[MUSIC] >> Fan, morning, Joe, 4 7 5 9 in the fan band. And it's in Yellie, French, Eski. That was Toronto Blue Jays, general manager, Ross Atkins yesterday. He's very contrite, okay? Sorry. Sorry, sorry that you had to watch the previous 100 plus game. Sorry that you have to continue to watch what they're going to put forth. The remaining 60-ish games took a long time to learn that word, Ben. >> Sorry, yeah. >> I really did. >> It's an important one. >> Very important. >> My sons don't want to say it. >> Good. >> Yes, one of the earliest lessons I taught them. >> Manage. >> It's important. Owning up to your mistakes, it's important. Sorry for this season, he said he didn't say sorry for not winning a division title, not winning a postseason game during the near decade of his tenure as general manager of the Toronto Blue Jays, but he's the general manager. There has not been a change at that position. As we said earlier, I think we're both kind of in lockstep, but it does feel like there's one more run it back season considering Mark Shapiro's contractual status. Anyways, Blue Jays are bad. We can all agree. And in this era of three wildcard teams in each league, you have to be really bad to be out of it, out out of it, out of it before August. You have to be actively terrible. Blue Jays have accomplished that goal. There was no debate. There wasn't even a Rangers who are the defending world series champion. So it was a different deal altogether. But there was no like, man, even the division titles got closed. And obviously the talent's here and we got some healthy guys coming back. Can we do a hybrid thing? There's no debate about what the Blue Jays were going to do and what they did. And with the loss yesterday in Baltimore, they fall back to eight games under 500. The nine games back of the third wildcard in the American League. By the way, though, like the third wildcard, it's actually considering how low the bottom end of the American League league is. That third wildcard is 10 games over 500. The Royals are 59 and 49. The Red Sox is surprising as they've been or not in a playoff spot right now. They're two games back at 56 and 50. Anyways, Blue Jays are so bad that they're not in the playoff mix despite having three wildcard teams in both leagues. Now last year, they weren't very good either, right? I got. Objectively, yes. They were not very good. They were good enough to make the playoffs, but in baseball, not very good teams now make the playoffs. Yep. In other sports, look at the bottom end of the playoff field, the NBA and the NHL, some bad teams. It's come to baseball now. Bad teams make the playoffs, not not like horrible teams, but like not good teams. Actually, that's a better way to put it. Blue Jays were not good last year. They weren't bad. They weren't good. They're average. They were slightly above average, 81 and 81 would have been average. They were 89. There you go. Okay. Sure. And there was a way that you could convince yourself that, hey, all the offensive struggles that you had watched for 162 games, they would correct themselves. And because of the strength of the pitching and because of the strength of the bullpen, which was one of the areas that was addressed at the deadline, okay, throw the 162 games out the window, chip in a chair, postseason, it's all going to come together. I guess there is a scenario where this team could have been 500, right? Like if Vladimir Guerrero Jr. doing now, what he's doing was doing that in April, basically the only month that he wasn't doing this though, frankly, because May was very good in June. Oh my God. July has been unreal. Exactly. Yeah. If Boba shed hadn't been actively bad all season long and had been healthy, if George Springer had have been even this guy, which is basically what he was a season ago, league average offensive player playing plus defense in a corner outfield spot. If he'd been good, if Justin Turner didn't have the horrible, like there was a scenario this season where they're not eight games under 500. Now, not a scenario in which they're good, but a scenario in which there are around 500 and it's kind of a similar scenario to what they had in 2023, where it was like, okay, should we sell? Should we buy? I mean, the core is getting older. How many more kicks of the can do we have of this thing? You certainly wouldn't have had the situation we had yesterday where everybody who's depending for age and sent out the door. Is it? And then you, I guess you have to convince yourself, chip in the chair, if you get into the postseason, that being said, you know, the talent level is not the same as the teams at the top of the playoff field, whether that's the Orioles or the Yankees or the Astros or Cleveland, whatever. Is it a blessing then that the Blue Jays are as bad as they are and had those horrible starts to put them in a position where the playoffs were never a real possibility going back to a month ago? Quick answer, yes. That's exactly you use the word that popped into my mind right away as you're going down this path. I was going to say, my first line was going to be, boy, it's kind of a blessing they were in this position because it made the decision very clear, very decisive. There's no way you can, A, the front office could sit there and trying to deceive the fan base and into thinking that there was a path here for this team, this iteration of the Jays in 2024 to be good or a team that could do damage into playoffs. We just experienced that last year. They spent an entire calendar year in 2023 trying to rationalize why things were going to eventually work out. And record wise, I know, 89 wins, like, again, you know, we, we, I think that how we define good teams and baseball has now evolved because of the third wildcard. But being 89 and 73, the record is passable. It's, it's commendable and they were a playoff team. Fine. But we all knew as we sat there and had to endure 162 games, it felt like an absolute drag to watch that team at times. It was not fun. It was skin of your teeth, game the game, just escaping thanks to your pitching and your defense with zero offense guys that you were relying upon to be key offensive contributors that were underperforming. You know, Bo had a really unbalanced good season. If it wasn't for the injuries, as you mentioned earlier, Ben, he probably is in a position to potentially win another hitting title, batting title in the American league. So that was unfortunate. But we still had ample questions when game 163 rolled around, okay, they made it. What are we going to see? Like we had no earthly idea other than saying, I guess they're going to pitch well, I guess, but is anybody going to hit the ball answer? No, nobody decided to show up and hit the ball. They scored one run. So we already went and endured this for a full calendar year of Ross Atkins and Mark Shapiro sitting there and talking about why you should have faith and belief and confidence in those players and in that team. Okay, I cannot tell you how crestfallen, how upset I would have been if we would be sitting here today and the team is 55 and 55 or 54 and 53, whatever the imagination of it would have been through 108 games and we were sitting here and we had to try and talk ourselves into. Well, you know what? If you kind of squint, maybe if you viewed it through like on a 45 degree angle, I can see it. I'm so glad we don't have to have that conversation. And frankly, I really am because it was evident what they needed to do. They did it. Yeah. We can be dubious about what that means for next year, but they actually know the decision was taken out of their hands and that was important. Yeah. And if that had happened and they hadn't sold everything off or done like a hybrid buy sell thing and either just made the playoffs and bowed out early in the postseason or just missed the playoffs, situation would still be the same where they'd be trying to compete in 2025, except they wouldn't have the assets that they'd now accumulated in trade of the pending free agents. Now again, who knows how good those guys are going to be? I think the pieces you got back in the use of Kukchi deal are going to be major league contributors to this team this season, but that's not saying much. There's no players on this team anymore. They're all gone. So like, yeah, John Shiner, he's struggling to fill up the lineup. Yeah. He's got nobody. Yeah, now you're in so you're in at the end of the season, you're likely in the same spot as you would have been if some of the higher level outcomes had been achieved by some of these individual players and you had either made the playoffs by the skinnier teeth or just missed, except now you have assets. And while this team probably would benefit longer term by not necessarily competing in 2025, that's the deal here because of the length of the front office's tenure. And now you have more weapons at your disposal. Again, that being said, it gets always just better in the immediacy to watch a baseball team that is a chance to win day. Of course. I'm not blind to that reality and we do a lot and working in this industry too close to it, right? Like the average fan just wants to see a baseball team with a chance to win and even a playoff mix. But I'm just talking about like, if you just take a step back, the view of this baseball team, I don't think there's any debate that it's better. Even if like long term, you think of more than one year, but let's just use that example of 2025. It's better for 2025 that the Blue Jays were actively bad in 2024 to one accumulate the assets that you can now use either to fill out roster spots on your team in 2025 or use them in trade to acquire major league talent. And also to make it abundantly clear to this front office how much of an improvement some areas of this team need, specifically the offense, specifically the bullpen and to a lesser extent, the starting rotation. So I mentioned the guys that brought in here, one of the top 100 prospect in Jake Bloss, who was optioned to Buffalo, but Ross Atkins and his media availability yesterday said, like, hey, once the dust settles, we'll figure out where everybody's going to go. And obviously we want to see a lot of these guys at the major league level. Yeah. Who do you prioritize seeing the rest of the season because the Blue Jays, even before these trades had some guys that you're like, Oh, what are you at the major league level? Sure. I think I'm getting a little closer on Spencer Horowitz to knowing what he is. David Schneider, maybe we're closer to knowing what he is. I think there's still a lot to be decided on Addison Barger, Leo Jimenez. And of course, like that's dependent on Boba Shet's return. And when that happens, but you got a couple of guys again that have seen major league time already in Bloss, Class A, and Joey Loperfito, who is already in the major leagues for this Blue Jays team. But if those guys are playing, I mean, somebody else isn't playing. Who do you prioritize if you're the Blue Jays as far as the final couple of months of the regular season? Number one on my list would be Loperfito, frankly, because he's a position player. That if we even project to what opening day 2025 might look like, there is a very clear spot, a very clear hole and position that he could occupy in theory for them. They have now with the Kevin Kiermaier trade finally, this this transition has finally occurred. Dalton Varsho is the center fielder. Thank God. Like that should have happened in the off season, honestly. But here we are. It took a little bit longer than probably was necessary, but he is now going to be the center fielder of today and tomorrow and the future. George Springer is going to be in right field. Contractually it is what it is. He's going to be there. But as you alluded to Ben, if you can get league average production offensively, you'll take it because he's still giving you a really good defensive value out in right field. It's that left field spot that could be where Joey Loperfito either factors in as the quote unquote starter or is in some kind of platoon where he's getting regular at bats. He's number one on my list. Number two would then be Jake Bloss. Very obvious because if Jake Bloss and we probably won't know the full extent or the answer to this question for at least a few seasons, but if he somehow becomes a third or fourth starter in your rotation, you've done exceptionally well in that trade. It's very difficult to make those types of trades and that kind of return in an era of baseball where you can tell teams are very finicky, very particular about how they move and maneuver with starting pitching. They're very reticent to trade guys like that who have ample control and on top of that, have enough of enough of an upside where it's almost a guarantee that they're going to be able to pitch in a major league rotation pending health. So he's number two on my list. And then Klossay. I know they're very high on them. They think his ceiling is insanely high, but there are a lot of really interesting tantalizing qualities there. Where does that come at the expense of in terms of playing time? I think really the only guy out of the sort of Buffalo Brigade, the bunch that we've already seen that I want, I think we, I still need more from, I need to see more because I don't know that we have a full definitive case closed decision or idea of who he is, is Davis Schneider. Frankly, is Davis Schneider? Like I'm with you. I think Horowitz, I know what he is, Clement on the on the best high end of the spectrum. My belief is Ernie Clement is probably a bench piece for you. He's probably your 24th or 23rd 24th man, and he gives, and there's utility there. That's totally fine. He can, he's a, he's a fine defender. He has utility as a base runner. We've seen him at least now step into the box and be more threatening on occasion as a hitter. Great. He grades out as that bench piece for you, but really, the only guy I still don't really have a, I can't point my finger on it in terms of what he is, fully is Davis Schneider. What are you, Davis Schneider, because we've seen you at your peak where you've been this incredibly prodigious, effective offensive hitter going through these insanely extensive hot stretches. And then we've seen you go months on end where you can't seem to buy a hit and you can't seem to factor in on a regular basis. So what are you? He's the only one I kind of circle, I say, I still don't know what they haven't him fully. Yeah, I'm getting closer on that. I think it's a situation where of all the production you've gotten out of the Buffalo guys, and as good as they've been at times, and as much as they've hit the ground running a lot of them, including Leo Jimenez, you only want to really have them occupying one spot in your lineup next season, that second base, like any combination for Spencer Horowitz, Davis Schneider at second base, I think you're okay with the level of production that you're getting. I think Davis Schneider, the idea that he needs to be an everyday player, I think is not necessarily true. I think Davis Schneider can put forth pretty good at bat. I think your bench is basically figured out. Hey, here's, I'm going to go for the list of the things the Blue Jays need in 2025. Benchpieces, they got it. They're loaded. They're loaded. A lot of guys who can sit on the bench and then some outfield defenders and some guys that can pinch hit, like platoon, like lefty comes into the game, Davis Schneider picking up a bat. Here he comes. You're good there. I think that's probably Davis Schneider's ultimate destiny, the occasional start. I think it's the place that a lot of people were at the beginning of the season and I wasn't. I was like, can I at least see what this guy is? And yeah, he's had slumps as every major leaguer does, but I think the upside is a guy that, yeah, if he plays a whole season as an everyday player, probably not going to give you that much above average offense and considering that he's not a plus defender, he's like a league average guy, which is good considering his pedigree. But yeah, that he's an occasional starter. Maybe he gets the occasional start against lefties at second base over Spencer Horowitz. Although Spencer Horowitz doesn't have like huge platoon splits, but whatever, he's a lefty and he's not going to play every game anyways. So that's where I'm with Davis Schneider. Addison Barger, I'm still curious. I mean, the production, he hit his first home run, was a major league career against the Orioles. That's cool. Like, he's the one guy that like, if you had your brothers and you're like, which one of these guys would you want to be a thing? He's the guy because if he was able to translate the power numbers that he's shown at Buffalo, what a weapon that would be, especially, and then, you know, the arm from the outfield, sure, that would be great. But I think the more we see of Addison Barger, he might be one of those quad-aid type guys that might, his skillset might not translate to the major league level. I want to see Will Wagner at third base. Also, I mean, when you're talking about seeing the guys that they acquired in trade and maybe lapping off some of the playing time for the current Toronto Blue Jays, Spencer Horowitz doesn't deserve not to play. So there's going to be a delicate balance here. Hey, George Springer doesn't not want to play despite the fact that he's making his money. Like he wants to play even for a team that has no chance of making the playoffs. But does that mean George Springer is like almost your full-time DH? I'd be open to that possibility. Also saving some miles on the tires here. But yeah, Class A absolutely need to see, want to see low-perfido we're going to see. He's in the major leagues right now. Jake Bloss is going to be part of this rotation. He was in the Astros' rotation before they consummated the trade for Usay Kikuchi. Maybe it's one start in Buffalo, maybe it doesn't even make a start in Buffalo. Yeah, you might not. Jake Bloss is going to be on this team. I think we're going to see all four of those guys. And those are the guys that are most interested in and how they factor in to this team as far as where the openings are on this team for 2025 and the areas that they need to address. So you mentioned it. Left field. I don't think having some combination of Davis Schneider, or honestly, barring some incredible run the last two months of the season, it's hard to imagine Blue Jays go into the off-season feeling comfortable with, you know, Jonathan Class A, Joey Low-perfido, and Davis Schneider, some combination in left field. That's an area they're going to have to address in the off-season. Third base, they need a third baseman. Clear as day. You need somebody to play third base for this team next season. DH, but I mean, it's just another bat. You just need to add three bats. I think pretty clearly this team needs to add three bats. You don't need to add a DH specific player. I think they have done that road before, too. They've done it a couple of times. Yeah, Brandon Belt might have been a better option than Justin Turner, but yeah, it obviously clogs. It gums up the works when you have to do that. They need at least one more starting pitcher to go with Jose Barrios, Kevin Gossman, Chris Bassett. And Uriel Rodriguez, who's definitely in the mix, and you hope that he's closer to the pitch limit isn't at 100 pitches. And you also hope that that start against the Orioles is not indicative of anything. And then that's just a bump in the road. Yeah. Generally, he's been an effective starter in his first tour of duty as a starter in Major League Baseball. And then, yeah, Jake Bloss, but what we've learned over the last couple of years, you need more than that? The blue judges are going to have to add to that. The bullpen is an area where, I don't know how you do it. I mean, it needs an entire overhaul, Chad Greene, I mean, we talked about Chris Bassett not being shopped in earnest at the deadline. There was some smoke around Chad Greene in the New York Yankees, and you'd like to know exactly what the return could have been if they decided, hey, I know our bullpen stinks and he's the only good guy and we need to remake it and makes it even more difficult to do that if we have no Chad Greene. But Yankees are giving us such and such for him that didn't materialize. So he's their best reliever going into next season because I'm removing Jordan Romano from the equation entirely. He's on the 60-day injured list right now. I mean, there's a possibility he's non-tendered and you've seen the last of him as a Toronto Bluejay. Janis Escobar. Okay, he's a guy. I don't know. Is Eric Swanson what he was a season ago? Like, the reliever, so I don't know what you can count. The blue jays might need like five bullpen arms this offseason, which is like, it's better than five starting pitchers, but the bullpen needs an entire overhaul this offseason. Yeah, the bullpen needs a complete makeover. I mean, there's no doubt about it. You're 100% spot on in terms of identifying which guys, I guess, are going to be in theory part of the bullpen. And maybe that factored into why they're like, ah, Chad Greene, God, if we move him, we really got nobody. We're throwing Jose Quas out there right now and we can ill afford to be in a position where if something goes sideways for us in the offseason, then man, oh man, the bullpen's not going to look good. The interesting thing with bullpen's too is, as we know, they're very fickle. They're incredibly finicky, but at the same time, you can fix them pretty quickly. If you're shrewd in how you approach it and if it's a combination of making, you know, some, maybe it's an under rate under the trade that goes under the radar. A couple of those moves in the office and they were like, okay, it's such and such, whatever, ends up being a valuable piece for you, a valuable commodity. And then you're signing a couple guys off of the free agent market that are going to factor in and you give them a more prominent role. But I think, yeah, Jordan Romano, people, obviously he's such a beloved figure in the city and rightfully so, Canadian guy, I mean, never mind Canadian guy, GTA guy, for that matter and who's had a terrific run as a closer for this book, from the baseball team. But you can operate with him being somebody you're going to rely upon in any capacity going into 2025. So that is certainly the area that seems to, at least on paper, require the, the most extensive work because they quite literally don't have anybody right now that you feel semi-confident in stepping on a mount in a meaningful game in April of 2025. And then when it comes to the other spots, like I even wrote it down, I think Ben, I guess in, if we had to even project it right now, if we're looking at it, how many spots are we saying confidently today, we know who player, if we had to assign a player name to a specific position for opening day 2025. How many spots are there that we can confidently say, okay, yes, that is so such and such is going to be there. Vladi, let's put him in pencil, like first base 2025, okay, then what like how many do you see on the roster right now that you would say, Alejandro Kirk is going to be part of the catching solution. You need to add, and you need to add a catcher as well and maybe it's a reuniting with Danny Jansen. I mean, Dalton Varshos, your center fielder, correct? And because of contractual status, George Springer, your right fielder, both shuts your shortstop if he's not dealt in the off season. Okay. And I think I would, I put, I added Horowitz into the mix, that second base, like I think in some capacity, he's probably there. But for me, and I, and I excluded Bo just because we don't really like, we don't know. And obviously if he's on the roster, yes, without a shadow of a doubt, he's your everyday shortstop. And he's in that position, but that, that still leaves you with a lot of question marks everywhere else. Like it's that simple. No matter how we kind of spin it, and we look at it through whatever prison we want to, there's just so much work that needs to be done. It's not like we can kind of squint and say, oh, there are like two or three moves away from being back in a position where they're going to, you know, they're like, it goes back to what's the goal? If the goal is to get into the wild card, sure, I guess make four or five transactions and maybe you get lucky and a few things break your way, you're right back there. But if you want to actually win a playoff game or playoff series, you know, heaven forbid, then there's a lot that needs to be done here. >> No question. We'll get back into the blue Jays after eight o'clock, but when we come back, Dan Shulman removing himself from the baseball conversation, we'll see how much trade deadline information got filtered all over to Europe in France, because he's obviously calling the basketball at the Olympic Games. We'll talk to Dan Shulman from across the pond next as the fan morning show continues, Ben N.S. Daniele Franceski sports net 590 the fan unrivaled insight analysis and opinions on all things blue Jays Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. >> I mean, he was much better at the raptor than he was in Nick this past season, one of the few bright spots around that raptor's team. I wonder if his performance at this Olympic Games impacts his upcoming season. I mean, there's going to be more miles on the tires, I suppose, but he's not Kevin Durant where like, yeah, he's touching go to play 45 games, like he's going to play. I mean, I think there's a possibility this could be a huge, like he's going to hit the ground running for this Raptors team this upcoming season. >> He will. >> So it's interesting, like he's always been such a good female player, Ben, like this is something that goes back to even when if you recall, he helped guide a, what was it? >> 2018. >> 2018? >> Yeah. >> And he was younger. And yeah, beating the Americans as the best player on the team, he's done this routinely every time he's put on a Canadian injury. He was very good at the World Cup last year. I think what stands out most is maybe the quote unquote efficiency aspect. But here's what's great about him. The greatest thing about what you're seeing is it's how he always had this narrative surrounding him, especially with the Knicks, that he was like a ball stopper. Once the ball hit his hands, right, it's stuck. And he was a guy that would try to generate offense while not necessarily having the craftiness overall to do it and finish that shot instead of Zion Williams and a Duke. >> And yet what we're seeing here in this environment is he's their leading scorer. But how, it feels like the ball's going in and out of his hands and it's quick decisions. It's decisive. It's just been really efficient and he's been excellent. He really has. >> I see Canadian man's national team has been excellent through two games as mentioned. You can wrap up group play against Spain on Friday on the call of that game as he was on the call of the first two. Dan Shulman, who joins us now from France. How's it going? Dan. >> Good morning back there. Good afternoon here. How you guys doing? >> Doing very well, we'll get to the basketball just a second, but it's like a quick thought from you on. The deadline did it. Like, how did you consume it? Because it was midnight last night, I guess in Paris time, were you keeping an eye on it? Like obviously your attention is elsewhere, but I mean, I imagine you were paying somewhat attention to it. >> I was, but I've been going to sleep a little bit before midnight. We've been going pretty hard with two games today and I'm still kind of getting adjusted. So there were a couple of days like I woke up to the Kukuchi news and I woke up to, I guess, the kind of a left the news. >> The last one? >> The closest one. >> It was Keir Meyers. >> Yeah, Keir Meyers was the last one. >> And the Keir Meyers as well. Yeah. So a couple of times I was waking up and seeing things on my phone, but I was trying to keep up on it obviously. As much as possible, I don't profess to be an expert on prospects or anything like that, but obviously it sounds like they did really well or, you know, got a good return in the Kukuchi deal. I mean, who knows, right, like all I know is eight guys I know aren't going to be there when I get back. It's going to be a whole different clubhouse, it's strange, but I think this was the prudent course of action. I mean, they had to try to get more into the system and more young talent and if loss can be a starter next year, if Loper Fido can be an outfielder next year, like if they've got a couple of guys who can help them in 25 that makes the whole wanting to contend in 25 things seem a little bit more reasonable. They've still got a lot of work to do, obviously, but, you know, now we know what the next couple of months is going to look like and we're going to see a lot of the guys auditioning for next year. >> Yep. It's going to be about evaluating those young guys and seeing who fits into the equation for 2025. But in the immediacy, there are gold medals to win or at least, you know, medals to win for this Canadian men's basketball team and I don't want to put, you know, gold on their list of expectations because the Americans still exist and they're not even playing Jason Tatum in games with one of the better players in an NBA Finals just a couple of months ago. But I mean, they just beat the defending bronze medalists in the Australians. Is it unfair to say that anything short of a medal is a disappointment now for this Canadian men's national team? >> Well, the only thing I would say is, you know, because it's FIBA, it can get weird in terms of quarter final matchups. And so let me say this, if they win against Spain, they are guaranteed not to play the United States in the quarter final, assuming the United States wins its four. Let's go with that assumption. So, but they could still wind up playing like Serbia in the quarter finals. What is a distinct possibility? It's really complicated with pots of teams and this and that and it would take a long time to go through it. So, yes, I would love to see them get a medal. Yes, I think it would be wonderful. But if you wind up playing Serbia in the quarter finals and you lose that game, I mean, it's Serbia with Yokich, you know, the defending silver medalists in the World Cup last year. So I think we got to kind of take it game by game and see how it goes. If they can beat Spain and beat them handily and get up a top two seed and then get an easier quarter final, like I think that's really what you're looking for. But a lot of things have to fall into place for that to happen. Like, you know, Germany's point differential matters. The fact Serbia got beat by 26 to the U.S. matters. All this stuff is interconnected. So, but they're doing great so far. I would hate to see it end in the quarters, because I think they're better than that. But again, this is sometimes, you know, again, a few of sometimes the draws, the draws. So I think we got to, you know, play it out for a couple of more days, see who they stack up against in the quarter finals and then, you know, maybe revisit. Dan, when you say the format is complicated, boy, boy, boy, you aren't kidding, man. I tried looking through this yesterday and figuring out what would be the merits of winning that game on Friday versus not losing it. But if so, if they, you know, went a different route and were maybe more protective of some of their key rotation players, how would that evolve? And what would it mean for where they sort of grayed out in terms of the placing and placement for the quarter finals and beyond? And it's just like, it is, it's like, it's like a jigsaw puzzle. It is so difficult to comprehend how it all works. And so I'm like you, I'm basically trying to go on a game by game basis here. I can get you the short version, if you like, real short version. I mean, look, I just need to know, okay, how about this? Like, put it this way. Let's say what is the best path for them to not see the United States until the final? Like, is there enough of a path that we can paint that picture to understand what it would look like for them to avoid seeing them? From what I understand, that means they would have to, let's say, again, the US is the top seat. So let's say Canada beats Spain. There are three and oh, US is three and oh, Germany's three and oh, just hypothetically in the three groups. They get seated, the eight teams get seated one through eight, but it's not necessarily one plays eight, two plays seven, three plays six, four plays five. First of all, you can't play a team in your own pool. So which, which makes sense, obviously, you want to play a team they haven't played before. So what they do is they put one and two in a pot and seven and eight in a pot. So if you're one, you're going to play seven or eight, but the first thing they look at is, is there a team from your pool in that other pot? If there is, then it's automatically you're going to play. If it's not, then it's random. So all right. So let me back up a sec. So so you get that if, if there are two and the US is one, they're going to be on the other side of the draw from the US that that we all get. But for them to be two, they've got to be ahead of whoever wins the Germany France pool. And right now, say it's Germany, Germany's got a better point differential than Canada. Now that change, Canada beats Spain by 14 and Germany beats France by three or something like that. That can change. So here's the bad news. If they're, even if they win their pool, but if they're the three seat, now they're in the three, four pots, the three, four pot is up against the five, six pot. So the, if one of those teams is like Australia or Spain or something in that five, six pot, they can't play them because they're in the same pool. Well, who's the other one? Well, it could be Serbia because they look like they'll finish second in their pool, but because they got smoked by the US, their point differential is going to be bad. And they could be even worse to seed, which would be the six seat. So I know, man, we've all, that was the short version of our life, not the short version. That's a wild, right. So this was why, like how much Serbia beats Puerto Rico by matters? How much Germany and friends, like everything, this is the, it's a tangled web. And that's why so Ben, when you asked, you know, metal or disappointment, I kind of hold back on that because sometimes the sea, but God's just say, sorry, you guys, we're going to screw you. And then it's just the way it works. And so that's why every, and I know you guys, if you've been watching it, Perkins say, you know, play to the last position, you know, Dylan Brooks hits a, Dylan Brooks hits a three at the end of the Australia game. Like what if those three points make the difference between being the two seat and the three seat, where if you're the three seat, you play Serbia. If you're the two seat, you play Brazil or South Sudan or somebody like, that's big. So that's why you go hard. So anyway, sorry, that's the short version. No. And I appreciate that. Yes. I do. I was following along and I did follow it. All that being said, and yeah, you're right, like a quarter final match against Serbia. That's, that's naughty. And Canada just lost to Serbia, right? In the, the semifinals of the FIBO Americas and Serbia, Serbia lost to Germany in that tournament. But that was without Jamal Murray and I was like, we were just starting to understand what a, what a, a fully fledged Canadian men's basketball team looks like with Shagil just Alexander and this edition of it and the lockdown defense they can play with the, the Dorture chamber, Lou Dort. I'm just, I mean, even against Serbia, anybody outside of the United States, and we're talking about varying degrees of disappointment, I think Canada is better than Serbia. And I know nobody's Nicola Yochich and, and obviously size would be a problem for the, the Canadian team, but they just played you honest and Greece is not Serbia. I'm just saying that even in a matchup against Serbia, anybody that's not the United States, there's a level of disappointment if Canada can't beat them. Well, yeah, I think there's, I think that's a fair statement to a reasonable extent. I mean, there's no question. All I'm saying is they beat Canada last year without Yochich. And as you said, Canada has added Jamal Murray. I think we'd all agree though, adding Yochich to Serbia right now is more than adding Murray to Canada. But I also do think that this Canadian team has continued to jail and is getting better. And I also want to say the names of Andrew Nemhard, Trey Liles and Cambridge, like this team is much, much deeper. If you go back and look at the minutes played in the World Cup, Jordi Fernandez had to ride his top seven hard, like really hard. If I'm not mistaken, and I might be, but if I'm not mistaken, Melvin Edgeham and Phil Scrub were eight, nine and minutes on the World Cup team that won a bronze medal. And this is not disrespecting them at all. You understood there that they've been great, great, great competitors for Canada all over the world for over a decade and they're terrific players in Europe. But Canada has brought in more talent, more depth this year. When you can have Andrew Nemhard out there, whenever Shay Gilchis Alexander is in, you've got an NBA caliber point guard. We saw what, I, Denver, I, Denver is a great FIFA player. He was great. Nobody, nobody, but the weirdos like me who got up at four in the morning to watch it saw it. But he was, and Canada didn't do well, but in the World Cup in 2019 in China, he was great, like great. Now, Canada didn't have a good team. They finished 21st, but he and Corey Joseph were the two best players on that team that I can remember anyways in, in 2019. And he was really good yesterday, as you guys saw, against Australia, Trey Liles is a, is a good player. He can get them stuff. And then there's Jamal Murray, who I thought was much better in the second game than the first game. I know we went two for seven shooting and that's the first thing that everybody looks at. But I thought in the first game, whether he just didn't have his legs underneath him or was just, this was his first real FIFA game in a decade or nine years and he was still getting used to it. I don't know. But I thought he was much better than the second game. He had five assists. He had a blocked shot. He played well. And I think there's a, whether it's spoken or unspoken, I don't know, but still, this is Shay Gilgis Alexander's team, when the five guys are on the court. And it sounds like Jamal Murray is okay with that. It sounds like he's okay being one of many Robbins to Shay's Batman. And maybe that's not even fair because RJ Barrett's playing so, so well right now that he's got to be discussed. I mean, and I heard you guys talking about him just before I came on, but yeah, this Canadian team is better than the World Cup team. I think they played the second half they played against Australia. I think is the best half of the four halves that they have played so far. I think they can beat Spain, you know, can they beat him by 15 or 20? I don't know, but they're going to try because they're going to try to run up that point differential. I do believe the France germany game is after the Canada Spain game. So France and Germany will know exactly what they have to need to do. But again, you know, so be it in fever, but it's been, you know, I know for you guys back home and for me, said that the arena, it's been unbelievably exciting, like to see them get pushed hard in both games and find a way to win and to see Shay continue to do that stuff that he's done and to see RJ Barrett play like he is. And I know one of you guys mentioned ludort. I love ludort, like Lord, the more ludort plays, the better Canada does. It's a funny thing about ludort. Every single game he plays and he's got the best plus minus and I tweeted it out. You might not have seen it, but this goes back to the World Cup too, like a plus minus can be a little bit of a funky misleading static basketball, but not always. Every single game ludort has the best plus minus on the team and, you know, if he could just be ludort at the defensive end and knock down a couple of threes, you know, go two for five threes, I mean, it's huge for Canada. He gives Shae Gil just allocated or an easier defensive assignment because Dorit's going to pick up that guy. So, and I think there's still room to grow, I think Andrew Nemhardt can play better. I think Murray can get better. I think they need a little bit more from the heel Alex Andrew Walker, even though he's in a smaller role and was very excited to see what Tim Burch did because now we can see the Jordi Fernandez. It isn't necessarily going to be just Powell and Alinek and I've got to say Dwight Powell's name because what a dude he is, right, and just in doing all the dirty stuff. But it's not necessarily going to be Powell and Alinek, it could be Powell and Lyles or Powell and Burch or whatever the case may be. I think Jordi Fernandez is coaching his tail off game by game to make and all the necessary adjustments that have to be made and I've been using this analogy, always sort of described the pecking order that I see with this team. If Shae Gil just Alexander equates to what is the engine of this team, then the three pieces that sort of form the ignition that like the spark, it's RJ Barrett, it's ludort, it's still in Brooks. Like that's the heart of the team really deep down and I think it just speaks to overall how you have Shae as the head of the snake and everybody else, the rest of the roster. It's just littered with really good complimentary pieces. It's great to see Jamal Murray starting to assimilate himself after, you know, missing get part of camp and being away from the team for 11 days. There's a lot to obviously be excited about the biggest thing and I did want to get your take on this because you sort of alluded to it briefly. The one thing that's really stood out most in the first two games, it's the composure. I couldn't help but sit there and watch those two games and think Canada teams of yester year would have lost those games, but this team just feels to seems to have a better feel and sense for the moment and they don't shy away from those pressure situations. They run to them. They really embrace them unlike any other Canada team that I've ever watched. Yeah, I don't think there's any jitters or stage right or anything like that. I think that's gone and I think probably that's shaving shade, right? I mean, when your best player has it, there's probably a trickle down and I'm sure Kelly Olympic and Dwight Powell have all kinds of inspirational words in the locker room and halftime for games and all that like they're not newbies anymore either as a group or individually. You know, and that's why the World Cup was so incredible. I don't know if people remember this, they played eight games at the World Cup. The World Cup is a bigger, longer tournament than the Olympics is. The most you can play at the Olympics is six and you know, they were down to France in the first game of the World Cup blew about five thirty. Then they beat Latvia, then they had the Spain game and I think that Spain game, we will look back on it for a 12, 20, 30 years from now and say that was the game that changed the program because that's a game that past Canadian teams lose and they found a way to win it. Yeah, Gilchis Alexander was driving the bus on that, but then you know, to keep going, to beat Luca, they beat Slovenia last year and then to beat the U.S. and everything. I mean, it was just the Spain game came after the disappointment to Brazil though, because the Brazil game was the one we're like, Oh my God, all the girls are back. Right. Right. And they bounce back. All the demons came back. You're exactly right. That's a great point. Right. And then they found a way to exercise the demons. 10 to Spain came back and tied went down 12 again and came back in one and in past years like there's no chance. So I think their confidence, their togetherness, their belief in themselves is all a hundred percent true. You guys will remember when they were playing the U.S. and they're up late in regulation. I can't remember who hit the three in the corner. McHale bridges, maybe hit the three and it was bridges. Yeah. Right. And they go to over time and we didn't find this out until, right, impossibly and we didn't find this out until after the game, but in the huddle before overtime when they should be emotionally reeling, Kelly Olympics is in this school, we get to play five more minutes together. Amazing. I mean, right. That's the stuff they give you. Sure. It's a composure too. Let me say this. Dylan Brooks, you know, everybody knows Dylan Brooks, right? And he has been not good. He's been extraordinary for Canada in the World Cup in the first two games. But even in the World Cup once or twice, we saw him walk that Dylan Brooks line. We haven't really seen that yet. I thought there was one questionable foul we committed in game one, none of that in game two. And, you know, he can be Dylan the villain, but still stay in the game, right? And if he's on your side, he's not a villain. And the fact that they didn't other than Shay getting the two fouls very early in the first quarter, they didn't have Brooks and Dork foul trouble in the second game. They probably only did because they were guarding Giannis in the first game, right? Giannis fouls people have more anybody, but they kept those guys on the floor and being able to have Dylan Brooks whenever you need Dylan Brooks is incredibly important for this team. There are some games they might not need them, like maybe the Spain game. He's not on Alabama. You know, maybe Dwight Powell is on all that. I don't know what they're going to do, but the ability to have Dylan Brooks for whatever situation you need Dylan Brooks to me is one of the tipping points or real wild cards for this team. He's been great and it shows you how deep the team is that it took about 10, 12 minutes in our conversation before we brought it up, right? How many how many guys they have playing well right now, but it's it's super fun. I hope it's coming across on the TV. I don't know how many people are watching or how many people are waking up early to do it. But I hope it's super fun here. I'll tell you that. Dan, it's definitely coming across. It's been so fun and you can tell that you're having the time of your life as well, Dan. I appreciate you doing this today and yeah, we'll be watching and listening and the women's team getting back underway tomorrow against Australia as well. Thanks for doing this, Dan. All right, guys. Hope everything's good back home. See you soon. See you. Thanks. There's Dan Schulman calling the basketball in France. Yeah, that I okay. So I mentioned the Brazil game in the World Cup, which is the forgotten game, but that's the reason why the Spain game. Yeah, that was Spain was their opponent and was winner take all to get to the Olympics because they blew it against Brazil who stinks. It's got like 60 points in the Brazil game. And it was every moment where you thought, okay, finally, the golden generation is going to show up and didn't show up. That was it was in the Brazil game. But ever since the Brazil game in every moment where that could have happened, it hasn't. Because of one guy and it's the one guy that you shouldn't feel that's the reason why you shouldn't feel afraid and to shake guilt just Alexander totally and it just it changes everything watching this team. All right, time now for the wake and rake presented by sports interaction. Your homegrown sports book 19 plus bet responsibly. Blue Jays wrapping up their series against the Orioles and the Orioles naturally minus 222 favorites against Paulo Espino plus 180 are the Blue Jays, the totals nine in this one. What's the mine? What's the run line for the Orioles? It is yeah, minus a run and a half minus 115. Maybe today is the day Gunnar Henderson ends up, what has been a pretty extensive home release drought. Maybe it's today against Paulo Espino. Yeah, you can't argue with that, I don't mind the over nine also at minus 120 in this baseball game. All right, that was the wake and rake presented by sports interaction. Your homegrown sports book 19 plus bet responsibly. All right, when we come back, we'll talk to Shai Davidi as the fan morning show continues Van Ness, Danielle E. Franceschi, Sportsnet 590, the fan.
