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Well that's good. Welcome to PH.L. Why Flyers? My name is Bill Matts. I'm your director of fun and games for the evening. Joining me as always is Philadelphia's number one hockey beat reporter. It is. Charlie O'Connor. What's going on today Chuck? You know, we're the way through the week. Just pushing through. I'll tell you, we're going to reveal the poll results for next week's Tuesday Reviews. They're really happy with the response we got to it. Everyone loves Slap Shop, but looks like it's going to come down to a Mighty Ducks vs Mystery Alaska. So we're going to get to both at some point, but it looks like that's what it's going to come down to. We did have one request to do a D three, but I made it clear, you know, Charlie doesn't make a ton of demands, but Charlie has demanded. We never touched D three. I do not want to watch shit. I don't want to watch D three yet. I refuse. Dave Hacksdall is that Dave Hacksdall is that. We're going to make Charlie. We're going to make Charlie god way play defense, but yeah, it's, we're going to get to that, but I hope everyone enjoyed the Slap Shop stuff yesterday and listen, we are deep into it now. Everyone's at there. Everyone's at their cottages. Everyone's at their shorehouses. The NHL off season emphasis on the word off is a, it's in full swing right now. So we're going to have some fun today though, and it's a, I'm dubbing this. What if Wednesday? What if that's what we're going to do, I think on Wednesdays for the next couple of weeks here, while, yeah, absolutely nothing is going on, hypotheticals, just kind of throw in hypotheticals at each other, some different scenarios for the upcoming season. We're going to get to those. But first Scott Lawton made an appearance today and he was on a, he was on daily face off the morning cup of coffee show there on their YouTube page. So this is, this is the show that Frank Servale is on, correct? This is the one Frank Servale is not a daily face off YouTube page, but a different iteration of daily face off. It was a good interview, said some interesting stuff today, but there was a, a pretty big as you would assume, because John Tortorella is the face of the franchise. I mean, soon to be supplanted, hopefully by Matt Fehmichkov, but a lot of Tortorella questions. I just wanted to run through some of this stuff today. Yeah. Well, that was why I asked if, because I have not listened, you, you told me that he was on. I was like, Oh, cool. Um, but I know obviously Frank runs daily face off. The reason why I, I wonder that is because Frank has been out of the, I feel like out of the national media members has been the most critical of John Tortorella's fit in Philadelphia. Yeah. Um, so that is why I was interested because it appears that Scott Lawton went on the show and was pretty complimentary of one John Tortorella and I was curious as to how Frank would respond to that given the fact that Frank did not agree with the, the, the two are all higher to begin with. And also was one of the reporters who, and, and granted, like I did too, but he was probably even more forceful than I was, was reporting that there was significant dissension in the locker room following the Charlotte material scratch. So I just, there's just an interesting thing that, that now Scott Lawton is going on the daily face off show that is, you know, maybe not a show that Frank Sir Valley is on, but a show that he like manages presumably and saying relatively good things about it. It's interesting. Yeah. There hasn't been like a, like an actual, like, I think the daily face off of Frank since like July 1st, seems like there on their summer, I probably went to the cat and like, yeah. And the other shows are kind of pumping out the content fair. Maybe I'm wrong, but at least that's the way it looks on their, uh, their podcast feed, but I would check this out. It's on the YouTube page. You want to see the whole show, but there was a lot of Tortorella stuff. Um, and he kind of didn't like, mention like the couturier thing specifically, but like just talking about towards just the change since he's come in and he, he was very complimentary of John Tortorella was Scott Lawton saying like, you know, he's been huge because he holds you accountable and not just the young guys, but the older guys to like everyone gets held to a, to a similar standard and, uh, like how do you deal with that and everything because he was talking to, uh, just about the Chancatore thing, like going and meeting with Danny Breyer and it's, you know, Dan, he's really close with Sean. They live together at one point and he's just like, it's never personal with torts. And that's just something you have to know going into it. He's doing what he thinks is best for the team and everyone's going to get it at some point. Yeah. Like that's the, no matter who you are, like Chancatore, who we thought, you know, he wasn't really around the first year of Tortorella, but it was like, my God, if there's a player on this team who used to coach every coach's favorite is Sean, Sean, Victoria, no, he's going to get it too. And like you see it with Travis Connect me, they had their early issues and then it moved on and you see it with Morgan Frost, you see it with Bobby Brink, but basically everyone gets it at some point. Yeah. And it's hard for me to think of a player on this team that I have, that has either been publicly reported or I've heard privately that like has had John Tortorella either give him shit behind closed doors or actively scratch and or cut his ice time or as well. So it just, it, it is a thing where even for his favorites, like, do I think it's a little unfair that Morgan Frost seems to get held to a different standard than Owen Tippett? Yes, I do. I think that is, that is Tortorella letting his favoritism play in. However, the first year he coached this team, Tortorella did, he pushed Tippett hard, especially in the first half of the year. And not a lot of that got out because it was all just like, you know, yelling behind closed doors and calling him out and tape studies and whatnot, which like, I mean, he does that to everybody. But again, from what I heard, he pushed Tippett very, very hard. And then Tippett came out the other side, and that's one of the reasons why he really likes him and gives him a longer release, but just because I think that he maybe shows favoritism to Tippett versus Frost, it doesn't mean that he hasn't given Tippett shit before he has. And then I think there's that, that famous, it was from maybe the preseason or an early season game year one with torts, and he's just yelling at, and it's like instructive, but he's like pretty given it to Tippett pretty good, where he's like, I don't know what you are. Are you a scorer? Are you a grinder? Show me who you are. And yeah, he has, like he has come out on the other side of that. But like thinking about this, that like everyone's going to get it and everyone has gotten it from torts at some point, we've talked and this will come up again in the, you know, hypothetical part of the show about Mishkov and torts. It feels like he's going to have to, like even if, even if it's all pretty okay with Mishkov from the start, like he's given him what he wants. He is going to have to, because these guys, a majority of them have been with Tortorella for a year or two, they've seen Sean Couturier's scratch, they've seen Cam Atkinson, you know, his favorite scratch, they've seen him even, you know, cut Scott Lawton's ice time, they've seen all this stuff happen with Kevin Hayes, Ivan Proverov, he's going to have to give it to Mishkov just to kind of create balance in the locker room now. I would agree. I would say that, yeah, that, especially given the height. Well, we talked about it a couple, like last week, when we talked about Mishkov about the fact that some people were concerned, we had commenters, we had people in the mail by concerned about the idea of, you know, could Mishkov get a swelled head? What happens if he starts thinking to highly of himself, you know, and it is true that because of the hype that understandably surrounded him, the fans are putting him up on a pedestal and in that locker room, there is a, there is the potential for players. I don't necessarily think most of the players, but there's the potential for little jealousy where you're like, hey, what is this kid proven? This kid hasn't proven shit. He comes in and everybody cares about him way more than us or NHL veterans or established quality NHL players. One way to deal with that very quickly is to do some Torterrel justice, which he is very willing to do. So I would not at all be shocked if two, three weeks in a year, he sits in for a third period after he blows a coverage or something. And then it's a huge thing and people on Twitter go crazy because of course they do. But like that, you can't tell me that part, the reason why Torterrel screwed with Shongateri wasn't because he was the captain, because it was very much a like Tom Hanks. I'm the captain now kind of thing. Like, yeah, you might have to see, but I run this friggin team like, yeah, you're the captain of the players. I'm the captain of the ship. I'm the general or whatever. And I do suspect that Torterrel at some point will do that to my famous golf. Absolutely. Yeah. But I will say like the Kevin Hayes thing came up several times. And I don't think he could be understated how big a deal this was in the locker room that he's not on the team anymore. They clearly clashed personality wise while Kevin was on the team. But the fact that he stuck up for him, the way he did in front of the cameras, that meant a lot to everyone in that room a year later, like it was a big deal. And I think that is part of what makes Torter's, even though he, there's this perception of him that like Jesus Christ, given a rest, dude, he does have his, which is fair. Yeah. And like it's a lot to be coached by John's. Yeah. And like they said, like, listen, we do have fun with it. Travis Connecty is apparently always fucking with him. He's always just like, yeah, okay, like the, the Tampa Bay that game he actually got kicked out of, but like they're honoring the O 14 and he's the coach, like Connecty was giving it to him on the bench, the whole game. And like that's just part of the relationship where he gives everyone, but he can be one of the boys still, but that Kevin Hastings, I don't think like we, we've talked about it with Ann Sanfilippo and the way that all went between he and Torter. Part of that absolutely was, I don't want to say a show for the locker room, but just a little reminder that, yeah, I'm an asshole, but I have your back too. I'm your asshole. I'm your assholes, a very funny thing to say, but yeah, like he does have the dudes back and that I think is part of why, why we have this perception of Torter, like you look at his resume and go like, how the fuck did he last as long as he did it? Basically every stop. Like you think of him as a dude, it's like three and out, right? And outside of the one year in Vancouver, that has never been the way it is for him. And this is why I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think we talked about this when the haze Sanfilippo situation happened that, and I've made this point actually last week when I was talking about the idea pandering, that something can be simultaneously sincere and calculated, that it could be sincerely calculated, that John Torterrella was sincerely annoyed that Kevin Hayes was presented as the villain in the cut or go to a saga. And he felt like that was unfair and he was righteously angry at that. By the same token, he also, probably before he did what he did, thought about it and thought to himself, you know, this will probably play well in the room because Kevin Hayes is still very, very popular. And there are probably still people in that room that are a little resentful that high forced him out because I didn't think he could play my way. So something can be sincere and also calculated. And I think that was one of those things that was both sincere and calculated to have an impact on the room. Absolutely. Just a couple other little things I want to touch on from this interview, asked about like Danny Jonesy and Hilforty and the whole gang and everything. He said, everything around the rink is better. They come in and shake your hand after every game, like it's night or use to, like, it's just the family feel of maybe when Scott Lawton was like very young or even before that. And he heard stories of what it used to be like. And then it wasn't that way. So like while we see the little things and we're like, Oh, they're doing a lot of fan service, which is great. Like, I love fan service. I am a fan and would like to be serviced. Like it's, it's my money, God damn it, you know, the fact that they are restoring that I think is important just in terms of, especially given like the Gochia, the Colossev situations, it's like, yeah, but the perception of the actual NHL players here is this is a great place to play. Like, and I want that because as we've said, they're going to have to track some free agents or make some big trades at some point and they're going to want to have to come here. Yeah. I mean, it's this combination of the two and like, here's the thing. I've said multiple times that I don't, I'm not particularly enthused by the idea of building this team via free agency. Sometimes you get lucky and you get in our Temi Panera, but a lot of times the guys you get in free agency that you think are elite guys are either not actually as good as you thought they were or they, they were good and now or not. Sometimes you get a Panera and you get a superstar, but it's pretty rare. I'm more in favor of trades, but one of the parts of trades you have to remember is a lot of times the reason why star level players are being traded is because they don't want to stay with their team. So if you're trading for a star level guy, you're trading for him with the knowledge that he will resign with you. And if you want to convince a Mark Stone that you're a better environment than Ottawa, you have to build that environment because what did they do? What did they just do the minute they traded for Mark Stone? They signed to a long term deal. Like that's how this works. So it trading in a lot of ways, especially when you're trading for these star guys, it is trading to get a jump on giving him the big deal. So he never even hits free agency in the first place. And to do that, you have to have a place where people actually want to resign. And if you're acquiring somebody with some term, there's a good chance. If it is a high level player, they have some sort of protection. Exactly. They're going to have to want to come here. Exactly. Claude Drew wanted to go to one place. It would be nice to be that place. And I do also think it's important. We just spent a lot of time talking about John Twitter Ella. Yeah. I do think it's important for if the flyers are going and who knows how much longer the John Twitter Ella rain is going to extend to. But if the flyers are going to continue to have John Twitter Ella's their coach, they're going to be, not everybody, but they're going to be players who don't feel like playing for John Twitter Ella. Don't feel like dealing with the circus that is a John Twitter Ella run team. So if you're going to have him as your coach and you want, you still want to attract players, everything else must better be great. Like the atmosphere, the locker room better be the most fun, the, the higher ups better treat you so well, the facilities better be the best, the city better be great. Because all that stuff housed outweigh the fact that you have to play for John Twitter Ella. Yeah. And that was, it was like that one of the things, one of the things Lawton said about Torts was like, well, you know, like, you know, he's always going to have your back. You know what he's going to, well, okay, you don't always know what he's going to say. But you know, he's going to fight for you and have your back. Yeah, man, it's, it's insanity here. One other thing that I really, there's some people that understandably do not want to, I'm not even going to say play for, I'm going to say deal with work for a crazy person and Twitter rel is a crazy person, especially like you're getting like a 30, 31 year old to help you for like in the next year or three, whatever, like you're making your push, the windows open. It's like, God, is this how I want to like close it out? Exactly. Yeah. Well, that was why I always said why the, the hiring of Torts in Vancouver was always nuts. It's like, you really think he's going to come in and the sedines are going to buy into this? Yeah. We're all famous, man. I'm starting to deal with this crap. I'm 33. You know what I like doing play in every night. Yeah. He said last year was maybe the toughest year, the way it ended because they were in a playoff spot all year, blowing it and just that like, God damn it, we were there. I think that really speaks to like one, how much the locker room wanted it. And two, like, yeah, the last few years have been tough, but this year was like, God damn, we were there and they just didn't have it. And I like that he said, the young guys are going to have to take the next step for us to do anything. That's true. Wow. There is. Hey, man, this is a rebuild. We're developing. It's like we are counting on, yeah, there might be some sort of like, I don't know, behind the scenes, maybe resentment of what Mitch Kave is or whatever. But like, no, we need him. We very much need him to be what they tell us he's going to be and you're going to take another step and they are clearly acknowledging that. So like, I don't think there's going to be that locker room issue. Just based on that one little sentence, I think that's good. Well, it's just, it's just the reality and yeah, Lawton has, you know, paid attention to this offseason just like we have and has seen that the Flyers didn't really get anybody. You know, they, they got Mitch Kave, which huge, but like, he was already in the organization in theory. It's not like he was a new acquisition. He just came over sooner than they thought. They didn't go out and really add anybody really. Same group. Well, Scott Lawton is not, you know, he's not old, but he's not a young guy. He doesn't have a ton more years left. So if he won, he only has two years, two years left on his contract, if he wants to get to the playoffs and he wants the team to succeed, which he obviously does, he wants to be on a winning team, he knows that that's not going to come from the big acquisitions they made this summer. It's going to come from, you know, Cam York and Joel Faraby and Tyson Forrester and Owen Tippett and Jamie Drysdale and Sam Harrison taking steps because it's like we all we got what all we need. Like this is, this is what they got. And they know from last year that what they had, I guess, Sam's Mitch Kave wasn't enough to make the playoffs. So if they're going to make the playoffs, which is what Scott Lawton wants them to do because he's not focused on, like we're focused on what's the timeline? When's the team going to be a cop contender Scott Lawton understandably is not focused on that Scott Lawton is not like, well, in four years, things will be great. Like in four years, I might not be in the lead four years. I'm going to be 34. Yeah. Like that's it. So he's focused on how are we going to get better now? And he's looking at this roster and saying to himself, if we're going to get better now, like it's not going to be because I took an enormous leap at age third. Yeah. That would be because the 22 and 23 and 24 year old guys got significantly better year every year. And maybe they will. It's not all the wrong possibility. No. The final thing that I wanted to point out from this interview, um, the last question of it was this January 11th, 2025 mean anything to you. And they're trying to get him to say, yeah, he knows when the Anaheim game is like he has the cutter game scheduled and circled. Yes. Yeah. Does he have it circled? And he did, but he said, I just looked at the schedule and Radco and I planned a dinner for the night before Radco, that's like one of his best books because they asked him about like, I guess there was a tweet from like two years ago, like, Hey, does anyone know, like, does anyone know about how Scott Lawton feels that he loses his best friends at the deadline every year? Yeah. Right. Hey, Raph, those were all like his best friends and said, Lawton is basically best friends with everybody. Yeah. He's just a genuine, likable guy. The only guy he wasn't. He just started. The guy who wasn't best friends was an I for freaking profile. Yeah. He just like, he started naming dudes and I was like, you just named half the roster from the last five years. But yeah. So it was like, yes, I know what that game is, but like, I just planned a dinner with Radco for the night before that's like, I know what that game is. But also he knows. Yeah. He knows what the fans are going to do. Do you think like it would be one thing if it was like if Proverov was like some huge villain and like talked a bunch of shit on his way out of town and like we're fucking getting them, you know, circle that game, but like Kudagochie was never here. Yeah. Like they drafted him. He was at like one development camp. He wasn't at the last one, like he was never here. Do you think they give a shit at all? So they know the fans do probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what I will say is it's definitely going to be bigger for the fans and probably the organization like Danny and Jonesy and all of them, you know, yeah, they're going to be be hoping the flyers kick cutters ass because they feel betrayed and they feel lied to and whatever like they're going to be limited about this. The players know, I don't think I think there were there's some bitterness there in terms of, you know, this guy who they thought was going to be the Mitch cough, you know, before he was the Mitch cough before Mitch cough. Yeah. Top five pick. And it's like he's going to come help us. You know, obviously he talked to Hayes before before he didn't sign, but like Hayes was friends with everybody. So I'm sure he met some of these guys and they probably feel a little bit trade. But I do think it's more for the fans that said the players know that the quickest way to the fans heart is the blow up go to you on like the first second shift. Like they're fully aware like they want to play to the crowd and you know the easiest way to play to a crowd that is like figuratively and literally going to be out for blood that night is to crush Carter go T.A. and show up the kid. So I, well, I don't think there's a lot of personal animosity. There's a plane to the crowd element to this. I'm sure I do want like if guarded half the way it's just like give me that first shift, but I will, I will caution everybody, you know, let us not forget. Harry and Hatcher knocked out Sidney Crosby's teeth and that was all well and good. And then he tortured the fliers for two decades and then he's just like that game. He scores the winner, like, yeah, I was at that game and then, yeah, and then, you know, the next 20 years where his personal bitch like so be careful what you wish for. But I don't think even the highest people on, you know, on cutter go chase talent think like, Oh yeah, the next Crosby. So also he's out there. Yeah, as long as he stays out west, they're not going to play him a lot unless he, you know, decides doesn't like Anaheim either forces way out of there too. You know, we're going to play them in a cup of fine. It's going to happen. It's just like Patrick Kane. All right. 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So I did my die hard mailbag to tomorrow, hopefully I'll have my, my free mailbag, but I got the die hearts out first because I wanted to get that out before the end of the month, but I had multiple people, I had one person in our die hard section in our discord for die hard members only and then I had about two or three people in my call out for questions on the, the free mailbag for, for PHLY@allPHLY.com, asking about the Mitch Cough at center thing and I get it, this was the thread that I had, because I was like, look, I answered this question in the, in the die heart mailbag, but not everybody's a die heart, y'all should be, but not everybody is, I understand, it's not, not cheap, it's worth it, it's not cheap. That said, I felt like this was something that should be said on Twitter because there are a lot of people who I think, understandably, are looking at the flyers, current and future depth chart and see a big old gaping hole in that onesie spot and now that Mitch Cough is here, it's like, well, we have a boat, but could we have a luxury liner? And the idea is, well, if he, if he's already great, why can't he be great at center rather than wing? And the point I made in this thread, and this is my opinion on the situation is, it will be awesome if Maffee Mitch Cough, somewhere down the road, can work at center. I do not want him worrying about learning a new position in year one. I don't want anyone, I don't want the fans, but more importantly, because like fans can say what they want. Like they can, they can ask for Jane Gossberg to be a forward for six or eight years and like, it doesn't matter if the organization doesn't think it's a good idea. I'm like, sorry. Keep shouting into the void. But I really don't want the organization to put even more on Mitch Cough's plate in year one because I would argue that right now there is nothing more important to the future of the franchise than Maffee Mitch Cough becoming a really good NHL player. Nothing more important to the, let's say the next 10 years of the flyers organization than the prospect outcome of Maffee Mitch Cough, that he isn't just a decent player. Of course, that he's not a boss, but if it isn't just like, hey, he scores 50 points a year. He's a perfectly fine second line. I'm like, no, they need him to be at least a clear cut first liner. And they really, really want him to be a star level Batman type guy who can be the best player on a cup contender. If that's the most important thing, then year one has to be about make like increasing the likelihood as best you can that he reaches that point. And he's already going to be adapting to the best professional hockey league in the world in the NHL. KHL is good. It's not the NHL. The NHL is significantly better. There is going to be an adjustment period for him in terms of dealing with, you know, quality competition in terms of dealing with more physicality in terms of dealing with changes of style of play and tactics that are used, that's going to take some time for him to fully adjust. And he's going to be fully adjusting off the ice to a brand new culture. He's not fluent in the language. He doesn't really know everyone. Now the flyers are going to do their best to help him. And they, the peers, they're doing that with the idea of bringing over his brother and his mother, having him have a tutor. It looks like he's already getting integrated with his new teammates. He was over at the Phillies game with Joel Faraby and Cam York and everybody, which is great. It doesn't mean it's going to be easy. This is going to be a year of him learning how to live in a new place and play in the most difficult league in the world. That is enough for now. Why make it even harder by having him do all those things and learn the finer points of the center position? My thing is let him play his most comfortable position. Like I don't even want him playing left wing. Like I, I am sure that Mauvee Mitchkoff is smart enough and skilled enough that in the long term, if you need to push him over to the left side, he will do perfectly fine. But this season, if he's more comfortable on the right side, I wouldn't play in right wing every fucking game because I want him in the most comfortable position possible for him to be able to excel at the NHL level as quickly as possible. Because that is the most important thing for this team. If a year down the road, two years down the road, Mitchkoff is putting up incredible underlying metrics and he's fully brought in, bought into like the spell of John Torterrella and is this tenacious defensive player. If like you're looking at him and you're like, well, shit, I mean he could, he's, he's smaller, Tyson Forrester in terms of defensive awareness, then yeah, it would be great if he could become a full time NHL center. For now, let's just let him play where he's most comfortable and make it as easy as possible for him to transition his game to the NHL level, rather than throwing another big transition point into what is already going to be a very difficult year for Mauvee Mitchkoff both personally and professionally. Yeah, I've basically said the exact same thing like the way that the Flyers view development, I think comes in here as well. Not that I want Mitchkoff like playing in the AHL or anything, but it's similar to the idea of let a guy dominate at one level before moving up, moving him up to the next. Like let's let him be the best right wing on the team before we think like, let's change his position. Exactly. Like let's see if he's better than Travis Connectney first and then once he is, it's like, oh, okay, well, now we can try this other thing. That said, given what everyone has said about his IQ, all that, obviously the skill is off the chart, but just the, like the problem solving the way he plays the game, the amount he has the puck on a stick may lend itself to center at some point, could the way it did with Claude Giroud could. I think we need to look no further than the last really great player we had here who drafted as a right winger and then transitioned to center because it was like, well, we need a three C and then eventually, you know, became the one and we want him with a puck on a stick. Yes. And he showed, I mean, one thing we talked about a few weeks ago when we were going through the, those, the rankings and we talked about like the shift that Giroud had in game seven of the Boston series where he's battling three guys and he's winning those battles. Like if by year two, Mitchkoff's doing that on a regular basis and even though he's maybe five foot 10 at best is winning those battles along the boards and doing all those little things, then you're like, yeah, maybe he can be at NHL center to damn good one at that. But I don't think it's something they should force on him even, even if he wants to do it. Yeah. Even if he comes to them and start a camera. So I want to be a center. They just be like, Excel it right wing first, then we'll talk, choose show, choose show. We don't have them to. Yeah. All right, let's do some hypotheticals for what if Wednesday I am, I'm glad we just talked a little about that. It's been something going around. We have everybody in the chat throwing out hypo long term, hypotheticals. Yeah. That's not really the focus of this one. Yeah. This is, this is 2024. 2025 hypotheticals. Listen, if we do this the next couple of weeks, it's going to, we're going to talk about some long term stuff. There's a few I left off here that I hopefully can get to in the coming weeks, but I just want to focus on these couple for today. And then, you know, we'll see where this goes. This is basically, this is basically a mailbag, but questions I have, like rather than like asking other people, because that's a whole different thing, you know, mailbags, we're going to, I'm trying my best here to come up with off season content for all you. And this is what I came up with for today and hopefully the next few Wednesdays. All right. So it's proposing some hypothetical scenarios. I tried to have some positives and negatives in here. So it's not all just like, well, what if Jamie Drysdale sucks? What is it like? Yes. That is the first one. But like, there are some positive ones too. So bear with us. But the first one I want to get to here, Charlie, it's a two part earth. The first part of it is what if Jamie Drysdale isn't impressive. What do you think that means for this season? What do you think that means, like in terms of team planning going forward? Now this could be, he misses a bunch of time again, or when he's out there, it's like, yeah, he's fast and he can move the puck sometimes, but he's not even she and Gost is fair and like, he's just a third pair of defenseman with some speed. What I will say is that I, I don't necessarily think it's going to dramatically change the flyers view of him because the people I've talked to, both on and off the record in the flyers organization, very much view the Drysdale project as a long term project. This is a more than they set and forget kind of issue for them. Yes, they do not think this is going to be a like, well, we brought Sean Walker in and after one camp, he was awesome. They do not think that's going to be the case. They do not necessarily even think he's going to be awesome by the end of this season. They do want him to make progress. They want him to look better. They want him to be showing flashes and they want him behind closed doors to be grasping concepts and to be taking instruction well and things like that, but there is a scenario where Jamie Drysdale's numbers don't look that great next year and you still talk to the fly, you know, Danny Brier and Keith Jones and everybody on the record and then I'll talk to people off the record and you'll still hear that we're still, you know, bullish on his upside. We still think he's very good. Now, there's an element of this from the flip side where you're like, you might be too close to the situation. You might, you're so high on what this guy could be that you're not seeing what's right in front of your face. And then he's actually not that good. For me, if he has an underwhelming season again, whether it's because he spends the year injured or whether it's because he's still putting up God awful underlying five metrics, nor is he scoring a lot on the power play, yeah, it's going to increase the degree of urgency that I will be writing about in terms of them finding a solution on the back end because right now they think Jamie Drysdale can be an impact player on the back end. Do they think he can be a do it all number one in the mirror? Hey, skin tomorrow. Nah, I don't think so. I think, you know, it's a plausible outcome, but we're talking like three, four percentage points of possibility. Not likely he's, he's, he's an offensively oriented defenseman who isn't that big. The chances of him becoming Cal McCar are pretty slim low where he's so good at all those things and it doesn't matter that like some minds he gets pushed out of the front of the net occasionally. I don't think he's going to be that good, but they think he can be an impact guy if he has another underwhelming season by the numbers and overall by the eye test. I personally will be like, yeah, maybe they should maybe one of those first three, there's three first round picks. Maybe a prioritized high end defenseman, maybe not with that first first pick, but maybe with the second one or third one because you might need more help back there than you think. For them though, I'm not sure if they changed their, they're tuned dramatically because they view the, the Drysdale reclamation project to be a, you know, two to three year project rather than one that's going to bear fruit immediately. That's, that's very interesting to think about. And I know that they've like said all along, like we don't think he was developed properly. So they don't therefore, therefore they were basically starting from scratch with him. Like he was, even though he'd had, you know, a full season and parts of a few other seasons in the league, it was like, yeah, he is a prospect in our eyes. So maybe that's the way it goes. I don't know if it'll really, I do think it changes in my mind what they need just in terms of that's my view to it changes in my mind, what I think they need while I like again, I don't think he's ever going to be a kale macar. Like you do need defenseman who generate considerable offense. Now, if he is good on the power play and it's just like, okay, we can figure out the rest. And like my idea is like long term, they were really good blue line and 100 McDonald's and Jamie Drysdale are together on that third pair and he can play some power play cool. But you need some defenseman, at least one guy in your top four who generates some pretty high end offense. They don't have that guy, they could draft him, it could still be coming. But of what they have right now, that high end offense in your top four doesn't exist, I need him to be that and if he can't be that very much changes like, yeah, we need centers, but I need one defenseman who can do that thing and hopefully he's it. If he has another less than impressive year, it's like this might move up to priority number one for me. I would agree. I wouldn't say it would move up to priority one, but it would definitely move up my personal priority list. I think the best way for me to explain where my mindset would change is when I was doing all my draft research for this past draft and I did a ton, I had a full ranking and everything, I ranked Zayn Parek pretty low in that top tier, not because I didn't like him. I had some concerns about him, he's very inconsistent in a lot of ways, particularly in terms of his defensive effort and that worried me, but if I was covering a team that had different needs, I might have put him three or four places higher than I did. But my viewpoint was, you're drafting Zayn Parek to do what you already think Drizell is going to become. I don't think there's room for two of those guys with nearly identical theoretical skills sets on the same blue line. However, if Drizell has another underwhelming season, now I haven't done enough research to know if there even is a Parek type in this draft. Maybe if there is one, he's yet to have his breakout and he's going to have it in his draft here and then he's going to soar up the rankings. But if there is a Parek type in next year's draft, I will be significantly more open to the idea of taking him with a high pick because I'm no longer thinking, well, how do Drizell and this guy function on the same blue line because I might be thinking Jamie Drizell might not be on the blue line when the fliers are good in conjunction with this. And you're not a reactionary. So I can't imagine this changes your focus on like Jamie Drizell and the fliers team building, but it's fun, but what if on top of Jamie Drizell, not looking all that good. Cutter Gochier wins the caller. It wouldn't matter that much to me, but it would matter a lot to the fans. What would matter in your perception of the front office? No, because it is what it is like we've already broken down the the possible reasons for why Gochier turned on the fliers, like whether he's good or not, it really isn't relevant to the mistakes or non mistakes or Gochier being a jerk or Gochier being entitled. Like none of that matters. It's just like I'm rooting for that not to happen because I have to deal with fliers fans on a daily basis and they would be fucking insufferable if that does happen. But it really wouldn't change my opinion on much of anything because they were stuck. Like guy wasn't going to play for it. Whether he's good or not, he wasn't going to play for it. I think if we had maybe more names of who they were negotiating with, who they were negotiating for, but like the only thing I've heard definitely is like Arbor Jack guy's name came up. I heard Marco Rossi and Marco, OK, well, that's a pretty good one. But even like if it was Arbor Jack, hi, it's like, well, God damn it, I hope they were asking for more than just that, but like I think if we had more like, OK, but they could have had this guy, maybe that would change it a little bit. But Jamie dries. They all was like their target. They really like them. They're really high on them. So as I've as I've said from from really for months, I say it a lot in our in our discord because people are always talking about cut or go to it's that and people are always talking about like they got did did they get screwed in that deal? Should they have called go to his bluff and going through all the scenarios? My viewpoint is always from a pure value standpoint, I don't think it's a bad trade. Like in terms of the way that dries Dale was valued around the league guys that skate that well that are right handed shooting defenseman that were taken in the top 10 and are still that young are valued like gold bullion around the league. Jamie dries. Dale at the moment he was traded was a super high value asset. You could make the case that that go to a was valued higher, you know, he was coming off the big world juniors, whatever, don't underrate just how highly valued Jamie dries was around the league. He was if this trade works out where dries, they'll just stinks and go to a is awesome. It is not a failure of negotiation because they got a highly valued player. It is a failure of talent evaluation because they got a highly valued player who they viewed as someone who's going to be an impact player and then it turns out they're just wrong. But it's not like they traded for a guy who if you asked 31 other teams, 25 of them would say, yeah, he's going to be a third pair of defensive at best. Like a lot of teams in the league viewed Jamie dries as a blue chip talent worthy of a massive return. But move fires got a good return. They might just be wrong about him being as good as they think he is. And that's a scouting and player evaluation failure less than a negotiation. All right. We have less than 10 minutes left in our poll up on our Twitter, deciding what next week's movie is going to be. So if you haven't already head to over to our Twitter vote, whether you want to see Mr. Alaska, Mighty Ducks, goon or young blog featured on next week's Tuesday reviews day. And while we're taking a quick break from the what if Wednesday portion of the show, I got to tell you about our friends over at Shady raised, that's right. You got to get ready for all seasons with quality shades built to last. Our friends at Shady raised have you covered with premium polarized shades that won't break the bank, Shady raises an independent sunglasses company offering a world-class product rated five stars by over 300,000 people. Their shades have durable frames and crystal clear optics, making them the perfect choice for all outdoor adventures. They have hundreds of options to choose from. 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You put some of the mailbag stuff in there because well, you had what if I thought it was interesting to talk about a question that was a what if question that was in the mailbag, which was if you get a time machine and the ability to go back 15 years and change one draft pick development of skill in a player, a trade contract. What do you do? Example go back in time and teach Eric Lindross skate with his head up. What one changes the biggest impact on the current day flyers? I gave two answers because my real answer was not part of the parameters of this question, but I think it is the best answer. My, my, my answer based on the parameters was he's going to know for Patrick because I know people are going to be like, well, what about my car? Number one, he was the guy they wanted the, the scouts wanted. Number two, I am not convinced the fliers of Elle. Cal macar. I'm not. And kale macar, man. You go back like Colorado fans were like, what the fuck like that was they were not convinced. And it was, I don't, I don't really, it was a little bit of a stretch. I don't really care about whether it was a stretch or not. I just mean, what I care about is I watched the fliers handle Shane Gosses fair. I am not convinced that that fliers organization would have let Cal macar be Cal macar, whereas Mira Hayskin is like the perfect NHL defense man in terms of like he has no holes. Mm hmm. I don't even think that fliers coaching staff could have fucked him up. So I'm taking Hayskin and over Patrick and then giving the, the end of the jury or a true number one defense been much better than I've improved Robin seeing what they can do. However, my true time machine moment is I am returning to October 14th, 2011. And I am begging Chris Pronger to sit out that game, claim a family emergency. Say you have a stomach bug. Say you just don't feel like playing. I'm doing it. I don't care. I want to see a world where he does not take that stick to the eye from Michael Gebrowski. And I get to see Chris Pronger be the number one defenseman of the Philadelphia fliers through the end of the home green era. So Homer doesn't lose his friggin mind and trade for every bad defense in the world. Nick Grossman, Andrew McDonald, Pavel could be like every single bad defense he can possibly think of trying to replace Chris Pronger. We get to see a blue line core with Pronger aging like a Hall of Fame defense, usually ages, which is damn well behind young, Drew, Vorchek, Kateria, Shen, Simmons, and see what that team could do. That is my time machine. What if I would now I take issue with the framing of Teats Lindross to skate with his head up. It's not that he couldn't. It's that the technology didn't exist at the time. Like we I would just like to bring him if I had the time machine, just bring him a synergy. Just bring him and like the power stick that he used like they developed. It was supposed to be lighter. It was a little bit different. But it wasn't hollow the way the new sticks are. And that way he would have been able to feel the puck with his head up and skate. I would like to just bring him that technology from just a few years in the future. Just bring him the Easton synergy and go here you go time to dominate. But yeah, that would be nice. But we so many things. But seriously, like the big problem with that flyer, they had no defense. It wasn't even that they had no defense, it was that they didn't have a number one defense. Yeah. Because if you keep if you have prongers still, I wouldn't be surprised because what they do is obviously they go and that playoff run the Drew moment against Crosby and then they lose in round two. So they lose in round two. So they panic and they fucking trade JVR for Shen because they need a right handed shooting defense. But I don't think that trade happens if prongers help because I think they probably beat the devils with prongers. Good chance. Whether they win that when the cup that year or not, I don't know. But I think they beat the friggin devils at least, which changed that entire complexion. So I don't think JVR gets moved. I think there is a not a higher chance. Probably they resigned Carl because he was prongers partner and Carl probably ages better being next to pronger. Cobra was still good teaming and you have a few more years. That top four is still real good with pronger. The big thing and the reason why they went crazy going for Weber was because they didn't have the number one. And then they spent the next two, three years trying to like money ball recreate pronger in the aggregate by getting a bunch of crappy players that all were good at one thing that pronger was good at. But as as entire all around the fence men freaking sucked instead of, you know, getting a guy who was actually good at hockey, like it's pronger and ghost on the same team. That would have been something my next what if what if Morgan Frost puts up 70 points because right now in my mind, I don't know, maybe you feel differently. Right now in my mind, Morgan Frost is a placeholder. Morgan Frost is, yeah, he might play one see with this year with, with Mishkov, see what he has cool, but like, I just don't picture him as part of the future with this team still. No. Okay. He sat 10 games last year. He sat the last game of the year for 32 minutes. I just don't see him as part of the future of this team. I think he is a placeholder until Jet Luchenko and one or two other guys are drafted, developed, acquired, whatever. What if though he puts up 70 points this year, then he's the fliers to say, they, you know, that that that's what my, that's what I changed to then it's Morgan Frost is young enough to fit the time on. He is the fliers long term to see. I do not. It's hard for me to envision a scenario where even if a better power play and the emergence of Mape Mishkov as a high end score as a rookie, boost Morgan Frost's counting stats and John Torell finally decides to stop screwing with the kid and he gets to like 70 points. It's not going to change my view necessarily of like his true talent level. It's just going to solidify the fact because right now I am in the point where like he's in that, like he can be a middle six forward, middle six center on my team day. If he can turn himself into a 70 point guy, even if it's partially inflated by Mitchkov, then he can be my second line center all day. I don't think I changed to think he's now, oh, well now we don't need a one C like no, now they got a two C now you only have one spot to fill. Now granted it's the toughest spot to fill. But suddenly you're like, you know, the centers center position doesn't look that back. You've got Morgan Frost to see you've got Chiangaturier three C or if he's first half Chiangaturier, he is like to CB to Frost. Yeah. And then it's like, all right, well, we've got Luchenko. I personally don't see one C potential in him, but I think the fliers do and maybe they're right. And then you've got to maybe go out and find somebody else, whether that would, I don't know. Again, I'm not, this is me just spitballing, but it's like, Hey, if like a superstar one C becomes available, like, maybe turn Chiangaturier go into him. Yeah. No, absolutely. It makes you feel a lot better. If Frost has a breakout year offensively, it makes you feel a lot better about a lot better about their center depth. It doesn't change the fact that I still think they need a guy. Yeah. No, that's exactly my position. Like if he is, he plays 65 games, say, with Mitch Cobb this year and they have their good together and he puts up those 70 points. Frost does that doesn't stop me from thinking they need a one C, but it's like, Oh, okay. The center depth is good, right? Not good. It's much better than I thought. Yeah. And we'll get to, I want to save a Chiangaturier question for next year, but then it's like, yeah, there might be, if Chiangaturier is like good enough to be that middle six center and he can be consistent for you, like, all right, there are games where if the fliers are up three, one after two, Chiangaturier is going to lead the team in ice time. Yeah. And then if the fliers are down three, one after two, we're going to see a ton of Morgan Frost. And that's fine. Yeah. Like it doesn't change my overall, like, Oh, yeah, they need to know once he's taken care of, they still need that sure, but it changes the, Oh, he's going to get another contract here. He is the two C. Yes. And that is, yes. They need that too. They sure do. They need to like maybe Chiangaturier is fine. There were games at the end of last season where Ryan Poehling got the most minutes of any center. Exactly. Like they needed to see maybe Chiangaturier ends up being fine, but like, I ain't back it on that. That's something I'm going forward, like with a, Oh, yeah, that that box is checked. They needed to see. And maybe Morgan Frost checks that then before we go with the final part of a, you know what, that's enough for what ifs today, because we can get to the rest of these tomorrow before we get to the super chats, I want to thank our die arts. Thank you very much to all the subscribers out there at all PHL Y.com who fork over their hard earned cash to make sure we can do what we do here at PHL Y York contributions are very much appreciated as are our super chatters. Summer is supposed to be an opportunity to slow down, but when you look at your kids, you can't help but notice that your kids are growing up fast, help them build independence as they grow with green light. Green light is a debit card and money app for families where parents can keep an eye on kids' money habits while kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. It's the easy, convenient way to raise financially smart kids. Get your first month free when you sign up at greenlight.com/spotify. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man, then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. In terms and conditions apply, linkedin, the place to be to be. On the road, off course they do. We have the most anticipated player since Eric Lindross in this city. Four straight 10 o'clock starts to open the season. They finally come home for that October 19th. I'm glad you're going, Gary. Hope as many people get to go as possible, but God damn four straight tens. Charlie, you're going on the trip, so it's not too bad for you. Yeah. We'll be here. I pity you. I'm out in the studio for post games and I'm told that we are going to be able to take callers for post game this year, which really bring it back. That really lightens the workload for me, like those old Broad Street hockey post games where the shit when I could just like, yeah, man, have at it. I'm just drinking beer, basically responded to your diet tribe. This is great. So hopefully we'll be able to do that again this year, but Gary, I'm glad you got your tickets. Hope everyone out there did as well. In the, uh, last, the second one from Patrick Patrick Patrick Patrick new here. What's up guys? Well, welcome Patrick towards and Shaw turned raspous wrist aligning into a server service It was their magnum opus. Shirley, they can work wonders on Jamie drives, they'll reasonable point. And I think that that is the hope. The hope is that Brad Shaw is the defense been whisper. And I do agree. I agree that wrist aligning is Shaw's magnum opus. However, there are minor masterpieces as well in the form of Nick sealer in the form of Sean Walker. He's done this to multiple defense men since becoming an assistant coach in the Philadelphia virus. So yes, I agree. The magnum opus is Risto turning him into an actually good defensive defense. But that was not a one time fluke. He's improved multiple defense been since taking over and out of all three, I think Jamie dry cell has the most impressive skill set. That's what I don't know. I was going to say like wrist aligning has a lot of tools. He does. Like it's not as if he is just as big or he's stronger. He has some pucks. He can skate. We've seen him put up points now. It was on the power play before, but like, and it was Buffalo and they just sucked and threw him out there and let him do his thing. They had. Get it for you. Got a lot of secondary stuff. That does pass in the bucket. Jack. It's not like wrist aligning is some talentless hack, but I would take what drives Dale has already like in terms of raw tools that's gaining ability and everything. Let's see. Who is more important though for drives Dale? Is it Shaw and what he what Jamie does defensively or so Rocky Thompson in the power play? Because like if he's the quarterback of power play one and does that very effectively to the point where like, okay, the offensive humming, we have Mishkov on the back. We have or on the wall, I guess, if we're going to do that stupid shit. I know it's what every team does, but it's not what I want to do and then we have up top. We have dries Dale and the power play is at least effective. We're not going to call it great. Low end possibility of that this year, but it's effective enough. Which one of those is more important? I think Shaw is more important to his quality as a player because we can. It's very easy if you pay attention to stats. It's very easy to isolate five and five play and evaluate that in a vacuum and say, wow, Jamie Driesle used to stink at five and five and now he's really good and we can measure just how much better he's gotten due to the influence of Brad Shaw. That is very easy to measure. However, in terms of public perception, the people look points, baby. The people look at points and if dries Dale dramatically improves at five on five and all of us stat nerds are like, yo, dries Dale's legit now. If he's still finishing with 29 points because the power plays garbage, most fans are going to say he's a bust. So I would say in terms of his development as a player, Shaw, in terms of his perception by the public, maybe Thompson. All right. And that is all the time we have for you on PHLY fliers today. Thank you all for listening. Thank you for hanging out. If you haven't already, you've got to hit that subscribe button. Follow us right here on YouTube. Never miss a live show. Hit those reminders. We'll be back tomorrow at 1 p.m. or normal time right here. Follow us on Twitter at PHLY underscore fliers and follow the podcast as well wherever you get those. Just search PHLY fliers. All right. My name is Bill Mattes. That's Charlie O'Connor until tomorrow. Stay loose and sexy, Philly. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]
Let’s try something new- “what if?” Wednesday! On today’s show, Charlie & Bill will debate a number of hypothetical situations for the upcoming Philadelphia Flyers season, including Matvei Michkov and John Tortorella clashing, Morgan Frost breaking out, and more!
Plus, we’ll discuss the proposition of moving Michkov to center, and Scott Laughton’s appearance on Daily Faceoff this morning.
We’ll also reveal which movie is next for Tuesday Reviewsday!
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