"My dad works in B2B marketing. "He came by my school for career day "and said he was a big row as man. "Then he told everyone how much he loved "calculating his return on ad spend. "My friend's still laughing me to this day." - Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. Linked in, the place to be, to be. - Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. - Mint Mobile unlimited. Premium wireless. Have it to get 30, 30, baby get 30, baby get 20, 20, baby get 20, baby get 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month. So. - Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. - $45 up for three months plus taxes and fees. Promoting for new customers for limited time. Limited more than 40 gigabytes per month slows. Full turns at mintmobile.com. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey everybody, how you doing? - Well, that's good. - Welcome to PHLY Flyers presented by Moritz CS, check out Moritz CS.com/PHLY to start your home buying process today. Company NMLS ID number 146476. My name is Bill Matz. I'm your director of fun and games for the evening, joining me today. And as always, this is Philadelphia's number one hockey beat reporter, Charlie O'Connor. How you doing on this fine Tuesday Chuck? - Bill, I'm doing great because with the submission of this article this morning, the busy part of my off season I believe is done. As long as the Flyers don't do anything, which I guess they could do, but this is, there's like a two and a half week burst from like the week before the draft, through the week of the draft, through the Ph.D.C. - The 3-H-C - A development camp where it's as busy as my year gets, even in comparison to the regular season. And with that submission of that article, it's done. And now I can kind of fall back, I'm obviously still gonna be doing the show on a daily basis. - Yeah. - But I can fall back in so you know, one to two articles a week and actually enjoy my summer. So personally, I'm in a great mood. - And that's like the tweet I put out to, you know, we're going live, it's just like debating Danny. What does it mean if the Flyers are done for the off season? I'll tell you what it means for Charlie. He's in a much better mood. - Hell yeah. Is everyone gonna be happy if he's done? No, but, and like just when you look at, yeah, we're busy during the season, but it's so routine oriented. - Exactly. - Like game, like you cover morning skate, pracked, whatever. Like, that's it, pretty much. In season trades, yeah, around the deadline and stuff. And maybe the cutter goatier situation pops up. - Right. - And you're busy for a day or two. - Right. - But it's just so regimented. And this is shit's happening non-stop. And also they could just, hey, Mitchkopf signed as ELC any time. - Exactly, yeah. - Like those sorts of breaking things. So Charlie at least, maybe, you know, as people covering the floor. - Yeah, we want them to do stuff, but that time has passed now. - Yeah. - You're done. - It feels good. - Charlie is, he's in a good mood today, and I think we all are, but that's kind of the crux of today's show is gonna be, what does it mean if they're done? Are they done? What have they done thus far? What does it mean for the rebuild, et cetera? But just a couple of things I wanted to get to before we get to that. First thing that excited me that I saw today, everyone that watches the show knows I wear a lot of hats. - You sure do. - Literally, I have to do that much. I wear hats literally every single day, different hats, and there was an announcement today, the National Hockey League, a new era cap, the International Sports and Lifestyle Brand, announced a multi-year agreement that grants new era rights to produce and distribute globally, headwear and apparel for the league, and it's 32 teams. The agreement begins with the 2024-25 NHL season. - You really talked about this. - We're finally getting hats. I own, I think I have like 24 fillies hats in my rotation. I've probably bought like two baseball style flyers hats in the last 10 years. I want to buy lots of flyers hats. They all stink, and we all know how I feel about the main apparel provider of the NHL. Now, the brand of which I buy all my fillies hats, we'll be making flyers hats. I'm very excited. If you're a hat person, I think you're excited too. But there's an announcement about gear that's even bigger than that for all flyers fans. - Indeed. - The flyers tweeted this out a little bit ago. They're going to be opening the store. The Wells Fargo Center store is going to be opened. It's usually only open on game days, but they're going to have some store hours today, Wednesday and Thursday. And it's because Mitch Gopf gear is in. - Yeah. - And this is basically confirms that number 39 will be his number when he arrives here. The ELC is signed. He'll be playing for the team this year. There's a little, okay, let's just wait and see. Make sure he's going to be wearing 39. It appears he is. That is the, that is the number on his jersey and the advertisement. And yeah, like there's a tippet, a suresy there. There's a hat. When you click the link, it's like, we have Mitch Kopf has, we have Mitch Kopf jerseys. We have Mitch Kopf t-shirts. We have pucks with his face. We have stickers and it's all number 39. - They know what the people want. - They're not, they're opening the store not to sell Owen tippet shirts. - No. - Listen, I like Owen tippet a lot. I might go and get myself a suresy of his, but this is all about Matt Vey, Mitch Kopf. And confirming the number 39, I feel good for all the people who pre-bought all their shit with 39 on it. You now are vindicated. That is the number he's wearing, but. - You would have to assume that at the very least. They asked Mitch Kopf's agent at the least and said, "Hey, is he playing to keep 39?" And got the thumbs up and now it's all right, by all of the jerseys people. - I'm happy they're not just like, it's not like the flashiest of numbers. It's not like it's 93 or something. But like, no, you're a rookie, you get a rookie number. - I like it because it's distinctive. - It is different. - And it's not a jersey number that necessarily has a player, like a very famous player associated. So I dig it. It's a number that he can make his own. - Oh, Charlie, there is one player associated with this number that is from an all time moment in our time together. But Francie in LA, once I tweeted out like, okay, it looks like they confirmed number 39 here. Francie in LA replied with a screenshot from a rookie reference of all the number 39 in flyers history. - Oh, Tyrell Goldberg. - I thought you referred a Nate Great Nate Prosser. - Nate Prosser. Oh, Goldberg. - Yeah, well, there's a couple of greats on here. Jeff Lank, Phantom's great who was the, like for the Phantom's just the defenseman that everyone chose to dump on. The way we have, there's always a defenseman for the flyers that we just point out and go, he's our whipping boy. - This is true. - And Jeff Lank was that for the Phantom's. Like the team never lost, but somehow we all still hated Jeff Lank. But when he got called up, were 39. Mark Alt, who I'm still not totally convinced is a real person. - For all to make sure he was just computer generated. Guy who showed up on the Phantom's roster when he got his call up were 39. And Tyrell Goldberg, who when I called for his call up, when we first started the show, 2019. So it wasn't that long ago, I guess, but I demanded Tyrell Goldberg get his shot and gets the call up. - It's 10 minutes after we got done recording the show. - As soon as we finished the show, they called them off. - We had even left the studio. - We were still there. - And we get the email saying that Tyrell Goldberg had been recalled. - It was the most, 'cause we spent the entire show saying how dumb of an idea it was, but you were saying, I don't care, it would be funny. - They weren't tough enough. They needed to call up in a force and enforcer. And they went about and did it. And honestly, it's gonna be tough for Mavé Mishkov to live up to the debut of Tyrell Goldberg. First shift lays a big hit in the offensive zone. Skylon steals the puck, scores a goal. - I don't know. - I see the funny thing. - One of the great, Bill, I have completely erased that from my memory banks, the fact that you remember it. It says a lot about you. - 'Cause I've never felt more right. Like it was just one of those times that, like, look, the impact he had on this game. He immediately laid a hit that led to a goal. - I'm just saying I was right, but the number 39 judging by this list, it's very much one he can make his own. You know, like number 17 is a great number in flyers history that like, I associate with other dudes. - Exactly, yeah. - Like, there's numbers on the way. - Yeah, to be sure. - 48, they slap on Frost 'cause he's okay. You're the next Brier. And it's like, is he though? - Is he though? - Yeah, and we're still, we're still having this debate. - Obviously, they're not gonna give out Clark's number of barbers, barbers, barbers. - Yeah, we're tired. - But there are numbers that are not retired, but still have players, have notable players franchise history associated with the number 39. It can be Mitch Koff's number. He can make that his own. I saw somebody in the comment section saying that Dominic Hoshik was 39. That's funny because like, I don't remember Goli's numbers. I just don't. - They all wear the same number. - Well, it's just, you know, you don't see them. Like you don't see them. - Yeah, they're back so turned. - You don't see the number that often. - You see the front of the goal. - Yeah, like I know players numbers because that's how you distinguish players on the ice. The goalie, if anything, I know them. Like I vividly remember Dominic Hoshik's mask because he had the old school mask. But I do, I don't remember what his number was. - They just wasn't important to me. - Their setups are very much what you see. Like the number, like, and that's very much, like, yeah. And that's kind of one of the things I like about it though, is like I associate numbers in the 30s with goalies. - Right. - 39, 33, whatever it might be. And that is- - It's unique. - Yeah, like he's a goal scoring winger and he's going to like try the Michigan twice a week. That's different. So I'm appreciative of that. It's a little, it's grown on me. I was like, I don't know. Like, I feel like he needs something a little flashier but that's going to be his style of play and he can make it his own. I'm cool with that. It's number 39 for Maffi Mitchkov. If you want to head down to the store, check out the Flyers Twitter. Get your gear, man. Or, you know, go to phlylocker.com and get your mad Russian stuff. - Yeah, another podcast has thrown their hat into the ring and this might be the best one in the bunch. I promised I would wear this the first day they sent it to me. The meat and potatoes podcast sent me their version of the bitch ramen. - It's just, it's just fabric pens. - Yeah. - I told them I would wear it the first day I had it. It's a large. - Oh, man. That's- - Thank you. - That's a stretch, literally. - Honestly, that's, I showed it to Ava and she was like, well, I mean, if they sent you a large, then like, that's flattering. It is. Like, I look like your sack of potatoes on the show, but they were like, okay, yeah, a large. Let's send them that. So I can't wear it, but thank you very much. The meat and potatoes podcast throws their hat into the ring for the best of the Mitchkov main hit T-shirts. And now let's get to the main topic of today now that we've gotten through the nonsense, Charlie. You published an article just a few hours ago. - Sure did. - An op-ed of sorts. - Yeah. - I like to do this at the end of each off season. Look, to be clear, 'cause I know we're gonna get some people in the comments saying this. I've had some people on Twitter saying this. The off season in theory is not over. Now, Danny Breyer could theoretically make some big moves in July, in August, in the lead up to camp. It's not necessarily true that he's done, done. However, the way the NHL off season tends to work is that there is a busy part of the off season and then everybody goes to their cabins or beach houses. And Breyer very pointedly said, on July 1st, basically like, if I haven't done anything over the next week, there's a good chance this is gonna be our roster going into training camp. It's been eight days. You're already seeing the activity across the NHL dying down. There's only a few, like, who's the best free agent available? Daniel Sprour, JVR. Like, the free agency group is pretty much done. There are a few contract situations that need to be resolved. I'm thinking, like, the nature's contract. Still needs to be resolved. There's still, you know, arbitration hearings that are coming. So there are a few more shoes that probably have to drop. But we're reaching the point where the GMs are about to kind of call it a summer and spend some time with their family for the next eight, you know, six to eight weeks. So while it's not certain the off season is over, we're right at that point where it's very plausible that Danny Breyer is largely done. All of his restrictive free agents are re-signed. They have a path to being cap compliant, even if it's not necessarily being below the $88 million cap ceiling, they can use long-term injured reserve. They're not at the point where they are in cap hell. This could be it. And that's why I wrote my op-ed, basically breaking down my thoughts on the possibility of this being it for the 2024 off season. Yeah, and just, like, bring up cap friendly, which still exists. Like, you see them, they're the 800K, 830K or so over the cap, LTIR, like you said, that's their-- Yeah, you've got Ryan Ellis, you got Ryan Johansson. You have those two, you just LTIR one or both of them, boom, problem solved. And then you just look at what the roster is. With Johansson, they have 14 forwards with Risteline and who still listed on IR, but you add him to the six defenseman, they have signed seven. Okay, that's what we're going with until they, you know, add it or whatever makes the team. Yeah, they got their two goal is. They have their two goal is, this is what the roster is going to be unless Breair makes a later off-season trade, a hockey trade. Like, it's going to have to be a roster guy going out if you're going to bring anyone in over the cap. Yeah. So it feels as if they're done. I'm not ruling it out entirely, that's like-- But I think we're going to approach the show as if they're done, because again, there are two strong pieces of evidence that imply that they very well could be done. He said they probably are. He said they're probably done after a week, after July 1st, we've gone through eight days. And number two, the NHL off-season is dying down as well. You look at like the NHL trade tracker. And it's like, when was the last one? Oh, a few days ago, like there's all this activities. Yeah, that's it. Everyone's, they've changed their number. Everyone will pick up the phones again, you know, at the beginning of training here. Caparones of the cabin, Bobby Margarita is drinking those marks. Yeah, he's done. He only works so many months of the year. He's done with it. And when he's done, that's how you kind of know. So I want to just start with the-- Basically, the conclusion of your article today, and to read the entire thing, it's very good. It's always go to allphly.com. And this one is free. This one's free for all. Yes. So check it out, allphly.com. And this is the last few sentences of your article, Charlie. Hope must now be pinned on significant internal development, a massive 2025 draft haul, or Breair in the front office, proving able to get the big wins in the trade market that they couldn't secure this summer. That's far from impossible. The rebuild is not certain to fail. But assuming Breair does indeed remain quiet over the remainder of this off season, the degree of difficulty just went up a few more notches. And that's really where I want to start. They punted the next year's draft, basically. They traded back one spot, picked up a third round pick for next year in so doing, which they used to get Spencer Gill. And then they traded that to move up to get Spencer Gill. They didn't even require a finder's fee, like a transaction fee in the Edmonton trade. It was just like, yeah, here's pick 32. Give us your first next year. It will be no worse than 32, you know, like worst case scenario. We swapped out first round picks. And if you think it's a deeper draft, you trade it up no matter what, but it's a year away. Right. By doing all this, you won't-- OK, let's kind of just wait till next off season when so much money comes off the books. We have a better understanding of what some of our young guys are. What do you just make of this decision? Like, they're OK, it's going to take a while. We need to be more patient. We just didn't like the class this year. We swung and missed on so many things that we kind of have to regroup and recalibrate what our expectations are for how long this is going to take. How do you think they're feeling right now? Well, the one thing I want to make clear, and I hope that my article didn't imply this, I don't think the Flyers had a terrible off season. They obviously get Mitch Cough over, which is huge. That's an enormous win, and they didn't make any mistakes. I don't think they did anything extremely foolish. Maybe I wouldn't have given Hathaway an extra two more years, but whatever, he's a really good fourth-liner. You just hope he ages well, and they think he's going to age well until he's 35, whatever. I don't think they made any major mistakes. It's just that they didn't really do anything. And the argument I make in the piece is that if this rebuild is going to work, because they're not tanking, they've made it clear that they're not tanking, so that they're not going to be stockpiling the pipeline with three or four top five picks. They obviously got Mitch Cough. They lucked out that he slipped to seven. They took advantage, props to them. So you have one top five pick caliber talent. You're hoping that Jamie Drysale can be two, but the jury is out on what you can develop him into. Because you're not tanking, you need to get the high-end talent that you've made clear that you need elsewhere. You need to make trades. You need to turn your existing guys into better players. But primarily, you need to make trades, and maybe you need to sign guys. Now, they made it clear they weren't going to sign guys this summer. That makes sense. They don't have the cap space, totally fair. They didn't really make any trades. Now, that doesn't mean they can't make trades in the next couple of years. They can't address this problem in the future. They very well could. And if they do, this offseason doesn't look bad at all. It just looks like them being patient and waiting for the right trade. The potential issue, though, and why I say that it does increase the degree of difficulty is that now there's a lot pinned on next offseason. Now you've got three first round picks, three second round picks. And you have the knowledge. You didn't really do anything in 2024. I just think this does put more added pressure on Breair and the front office to make 2025 the big defining rebuild offseason. And they could do it, but it just puts a lot on that summer. And they could have made their job a little bit less taxing for next year had they been able to work at a deal for this year. And it's not like it would be one thing if Breair literally just sat on his hands and wasn't involved in trying to do things this summer. He tried to move up a lot. He was rumored to be involved with a lot of potential trades. He straight up said on July 1st, I got some conversation I'm having, but if nothing comes to fruition in a week or so, probably isn't going to happen for training camp. So he's been open that they're trying to do stuff. So he thinks they need to do stuff. They just didn't do stuff. Now, if they've said we think we need to do stuff by their words and their actions and they haven't done stuff, that means that they're going to do stuff at a future date. They just missed an opportunity to do it now. And I think that is disappointing. And it's also a bit, I wouldn't say concerning. That's a bit too harsh of a word. But it just makes it so they really need to nail next summer. They absolutely do. And for you to nail this summer-- Excellent setup, Charlie. Hey, I want to just take a quick second here and tell to you about the right aid refreshary. That's right. We're headed to right aid. 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I wear my Shady Rays every day, forgot mine in my backpack to wear during the read today. That's my bad Shady Rays, but make sure you check out all the different styles they have. I'm a big fan of the Tangled Free Aviators. It's tough, tough. You go into Wawa, put the shades up on your head, you take them off. Ah, man, they're all tangled in my hair. Not with the Tangled Free option. Go to shadyrays.com, use code PHLY. Get that 35% off. All right, back to the topic at hand here, Charlie. I'm curious where you stand about this off season, because it seems like based on the shows I've been on with you and also the shows I watched that I wasn't on with you, you're very much on the fence about whether you are okay with it or not okay with it. I, what I've been saying since really last years, I think this is gonna take longer than they let on at the beginning. And this is kind of like, we gotta figure some shit out first. And they're still in the, they're still very much in the figuring stuff out process. I think the buy out of Cam Atkinson, which opened up that top nine spot. We went over what the top nine is most likely gonna be yesterday. And there's a lot of question marks. Like, all right, Tyson Forster. We really liked what we saw out of him, especially in the second half of the season. Does he take another step? Is he a potential top line player? Like because of his defense and the offense that he scored goals, absolutely. But because of his two-way play, can you put him on a top line to be a pair with Maffee Mishkov? They find that out this year. Bobby Brink, second round pick. We liked what we saw out of him in the first half, then he had to fall off, he had the demotion, kind of a rocky second half last year. Got benched in that final game of the season, last 30 minutes. What do we have in Bobby Brink? Is he part of this thing? All right, figure that out. Morgan Frost, can we finally get an answer in the Morgan Frost question? And then the bigger, like the longer term stuff, Sean Katori, we have no freaking idea. Is Owen Tippett a 40 goal score down the line, or is he kind of just gonna be this JVR-ish production? 28 goals, that's great, you need 28 goal scores. But is that it, or is there more? There's a lot to figure out. And if this year is just like, we're gonna figure this stuff out, especially now that Mishkov is coming over. I do have a little bit more patience for this plan, if it's like, we're gonna throw Mishkov out there, and we're gonna see what works with him, 'cause if he is the guy, if he's the number one prospect that we're gonna have, the superstar of this team, we need to build around him. We need to figure out what works, and what doesn't, who has chemistry with him, what do we need to maximize him? So we're gonna throw out these players with him this year, we're gonna figure out what works with him. I have more time for this plan because he's coming over early. It's not a hypothetical. Okay, we gotta set all this up, and then we drop him in, and boom, we're good to go. No, we're gonna figure it out with him on the ice. That works for me, but God damn, man. Outside of Mishkov, it's the exact same team as last year, minus Sean Walker, who, at this time last year, we didn't know who he was, you know? We all grew to really appreciate what Sean Walker brought to us, but this time last year, he wasn't on the radar. He was like, oh, he got thrown in as a captain, well, along with Cal Peterson. We thought of those two as the same thing. Same team coming back doesn't really excite me for what's gonna happen outside of, okay, we did get some positive signs out of the dudes I mentioned, and I wanna see them more, but I think outside of those couple of dudes, the pieces that are going to be on this next great flyers team that we've mentioned ain't here yet, and they know it. They need to do something to get those guys when there is-- - And they just haven't yet. - Yeah, they just haven't. - Aside from Mitch Koff, obviously. - And of course, some players that are on this team are realistic. - Yeah, there are some play. - There's a good chance. - There's a lot of under 25, guys, on this team. - Yeah, there's a real good chance Jamie Drysdale lives up to the billing of when they traded for him. There's a real good chance Tyson Forster, who, yeah, got drafted in, what, 20 overall, I think? - He's in the 20s, yeah. - Something like that. - Early 20s. - He outperforms his draft placement. You know, looked like a hell of a pick last year, but Jett Luchenko is not gonna be the one see of this team. - It seems unlikely. - It's possible, but it seems unlikely. - But they need us, look at the list of centers we went through yesterday. Like Morgan Frost, who the coach hates, Shonkatorier, who might be cooked, Ryan Poehling, who's a nice 4C, and Scott Walton, who I guess is never getting traded, but is a winger, like, he's a winger who plays center 'cause no one else can take face-offs. Like, I just like, they have none of these guys. They needed Luchenko, regardless of whether he is, he's gonna be one see or not, but he doesn't fill that role, I don't think, unless he goes nuts in the next couple of years. - I mean, it's always possible. Guys exceed draft expectations, but that can't be the assumption. - Yeah. - I think, you know, and what you spoke to about- - They wouldn't have tried to trade up if they were like, "Oh yeah, Luchenko." - Exactly. - They can get this guy at the place. - They wouldn't have tried to trade up, they wouldn't have been involved in as many trade talks as they were if they didn't feel like they needed things. So they clearly do think they need things. It is interesting that you bring up the idea of maybe this year being another evaluation year because, and I say this in the article, Danny's decision to enlarge part punt this off season, it will be validated if you see this season, which is not out of the wrong possibility, you see, you know, one, two, three of the under 25 guys take big steps forward because right now, we look at this roster and we say, okay, Mitch cough, we're hoping he's the guy. Connect me is a second tier guy, he's not a superstar, but he's like, he's probably of like the, you know, and obviously from a number of sample, he's not at his level, but also it's inflated. He's of like the Zach Hyman variety, where, you know, can't be your best player, probably can't be your second best player. - Playing with some great players. - But he's in that core and he's one of the top guys on a team that got to the Cup final and almost won it. Beyond those two, he don't really have top of the lineup guys. However, let's say Joel Faraby, who is a guy who a lot of people wanted to be traded. Let's say Joel Faraby takes a leap this upcoming season and scores 85 points. And let's say that Morgan Frost clicks with Mitch cough and finishes with 80 points because he's the, he takes a jump into being a clear cut top six center and a high end point producer. Those kinds of the Jamie Drysdale becomes Sean Walker, but better. Suddenly you look at the roster and it has more talent than it appears to have right now. And maybe they don't need to go out and take the big swings. It seems like they might need to take right now. That would validate Danny's patience, especially given the fact that, you know, guys like Tippett and Drysdale and Faraby, those are the kinds of guys that you probably would have had to trade in a hockey trade to satisfy the fans who wanted them to do things. Because again, they have to do things if they're not drafting in the top five in the top 10 every year. So I get it, but that would validate the patience. The thing is that it's not a foregone conclusion. We don't know. That's something we'll have to wait and see on, but you could interpret this relatively patient off season as a vote of confidence and an endorsement for the under 25 guys already on the roster and their belief that one or more of those guys maybe can't reach Mitch cough levels. I don't think that's reasonable, but if two or three of them reach current Travis Connectney levels, suddenly maybe you don't need to fill as many pieces and maybe that is part of the thought process. It is, however, a leap of faith. You're banking on internal development to solve the high end talent problem. You might be right, but it's not a guarantee. - And that's the, like, I keep bringing up Tyson Forster 'cause to me, he's, like, the perfect left wing to play with Matthew Mitch Cobb, him, them both playing on their off wings. Like, they're great one time options for each other. I love that so much, but first 21 games last year, one goal for Forster. Final 56 games, he scored at a 28 goal pace. If that's who he is, who he was in the final 56 games, and there's still some good slumps in there. - Yeah, with the fantastic underlying metrics too. With those metrics, if he all of a sudden becomes a 28 goal score rather than 20, that's a big jump. That's a hell of a jump to get to 28, 30 goals, suddenly find out more about him, and it is okay. So he can be that TK. If Forster, if a tippet makes that jump we were expecting this year, it's like, okay, now you're getting surplus value on that contract rather than it being, it's about what he's worth. He's getting paid about what he's worth. Oh, that's the way he's in the contract. - Yeah, suddenly he's a 40 goal, 80 point a year guy, and it's like, holy shit, yeah, he's a core guy. He's that second tier down below Mitchkoff who can be the support star that he needs. But again, none of this is, these are all-- - It's all theoretical, this is all hope, not certainty. - And I think it also like, even if a Farrabi or a Frost, they're still kind of lukewarm on them, but if they have the breakout, suddenly a hockey trade with those guys becomes more palatable. Like a team, for us, it's like, all right, what can you really get for Joel Farrabi, and why would I trade him with his value at the lowest possible point? - I don't think it's at the lowest possible point, but-- - It was lower when he was injured, but like-- - Yeah, he had a good year, he finished the year. - He finished the year on a bad stretch to be sure. - He had a good year, not a great year, but if I don't wanna trade him at that point, like I wanna trade him when he becomes a 30 goal scorer. Like that's, you get more in return. So I get it, like you stocked up your ammo, whether it's draft picks, or you use those as capital to get something else. And these players who, all right, they had good years, what happens if they have great years, suddenly we can fill those holes by trading some of those guys and not giving up our draft capital, 'cause this is a long-term process. We are looking at three years down the line now and Mitch Komp isn't his prime, that's when we're gonna be competing. - The flip side of that though, and the reason why I don't, like, well, look, if two or three, if say Tyson Forrester pops off next year, 35 goals, 75 points, sterling underlying metrics, Cam York starts scoring, and suddenly you're like, "Yo, this guy's a top pair of defenseman." If, you know, Owen Tippett breaks out the 40 goals, then suddenly you've got that tier of secondary stars, below Mitch Koff, and then boom, you don't need to make hockey trades. You don't need to trade draft picks for high-end players. That's all possible. But what gives me pause and what always brings me back is that they clearly aren't fully confident in that if they spent a lot of this offseason trying to make moves. Because if they were fully confident that all of these guys are gonna pop off and all of our solutions are here internally, then they wouldn't have spent the week before the draft trying everything they could do to move up. They wouldn't be involved in all these trade talks. It's like they know they need to do stuff. Now, could the problem solve itself and might they not have to do any of this stuff? Sure, that's possible. Maybe the flyers will finally get a little bit of luck because they fix their development program because they have coaches like Brad Shaw who can develop these guys. Maybe they've set up their culture and their organization so that they can get some of those lucky breaks that other organizations get. But they clearly aren't banking on that because they're trying to get talent elsewhere and the fact that they didn't, it's concerning because it means that they're probably going to have to do it over the next couple of years if this whole thing is gonna work and they just wasted an offseason. They had an offseason of opportunities to do things and they didn't do 'em. And again, not the end of the world. They could still do them next offseason or 2026 or whatever but this was an opportunity and it was an opportunity missed and one of the critiques I did get and it's a fair one which I note in the article is the idea of like and you pointed it out, this idea of this is gonna take longer than we think. And maybe that's the case. Maybe the flyers plan is okay, we're gonna stay competitive but we're gonna stockpile assets in the meantime for the next two, three years. We're gonna draft a lot of prospects. We're gonna build up the pipeline and then like when Mitch Koff is 24 and really in his prime that's when we're really gonna go. And you know what, if that is the plan, that's a reasonable one. I don't necessarily hate that plan but the one wrench that you throw into that and this is the issue is if your plan is to be patient and not really go for it and wait on moves because you don't need to do anything, you can't resign Travis Connect. You cannot. Like the idea of them very much being interested in resigning Travis Connect me, it only makes sense if you are looking to turn the corner relatively soon. That doesn't have to be this year. The Connect Knee contract would not kick in until 2025, 2026. I'll even give them until 2026. I'll give them a year of Connect Knee on his new contract, his new big seven, eight year big money contract. I'll give them that but you can't essentially do the slow and steady patient process for the first three, four years of Connect Knee's contract because then by the time you're ready to turn the jets on then Connect Knee's contract is a bad contract. You wasted the good part of Connect Knee's contract by being too safe. Now, if you were to say we're trading Connect Knee because he doesn't fit the timeline, then I'm all for a slow and steady. We don't need to do anything. You can wait for the moves to arise but if you are resigning Travis Connect Knee and by all accounts it seems like they want to, you are implying that you think you can turn the corner pretty quickly because otherwise resigning him doesn't make any fricking sense. - No and that's something we've been talking about really since they traded the 30 second pick. You were in Vegas for the draft. I was doing the shows with Kelly and I was like, "All right, pump to next year. You think all this makes sense. You're going to have more money open up over the next two years. You think next year's draft is better. They clearly just didn't like this draft. - Not that much. - They liked certain guys. - They liked a couple of guys and they targeted some guys and they got those players but for the most part they were like, "You know what, next year's better. We like next year's draft." If everything is about the 2025 and 2026 off seasons when money comes off the books, you like the trash but whatever, how does it make any sense in the world to resign Travis? And you can give me the Brad Marsh and shit all you want. I don't know. Is he that good? I like Travis Connect Knee a whole lot. Is he Brad Marsh and good? Do you see this guy who's going to go to the Hall of Fame? - Yeah, it's tough. - Listen, that's partially named recognition. He's been on a team that's been a contender for 14 years but like, nobody ages that way. You were pointing to an outlier and going, that's going to be him. Can you run an organization based on outliers hoping crossing your fingers that this dude at 34 years old is going to be Claude Giroux still? Like, I don't see it. And I've made the point that I think Travis Connect is because you are of the opinion you're like, I don't even know if Connect Knee is that good. I think there are a lot of commenters we have who are skeptical that Connect Knee is worth the contract he's asking for. - Yes! - I'm of the opinion that I think he is. What I'm skeptical of is whether the flier should be the team that gives it to him because if you give a non-elite player, a really good player but a non-elite, non-star level player, seven, eight years worth eight plus milk. The implicit assumption by giving him that contract is. Okay, first half of the deal, we're going to get value. He's probably going to deliver more than what his cap is because he's a real good player and he's still in his prime. We're going to hurt the final two, three, maybe even four years of the deal. But it's okay because we're going for it. Like I think of like the TJ OSHA contract that he signed with Washington. They were going for it. So you know what, yes, signed TJ OSHA to a massive contract because we can take advantage of those early years because we're going for a cup. That is a great comparison. And boom, that makes sense. And you know what they're dealing with now? He's cooked and it's fine because they want the cup and they were contenders. But if the fliers are not going to be contenders for those first three, four, five years of the deal, then it makes no sense. And the only way they have a chance to be contenders is if they make some moves and they add some talent to the organization in the next, this off season, next off season, maybe the 2026 off season. And now you didn't do anything this off season. So now you're running out of time. I would be willing to grant the fliers a lot more patience for their rebuild if they trade a connecting. But it doesn't seem like they want to do that. So I have to say that if you are locking yourself into a 28 year old for eight plus million year for eight years, then you need to have some urgency because otherwise it doesn't make any sense that you're trying to sign him in the first place. What we're talking about right now is making smart financial decisions. And that's one of the great things that our friends at Truemark Financial can help you do. You know, I've been talking to you about how easy it is to switch from a big bank to a credit union like Truemark. I've been talking about the ownership structure, how banks, there are for-profit institutions that their goal is to make money for their shareholders while credit unions, they're here for you because they're owned by their members. 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Well, the highest quality jobs, the highest quality candidates, no matter what side of the aisle you're on, you gotta go to Indeed and listeners of the show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to get jobs more visibility and indeed.com/allcity. Just go to Indeed.com/allcity right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast, indeed.com/allcity terms and auditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. And that's the, I guess, where we're going with this, Charlie. Is the fact that Connect Me isn't done yet? Just kind of, hey man, let's circle back up a camp. Let's circle back up a week before camp figure this thing out because everyone wants to go on vacation. It's July now, or is it Danny looking at this thing and going, it doesn't make sense. I love him, it doesn't make sense. Well, it's abundantly clear that the reason why they haven't agreed to a deal yet is because Connect Me is asking for more than the flyers we're willing to get. Otherwise, they would have agreed to a deal because both sides apparently want to re-up. Connecting wants to stay. The flyers want to keep Connect Me, so it's just logical that the only reason why deal isn't done yet is because the flyers are willing to give Connect Me what he thinks he's worth, what his camp is having as drawn as their line in the sand. Do I think that Brier is having a change of heart about the entire concept of re-signing Connect Me? I'm skeptical because I do think they want to. I think they really like him. I think they are probably more confident than I am that he's going to age well. But again, like number one, there's two sides of that. Number one, they obviously have more information about his medicals. Number two, you also, when you're closer to a guy, you fall in love with him and you fall in love with the idea, oh no, he's never gonna age because he works so hard, you watch him in the gym, and then you blind yourself to the realities of the aging curve. I mean, that just happens, that happens to a lot of teams. It's one of those issues you run into. So the flip side of that is on both ends. But no, I think they still want to re-sign Connect Me. I don't think that their inability to get big moves done this summer changes their view of re-signing Connect Me. What I do think may have adjusted it is that some of these contracts that were signed elsewhere came in lower than I think everybody was anticipating. Like if Connect Me was coming in and being like, I want 9.5 million years over eight years, and the flyers were like, you know, well, we don't really want to do that, but if that's what it takes to get done, maybe we'll cave and eventually, and then you see what Sam Ryder signed for. And then it's like, well, not dude, like, sorry, you weighed it and you thought that the mark was going to come in in your favor and it didn't, and that recalibrates what we're willing to offer you. Like, sorry, the comparables came in, and this is the going right. Like, that may have slowed things down, because the fact of the matter is, is that those guys got less money than I think a lot of people were anticipating, and that lowers in theory what Connect Me could ask for. So that might have played into it too. That might have played into why things haven't gone maybe as quick as people anticipate they might go in June. - Now, we are open to the possibility that things could still happen, and this is going to be fun for Charlie. - Okay. - There aren't a ton of, like you said, UFA's left, but NHL Network today, put out a little tweet. Remaining RFAs, baby. - This is when you know the office is over, because NHL Network, remember how I said in the lead up to the draft about how you need to account for the incentives of people in the media when you're hearing all these rumors pre-drafts. - We're the media, Charlie. - You again have to account for the incentives of the media. Ratings and interests are going to fall off dramatically, so what does NHL Network do? - There's going to be offer sheets, baby, knowing that there won't be. - I'm not saying that there will be. I'm just saying, if Danny really wanted to get the people going, there is a list of guys here that are restricted free agents who did not file for arbitration. Who are, technically, somewhat at least available, via offer sheet. If he really wanted to go out and do something, this is the list of forwards here. I know we've talked about Bifield before in the defenseman. - There's some great names on this list. - I was hardly, I would kill him. - I would kill him, I wouldn't buy a thought. I would kill him to have Thomas Harley. Sider, yeah, I take him. I think he's a little overrated, but I take him. Fans would love him because he's a big hitter. - Yeah. - But Harley actually think higher. - Harley's really free, as a player. Bifield is my dream, but he's my dream because it makes zero sense for L.I. to trade him. - It doesn't. But you just get into, there are the cold, profetti thing. That's one. - Yeah, profetti's interesting. - Perfetti and natures are ones that I just look at and go like, why hasn't something happened yet? Like, these are guys who, at least the flyers were on the periphery of looking into, if not an offer sheet, do you think maybe a deal could still be done for any of the players on these lists? - Look, if Danny was able to pull off a deal for one of these guys, I would. I would me a culpa, write an article, bein' like, Danny, you play this off season beautifully. Well done, you made the big move, you got the potential one C, good job. The reason why I think these guys are still unsigned is because their teams know that they can wait because offer sheets don't happen often. The team who often, you know, the flyers are, the team that's thrown out a lot of offer sheets over the years, they're over the cap. (laughing) - But I mean, they could, they could, because they could just use LTIR, they could. - LTIR, they could. - They could, they could. - Like, if they're gonna be over LTIR anyway-- - Might as well. - You might as well, like, there's really no difference than being over 800,000 versus 18. Like, whatever, you're over. You're not banking cash based anyway. - It's like the Jerry Seinfeld bit, like, you get thrown in a pool and someone shoots you with a water gun, you're no more wet. Like, what's your wet, your wet? - Exactly. - Someone's gonna cut just that part. Anyway, I'm just looking at, like, this is where I am with the off season, to answer your question from, like, 20 minutes ago. 'Cause I just keep step by step. - You keep pondering. - Yeah, like, I am disappointed, because I want shit now. I want to know who's gonna be on this team, telling me we're gonna draft some guys or next off season or two off seasons from now. That's all well and good. We've wanted a long-term plan for a while. We have it now, and obviously we're not happy with that, because, like, we live in a world where we need things immediately. And we're the fliers. We've always gotten stuff immediately, whether it's good stuff or bad stuff. They do it. And it just hasn't happened. I'm disappointed. At the same time, I'm holding out hope that this off season is not over. I'm sorry, Chuck. You're gonna have to get back to work at some point. (laughing) I'm holding out hope that this off season isn't over, because there's something we've learned about Danny over these past couple of months. When it's quiet, something's brilliant. - He likes to operate in silence. - He does. - All these fucking, all these rumors and bullshit, we're exactly that. Rumors and bullshit. When there's nothing happening, that's when Danny might be off. - That's when Danny's cooking. - Maybe. That's all I could think of is they keep things quiet. And when there's stuff coming out, that's stuff from other sides. And I know we all love the rumors. We all have a trading up to four. They're trading for this guy. They're getting-- - Oh, yeah. They're getting zigorous. - I was thoroughly annoyed by the rumors. - The fans, Charlie. - The fans love rumors. These things are, they're gonna trade up to four. They're gonna trade for Trevor Ziegers. They're gonna trade for Cole prophetic. Whatever the hell was going on, you know? Now, it's quiet. All's silent, that's when I'm expecting some. We had no idea cut or gochier was happening. - Fair. - And then it happened. - Fair. - Like all this stuff, I'm just waiting, like maybe once the arbitration filings are over, teams have. All right, we know exactly what we're spending. We're as done as the flyers were a couple of weeks ago. Let's circle back to that conversation. - Yeah, maybe. - Maybe those things are possible. That's what I'm holding out hope for. But overall, the mishcove thing is huge. - It's huge. - We cannot understate, like-- - It's enormous. - I started the show, like, yo, they're opening up the fucking store. Go get your jerseys. We don't benefit from that at all. I might head down there after the show. Like, now it's what, 152, I think we can rap. I'm gonna go head down, like, you know, that's exciting. But like I said, a couple of shows ago, I do kind of chalk that up to the last year's ledger. It's just like, yeah, you drafted them last year and that was huge. He felt he had seven, awesome. He's over here early. Like you said in your article, we may never know how big a part of that the flyers are because they're not supposed to be. But like, that's kind of just luck. That's not something to me that the flyers did. What they did with mishcove is draft them a year ago. - Right. - We are now a year later, nothing has happened in terms of making this team better to compete for cups in the future. And that's disappointing to me. They just let a whole off season go by and their biggest move so far was re-upping Garnet Hathaway. Resigning Eric Johnson. - That's not even to me as big as re-upping the fourth liner. Like that's what we're talking about here. Keeping your RFAs is just what you do. - Yeah, that's like your job. - You don't let, they were afraid to, again, like, let Felix Sandstrom go through waivers. You don't let dudes leave for nothing until you're sure they suck, then you let them leave for nothing. But like, they did nothing this off season and that's disappointing because it's the GM's job to make the team better. Whether for now or in the future, he didn't. - And I don't think, again, I wanna make this clear. I don't think this is disastrous. - Not a disaster, it's not over. - Yeah, like, I don't think that if the flyers are done. - If they are done, I don't think this is the end of the world. I don't think that it means that the rebuild is gonna fail. I don't think it means that Danny's an idiot. I don't think it means that he doesn't have a plan. I don't think any of that is true. All I'm saying is that now, especially if you're gonna resign Connectney, because then you're saying we think we could turn the corner in the next two to three years, because otherwise, why would you resign Connectney? You've lost an off season to do stuff. Now you only have a couple more off seasons you can. And maybe the patients will be validated next off season because Danny goes out there, you know, they trade up, they get a top tier talent, they move another pick for a high end player, add a prospect in, you know, they have a huge off season and you're like, oh man, now I see, when I look at this pipeline and when I look at this roster and we saw what Mitch Cobb did in his rookie year, hopefully it's great. You're like, yeah, yeah, I can see a cop contender in two, three, four, five years. Right now, I look at the flyers roster and look at their pipeline. And even with Mitch Cobb knowing he's here, I don't see a team realistically without a ton of things breaking their way. Like a lot of things breaking away. Every player we mentioned living up to their ceiling and then so. Yes, I don't see a team that can compete for a Stanley Cup. I see a team that probably can compete for the playoffs, but I don't see a cup contender. They need to add more talent if they want to be a team that I look at, a pipeline, an organizational pipeline that I look at and I say, yeah, yeah, I don't even have to squint and I could see that team being in the mix. They're not there yet. Maybe they get their next off season, but this off season, they really didn't do much aside from bringing Mitch Cobb over and removing that uncertainty. They didn't do much to create the possibility for a cup contender at the end of this rebuild. And that's, it's not the end of the world. It's just disappointed. I am disappointed in the off season thus far, but like Charlie said, I don't think this means it's like a failure of a rebuild. No. It's just a failure to capitalize on one of what is hopefully several opportunities. Exactly, that's a really good way to put it. Yeah. They have multiple opportunities in the future to do what they didn't do this summer. They just didn't do it this summer. And they have to be smart with the things they do between now and then. Right. Whether it's, to connect the issue, the upcoming deadline, upcoming, you know, a year, you know, 10 months from now, whatever. Yes. All the stuff that happens to be now and next summer. It could all work out when they do still have to be smart. Like you said, they raised the degree of difficulty. This episode is brought to you by Experian. Are you paying for subscriptions you don't use, but can't find the time or energy to cancel them? Experian could cancel unwanted subscriptions for you, saving you an average of $270 per year and plenty of time. Download the Experian app. Results will vary. Not all subscriptions are eligible. Savings are not guaranteed. Paid membership with connected payment account required. You're a podcast listener. And this is a podcast ad. Reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Lips and Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts, offering host endorsements. Or run a reproduced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Lips and Ads. Go to Lips and Ads.com now. That's L-I-B-S-Y-N ads.com. There's a couple of things I want to get to before we wrap up first just right now at this moment. 156 on Tuesday, July 9th. Okay. Is the criticism that the plan right now really resembles the Ron Hextel plan fair? I am comparing Mitch Cobb and the luck of getting him at seven and him coming over early to the luck of, and obviously we know this was a failure, but jumping from 13 to 2 in the lottery was very lucky. The result wasn't lucky, but you get what I'm saying. Those two things be the, let's call them the same. The rest of the plan is that criticism fair. It's a fascinating question because I do think it's fair that said, and I've articulated this on the show a few times, I don't think it is a death sentence if Danny Breyer's plan resembles Ron Hextel's plan. Because I don't think Ron Hextel's plan was destined to fail. Ron Hextel did not draft well enough to execute his plan. If Danny Breyer does, the Hextel plan could have worked. It just didn't because the execution was wrong, but I don't think the plan itself was flawed. Now, if you believe that the Ron Hextel plan was never gonna work regardless of whether they got Hayskittin instead of Patrick or Randin instead of Proveroff or whatever, if it was just gonna fail because they didn't make big enough trades, then fair. I don't think it was destined to fail. It failed, but I don't think that the overarching plan, the patience and the focus on developing, the focus on drafting and stockpiling assets, I don't think that is an inherently flawed plan. It just didn't work the last time, it could work this time. So to answer your question, yeah, the criticism that this plan thus far is reminiscent of the Hextel plan, that's a fair criticism. But I don't think it is as damning as the people who are articulating that criticism. Wanna believe it is, that's where I come from. - Okay, let's hit those super chats now. Yeah, so we have three here. Let's start with this first one from Adam S. Do we think Drysdale, Kootz and Risto will be healthy enough to play and play well by the start of 2024, 25 season? Don't wanna see them injured again. - It sure seems like it appears from everything I've heard that Drysdale and Kootz, 'cause I've specifically heard about them, are pretty much good. - They got the procedures and camp and everything should be fine. - Yeah, they're good. Like they're having relatively normal off-season training sessions now, because it was less of a major surgery and more of a cleanup type of thing. Risto, I hope so, but the Risto surgery was serious. I mean, we're talking about a major, major surgery. I hope he's ready. I hope he's good to go. - The hell is his injury? - What was this? - A tricep, something like that. It was like a major muscle. - Okay. - I believe, if I remember correctly. - So-- - Put CM Punk out a couple of times. - Yes, so I hope so. - And they've said that he should be good to go, but we've seen with injuries like Hayes and whatnot that sometimes guys aren't good to go. - I hope so. - This next super chat from Corey. If they can't sign a dry-cidal rantin' in or echblad tier of player next year, is it a failure? - What do you think? - Shit. 'Cause I have my answer. What I was doing was I was looking up to confirm that it was a triceps. It was a ruptured triceps tendon. - Okay. - The surgery was completed in April. He's expected to be ready by the start of training camp, but again, pretty major surgery. He's gonna be out for three months. He's expected to be out three months from April. So theoretically, he's now getting back going, but again, major surgery we'll say. - Free agency is such a tough game. Like I just don't see dry-cidal hitting the market. Like that would be shocking to me. - I know the rumors are out there, but it wouldn't surprise him, especially after they made the cup final. You think he wants to stay with McDavid and finish the job, right? - You would, but it's a failure if they're unable to pull off a trade for a similar level player. - That's free agent or trade. They need a move. Like we just talked about, man. This pipeline and the under 25 guys they have right now, it's good, it's good. It's not Star-laden. They have Mishkov and then a whole bunch of canacones, hopefully. They need, look at the dude, look at the, I know it's, maybe you don't need to be Tampa, maybe you don't need to be Colorado, but you need more than one dude. - Oh yeah, of course. - You need more than one. Like you mentioned dry-cidal here. They have the best player in the fucking game. They still haven't been able to get it done. - Almost did, but they don't. - I think the interesting part about this question, Corey, is that, like, the reason why I disagree with the idea that if they don't sign a guy, it's a failure, is because I personally don't love free agency. Especially not for the flyer. - It's rough. - Because if you're signing a guy like this, these are all great players. - They're 27 at youngest. - And Eckblad's good, I wouldn't say he's amazing, but he's a top tier, top half of the line up guy. We're at an dry-cidler star, they're great players. But if you're signing them, you're getting them older, and you're running into the exact same issue, you're running into with resigning connecting. Where, you know, okay, what is that? How does that deal age? Especially when your guy in Mitchkoff, who you're apparently-- - It's gonna be 20. - It's gonna be 20. Like, I would rather them trade for a guy. Obviously, I don't think they're gonna trade for a guy who's 20. But I'd rather them trade for a guy who's like-- - 25. - 23 and 26, then sign a guy to an eight-year deal who's 28, 29. So for me, no, it's not a failure. They don't sign any of those guys. But it is a failure if they don't get, hopefully in a trade, a legitimate top of the line up guy who can support Mitchkoff for the next six, seven, eight years. - Players of that level of free agency only make sense to me when you are the lightning. - Yes. - Signing Genssel. - Yeah, man, you're going for it. - We don't give a shit about five years from now. - After us the deluge, like, okay, we're going for it. - Like, it does the four or five years from now. Do not matter, our window is current. - Exactly. - It is now. - I think it's a little down the line, but it's like, they have to sign a guy like that. All right, and the last one from Adam S here. TK hasn't played a full 82-game season since the 18/19 season. And that was his only one. Why do they think he'll stay healthy if he hasn't? - So I don't think this is quite fair because-- - 1920 wasn't an 82-game season. - It's overstating, like, yes. It is objectively-- - He missed time. - It's objectively true that he has not had an 82-game season. This is 2018/2019, but I went back and looked. 2019/2020, he played 66 games. The Flyers played 69. - 69. - He missed three. Like, yeah, like, it's not as if he missed a ton of time. He got banged up a couple times, missed a few games here and there. Guess what, a talkie, that happens. The next year, he played in 50 games, 50 at 56, and one of those was a healthy scratch. If you remember from our good pal, Lane Vigno, healthy scratched him near the beginning of that year. - He got a healthy scratch that 23. - Sure did. - That's crazy. - So he missed five games. That is, now we're talking three games. We're talking five games. Then, the next year, he missed three games. Then, 2022/2020/23, he missed the lot. Then, the following year, this past year, he missed six. So, like, yes, he misses time. He gets banged up because he plays, you know, a hard-nosed style for his size, especially, and I am concerned about how he will age given the gritty way he plays, especially given his size. But I don't think it's quite fair to present him as super injury prone. He really hasn't missed a ton of games. - And, like, guys are healthy until they're not. Like, I always thought, and we'll get to Gary's right there in a second. I always thought we were a little spoiled by the Drew Voracek. - Yeah. - They never missed any time. - And the retrospect, Voracek probably should have missed a time. - Well, that's the. - Because the guy played through, like, fucking nine concussions. - That's the thing. And then, like, Jake never missed, you know, more than a game or two, and usually not even that much. And then his career just ended. - Yeah. - Like, well before it could have. - Yeah. - Yeah, and yeah, Drew's still producing in a healthy, but you just never fucking know. - Yeah. - Like, it's just tough. And Gary B's here, Bill and Charlie, do you think seven AAV is good for TK? Oh, I take him at seven all day. - If Connecti was willing to sign an eight-year deal or seven-mill year, I would do that in a heartbeat, but I don't think he would. - Would you rather go? 'Cause it seems as if the rumors have been more shorter than the eight-year term, more money. - Higher cap hit. - Would you rather go longer term and deal with that when it is, but, like, a seven-mill cap hit? - Yeah, I mean, I would-- - Seven's probably low, but eight-- - Seven is low. I would, if they were-- Let's say that they were to sign Connecti to, like, a five-year deal with a $9.5 million cap hit. Like, that's an overpay for what he is, but it does ease a lot of my concerns about how the deal's gonna age. So I would, that would be like, all right, you know what? Sure, like, fine. Yeah, you're probably paying him about a mill too much, but you really wanna keep Connecti. Sure, you're not risking having him at age 34, 35 when he might be in the ver-- in a process of falling off a cliff. If they signed him to an eight-year, $7 million contract a year, yeah, I would do it. I just don't think he would do it. - Yeah, I just, I doubt it. - I think he's not-- - I don't think he's taken under eight at any time. - I think he's one of the exceptions. Like, I'd rather go longer term less money than the other way, and that's just, 'cause I want that money when he does start to age. - Right, and the cap's gonna keep going up, so there's that. - Oh, we will see. There's a CBA coming up. And that is just about all the time we have for you on PH.L.Y. Fliers. Thank you all for listening. Thank you for hanging out. If you haven't already, hit that subscribe button. You know where to follow us, YouTube. Set those reminders, never miss a live show. We'll be back tomorrow. 1 p.m., our regularly scheduled time, follow us on Twitter @PHLY_Fliers. And follow the podcast, PH.L.Y. Fliers, wherever you get those. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, MortgageCS. Check out mortgagecs.com/PHLY to start your home buying process today. Before we get out of here, we're doing a thing soon where we're gonna be debating the top games in Philadelphia history. And I need to make a list of the top 10 fliers games since 1980. I have eight. So if you're like, oh, well, game six against Boston. Yeah, I mean, I got it, trust me. That's all in there. If you have some obscure, maybe regular season games that you think fit in here, I was born in '88. So this is since 1980. I maybe don't have that many from the era of the '80s on this list. We didn't live like, yeah, like didn't live through it. They made a bunch of cup finals in that time. Hit me up on Twitter or hit up the show on Twitter. I have eight of the 10 I need. I'm gonna open up the final two selections to our listeners. So hit us up on Twitter for that. All right, that's it for today. I already did the thank yous. My name's Bill Matts. That's Charlie O'Connor. Stay loose and sexy, Philly. (upbeat music) ♪ Y'all sitting like the mayor ♪ (upbeat music) You [BLANK_AUDIO]
