[MUSIC] We've got work to do, what happened to this year is not acceptable. And we've got to drill down and ensure that we're building a better roster. Ensure that we are following through on creating a more dynamic, a more balanced roster that complements one another, especially in the run scoring environment, and improve upon that. And this was a step towards it. >> Yeah, there has to be a correction. It's unacceptable where we've gotten to be at this point. And as I said, I'm deeply sorry for that. We've worked hard to not just say we have to be better, but find the opportunities to do so. We think finding a more balanced roster that we need to build a better roster, where individuals complement each other better. And this is one step towards that. We're gonna lean into making sure that happens. >> But there are many fans who are upset that believe that you shouldn't have been the one to execute this deadline. What do you have to say to those fans specifically? >> I mean, the things that I've said that I'm sorry we're at this point. I am accountable, it's unacceptable, and I'm gonna go to work each day. I can to build that confidence back. >> All right, fan morning show, Sportsnet 5.9 to the fan. Ben and Stanley, Franceski, filling in for Brent Gunning. It's over every single pending free agent now traded away from the Toronto Blue Jays before six o'clock yesterday, including a couple of guys who had team control remaining. Isaiah, kind of Falefa before the deadline and the day before that Nate Pearson, the Chicago Cubs. This is the team. Thanks for doing this, Stanley, how's it going? >> I'm doing well, Ben. Yeah, happy to be here again. You know, get the call out of the bullpen on tree deadline day of that thing. So yeah, no, it's great to be here. Yesterday was fun overall. It's been most of the day here in the building leading up to that deadline at 6 p.m. And it wasn't a little bit dubious about what the Jays might or might not do yesterday specifically after being very active leading into deadline day, but they did ultimately literally ship away every single expiring asset. They held true to their promise of getting rid of all those rental options that were on the roster. And now here we are post deadline. We have at least to some extent an eye to the future. >> Yeah. And there are some guys with the high upside. There's some guys that are close to the major leagues. There's a guy that's in the major league. And Major League Joey Loprofito was activated. >> He was on the roster. >> Was in Baltimore yesterday. The Orioles had to take the air out of the balloon by calling up Jackson Holiday and he'll be in Baltimore. >> That's not fair. >> For the final game of that series today. >> Yadda yadda yadda. So here are the details, eight players out, like we said, all the pending free agents, even the guy that passed through waivers, Kevin Kiermeyer shipped out of town, 14 returning. It's a lot of player movement. And as I also mentioned, two guys that were not pending free agents in Nate Pearson and Isaiah Kinefilefa sent out the door. Who knows what the return is. There's a couple of guys that we have a better idea because they actually have Major League track records. A bunch of them actually. >> Yeah. >> A couple of them coming over from Houston in the Astros trade. One of them, an outfielder from the Seattle Mariners in the Jimmy Garcia trade. I posed this on Twitter yesterday, Daniela, is 14 players, sounds like a lot. And it's so hard not to just like look at the minor league numbers. You're like, my God, just do that at the major leagues, they got a whole new team. All these guys are so good. Because yeah, you're not a prospect unless you produce at the minor league level. But as anybody who's followed baseball to any extent understands, those are not exactly correlated to how you're going to form at the major league level. In fact, I mean, what is the ideal, not the ideal. The ideal outcome is all 14 guys are average to above average major league players. What is a realistic good outcome here? I posed it on Twitter. Is it one of these guys, two of these guys, three of these guys, four plus the consensus I got was that people feel like if three of them are Major League contributors, that's a good outcome. How do you feel about that? >> Yeah, I'm right there. I saw you post that poll on Twitter yesterday or X or however we want to phrase it. And my response was three and generally throughout this process, as the number of transactions started to increase and we saw the overall return in terms of the volume of players reach double digits. I thought, okay, if you can hit on two or three of these guys to where they are now going to be serviceable, competent pieces that are contributing to your team in a meaningful way, occupying some role of consequence, that's a win. And I think the biggest, like there are two big ones for me. One is Jake Bloss because it's hard to find those kinds of players in these trades, particularly when you're dealing with the expiring assets. One of the big questions I had personally going into this entire sell off period for the Blue Jays was, is it possible to effectively execute the pivot when all you're moving is essentially expiring deals? Is that actually plausible? And to their credit, it seems like they've actually got pieces in these deals that are going to factor in in some capacity. So that, by and large, is a win. Classe, I mean, there's a bit like you said Ben, there's a track record at least with some of these guys. He's one of them. Low Perfido, who has been in the big leagues already this year, another guy that has some track records and some pedigree to him. You know, I was surprised to learn this, like Will Wagner is pretty high like on their list in terms of the overall scope of the players they receive. Like all three of those guys, we're going to see all three of them. And to think they acquired all three of those guys in one deal for two months of Yusek Kakuchi is pretty, is pretty interesting and they deserve credit for that. Yeah, they do. I mean, especially considering Yusek Kakuchi has been actively bad for the majority of season. Yes. Like Yusek Kakuchi, not good. Like just, just straight up. But two months, man, we haven't seen a good, like he had a stretch where he had, I think it was from late April through to end of May. It's almost August. It was six straight starts of six plus innings. He looked great. Yeah. Since then, hasn't been good. It's like a five and a half ERA since that point. That's a two month sample size, man. Yeah. The exit velocity stuff, especially against right handed hitters has been, yeah, yeah, it's been awful, frankly, like he strikes people out, which is good, you know, the stuff is amazing. But yeah, I mean, to count on, on Yusek Kakuchi right now, and I guess part of the appeal might be that he's had some success out of the bullpen. And perhaps that's how the Astros use him in a bulk type role when they get to the post season. But yeah, it seems like a high price to pay. Who knows, right? >> Yeah, we don't know. >> But yeah, when you're getting in return for two months of, again, a pitcher who is actively bad, a guy that is a top 100 prospect, like just barely in the top 100 prospects. But Jake Bloss was at the tail end, and a guy with some pretty highly graded pitches, specifically his fastball, despite the, it doesn't have upper velocity, tons of spin on it. And you're getting a guy that was on the Astros Major League roster in Joey Lo Perfido, whose results haven't been tremendous. But some of the underlying stats are better than what he actually produced at the Major League level. Good Will Wagner, a guy who doesn't have a huge amount of power potential. But at the upper levels of the minor leagues for the Astros, plays a position to need for the Blue Jays. I don't know if he's going to be able to play it well. Everything I've read is like the defensive side of the game might be an issue for Will Wagner, but he's got major league lineage as we know the Blue Jays like, who wouldn't like it. Yeah, that is the one move that stands out. The rest of the season is going to be about research and development and understanding who fits into the puzzle for 2025, a season in which the Blue Jays, obviously by everything they've told us and indicated to us, a season in which they're trying to contend. Is that enough time to really, like if Will Wagner comes up and for two months, he looks like a Major League caliber player. Is that enough time to say that, well, there's our opening day third baseman in 2025? Yeah, that's a really interesting question. My answer to that just pure first blush reaction is no. I think two months of sample size isn't enough. I think Spencer Horowitz, for instance, who we've seen for a longer sample here now, and we'll have an additional two months to assert himself in the conversation with the everyday second baseman, that's a different story. But I don't think, with the exception, maybe I would say throw this caveat out there. I do think a guy like Joey Loperfido is slightly different because there's some real pedigree and track record there in terms of how excited people in Houston were and how much hype he was generating leading into this season. He was considered one of the guys that was going to come up, naturally now slide into their lineup and be a force for them or somebody that could contribute on a regular basis as they went and made a push yet again for the postseason, didn't materialize. They use them as trade bait, they ship them away. But if he comes up and has an immediate impact where he has two really strong months, could I see in theory him penciling himself into a more solidified cemented role for 2025? Yes. But in terms of the other guys, yeah, I think I don't know that there's enough runway there. It's like, how do you do that? It doesn't erase or eliminate the other litany of questions we have about what the opening day roster looks like for 2025, regardless of how we feel about what they did over the last three, four days and what they were able to recoup. You can have, I think it's not, it's not a binary process here. You can approach this thing with two minds, you can, you know, two things can be true. One we can be, I think generally most people are pretty happy with what they did and the return that they netted and the fact that they infused 13 new prospects into their system that of course for years has been bereft of any depth, the fact that they addressed that is big. But we can also still be dubious about the idea, the notion that you can now turn around and feel the team that in 2025 is going to be competitive again. There's a lot of work to be done there and that's a big golf to get, to bridge the gap between where we were yesterday and feeling positive about that, compared to feeling good about the major league team in 2025. One thing for sure is that you need more assurances that you're going to get production at the major league level than a couple of months of a guy that's maybe making his first dip of his toe into the major league waters. But yeah, not all these prospects are one ever going to play for the Toronto Blue Jays. Some of these guys might not even make it through the off season because they may be flipped for other. >> You kind of hope so. >> Major league assets, that's part of this, is that Blue Jays, before this, couldn't really consummate any trades for major league ready talent because their minor league system was a brutal and it's certainly better now. So okay, the Kukuchi trade feels like a coup, they did factually trade away all the guys that are pending free agents, which boy, you better do if you're in the position that the Blue Jays are, a non-competitive team in an era of three wild cards, and it's not yet August. So that's good, they did that and they cut a little deeper. Like we said, two guys with varying returns, they could have cut deeper though, guys started yesterday, Chris Bassett, who knows what the return could have been on him. But I mean, you look at some of the prices going for starting pitching, well again, using Kukuchi, not good and pending free agent, netted them a top 100 prospect and three guys that could see the major leagues this season. But he was acting still in a hot seat and he's apologizing. He apologized. I watched the Zoom availability. He apologized to the fans and said, this is not a place we want to be in. I take full responsibility. I feel horrible for the fans. Heard the interview with Tim McCalluff on Sports at Central yesterday. Same thing. Hey, what would you say to the fans that say you shouldn't have been the guy to pull the trigger on all these trades of the deadline? I would say that I'm really sorry, I'm doing my best, we're grinding it out, we're trying to feel the more competitive ball club in 2025. Does what we saw not just yesterday, but in the days preceding the deadline impact his standing within this organization. Does it give him a longer leash when it comes to this offseason and evaluating his tenure as general manager of the Toronto Blue Jays? >> I mean, that's a million dollar question. My interpretation of that entire situation is this. I think regardless of what we think, regardless of what a lot of the fan base thinks, I kind of feel like they're gonna run it back with this guy. Like that's the general sentiment. You keep hearing a little bit over and over again, and not to say that Ross Atkins wouldn't have been capable of executing this deadline effectively because as you alluded to Ben, like it's easier to be in the position of selling off assets and trying to infuse younger talent than nobody's ever heard about before, maybe you hit on a couple guys that have some pedigree and then boom, just like that, your deadline grades out very positively. So it's not like he was in a perilous position here in terms of, okay, it's open season, let's sell off all these expiring assets. The directive and objective was pretty clear going into this deadline given where they were. So it's not like we, I don't wanna, I'm not gonna sit here, like he deserves credit because I think overall they did well, but at the same time, it was pretty clear what they needed to do. That being said, the more you kind of go through the machinations of what the contractual statuses for like Mark Shapiro, where things stand with Ross Atkins and John Schneider and they're both together lined up in the through 2026. Of course, of course, a company of this magnitude can say, yeah, we need to make a change. We don't care. We'll eat the bill. We'll foot the bill. It's no big deal to us. The more the more this goes on, I feel like we're kind of in a position where they're gonna really get one more crack at it. >> Yeah. >> I don't know, it just, that's what really it strikes me as and maybe the external perception is different than the internal perception. I think based on the fact that they were just in the playoffs last year, this is 2024, the very first time that they're gonna have to go in front of whomever it is that they talked to at the highest levels of this company and actually have to explain what went wrong. Like last year, we remember they were in the playoffs. They won 89 games, the year prior they won 90 games, they were in the playoffs. This is the first time where that board, this ownership will probably sit there and say, Mark Ross, explain to us what the heck went wrong. How do we end up in a position where our team finished 15 games under 500 missed the playoffs? We were sellers at the deadline, we were out of it by the time July rolled around. Why were we in that position? And because of that, I think we've raised a lot of concerns and questions over the last two years as fans, as external outside observers. But when it comes to the people internally, I feel like this is really the first pressure point that these guys are going to encounter. So we paid, we gave you a $220 million payroll. What did you produce for us? You what did you produce for us with a $220 million payroll? And they're gonna have to answer for that. But realistically, I kind of think this is only the first time that they're gonna have to offer a more like deep probing explanation than in previous years. >> Yeah, I mean, there is the micro of this season, which is it doesn't feel like a micro when you're living through 160 games where they're gonna lose 90 plus. But yeah, this is the micro when you're considering an almost decade run now of this front office. I mean, you're missing the playoffs, you're out of it before August and again, in an era in which everybody makes the playoffs, including the Diamondback last season with 84 wins and made it all the way to the world. So even the Blue Jays last year with 89 wins who were, man, we thought that team was bad. And they only scored one run and getting swept out of the playoffs by the Minnesota Twins in two games. So there's the micro of this season, which has been an abject, horrifying failure. But like I said, it's been almost a decade run here of Ross Atkins and Mark Shapiro. And not only are you bad, and it doesn't mean that all of your moves have been bad. But I think Shida Beatty hit it with the perfect analogy talking about, hey, you didn't really pay attention to the foundation of your house, God, and you used it a bunch. But it was so good that I'm gonna use it too, and I'm giving them credit. The found it, you weren't going down to the basement because it was icky down there. But like the house started to rot on top. And so you kind of did a full evaluation of what parts of the house are rotted. And you realize the foundation is like it's about to implode on itself that we're a decade into this thing. And not only are you worse and bad and not making the playoffs, but the Blue Jays foundation of minor leaguers of farm system was abysmal that there's just no assets to trade away. There is no backup plan for injured or ill-performing starting pitching. There was just nothing. To me, hey, one deadline where you made the obvious moves and you get credit for making the moves, even if they are obvious, if they're good. And Ross Adkins gets credit if all three of those guys that got back in the use a kikuchi trader like parts of the 2025 Blue Jays and significant parts of it. But these were obvious moves. And if you want to, okay, talk about the two guys that were still under team control for next season. Nate Pearson, I mean, you were talking about you say kikuchi being bad. Nate Pearson is just like, he is bad all the time. And he throws hard. Yes, sir. And that's good. But like, yeah, and his first foray into a cubdom didn't go so well when he gave up a moonshot and then point a guy in the head, that wasn't not ideal. But seemed pretty clear that the Blue Jays are like, let's get out from under this guy at all costs. We're talking about the second worst bullpen in all the baseball, ERA wise, only better than the Colorado Rockies who play on the moon. And you've got Isaiah Kiner-Felefe who outperformed all expectations on the first of a two-year deal. But you have Isaiah Kiner-Felefe at home in Ernie Clemente and Leo Jimenez like, okay, Isaiah Kiner-Felefe, if somebody's going to give you something of consequence for him, you have to pull the trigger on that. So again, you get credit if those pieces that you've received in return for those trades end up impacting you. But so what, you've put yourself, you've put this organization in this situation to begin with. I do agree that because of Mark Shapiro's contractual status and one more year remaining on his deal, and it's so hard to separate him from the baseball side of things because who hasn't loved everything that's gone into the renovation of Rogers Center and to a lesser extent, the player development thing in Florida, which the fans don't get to be a part of. But apparently, big selling feature for free agents, right? >> Enough to have Shoei. >> Just to turn her away. >> Shut up about it. >> Yeah, enough to have Shoei or tour it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it's true. >> Yeah. >> You did show up. >> You got Shoei in the building. That's all good. But yeah, the baseball side of things, man, it is tough to put a rosy glow on the last eight, nine years of this franchise, considering where they were. They went through a teardown. We heard it explicitly from Mark Shapiro in 2016, hey, if we didn't have this institutional knowledge in the fan base showing up at the ballpark for teams that made the playoffs, we know this team's getting older. We probably would have pivoted to the next generation of Blue Jays teams in 2016. Well, they made an American League championship series, and then they got to do their teardown. They did this one. >> They did it. >> I know. >> They did it once. >> Complete teardown to the studs. >> Oh, yeah, they were bad. And the build up was a lot quicker than people anticipated, and especially considering some of the other franchises that have tried teardowns. Look at the Detroit Tigers who are still tearing down. >> Yeah. >> Jack Flaherty out the door yesterday. They held on to Tarek Scuba. But it's been 10 years they haven't been in the playoffs. There's multiple teams that have gone through longer teardowns than the Blue Jays went through. But how many general managers get to tear it down, even into a lesser degree, this is a lesser teardown than he's already done, get to tear it down twice and fire maybe three managers. It just, it does not happen. So I appreciate the hey, I'm sorry from from all seconds. It doesn't change my perception of his tenure in Toronto. >> Yeah, you know what? I think the point you raised right at the end in terms of just the how the unprecedented nature of general managers being handed the opportunity to do this. Not once, twice, let alone multiple times over the course of a tenure with a franchise. It seldom happens in any sport, never mind baseball, in any sport, this rarely occurs. And I think, you know, part, you know, again, would it be different hypothetically if you replaced the key figures in this front office, right? Like let's say yes, we could go boom, it's almost a brand new landscape in that front office. Would their tenor, would their approach have been different in terms of their willingness to move off of guys that had turned beyond 2024? Given the market, as you alluded to Ben, the prices were insanely high. It was a clearly a very robust seller's market. >> If we find out that there was a King's ransom out there for Chris Bassett, who's good? >> Kevin Gossman for that matter too. >> Sure, and I do view those guys a little differently, partly because Gossman has the extra year of team control plus the upside. And I know he hasn't shown it as often this year, but like Kevin Gossman can start Game One at his best. Kevin Gossman's starting Game One of a postseason series for you. >> That's what he's super valuable. >> His second complete game of the season. Chris Bassett, you love him over the course of 162 games, but ask the New York Mets about how much you want him in a crucial moment in either your regular season or in the postseason. But if we find out post fact, and I guess nobody's gonna be honest about this, this is why we need my like the best idea I've ever had. Maybe in the history of doing sports talk radio was that every trade discussion needs to be recorded and put into a time capsule that is unveiled like five to 10 years after the fact that it's like part of the rule of sports and that we get to revisit this. But if somehow it was discovered that the Blue Jays had this incredible trade package available to them for Chris Bassett and didn't execute that because hey, we need starting pitching, we already need to add at least one more starting pitcher for 2025. Now we got to backfill Chris Bassett and they couldn't, they couldn't conceive of that possibility. That's a brutally short-sighted move. Who knows? We didn't hear a lot of a lot of rumblings around Chris Bassett, but again, like just look at the prices paid for starting pitching. And it's hard not to reason that if the Blue Jays in earnest put Chris Bassett on the table, he would have netted them a huge return. >> Totally. It took to the 11th hour for Jack Flaherty to move like now again, I saw there were some reports last night, I think in health wise. >> Yeah, there were some questions about the back, like the Yankees were supposed to be in that. >> Yeah. >> And then they backed out and ended up being the Dodgers. But look, it took until the last 90 minutes prior to the deadline for all the most significant big error name guys that we have been talking about for weeks on end to actually move. And even Greg Carrot crochet doesn't end up moving either at this deadline. Taric school doesn't move at this deadline. So yeah, I mean, certainly it would have been as you put it, would have been a disservice to the franchise if you didn't seriously consider it given the prices that we saw in this market. I think my main overall point as it pertains to go back to the conversation, the subject of having the opportunity, a front office having the opportunity to execute multiple tear downs. I think part of the reason we're seeing the J's tread water in this regard is because of that very point. Like, you're seeing Ross Atkins and we're gonna actually hear from Marshall pyro next week. He's gotten availability, which is gonna be the first time since spring since we've heard from him. >> Yeah. >> But the reason I think that J's have taken this tact of trying to tread lightly between being sellers at this deadline, understanding their position, but also trying to reinforce that there is a path for them to be competitive in 2025 is because the admission of guilt, the admission of failure of saying this did not work, we need to bring it right back down to the studs and yes, maybe Vlad can still factor into that long term because he's only 25. But the other pieces we gotta really consider everything would paint optically a very bad image and they understand that if you make that declaration or you at least intimate that in any way, you're not gonna have an opportunity to fulfill that vision. It's just not gonna happen for you. So what's the easiest thing in terms of self-preservation? Sit there and say, we're gonna do the obvious things. We're gonna trade the guys that are all on expiring deals, but guess what? We're still gonna be here in 2025 and we're gonna be better team for it. And that is the only option that those guys have because Ross knows this. He's a smart man. If you would have stood there a week ago or even yesterday and said, yeah, there's a lot of work to be done here, boy, oh boy, we are not close. Then if you're an ownership group, if you're a fan base, you're sitting there saying, well then you've been here for a decade, time for you to go. And he's in that mode of self-preservation, and the only way he can do it is by pivoting to then execute what has been a soft sell to execute what has been a hard pivot in a way that is being presented as a more soft, malleable pivot so that it doesn't look as bad. >> Yeah, I don't know how any baseball executive without prior attachment to this front office could be parachuted into this situation and say, hey, let's win again in 2025. I don't know how that happens. And that doesn't mean like, trade away, bow and Vlad might mean trading away one. I do think there's a scenario in which, and maybe the pivot is still to come, but yeah, that you sign Vlad up for the next decade and at 25, 26 years old, he lives through a couple years of non-contention, and then on the other side of it, it's not even 30 years old. >> Exactly. >> And still part of the organization, but yeah, it's just as hard to imagine somebody just with fresh eyes looking at this situation and saying, yeah, there's just a couple of tweaks away, competing with the Orioles and the Yankees at the top of the American, and the Red Sox for that matter, who hung very much with the Yankees over the weekend and losing two out of three to the Yankees. Okay, last one on this part, and we'll come back around at seven o'clock to talk about the Blue Jays and look more specifically at the holes that need filling for 2025. Ross Atkins did take a question on Vlad and Bo. That would have been the real headline move of the deadline period end of sentence in Major League Baseball said, yeah, he didn't come anywhere close, which jives with every reporting, every piece of reporting we've heard. Do we believe him? Do we believe in earnest that nobody made a real attempt to go after either of those guys? I mean, specifically Vlad, who looks as close to his 2021 self as I've seen since 2021? >> Yeah. >> And he only had one hit yesterday, but I mean, he's taken 100 mile an hour fastballs, three inches off the inside part of the plate, like he just looks menacing at the plate right now. He is absolutely locked in. Do I believe him? No, but do I believe him as it pertains to Vladi? I think there's more transparency there to be quite honest, Bo is a little bit more murky. I think he's got to say the right things when it comes to Bo, he's asked in that media availability about those two guys. And then in the interview with Tim McCallop that aired last night on Sports Central, Tim asked him more directly about Bo Bechet, and if there is a possibility that the future still entails a team that is led and anchored by Bo and Vlad, not just Vladimir Guerrero Jr., to which of course he had to say, yes, is that still possible? Of course it's still possible, but I do think they are clearly understanding that the future is less certain, a little bit more murky as it relates to Bo. I certainly feel given how Vlad has performed based on how this narrative has seemingly shifted. I would argue that to Tim's call, for sure, you have to do your due diligence and call and say, all right, would you entertain this? How about if we threw player X your way, would that sway your opinion at all? But I do think, by and large, they probably said, no, this is not something we're doing. Bo, different, because, I mean, the conversation I think would have been drastically different if he was healthy, or if he had a semi-normal, bow-ish season. But the fact that we're in this position where he's had a horrific season, he's dealt with a bevy of injuries, I would not be surprised if the conversations were minimal. That being said, asked about it yesterday, it's kind of a difficult position, because what's he supposed to say in that spot? He's got to make sure that he's got to put Bo in a position or put the fan base at he's when it comes to Bo's situation and say, no, no, we still believe in the player. He's going to come back. He's going to look fine. He doesn't preclude them from trading him in the off season, but also we're okay with the idea of him being a part of our team, at least to start 2025. When we all know deep down, there is almost no chance this guy is signing an extension with this franchise, and let alone before he ever hits free agency next off season. >> Yeah, if what Jim Bowden claims is true, that the value that's viewed in Boba Shedd is not dissimilar to when he was good and healthy. Like the fact that he was bad and hurt this season, apparently, according to the reporting and the specific reporting I'm referring to is former Major League Executive Jim Bowden of the athletic claims. Yeah, perception around baseball is still that Boba Shedd is that guy that led the American League and hits two consecutive years would have been three straight if he didn't get hurt at the end of that season. It's still viewed that way. If in fact, that was the case, and I mean, the Dodgers specifically, if they were presenting the normal Boba Shedd trade package at the deadline, that is the one scenario where again, I'd love to be able to dig up the time capsule and see what those conversations were. I mean, they went out and got Ahmed Rosario, like would they have preferred to have Boba Shedd? How bad? >> Yeah. >> And again, it doesn't preclude the Blue Jays and Ross Atkins from trading Boba Shedd this off season, but you got to figure that the trade package considering you would get two post seasons before he hits free agency would have been bigger at this deadline than it would be in the off season. But I guess we'll never know. The Vlad thing, it just, it feels like for multiple different reasons, one is that he seems like he'd be open to signing an extension in Toronto. He looks like the full best version of himself right now. The age part of it, the way he can fit multiple timelines, yeah, you would have really had to blow them away with something unforeseen, like franchise changing. >> Definitely. >> Like Jackson Holiday Plus Plus, like, yeah, like multiple Jackson holidays, right? >> Literally. >> But yeah, the bow one, I do wonder how close they came on that. That one I feel like that they would have listened a little harder than anything on Vlad. >> For sure. And also, the Dodgers are an interesting case because it felt like yesterday, given where, you know, I think the Kakuchi traits sort of broke the mark in a lot of ways, people are like, my goodness, we can't afford to give up three real prospects for expiring assets or guys that have minimal control or are going to factor in as like, you know, all the respect like Mark Leiter Jr., for example, but he's a guy that's going to pitch in medium-ish leverage for the Yankees. He's not going to be somebody coming out of your bullpen in the ninth inning, can if your bullpen situation is that dire, but probably not. And the Dodgers, I felt like, you know, I look at them. San Diego was very aggressive, for example. The Dodgers, though, for a team that clearly is desperate to cash in on this window to go and get a World Series, they're hungry for it, and there's an appetite there. They were very half-measured-ish in how they went about it. Like Yankees, too. I mean, once Soto's sure, he's going to sign an extension, but maybe not. You don't know that. Like, you don't know that. And a lot of teams I felt, in the end, were very skittish and understanding, boy oh boy, we would prefer to take these half-measures, be half-pregnant, so to speak, as opposed to going full-out and making a dumb trade that we're going to regret in three, four years when we say, gosh darn it, why did we trade these two top 25 prospects in our system that are now both everyday major leaguers? And so it felt like they were really walking that line. When I looked at the Dodgers, and this is part of the reason why everybody connected the Js and the Dodgers, both in the Kakuchi situation, and even by extension, Boba Shedd, part of it is because look at the system, right? Like the Js are bereft of pitching in particular. The Dodgers have a lot of these Quad-A guys that are all sitting there. And all just, they don't have a pathway to actually break into the major league starting rotation for the LA Dodgers. Why? Because they spend tons of money every year and keep burying them, and you're thinking huh, so what if they would have done something that involved a Gavin Stone, an Emma Chihan, a Dustin May, how about that, plus a couple other prospects in the system, would that have potentially moved the needle enough for the Js? But that's where that conversation is interesting. Clearly, they traded for an injured Tommy Edmund, because they are so desperate to try and find an answer for either second base or shortstop, whichever of those two positions ends up getting sorted. They are so desperate, it's almost impossible that they did not make a serious call to say, what do you want for Boba Shedd? >> Yeah. Well, and yeah, maybe the pathway becomes clearer this offseason when Boba Shedd's healthy, and all those pitches that you mentioned are healthy. They're all injured for the Dodgers, that's going to be one of the major storylines around this Blue Jays team this offseason. All right, we'll get back into the Blue Jays after seven o'clock. But when we come back, Canada had a chance for bronze medal already today, Paris just fell off the podium in 10 meter synchro diving, but the Canadian men's basketball team pulling away from Australia yesterday, they're 2 and 0, and we're going to hear what the decision is on the appeal of the Canadian women's soccer team's six-point deduction before their must-win game against Columbia. That and more next as the fan morning show continues, Ben Ennis, Danielle A. Franceski, Sportsnet 590, the fan. >> Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL, the JD Bunk is podcast, subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. >> Good morning, Joe, Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Ennis, Danielle A. Franceski, filling in for Brent Gunning. We had a chance for some early morning hardware from the Olympics in Paris, France. And third headed into the final dive of the 10 meter synchro event, the blut, this is quite frankly. And the Brits took the bronze medal. I mean, it's not the first time anybody's had this take, but I think it's the correct one. Third, fourth, there's no difference. It's arbitrary. >> You think so, eh? >> Yeah, I mean, it's arbitrary that we've decided to give medals to the top three instead of the top four, instead of the top two, like top five, like who cares? I mean, yes, obviously, the Olympics have made it the most important thing to finish top three so that you have something to show for your performance. But ultimately, honestly, not to go full Ricky Bobby here, but if he ain't first, you last, like, what are we talking about? Bronze medals. >> Oh, yeah. >> Why you disagree? Like you think there's a reason why we reward the third place finisher and not the fourth, like it's the same. Like, what are we talking about? >> I do silver. >> Silver. I even understand, especially in events in which there is a final, right? Like softer, you get to a final gold medal match, we won silver in rugby, women's rugby sevens. >> Yeah, yeah. >> It was incredible. >> Great run by that. >> Incredible run. That deserves a silver medal because you were in the gold medal match. Okay, bronze, miss me with bronze. >> Okay. I think it's slightly different from my standpoint when it comes to individual competitions and team-related competitions. So how about I throw this question back at you? Let's use, and we'll specifically isolate team competitions for this one. Would you rather been lose a game to win silver or win a game to capture bronze? >> I mean, yeah, finishing your tournament with a win is always good, but I mean, I'd rather have a silver medal. I'd rather not, that's the thing, you're making my point because I think you would feel better in that scenario winning bronze. >> Correct, you would. >> And I think only the silver medalist should be rewarded for their accomplishment, making it to the final game. The fact that the bronze medalist and candidate benefited from this at the FIBA World Cup in beating the Americans for the bronze medal. Again, you can miss me with that. Like, if you make it to the final, sure, that's great individually. It's a little different deal. But again, like the difference between third and fourth, you finish up the track from winning the whole damn thing. Like, I know we've decided to give out medals for the top three finishers, but for me, it sucks. Like, yeah, you're whatever, a couple of points away from being able to come home from these Olympics with something tangible, and instead you got nothing because what, you finished the fourth instead of third, where I just, I don't see a discernible real difference. >> So I point to golf at the Olympics, there will be medals, obviously. But golf in general, for example, all we care about is who wins. We don't care about who's the runner up, who's a top five finisher. There are fun stats to reference on occasion to indicate as a sign of consistency for certain guys, great. All we care about is how many events did you win? How many majors did you win? What does your season look like on balance, and how many times were you the last man standing or the last woman standing where you're celebrating after 70 tools? That's all we care about. Tennis, very similar. We don't give a damn who's in the final. How many did you win? That's all we care about. I look at Formula One, and I'm like, do we really need a podium? Do we need all three? Because does it matter who finishes second and third, and who's up there on a podium, or do we only care? Can we have one, two, get finishing in the points? Yeah, again, those are ones where I'm with you, I say it's irrelevant. Now, I had this conversation, ironically, it's funny you mentioned this, this conversation came up yesterday, and that's why I posed a question regarding the silver versus bronze debate, because they're in the moment, there is an actual ability to celebrate when you win an event, win a game to capture bronze, but you lose a game to win silver. It doesn't have the same effect. Now, in hindsight, five years down the road, you're going to look back and you're probably going to be able to appreciate the silver more than the bronze, but there isn't going to be a great memory associated with how you captured that metal. There is it. Part of the reason, and I use the Canada basketball thing as an example, last year they went bronze at the World Cup. If they were in the final and they lost to Germany, and they won one silver, I think our perception of that, we would have said it's a great accomplishment. It's awesome that they made it there. It's wonderful. But on the flip side, we would also say, but they lost to Dennis Schroeder and Germany. Guess what? >> Well, that's part of it. >> But what did they beat? >> They beat the Americans. That's why it's not linear, it's not binary, it is all dependent on the situation that you're in. I can assure you that those who ended up finishing ahead of the Canadians of the diving. >> I think it was the British. >> The Brits are going to feel great. You want to know why? They delivered and executed their final dive better than the Canadians, and they finished their start to win a medal. That moment is going to resonate with them, and those two ladies that won that medal are going to sit there, their coaches are going to say, man, when the chips were down and we really needed to deliver something, we did. We delivered in the biggest spot. That's why we trained for four years to be able to be on the podium to win a medal. It matters and it counts for something, and in the grand scheme of things, yeah, we came up with this thing. I don't know when? We decided it's three medals, but guess what? It's part for the course. It's part of it. >> Yeah. Yeah, as it didn't just happen yesterday. I do need to know why we reward third, not fourth, not fifth, not the top ten, but I have different medals for everybody in the top ten, and I'm going to counter my own argument, thusly, by talking about the Canadian men's basketball program after that impressive victory over Australia, despite Chae Gil just Alexander being limited in the first half because of foul trouble. I'm now at the point, so the Australians, the boomers, they're the defending bronze medalists. France won silver, of course, the Americans won gold at the 2020 would ended up being the 2021 Olympic Games in Tokyo. I'm now at the point here, and you would be excused if you were already at this point, but now having seen it in practice, where anything short of a silver medal is a disappointment for this Canadian team. They are that good, and they are that talented, that anything short of, what, what, a medal for sure, but they're at least the second best team in this tournament. And I know we haven't seen them against Wembley and France yet. We saw them against Giannis and Greece, who made that game closer than it should have been. Australia is legit. >> They're very good. I mean, they didn't wax the floor of them, but both teams played well, can it just better? And anything short of a silver medal, like it's obviously degrees, right? We're talking about a return to the Olympics for first time in over a couple of decades. But there's going to be a level of disappointment if they're not in a gold medal game in these Olympic games for me. >> I just want to see self, I selfishly I want to see them play the Americans. That's all I care about, whether it's a semi-final or the final idea, the final would be great. And I just want to see them play them. Because I think that's what the basketball world deserves. That is what I think most people will be extremely excited about is the prospect of seeing this version of Canada, which as you alluded to, and rightly, they are on paper and in practice, the second best team in this tournament. They absolutely are. Now, does that always equate to you winning, playing in the final, finishing with silver or winning the bronze, not necessarily, but 100% they should hold themselves to that standard. Because talent wise, that's where they belong, like they belong in that position. There's no doubt about it. And selfishly, I want to see them in this environment have the opportunity to play the Americans. Because of any of the teams that, not just from a talent standpoint, but stylistically, if there's any team that actually has a chance to give them a run, this United States team, it is 100% Canada, it is without a shadow of a doubt, Canada, because they understand that the United States wants to play more of that North American style, they would embrace the NBA game. Well, guess what? In an NBA style of game, we have one of the best players on the floor. It's, and he ain't number 10, I can assure you that much, he ain't even number five. When we go through both sides of the 10 players that are on the court, he's pretty high on that list. And as such, that gives them an opportunity. As we saw last year in the bronze medal game, different team, I get it with the Americans. Also, Canada's a little bit deeper, just so you know, that said, the reason I was so bullish that they were going to beat the Americans last year is part of the reason why I'm not saying they can beat them this time around, but they can hang is because they have one of the top five players on the court at any given moment in SGA. And that is, that's a deal breaker here. That's a deal breaker. I think, overall, it is fair to maybe hold them, hold them to an expectation of saying at bare minimum, you got to win a medal. You got to win a medal. Validate what you've done, because even as somebody that's been a long time supporter of that program and has been following this journey and it feels so surreal to see them play Olympic basketball, I got to say, to validate all of that, you got to win a medal. Do the thing, win the medal. And I'll be satisfied. I'm not like you where I say, oh, it's got to be the silver. They got to be in the middle game. If they're playing the Americans in the semi final, like the Americans, it's a different deal. Just play the Americans. That's what I want. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to be disappointed if Canada wins bronze because they they played the Americans in the semi final that would that would be a tough one is Americans didn't play a guy that finished second in finals MVP voting a second in their first game in Jason Tatum. The tires, the Halliburton play play and they place the older rematch against South Sudan today. Yeah, I love it. The clock can't wait for that. So yeah, losing the Americans that see, okay, it would be cool to see them hang. But yeah, you that that's a separate conversation. Everybody else though, Canada should be bad. The second best team. Yeah, they are. Before we take a break here, mentioned it before the break that the Canadian women's soccer team wrapping up their group play today against Columbia. Now as it stands right now, even with the six point deduction, which is insane. But they are guaranteed entry into the knockout stage into the quarterfinals with a victory against Columbia today. This is a Colombian team that's ranked 22nd in the world, Canada number eight. They played twice in their country's history, Canada won both times. They win against Columbia this afternoon, Canada's through despite being docked six points. Now they might not in fact be docked six points because there is an appeal of that punishment handed down for the drone scandal. And apparently the result of that appeal is going to come down today. Does it like, is it possible? Do you think? I mean, knowing nothing about the process, this is just like a straight up guess. If you were the the the arbitrator making a decision on this appeal, I mean, does Canada have a leg to stand on? Yes, they do because the players based on everything we've heard are separate from this entire scandal. Like part of the reason this has been today, even let's say in theory, either a ruling isn't reached or the ruling comes out and they say we're not changing our our punishment. The reason this has captivated so many people in this country is because you can at least wrap your arms around the players like you can you can buy into the players being sympathy pathetic figures in all of this. The fact that there's a notion and a belief inherently that generally speaking, they don't have really anything to do with this. And it's not just the players that are currently on this team that have overtly said it, but players that have previously played for the program saying we had no prior knowledge. We were not aware of any of this stuff and coming to the aid of these current Olympians. So as a result, just based on that alone, yeah, for the team itself, for the athletes who are representing Canada in this event, they absolutely have a like to stand on in terms of trying to justify why they directly should not be punished as a program as a all the all the people who are responsible. >> And they're not even dealing the suspension of bed priests, but a couple of assistants. >> No, why would you? >> No, I mean, that's a good reason. I would add this. While it may have been happening for other games, they're only being punished for the drone spying on New Zealand. It's one match. I mean, so take away the points from that game if you want, I suppose. >> Yeah, sure, yeah. >> There was no factual evidence that they spied against France, beat them. Why can't we have the three points from that match? Doesn't matter. Honestly, if Canada wins today and maybe the decision comes down before the Columbia game, but say it didn't and we had a choice to accept or not accept this ruling. Honestly, I'd rather eat the ruling if they beat Columbia and said, hey man, you docked the six points. We got through the group stage anyways, screw you and now it's just a single elimination as they advanced through this tournament. I mean, what better story would that be than this Canadian program under such duress getting through the group stage and having a chance to defend their gold medal from three years ago? >> Yeah, well said. I couldn't agree more. And the last thing I did want to add on the Canadian soccer team, you got to remember too with this team especially, it's the first major international tournament without Christine Sinclair in the fold. The expectations coming in before this entire scandal erupted. There were no expectations. Like this team, people were looking at this Canadian, this version of the Canadian women's soccer team and saying, yeah, they're just, they're not that good. Like they're not as good as they were. And I know there's history and pedigree there. And people were saying, nope, they're going to have it tough to just make it out of the group, if anything. And yet here we are with their backs against the wall, now with a win today would be three and oh, through the group, and somehow from an narrative standpoint, it would be a much better story, I completely agree. And somehow they would find a way to push their themselves back into a position where their Olympic ring continues in a knockout stage. All of that on the back of never mind a scandal, but also everybody discounting what they were capable of coming into this event. >> Yeah, I can't wait to watch them. Three o'clock this afternoon as they wrap up group play in France. All right, when we come back, get back into the Blue Jays, as is the team, trade deadline in or review mirror, the Blue Jays are not making a playoffs, barring something very unforeseen. Is it a blessing the Blue Jays have been this bad that they were forced into selling that and more next, as the fan morning show continues, Ben Aniston, Yellie, Franceski, sport set
