Radio Miraya
2658: DEMOCRACY IN ACTION: The role of parliamentarians
Hello, welcome to Democracy in Action, and this is me, Gabriel Shaddar. Mohabakoffi Varamaj, Democracy in Action, or Demac Manag Gabriel Shaddar, Al-Arjumiraya. Today we are going to discuss on the role of the MPs, that is the members of Parliament in acting and debating proposed legislation. And also speaking to members of Parliament, today we will try to find answers to some of the basic questions, like what is the Parliament's responsibility to ensure that the laws of the land are being executed, and also what does the parliamentary oversight entail in monitoring and the actions and activities of the executive branch of the government to ensure transparency and accountability. And the MPs also will speak about the responsibility to ensure that legislation passed by Parliament are implemented as intended. I would like to invite you to the Democracy in Action, and I would like to thank you very much for joining me. And I would like to thank you very much for having me, and I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me, and I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me, and I would like to thank you very much for joining me. And I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. I would like to thank you very much for joining me. Thank you, Gabriel, for having me. Yes, and with me in the studio, so it's my colleague from the UNMIS, similar first. I mean, political first. Emmanuel Rachel, a political first officer, who is on MIS, welcome Emmanuel. Thank you, Gabriel, for having me. I'm glad to be here. Yeah, they might be wondering why you are here, but you are a partner. UN is a partner, and you will speak about how the UNMIS and the UN is trying to help the MPs in different ways. Thanks for coming to this show. Absolutely. Yes, let me come to my first question, to do MPs. And honorable George Andrei Jomam. We might even speak later in Arabic for some time because of thelessness to understand. The MPs have roles and responsibilities. And in terms of the governments in the country, but there might be some things that are clear or something that are not clear. So we need to go back to the basics about the roles and responsibilities of the MPs. This is an opportunity to tell the listeners the man on the street. What are these roles, basically? Once again, thank you very much. Of course, the National Parliament is... It has competency, that is the National Competency. And the National Parliament is mostly responsible of passing the budget in the house, and also identifying treaties, agreements and conventions. And also the National Parliament also is... One of his competencies also is to discuss the reports and the policies of the ministries. And in passing the budget, of course, the hard challenge is sometimes the members of Parliament, when they're discussing the budget. So we have to call all the ministries, which is related to the standing socialised committees. And then we share with them, and then we discuss with them their budgeties. And we see what are the challenges that is facing them. And so that also we can solve these problems with them. And also the National Parliament, one of their competencies also is to look at the needs of the people. You see, and also to debate and to discuss the laws. Thanks. Let me go also to honourable Ghatrich Lampoch. Thank you very much, WL, for having us here. And I think this is an opportunity for us to educate our audience and the public about the role of the Parliament. As you have already mentioned, let me start by defining the Parliament itself. Parliament is a French word which has two components, parlour. Parlour is means talk. So means wisdom. So that means when you are in a Parliament, you talk with the victims, talk with the victims. For us, South Sudanese, South Sudan is a bi-cameral system of Parliament. Bi-cameral, that means we have two houses. We have the National Legislative Assembly, and we have the Council of the States. These two houses represent the National Legislature. And they have their own roles that they play together as a National Legislature. So Parliament is a democratic institution where also members express their own views. So our main role as a National Legislature, that means combine the two houses together, is to represent the will of the people of South Sudan. That's one. Number two, we have to foster the unity of the people of South Sudan. Number three, is that we have to enact laws. That means we legislate laws. Number three, or number four, we oversight the government. That means we have to oversee the executive and also the judiciary of how the implements follow the legislations and follows that article. These are the major competence of the National Legislature. And also in addition to this, as two houses, when as a National Legislature, we have also a common competence that we do together. One, we amend the Constitution. Number two, we also legislate laws that are serving the interests of the country, as it has been already. There are some treaties and also conventions and also there are agreements, international agreements. And also we discuss the budget. And also we discuss the President, the state of the state of nation address. And now we are expecting the Parliament to be opened by the President. The President will issue a state of nation address. That is called SONA. That SONA is the President will come and present the government policy. What services that are going to deliver to the people of South Sudan? Also, it's a National Legislature address that issue. Also, we can come together as a Parliament, discuss the budget. We can come together and also declare war if our country is under threat. And also we can come together instead of emergency if the country is also facing a lot of challenges. So these are the common or the general functions or competence of the National Legislature. But we have our own specific functions, the National Legislature. The National Legislature assembly has its own and the Council of the state address its own. Has its own, that is address the interests of the states. Thank you for that elaborate explanation. The President will be able to bring the democracy to the government. The government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. We will continue to ensure that the government will be able to bring the government to the government. If you want to ask more clarification questions to clarify some of the points, you can send an SMS to 0-9-1-2-1, 7-7-1-4-1. Later, we will have the chance from the listeners to call on 0-9-2-9-6-8-6-2-9-7. The number again is 0-9-2-9-6-8-6-2-9-7 for your interaction later. Let me go back now to my guest in the studio, Honorable George Andrea Juma, and Honorable Ghatrich Lam. What happens when a draft bill, as you said, you will be passing laws, you are passing laws and policies? What happens when the draft bill is brought to your consideration as a national peace, Honorable George? Thank you very much. When the bill is presented to the House, is presented by the Minister of Justice, and the presentation of the bill in the beginning is, we will call it the phase stage of the presentation. And from there, the bill is given to the Standing Specialized Committee. And then the members of the Standing Specialized Committee are the one to discuss the bill, and then they come with their reports for the second reading. And most of the time, the second reading is all about the general features of the bill. So the members will discuss the bill, and then also they contribute with their opinions, and their ideas in the bill, and that is actually to reach the bill. So at the second reading, then the bill is presented to the House for debate. And when the members are debating or are discussing the bill at the second reading, it's actually that discussing the general features of the bill. So they always look at the generality of the bill. You don't go into the details of the bill because there is another stage in which the members can discuss the bill in length. So now, the report, when it is discussed, then the members will make their report for the sale reading. And in the sale reading, this is way by all the members of the parliament. They will contribute with their opinions, and then they will discuss the bill. And also they make some changes, because the changes always takes place when it is in the sale reading. They make amendments, and also they even -- after they make the amendments also, they can even change some of the switches in the bill. So from there, and then the bill is taken back to the committee for the last stage, that is the fourth stage. And in that stage, always, there is no any amendment. It is going to be passed stage by stage. So this is how members of parliament always discuss the bill, which is presented to them by the Minister of Justice. For the policies, because sometimes also the ministers present their policies. Actually, the policies, these are the activities of the ministries. And any minister is supposed to present their policies and programs to the parliament, so that the parliament can discuss them and then can approve them. It's not all the ministries. Now, since we have started, not all the ministers have presented their policies. Very few ministers are the one who have presented their policies, and we appreciate that. But presentation of the policies to the parliament is very important. And why do I say is important? Because this is in which the members of parliament will know exactly what the ministers are doing. They will see their programs, and at the same time also, they can also contribute with their opinions and ideas to enrich that plans and programs of the ministries. So in general, this is actually how we as members of parliament, when the bills are presented to us, we discuss it, and these are the stages. And also when the policies are presented to the parliament, also this is the way how we pass the policies. So when the policies are already given to the committee, that is the appropriate committee, or the standing specialized committee, they have to make their reports and then they present it to the house. And after that, the house will debate it and we'll discuss it. And from there, they will pass it. Thank you very much, Honorable George Andrea. Honorable Gautre Lame. I think let me add something. I think Honorable George had already addressed the whole issue, the stages of the presentation of the bills. That is for stages. But I want to, because we said we are national legislation, and there are bills that also affect the interest of the states. So let me address this issue and clarify it. If it happened that any bills were presented to the national assembly, and passed by the national assembly, and at the end we felt that the bill affect the interest of the states, then what happened here is there's an inter, they will form what they call inter-house committee. That inter-house of it is scrutinized the bill that passed by the national assembly, and see whether there is issue affecting the interest of the state. If they felt that the bill affect the interest of the state, then it will be referred to the council of the states. Then the council of the state will go now and scrutinize the bill. And then if they can't break even some chains, and then when they make that chain, also they can't make, they can't be considered, and then the bill will be considered that the bill is passed. So this is when it comes to the issues of the bill that are interrelated to the two houses. So this is what is happening. Now with issue of the bills that passed by the national assembly, and how the executive will implement them, you know, the parliament now has introduced another committee. That is what they call the governance insurance committee. This government committee, this is standing specialized committee, I think, is meant to follow up the implementation of the legislation that passed by the national assembly and the council of the states, so whether they are implemented or not. So they have to follow up and if someone, the ministers, that if a certain bill is passed, then you will see whether that bill has been implemented or not. For example, the financial bill, they are also together with the committee of finance, they come and someone, the minister of finance, whether they are the implement the appropriation bills or not. So this is how the parliament works. So we follow up and also try to oversee the executive, whether they are implementing policies or they are not implemented. So this is the roles of the parliament when the bill is presented to the house. Just let me just elaborate a little bit on the issue of when the bill has something to do with the council of the states. The practice that we have in Sudan, you know, usually when there is a bill which has something to do with the states, what is happening is we don't have interhouse, that is interhouse committee. In Sudan, when we're there, we used to have, I mean, the speaker of the council of the states and then the speaker of the national assembly, both of them, they will sit and then they will discuss. And then they will speak of the national legislative assembly will listen to the opinions of the speaker of the council of the states on matters that has something to do with the state. But the practice that we have here now, we have already created even a committee, that is the committee, the legal committee for the two houses. And you see the rationale with the practice that we have for the leadership, the practice that we have in Sudan, the rationale is you don't need to have committees in place because, first of all, we will not have members for these committees or the members. They are either in the two houses either the national legislative assembly or the council of the states. Then what is the reason of having a committee in which you don't have members because mostly the committees operate when they have members and then they have meetings and so on. But I think we have a different practice and maybe we have already taken it from the region. But sometimes also there is one thing that our law is to identify. There are bills or sometimes even in agreement, there are certain things that we suppose to do it as legislation but you will find that the constitution says something and then the agreement says something. Then most of the powers you find the national legislative assembly is the one to pass, maybe that bill. But when you read also in the constitution, it may say the both houses. So we have contradictions and sometimes in the interpretation of the constitution and then the one of the agreement. But we know all of us that what comes in the agreement always prevails over what is in the constitution. The question also that comes to my mind is whether you are following some rules that are rules that are set for this. You are not waking up in the morning and say oh yeah how are we going to approach this. So what are the guides and the rules that you follow? Yeah of course we have rules that is the conduct of business. In other jurisdictions they call it the rule of procedures. But for us here in Sudan we say conduct of business. Actually the conduct of business is the one to guide the debates in the house and also at the same time also it gives rights to all the members. You see and also it gives powers to the speaker in order to control and to direct and to guide the house when they are debating. So for you when you are speaking in the parliament, when you want to get up of course you have to mention your name and then the political parties that you belong to. And also at the same time we will see it. And then also you quote from the conduct of business. Of course these are the most important procedures. We always consider as members of parliament that the conduct of business is just like a Bible for us or Quran. Because you have to move all the times with it because it is the one that guides you. If there are anything that you want to raise you have also to quote or you have also to cite what is written in the conduct of business. Our law or our Bible and Quran is the conduct of business. We tell them that now in your house you have your own Bible or Quran that is set next to you. But also when you come to the parliament the second Bible that you are going to abide will be the constitution and the conduct of business. These are the law that each member of the parliament should have them next to him or next to her. Because these are the things that are guiding them. In addition to what you have said about this issue of the house committee, yes and Sudan will be different. But now what we are doing now we are doing because all our conduct of business we are taking it from the regions and other countries. And we are sharing experiences of other countries. And in some countries when there is a bill that is affecting the interest of the state or other houses. What they have they have a committee called a mediation committee. That will come and sit and then we did. Which we will call here in our constitution and the conduct of business we call it the inter-house committee. So this is what we do here in South Sudan they call it media. Now we have even two conduct of business. Now we have a joint conduct of business that will bring the two houses together. So when we sit as the two houses we have a conduct of business with the relation that regulated the national legislature. It's called conduct of business for national legislation. That is when you raise up as well. You have to cut a regulation from that particular one. You don't cut from the national assembly or council or state. Because sometimes if you know, if you have a speaker who is familiar with the conduct of business we said okay, whenever you cut it any regulation he will come or he will refer to the conduct of business. When you felt that or you felt that you are cutting the wrong regulations. Then you said no, no, no. Now you are talking about the national legislature and we are now in a national legislature. That two houses coming together. So here what I want to say to this. In fact as a parliament we need to, when a bill is presented to the house to complement what has been said by it. When the bill is also addressing the public interest the bill also will be taken for public hearing. Where do you buy the stakeholders to come and give the views in the bills that is being presented. And even also in the constitution. When we are reviewing the constitution for example people now are talking of permanent constitution. What will happen now is that national constitution review commission now will delegate people to the state. The collect views, the solicit views of the people, what type of constitution that is going to govern. The same thing also to the law of light to the laws. When the law is presented to the house now you have to take it for public hearing and invite all the stakeholders and people of interest to come and give the views of how this bill will look like. On the public hearing I just want to make it very clear for our listeners also that the, you know, when we subject the bill for the public hearings it's not necessary that the members of the committee should, you know, include everything that has been said in the public hearing. Because at the end it is the decision of the members of parliament. Actually the public hearing is just, you know, to widen or to give more information or to give more information to the members of the committee. But it's not binding on the members of the committee that they should take everything that we should have discussed in the public hearing. The last thing, you know, there is issue of the bill. You know, sometimes our public, they look at the government, they think that by passing so many bills, that means that the parliament is working, you know. Because even sometimes the bill can even save for one year or two years. Because the most important thing is we have to be very sure that the bill that you are passing, because there are stakeholders, you know. And if you pass a bill in a rush and that bill, you see there are shortcomings in the bill, that means there are also a group or, let me say some of the security can be affected by that bill. So the most important thing to pass the bill is to scrutinize it properly. Even if it takes one year or two years, it's not necessary. But you must pass a bill that is perfect and is comprehensive. Yeah, a quick question. You have two houses. There's a debate which is the upper, which is the lower. You know, this is very interesting. You know, this is one of the controversial issues, and also some of the people. We are adapting the West Minister's system of governance. I'm aware now the two houses are when there's a system by commercial systems. The houses are named differently. For example, the council will say the different council is called Senate. Yeah. Okay. Or it's called upper house. And sometimes, you know, and then the other house is called the house of representative. So now if we bring it to our context as south Sudanese, we can say that the national assembly is representing the house of representative, because people are elected by the people. So they represent the will of the people. This is what the constitution said. And the council said in this context also it should be either we call it a Senate or we call it upper house. Now, the issue of upper house and lower house. You know, people just literally just literally interpreted it. Yeah. When you are upper, that means you are higher than anybody else. And then when you said you are lower, you said you are lower. So now I can see even my colleagues. The national legislature or somebody, when you say that you are lower house, they don't accept it. They don't accept it. And when you see people of members of the council of states, sometimes they see that they are less imperier than the national assembly. And it was really for members, new members. It was very difficult for them to adjust to that situation that all of us are representative of the people. And we represent the will of the people and south Sudan. So we are less of it. But roles are different. This is what make a difference as a member. But these names, we did not adjust to it. Maybe when we go to the permanent constitution, this is what we are going to rename. That should be a clear name, our houses. A clear cut. Understanding, like, this is just one aspect we are speaking here, but it seems that without experience, you cannot survive under this system. For teachers, if you are still having water over your ears, it is still really difficult. Let me ask a quick question about the other one. You see, which one is the upper and which one is the lower. There is a practical reason for bicameral system. Actually, bicameral means two houses, two bodies, that is the meaning of it. And it is a function as part of the largest system of check and balances. The most important thing is having two houses, you do not want one house to concentrate the powers in one house. So now you divide the powers between the two houses. And in India, I think the council will say that is the lower house in India. It is the upper house. But if you look at our constitution, that is Article 57, and you look at the powers and the functions of the national legislative assembly. And also you look at the competencies of the council with states. You will see that most of the, you know, they oversee the performance of the national government, approve the plans, programs and policies. And identify international treaties, conventions and agreements, adopt resolutions, vet and approve appointments as required by this constitution, and so forth. And when you look at the competencies of the council with states, that is Article 59. To initiate legislation and then issues resolution and direction. You know, mostly is concentrated on the states. You see? So the competency of the council of states is mostly dealing with issues and arises from the states. But if you look at the company or the powers and the functions of the national leadership assembly, you know, most of the things, I mean, the functions of the national government. All these powers are given to the national legislative assembly. So I agree totally with him that, yes, we are now drafting our new constitution, permanent constitution. And these are the issues that also I think we should discuss it and raise it. You know, when you are writing our constitution, it's not necessary that we, you know, we write a constitution based on what is happening in other constitutions, but it is our practices. You see, we learn from it, you know, it's one of the things that you see that we have a shortcomings in this issue, but the powers between the two houses. Then we address it in our constitution. Thank you very much. Still, you are listening to democracy in action with me, Gabriel Shadar. And with me in the studio are two members of Parliament, Honorable George Andrea Jumad, the Deputy Chair of the Standing Committee of Legislation and Justice. And also, Honorable Gatwick Lampoch. And also with me here is the Civil Affairs Officer from Monvisi Manuel Restol. And we are, I mean, the Political Affairs Officer here. And of course, we are discussing here the roles and responsibilities of the Parliament and members of Parliament in what they are doing in the government. (Music) Yes, in the remaining minutes, we will be speaking about your role and in real relationship between the, with the government in the executive and the judiciary branch. Like we are saying in the democracy or the modern state, you have three wings or three branches of government that's the legislation, the executive and the judiciary. But sometimes we are not clear about the relationship and what governs that relationship between the executive and the judiciary. In South Sudan, many even on the street that they say that, you see, our Parliament is just following the steps of the executive. Whatever the executive says, they will just go and follow. If the executive is not interested, they will just follow. They cannot twist the hand of the executive. The judiciary is there also, not really clear what is the relationship between judiciary. And sometimes we say MPs will come here and say, no, the law is still there with the judiciary is still with the, with the Ministry of Justice. The law has not reached us and we cannot go and take it from there. So in this kind of thing, what is the relationship, vulnerable, get which? First of all, as it is deflated in the Constitution, the relationship between Parliament and the executive, then we have three organs of the government. One is the legislation, which is the higher authority of the land if according to the Constitution. We have the legislation and then we have the executive and the third organ is the judiciary. Our relationship with the executive is to check, is first check of balance. That is obviously the executive and also bring the issue of accountability and transparency when they are doing their own works as a Parliament. This is our relationship with the Parliament. That's why when the bill is presented to the House, it has to be the executive presented to the House. And in that context, the Ministry of Justice is not part of the judiciary, it's part of the executive and which is in other contexts. The Ministry of Justice or any ministry is an advisor to the President or to the government in that particular portfolio. For example, the Ministry of Justice is advised of the government and when it comes to the issues related to the laws. And also, advise of the President when it comes to the matters that related to the laws. So this is how we related it. When the bill is presented, that's why any institution in the government, and the government, the government, the government, the government, the government, the government, the government, and the government. The Ministry of Justice. For the Ministry of Justice, now we present to the executive, that is to the Council of Ministers, and then from there it will be forwarded to the Parliament. This is, and then now the Parliament will take charge of the bills and then do whatever they want to do. And then, until they pass it, they went through the process of what we have talked about, the foreign stages and then pass it and then send it back to the particular institution. And then, not that particular institution, it will be sent back to the Ministry of Justice, say that they will now go and fine tune it and then now become a law. And take it to the President for a sense. This is what, this is the relationship between the executive and the Parliament. We are doing the oversight. Now, when we come to the judiciary, which is the third arms of the government, the relationship also is the same way that also we oversees the judiciary. When there's issues related to the judiciary, but the judiciary, they are not actually dealing with the laws that we had, the legislation. They are just doing the laws, the issue related to the courts and all these issues. So, but because one of the components, one of the organ of the government is also has a relationship with the government. So, our role as a member of Parliament is to oversee the executive and also the judiciary. One needs a rise. I have an addition. I think, yes, I agree that there is a three arms of government that is the legislation and then executive and then the judiciary. And three of them, they are not fighting each other. Of course, they are completely completing each other. And also, this is very important that there must be a cooperation between the three. Organs, because we are doing the same thing. I think mostly, our relationship with the executive is, actually, we oversee, you know, our role is our oversight roles on the executive, actually, in terms of passing the laws and at the same time also, the implementation of the budget. You see, when we pass the budget, also that budget must be implemented because the budget is guided and is guided with the appropriation act, which we, when we are passing the budget, with it, I think, with the judiciary, we believe that, you know, judiciary is independent. The dependence of the judiciary is there, but the dependency of the judiciary is limited also. If we look at our constitution, that is Article 122 and 224, it talks about the judiciary shall have power to educate on disputes and run the judgments in accordance with this constitution and the law. So now here, you see it talking about education. That means there will be no any interference interference from us as members of parliament. You see only on the adjudication of the disputes and the cases. But also, where do we come as parliament? We come, if you see Article 124, and that is four, four, that is three. Article 124, three, the judiciary shall be self-accounting and it is financed, it shall be subject to public audit. This is where we come as members of parliament. You know, we play our role in the oversight. Then we have power to check the accounts of the judiciary because we believe that this is a public money. And this public money, we know we should know how is suspended by the judiciary. So, and that is why we had a kind of pulling of rope with the judiciary on the issue of accountability, checking their spending. Usually, and the practice is always, they should have an accounting officer. And they don't have an accounting officer. You know, previously, they used to have a sitting judge who is in charge of their accounts, which is wrong. Because for us now, the issue of independence of the judiciary will just come. We cannot someone, you know, a justice or a judge to come to and appear before the house. If we do that, that means we are violating what has come in the constitution. So, here we, as members of parliament, when there is an accounting officer, that accounting officer is answerable plus. Then we can even call him. So, this is our relationship with the judiciary. We don't interfere in their things, but when it comes to the issue of accountability, this is where we as members of parliament, we can come in. Yeah. Thank you very much. I think we have been learning a lot. This is a whole semester in the university, or even some PhD studies and all this, that you have managed to give a very brief, just in that small part. Emmanuel, we have not forgotten you. Now, let's come to your relationship as one means political office and your relationship with our MPs and the parliament. What is that? Thank you very much, Gabriel. You know, before I address your question, you early asked why I'm here. I know people might be wondering exactly. So, in this, you know, in this program, which is intended to educate the members of the general public on the workings of our government and also, you know, how the South Sudan democracy is developing. I think the simple answer that I can give and I think you earlier indicated that unmiss is a major partner, you know, to the government in general and also to the parliament. As far as security and development, you know, are concerned. You know, for that matter, we, in animus, we do support the parliament efforts in shaping the legal, political, and socio-economic landscape of the nation through the technical support, of course, that we provide. So, now let me answer your question concerning the unmissed relationship with parliament, whether at the national level or at the state level. I would say, and I would like to actually affirm that we really enjoy a fantastic working relationship with parliament at the level of the leadership and also at the level of MPs, you know, individually. And I think for that matter, that's why you can see, you know, without even, although we all, we respect all the particles in place, but, you know, we have this open door policy, you know, that we have adopted in our relationship with the parliament. And that's why, you know, like, if I want to ask any honourable member to come, you know, to show like this democracy in action, I don't need to go through, you know, a lot of formalities, just show up in their office, and, you know, they have been very cooperative, and that's why we have, you know, the session of today. So, I can go on and on, you know, to give or to showcase how our relationship with the government and also with parliament is great, but, you know, in the interest of time, I would like to just stop here. Thank you very much, and I think the honourable George and honourable Gattuich have been doing great in this discussion, and they've been updating our people, and this is something that we have been looking for ever since. We are approaching a lot of things, and we need our people to vote and know what they are voting for, like if they understand the procedure of parliament, and somebody is aspiring to come to parliament, they sell him to. What is there, Yahui, you would not be able to? They step down, but if it is about, oh, let us send our man there, or our representative as woman there, and then they would not be up to these games, and these rules are regulations, and they will be the losers in the end. Thank you very much, and I deliberately did not mention where parties you belong to, because here, in this programme itself, you are speaking in one voice, and this is not a debate. We are educating the people, regardless of where you belong to in parliament. I mean, in the political spectrum in the country. Thank you very much, honourable. But before you conclude, I can see that you are trying to conclude, but two minutes. I think it is very important to bring it to our audience. The freedom of expressions of member parliament. As a member of parliament, the constitution and the conduct of business give you right to express your views and opinion, failing, because you are representing the people. Yes, thank you very much. So whatever is affecting the interests of the people, it is your right as a member of parliament or attack. For by that, you should not be incriminated because of that opinion that you have expressed it. Number two, but if you are caught, if you are caught red-handed, you are caught red-handed. You don't pretend that you are a member of parliament. That nod, you are right. That freedom has limited. You cannot even go and do anything simply because you are a member of parliament. When you are a member of parliament, what you should do is that you have to change everything. You have to admit your socialisations. Even the way where you eat and where you how you dress, you have to look. You have to look as a honorable. That's why because you are honored by your people to represent them. So you have to look honorable and also we have honorably. Thank you. This is what we have to do with any members of parliament. Thank you. Even also in the media, we are also asking to behave because we are some way public. Yes, absolutely. Thank you very much, honorable Gatwick Lam. Thank you very much, honorable George Andrea. Thanks very much, my colleague in the political affairs division on Miss Emmanuel Restoll for being here. Pleasure to have you and that is the end of today's democracy in action with me, Gabriel Shadar. Next week, we will have our colleague, Sonny Martin, back on the programme. Thanks for listening. Do I know what's here? [Music]