(upbeat music) Your NFL Sundays are about to get a whole lot more magical. When you bundle NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get the most live NFL games all in one place. And with multi-view, you can watch up to four games at once. So you can catch all the action right from the comfort of home. Watch every game every Sunday on NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV. Sign up now at youtube.com/Sundayticket. Device and content restriction supply, local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday Ticket for Out of Market Games excludes digital-only games. This episode is brought to you by Experian. Are you paying for subscriptions you don't use, but can't find the time or energy to cancel them? Experian could cancel unwanted subscriptions for you, saving you an average of $270 per year, and plenty of time. Download the Experian app. Results will vary. Not all subscriptions are eligible. Savings are not guaranteed. Paid membership with connected payment account required. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey everybody, how you doing? - Well, that's good. Welcome to PHL Why Flyers. My name is Bill Matts. I'm your director of fun and games for the evening, joining me as always. It's Philadelphia's number one hockey beat reporter, Charlie O'Connor, what's going on today, Chuck? - Nothing, and William, we are gonna do our best. - That's right. - To help guide everyone watching the show through the two worst sports days of the calendar year. These are the true dark times when there are no sports going on at all. - You say there are no sports going on at all. You weren't here as early as I was, out in our little green room, living room, whatever the hell you wanna call it area. - Okay. - I was watching the pillow fight championships earlier on ESPN news, and it was captivating. They were whooping each other's asses with some pillows, and now there's some like backyard decathlon going on, where you have to like chip three golf balls, pit three golf balls, knocks some tennis balls into, I don't know what, it was pretty damn entertaining. - Our secondary TV had a game with Franco Harris playing. That's how desperate the sports channels are for content. They're showing old Pittsburgh sealers gains from the 70s. - So this is, today's the day the SVs would be, right? That's today? - Is it? I was never an SVs person. - I never what, but I know it was today, like usually after the all-star game, the day without sports is usually when it is, I think. - That sounds about right. - And that's today. - Yeah, today and tomorrow, because baseball's gonna kick back up until Friday. - Yeah, so we'll do our best to help you through this. - Honestly. - Very tough time for all sports fans. - It's the rough time out there for us content producers. That's why you see all the rage bait lists out there. I honestly don't think our list, while it is PHLY ranked week, and it's ranked week throughout all city. I honestly don't think these are rage bait lists. Like one, I always think the historical conversation is way better than like, hey, these are the top 10 quarterbacks today. - Which ones first? Which one? - Yeah, Ellen Hertz is in on it. What do you think? - Underrated. - Like, okay, all right, I don't care. But like, I think like the historical conversation is stuff like we're doing here is considerably better than that. And there's been two flyers games listed on our top 20. - Yeah, we got a second one. - Yeah, we got a second one, baby. So on the top 25 games since 1980 in Philadelphia, number 25 and number 15, and we're up to number 15 on the list. So two out of the first 11 are flyers games. We're gonna talk about them 'cause they have a pretty similar theme in hero, Keith Primo. So we're gonna get into that in a little bit, but just a couple of things I wanted to hit to start today's show chuk. The first one, this came out about a week ago, but I read it this morning and I actually saw you had tweeted it out a day or two ago from the Liberty Line, the Mitchkopf Tour de Rella, how will their personalities kind of clash? 'Cause that's always, we talked yesterday, like Danny said, one of the benefits of him coming over early. So, well, Mitchkopf gets to play for John Tour de Rella, and they think that's important in young players development to have a coach like Tour de Rella. - It's the whole thing. - It's the whole thing, my Tour de Rella. - It's the entire reason. - Yeah. There have been, you know, different thoughts on it. Like, oh, he's gonna help round out Mitchkopf's game. They're gonna be a good match for each other 'cause they're in intensity. And then it's like, well, also, he likes to do certain things that the coach doesn't like. - We're talking about the coach who scratched the captain less than six months ago. - Yeah. - That doesn't seem to particularly love the most skilled forward they have in Morgan Frost. And like, listen, the difference between Mitchkopf skills and Morgan Frost skills are like the difference between mine and Morgan Frost. Like, there's a huge gap here. Not to disparage Morgan Frost at all, but like, Mitchkopf is on another level. - Yeah, Mitchkopf is like his puck skills, his vision, all that stuff is supposed to be, if not generational, at least high star level. And if Morgan Frost ends up being a 2C, that's really good for him. - Yeah. - You know, 2C in the NHL, you're really fucking good. - True, but there's a difference between that and superstar. - Right. - And that's what we're in. So it's just like, how is this gonna work out? But what I have thought along, and listen, there's gonna be bumps in the road and fit. He stripped, the John Tour de Real stripped to see off Vinnie LaCavalier. Those two friends now, but like, even highly skilled, really good fucking players have clashed with Tour de Real along the way. I mean, that being the Vinnie Torts relationship, it eventually devolved into the owner had to get the two of them in a room and say to both the, I'm not firing him, I'm not trading him, deal with him. - Neither of you are getting your way, so deal with it. But I kind of thought, well, there's definitely going to be bumps in the road 'cause there are with literally everybody. The coach really likes Travis Connecting. Year one with Travis Connecting, there wasn't much difference between year one with Kevin Hayes and Kevin Hayes no longer here, you know, like it's not-- - Especially the first month or so. - Yeah, the first, the beginning. - 'Cause if you remember, he sat both Hayes-- - He bested them both for the third period. - At the same time, one guy responded-- - Yeah, yeah, one guy responded to it the way the Tour de Real wanted him to. One guy did it, the guy who didn't hate here anymore. - There are gonna be minor issues along the way, I'm sure. - John Tour de Real and the fliers like when their players are uncomfortable. - Yes. - And Matt Bechkop is not going to be-- - Coddled. - Yeah, he's, well, not even coddled, but he's just, he's not going to be treated differently than everyone else, and everyone else is treated. - Poorly, you said it, not me. - Everyone else is treated in a fashion that, from the outside, we sometimes go, really, man? - Really? - Everyone is treated equally crappy. - Chocolatore is a really true, but you know what I mean. - Chocolatore, the longest tenured player on the team and the captain was injured, and they're like, it's a healthy, scratchy stinks. But he's hurt, yeah, it's a healthy, scratchy stinks. - No, it is, it literally is. - But the way I look at this is in the big picture of things. We talked about maybe one of the reasons Mitch Cobb fell to seven outside of, you know, the Russia factor, all that. He's had some character concerns, the way his competitiveness, like, exemplifies itself. Sometimes he's a little harsh with his teammates. He's a competitive guy, and he can be fiery. When Morgan Frost got his best run of play from the coach is when we joked, he basically took his shirt off, went into the coach's office and said, "Fuck you." That seems as if that's kind of, and that was a building process. Like, Morgan Frost had to be pushed to that point to finally go, "God damn it, I guess this is what I have to do." - Yeah, it doesn't come nationally. - That seems as if it's very much in Mitch Cobb's DNA, and Hill John Tortorella, pronouns pal, Hill appreciate that. I think it is, and the reason why I did like this article is because it presents that option. It presents that possibility that actually this could go really well. I think that, like, look, when you add a variable like John Tortorella to any situation, there's always going to be the possibility that it's poorly. - Yeah, he's faced. - 'Cause Torts is a very unique coach with a very unique style, especially in today's day of age. Maybe in the '80s, it wasn't unique. But today, it's very unique. And look, is there a way where this all blows up? And after two months, Mitch Cobb goes to Breair and says, "Fire this coach, or I'm going back to Russia." Yeah, like, and that's why you always have to be like, "Oh God, could some of the bad happen." But the way this article presents it and the way you just presented it is that this could also end up being perfect, that there are personalities. Well, it's highly unlikely there is going to be at least one blow up between them, that that actually could be good for both of them. And look, let's not sure we could it. I'm off a Mitch Cobb maybe an incredible offensive talent. He may have all of the puck skills and the vision and the wizardry that we think he has. That may all translate. He is far from a finished product defensively. And it's not necessarily that he doesn't have the ability to be at least passable defensively. He said, "Guy cheats, you know, guys cheating for offense." And there is an element where you're going to let your offensively talented players do that. Tour de rel, let's connect and get away with those kind of plays. Tour de rel, let Artemi Panera get away with plays like that because you can pencil him in for 90 points a year. And it's like, all right, well, yeah, he's going to blast his own a little early sometimes, but it all works out. Whereas like, if Morgan Frost can only score 40, maybe don't do that, also you're a center. But I think it's fair to say that Mafé Mitch Cough's game could improve significantly with some tough love from John Twitter L on the defensive side, that he could be a better player five years from now because Tour de rel rides him harder in year one than most coaches would. Because most coaches might go into that thinking, I need to treat him with kid gloves because he's the future and I want to build a good relationship with him and I'm going to let him get away with things because I don't want to, I don't want to be unnecessarily combative and risk the possibility of pissing him off. John Twitter L while I do think that Danny and the gang may be like, okay, well, there's some things you can't do. Like you can't scratch him without talking to us. You can't say, you can't say in the media, he should be in the minors and I'm just not allowed to do it. Like those things maybe he can't do, but they are certainly going to let him treat him harsher than I think most coaches would. And I think there is a, a very real possibility that five years from now, Maume Hitchcock is a better all around NHL player because he had to deal with a tough love from Tourts. That is the best case scenario. And I think this article makes it clear that like, that is a legitimate possibility and we shouldn't rule that out. - Absolutely. I just, I started laughing there Charlie because you said maybe most coaches wouldn't want to be unnecessarily combative. And I'm just thinking of like an eventual, an eventual memoir or like 30 for 30, unnecessarily combative of the John Torturella story. - That's really true. - That is maybe the leading title for this. - You know what it would be? - You know what it would be? It would be like the title would be unnecessarily combated, but the on would be in parentheses. - Yes. - It would be stylized. - That's perfect. - Yeah. - That's perfect. So it would be necessarily combative. - Yeah. And I'm just like thinking about like one, like a great, like this is very much a great buddy cop movie. Like the young, the young hot shot and the old grizzled vet. But like I was just thinking about the ESPN duo of Mark Messier and PK Subban. And you can have your criticisms about each individually. But I think as a combination, they actually complement each other very well because on the surface, they are so different. And the old like, ah, yeah. Grizzled jerk off in Messier. I give out a leadership award because I can. - Because I can't. - That is low key, that is insane. - It's awesome. (laughing) - Low key insane. - It started out as like a monthly column and became and like recognized by Rachel Award. But anyway, and then you have PK Subban, the face of the new generation of flashy hockey players, the suits, all that stuff. But when they start talking hockey, there is, even though maybe they come at it from different angles, like you see they're both hockey guys and they actually end up agreeing on a lot of things. And it's like how they got there was different. But at the end of the day, it's like, yeah, man, the hockey is a very like singular mindset, even the young guys. And I can see that kind of there being a lot of common ground for Tour de Rela and Mitch Cobb. And that's not to say again, that we won't see them like barking at each other in two different languages. (laughing) But I can absolutely see there being way more common ground than you would expect from an outside perspective. - I think that John Tour de Rela will appreciate Mitch Cough's attitude. - Yeah. - Even if there are times when John Tour de Rela might want to like just literally pull a gun out and shoot Muffet Mitch Cough in the head. But I think he will appreciate the firey attitude and the competitiveness in a way that I think someone like Morgan Frost irritated him because he felt like he was pulling teeth trying to get this guy to show some fire. I don't think he's gonna have that problem Muffet Mitch Cough. - I just, yeah, Scott Lawton didn't love, even though we said it like in a way that I thought was somewhat complimentary. He didn't love that we said he looked like a serial killer sometimes. I would love to know, John Tour de Rela probably loves that we think he's like borderline psychics. - Oh, I think he lives it. He loves it. He absolutely loves the idea of him being presented. Like he just, he eats that shit up like 100%. - He's this normal guy in most of his life. But we see a couple of things on the bench and we go, he should be locked up. And I bet he just goes home and laughs to himself about it. 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That's indeed.com/allcity. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Indeed. (laughing) That was good. All right. So that's the Mitch Call of Voice, verse two or two real. I highly recommend that an article on the Liberty Line right now. We also got some, well, we got some not so great, reports yesterday about Alexi Kolosov. And then, I don't know, I guess it's not negative, Igor Zavragin. He recently transferred to Scott St. Petersburg. He was then loaned to Sochi much the way. Maffet Mitch? Maffet Mitchkov was the last couple of years. Scott St. Petersburg perennial contender, a lot of veterans on that squad. A 20 year old goalie might not get a ton of playing time there. Now this at least allows him the opportunity to get a bit more in Sochi. Yes. I think from a playing time standpoint, I mean, it just gives him the opportunity to try out the KHL, which is huge, 'cause obviously last year, I mean, Zavragin's numbers last year were fantastic, especially for his age. You look at these numbers that he put up in the VHL, which is the minor leagues of the Russian system, and then the MHL, which is junior honors. But now he's gonna get an opportunity to play in the KHL, so that's cool. He's getting a new challenge, because he's already, I mean, 943, same percentage of the VHL at age, you know, 18, 19. Like, we're talking about a kid who was still 18. Like, he turns 19 on August 23rd. A month away, he's not yet 19. And at 19, he's gonna get KHL time. That's huge. Now, one point in Alex Appiard, obviously a contributor here at alphly.com, made a good point. And this is something that everyone should keep in mind. So she, and if anybody watched those games last year with Mitchkoff, they're not very good. They are basically, like, I think of them as the, and this might be a little bit of a throwback, especially to our young viewers. I certainly didn't watch it. My dad has told me about them, that they are kind of like what, like the Kansas City athletics were for the Yankees. Where basically they are like a glorified farm team for the Yankees. The Yankees would just send guys there to park them for a few years. And then when they got good, it's like, okay, now we'll take Roger Maris back. - Yeah, how's that Roger Maris back? We'll have him please. - We'll take him. And that's basically what's so cheap. So they're not a good team. So Zavragan most likely is not going to put up good stats. If you look at his numbers in the KHL this year, like he might have a save percentage at like 8.95. And you're like, yikes. That's not that good. Well, there's a couple things to keep in mind. Number one, he's going to be real young in the K. He's probably not going to get a ton of games number two because most likely he's going to serve as the backup. He's again, 19 years old. He's probably not going to be handed the starting job in the KHL, even on a bad team right off the bat. And then number three, like team's not good. So like he's not going to be getting much support defensively. They're going to give up a lot of goal. He's going to be facing a lot of quality chances. So it's really good, I think for his development, that he's going to be getting a step up in competition after shelling, that he's probably too good, even at age 18, for the main Russian minor league. Like basically the Russian AHL, fine. Let's give him a look at the top tier. And if he's not good enough, they could always send him down. They could figure something out with a loan or whatever. But it's good for his development. It just might not be if you bring up elite prospects in December, like don't be shocked and don't be especially dismayed if his numbers aren't that good. What Alex pointed out, and this is a really good point, this is again, this is why we pay Alex to contribute, he said the bigger thing you're going to want to look at is what are Zevragan's numbers in comparison to the starter at Sochi? Because the starter at Sochi is a legitimately quality goalie prospect who's older than Zevragan. If Zevragan's numbers are similar, equal to, or even better than the starter, even if the numbers don't look good at first glance, that hints that Zevragan's doing a pretty good job backstopping a bad team. But I would say on the whole, it's a good thing that he's going to get some time in the KHL. Just don't be fooled if the numbers at first glance that he produces as a 19 year old in the KHL on a not so great team are not that good. - You're like his age right now, just to put it in perspective, if he was a CHL player, he wouldn't qualify to go to the AHL. - Right, right. - And that's a league, like at least level wise in Russia, he has already dominated. - Yes. - So it's going to take a while, these goalie, like goal tending is voodoo, we tell say it all time. We have no idea what makes a good goalie or not. Their development pads are all different. It seems like we have a pretty good one here. - He's excited. - He's quite advanced for his age, and that's all we can ask at this point. Whatever his numbers are for Sochi, which if you're out there and you watched some Michkov games, like you said, they're not good. - Yeah, they're bad. - Michkov was good. - Yes. - The team was not that's exactly. And so we'll just, we'll see how that goes. But it's at least a step in the right direction for Zavragin. All right, last thing before we get into the rank week stuff yesterday on WIP, Hunter Brody had Jim Jackson on to talk about all sorts of flyer topics, but the TK contract came up. And JJ said, the thing we've all been dreading, he's hearing that $10 million range. And like, I don't know how much information, I'm sure more than me. But like, I don't know how much information Jim has about-- - JJ's is pretty welcome. - He's pretty clubbed him. - I'm just saying like, I don't think he's in the meetings. - No, I don't think so. But he's certainly talks to people. - He's been in the organization a long time, and he's willing, the funny thing is, is that this is something that like is very funny. Like he's obviously really good buddies with Keith Jones. My understanding though, is that like, Jonesy don't give him shit now, and it's very funny. - He's doing that to be a dick. - Yeah, like, this is actually something I tend to do. - Like you would think that like, oh, like if Jim Jackson is reporting something, he must be getting right from Jonesy. - No. - No, Jonesy doesn't give him anything. And he probably revels in it. - Yes, no, this is like, this is something I could tell Jim, but now I'm gonna fuck with him. - I'm gonna make sure he hears it from someone else. - Yes, exactly. But even if he's not getting information from Keith Jones, but Jim Jackson is pretty plugged in. - Yes. - So when he says something like this, I believe that, yeah, that's probably what Connect Me is still pushing for, probably. - But do you think, and yes, it's Connect Me's prerogative to ask for 10 million, do you think there's a chance? We've talked about this briefly in the past, that this is like some real sticker shock stuff, and that we keep hearing 10, so that when it comes in at 8.7, we go, oh, okay. - It's certainly possible. - Do you think that's possible? - It's totally possible. I don't know if the flyers are quite that devious. I just think it's negotiation. I think that Connect Me's camp is probably holding firm on this 10. Now, I talked about this in our Discord today, if you're not a diehard. Come and diehard, join the Discord. But I talked about this in our Discord today because we were discussing this report. - I wouldn't, it's like-- - It's on the borderline between report and work. - It's a conversation that-- - It's a conversation. - It's a trustworthy source. - A person that we all appreciate and like as a source and play-by-play announcer. - But the point I made was, look, if the flyers ultimately sign Travis Connect Me to a seven or eight year contract, nearing or exceeding 10 million dollars a year, that is a terrible contract based on comparables in the marketplace and we will be very critical of it. However, I will note that if the flyers were to give Connect Me around 10 million dollars on a shorter term deal, I still wouldn't love it, but I would be more willing to accept it. I would be like, okay, if you are giving Connect Me say 10 million dollars, AAV on a five year contract, then well, I still think that's an overpay for what he is on the ice. Like, I think he's probably an eight to nine million dollar year player right now. If you're giving him 10 million a year, you're overpaying an ideal, you're not overpaying guys by a mill or so. But it does remove one of my biggest concerns about the contract, which is how is he going to age in years six, seven and eight of the deal? If you're not giving him those years, I would at least look at that deal and I'd be like, okay, so you're basically trading away one major concern in how is he going to age given a style of play and his size and the timeline concerns for the fact that you're paying a little bit of a sticker shock price for him on the front end, but you're not necessarily getting killed on the back end when the flyers hopefully have turned the corner and are contending every year for cups. So just an interesting thing about where, like, if it's 10 mill over seven or eight years, that's nuts. If it's 10 mill over four or five years, I still think it's an overpay, but it would at least show that the flyers are thinking about this in terms of timelines rather than like, we need to keep connecting at all costs. Because a lot of times with these deals, like, if you look at an eight year contract and you look at the real money given out, like the first four years, even if it's an eight million dollar cap hit, the guys making 12, $12, $13 million in real money. So if the flyers could figure this out with connect me where it's like, okay, you want 10 million a year? Like, if that's your line, we'll give it to you, but we're not giving you eight years. We'll give it to you over four or five years and if that's a deal they ultimately come to like, I still wouldn't love it, but I would be like, okay, you know what, you're overpaying a little because you really like them, but at least we're not having to worry about the tail end of the deal, which is what I'm really worried about for multiple reasons. - When does camp open, Charlie? This is something I should probably know. - We don't have the exact dates, but I believe it's something like September 16th 17th is rookie camp, and then the actual camp is usually about a week later. So we're about two months out from rookie camp. - Yes. - That seems like, okay, TK's in town, camp hasn't officially opened yet. Do you think it takes until then? Like, do you think that's the, if it's gonna happen, that's when, or in these next two months, it could just happen any day? I know I'm asking you to guess something. - Yeah, like it's a tough question because look, in theory, it could happen any day. That said, generally speaking, this is when everybody goes to the cottages. So it's rare that deals just pop up on August 3rd, because in the end, deadline's spare action. And the deadline, well, it's not really a deadline. He's going to be under contract next season. They don't need to sign up until the trade deadline. But, well, they really have up until July one of next year. But the flyers have made it clear both on the record and when I talk to people off the record and I talk to sources, they would like this not to be hanging over connect me during the season. If they're gonna re-sign him, they would preferably like it to be done before camp starts because then it's just not a talking point. I mean, we saw it with Garnet Hathaway. They, one of the justifications that Danny Breyer gave as to why they gave him a contract extension like on July one was, well, if we don't re-sign him, there's gonna be trade talk around him all year because he's the exact guy you trade with a deadline so we don't want that hanging over him. It's only gonna be exponentially greater with someone like Travis freaking connect me who's like not just a guy you trade a third round pick for the deadline because you want some grit. He's like, actually a guy who could put you over the top of the deadline if you're trying to win a cup. So I do think they will want to get it done if it's gonna get done before camp starts. That said, it's not like I think it is a hard-fast deadline where it's like, well, we don't have them signed by September. We're putting him back in the trade talks. They could negotiate with him throughout the year. It's not like they have to do it. It's just that, yeah, I think they want to. So that's a roundabout way of saying, I think it is more likely this deal would be announced this deal will be finalized in early September versus in early August. I think that is fair because deadlines spare action and they do want this deal to be ideally finalized before camp starts, but it's not a hard-fast rule. It could theoretically be announced at any time. Maybe Travis Connect needs wakes up tomorrow and says, calls his agent and says, I want to be in Philly, stop with this $10 million year shit, just get it done. And then it gets done. That happens, but as of now, as of now, I do think it's probably more likely to happen closer to the start of camp because deadlines spare action. - All right, and that is our daily TK update. We'll keep you apprised of the situation as things occur, but we are in that dead period of the calendar. And that's what makes a week, like PHLY rank week so great, Charlie. And this year, across all city, every individual city counting down the top 25 games in their city's team's history. And the way we did it, and maybe we'll get into my list tomorrow, I think, just the top 10, I think I gave like 12 or 13. - Did you rank yours or just give 10 games? - It's the first like four or five were ranked and then it was kind of, 'cause like, let's be honest, it's since 1980, there were only gonna be so many flyers games on this list. When you look at the other teams, like the Sixers. - And especially given the fact that like, you didn't live through the 80s. - Yes, exactly. And like the Sixers went to two or three championships, one one of them, maybe four, actually. Like, the Eagles have been to three championships, one one of them, the Phillies, considering like how horrible they are historic, have been to like six World Series since 1980. - Haven't they? - 80, 83, 93, 0809, 22. - Yeah. - They've won six passes. - Yeah, that's true. - I forgot about it now, man. - They've won two of them, so like, there's just a lot more great games to choose from when you go on championship runs now. Flyers, especially in the 80s, went to the finals all the time, didn't win any of them, but they went. But so like, yeah, my first like few were ranked, but now the P8 and out of every team's like top 10, then Gargano and company kind of pick and chose the top 25 to rank all the teams together. Coming in at number 25, we talked a little bit about before, was the Flyers and Lightning Game 6 2004, premotize it in the last couple of minutes, and then Simone Gagne wins it in overtime. It was, Charlie, we've talked about this game, just in passing how it was for fans our age, up until game seven against Boston? Like the seminal moment as a Flyers fan, probably for people already. - Yeah, I was in high school at the time, and yeah, it was a freshman in high school at the time. And I remember there was like an honors convocation at my school gymnasium that night, and like I had gotten honors, so I had to go, and I remember being so mad that we were gonna miss like the first period of that game. I was live it, and like we raced back home from the Northeast Philly suburbs, where my school was, where school is, and get back for like the start of the second period. And I just, I'll never forget that the premo, the premo goal in particular, just because, and I said this on Twitter, that it's just, it might be my favorite call, my favorite hockey call ever. And I've listened to it so many times, I used to watch it in the lead up to, like when the Flyers would make the playoffs, that would be like my pump up, like I'd watch it probably like 50 times before the four game one of whatever's first round series of Flyers are in. And I just, the part of it that I love the most, the part of the call is, 'cause Gary Thorne legend, he's just the emotion, such a great play-life play guy, but Bill Clement was the color guy, and I love, as the puck is bouncing across the, oh, and he's just like, he didn't even, I didn't realize he said it. He's just like, it escaped his mouth because he's like, oh my God, it might happen. And then he gets all the way around the net to put it in, and then Gary Thorne loses his mind. And then of course, the fucking chicken dance. They got that chicken, man, that was, I love that stuff. That was incredible. And then Ganyay wins it at overtime, and we talked. I think it was, I think it was a show me and Kelly, me and Kelly and JP did. I don't think you were here. You're like, man, you know, especially that run, but you throw in the 2000 goal in the five overtime game is like, man, keep preem out, just so clutch. Simone Ganyay across like two different generations really of the team, scored some of the, I mean, the winner against Boston, the winner in this game, like a spoiler, like game seven against Boston is going to be on the list, but not even that. He also is the guy who scores the, the overtime goal in game four, that even allows game seven to get because that they're down three, oh, if they don't win that game four, and he came back from injury to score that goal. So goddamn clutch, it really like his heroics. I feel like kind of go under the radar sometimes. I've called Simone Ganyay, and I mean, I'm a little biased here because Simone Ganyay was my favorite player as a kid in the 2000s, but I've called because we've talked about how like, you know, every decade in flyers history has a player who like is that decade. And I've made the case that in the 2000s, Simone Ganyay is that guy, that he is the player of the 2000s, and I hold to that. But, and there are, because there wasn't a like, oh my God superstar who was there the entire time, but Ganyay was there through the entirety of the 2000s, and he was part of so many of the big moments. That to me, he is the player of the 2000s. One thing that I did find really funny, and I didn't know this, obviously. I was a fan at the time, and I wasn't reading everything. And even if I read it at the time, it certainly didn't stick with me. Adam Kimmelman responded, this was Monday when we posted the clip and then we ranked the 25th, and Adam Kimmelman was covering the flyers at the time. He was a beat writer, like a full-time beat writer. And he responds to the tweet saying, one thing that I'll never forget is that the day be, the morning of that game, Bob Clark gave an interview to the Inquirer, calling out Ganyay for his lack of production. And I just thought to myself like, of course, of course he did. Like, the flyers are always gonna be the flyers. They're always gonna do this shit. Of course they hired John Turdorrell. Of course, John Turdorrell scratched the captain. They've been doing this for decades. They have always been the crazy chaos organization, even dating back to like, oh yeah, it's game six. And our GM gives an interview to the Inquirer ripping one of our better players. Like, of course they did. - Forget even the content of the interview, which is of course he did. You're trailing 3-2, game six at home, Eastern Conference final. Why is the GM doing an interview? (laughing) - Shut the fuck up! - They never could stop. - They never ever-- - They never could. But like, and this game, it's first like, the case for Gagne is the player of the 2000s. He bridges so many eras. 'Cause there's the, this team. Like this era team, the post-lyn draw skies. Ronik, the Claire's still there, Wrecky's still there. But then he carries over. He plays with Forzberg in that very short, like a two year burst, post-lockout team. - Yeah, exactly. - And then that team turns over to the Richards-Carter era team. And he's still there. - Yeah, he's still a core team. - Guys, he obviously had the concussion so that that screwed things up for a bit. But he comes back and is still a really good player on those final couple years of the 2000s. - Yeah, so that was the game six flyers lightning, was number 25, and then announced today, coming in at number 15. Game four of the 2000 East semifinal flyers, pens, Primo scores in the fifth overtime. We'll get to some stuff about this game, but just, is it a little, I guess it's five over times, it's historic, like the only games in NHL history that are longer, like in 33 and 36. Like, you know, pre-World War II, I don't really know if we're, like, just not even counting. So it's like the longest game of the modern era. Is it bigger than the game six, 2004? Like, I would flip these, no? - You would, I think so. - I just think this is an iconic game. Like, this is an iconic game, not just in Philadelphia, but across the like, the hockey world. - No, whenever it's a game that everyone remembers. - Whenever a playoff game goes to like a second overtime, everyone's like, oh, get those pizzas ready, this might just be like 2000. Like, and I get that. I just think like, it definitely helped it like, and now obviously, it's not anymore, but it helped to Keith Jones was often on the broadcast and he could talk about it 'cause he got played in the friggin' game. - He played something, he played like 17 minutes total in a fuckin' five hour game. But, like, I just, I don't know. I guess just because of the historic nature of it. - I think that's the thing. - But like, there's also stuff on here. - And the Factor Flyers won it. - Yes, of course, of course. - But like, I look at number 24 on this list, Sixters Raptors, Game 7 in 2000, or in 2001, when Vince Carter makes the shot. And then at 18, it's basically the exact same game, except Kawhi takes the shot and it goes in. - Yeah, or Vince missed the shot. - Yeah, Vince missed the shot, Kawhi makes it, yeah. - Exactly. Like, I would flip those simply because like, one was good, the sixers won. - Yeah, one was good and one was bad. - But this, like, the Flyers win both games. Like, they also ultimately win the Penguin Series. They are down 2-0. The Game 3 also went to overtime. And that's like, oh, you lose that one. You fall down 3-0. Like, even if they then win 5-0, it's like, okay, well, you won in 5 over times. You're trailing 3-1, congratulations. - Yeah, we're not gonna spend too much time on the list as a whole, but I didn't even notice the Kawhi shot. 'Cause like, I'm just not a sixers guy, so that game doesn't have the same PTSD it does for die-art sixers fans. But, like, that's kind of a bold choice to put that in the top 25. Like, to me, that would be like putting the Patrick King goal in there. - Yeah. - Like, yeah, it's iconic, it's memorable, but it was for us, like, it's the worst game in history. - Like, if there was an Flyers fan. - Like, if the whole city had a base in Toronto, it should be on their list. - Oh, yeah, it should be top five. It's not top three. - Yeah, like, all the games they won in the final, and that one. - Yeah. - Like, that's that would be it. - But, yeah, I mean, the Patrick King goal, it's extremely memorable, it's iconic. They show it on replays and review packages all the time, but, like, you will never meet a Flyers fan that doesn't want to kill themselves when they are brought up of that play. - Also, number 17 is Joe Carter. - Like, are we doing Toronto's list for the-- - Yeah, right, yeah. - God damn it. - Well, no wonder I hate Toronto fans so much, man. - Why have they victimized us so gay? - I really, at least we have-- - At least we have-- - At least we have the Ronan goal, which I do not believe made the list. - That was classic. - They victimized us so bad. - Fuck it's Ronan, man. - But the game four, so we have those two games. The game six against the Lightning in the '04, and game four against the pens in 2005, over times. And it made me just think, like, there's only gonna be, I don't know, probably at most three more Flyers games on this list, probably two more. There's a real theme here in terms of Keith 3, bro. It's like two of the four biggest games in Flyers history of the last 35 years. 45 years, what, how long ago was 1980? How old am I? - It would-- - I'm 35, so yeah. - 47, 44 years? - 44 years? - 44 years. - Like, have involved huge efforts from Keith Cremos, and we just made me wanna talk about that era. 'Cause it's such a, I wanted to, it's such a forgotten, weird time. I looked at the '03 playoffs from the year before, and they played this, I remember it being the Flyers in Toronto met in a bunch of really good playoff series, not just the '04 one, but they go seven in '03, and like win game seven, like six-one against Toronto in the first round. Don't remember that at all, like, awesome stuff. It's just such a weird time in Flyers history. There's a couple of years post-lynjaws pre-2004, and like, the primo timeframe falls right in there, so going back to that five-over-time game, I wanna play the call of the goal. - Okay. - Because something I totally forgot about, much, we'll play it, and then we'll react to it, Bryn. So, play us the video, yeah, thank you. - Chips and back hands and up and penguins will change. It's ready to come out relatively soon. Let's keep primo at first. Primo comes into his life. There is Keith Primo, the much-maligned center of the Philadelphia Flyers, wins this game in the fifth-over-time. - That's real flyers go back to Philadelphia, but the series even at two games of these. - It's a incredible moment in NHL history. It is brought up that like, and not everyone really loves this dude, and it's 2000, so in January, mid-January of 2000, the Flyers trade, Rod Brendan, where we all know the trade, Rod Brendan, it's basically Brendan Moore for Keith Primo. There's some other stuff. - There's some other pieces in there, but that's the hero of the '99 A.H. All-Star game, Gene Mark Peltier. - Yeah. - But people, Keith Primo would've had to been as good as Eric Winchross for people to not hate the Brendan Moore trade. - Brendan Moore was a fan favorite, to be sure. - He's still a fan favorite. - Everybody wanted him to be the coach. - To this day, people want Brendan Moore back. It doesn't matter in what role, bring him back as the coach, the GM, let him play, who gives a shit. People love Rod Brendan Moore, and that really kind of taints it. I had forgotten, Primo doesn't play for Carolina this year. He holds out '99, 2000, and it's like, all right, he's pretty good. Fliers make the trade, sign them to a contract. It's basically like the Choncatorier's last contract. It's what they gave Primo, which is hilarious to think about. Two guys who did basically the exact same thing, making the same money 20 years apart. 15 probably, whatever. - That is wild. - And then a year later, takes over as captain. October '01, he takes over as captain. And I just remember Eric Desjardins doing an interview on WIP. I think with probably Glenn Mack now, where he's like, listen, Keith Primo was all ready to captain. I didn't resign as captain. I just said, here you go. - Yeah, it's yours. - Gave him to see off my sweater 'cause he was already him. And that's crazy to think like this guy was much maligned up until this point of the five overtime goal. And then all of a sudden he's the captain of the team. - And I would argue that he remained maligned. - Yes. - Like that's the thing that is fascinating to me about the career, the Philadelphia career of Keith Primo. Because now we talk about him and fans-- - Warrior. - We'll almost speak of him in like hushed tones, that he's everything that's good about being a flyer. And it all real, and like look, the five overtime goal is part of it because now that becomes part of his legacy. Understandably, it was an iconic goal. But it's almost entirely because of the playoff run in 2004. - 2004 100%. - Because people, and I brought this up before the show, I equate it to kind of like Pat Burrell, where Pat Burrell is now viewed as just like, yeah, everything's great, we love Pat, he's a legend. But it was in large part because of how it ended, because he is able to leave as the guy who led the parade down Broad Street. He brought the title, you know, he's at the front of it. He had the big hit after the, after the stoppage and game five, so he came through. But there were long stretches of Pat Burrell's time in Philly, where people freaking hated him. You know, he was a first overall pick, he didn't live up to expectations, he had years where he was hitting 200, the power went away a little bit. - That little three, oh three year, he had the 37 home runs in '02, we go get Jim Tomay, it's like, this fucking line up's gonna be insane, and then Burrell hits like two o' three. - Yeah, and there were long stretches of his tenure where people hated Burrell and people wanted him gone. And now it's been whitewashed as like, well, we always love Pat Burrell. And I think the same thing has happened to a degree with Keith Primo, like, in this call, it says he's much maligned, then he's captain and fans tend to blame playoff exits on the captain. Then you have the Bill Barber beauty. Now, Primo was one of the players who was like, we don't want to play for Bill Barber anymore. Mark Rucky was another. - Kelly and I always blame Mark Rucky. - But Primo was captain. - Primo's the fucking captain. - He's the captain, indeed. - Like, there were large portions of the fan base before that 2024 playoff run that did not like Keith Primo. You obviously add in the fact that he was the guy they got for Brindomorn, some people never forgave him for that. And it's wild to me. Like, it really does speak to how crazy good that playoff run was that it made an entire fan base, a lot of whom were very skeptical of him and had been for years turn into Keith Primo is everything good about the Philadelphia Flyers. And they still have that belief 20 years later. - We're gonna do a little bit more on Keith Primo, but first I gotta talk about chilling. I think our perception of Keith Primo has really chilled over the years. - Absolutely. - I mean, we have chilled out on Keith Primo. - Oh, 100%. - We have done the opposite of chill on him. We've chilled in our criticism of him. 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All right, so what the hell did I, I don't even remember. So the 04 playoff run, like the maligned part, part of what makes that 04 playoff run is that his scoring numbers, they dipped for a couple of years leading up to that. And then in 03.04, he's basically a checking center. - Yeah, he was. - He plays 54 games, seven goals, 22 points. Then the playoff start, nine goals 18, nine goals, 16 points in 18 games. Like, he basically matched his regular season scoring numbers in terms of goals surpassed them in the postseason. Like, that's part of what makes it so goddamn impressive. And just so funny to look back on that time, I'll bring up another dude, 'cause these players' careers are the ones I'm so fascinated by. If I had like the ability to make short, like Philadelphia 30 for 30s, I would wanna focus on these guys who had these amazing turnaround career arcs with their fan base. - Yeah. - Pat Burl, you mentioned, I would throw Brandon Graham in there. - Yeah. - And Keith Primo honestly fits that description, now shorter time in Philly, cut short by injuries, we didn't get him till he was like 28, 29. But that turnaround, the way we think of Primo now, it's like so much freaking different. And it just shows you what one playoff run can do. - Yeah. - 'Cause it's really one, we look back at him as this super clutch guy. It's really 04 and then one goal in 2000. And now it's, man, we haven't had a playoff performer like that since then, Danny Breyer, that's it. But Primo was also big and physical, so we love that. - And that was the thing too with that playoff run. It wasn't like, did the points and goals matter? Of course they did, that's the production. And we've seen the one goal, you know, the big one that he scored in 2004 to tie the game in game six. But it was also the way he did it. Like he was physically dominant in those games. - Yes. - There were games where in that playoff run, where he's playing through concussion. - From the opening shift, you're just like this dude on every time he hits the ice, he just cannot be denied. He's winning every puck battle. Even if he's not scoring, he's creating a dangerous chance for him or his teammates. - It was the epitome of a playoff run that passed the eye test. It passed the eye test with flying colors. He was visibly dominant almost every shift he went out there for. - And from that '04 game, something I mentioned, I don't think you were here for when I mentioned this, because it's, they go back to Tampa for game seven, and then there's the lockout, and now there's a salary cat, Flyers bringing Forsberg and Hatcher. - Right, well, we got a Gratchee. - We got to buy some guys out here. - It's the last home game as Flyers for Leclerc, Wrecki, and Roanek. And that's freaking insane. The thing like, not only is it this Epic game and this comeback and all this stuff for some game seven, like in Flyers history, it was very much the end of an era. Like then there's a lockout and there's a whole new team. - Yeah. - Like Daedra and Ann's comes back. - Yeah, Primo comes back a little bit. - Primo comes back a little bit. - And then he's done. - Yeah, and then it's like, oh yeah, you know what happens when you take the baseline test with a concussion? They let you play with a concussion, and then it keeps getting worse. Like, and that's what happened with Keith Primo. We look back at that '04 run as like, oh yeah, that was something special. He probably shouldn't even been out there, but we can look back and go, that's bad ass. It's also, he hasn't had the easiest time since then. - Yeah, yeah, it's one of those things where at the time we were less knowledgeable about the effects of concussions. And now it's like, that was great, but also maybe shouldn't have done it in retrospect, even though it's an iconic playoff run. - It's amazing. - We'll stick in my memory forever. It is funny though, you bring up a lockout element of it because even as a teenager at the time, like that was something that was very much a factor in just how important that playoff run felt. - Yeah, because anyone with a cursory understanding of the NHL at the time, and I was, I don't know, I guess I was 13, 14, 15, something like that, everyone knew that there was a chance that this was gonna be the last time we were seeing hockey for a while. It was not a secret that there was the potential for a very long work stoppage. And it just made that playoff run feel even more important because it did, there was a feeling that it was sort of the end of an era, even if we didn't quite know what that meant. It was just like, well, there really might be no tomorrow for quite a while. So all these games have even more meaning because who the hell knows the next time we're gonna have hockey to watch. - And I always look back at that '04 team like, yeah, there's some big names there, but they're all in their mid 30s, they're all playing through concussions and age and all this stuff, so many Flyers teams leading up to that underwhelmed and disappointed us. And it was like, God damn, they should've been cup contenders, they had all this talent and maybe we overrated the talent they had, but that's how it felt at the time. And the '04 team, it was like, yeah, this dude Primo who had 22 points, has 16 in the playoffs, that was the first Flyers team I can remember overachieving. And that was something that was so foreign to us. - Yeah, I just think that there's, it's kind of like the idea of, you know, yes, when you're in college, you party every weekend or, you know, if you're into that sort of thing, but there's something different about like senior week, like that final week before you graduate, it just, it has more meaning because it's about to end. - Yes. - And it just felt like that entire playoff run. - It was their last shot. - It was, it had more meaning because everyone knew that, you know, you didn't know who was gonna be gone, you didn't know what state the NHL was gonna be when it came back, but you knew that this was the end of something. And it just felt like everyone on that team with Primo, the captain leading the way, was putting everything out there because they knew that this was it on multiple levels. - Before we hit super chats, I just wanna thank our diehards for being such a big part of today's show and everything we do here at PHLY, we literally couldn't do it without the diehards. So, allphly.com, sign up, become a diehard. - Yeah. - Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. - Mint Mobile unlimited, premium wireless. Have it to get 30, 30, 30, but you get 20, 20, 20, but you get 20, 20, 20, you get 15, 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month, so. - Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. - $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees to promote eight for new customers for limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month. Slows, full turns at Mint Mobile.com. - My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing at me to this day. - Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. - We have one super chat today from Gary B. Let's see what it is. He says, "Mishka vs. Torts will have some epic battles this year. I have no doubt Torts will try and bench Matt Vay." - I'm expecting one scratch. - I guess I am, but also as much as we think of, and this kind of came up in the Liberty Line article as well. While Tortorilla is so like, you have to play my way. You have to do things a certain way. We need to be hard back checking. We have to be blocking shots. We have to be responsible defensively. Structure, structure, structure. He knows that they can't score. As much as we have talked about the way, Morgan Frost needs to be tougher. He needs to do this and that. Really, the biggest problem with Morgan Frost is that he's just a 40-point player. - At least that was the biggest problem this year. - This year. - This year. - And this is where he got scratched. He got scratched 10 times this year. - 'Cause in the first two, three months of the year, we would talk to Torts and he would say, "Honestly, Morgan's done a great job rounding out his game. I love what he's doing away from the pot." He's worked really hard to improve that area of his game. I have no issues with that anymore. But his role is to score. And if he's not scoring, I can't justify playing him over guys that bring other things to the table. You're right that Mitch Koff in theory can score a lot more than Morgan Frost go. - Yeah. - Or maybe it could be the reason why Morgan Frost scores a lot more. - Just like, yeah, I'm expecting it. At some point, he gets scratched. - I just think there's an element with Torts. - But they're like, he has to show that he's got the biggest dick in the room. Like, seriously, he does, that's his thing. I'm sure that partially played into the guitar game thing. Where he has to show, he might be the captain, but I'm the captain of the ship, really. - Yeah, I'm expecting it, but I also think it might be smoother than we're thinking. - I hope there is a possibility it's smoother than we're thinking. There's gonna be bumps, but it might not be the perfect storm out there. Like, that's all I'm saying. - Yes. - I would love it if Mape Michkop is not scratched even a single time, and John Tortorello speaks of him the same way he speaks of Artemi Panera. I would love that. - Yes. - That would be the best case scenario, and that while Tortorello pushes him and demands more of him, Mape Michkop does not rebel. He rises to the challenge and gradually improves his defensive game and his off-puck intensity and things like that, to the point where John Tortorello looks at him and says, you know, this is the guy that does everything I wanted to do. He's no acates, but with 20 times more offensive potential. With love that, that'd be amazing. - Since we are in OT already, I wanna hit the mailbag in the day. It's just, someday we're gonna go under an hour. It's gonna happen. Today is not that day. Mailbag in the day. - It's not this day. - Mailbag in the day when a show is under an hour, but there's not mailbag in the day question from John Bannon Jr. Do you think Danny is or has inquired about Rucker Magrority, or you think he is more likely going to another team? If not, Flyers, what team do you think gets him? I hope pens or Boston don't. - This is a good mailbag question because it's a very quick one to answer. - Yeah. - Rucker Magrority's best friend is Kader Gautier. I do not think the Flyers have seriously inquired about someone whose best friend absolutely hates them. - And he's doing it. He's doing exactly what Kader did. He has requested a trade from Winnipeg. Now, like, if the thing wasn't that personal with Kader, no, it's not happening. - I would be blown away. - It's not happening, right? - I mean, we literally just saw a couple of weeks ago, and I don't think it was the only reason, but I do suspect it played a role that one of the reasons why maybe they weren't super high on Zebooium is because he has the same agent as Kader Gautier. If they're that scared of his agent, imagine how scared they are of, like, him being best friends with the guy. Some day, details are gonna come out about exactly what happened, and I'm very much looking forward to that, didn't I? And how they've responded since. 'Cause we paint everything with the, with the Kader lens. Like, I wonder how much they think about it. - Yeah. - It's very interesting. - It'll be a, look, I would hope that the Flyers, in all series, at the very least talked about it, and are like, okay, you know, can we find out via back channels if McGrory would have any interest in signing with us? Maybe they, they called up Winnipeg and said, you know, just, just in theory, what would it cost? What players do you have interest in? I would like to think they at least explored the possibility to a slight degree, but I also think that the, the Gautier connection is way too strong for them to actually seriously pursue it. Furthermore, based on what we heard about Kader, not exactly loving the development path they laid out for him, maybe they didn't use the right words, maybe he just didn't like it, maybe he just never wanted to play here, whatever. Scott Billack of the Winnipeg Sun reported, McGrory disagreed with the Jets development path that had him starting in the AHL, before advancing to the NHL. Now, maybe he's so good the Flyers go, fuck that. Now you'll play here, but they have said, they do the same thing. They do the same thing, yeah. They do the same thing. They do the same thing, yeah. We very much believe in you dominating a level before moving up to the next one. Well, maybe he'd have the same path here and wouldn't be all that happy with it. Yeah. All right. I would assume that anyone who trades for adversity is going to have to promise him that he's immediately going to the NHL because it seems like that was the primary reason why he runs out on the first place. Also, it's Winnipeg. It's Winnipeg. No, it wants to play Winnipeg. That's the thing I think. We're living in Winnipeg. As much as maybe there might be an issue with Philly, like, he's got to prefer this over. Winnipeg, you know? That's all. All right. Anyway, that is all the time we have for you on PHLI Flyers today. Thank you all for listening. Thank you for hanging out. If you haven't already, hit that subscribe button. Follow us right here on YouTube. Never miss a live show. Make sure you hit that reminder bell. We'll be back here at one o'clock again tomorrow where we're probably going to talk a little bit more about the top 10 games on my list for the Flyers and which ones may or may not make the cut as we finish up PHLI rank week over the next couple of days here. All right. Follow us on Twitter @PHLI_FLIRES. Follow the podcast, PHLI Flyers, wherever you get those. That's everything I got to sell you. My name's Bill Matts. That's Charlie O'Connor. Until tomorrow, stay loose and sexy, Philly. (upbeat music) ♪ You all sitting like the mayor ♪ (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
