Radio Miraya
2658: Generations of women leaders in Warrap State: Researcher's Perspective
Now, it is indeed an important day, the International Women's Day, and this last episode of our five-part series on women who are producing knowledge on South Sudanese communities. What has been quite striking is that they are all young women who are bonding early career researchers with a bright future ahead of them. They are all part of the South Sudan Women Research Network, a program of the Rift Valley Institute supported by the European Union delegation. Now, today we have Mary Adud, a chick. Her work takes us to women leaders in what are upstate, her work seeks to understand how women leaders are carrying out their duties against all odds. She spoke to Radio Mirais Madeline Quajoc, and he is the following conversation. I carried out the research last year in May. This research was women in politics, specifically, women in traditional leadership. This research was carried out in what are upstate among the three counties of Toinge, that is, Two East, Two North and Two South. This research was focusing on women in traditional leadership, how women really participate in leadership, traditionally. So when I really started this research, I went for data collection, and I found out that most of the women are not, like, given that high positions, like, to my surprise, I did not get any female I mean, who is really a permanent ship. I did not get a woman who is also executive ship, though maybe they might be there, but I didn't have access to them. But I just found that most of the positions that women occupied in those areas that I went to, is like, be a member of the court, and like, some women leaders, like, leaders has women, they are only leading women. And some of them have found that there are some who are really heading some of the courts, like, in Toinge South, I got one woman who is head of Toinge Town Bank Court. So those are the things that I found on my research. And to tell more about my research, the listeners, my research was actually focusing on a paramonship and the elders, and then the women representative, and women leaders where they were found. Yeah. So briefly, that is about my research. So what was the experience? These women who have been, for example, chiefs or they have been members in the court, or they have been women leaders in these three counties of Warab State. What was the experience? Well, I did. I mean, the experience was so nice. I spoke to one of the leaders, who was a primary administrator in 1994. She was appointed, and she was telling me at first, she really feared, and she said 1994. 1994, she was appointed as a primary administrator in Toinge South. So at first, she said, I was not really willing to take it off, because I was really afraid and my children were actually still young. And I was saying, if I'm really going to take up this role, then who will take care of my kids. But then she said, after some time, she was well off. She really enjoyed, and she really did well in her work. Most of the people who are really members of the courts and other head of the courts, they're saying they are working and the experience is actually nice. And they were also going ahead and telling me, this thing now is left to us ladies. So let us stop fearing and really contest our, speak out that me, I want to be a chief, me, I want to be a paranormal, me. I want to lead me, I want to be like, what women do, a man can do, what men do, women can do. So as what is wrong with us, if we can really be part of this traditional leadership. So the experience actually, they spoke well and it was good. Okay, that was great. And I'm quite sure your research managed to get sample for women who have been leaders in the past. Like this chief was a leader in, who was a chief in Nigeria. And this is a big position by the way, in 1994. So did you manage to compare your samples of those days in the past and now in the present? Is there any difference for women when they are leaders, those days and now have they shared any insightful stories or personal experience? Well, actually I did comparison as you just quoted. When I see like women in the past, with the example of that, the pyramid administrator, how she stated, she said her time, things were really good. People could listen. Like when she was a pyramid administrator, when she says her orders, either she sends them to toy north, toy east, they all respond on time. So and there was, there was really security that time. So like whether you are a man or a woman, your rules and your glaciers must be followed. In comparison to now, she said that now people don't listen because people have really become wild because of insecurities, there are these communal conflicts and so on. So ladies who are leaders now, they have not respected us before. Because before law was really at hand. In place, people really, if they say this is a leader, you could really see how it failed to be a leader. It was very nice in past in compared to now. And she was saying, and most of the people that I also interviewed that it's not because that women cannot lead at the grassroots. But the problem is that there is a lot of insecurity and there are things that really are full of violence and ladies, they fear they cannot speak that deep voice that men can fear and so on. So in comparison, it was at least better in the past than now. So you mentioned something about respect. Some women are not respected, especially now, not like before. So this is this respect. Is it coming from the community as whole or it is coming from men, they will be like, this is a woman, she's a leader for women, not for us men, or from where this this respect is coming from. Okay, this respect as I just put it, it is not just from the community, it's not even from everyone. It's some of like those specific people, like the back there and the bridge there is fighting. Like if you come to the court and you find that it is a woman that is conducting a court case or is the one investigating people, you just, she's just a woman, what do you mean? So at this point, this is where they say there is no respect now. But in the past, like if a woman calls someone, my son, like an anti, my child, that child will really respect. But now if you get this, especially those wild ones, the fighting, what, what, what. If you say, ah, when a woman I got to bed, you see. So in that place, they really say it like it's hard for them now, though it is not everyone, but in some cases when these things come up, they really, it's, it's really hard for them to handle unless there is a man beside to help and rescue that situation, otherwise they won't even listen. So Mary, ah, we understand that there are a lot of things that often stand between women and their participation in the society. What has the research found out about challenges that we've been leaders are facing in these three counties? Well, there are a lot of challenges. Like one of the things and the key in the outstanding challenge was that most of these women said we are not educated. Most of these women in these three counties are not educated. Some never going to school, some were married at the primary lower classes. So they are not educated and this work they said it needs someone that is land, someone that really knows something. And the other thing is that they said they are being faced by domestic work, because in the village there are people who work to get food, like you don't go and buy things. You have to cultivate, you have to do what, and it is actually a very hard time when you are still producing, like when you are married recently and you want to really take up the society roles you are unable to do. If there's not someone, maybe you're in low, you're sister, your mother in low or to help you. If there is someone to help you well and good, you can go. But if there is no someone to help you, then it's actually hard. The other thing is that they are being faced by the cultural norms, because at the past it is not that easy for women to stand in front of men and speak. So who are you to speak in front of men? You are just a woman. The woman you do the domestic work and be at home. But now that thing is slightly and it is a bit changing, it's not like before. Then the other thing is that some of the men, they really fear to allow the women to go for society work, because some say ladies are not sincere, if you really leave her to go to the society and work for the society, she might go and see herself, another man and go. So some of them are being called home, they are not allowed to go. Just because men, they fear that the women might go. Another thing is that ladies themselves, they fear. Like we ladies naturally, we are a creative child. So if you're brought up in that house where you don't speak freely, you're grown up with that fear in you. So you really fear, though there are chances for you to be a leader, you will fear how will I speak, if I go how will I talk, where will I start? So those are some of the challenges that really women found that they are facing them. So when you conducted the research, have you managed to talk to some men to understand what is their attitude towards these women leaders? Actually, I talk to most of the men, especially the paramonships and then the executive ships. Then when I talk to them, they said women are the great leaders. For some people, they said based on our experience that we have worked with women in comparison to men, women can be great leaders more than men. Because a woman, when she is given a role, she will do it to the fullest. They don't hide things and they really commit to their work. So the attitudes were good, but they were saying it's not us, it's not them, the men. But it's the cultural norms that is preventing women not to actually compete with us together. But if it is us men, it's okay, we can work as long as the lady respects herself. This is what they said. If the lady respects herself, then she's okay, she can be a leader. That means if still this norms are still there, it's still this norms are still there. So what has your research found about the leadership qualities that a woman should have, changeable her lead effectively in a society? Well, one of them and the most outstanding one is what I've just said. Because if you don't really respect yourself, you cannot be a leader. So they say, if you want to be a public figure, you have to actually know what to say. You have to be ill or clean enough. You know how to speak. Be it any language, dinka or anything, anything. But you have to really stand up and speak from and actually know what you want to say. Another thing is that you have to be responsible in your own house because leadership started your own house. Yeah, you need to set an example. An example should be seen in your own house that this flan flan, marade kide kide kide. But you cannot come a leader as well, you do not lead your family. So that is one of the qualities a woman or any other leader must have. The other thing is that a leader must be someone who can not be brave. Like you can say something, tomorrow you are asked, you repeat the same thing and you cannot be brave. So you can also be presentable. So those are some of the qualities that I found out in my research and our voices to be heard. Yeah. If I remember very well and if I recall at the beginning of the interview, when you were introducing yourself, you mentioned that you were supported by RVR and South Sudan women researchers network. So what kind of support? If you may know, what kind of support were you given? Wow. This support was so amazing from RVI through the South Sudan Women Research Network. This support was informal to this. One, they really gave us mentorship. We went a lot of trainings, a lot of workshop and practices. They were also assigned to us mentors because as I'm speaking to you, I never had any research before. I'm not a researcher before, but through RVI, I was trained how to like collect data, transcribe and other things. Now as I speak, I speak with full confidence that I'm a researcher. I speak with full confidence that I'm a researcher. Even after this, I can really help out South Sudan to do research on so many topics if I'm given a chance. Secondly, they gave us finance because to do a research, actually it needs you to have finance. So they were really there to help us to accommodate us financially so that we carried our research. Okay. That was really very important research. That was very important support without it. The research would have not happened for sure. So today is International Women's Day. What is your what to women who want to engage in research work that seeks to understand the diverse lives of South Sudanese? What can you tell women who want to become researchers to understand us as women of South Sudan? Well, first of all, I'm very happy to be interviewed. To be interviewed today, and it is a woman day, I'm part of women. So I'm actually so excited to share this message to my fellow sisters, my mothers and whoever listening to me on this platform. At first, I would really give you an example from my own thing. At first, I never thought of being a researcher and I really had that fear in me because I see it's so difficult to be a researcher. It requires a lot of time, a lot of commitment and so many things. But when I saw this notice that the RVI wants to support women in terms of research field, I really had that inner thing that led me to try, led me to apply. When I really applied, I did not know that I would be accepted because I'm still a student, I did not graduate. And this thing I was seeing, how many people are here in this town and they are finished and they might be interested. So I was saying, if I write, I might be left out because I am not having any certificate to make matter, I was just in second year. So I'm very far from the race, but I said, no, let me do it. So when I did it to my surprise, when I saw an image, I was choked, oh Jesus, so I can do, I can make this. So in this example, I want to tell my fellow women, don't fear.