chance at it and, you know, hopefully. The jury that we get for the second time around. Well, you know, we'll see things more clearly. So. Just so I'm clear. You think this all started when Allen Jackson showed up. And Karen throughout the course of this trial. You think she knows what she did. She knows exactly what she did. And she's trying to buy and lie her way out of this. You know, refusing to take accountability for her actions. Not only that, but pulling the finger and blaming innocent people. Yeah, talk to me about that. I mean, because the thing is it's the story on the defensive side is not just. Oh, she didn't do it. It's she didn't do it. And all these other people did. Yeah, I mean, she's pointing the finger at everybody. Everyone's, everyone's lying except for her, according to her. Um, I think we had 67 witnesses. Um, we had 65, 68, I'm sorry, testify. Um, and according to them, they're all lying and they're not credible and. You know, um, which I mean, those first responders. Um, that we're just doing their job that day. Jen McCabe, Kerry Roberts. All they did was pick up the phone and help issue the asking for help. And according to them, the only one telling the truth is her. Right. So the, I don't even know what to call them. We have a variety of names, the pink people. Um, they turned on all those people first, Jen McCabe, Matt McCabe. But then how have they treated you guys over the course of the last year, year and a half? Well, if you just go back to any video of us, uh, walking into court during pretrial hearings, yelling, screaming, calling us names. Um, I, I, this day, I don't know what I did wrong. Um, I get messages all the time. Um, whether through Facebook or other ways of communication, you know, telling me that I'm a moron. I'm stupid when you dope my eyes and all this stuff. Um, but I just, I ignore those. Um, I don't really care what people say to me because this isn't about me. This is about my brother. Um, and I like to think I'm, I know a little bit more of what's going on in the case than, you know, people that are just reading stuff on, on the internet. And there's been things said about me, accusations about me, all types of things that just aren't true. Um, but again, I just brushed it off because this isn't about me. So if these people buy into this big conspiracy, right, that Brian Albertson murder or whoever. Okay. If they buy into that, why are they turning on you guys? Have that ever made sense to you? Because we don't believe in a crazy conspiracy theory that holds no merit, no evidence. I mean, we know these people and Jen McCabe has been a family friend of ours. She was friends with my sister. Um, we've known her for over 10 years. She was very helpful with, um, you know, picking Kaylee up to and fro. Um, when he took over raising the kids, um, Kerry Roberts, we've known for a very, very long time. Right. And at the time, she didn't really know Jen McCabe or any of the McCabe's or Alberts. And her testimony corroborated everything that Jen said and the defense. I think was scared of her and didn't want to ask her any questions. They just wanted her off the stand. Um, and I guess the, the negative or hate that's directed towards me, mostly me and my mother is. Because we support these people who are. Being falsely accused of something they didn't do. Right. And their lives have been turned upside down and partially ruined. You know, Colin Albert, who was a 17 year old kid at the time, his life has been turned upside down and well. Um, I've gotten to know, um, the Alberts through all this and they're all good people. Um, so just the, just because we don't believe in a crazy conspiracy theory and we believe that Karen Reed is guilty of killing my brother. You know, they take it on us. Doesn't it feel sometimes like your brother's forgotten in all this? Absolutely. All the time. Um, it's turned into the Karen Reed show. You know, she walks through a crowd that she hears her on. She goes out in public, takes pictures, signs, autographs. She's just, she's just living her life like nothing's ever happened. And meanwhile, my brother's been gone for almost two and a half years. And I just want people to go back to who the victim is in this. It's not her. It's my brother. What do you want people to know about John? You call him Johnny. Kids call him JJ? Yeah. Um, yeah. I mean, my older brother. So, I mean, um, generous, loyal. Um, sometimes they're paying the ass to me. I'm sorry. It's paying the butt to me. It's paying the ass. Um, you know, just because he was my older brother, but he just, he just was there if you needed him. It took care of the people that he loved. Good, hard guy who didn't deserve any of this. You know, he rearranged and uprooted his life. He went from a, you know, single, single, the bachelor lifestyle of an embossed into moving into instant dad role. And, you know, that's something that obviously everyone admires him the most for. And I do too. Um, you know, it was an easy form at the beginning, but, you know, he learned to figure it out and, you know, it all helped as much as we could without getting in the way. Just an overall good guy. And I assume he chose to do that, right? I mean, your, your sister's situation is unimaginable. Yeah. So then, well, after my brother-in-law passed away, we had to figure out, all right, what do we do? And at the time, my wife and I were like, all right, we'll take them in. At the time, we had a three-year-old and an eight-month-old. So we were trying to figure out the, how are we going to do this? Our house was small. We didn't really want to live in the house that they both passed away in, but we were trying to figure it out. Best way possible. And then John just stepped up one day and just said, I got it. Wow. And then pretty much moved in the next day and took it from there for eight years. So there's a reason that's why so many people describe that that's what they admired about him. Yeah. I mean, a selfless act changing your life, you know, to take care of his family and people he loves. And that's him in a nutshell. I know I asked you how your mom's doing already or how your parents are doing, but I just can't imagine for her losing two kids. Yeah. Is she like a different person now? You know, guys, you can see again, and even in the chat here, we have two sides, many people. Most of you, I think, Karen Reed is innocent. And I think we all agree upon the fact that the police did a horrible investigation here. And, you know, when you have the lead investigator proctor, it just destroys the case. And I would be interested to know when they retry this case, the prosecution has him for life. They can't get rid of him. The defense, of course, is going to want him to testify and they'll do the same show that they did the first time and showing all the things that he did wrong. But, Tom Kean, from the chat, with this case, beginning all this attention if Karen Reed was not attractive, did not have the financial means. That's a good question. I don't know. But look, there is different levels of defense in this country, as we all know, those of us old enough to have watched the OJ Simpson case many, many years ago, when he hired this million dollar defense team, known back then as the dream team, is this similar here, these really top notch attorneys. And, you know, it's, that's a good question. Explore core, okay, would have been blubbering mess unable to walk if drank 70, bought his monitor pictures, cut off by four that can't watch dog, although yeah, you know, something I was a bartender for years, and it's, yeah, you're supposed to, if someone appears intoxicated, you're absolutely by law required to cut them off and not serve them any longer, but people are served all the time that a drunk, you know. Donna G, why did they do a horrible investigation because it was a frame job someone mentioned before why did they not use the proper evidence bags. That is a mark of unprofessionalism, of course, but you know someone I first come on the NYPD, our crime scene unit didn't have their own paper bags because you're supposed to put biological evidence, blood, hairs, fibers, all those things in a paper bag. So it doesn't degrade, and we would go into a bow dagger and grab a paper bag off the shelf our crime scene unit did that was, you know, 30 something years ago, longer than that actually. But since then, of course, our crime scene is unit is much more professional and they do have, of course, because we, that's another thing we learned from the OJ Simpson case when the bodies of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson were found in that alleyway, a police officer took a sheet from the back trunk of a radio car and covered their bodies with it. All of us know that's no good. That's going to contaminate now whatever was in the trunk of that radio car now potentially becomes part of that crime scene, we all know low cards, low cards, principal of exchange. I always want to say theory, but it's a principal, Dr Edmund low card that you know, it's, it's the theory that principal actually principal I don't want to say theory principle that when you bring something into a crime scene, you're bringing those outside things into that scene. Similarly, when you take something out of a crime scene, you're also bringing that away from the scene. So that is the theory of low cards, principal of exchange where evidence gets exchanged like we say in the Gilgo Beach case, everyone loses 50 or 100 hair, maybe not me, hairs off their head. Every time you go somewhere, hairs just fall off your body. That is DNA was we learned in the, in the Gilgo Beach case that's mitochondrial DNA, and that was used from 1993. They found Rex Uaman, the accused Gilgo Beach serial killer, they found his hair underneath one of the bodies so, yes, they did not practice sound crime scene protocols. And I think everyone is, it's concerned with that. Be Mac, she's guilty. Well, you know, we, as I said, I think probably in this audience we have here today. It's split, it's somewhat split. Don, Don Clayderman, I'm on the side of proper investigation that necessarily on Karen's side Karen is every one of us when there is poor procedural and unknown. Don, you know, something you're preaching to the choir, you know something. I was in the detective bureau as a boss for 16 years. Right. And we in the NYPD like to say that our detectives are the greatest detectives in the world because they are, they are. And all police departments probably throughout the nation. Follow the lead of the NYPD when it comes to so, so many things. And one of them is crime scene protocols and we are one of those police departments that has a separate crime scene unit that processes crime scene. Many police departments just have their detectives process the crime scene. But that should be a specialty. There should be a special unit that does that. And on the NYPD, they're in fact is, and I think a lot of departments have gone to that model. Becky B from the chat, you can't convict a person based on their looks if she wasn't attracting there was as much reasonable doubt in a case I'd still say that person wasn't guilty. Yeah, look, you're right, but I think in life and in everything. People that are attractive. It helps you. Let me put it that way. I think it helps. So, again, I'm not going to try the case in the chat. There's so many people with all kinds of different opinions and mostly I'm agreeing and with most of the things everyone saying, but as I said, I'm not going to retry the case. Let's go back. It's a polo key for you. She's a strong woman. I'll give her that. And as an imaginable, you know, just to lose them in the ways that she did, you know, my sister suffering for five and a half months with her own cancer. But at least have had the opportunity to say goodbye. And then, you know, my brother just being taken from us so quickly and senselessly. I know somehow she, she keeps it all together. My father, quiet, kind of keeps to himself. But I mean, overall, what they've gone through is some fear. Yeah, unimaginable. But they're strong and they keep moving forward and this same thing they do what they have to do to take care of the family. I have to ask you, we got ushered out of the courtroom pretty quickly on Monday. You had a little exchange with Karen, you might, what happened there. So throughout the trial. She likes to turn, look at me and mark. She's never once made eye contact with my wife Aaron. And when this trial was announced, she turned and looked right at Aaron and gave her a mark. And I went over and hugging and celebrating to some extent. I just said, you know, you're not done yet. Did she say something back? No, but I mean, it was an emotional day, emotional moment being in that courtroom. Sitting so closely. And that's something that she wanted. Yeah, can you talk about that? I mean, the courtroom switch, we know all the legal reasons why it happened, but you guys for like arms length from her for the entire trial. I guess, after a while, you just got used to it, but yeah, showing up every day, sitting that close to the person that took my brother away from us. It was not easy. It took a lot to not say anything. But again, it wasn't about me who were there for one purpose or one purpose only. That's to get justice for Johnny. What did Adam and Laura said you guys afterwards, like what looking ahead. Yeah, I mean, they were, they were disappointed in the outcome, but Adam said he goes, we're just going to do it again because I'll stop tomorrow. You know, so they're confident. They have the truth on their side. Unfortunately, if you pay high powered attorneys enough and put your enough lies out there, you know, you start influencing people. To the point where there's just no turning back. I think people just don't want to admit that they were wrong or duped. But, you know, they're, they're confident and we're going to go at it again. He, he being Adam has been like, he's kept to himself a lot, similar to you guys, over the course of this. Yep. Do you think that's been hard? I'm sure it's been extremely hard on him. You know, he's not the type that looks at social media or pays attention to that stuff. He just keeps his head down and does his job. Good for him. It's not a flashy attorney that wants to be on camera all the time and have press conferences on the stairs, like some people. He's just a hard work and, you know, I guess, notes to the grindstone kind of guy and just does his job. You know, the very difficult job. He's never once really complained about it. You know, to us anyway, I know it's hard on. I know it's hard on Laura. I know it's been hard on everyone who's been involved in this. But everyone's determined that we're just going to do it again. Has your circle of like the people who support you guys? Has it grown? Has it gotten smaller over the course of all the noise outside of this? So for me personally, I've kept my circle smaller. People that you were friends with or haven't seen in a while, you just don't know where their mind's at. What they believe. So we've been forced to become very kind of like defensive, not as outgoing as we normally would be. But I think recently we've, I think we're gaining some more support. I think people have been afraid, you know, to show up to court and I guess counter protest to the people that are outside. I think people have been in fear. But I think that's starting to turn. I think people want justice. They don't want this influence of, you know, social media and public perception based off of lies to, you know, to win or to take control of this. Do you want people to show up with? We'll take all the support we can get. Yeah, no, we're not going to turn anybody away. I mean, every time we go to court, you know, we're kind of portrayed as the bad guys. You know, and at the end of the day, it's, you know, we lost a loved one. You know, but somehow we're still, I guess, vilified for just not believing in a crazy conspiracy. Yeah. On that note, was it hard for you at all? I mean, there were certainly some moments in the case where there were weak spots exposed, right? Like I think about the solo cups and trooper proctor who now is facing job consequences as a result of this. What was it like for you to listen to those moments that weren't necessarily benefiting the state's case? Well, as far as at the very early stages, I mean, a crime scene during a blizzard is can't be an easy thing to navigate. And yet, you know, they found evidence. They found a sneaker. They found pieces of tail light. You know, obviously you're not going to see everything under a couple feet of snow. So I think they improvised the best they could. You know, every investigation is going to be kind of scrutinized to some degree. But, you know, they did what they had to do with what they had, and with the wedding conditions being what they were. They just, like I said, had to improvise and do the best they could. As far as, you know, Michael Proctor's comments. I mean, he even said to they were unprofessional, which we agree with. But, you know, this guy, his life's been ruined, you know, getting his personal cell phone, which was something that should never have happened. Josh Levy should never have been intervened in this. And then the FBI investigation was launched due to cherry picked evidence that was or pieces of discovery that was only provided by the defense, like this is on this is unprecedented to not even speak to the North Fork district attorneys office not speak to the mass police to see what they have for discovery and evidence. Just to intervene himself in that way, and which casted, you know, a shadow of doubt on the investigation. So I think he has a lot of questions that need to be answered. Yeah, do you get updates on that? I do not. I do plan on trying to sit down with him at some point, whether I got a knock on the door. I sent him an email, but sure I won't get a response, but if I have to go knock on the door and ask for a sit down, that's well do. Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you want to make sure people know. I just in all this, I just want people to remember the actual victim. I think I mentioned it before that it's not the Karen Rachel. Yeah. This is about a good man. Whose life was taken way too soon. And for selfish reasons, and has created a void in our life that was already an enormous void, but just made it even that much bigger. And I just want people to remember him and want him to get the justice he deserves. And that we deserve. And that's Karen Reed doing prison. Thank you. So that was the interview I thought that was important to show you know folks. I know, look, I know Ed Wallace and Judy Rondell show about the crime scene. Look, I was a boss in homicide for 10 years in the Bureau of 16 years. And he said something about you should process the scene before the snow thaws. Yes, in a perfect world. Yes, you should do that. But guess what? There were times when I waited 16 hours for crime scene to show up. Because there was, there was other crime scenes taking priority all over the city. I don't know if that was the case here, but for him to say that, you should process it before it falls. Yeah. I'll go out there where your own freezer. Like, come on, it's ridiculous. Yes, in a perfect world, you should do that. But we do not live in a perfect world. And as I said, I sometimes would wait on a homicide scene for 16 hours for crime scene to show up because they were busy all over the city. So just say that, okay, you know, it's easy to say that. But when reality hits what, you know, what you're preaching, it's a different world. So folks, I just think that it's important to see how this has affected the family, John O'Keefe's family. And we all know that this cases, it was a mistrial, it's going to go to trial again. And will they get the same results the next time? I think there's really a good possibility that they will. So is there any possibility that the prosecution, the prosecution may offer a plea deal? Or is that too late? Has that ship come and gone, you know? Joshing use has put up a tent by the crime scene. That's actually, that's done sometimes in rain and stuff like that. But it all depends on the whole topography of the crime scene, whether you could, in fact, put up a tent or not. You know, folks, I want to just also, you know, as I said, this case is so has been and continue to be so toxic. There's some two sides and it's almost like when you disagree with someone. I think we can disagree and agree to disagree and still talk to each other. But somehow in this case, it got to people calling names and this, that and the other thing. And when you bring the police corruption thing in there, there's all kinds of toxic relationships and toxic language being used. But I just wanted to, I thought it was important to hear Polo keep speak on behalf of the O'Keefe family. Does it change anything? No. But I think that maybe we could understand where they are coming from. Joshing you. Did you have eyes on the scene the whole 16 hours that you abandoned to? No, no, we absolutely had an officer that would guard the scene until crime scene showed up. Absolutely. There was no way we would ever leave the scene unattended. So, Lalo me polarizing. Yes, it is a polarizing case. It is Lucy from the chat. Sadly, it's common gone, I think, especially with the internet and how will they find an impartial jury now? Very difficult to do. Unless they got to have a change of venue. That seems to be what a lot of cases requests. Explore core. My gut tells me she will not accept a plea deal. She does not seem to be the type now. She is even more confident. Explore core. I agree with you. I already answered that question from Joshing you. This is the most Virginia little this is the most toxic case I've seen in years. If ever both sides are dug in and there is no middle. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. Naomi McFarland. Wait, were you just disappeared? Okay, here we go. Naomi McFarland, this is the most confusing case I have ever heard. Well, you know, Robert P, change of venue, I hope. That's a possibility, but certainly improbable in this case. Anyway, I just want to thank Mel Stiller. We respect everyone here. Absolutely. Again, you guys, if you're new to this channel and you're not subscribed, just go on a YouTube hit to subscribe. Give us a thumbs up, hit the like button. And until then, I want everyone to have a wonderful 4th of July and realize we are all Americans. And we all, we should all love each other. And even though this case is very toxic, I think that when they retried, I made 12 back into it. Certainly isn't the only case that we cover, but I want to thank everyone that came by today. And as I said, again, enjoy the 4th of July. Have a wonderful day. I'm Bill Cannon for Police Off The Car for Real Crime Stories. Be safe and God bless. [MUSIC] Hey, it's Michelle Beadle. That's right. The Michelle Beadle. You're welcome. You love talking about sports. I love talking about sports. You know the only thing cooler than talking about sports? Sports? And right now, all your favorite sports are on SiriusXM. I'm talking every NFL game, every game from the NBA, NHL, MLB, every NASCAR race, golf major, major conference college sports, and all the top games in the WNBA. If you get your heart pumping, it's on SiriusXM. 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